BRISTOL - 4 [Archive] - Page 2

Marco491

6th Nov 2007, 09:01

Hoo Bloomin Ray.

At last, an alternative to the 7-hour LHR+car route that has been driving me stir crazy this past year.

As Devon-Guy says, still no proper airport serving the southwest, but I'll take my two-hour drive south from the westcountry any day over the shambles that is getting in and out of Heathrow and my random attempts to fly-drive via SOU (never again) and BHX. I cursed Flybe roundly only this Sunday afternoon as I drove past Brent Knoll with another couple of hours to go until I joined the queues at Heathrow. Just this morning I was grasping at straws and looking at WOW connections via MAN, DUB and Cork, so this is great news.

Am very pleased it is LH, as I can pick up a few miles too. Went with Eurowings from FRA to Marseilles recently for the RWC and they blow Flybe out of the water. Still have to deal with the bussing at FRA and the double security at T1 (which has been terrible recently, by the way, actually missed my flight last month, and if you're used to BA to T2 you're in for a shock), but small mercies, small mercies...

:):):)

Bristol_Traveller

6th Nov 2007, 12:35

Just got an e-mail (slightly mis-addressed - would there be a passenger Ka*****on in the house?) from LH Ticketing saying that they can't e-ticket me on FRA-BRS, so they'll pop the tickets in the post.

So I guess they weren't 100% ready yet....

birdscarer

7th Nov 2007, 10:26

Ryanair launch thier base at BRS today. It is the start of a busy winter with an extra million passengers forecast for the year. I would image that now we have the two big boys of loco that will be it on budget airlines for the time being. Can't deny it will be a nice change to see something other than orange planes arriving to night stop.

GayFriendly

7th Nov 2007, 13:29

Revel in your glory and give praise to the fact that you actually have an airport and management that want and encourage expansion. Up here at BHX we seem to be losing rather than gaining a million pax and don't even get me started on airlines and routes that we DON'T have!!! Good luck with FR:)

a bristolian

7th Nov 2007, 13:58

Gay Friendly

Thank you for your kind words of support for our 'little' airport.

The place is very busy today with the 2 new FR units plus the usual 12 EZY 's in and out all day.

Interesting thought but this Winter ( not Summer as BHX does very well during the peak ) BRS could be nearly as busy as BHX in terms of pax numbers on a daily basis!

birdscarer

7th Nov 2007, 22:40

I was suprised to find that. BHX handles 10 million pax. We will be handling 7 Million. They have 2 terminals, we have one and further more they have alot more 'International' traffic. Quite impressive for BRS when you think about it!
I know 3 million pax is alot in comparison (CWL wouldn't see it like that-they think 2 and 7 million are within a whisker!), but we are doing alright considering I view us as more of a regional than BHX. Goood work guys!

OltonPete

7th Nov 2007, 23:20

birdscarer

Thanks for the boost!

Unfortunately BHX is at about 9.1 now with a high of just over 9.4.

Pax have been up for the last few months and should be again for the
winter 07/08. Summer 2008 is looking bleak with the change from
a TOM 762 to 757 and possibly one aircraft less from the MYT/TCX merger. However Baby and Flybe have yet to publish full schedules
but unless some rabbits are pulled out the hat it looks like another
flat year.

Congrats to Bristol though but out of interest what was last years
accounts like?

BHX to 31/3/07 had a 2% fall in turnover and operating profit down 36% to about 12.6 million, which after tax was 7.4 million I believe.

Pete

birdscarer

8th Nov 2007, 08:22

Hey OP. Sure BHX will get better again-its in a great location. As for profits I am probably not the man to discuss it as I am unaware. Someone here will probably have a stab at the figures though.
BS

BRS_flyer

8th Nov 2007, 16:11

What with LH and SK arriving, there might even be some *A automatic check-in machines appearing in the terminal.

Maybe when LH start. For the minute though we do have AF/KL self check in kiosks going in in front of check ins 29-32 today.

birdscarer

9th Nov 2007, 13:22

Purely speculation on my account but I wonder if BRS could be one of the airports selected for BA's Project Lauren? Sounds interesting. I wouldn't put it past BA to come back here in yet another form!
["sings to self"]You put your left foot in, your left foot out......[/sings to self]

Wee Weasley Welshman

9th Nov 2007, 13:32

I very much doubt it.

BA seeks to mitigate Open Skies by offering its product out of MAJOR European capitals. Hence they might put a few 757's into Paris, Frankfurt, Madrid etc.

Sadly Lulsgate (for all its charms) doesn't quite fit the business plan. Especially as its just an M4 dash away from Fortress Thiefrow..

Next rumour please!

WWW

birdscarer

9th Nov 2007, 13:42

Your probably right there - I have read a bit more about it now. :(

airhumberside

15th Nov 2007, 09:55

YHM with GSM now on sale weekly for next summer, via Dublin

OltonPete

15th Nov 2007, 18:11

CAA Provisional stats show 9398 pax!

That is almost 152 a flight & 87% load factor.

I can't remember seeing it above 9000 too often especially outside the
main summer months.

Pete

MerchantVenturer

15th Nov 2007, 19:30

Hello Pete,

2007 has been a much better year for loads on BRS-EWR.

April saw 9,233, September 9,432 and October 9,398. Furthermore, the May to August period saw monthly loads between 8,600 and 8,900. 12% more pax have been carried in the first ten months of 2007 compared to 2006.

Bristol struggled for a while to get Americans to use the service, but the airport announced that in August over 50% of that month’s pax were US based.

Back in January I came across an article in the Houston Chronicle concerning CO’s strategy of using secondary European airports, especially to the UK because they were then barred from LHR, and the Bristol route formed the basis of much of what was written. The author asserted that landing fees at BRS had been suspended for the first three years of the operation as part of the deal to get CO on board.

If that is so, the three years will be up next May and, with CO now gaining access to LHR, the BRS management might have some interesting commercial decisions to make to try to keep their EWR route.

The CAA provisional October stats show a miniscule gain of 0.2% in pax handled at BRS compared to October 2006, with the rolling 12-month figure up 2.3% to 5.82 million.

However, air traffic movements were down nearly 16% on the previous October, mainly due to BACon’s disappearance. With FR’s base now operating November ought to see a bigger percentage rise in the monthly pax figures.

Re airhumberside's note about the Globespan service to Toronto Hamilton, I see from the booking engine that the service operates via Dublin in both directions.

Always good to have a new transatlantic service but it will be interesting to see how well the carrier's reputation, a stop both ways, a narrow-bodied aircraft and a Canadian airport probably not that well known amongst the general travelling West Country public goes down with potential punters.

Perhaps the carrier is hedging its bets by doubling up with DUB although I assume that for technical reasons it may not have been able to fly non-stop from BRS to YHM with a full payload anyway.

Naturally, I hope the venture will prove successful.

Tom the Tenor

15th Nov 2007, 19:36

Great update and commentary as ever, MV.

Greetings from Cork!

birdscarer

15th Nov 2007, 19:42

I see its a poached service from EXT too. Wish it was Transat instead though! :*

nomorethanbablue

15th Nov 2007, 20:20

MV - Continental has announced LHR services from 2008 http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/prnewswire/LATH105B15112007-1.htm
Won't this mean creaming off passengers from LGW, rather than BRS, even though CO will serve EWR and IAH from both London airports?
BABlue

danielhobbs

15th Nov 2007, 20:29

Interesting to see that FlyGlobespan are advertising the BRS - YHM route, as Bristol to Toronto.

I guess theyre pulling a Ryanair trick ;)

Confirmed Must Ride

16th Nov 2007, 09:16

LGW will become a similar regional airport for CO. The only widebody going in is a 767-400 from IAH. All other EWR and CLE flights are going to be operated by 757.

OltonPete

16th Nov 2007, 22:28

MV

Interesting information but I assume that in the short-term there
is nothing to worry about especially if the figures start to hit the
9000 mark consistently and sufficient full fare business pax are
using the service. I assume for commercial reasons that kind
of information is not known? Although on another forum I did see
the BHX service losses posted when it was briefly double daily a
few years ago.

On an unrelated matter, with EK's success in the UK how does Bristol's
runway fit in with say a 332 or even a 350 service in the future?

I trust that there would be payload restrictions such as cargo?
I know this has been discussed to death before but is there any
recent talk of EK from the South West or Wales?

Having used EK from BHX I would not say they are
"the be all and end all" of an airlines but certainly one that
Bristol & Cardiff would want to woo at some point?

Pete

MerchantVenturer

17th Nov 2007, 13:15

Hello Pete,

You're right about commercial confidentiality and of course this is entirely understandable and right. There were rumours in the early days of the route that the business/first held up well when economy was sometimes disappointing.

I occasionally look at the seat selector, not a definitive tool I know, and the business/first seats invariably seem well filled. My son has used the route several times in the front cabin and says it is usually well patronised, but whether by full-fare pax is not known of course.

As for A330s etc at BRS, there are other posters on here whose work would make them far more competent to answer this than me.

I am aware that the parallel taxiway cannot take anything as wide as a 330 because of wing overhang across the fence of the adjoining public road and they have to backtrack the main runway. The last 330 I can remember was an Aer Lingus in 2006 with a rugby charter.

The BRS master plan says long haul scheduled routes would have limited demand from the airport (because of the proximity of LHR) and cites only four destinations it thinks would be viable, one being Dubai. It forecasts that it will carry 120,000 pax per annum on this route by 2015.

It has to find a carrier first though and the master plan also says that the only aircraft that could operate long haul off the present runway are Boeing 757-200, 767-300, 737-700ER, and 787, and Airbus 319, 330-200 and 350.

It adds the rider that some of these aircraft and/or routes would be payload restricted.

BRS is pinning its current hopes on the B 787 which could operate all of the airport's identified l/h scheduled routes without load penalty according to information Boeing have given the airport.

There are rumours from time to time about EK at CWL and BRS and one would assume CWL would be more likely because it can accommodate a 330 more easilyand I guess fly to Dubai with a full payload.

My daughter is currently flying to Melbourne from Manchester with Emirates. They had a two-hour delay at MAN (she said it would be a 777) last night but were looked after very well with a meal voucher, even for so short a delay.

However, I notice her onward aircraft from DXB (a 340, I think) is currently showing a 12-hour delay which is a bit of a pain. I shall be very interested to learn how Emirates handled that.

crackling jet

17th Nov 2007, 17:02

M.V.

The last time the A330 came to Brs, it landed on R/W 27 and taxied off at the end and followed the taxiway back to the eastern apron and did not have to backtrack on 27

Wee Weasley Welshman

17th Nov 2007, 18:07

Manufacturers brochure performance is nearly always optimistic. I'd be suprised if 787 operations INTO and out of BRS ever prove commercially viable.

WWW

birdscarer

18th Nov 2007, 07:58

I am interested as to why you make that assumption? If the B767 and COB757 can operate, I dont see why the B787 couldn't? BRS would need a few alterations to accomodate but these would be minimal. The demand will certainly be there!

MUFC_fan

18th Nov 2007, 09:34

Well BLK bosses were saying they could get 787 to NYC on their current runway with little alterations to stands, taxi-ways etc. so I think that BRS will manage!;)

danielhobbs

18th Nov 2007, 17:30

In regards to the Emirates posts.

I recently met a member of senior staff at the airport regarding a project i am working on, and i asked him about the possibility of Emirates at Bristol, and i was told that it was pretty much off of the table. And wont be looked at for some time yet.

Quite interesting as i thought it could be a good route, even if flown once a week.

MUFC_fan

18th Nov 2007, 17:47

Cannot see EK only wanting to do a once weekly service, it would need to be at least 4 times weekly as most passengers are connecting and once a weekly wouldn't really increase revenue like other routes would.

With only a 6,598ft runway, can the airport support a fully laden A330 with cargo etc for the 7h 30m flight?

Would CWF be better for the airline?

Can see the region getting a route soon to the region and EK seems most likely. These airports are designed perfectly for the 787 (but don't tell EK that - GO A350!;)) HEY! What about if GLO has a runway extension...what?! It works for M2!;)

CentreFix25

18th Nov 2007, 18:20

I think BRS would have have had EK by now, and probably daily, if it wasn't for runway constraints.

hugotheforth

22nd Nov 2007, 14:45

Great radio coverage of Bristol International on 'five live' this morning, promoting the scheduled services of Continental, Air France, KLM, Lufthansa and SAS. Interviewer stated that its pleasing to see a regional airport punching above its weight and the airport's development director highlighted the reducing need to fly from Heathrow for business traffic as a result of the dramatic growth in scheduled services from Bristol over the last few years.:ok:

ek_a340

28th Nov 2007, 12:38

hi guys, im travelling to swindon for a job interview soon, and want to fly into bristol. can anyone advise me of how/how easy it is to get from bristol international to swindon by public transport?

thanks

a bristolian

28th Nov 2007, 13:49

Hi

Easy.

2 options using Flyer ( Airport operated ) coach service to Bristol Temple Meads then First Great Western train direct to Swindon.

1) Buy tickets on line at thetrainline.com booking through trip from airport to
Swindon. Tickets will need to be sent to your home address . The tickets can then be presented to the coach driver and at the train station. Peak frequency is every 15 minutes from outside arrivals - journey time min 20 - max 30 unless there is a crash on the road etc. Train is every 30 mins to Swindon from BTM and takes approx 40-50 minutes.

2) Just turn up at airport and buy ticket for the coach journey and then another ticket from the train station. Then same as above .

If you are very lucky you could do it an hour !

Best of luck with the job.

ek_a340

28th Nov 2007, 18:11

brilliant thanks for your help!

iwak

29th Nov 2007, 00:26

Hi

Anybody any news on what the loads are like on knock and derry routes. fares seem to be quite low!

cuthere

29th Nov 2007, 07:11

Flown the Bristol to Derry twice and it was full the first trip and about 2/3-3/4 full the second. Also, tried booking Bristol to Derry on 27th Dec and it's sold out. No idea about Knock.

Goldilocks95

29th Nov 2007, 10:38

derry yesterday only had about 30 on it! i dont know about the knock.....will keep an ear open.

cuthere

29th Nov 2007, 10:41

That's hardly unusual for the first few months of a new route. When RYR started out of EMA and LIV to LDY loads were pretty dire at first, but they have all picked up to over 100 on average now. Bristol will probably be the same.

BRS_flyer

29th Nov 2007, 13:53

Loads are variable with FR at the moment. Have been as few as 20 on LDY but they are tending to be between the 60-90 mark on the daily flights (LDY and BGY) and 100-120 on the less frequent flights. DUB and SNN are still way ahead in consistant full loads than the others but there are 186 on tomorrows BUD (picking up the weekend break and stag party trafic).

EZY MXP is also frequently experiencing lower than usual loads (around 60-80 on some flights) but that will probably pick up when ski season starts

RVR27/09

1st Dec 2007, 19:15

It looks like the new pax walkway project is about to start, the surveying is done, rumour has it that the ASU building will have to go to make way for it, ASU to be relocated to the Fire Section again, thanks for all the hard work chaps!:D

yeo valley

5th Dec 2007, 20:19

all quiet on bristol thread. Is it shut for xmas or till next summer.??

airvanman

6th Dec 2007, 06:46

BRS is still open!

Aircraft not skidding off the runway in this wet and windy weather!

The (Terminal 2) circus tent makes me laugh every time I walk past it. I see it is held down well with covered concrete blocks.

I do feel sorry for the architect that designed the terminal as it is really turning into a cattle shed. I have not seen the plans for the new apron walkway, but it sounds like it will be a monstrosity.

Ah well that’s progress down ‘ere at Lulsgate Bottom International

...Any Indian flights in the pipeline? Must be a market ? Remember the old PAT Goa flights via a sandpit :ok:

MerchantVenturer

6th Dec 2007, 18:28

easyJet booking engine now showing Olbia (Tues, Thurs and Sat), Split (Wed and Sat) and Biarritz (Mon, Wed, Fri and Sun) for the main summer 2008 season.

A brief look at the rest of the timetable shows it broadly the same as summer 2007, as far as I can see, except Rijeka seems to have been chopped.

iwak

6th Dec 2007, 21:16

Thanks for the info on derry loads , anyone got any info on knock loads!

WATABENCH

7th Dec 2007, 08:49

Split's a nice route, wish it was Dubrovnik though....:rolleyes:

2J&D

7th Dec 2007, 16:04

Does anyone know whether the SPU route on EZY is replacing the Reijka flight?

Used it a few times visiting family in Istria and although Pula would be ideal at least it is/was better than nothing!

Would have through Pula might have been mentioned seen as though Thomson have cancelled the Tues charter...and SPU is covered with the Holiday Options charter. Do with think the fact that EXT has a Dubrovnik flight with BE, is one of the reasons Easy went to Split instead???

Nice to see Croatia back on the map! :)

BRS_flyer

7th Dec 2007, 19:56

anyone got any info on knock loads!

There were 100 on todays but I have seen it load with less than 50 on several occasions.

Anyone working at BRS feeling a bit perplexed by Managair 3. I have just spent all day feeling a bit lost and even the simplest jobs are now a bit of an effort :uhoh:

MerchantVenturer

7th Dec 2007, 20:20

Does anyone know whether the SPU route on EZY is replacing the Reijka flight?

easyJet only served RJK from BRS and LTN and it seems there is no LTN service for summer 08 in the booking engine either.

The full summer charter programme is not shown on the BRS website yet so I don’t know whether anyone else will take on the Pula route next summer. If
RJK is really gone there certainly seems a gap in that part of the peninsula.

Olbia is a welcome addition because the weekly summer charter flight to Sardinia did not operate in summer 07.

It seems that France might join Poland to become something of a battleground between easyJet and Ryanair with the former announcing Biarritz soon after FR announced 3 new French routes of its own for next summer.

Next summer I make it easyJet will be serving Paris CDG (12 x weekly), Biarritz (4 weekly), Bordeaux (7 weekly), La Rochelle (3 weekly), Nice (10 weekly), Marseille (3 weekly) and Toulouse (7 weekly), and FR will fly to Bergerac, Beziers, Pau and Dinard (all 3 x weekly).

If AF continues its 18 x weekly to CDG, plus the possible return of Aer Arann to Nantes (2 x weekly in summer 07), there will be a veritable procession of aircraft plying to and from Gallic airports.

The current near direct head-to-head (Milan) might seem a surprise choice.

When easyJet replaced BACon on the MXP in April this year, the route did not immediately catch on in terms of loads in the way many of that airline’s new routes from BRS have done in the past.

The best month so far has been August (7,200 pax ) with a 75% load factor on the 156-seat A319. Most months have been in the range 6,000-6,500 so it will be intriguing to see how FR’s BGY route affects this.

At present both airlines’ summer 08 timetables indicate the maintenance of a daily schedule on the two routes. This is a lot of seats to fill (a total of 690 daily) when one considers that BACon carried only around 23,000 pax on its 100 daily MXP seats in its last full calendar year on the route (2006).

anyone got any info on knock loads!

The first batch of CAA figures for November are due next Friday.

When FR started its daily BRS-SNN at the end of October 2005 average monthly loads for the winter months that followed were about 100-110, but 95,000 pax were carried in the whole of 2006 and 2007 is already 5-6% ahead of this figure so around 100,000 ought to be the final annual total.

If Knock is starting slowly, as BRS_flyer seems to be indicating, well it is November and it can be seen that SNN was not brilliant at first at the same time of the year.

Pandy

16th Dec 2007, 08:10

Just been attempting to book DXB/BRS/DXB via FRA in May to give it a try.

LH website comes back with about £3675 what ever day in May, I chose! Over 3 times AF/KLM over CDG/AMS which in turn is about 1.5 times more expensive as EK or BA to LHR.

Using Opodo the pricing a bit more sensible, but in every case flying to BRS (near to my home in Cidershire) is at least 1.5 times more expensive than a direct to horrible Heathrow. Its materially cheaper to get my local taxi to / from LHR than use BRS.

I'd love to use BRS for a miriad of reasons, why is it so expensive to change at AMS/CDG/FRA? Its not as if I'm travelling tomorrow.

In the Middle East its usually cheaper to travel via an intermediate point, not it seems in Europe (well at least where BRS is concerned).

Pandy

Bristol_Traveller

16th Dec 2007, 08:52

Pandy,

There seems to be a bug in the LH pricing engine. I was looking at BRS-FRA-SIN (and return), and it kept returning D/C class fares of about £3,500 - £4,000 and highlighting those in yellow as the cheapest available fare.

However, a quick dip into expertflyer revealed availability in Z class (which is LH's discount biz class bucket), which the website wasn't showing. (Indeed, none of them seemed to be showing).

I rang LH, specified the itinerary segment by segment, and asked them to specifically price it against a Z class fare - and it came back at just about £2,000 (inc all taxes).

Part of me thinks it's a shame it isn't working right, because LH are capable of quite good biz class fares. The other half me of wonders if I should keep quiet to preserve availability.

(NB - IIRC Z class fares can't be combined with C and D class fares, so if any one segment doesn't have Z avails, the whole itinerary must be priced at C/D. BRS-FRA has masses of Z avails, so check the FRA-DXB-FRA segments).

sweet home ncl

16th Dec 2007, 09:15

I've had the same experience with LH trying to book NCL-DUS-YYZ with fares for a family of 3 coming in at around £6000.

Pandy

16th Dec 2007, 09:33

Thanks for this BT.
Must be something seriously wrong with LH 's system as I'm paying for this trip personally, so its Economy all the way, £3675!!
Or EK to LHR £360, ten times less!! KL & AF to BRS are about 1.5 to 2 times more than EK to LHR............grrrr

Bristol_Traveller

16th Dec 2007, 10:22

Pandy, sweet home ncl

I've just picked some random dates in May on expertflyer to look at ex-BRS fares. (All trips 7 days, including SA night away).

BRS-FRA-DXB-FRA-BRS - from £186 + TAXes.

Outbound: LH4965 / LH630
Inbound: LH631 / LH4960
Fare basis: WLNNGB

NCL-DUS-FRA-YYZ-DUS-NCL - from £372 + TAXes
Outbound: LH4951 / LH811 / LH9626 (op by AC)
This is a bit of a fuss - the connection between at DUS is not met (connection time is 25 minutes, MCT is 35 minutes).
The preferred routing is via DUS-FRA-YYZ
Inbound: LH471 / LH4950
Fare basis: VKXNCGBW

I would suggest calling LH on the phone (0870 837 7737) and tell them to look for the appropriate class availability on those flights, and price it against those fare basis.

I'l drop an e-mail to LH CS and let them know that their website is conspiring against them...

Pandy

16th Dec 2007, 10:32

Thanks BT - much appreciated

MUFC_fan

16th Dec 2007, 15:31

Why not try:

BRS-MAN Air Southwest
MAN-DXB Emirates?

Suzeman

16th Dec 2007, 16:13

Only if you can get any decent availability on EK ex MAN which is not easy unless you are booking very early.

Suzeman

Bristol_Traveller

16th Dec 2007, 16:24

Why not try:

BRS-MAN Air Southwest
MAN-DXB Emirates?

Poor connection times, no interlining of bags, and no rebooking if one of the operators screws up and cancels flights on you (more likely to be ASW than EK).

(Looking at the current ASW schedule, you'd have a 6 hour layover on the way out, and 3.5 hours on the way back).

There is a decent LH fare now showing on the website (£422.30 including taxes).

MUFC_fan

16th Dec 2007, 16:53

It would be worth it though for the EK experience. With the 773ER it really does make flying a treat.

Unfortuntely, most MAN flights to the East (EY,QR,SQ and EK) all ways seem to be full due to connections etc. Thats why I believe that CX at MAN would be better than Oasis due to the available connections. Anyway, thats for another thread!;)

CentreFix25

16th Dec 2007, 17:28

Ezy > Ncl
Ek > Dbx

Same trouble with the bags though.

sweet home ncl

16th Dec 2007, 18:01

Thank's bristol traveler, hopefully they will get it sorted!

BRS_flyer

18th Dec 2007, 14:33

FR have done some serious route announcing today so it may have been a mistake as a lot of new routes have been loaded into the booking system. It certainly would be a surprise to see those 2 routes announced, particularly as it would require a number of sectors a day to make them worth operating. If true I would be surprised to see EDI rather than PIK

devon_guy

18th Dec 2007, 15:10

I'd be very surprised as you can't get MAN-BRS or EDI-BRS despite BRS-MAN and BRS-EDI coming up. I reckon it's an error, though I could well be wrong.

Suzeman

18th Dec 2007, 15:18

FR are saying 4 more routes from MAN by June 2008 in addition to the 4 announced today, so who knows.

But with the new X-country train services from BRS -MAN , I don't think this would be any good, especially with a B737.

Suzeman

HEADWAY

20th Dec 2007, 21:28

Hi does anyone know if Ryanair have changed their minds about allocating more nightstopping aircraft since Bristol haven't been mentioned in the new route allocation 2 days ago. I heard a while back that there may be one aircraft in March 2008 and one in May 2008.

crackling jet

27th Dec 2007, 09:21

With the 'magnificant seven' BAA airports strike looming next month, does anyone know whether Bristol has been approached-nominated to take some of the southeast airports movements as has Cwl according to Mathers-wales.

Its about this time of year when for whatever reason weather,fog etc that Brs seems to attract diversions, in previous occassions over the years we have seen the airport packed to the gills with a/c parked all over the airfield.

And does anyone remember when SAS transferred their whole operation for over twenty four hours to Brs bringing their own ground equipment and catering vehicles down from LHR.

Though that was when the airport ran everything themselves,pre sell out days, and one has to wonder if all partners have the ability let alone the will to tackle it,i'd like to think so but i doubt it after previous demonstrations

Ranger 1

27th Dec 2007, 09:50

I remember the SAS Diversions back in the late 80's very well, as I was the duty Marshaller on that day & had to plan & park them,which included on the taxiways, it was quite challenging as Hold A was closed due to Works everything was entering at B (which was then called C) for backtrack line up prior to departure, which had to kept clear, it was without doubt one of the most satisfying 14hr shifts I have ever done although I admit a bit scary at times squeezing them in.
It was due to Shallow fog covering much of the UK, at one period that day us & Prestwick were the only UK airports open to VFR ILS Cat 1 traffic.
We eventually fogged out at around 2000 hrs visibility dropped to 50m!
We all had a bonus of £50 in our pay that Christmas for our hard work, only to loose all traffic here over that Christmas period due to Freezing fog that lasted 5 days.
Procedures for diversions have always been in place, & the possible effects of BAA disruption have already been in our minds since they announced possible strike action a couple of weeks ago.
All the best for 2008
Ranger 1 :ok:

cornishsimon

27th Dec 2007, 12:10

just curious here but what would the likely diversion airports be should the baa strike actually go ahead.
know its not the correct thread but.............

HZ123

27th Dec 2007, 14:17

I would hazard a guess that inbound aircraft would not be greatly affected by virtue of management providing a limited cover and short haul diverting or more than likely being cancelled. At LHR (I stand to be corrected) there seems to be little talk about it and not a great deal of appetite. One of the largest groups within the BAA plc and its limited companies are the Security and I am confident that senior management are up for a fight if the outcome might be outsourcing this particular group. Other than limited scope for diverts to MAN, LTN and BHX there are very few airports availible to provide resources for longhaul aircraft.

cornishsimon

27th Dec 2007, 14:31

yeah agreed with that
however there are airports out there that could accomidate long haul a/c should the need be

i dont know what spare capacity there is at the likes of Manchester and Birmingham, but im sure that the likes of NQY who do have a handling contract with ba for example would be very keen to attract diversions. facilities and runway are able to cope with it. any others that could accomidate longhaul a/c ?

MUFC_fan

27th Dec 2007, 15:29

Would say:

LHR/LGW/STN - BHX/MAN
SOU - BOH
GLA/EDI/ABZ - PIK/MAN

Isn't it upto the captain anyway?

AirLCY

27th Dec 2007, 16:01

If the strikes do go ahead airlines will be notified in advance and pre plan any diversions, most airlines are likely to cancel flights(scheduled airlines) or delay them by 24hr where possible(charter airlines). BRS is likely to know well in advance if an airline is choosing to use it as an alternate to LHR etc.

crackling jet

27th Dec 2007, 16:06

HZ123

It is not only security is it, what about the firefighters,if they are not there, then thats it 'endex', so the incoming would be effected just as much. Remember when Gate Gourmet went on strike, how long was it to get back to normal after the strike and they are only a supply source. in addition the airport was still operational, albeit delayed and congested, so whats it going to be like when the two most legally required groups at an airport aren't there. at least the a/c wont take long to get back in postion, because they wont have gone anywhere to be in the wrong place and the inbounds will still be sat overseas waiting for an airport somewhere.

mathers_wales_uk

28th Dec 2007, 17:40

I'm sure all carriers would like to operate as many flights as they possibly could. If the BAA airports has a planned closure then the operations department has control over Captain instructing where to divert to.

If Heathrow and the other 6 airports are closed due to strike then i'm led to believe it will be not possible to have a slot for them and therefore an alternate flight plan will ned to be filed with an alternate destination.

It will not be possible for the airport to operate as there will not be sagnificant fire coverage for aircraft to land, plus no security personel.
Apparently Zoom, BA so far are looking at CWL if the strike does materialise.

Bearing in mind that Heathrow, Gatwick, Stanstead, Southampton, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen will all be out, this will be a massive blow to the UK airline infurstucture and the knock on effects will last for at least a week.

birdscarer

29th Dec 2007, 10:12

There is a meeting in the New Year regarding the BAA matter. No rumours....no speculation....NO BS! Lets just see what is said before jumping the gun. BRS has always proved it can handle what is thrown this way-lets see.
Everyone mentions Fire Cat but Its also worth pointing out-no Ops guys....no runway! It doesn't matter what the Fire Cat is!

Standard Noise

29th Dec 2007, 18:01

Ah, but you're assuming that no one else can keep a runway open. ;)
Some of us have done it before you know, long before Ops depts were a twinkle in the Airport's eye.

Now then, where's my goldfish cos it's definitely bigger than yours.:}

birdscarer

29th Dec 2007, 20:28

See-this is where BAA have failed....Send NATS out on our airfield to cover a strike and they would be eaten by a well trained, very vicious Hare before they get anywhere near the runway strip! Mark my words.....we call him General Woundwort! ;)

Standard Noise

29th Dec 2007, 22:25

Hares!? Nope, don't do hares, rabbits yes, hares no way.
I'm stayin' in me glass cage unless I get a guarantee of immunity from hare-assment.:uhoh:

Ranger 1

30th Dec 2007, 18:40

Standard Noise; Ahhh those were the days when you used to do that, quick run down the runway in a series Land Rover, Bird scaring tape on full blast then back into the cosy office! anyone can keep a runway open, but as regards the to a standard required to meet the Aerodrome licence conditions is another, I beleive a certain airport in the UK tired that back in May & came a tad unstuck.
Tell me did you place the Goose Necks out at dusk as well? :}
Happy New Year to you all.
:ok:

Standard Noise

30th Dec 2007, 21:08

Goose Necks? Someone's showing their age!

easyJet Galley King

2nd Jan 2008, 08:09

RE: Lufthansa Pricing

Do my eyes decieve me? Looking into BRS-BKK in May, and via Lufthansa's website am being quoted £3885 in economy! :mad: Please tell me this is a mistake?

Alternatives:
£637 with Air France via CDG with long connection outbound,
£450 with EVA from Heathrow direct
£420 with Gulf Air from Heathrow via Bahrain,

Best book me Purple Parking at LHR then......

Wee Weasley Welshman

2nd Jan 2008, 09:43

Regardless of Hares and Goose Necks there is no room to park diverted aircraft, no busses to move diverted pax to the terminal, no handlers to offload their bags and no belts to collect them from.

BRS has the least spare capacity of most regional non-BAA airports and as such should be well down the list of alternate operations.

CWL meanwhile coped very well when *most* airlines decamped there from BRS during the alleged slippery runway 'episode'.

It is to airport like CWL with tarmac to spare that alt ops will be directed in my opinion. I also don't think the strike will happen. Its not a finely balanced cost/saving calculation as keeping a FSP scheme for 2,000 new joiners would cost maybe £12 million over a decade. A repeated 2 day stoppage of BAA ops would cost them more than that in the first hour..

WWW

Bristol_Traveller

2nd Jan 2008, 09:48

Oh for heaven's sake. The LH website is appalling for doing this. I've already moaned at CS about this problem, and it looks like I'll have to moan again. It'll be very frustrating if load factors on BRS-FRA are low because of this problem.

The trick is to select the LH operated flights, not the code shares. If you pick the codeshare (which is a codeshare with TG), it just prices on full fat economy.

Try this schedule.

01-MAY-08
LH 4963 BRS-FRA
LH 772 FRA-BKK

13-MAY-08
LH 773 BKK-FRA
LH 4960 FRA-BRS

FARE BASIS: VLNCGB / £403 + TAX (£246.40) = £649.40

Hope this helps. It's certainly in the ball park. There's a cheaper fare (£360 - W class), but I wouldn't advise it because it's only 50% miles earning in M&M, and zero in quite few other *A plans.

birdscarer

2nd Jan 2008, 10:56

WWW - You're quite right but I doubt that will stop BRS from trying to get a share. Its all money in a very competitive industry. But I too doubt if striking will be the answer.

EGK - have you tried a third party search engine? Just an idea.

MUFC_fan

2nd Jan 2008, 15:47

KLM have £623 for BRS-AMS-BKK return for 2 weeks departing 1st May.

F100s and B744s (mixed config.). Good flight times aswell.

iwak

2nd Jan 2008, 18:46

Hi guys

just wondering how loads on noc and ldy were over xmas

Bristol_Traveller

2nd Jan 2008, 21:26

The list of airports allowed to have more than one item of cabin baggage has just been published:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/transportforyou/airtravel/airportsecurity/cabinbaggage

Lots of your old favourites (LHR, BHX, MAN..), some surprises (Cambridge! Southend! Benbecula!), and some close to home (CWL, PLH..)

But what's this... no BRS? No EXT?

Maybe BE, EZ, and FR wouldn't stump up for the new machines eh? So much for bloomin LOCOs....

Confirmed Must Ride

3rd Jan 2008, 08:27

Just what the stressed check-in bod wants - more confusion from the DfT.

All foreign pax travelling thru UK must think we are a joke. Now it seems that you can take 2 bags thru BHX but not BRS or LGW and you can thru LHR??

AMS/FRA and CDG to name a few must be having a great laugh at our expense and coining it in.

nivsy

3rd Jan 2008, 21:49

Glad to hear that BRS will be getting better screening facilities. Must say having flown from the airport on 23d December it was well - rather poor at best...... being snaked along all the way back to the entry point then back round again! Shabby really. Did not think much of the departure area either come to think about it. Broken glasses in cafe left on the floor - generally unclean but granted was busy period.

Nivsy

symphonyangel

4th Jan 2008, 21:47

Re the handbaggage lifting of the one bag rule, i see that easyjet, flybe and Monarch to name just 3 are all sticking to the one bag rule regardless of what the airports do. No doubt Ryanair will do likewise. So why would Bristol go to the expense of getting new equipment or extending its security area if the airlines are going to stick with the one bag rule regardless.
Seems its only BA who have said its a 2 bag rule for all now. BMI even split it 2 bags for business class and 1 for economy.

MerchantVenturer

5th Jan 2008, 13:09

It is a nonsense. The passenger will be perplexed enough as it is with some airports allowing more than one cabin bag and others not, without the added confusion of some airlines allowing only one cabin bag even at airports where they could allow two.

As for Bristol Airport, the new security area is part of a larger amelioration of the terminal building. The new CEO stated last year that he was determined to reduce the security queues and so extra lanes and stations are being added (to give a total of nine), and internal work is being carried out to increase the airside area and reduce the landside area of the building.

The terminal was opened eight years ago and when the airport master plan was published in October 2005 it stated, “The terminal building is increasingly experiencing congestion and is already operating at or near its capacity at peak periods”. The plan continued, “We estimate the terminal can continue to function until 2009 when passenger numbers are forecast to exceed 6mppa”,

With the new Ryanair base, it is anticipated that 6 million will be exceeded significantly in 2008 - the CEO, in the airport consultative committee minutes on the airport website, has accepted the airport will get ahead of its projected annual passenger figures in the next twelve months,

However, the £100 million expansion plans are already two years behind the original schedule and are now being reviewed before planning applications are submitted. BRS is faced with a well-organised anti-expansion lobby and it is anticipated that the planning applications will result in a planning enquiry which will further delay matters.

The airport has therefore embarked on a multi-million pounds ‘makeover’ on parts of the terminal infrastructure that do not require planning consent in a bid to try to find more room for passengers’ needs, especially those waiting to depart.

Standard Noise

5th Jan 2008, 15:50

2 flights booked, one next week with EZY and one next month with RYR. To avoid the hold baggage charges, one has just purchased a new bag which will do trips up to 3 or 4 days and fit the bill as hand baggage. According to the respective airlines' websites, I have saved enough on not having hold baggage to more than pay for the bag.

Buy a bag to the full size of the cabin baggage limits and you won't need two bits of hand baggage, and it won't matter where you fly from. It's not rocket science chaps.

Bristol_Traveller

5th Jan 2008, 16:17

Seems its only BA who have said its a 2 bag rule for all now. BMI even split it 2 bags for business class and 1 for economy

Prior to the "one cabin bag" rule for all, most airlines implemented a policy of one bag for economy passengers, and two bags for premium economy and business, so the BMI rule (for example) is only going back to what they used to do prior to the imposition of the "one bag through security" rule.

In Economy (and certainly on airlines like FR and BE), there simply isn't enough overhead locker space/load capacity to allow people more than one bag.

However, the "one bag through security" rule played havoc with Business and PE passengers. I've just come out from MAN in Business on BMI, and there was acres and acres of overhead locker space. I'm away for 6 days, so I have a rucksack with the laptop/washbag/cables/camera/PDA etc, and a wheelie-bag with clothes in. On the way out (yesterday) I had to check the wheelie-bag. Coming back (on Thursday), I can bring it with me and therefore possibly stand a chance at making the 45 minute connection between me arriving and trying to get the MAN-BRS flight on WOW.

Whilst I accept that, by volume, BRS is now awash with LOCO passengers, it's worth bearing in mind that CO, LH, KL, and AF all offer Business products, and with that an expectation of carrying TWO cabin bags on board (or at least to the plane door!).

Silvertop

6th Jan 2008, 20:52

Eventually (I hope never) some event, say a heavy landing, RTO or worse, will cause a locker to open (I've actually lost count of the times that I've seen one pop open whilst taxying) and some "trolly bag" is going to cause someone some serious injury. The CAA will act retrospectively (as usual) and all baggage above a certain weight or the size of a brief case, will go where it belongs....in the HOLD.
Happy New Year
Silvertop:ok:

Vasto1M

13th Jan 2008, 19:24

Anyone know why the Eastern Airways IOM service isn't operating for the next few weeks?

easyJet Galley King

16th Jan 2008, 13:46

Air Southwest to leave Bristol?

Heard it via crew transport today....

cornishsimon

16th Jan 2008, 14:39

from what i understand WOW's based aircraft will not be based at BRS following the start of the summer08 schedule, the crew base at BRS will also shut and the crew and a/c will be redeployed to either NQY or Plymouth to cover the new routes to GLA & NCL.

however from previous posts the BRS based a/c was only doing charter work anyway. the current Routes will still stay but be served by a/c based at either NQY or Plymouth

Standard Noise

21st Jan 2008, 21:23

Well strike me down with a pint of scrumpy! I come in for a nightshift and there's a big Beluga in front of the tower. What's occurring?

Churchillian

21st Jan 2008, 21:41

Hello SN. The Beluga was routing Bremen to Chester, but went around due crosswinds; they sat in the hold and looked at weather for CC, BB, NX and TG before opting for us. Talking to the crew after landing they apparently have stringent crosswind limits which become even stricter at certain airports after dark. Bristol was the only option that fitted the bill. A few of us had a look inside and it's one big space in there - great for a hangar party! Nice to see something different on the apron though.

Standard Noise

22nd Jan 2008, 00:36

Nice to see you were paying attention CCH!
Has to be said though, it is a strange looking beast and not what I was expecting to see when I rolled up at the gate.
Maybe we should get a price from them for hiring it out for the next joint watch rave!

Sam-MAN

22nd Jan 2008, 16:13

Firstly it joined the Hawarden ILS, went around due to wind, went in for a second attempt but once again went around. Went into the hold a couple of times over Hawarden then climbed up to FL150 heading down your way.

Sam

MerchantVenturer

22nd Jan 2008, 16:58

Nice for us 'southerners' to have a look at the whale - it's usually the 'northerners' across the city who are more likely to see her on the ground.

Does the Beluga still make regular trips into Filton? There is a nice photo on one of the FZO websites showing one parked up there.

Back to BRS, provisional CAA stats show just under 5.9 million passengers were handled during the year to 31 December 2007, an increase of 3.0% on 2006.

December 2007 saw 405,000 passengers, up 9.1% on December 2006 - mainly attributable to the new Ryanair services of course.

The local press recently highlighted BRS's decision to charge £1 (non-returnable, unlike many supermarkets) for the use of baggage trolleys.

The airport said fewer passengers now use them owing to the growing popularity of wheeled suitcases and the charge will enable the trolleys to be more closely monitored so they will be more readily available to those that want them. Hmm!

An item on this evening's ITV West local news suggests regional planners will recommend to the secretary of state that the land surrounding Bristol Airport should be removed from the green belt to allow it to be developed for related use such as warehousing (and presumably make it easier for the airport itself to expand).

That will go down well with the anti-expansionists and the local authority which seems very lukewarm on the idea of any further expansion.

bristolflyer

23rd Jan 2008, 08:35

The Beluga does come into Filton to collect wings for the A400M. A new loading area was constructed for this purpose.

crackling jet

25th Jan 2008, 15:43

Walkway,

Whats the latest on the new walklway out to the western apron, heard a rumour that it has been postponed due to oposition from local parish councilors. ( of which most of them will have moved into the area in the last few years,) they're not happy with taking all the houses from locals, they want to do them out of work as well

MerchantVenturer

25th Jan 2008, 18:07

I saw something in the local paper last week about the anti-expansion consortium complaining about the airport's decision to push ahead with the walkway without requesting planning permission.

The airport said it comes under works not requiring such permission and although this seems to be accepted by the antis they say the airport should apply for planning permission anyway so that the elected representatives of the community can decide.

The newspaper report certainly did not suggest the airport was having second thoughts although they may have had in the meantime. THE CEO said the walkway would mean that 95% of flights (I think that was the figure - it was a huge proportion anyway) could then be reached without the need for a bus, emphasising the environment card.

What sort of walkway will it be?

It's a long way to the western apron. Without some form of moving platform the elderly and less fit will find it a trial.

PS Thanks for the Beluga information, bristolflyer.

WATABENCH

25th Jan 2008, 21:19

Sod it, lets get it over and done with....MOVE THE BLOODY LOT TO FILTON!

Job done.....20 years to late but would sort all the probs out

:hmm:

Standard Noise

26th Jan 2008, 08:16

What sort of walkway will it be?
Looking at the artist's impression we've been furnished with, a girt big ugly one. Homage to grey steel.
Thankfully without windows on our side as far as I can see, the temptation to entertain the passing pax with a moondance has been cruelly snatched from our grasp!:{

DX Wombat

26th Jan 2008, 08:56

was routing Bremen to ChesterIt would have had a hard job landing at Chester as Chester doesn't have an airfield and I doubt it could have landed safely on the racecourse. Chester may have a farm strip or two, I'm not sure and don't have a Pooley's to hand to check. The nearest suitable place is Hawarden which isn't even in the same country let alone county. Can we PLEASE get it right. :*

crackling jet

26th Jan 2008, 09:12

Watabench, ( happy new year-see you're still full of the xmas spirit. nice to know your still live and kicking, how you doing )

Thats not the attitude is it ?, filton would never happen as you know, when the airport relocated from Whitchurch in 57, it was requested that Filton could be used as the new site for Bristol Airport by Bristol Corporation as it was at the time, however BAC refused saying you could not mix a commercial entity with an aircrft manufacturing facility and that was that.

Now that was in the heyday's when Brtiain led the world in a/c inovation and the order books were full, a sad difference from today, now more and more land is being sold off for housing and business use, that would rule out future repositioning, unless they do what they did in the past and send in the bulldozers and remove any trace of residencies around the area,never be permitted now, just imagine last weeks BA 777 incident had happened at Filton. At Heathrow i know the a/c cleared the the airfield boundry but landed 800-1000 mtrs short, now imagine that a/c landing 800-1000 mtr's short of Filtons threshold, doesn't bear thinking about does it.

Remember in 89-90 ish when Mr Arrogant ( with the strange celtic spelling of his name ) from BAe announced that they were going to operate a commercial airport at Filton, and flights would be operated by Air Bristol BAe 1-11's, and that they had already converted a building on the site for use as a terminal building and that they would be in operation within 3-4 months, the resulting inquiry soon kicked his a***,( what ever happened to him ? ) and said that was the end of the matter- no appeals.

Now i have lived within a mile from the airport all of my life and do not notice any noise, no im not deaf, but its like living near a railway, you just get used to it, however when i drive around my village, i know for a fact that 75-80% of my neighbours have only recently ( within 10 years )moved in and my village is not one of the popular in the area, also most of my school friends have left the area due to no employment and unable to buy a home in their local area due to retired gentry and company directors on highly inflated earnings forcing them out and taking over local parish councils, then deciding what is best for the indigenous oiks and imbesiles that still reside in their village, example :- one upper class snob actually tried to take a farmer to court to have his farms dung heap removed and to stop him spreading it on the fields due to the offensive smell it caused, its sad that there are people with the inclination and the ability to cause such mayhem in the community, as with the farmers dung heap, the airport was there when they arrived, so why buy the house in the first place, a second example was during the first public inquiry for the new terminal in 2000, when a t*** stood up and said " i moved here from near Heathrow two months ago and im not going to put up with that again "

Well now ive vented my spleen i feel better, now lets have some sense and see some progress

LGS6753

26th Jan 2008, 11:27

MV -

You say that a walkway at Bristol would be very long, but have you visited Luton in the last few years? There is now a walkway from the East side of the new terminal round to stand 1, on the western edge of the old main apron. Signs suggest passengers allow 15 minutes (!) for the walk, and there are no travellators/moving walkways. I don't know how far it is, or how it compares with distances at Bristol, but you walk past the equivalent of a dozen or so nose-in parking stands.

I don't believe Luton required planning permission, and it was constructed during Mr Kehoe's reign....

Skipness One Echo

26th Jan 2008, 11:57

Didn't the Hawker Siddley plant at Chester not build Comets? Guess the runway and such is long gone now.

globetrotter79

26th Jan 2008, 14:26

Hawarden [CEG / EGNR] (also often referred to as Broughton or Chester Airport...depending on who you ask) does have a reasonable runway.

It was lengthened some years ago when the Beluga started flying to avoid the odd situation of building the airbus wings on an airfield and then having to truck them up the road to manchester to catch their flight to Toulouse!

CEG also regularly handles the A319 of Privatair which operates the airbus inter-site company shuttle...plus I believe that Eastern still has a Jetstream based on site to do the local double daily shuttle for airbus down to Filton.

There is a tiny 'terminal' on the north side of the field which caters for business jets etc.

Given the relative closeness to the city (and remember the number of banking corporations etc located very close by on Deesside), plus lack of decent airport for north wales, the thought has often crossed my mind that CEG would support sort of a smaller version of Southampton airport...you could easily imagine a double daily J41 or D38 to LCY, EDI, AMS for the business traffic and something like an Aer Arran to DUB for the low cost leisure.

Some years ago this might have been given the time of day by the airfield operator, but now that control has effectively passed to Airbus, BAE no longer has to worry so much about 'bigging up' the value of the site...

Standard Noise

26th Jan 2008, 15:17

crackling jet - hear! hear!

something like an Aer Arran to DUB for the low cost leisure
Crikey, some people have a funny idea about what's low cost!

DX Wombat

26th Jan 2008, 17:20

Globetrotter, I was born and brought up in Liverpool and had several friends from the Chester area. I never once hear Hawarden being referred to as "Chester", it was always "Hawarden" and RAF Sealand was always "Sealand". Having flown into Hawarden, it was my first stop on my QXC, I have been to the terminal with its friendly ATC staff. The Airbus sheds can be something of a nightmare when the wind is in the wrong direction as not only is it a crosswind, but it bounces back across the runway creating some nasty turbulence. If I'm not mistaken there is also a FTO based there.

globetrotter79

26th Jan 2008, 21:42

DXWombat

The "Chester" reference is perhaps only a marketing ploy by the handling agent (which operates the 'temporary'/bizjet terminal on the north side of the field) to attract in the businessmen. Nevertheless, it is there and these guys are actively marketing the airfield as such (you'll find the website as "Chester Airport"...I assume I'm not allowed to post the full URL on here, but a simple google search will bring up the right site).

WATABENCH

26th Jan 2008, 23:33

Ha ha hello CJ yeah i'm still about, kind of....only messing with the whole Filton thing, I love Lulsgates bottom really!

crackling jet

27th Jan 2008, 08:13

Watabench

I know, just an excuse to have a go, as you do ( see p.m. in your inbox )

C.J.

MerchantVenturer

27th Jan 2008, 18:59

crackling jet,

I grew up in the Wrington/Redhill area in the 1940s and 50s and have seen Wrington and other villages in the airport hinterland turn into almost small towns in comparison with those days because of the massive growth of incomers during the past forty years or so.

I have nothing against villages developing in this way or people moving to the country to live, but it does get my goat when the same people say the expansion of the airport will ruin their tranquil havens. They have already destroyed the rural idylls of past generations by their increased numbers.

Many of them produce carbon emissions by choosing to live in the country and then having to commute to Bristol and Bath for work (the only time the A 38 is really busy is at morning and evening commute time), yet one of their key objections to airport expansion is the damage aircraft do to the environment.

In my experience the majority of the traditional village families support and enjoy the airport - apart from anything else it provides work. You have highlighted the incomers who seem fixated on a sanitised version of village life illustrated on expensive chocolate box covers, with no smelly fields and certainly no nasty airports. They have taken over the villages and are to be seen in all sorts of leading positions from parish councils to amateur dramatic groups.

They don’t want the Green Belt reduced. Where do they imagine the houses they now live in were built? I’ll tell them - many on former green field sites.

These people are doing potential damage to the region’s economy, and possibly to some of their own jobs by their continued airport opposition.

The Bristol city region is extremely successful economically and the city is invariably in the top five UK cities when surveys are undertaken to determine the favourite cities for businesses to relocate.

For example, the latest Cushman and Wakefield UK Cities Business Monitor found that Bristol is the fourth best UK city in which to locate a business, after London, Manchester and Birmingham.

Part of the study found that in the next five years Manchester can expect the biggest influx of new companies followed by Birmingham and Bristol.

The study was made up of various components and one important factor highlighted by business executives in deciding to locate a business is international transport links. Bristol came fifth in this measure after London, Manchester, Birmingham and Glasgow.

A thriving and expanding airport is therefore essential if the city region is to retain its competitive edge

Taking another of your points, Filton is certainly a non-starter these days. I think it was around 1995 or 1996 when the public enquiry was held into Bae’s application to turn that airfield into a city airport which resulted in the secretary of state (Selwyn Gummer?) eventually turning it down.

LGS6753,

BRS already has some covered walkways to stands nearest the terminal. They are ugly (I accept this is subjective) and draughty, especially when you have to queue in one for 5 or 10 minutes on a cold winter’s morning waiting to be allowed to walk across to the aircraft steps.

It sounds from Standard Noise’s description that the new one will be little different.

It is a great pity we shall be denied potential entertainment from him and his colleagues though.

Having had a look at Google Earth I would estimate the distance to the extreme end of BRS’s western terminal may be slighty shorter than the one at LTN that you mentioned; still a fairish walk though.

crackling jet

27th Jan 2008, 22:53

M.V.

Well said, another local who knows whats good for our area's prosperity, as you said they infiltrate positions of power in greater numbers than local people, then dictate what can and can't be done. have you noticed that any plans for things such as development at the airport or affordable low cost housing for the remaining younger members of the community to stay in the area are shot straight down, stating by the parish councils as this is not the sort of development we want in our village, yet you drive round the villages and how many 4-5 bedroom luxury houses are springing up in what used to be fields!, you only know about it when the contractors move in and not a word is heard, presumably because it's some more of their people on the way.

Perhaps we should borrow the system our celtic neighbors used in the eighties when outsiders (english) arrived " come home to real fire,buy a house in (wales) the village.( No offense to all across the water, it was a belter )

MudRat_Y2K

28th Jan 2008, 08:00

If anyone is interested here are the plans to the walkway, they and other plans can be found within the North Somerset Council planning website. Serching for "Bristol International Airport" and "Bristol Airport" return different results.

http://wam.n-somerset.gov.uk/MULTIWAM/showCaseFile.do;jsessionid=19AAD0D5595A48C7D05A40ABBEB5249F? action=show&appType=planning&appNumber=07/P/3214/PAI

mikelima1948

28th Jan 2008, 13:00

I've particularly enjoyed reading the last 3 posts. If you care to click on the link provided by MudRat you will be given the opportunity to comment on the application. The walkway project has attracted a lot of interest, mostly negative and it is intesting to note that the backyard is now assuming global status with comments submitted from as far away as Australia! Aviation really does appear to have shrunk the world in this instance and I think a few favourable comments would be welcome.

What do you all think?

Ranger 1

28th Jan 2008, 14:03

Nice to see you on board Mike Lima 1948:)

DisasterEight

28th Jan 2008, 14:36

Bout ye lads whats the crack. Good day yesterday. Well Kinky Louise what ya been up to. Just a wee update to see how u are. Love you loads your favourite Airline fLYmaybe. xoxoxoxox

p.s Hope to see you soon for another drink......:ok::ok::ok::ok:

DisasterEight

28th Jan 2008, 14:56

Well louise, after that mighty nightstop and those glossy tights you lent me, i havent stopped thinking about it. Although my wife is becoming suspicious but sure! Whilst flying in the cruise i have become aroused and during approach my arousing situation has caused a go around.

BTW are you still walking funny because i couldnt stand normally

Oh and those satin panties were heaven during turbulence

Standard Noise

28th Jan 2008, 18:23

mikelima - welcome to the fray dear boy.

andy_smith89uk

29th Jan 2008, 16:00

> Lufthansa start BRS-FRA 3 times daily from March 30th.
>

Does anyone know if this is a Summer-only route or whether the plan is to continue it into 2008/09 timetable as well? At the moment I don't seem able to book this route beyond the Autumn (which I would like to if it's going to continue!)

Thanks in advance...

(PS - have e-mailed Lufthansa direct twice, but needless to say no reply!)

Edit: Already asked on another thread and had one reply saying they *think* these flights ARE to continue into the Winter, but thought I would also try you knowledgable chaps on here too! :)

Bristol_Traveller

30th Jan 2008, 21:00

BRS-FRA is a "permanent" route (as much as routes are permanent these days) - not seasonal.

Maybe LH are waiting to see what the first 6 months loadings are like before committing to rotations in the winter? Although I really hope it doesn't go below 3 per day, because at the moment it's darnded useful.

2J&D

31st Jan 2008, 18:02

It appears that LH have finally got something sorted from BRS. We have noticed that a lot more of the 'consol' fares are showing with the operators I deal with.

One operator is actively 'pushing' the various routes, by way of their site and the sign in page, we as agents have to use.

Looks like all might not be lost!

The LH website - well who would want to book direct anyway!!

Try your local travel agent if you need any help - I am sure they can sort you out!!:ok:

andy_smith89uk

31st Jan 2008, 18:16

> BRS-FRA is a "permanent" route (as much as routes are
> permanent these days) - not seasonal.
>

Many thanks, that's what I wanted to hear! :)

Bristol_Traveller

31st Jan 2008, 18:31

Try your local travel agent if you need any help - I am sure they can sort you out!!

Ah. Beginners use Travel Agents.

Improvers deal with airlines directly.

Real pros find a real-pro TA... the kind of people who know what a fare basis is, and how to creatively combine them. (Although struggling to find those kind of TAs in Bristol - recommendations welcome).

2J&D

31st Jan 2008, 20:14

BT...

Not all of us just sell package deals to PMI!

Just today I have organised for people to go to Sudan, Bangladesh, Nicaragua and Colombia..Maybe you need to be looking wider than just Bristol itself...Somerset perhaps

If you want a contact then PM me.

Enough of the self selling now!!

But seriously, I hope the LH route really goes well as I know the airport are supporting it 101%...

andy_smith89uk

31st Jan 2008, 23:11

> The LH website - well who would want to book direct anyway!!
>

Have today been trying to find cheapest return fare BRS-Tegel (via FRA) in the Autumn. Cheapest option I have found seems to be to book via Expedia's US site (£138 at today's USD exchange rate).

If anyone knows a cheaper way of doing it, I'd be more than happy for the flood of PMs! Even LH's own US site sells the same flight for about £10-£15 less than its UK and Germany-based sites!

:)

Pandy

1st Feb 2008, 06:21

LH still haven't sorted out there website.

DXB/BRS/DXB still showing 4.5 times more fare cost in Y, than any other non stop DXB - LHR. Could go J class to LTN for half the price or J class to LHR for the same.

Much as I'd like to use BRS (near my home), its LHR & a taxi. Don't have the time / inclination to chase airlines that can't make their websites work, just don't use them. Maybe I'll try again next year.

Others must be finding this from other parts of the world, so it must effect LH loads out of BRS.

Bristol_Traveller

1st Feb 2008, 09:29

Pandy,

Try calling a Travel Agent (a pro one) and get them to do a fare combination. They can sort out out a DXB-FRA fare (QLNRAE - £291) with a FRA-BRS fare (WABASIC1 - £103), meaning you'll pay £396 plus taxes. This is an allowable fare combination.

Doing it this way works out at £103 more than flying to LHR or BHX, simply because they haven't yet loaded a QLNRAE fare basis to DXB-BRS.

I've had some feedback that these problems might not sort themselves out until the route has launched on 30-MAR-08, so one option might be to try after then. But it's still very annoying and doubtless scaring people off trying the route.

2J&D

1st Feb 2008, 11:14

Pandy

Not sure when you want to go, but have checked various consolidators and they are showing BRS-DXB v.v with LH for GBP125 plus taxes, 10-17 April for eg and it is showing avail.

The fares are out there, you just need to check various places..

Pandy

1st Feb 2008, 11:34

BT

Thanks for your advice, unfortunately its too late, I've booked on the internet to LHR. So that's one seat e/w lost in April. I'm sure they'll be really worried!

I look at this site in the (vain) hope that one day someone will post news of a direct to the Gulf out of BRS & I can avoid LHR.

Having said that Terminal 5 opens shortly before so maybe LHR will improve.

What really irritates me is nearly every airline pushes internet booking (cos it saves them agents commission etc) and its supposedly easier for you, Ha Ha.

If it then doesn't work properly, or gives you a ridiculous fare, you're told to ring the airline who in turn tell you its a 'quirk' or 'glitch' or waffle waffle waffle......

If any airline can't make its booking engine work properly how does the average SLF know it operates MX/ Safety (or whatever) software accurately. I'm not saying it doesn't, but foul up your booking engine for too long & there won't be any other software issues, as it'll be bust. So if whatever airline can't sort the booking engine what other software can't it sort.

C**p booking engine = Pandy's no fly list!!

What a message to send to your new (potential) customers on a newly launched route..... We can't or we won't sort the booking engine ....

Bit like a potential bad debt its either 'can't pay' or 'won't pay'.

WATABENCH

1st Feb 2008, 20:21

Can anyone tell me if Eastern are dropping their IOM service?

yeo valley

2nd Feb 2008, 07:31

heard IOM back in march. but could be wrong.

MerchantVenturer

2nd Feb 2008, 17:57

The BRS-IOM was initially shown in the Eastern booking engine as bookable again from 1 April.

The flight is still in the web booking engine but no dates are now available to book.

Eastern told me this morning the flight has been axed permanently and they will remove it from the booking engine shortly.

It seems the service from Staverton (2 x daily weekdays and cheaper fares) has had a significant effect because since it started the BRS-IOM pax figures were down in Sept, Oct, Nov and Dec by 13%, 12%, 20% and 24% respectively.

Guern

2nd Feb 2008, 19:47

Is it true that when one of Aurigny's ATR's went tech recently they used a Trislander to do the Bristol to Guernsey run? :eek:

Much though I like flying on the Tri I can't imagine that would have been much fun if it is true!

WATABENCH

3rd Feb 2008, 17:07

Thanks peeps....not what i wanted to hear but at least i know.

WATABENCH

20th Feb 2008, 19:37

I used the CO over the weekend, just thought i'd share my experiance, what a great service...last time i went to NYC in 2005 was with AA from LHR, this was so much better, flight was pretty much on time leaving BRS, great crew who were telling me how much they enjoyed their little 48 hr BRS jaunts and that they love the "Party scene" and the random locals,
O/B, flight was full in economy but business was nearly empty, but then it was a friday...got to EWR, strait off the plane, cleared customs in 2 minutes(compared to 1.3 hrs at JFK last time), had bags within 10 mins, strait outside for a taxi, at my hotel 30 mins later and at the top of the Empire State building within an hour and half of landing!
Coming home, no que at check-in, flight on time again and i reckon 95% full incl business, great crew again got a couple of free beers just for chatting with the crew and telling them that "the other place like Stonehenge" that they wanted to visit is called Avebury, and that yes Bath is well worth a visit, 6hrs 10 mins later and i'm pulling on to stand 2 at BRS, 20 mins later(good work s-air) i'm in my car for my half hour drive home....and one very happy girlfriend!
A great service and a much more relaxing way to visit NYC.
It was also great to hear that the CO crew seem to enjoy coming to BRS, long may it continue :ok:

Standard Noise

20th Feb 2008, 21:18

Well we did supply them with a list of half decent eateries and watering holes within staggering distance of their crew hotel.
Nice to know that they like what they have found.

yeo valley

21st Feb 2008, 14:08

Any one know whats up with the apron site.???

birdscarer

21st Feb 2008, 15:55

In what sense of the word Yeovalley? The apron is all still there! ;)

crackling jet

21st Feb 2008, 17:49

Anyone know what happened to the thomson Luxor service that was supposed to operate this winter and when they close the thomson base will the a/c still operate 'W' patterns through Brs

MerchantVenturer

21st Feb 2008, 17:51

yv,

The apron website has been down for a couple of days or more.

I hope it's not being taken out of use because it is very useful, especially the Mayflys.

The main airport website had problems yesterday with online car park booking but that's now back.

Goldilocks95

21st Feb 2008, 18:33

Maybe its all to do with thepower cut they had a couple of days ago. It was a planned 1 but it still caused a lot of problems the next day! A few of the shops couldnt open cus of their tills and i think it affected the fid screens as well.

MerchantVenturer

28th Feb 2008, 19:35

January 2008 CAA provisional stats show BRS passenger numbers increased by 19.8% compared with January 2007, although the latter was untypically low following the temporary closure of the airport because of the well-publicised runway problems. Rolling 12 months show BRS handled 5.94 million passengers, up 4.7% on the same period the previous year.

A few points below taken from the latest airport consultative committee minutes that have been published this week.

The Airport Flyer coach saw a 22% increase in the number of people using the facility in 2007 compared with 2006. 440,000 people travelled on the coach, representing around 7.5% of airport users.

This has prompted the airport to look at extending the Flyer service to Bath and Weston, something the master plan says won’t be feasible until annual airport throughput reaches 9 million so a change there then, and to increase the frequency of the Flyer to ten-minute intervals at certain times of the day; it is currently at fifteen-minute intervals for much of the day and early evening. They are to introduce a web booking facility for the Flyer.

The controversial walkway to the western apron will cost £9 million and will have air-conditioning and be heated, assuming it is built. Originally, the airport’s rationale was that the walkway would save numerous bus journeys to remote stands and thus be better for the environment. In the minutes the CEO seemed to be placing more emphasis on the operational advantages, saying that during the morning rush they are encountering problems finding enough buses to service the parked aircraft in the time the likes of easyJet and Ryanair require.

The CEO said an increasing number of business people are using the low-cost airline services from BRS - doubtless aimed in the direction of at least one committee member who is vehemently anti-expansion.

In fact, the 2007 influential Cushman and Wakefield UK Cities Monitor survey of senior executives of two hundred major companies in the UK found that in international transport links Bristol comes fifth after London, Manchester, Birmingham and Glasgow.

The city was also judged fourth best UK city in which to locate a business behind London, Manchester and Birmingham and, along with Birmingham, could expect to see the biggest influx of new companies in the next five years with only Manchester seeing more.

This sort of thing needs to be pushed publicly by the airport to counter the anti-expansionists’ mantra that the airport is overwhelmingly a facility for leisure travellers.

Addendum: The apron website is back today after around ten days out.:ok:

brs planespotter

2nd Mar 2008, 17:48

ryanairs 2 based a/c do tend too use stands 1,2 or 3 for the first wave,they also use w apron as well.as for co,its either stand 2 or stand 30,rgds,brs planespotter:):)

brs planespotter

5th Mar 2008, 16:43

yes,its true,we had g-joey in a few weeks back,makes a nice change,:)

aeulad

9th Mar 2008, 23:06

FR to ORK showing in the FR booking engine. Is this a series of one offs or something?

Regards

Mike

Tom the Tenor

9th Mar 2008, 23:28

One off for the Munster Vs Gloucester rugby game.

Flap Track 6

10th Mar 2008, 15:34

Arrived at BRS on Sunday evening (9th March) for my regular flight to Berlin to find that the queue for security screening went down the stairs, across the check-in hall and through the little tunnel almost as far as the Subway sandwich place. The queues have been getting worse and worse each Sunday evening for the last few weeks. I queued up for 45 minutes just to get to the security screening area only to find they only had three machines in operation.

Sunday evening is a busy time with about 8 flights going out between 17:30 and 18:30, surely they should have all their machines manned during that period? The whole situation was given a touch of farce when final boarding calls were being made and the pax were still trying to get through security.

The team of operators on the fourth machine shut down and left at the end of their shift at 17:30 when the queue was still out past the boarding pass check desk and probably still off down the stairs. I appreciate Sunday evening shifts are probably the least sought after, but are they really having problems manning the security area or have the airport management deliberately created this situation?

Is it also like this on other days?

MerchantVenturer

11th Mar 2008, 19:24

This sounds like the morning situation although when I left in the morning rush a few Fridays ago the queues weren't that long; took about 10-15 minutes to get through security from the back of the queue.

I shall be through again this week in the morning rush so will be hopeful things are at least as good.

As I'm sure you are aware, the entire security scene is being revamped and enlarged. Not before time by the sound of it, although there will still need to be people to man it in appropriate numbers.

It seems that easyJet now have eleven 319s based at BRS (eleven in tonight and eleven out in the morning according to the boards). Presumably the eleventh aircraft which operated in peak summer last year is becoming permanant.

Tomorrow morning shows 25 departures between 6 and 9, including the eleven easyJet 319s plus two easyJet 737s from BFS and NCL, 3 Ryanair 738s and an assortment of other scheduled and charter operators.

If it's like this in early March what will it be like in the summer with the extra charter flights and new scheduled routes and carriers?

The security system will need to be in tiptop shape.

Red Snake

14th Mar 2008, 14:11

BRS was bad last night also. The last KL flight from AMS was stuck on the ramp for 20 minutes 'as the steps don't seem to go low enough for this type of aircraft'. Let's see - 4 flights a day for how many years, and they don't which steps fit the Fokker?!

If that wasn't enough the passport check queue snaked its way all the way back up up stairs to the ramp, wasting another 20+ minutes. And that at 23:00. Goodness knows what it was like earlier.

Seems BRS has outgrown its own level of competence.

Wee Weasley Welshman

14th Mar 2008, 20:40

Indeed EZY does now have 11th aircraft based at BRS and in August the 12th will be there - temporarily (just like the 11th one was, hopefully).

The security queues are eye raising I agree. The improvements shortly to be unveiled will hopefully ease the situation greatly.

WWW

Bristol based Taffy

14th Mar 2008, 21:35

Hi all

Despite my lack of postings I'm an avid reader of the BRS threads, and M.V. always manages to provide an objective viewpoint.

So maybe M.V. can assist with this :mad: Lufthansa booking page on their web site :ugh:

I've tried unsuccessfully to book a flight to Athens via FRA recently and all I got on the LH web page was a blank page once I'd filled in all the required fields.

Eventually I had to resort to another search engine and have succesfully booked the trip. But doesn't bode well for LH if they can't get their own web page up and running correctly.

Bristol_Traveller

14th Mar 2008, 22:14

I've tried unsuccessfully to book a flight to Athens via FRA recently and all I got on the LH web page was a blank page once I'd filled in all the required fields.

Ah, lufthansa.co.uk strikes again. I've just tried with some sample dates in mid-May, and it's come back with the +/-3 day fare matrix correctly, populated with the correct fares.

Having kept an eye on this, I have a strong suspicion that lufthansa pre-cache or otherwise pre-calculate the fare matrices for routes, and that they only do so once someone had asked for them. In a few instances on this board, people have had problems getting fares, or only getting full Y fares, only for it to clear up a few days later.

The couple of lufthansa people I've mentioned it to assure me that there's nothing nefarious going on, so maybe this is just new-route-teething problems for their own website. Ironic, isn't it?

WWW Said:
The security queues are eye raising I agree. The improvements shortly to be unveiled will hopefully ease the situation greatly.

I jolly well hope so. Part of the strategy for lufthansa in diversifying from Heathrow was traveller disgruntlement at poor conditions and burdensome transit times through the airport. It's not very appealing to swap cross passengers and delayed flights at LHR for cross passengers and delayed flights at BRS.

My foremost concern with the security situation is the impact that missing a KL flight to AMS or a LH flight to FRA might have on a passenger who's flying on long-haul somewhere else. That kind of re-booking can be extraordinarily expensive for airline, and all because a bunch of hens and stags on a 99p flight to Prague can't get their fluids sorted out!

Bristol based Taffy

14th Mar 2008, 22:28

Thanks for the almost instant response B.T. :ok:

It was driving me to distraction as the fare seemed to be rising at an expotential amount every 24 hours!!! :eek:

Finally booked it, and hopefully it'll be worth all the grief.

What with SAS and LH now at BRS, can only hope my favourite A.C. decides to operate A319's to YYZ soon.....:O

crackling jet

15th Mar 2008, 08:17

I presume you are reffering to BA and their plan to operate A319's out of London City with a refuelling tech stop to allow trans atlantic crossings, now that would be nice to see. I know at present we have the daily Continental to New York that seems to be doing better all the time, but you do wonder with all the reports of Bristol being one of the UK's leading financial cities and the fact that so many people are still traveling to LHR to fly with our national carrier for whatever reason, whether there is a niche there to allow some of these staunch BA passengers from the southwest to connect with their flights at Bristol.

This would fit in with BA's 'project Laurel' strategey, allowing smaller regional airports to offer such services, leaving extra slots at LHR for their core routes and relieving some congestion in the london area and giving them a presence back in the southwest.

I know at present, your own 'Homeland airport, CWL, is hoping to be considered as the farthest west UK airport for the fuel tech stop, prior to the onward flight going 'feet wet', and with the lower tax breaks for low passenger yield airports that could be the case, though wether they would prefer an Irish and take advantage of US border and customs imigration control- if that system is indeed still in operation. Still, we can 'dream'

Bristol based Taffy

15th Mar 2008, 10:42

"I presume you are reffering to BA and their plan to operate A319's out of London City with a refuelling tech stop to allow trans atlantic crossings, now that would be nice to see."

Actually, NO! :E

A.C. have up until recently been operating A319/20 from Canada to LHR. I think St. Johns, no doubt someone will correct if wrong. So the possibility is there, though I admit I'm not sure on the performance/ runway required to get to YYZ non stop in a 'bus

Would be 'nice to see' A.C. using BRS, although I'm not holding my breath.

2J&D

15th Mar 2008, 11:04

Morning all!

It appears that the problem of booking LH on their own website has still not been resolved...However (and there is no self advertising here! as I personally want the route to succeed) but why not give a travel agent a try?

People are becoming frustrated and the route needs all the support it can get. Agents have access to all the fares you would probably need and anyone of them should be able to take the stress away, whilst giving you what you want! I am sure that we are all in support of the route but it is a shame that some are booking from London just because the airlines own website is not quoting properly.

It might mean you changing your ways a little, in the way you organise travel, but is it worth the headaches a number of people have had, when it could be so much easier and it means that you get what you want as well!

'Steps of Soap Box' :)

Thanks

4 engines 4 longhaul

15th Mar 2008, 11:14

I dont understand what the LH problems are, i've always been given a good price to various destination, booked BRS/STR in June for a reasonable £146, make sure you clear your cookies and restart you web browser and then try again:ok:

crackling jet

15th Mar 2008, 13:46

Bristol based Taffy

My appologies, as usual got hold of the S****y end of the stick, though my argument still stands. I can't see Air Canada at Bristol for many years, if ever, ( and not to forget the Bristol curse, all four canadian airlines that have operated into Bristol in the past, have all gone bust ! )

Regards C.J.

Bristol based Taffy

15th Mar 2008, 16:09

No need for apologies.

My original comment stemmed from BRS now having TWO Star Alliance airlines operating out of it.

Does wonders for the airmiles :O

And the fact that A.C. have used mini-busses across the pond recently.

Despite my origins :rolleyes: I've watched with amazement at the improvements taking place at BRS over the past few years. Long may it continue.

But I think a few people in high places wish they'd made the runway just a little longer a few years ago before the tree huggers got so organised

:=

Ranger 1

17th Mar 2008, 10:10

I thought only two airlines served Canada from BRS they were Odessey with a 757 & Worldways with a DC-8, who were the other two? :confused:

a bristolian

17th Mar 2008, 10:18

Caledonian B757 short season around 1992 ish!

Royal / Canada 3000 A310's /B757 in 2000 /2001 ish

brs planespotter

17th Mar 2008, 12:57

we also had a american transair l1011 pop in once or twice many years ago

Ranger 1

17th Mar 2008, 14:25

Not forgetting their DC-10 srs 40 ahh memories :)

Severn

17th Mar 2008, 15:51

Lufty starts 3xdaily connections to FRA with a B146-300 operated by eurowings starting Sun 30th, but i was wondering if anyone knows why the 'next weeks mayfly' on the Brs apron website shows the first flight being flown by a B737-300/500 ??

Bristol_Traveller

17th Mar 2008, 21:28

To lull us into a sense of comfort and well being?

(I was talking to an Airbus person last week, and we both agreed that BAe146 are our least liked aircraft).

I'm guessing that the weekend of 29-30th is an awkward transition weekend between Winter and Summer schedules, and they're having to move aircraft around. The 737 is probably the best available aircraft until another 146 comes off whatever route it's working now and becomes available to work BRS-FRA rotations.

Anyone else going on the first flight?

Bristol based Taffy

17th Mar 2008, 21:53

I just hope that sense of well being extends to the 2nd April as that's the date of my trip. :ok:

Then again maybe that dreaded Lufthansa booking engines been lying to us all along and there are thousands booked on the flights to the extent they've had to put a 737 on the rotation!!!! :=

Bristol_Traveller

17th Mar 2008, 22:07

Sadly, the seat availability suggests there will be plenty of room for a cabaret act, a disco with dancefloor and a cash bar on the first flight.

Only the 16:20 FRA-BRS looks even the teeniest bit full, and that's barely touching the sides.

Looks like my £78 return to FRA will be a good deal. (And certainly cheaper than the £500 odd for the inaugural BRS-EWR flight).

I wonder if I'll be on Points West again (and remain on the bbc.co.uk standard stock photo of BRS airport for three years).

Pandy

18th Mar 2008, 07:47

After my rant a few weeks back, I checked again and the LH website is still showing ridiculous fares for DXB/BRS/DXB. Not surprising there aren't many takers.

Bristol_Traveller

29th Mar 2008, 16:09

Less than 24 hours to go to the first BRS-FRA flight. I haven't been up the airport for a couple of weeks - is there a check-in area, check-in terminals and such like setup and ready to go?

Tomorrow's flights still look pretty empty. Looks like we'll have the plane to ourselves.

Interestingly, all the flights now have BD codeshares. A word to the wise - BD's fuel surcharges are lower than LH's, so it's worth booking on the BD code using a BD fare if you can. (Although BD's bizarre website won't let you).

On the subject of fares. LH still haven't created fare combinations for BRS with all their possible destinations, which is why the website keeps throwing up ridiculous Y fares for some routes. It would appear that LH's own website is pretty rubbish at understanding fare combining (coupling up a -KOMBI11 fare with whatever the long-haul fare is). I've found that travelocity.co.uk, expedia and opodo can all do better, along of course with your friendly local TA. (And it would help if LH published a -FLEX11 basis at something cheaper than BFLEX11).

Bristol based Taffy

29th Mar 2008, 17:52

I'm suprised that following on from the T5 debacle LH, AF, KL and CO together with Bristol Airport themselves are not using it as a superb advertisment for flying from Bristol.:rolleyes:

Personnaly looking forward to my trip on LH on Wednesday.

Bristol_Traveller

29th Mar 2008, 18:14

I'm suprised that following on from the T5 debacle LH, AF, KL and CO together with Bristol Airport themselves are not using it as a superb advertisment for flying from Bristol.

Umm. I'd be cautious about that. People in glass houses and all that. Whilst T5 might be a big terminal with big problems, when those security queues start heading down the stairs, across the concourse and into the charter check-in area, then it's not much of an advertisment for efficiency at BRS either.

Added to that (and rather unfairly) whilst it's great to get from stand to baggage hall at BRS in under five minutes, it does set a rather unreasonable expectation for bags to get from hold to carousel in the same time frame. Mind, I am hopelessly impatient in that respect.

JulietNovemberPapa

29th Mar 2008, 19:06

If you fancy a wee day trip, consider flying, say, BRS-FRA-HAM-BRU (can get on 143, AB6, CR2). You can get that from £80 all-in. You could then add BRU-BRS (AR8).

Bristol based Taffy

29th Mar 2008, 20:37

Yeh see your point B.T.:ok:

One would 'hope' Bristols' management see the problems sooner and act on them.

Although the thought of 15,000+ bags been held up at Bristol would focus the mind a little :E

Enjoy your first flight with LH

Bristol_Traveller

29th Mar 2008, 20:42

If you fancy a wee day trip, consider flying, say, BRS-FRA-HAM-BRU (can get on 143, AB6, CR2). You can get that from £80 all-in. You could then add BRU-BRS (AR8).

Wow. I'm always up for a value-for-money mileage run.

What fare basis is that worked out on, as I'm drawing a blank on any LH issued fares from FRA-BRU, and working it out sector by sector is pushing it up a fair bit? The lowest published BRS-HAM LH fare (UABASE) is £69 plus taxes (based on a mileage limit of 675, so routing through FRA is pushing it a bit as that's 759 miles, but lufthansa's website seems to ignore that, so hey....).

JulietNovemberPapa

30th Mar 2008, 09:53

What fare basis is that worked out on, as I'm drawing a blank on any LH issued fares from FRA-BRU, and working it out sector by sector is pushing it up a fair bit?

Dunno. But I've found BRS-FRA-HAM-BRU from about £80. Check CheapTickets.com (it's an American site, so it prices in US$). Play around with the dates. I have found fares from that amount on several occasions. Let's hope they haven't increased, for at that amount they represent excellent value.

Bristol_Traveller

30th Mar 2008, 09:54

Good morning from the Cabot lounge,

LH is going great so far - big branded ticket office and three check-in desks (one C, two Y). Checkin was fine, with an LH bod helping with the finer points of the new system.

Plenty of people in suits with Visitor passes, who look happy enough with things.

The 737 is on Stand 4, next to CO's 757 - annoyingly can't find an angle to get both in shot at the same time. Boarding in 30 mins....

Lounge team have the *A manual, so didn't have any problem with me and my non *G guest. Will check on way out if they also accept BD and SK*G, and LH*S.

All great so far!

OltonPete

30th Mar 2008, 10:24

Yes just had a look on standflash & D-ABEA is parked next to the CO 757
with a couple of easy's & one FR as well.

Hopefully this will be a good service and if successful maybe Munich
and Dusseldorf in a year or two?

Also if Bristol is a success maybe they will look at NCL-FRA, as they
did promise more flying from the UK regions.

Another LH bonus is that there is always a chance (like today) of aircraft upgrades like BHX sees on a weekly basis on the evening Frankfurt, a very flexible airline.

Bristol_Traveller

Will be interested to know the load and approximate split.

LEEDS APPROACH

30th Mar 2008, 11:52

Hi,

simple question Bristol posters - how will this man benefit LBIA and how much of a loss is it to Bristol?

Regards,

Leeds App.

Bristol_Traveller

30th Mar 2008, 17:21

Bristol_Traveller

Will be interested to know the load and approximate split

I would guess at about 65% load in Y, and 1 person in C (who was connecting to a LH flight to the US also in C).

I think that's fair for a start. I wouldn't fly intra-Europe in C (with some mileage run exceptions!). But some of the long-haul biz deals are very good, so I might end up further forward now and then.

I had a chat with a few of the LH people. I think they would have liked a stronger start, but I did point out some of the fare quirks on the website.

Got a brilliant souvenir, which I'll take a photo of.

(P.S. The secret to being the first person to be on a first flight is to be a U.M. I don't think the poor boy being led by the hand had a clue what all the hoopla was for....)

BRS_flyer

30th Mar 2008, 17:49

Sure the LH route will see higher LF's in time, specially if the fare issues resolve themselves. I am on a day trip to FRA tomorrow on the so will see then for myself.

R.E. Tony Hallwood:

He has done good things for BRS's route development in his time here (CO, LH and continuing EZY and FCA expansion) but did also loose BA/BE (although not a great loss IMO).

I'm sure he will do good things for LBA but the rest of our route development team is strong so i'm sure they will be fine.

My only critisism of Tony is that he probably has pushed too many pax through the terminal in the phase before the expanded search comb is open. Management are now seriously looking at this now with a sixth contingency xray and amd istalled, staff from all areas of BIA offered overtime in passenger preperation ("just your boarding cards please") and many senior managers (including PK himself) in the terminal doing this at peak times.

JulietNovemberPapa

30th Mar 2008, 18:42

I read that LH used the 733 on BRS-FRA today. Is that correct?

danielhobbs

30th Mar 2008, 19:38

Yes. The morning aircraft was 733 D-ABEK, and the evening rotation, a Eurowings RJ D-AEWE

Bristol_Traveller

30th Mar 2008, 21:47

Just arrived in from FRA (early... back in the front door at the published landing time), and it was a 737 again this evening, so that's nice for everyone on the 06:25 out to FRA tomorrow morning.

10 rows of business class. Not many occupants. (33pax I think I counted).

It's been a rather excellent day, and LH have just done a few little things for passengers to make it very memorable.

Let's hope that people are alert enough to see the opportunities for flying from BRS -> The World, rather than thinking it's just another FRA flight.

Goldilocks95

30th Mar 2008, 23:21

apparently the tug pusjing back the luthansa caught fire on the first flight this morning.....still only made it 5 minutes late!

Bristol_Traveller

31st Mar 2008, 06:58

Ah, that would explain the arrival of the Airside Safety Team in their Landrovers.... although the fire engines stayed at a discrete distance on the other side of the runway. And obviously the FR captain saw his chance to get on stand.

Looks like this morning's 06:50 got off on time.

Marco491

31st Mar 2008, 14:40

Nice to hear FRA has got off to a good start, I will be heading over to BRS on Thursday returning Sunday. A couple of hours drive down to the real Westcountry thereafter :), but hey, beggars can't be choosers. And farewell LHR, at last, hopefully forever.

My wife works for *A and the overpriced fare combinations have been an issue for a long time ("they never learn"). I hope they get it sorted out and the LFs start to rise (despite the relative comfort for the rest of us on a half-empty plane). I always had my doubts about three a day, wouldn't be surprised if that were pared down again come the winter schedules.

Just one question: isn't it technically a Eurowings flight? We are talking LH, and I know Eurowings don't have 73s so I suppose at the moment it just looks and feels like LH. Do you get food? Ok, so that was two questions.

Standard Noise

31st Mar 2008, 21:29

Ah, 'the real Westcountry', where everyone has six toes and 'Bob's your uncle' takes on a whole new meaning.:E

Bristol_Traveller

31st Mar 2008, 21:47

isn't it technically a Eurowings flight? We are talking LH, and I know Eurowings don't have 73s so I suppose at the moment it just looks and feels like LH. Do you get food?

It is usually scheduled to be an EW BAe 146-200. However, both the first flight, and the last flight back from FRA to BRS were operated by an LH 737-300. Maybe we just got lucky?

Food -standard fare. The LH Roll (ham on this trip) and a Choccy bar. Cold tray meal in C.

andy_smith89uk

1st Apr 2008, 00:08

Hi there - does anyone know who operates the Lourdes charter flights which have been going out from BRS for the past few weekends?

QS 123 LOURDES 1455 1532 Landed AT 15:35

I mean the operator, not the airline - might be interested in this next Spring but don't know who to contact! Tried the "contact us" of BRS web-site with no joy, but I'd expect to get more sense on here anyway!!

JulietNovemberPapa

1st Apr 2008, 06:28

It is usually scheduled to be an EW BAe 146-200.

Actually, it's scheduled to be by EW 143, not 142.

However, both the first flight, and the last flight back from FRA to BRS were operated by an LH 737-300. Maybe we just got lucky?

Yeah, just one-offs.

BRS_flyer

1st Apr 2008, 08:02

Had a sucessful day in FRA yesterday, 737 on the way out and eurowings 143 on the return.

Andy:

The LDE flights are organised by a tour operator that specialises in faith based travel. Can't remember the name off the top of my head but if I do find out i will let you know. As far as I can see having osberved the flights departing, they are made up mostly of large groups (who all seem to know each other as well) so am not sure how easy it would be to get smaller numbers of seats??

WATABENCH

1st Apr 2008, 19:55

TUI Group (First Choice and Thomson) releasing their 2009 summer programmes on 17th of this month, could be intresting, would be nice to see an increase in flights after this years merger and loss of the TOM 757 from next month.
I'm also sure there would be enough demand for 2 SSH per week from TUI, TOM and FCA both have filled their SSH's, also be intresting to see what they're doing with summer longhaul, pretty sure SFB will stay but again as with POP and VRA, CUN isn't selling as well as hoped.
Banjul has been dropped by FCA for next winter.
I'm pretty sure the TCook group will release there summer 09 programme about the same time, would be nice to see an increase with them as well, according to the TCook thread there will be 2 based TCX 320's in BRS for summer 08, thats good news, wasnt aware of that one I must admit(fallen behind a tad with all the goings on), only 1 TCX based in CWL, so lose TOM 757 but gain TCX 320, not too bad then.

andy_smith89uk

1st Apr 2008, 21:32

> The LDE flights are organised by a tour operator that
> specialises in faith based travel. Can't remember the
> name off the top of my head but if I do find out i will
> let you know.
>

Many thanks!

Bristol based Taffy

1st Apr 2008, 21:43

For that travel up the M4 and pop into T5, they do a good line in "faith based travel".

:E:E:E

wasaspacecadet

2nd Apr 2008, 10:04

The airport website shows a number of arriving flights have diverted to Birmingham, Exeter and Plymouth - while others are fine. What's occurring?

SpaceCadet (Bristolian-in-exile)

Bristol based Taffy

2nd Apr 2008, 10:10

Likewise anyone on the 'inside' able to offer answers as I'm on the afternoon LH to FRA :uhoh: then connecting to Athens :sad:

Flitefone

2nd Apr 2008, 11:56

Allmetsat Always a good place to check airfield wx status, low cloud and fog affecting the channel islands, Newquay

http://www.allmetsat.com/us/metar-taf/united-kingdom-ireland.php?icao=EGGD, Bristol...

WATABENCH

2nd Apr 2008, 12:18

Intresting that none diverted to CWL? FR/KL/LH all to BHX, WOW to PLH, FCA to EMA, T3 to EXT and AF to LHR. :confused:

MerchantVenturer

2nd Apr 2008, 19:18

The airport website shows a number of arriving flights have diverted to Birmingham, Exeter and Plymouth - while others are fine. What's occurring?

The fog/mist seems to have affected the airport from around 0800 until about 1500.

According to the BRS arrivals website, whilst aircraft were diverting to the airports you mention ten easyJets and the CO from EWR did land, although one easyJet did divert to EXT.

I suppose it is a fair assumption that Cat III was being utilised and I understand the turbo-props and regional jets may not have the required equipment and these made up the bulk of the aircraft that diverted.

However, around the time when easyJets were landing two Ryanair inbounds went to BHX.

I was at the airport meeting someone just before Christmas when it was afflicted by the sort of weather we had today. On that occasion easyJet flights were landing in the fairly thick mist/fog but two Ryanair inbounds diverted to CWL (and several smaller aircraft from other airlines also diverted to other airports).

27 (the Cat III-equipped one) was the 'live' runway then and today (from the sounds I heard overhead when in the Chew Valley this morning).

Does anyone know why the Ryanair aircraft diverted when the easyJets were landing either side of the FR scheduled arrival times - both today and on the earlier occasion I quoted?

I presume the FR aircraft are Cat III-equipped. Perhaps it just happens that today and just before Christmas the flight crews involved were not currently qualified for Cat III landings.

As a passenger who uses BRS quite regularly it would be good to know that FR can take advantage of the Cat III and that the occasions I have highlighted were the exception rather than the rule.

flyerboy

2nd Apr 2008, 19:41

I was not at work today but think the RVRs were at 150m or below.This would have been alright for 319s & 757s as they only need 75m but the other jets need 175m or 200m.The Dash 8s need about 325m for CAT II & J41 700m for CAT I.
If I remember correctly the day in December you mention the problems arose because the wind meant 09 was the runway in use but some aircraft could not land with the tailwind component of about 7-10 knots

MerchantVenturer

2nd Apr 2008, 21:17

Many thanks, flyerboy.

I had read the airport's description of its Category IIIb ILS in the section of its website titled Runway Operations and Flightpaths, where it gives the minimum horizontal distance of 75 metres and assumed, obviously wrongly, that this applied to all suitably-equipped aircraft, with appropriately qualified flight crew of course.

Goldilocks95

2nd Apr 2008, 21:47

unsure exactly what happened bt i was working today. something to do with the runway lights,and then had to get a generator up and running meant the ruway was shut for about 30-45 minutes around 9.30Z. The inbound Glasgow held overhead for about 45 mins-in which time 3 other aircraft diverted. It didnt helpn that also the fact that the visability was horrendous!!!!! I think between that time and 12ish everything except the ezys diverted! But it got a lot worse before it got better. Fingers crossed its not foggy tomorow but i dont think we will be lucky.

wasaspacecadet

3rd Apr 2008, 11:26

Thanks for the insights chaps - I should've realised that Lulsgate is often affected by poor visibility. Why I didn't think to ask my Dad if it was foggy in Bristle, I'll never know...

Spacey

iwak

4th Apr 2008, 15:59

anyone know what loads are like on noc and ldy routes lately.

bengolds

4th Apr 2008, 22:10

In reference to why the FR's were diverting and easys landing the other morning. We (ryanair) are only equiped to CatIIIa so need at least 200m RVR to land, i think the easys are certified to CatIIIb so as someone said, can get in with RVRs down to 75m.

Bristol_Traveller

5th Apr 2008, 19:20

Latest information on LH fares to/from BRS.

Apparently each territory needs to load its own fare basis for flights to BRS. It would appear that KWI (for instance) hadn't done so, hence the absence of anything other than MPM Y/C fares for the route. (And horribly scary prices for flights to BRS).

I'm told that a reminder has gone out, and I've heard that the ex-US fares are loaded fine, and the rest should load as part of the nudge. In virtually all cases, the same fares as BHX will apply.

So:
ex-BRS fares - all loaded fine.
to-BRS fares - should be loaded (or loading) by now.

If you're getting a Y fare basis for a flight to/from BRS, PM me, and I'll let you know who at LH to contact who can manually issue you a ticket with the right fare (which you can find by putting BHX in as your origin/destination).

Bristol based Taffy

6th Apr 2008, 08:23

Hi all

Thought I'd input my comments following last Thursdays 'fog' and my experience on the LH flights.

As I'd posted earlier on my concern at the conditions on that Thursday it was interesting that on arrival at BRS for my flight to FRA it was in fact low cloud afflicting the airport and it seemed having driven thru from North Bristol to be very localised. Suppose that's what happens when you build an airport on top of a hill. :E

Unfortunately the previous flight at 11-30 had been cancelled so it didn't seem too promising. However, as those at the airport were aware it started to clear at around 15-30, and the flight was reported as departed FRA. For what ever reason though it arrived some one hour late. Thus making my onward connection 'tight' to say the least.

The aircraft was an 'old c/s' Eurowings and internally it needed some attention :hmm: Pax numbers were appprox 50.

Due to the delay I missed my connection, however LH were extremely efficient in arranging hotel accom plus evening meal :D and onward connnections the next morning.

My return sectors were considerably less stressful, and the return flight to BRS was in a 'newer' BAe146 with the typical LH interior of grey leathers :ok:

However the load factor was an eyewatering 18 :sad:

On a personnal basis I would certainly choose LH again for trips out of BRS and I just hope that they stick with the programme and don't duck out too early due to some dissapointing loads.

BBT

Bristol_Traveller

6th Apr 2008, 08:34

That's a useful trip report, although a bit disappointing that you had to be the person who found out how LH would cope in the event of being fogged out at BRS.

I guess the real upside of flying with a "full service" airline is how they cope when things go off plan, and it sounds like LH did pretty well here. (Compare with the sneers at FR).

I suspect we're going to see a little of a ragbag of aircraft through; LH are supposed to be renewing all their short-haul fleet (including EW) but I guess it will percolate down eventually.

60 on the way out sounds pretty promising. What flight did you take back? 18 isn't brilliant, admittedly, but sometimes its the load factor on the return that makes the outbound worth operating. For example, the 17:30 out is the connecting flight for Asia (hello SIN, PEK and SYD) - and the 09:05 FRA-BRS is the connecting flight back again.

The last FRA-BRS flight really only appears to be relevant for people who have been in FRA for the day?

MUFC_fan

6th Apr 2008, 15:18

If you're getting a Y fare basis for a flight to/from BRS, PM me, and I'll let you know who at LH to contact who can manually issue you a ticket with the right fare (which you can find by putting BHX in as your origin/destination).

So say I wanted to book a flight to Shanghai (PVG) from Bristol (BRS) for next week with LH via FRA. Assume both a BHX and a BRS rotation have an A320 on the morning flight and the BHX had filled 100 seats and the BRS 40 seats. Surely the fare online from BHX that you are comparing to BRS will be much more due to the nearly full a.c?!

If you are refering to the cheapest Y fare for both airports I am excuse me, but I just don't see how the BHX can be the same as the BRS fare.:confused:

Bristol_Traveller

6th Apr 2008, 15:47

Sorry, I probably should have been more careful with my wording. (Interestingly, you've found that PVG has no BRS fares loaded... I'll let LH know).

What I meant to say is that the Fare BASIS to BRS will be (generally) the same as to BHX. So assuming that there are seats available in W, the fare to BRS will be the same as the fare to BHX. And so on. (Your point about relative loads affects which fare buckets are available).

So for the route PVG-BRS, there are no published fares, whereas there are for BHX. This means that flying to BHX you'll get a PVG-BHX fare, but flying to BRS it will offer something truly horrendous (a YRTLH fare) or at best something knocked together from a combination of a PVG-FRA and a FRA-BRS fare. But it will look substantially cheaper to fly to BHX (or LHR) than to BRS.

In the GDS, PVG-BRS returns no fares, whereas PVG-BHX returns:

Fare Basis Op Class Trip Type
WNRX2M LH W Round-Trip 369.00 (GBP)
VNC1Y LH V Round-Trip 430.00 (GBP)
QRC1Y LH Q Round-Trip 552.00 (GBP)
HNC1Y LH H Round-Trip 688.00 (GBP)
MNC1Y LH M Round-Trip 846.00 (GBP)
BRFB1Y LH B Round-Trip 1004.00 (GBP)
BRFA1Y LH B Round-Trip 1183.00 (GBP)
YRF1Y LH Y Round-Trip 1398.00 (GBP)
ZRC1Y LH Z Round-Trip 2043.00 (GBP)
DRF1Y LH D Round-Trip 2330.00 (GBP)
CRF1Y LH C Round-Trip 3011.00 (GBP)
YRTLH LH Y Round-Trip 3310.00 (GBP)
CRTLH LH C Round-Trip 4126.00 (GBP)
FRT LH F Round-Trip 6132.00 (GBP)

If you want to make this booking, PM me and I'll let you know who at LH can book it for you on the basis of a BHX fare. And thanks for posting, because it appears that many parts of the LH empire haven't yet heard of the arrival of BRS on the network...

Update
This is a bit bizarre. I ran a lookup on LH.com, and it wobbled. I ran it again, and it returned the same *fare* as BHX. Went back into the GDS, and it's now showing PVG-BRS fares, but on an MPM basis. This does seem to concurr with my hunch that LH calculate fares as people ask for them....

Bristol based Taffy

6th Apr 2008, 19:14

Hi B.T.

My return trip was on LH4964 dept FRA 21-40 on Saturday 5th April. With regard to missing connections - what didn't help was that LH changed timings as of 1st April so the original one hour decreased to 45 minutes or so, making the best connections tight.

Still the reactions of the LH team at FRA suggested that it was something they were well versed in, and it was a simple action of rebooking next morning flight and providing a hotel voucher.

As I said previously it certainly wouldn't stop me using LH in future although the complications of their booking engine would probably result in my booking via travel agent or internet.

I seriously believe if LH work at these minor issues it could provide them with a profitable level of income and give KL a run for their money in the hub service out of BRS.

:D:D

MerchantVenturer

7th Apr 2008, 20:54

The late inbound LH last night and early outbound this morning were cancelled according to the airport web board – not the best of starts with weather disruption last week as well.

I was reading the CWL message board and noticed a poster who seems reluctantly to have to use BRS describe the airport thus:

I am fed up at having to fly from that short undulating air strip in the middle of the countryside called Bristol...................................... the airport does not have the feel of space and professionalism you have at CWL.

I couldn’t help smiling because he makes the place sound like a grass airstrip run by a group of local farmers as a hobby.

I have to come to the defence of our rustic aerodrome though. I have never doubted the professionalism at BRS and my experience is also of a mainly friendly and helpful environment. I’ve been travelling in and out of the place as a passenger regularly for thirty years, in the early days just a couple of times a year or so on holiday charters, and have used it hundreds of times. I’ve never experienced a rejected take-off or a go-around there and been diverted only once.

I empathise with his comments regarding space. The terminal, although only eight years old, is congested at certain times of the day reflecting the phenomenal growth since it opened . The airport wants to nearly double the terminal size but is having to tread carefully because of an army of anti-expansionists and a wary local authority.

The recurring themes on the CWL board are that it’s high time that Cardiff had routes, airlines and destinations rivalling Bristol and that BRS is sustained largely by an army of Welsh travellers, the ‘evidence’ seemingly being that the place is awash daily with Welsh accents.

I know figures can be made to mean pretty much anything but short of going to BRS every day and asking everyone their origin I have to rely on what statistics are available.

The BRS master plan reckons 10.6% of its travellers are South Wales-based whereas the CWL master plan puts the figure at 12%. The problem is that both sets of figures are several years old.

Taking the CWL figure as being more accurate (it might not be but at least it’s a starting point) this would mean an average daily figure of 2,000 people from South Wales using BRS, so it is not surprising that Welsh accents are in abundance, not that every South Wales passenger has a local accent or that every Welsh accent indicates someone domiciled in the Principality. There are many such people living in the Greater Bristol region.

One has to ask why airlines have gone to an airport stuck on a hill with indifferent weather, a short runway, awkward road communications, no rail link and little space to expand in preference to an airport across the estuary that suffers far less from most of these disadvantages.

It can’t be just a case of one airport having more effective management or offering terms to carriers that are so good that they can’t refuse.

Could it be that although BRS does need some outside help (ie passengers originating from beyond its core catchment area) to make some routes viable CWL, with its smaller core catchment, would need even more outside help and that, in general, airlines recognise this and, until now at least, have regarded BRS as the better bet?

Perhaps the type of person in the BRS catchment area is also a great advantage. Apart from being near a major business centre, the airport hinterland is full of well-off older people with time to spare, as Barbara Cassini put it when setting out some of the reasons why Go opted for Bristol as its second base. On the other hand, South Wales residents have a lower propensity to fly – one of the lowest of any UK region.

The CWL master plan acknowledges it will have to increase markedly the number of passengers coming from outside the Principality if it is to reach its 5 million passengers a year projection by 2015, and points to the Bristol city region and parts of the South Midlands as the most likely sources of this extra traffic.

It’s making a start with Flybe increasing its presence and a hope that bmibaby will do likewise.

Undoubtedly CWL’s best chance will be if the planners ultimately reject BRS expansion plan applications when they are submitted. If this does happen, and it cannot be ruled out, what would be the future for an airport that might find itself physically unable to handle more than, say, 7-8 million passengers a year?

Sorry this is so long but in a quiet period for BRS I thought it would be a chance to reflect on how the future might look. Anyone else got any views on any of this?

cyfarthfa

7th Apr 2008, 21:41

Isnt it time all this rivalry between BRS & CWL was buried once and for all.
Put simply the battle was lost as long ago as the late 1980's a time when both airports were achieving approx 800K pax per annum. Brymon arrived in BRS and the airport started to pull ahead. A very switched on MD at BRS at that time drove the business hard and got new airlines and routes when the best CWL ,who were then owned by a committee of three county councils, could do was Manx airlines with J31's. When GO arrived at BRS the gap started to widen rapidly. With the much larger catchment area, the south west has a population of approx 5 million against approx 2 Million in south Wales it is obvious that any airline looking at the south west segment of the UK for developmet was going to favour BRS.
A huge opportunity was lost when the proposed Severnside airport plan was abandoned. It would have been idealy sited to serve both south Wales and the south west, slap bang on the motorway network and alongside the main London south Wales rail line. Had it gone ahead, we would now have a major international airport to rival BHX. AS Merchant Venturer says BRS could well be approaching capacity and new route developments may well be at CWL where there ample room for future expansion.

bristolflyer

8th Apr 2008, 09:18

MV. There has been rapid expansion over the last few years and this cannot be sustained. The airport will have to enter a phase of consolidation. It is hard to see what destinations are now missing, save for a couple of German cities. The short runway will hinder any long-haul expansion and the 787 is still a long way off. Emirates is a non-starter because of the runway, their current aircraft and the fact the airport now has three full service airlines connecting to European hubs. Passenger numbers are unlikely to support a fourth transit hub in Dubai and the volume for point to point will not fill a wide-bodied jet. There are unlikely to be further American routes from full service airlines, I saw that Delta pulled a proposed EDI-ATL route because of rising fuel costs. It would be interesting if Ryanair chose Bristol as one base for it's mooted UK-US operation. Passenger expansion will come from larger aircraft on existing routes. The master plan planning application is going to be a long process because the anti lobby will fight. The airport has seen this and has very shrewdly developed the building itself with the new security area and taking Burger King air-side. This will create more space without the need for planning. The walkway is proposed as permitted development for the same reason. The current passenger throughput was expected to be reached in 2009-2010. The current developments will probably allow the airport to handle up to 9 million without the need for extension. If need arose the void above the main check in area could be developed without planning, although this would not be without logistical problems! Given that the economic cycle is going to enter a downturn and the introduction of new routes will be less frequent this current development will meet the needs of the airport in the short to medium term. Transport links to the airport need to be improved, however hell is likely to freeze over before we see the airport connected to the ring road or the M5. Interestingly it is likely that the surrounding area will be declassified as green-belt and this will lead to office parks galore! I agree that the opportunity for a large regional airport either on the Severn or at Filton was lost a long time ago and with hindsight this would have been the better option. It is the same debate as Heathrow. Do you continue to develop existing facilities or start afresh? It would need public money to start afresh and there isn't any. All in all since the time of Les "Bristol Airport" Wilson the airport management have turned the farm strip into a solid regional airport. I remember an article in the Sunday Times about 20 years ago rating all region airports and Bristol was bottom. The Times printed a cartoon with confused farmers pointing at a plane! You would have a very different picture now.

Bristol based Taffy

8th Apr 2008, 16:40

As a long time civil aviation 'anorak' and being Welsh, I too have been amazed at the rise of BRS from it's early days in the 70's with Courtline 1-11's together with the somewhat rarer Dan-Air 727's (I flew on one to Corfu from BRS!!), and then subsequently sat at what at the time was a considerably larger and better equiped airport whilst plane spotting across the bridge only to be faced with one or two movements per day!! :(
Usually Cambrian Viscounts until BA pulled the plug.

Yes we(CWL) got Laker Dc-10's plus the Wardair & CPAir 747 Transatlantic flights but despite it's apparent ability to cope with said traffic it produced no long term gains across the board. The final nail was the GO decision.

I agree with bristolflyer that given the pesent economics downturn and the rise of the tree huggers, the likely large scale expansions of either airport will be hard to see, and yes expansion will come about more in the form of larger aircraft on certain routes.

The replacements of the soon to be retired F70's of KLM will be interesting?

CWL will continue to underperform relative to BRS but that's all down to historical activities, and I for one don't begrudge BRS for one moment.

Personally if I was the airport management I'd be looking at everyway I could to boost the airports capacity and runway length without the need for any planning permission.

If only to kick the tree huggers were it hurts :eek:

LGS6753

8th Apr 2008, 19:51

I always enjoy reading MV's sensible, well-researched and well written posts:ok:

It has always been inevitable to me that Bristol would prosper in comparison to Cardiff due to their respective catchment areas. Bristol is a wealthy city, with many employed in financial services, the media and professions. It is surrounded by wealthy counties (Gloucestershire, Somerset and Wiltshire) where affluence leads to a higher propensity to travel than the average. These are counties that attract the affluent retired, again with a high propensity to travel.

Compare with Cardiff, which although the seat of Government in Wales, is in an economically depressed region. A cursory look at the average size and standard of housing unit will confirm this apparent generalization.

Finally, Cardiff Airport is disadvantaged by its geographical location. It is some 10 miles south-west of the City centre - away from centres of population by the coast. Fine from a noise point of view, but harder for surface access. I would imagine the travel time from a large town like Newport would be similar to CWL and BRS.

One sympathises with those who want CWL to prosper, but the reality is that the demographics favour Bristol. And that's why the airlines choose it over CWL.

WATABENCH

8th Apr 2008, 21:32

Nothing official yet, but have had it on good grounds that FCA longhaul summer 2009 will be CUN/POP/SFB, unsure of rotations at the mo, my guess would be weekly SFB and fortnightly CUN and POP on opposite weeks.
Glad to see FCA sticking with it, as MV said once it takes a while for routes like these to become established in the public mind, so if this info is true its great news for BRS considering the consolidation of certain areas of the new TUI business, Thomson hols have now started sharing on FCA longhaul flights(the only tour op able too) so I wander if the BRS flights will go in the Thomson tropical/florida brochures as well? would help sell the routes(fingers crossed).
Also been told they have no plans for longhaul down the road in EXT or across the bridge in CWL. :ok:

Bristol based Taffy

8th Apr 2008, 21:48

This is aimed towards the more technical forum members.:rolleyes:

Would the building of the 'starter' strip at the beginning of 09 :-

1. Interfere with the Cat 3 lighting?

2. Require planning permission?

3. Provide enough additional length to be 'worth it'?

It just seems that it's 'wasted space', although as in the BA777 at LHR it comes in handy sometimes.

BBT:ok:

WATABENCH

8th Apr 2008, 22:04

I wasnt aware of a starter strip going on 09, Cat 3 is only on 027, believe that due to the way the land falls at 09 they are unable to install/operate Cat 3 on there, however i agree there is a fair bit of land between the end of runway and perimeter at 09 which has been commented on before.
There is a plan in the pipeline(although years off) to knock down the old terminal and re locate the offices to a new buliding in order to put a larger turning circle in and bring the threshold back, although how this effects the landing system at 027 end I wouldnt have a clue, cant imagine it would.
MV will give you all the answers with regard to the BRS master plan, however with regard to performance of long haul operations you would prob need an answer from a pilot....any takers? BHX had a starter strip added didnt they? seems to work well there i guess!
Good question though Taffy :8

crackling jet

9th Apr 2008, 00:10

Have i missed something, where did the 'starter strip' come from ?, and what is the latest with the development ( ie walkway, ramp extension and the planning application )

bristolflyer

9th Apr 2008, 08:06

There is currently no plan to extend the runway up to 2015. The Government White Paper on regional aviation indicates that the present terminal, without modification, can handle 8.5 million passengers. The White Paper envisaged once this limit had been passed a new terminal and runway extension would be required. This is not a view shared by the airport. Their view is that there is limited scope for long-haul destinations up to 2015. Dubai was the most likely new destination at the time of the Master Plan. The 787 is seen as the answer to the runway restriction because of that aircraft's improved takeoff performance, however the taxiway parallel to the golf course would have to be widened. The issue of extension was looked at in the Mater Plan. A start strip would mean an extra 389m on 27, but only 150m on 09. The maximum extension keeping the ILS inside the boundary is 140m, beyond this length the ILS has to go on the common. The maximum full extension is roughly 400m. This would go way out onto the common and involve the purchase of property rendered uninhabitable. A 400m extension would allow for destinations such as Chicago, the Caribbean and Atlanta to be served on stop. It adds about 2000km to the range of a 757 and 1000km to a 767. An extension of any kind falls outside of permitted or operational development and would require full planning permission. In addition Felton Common is a protected environmental habitat! I think the master plan is now largely irrelevant. The new proposed walkway was not in the plan and airport operations have changed considerably since it's drafting, for example BA has now left and Ryanair is in. Airbridges were proposed in the master plan and they are not contained in the plan for the walkway, because they are luxuries not required by the lo-co's. The more recent developments suggest larger lo-cost aircraft will be the mainstay of movements. Look at Luton were Kehoe came from. This probably gives a good pointer as to the direction of development.

WATABENCH

9th Apr 2008, 10:03

That explains all that then, thanks bristol flyer. I cant remember hearing anything about a starter strip either, only the possibility of larger turning circle. :confused:

bristolflyer

9th Apr 2008, 15:25

Watabench, You are correct about an enlarged taxiway/holding area. This was part of the plan. The current layout of the taxiway means that at peak times access to the Eastern apron can be a problem. If the runway is extended to the current limit or even just 140m the A38 has to either be moved, again, or dropped into a tunnel. Both First Choice and Continental have ordered the 787. The current First Choice long-haul routes are a precursor to the 787 coming to Bristol and flying direct rather than via MAN. This assumes the planned performance is realized after testing. Boeing have now put the delivery back by 18 months and the plane has yet to fly.

Bristol based Taffy

9th Apr 2008, 16:03

Ok my apologies to everyone, I meant 27 :8.

The reason for the question was the 'surplus' area immediately before runway 027 and whether it could be utilised WITHOUT planning permission.

I'd forgotten that the ils instrumentation would also need to be moved even further - hence onto the common!!:*

I realise that from a landing distance it wouldn't make a great deal of difference. It was whether or not it was a feasible option for an increased take off distance?

i'm also aware that at least part of the old terminal would need to be flattened

MerchantVenturer

15th Apr 2008, 19:24

Today’s BBC Bristol early evening news programme led with a story concerning Bristol Airport. Anyone who is interested can view the item on the BBC Bristol ‘Points West’ web page.

It was reported that new DfT regulations (following the Glasgow Airport terrorist attack) mean that the forecourt at the front of Bristol Airport will have to close permanently for vehicles.

Paul Kehoe, the airport CEO, was interviewed on the site and said that it will mean a new road having to be built on stilts across the main car parking area. The cost, to be born by the airport shareholders (as the CEO put it), is said to be many millions of pounds, but the timescale is not known.

Planning wasn’t mentioned so I assume this would be permitted development under the Town and Country Planning Order 1995. If not, the airport will have something else to put before planners and further run the gauntlet of the anti-expansionists, many of whom are really airport opponents plain and simple who would like to see it shut down.

The BBC reporter took the opportunity to link the story with BRS’s multi-million pound security area revamp which it was said will now be completed in July. Several outbound passengers were interviewed who all seemed remarkably content with their security experience today, comparing it most favourably with London airports, although it has to be said they were not passing through BRS at a peak period.

Another item in the news this week concerns a police and local authority check on the vehicles, mainly minibuses, taking passengers to and from the unofficial car parks in the area. Apparently one vehicle was given a prohibition order because of defects, and insurance and driving licence irregularities were found with some others.

WATABENCH

15th Apr 2008, 20:09

www.uk-airport-news.info/bristol-airport-news-110408.htm

Brilliant story, absolute comedy....ahh youngens nowadays!

Bristol based Taffy

15th Apr 2008, 20:39

Not wishing to sound somewhat gobsmaked yet almost :ugh::ugh::ugh:!!!

Do the DfT live in the real world or as it seems thier own REACTIVE WORLD!!:mad: Well we all know the answer to that

We now not only have somewhat impressive security set ups within the confines of the buildings, but they also wish us to totally alter road layouts AFTER an incident on the 'chance' that it 'might' happen again :{

Just what in God's name would they come up with if an incident were to occur outside the boundary fence approx 5 miles away .....if you know what I mean :\

TOTAL EXCLUSION ZONES FOR ALL LOCALS...can't be too careful

:ugh::ugh::ugh:

MerchantVenturer

15th Apr 2008, 21:28

BbT,

I have to admit that when I first saw the item I thought there might have been a mix-up at the Beeb and it should have been transmitted on the first of this month.

Presumably other airports will be affected but they may have easier solutions than the land-strapped BRS.

Clearly this cannot be put into operation at BRS for a year or two at the very earliest so if the threat is that serious what happens in the meantime?

If they can carry on for the next, say, two years as they are now why not the next ten or twenty or thirty...........................?

Anyone who is familiar with the airport boundary will be aware there are other ways of encroaching onto the airport land that don't involve barging in through the front door.

So your point about exclusion zones might not be that far-fetched the way things are going. :rolleyes:

Bristol based Taffy

15th Apr 2008, 22:02

What really annoys me is the totally one sided discussions that seem to take place regarding 'terrorism' and it's threats, what with that and the infamous climate change we might just as well close the airport down. Stop using the infernal combustion engine and return to the horse and cart :*

Anyone trying to ask simple questions as to the actual need for such changes in our activities in the 'war against terror'...Strange this 'war' only began AFTER 9/11!!! :ugh:
Is regarded as somewhat of a danger to civilised society :E

Sorry MV long day at the 'coal face' but things like this really bring out the worst in me. :ok:

Bristol_Traveller

16th Apr 2008, 03:32

Paul Kehoe, the airport CEO, was interviewed on the site and said that it will mean a new road having to be built on stilts across the main car parking area. The cost, to be born by the airport shareholders (as the CEO put it), is said to be many millions of pounds, but the timescale is not known.

Mmm. Actually, I think he means that it will be "funded" by the airport shareholders, but of course, the cost will be "borne" by the airlines using the airport and the passengers that fly on then.

I deal with another Macquarie infrastructure company, and I can tell you that they rub their hands with glee at spending as much as they possibly can in building new infrastructure. Infrastructure expenditure gets capitalised, and the more they spend, the more money they get back from it (typically they charge it back to the business on 8-10% margin). That allows them to put up the fees for using the airport using the the DfT decision as justification. And, of course, there's no lack of demand for Bristol, so chances are they'll get away with above inflation increases, etc.

Mac intensely dislike spending money on operations, which simply hit the bottom line.

I would very much doubt that Bristol (or indeed the Ferroval owned BAA) put up much of a protest at "having" to spend so much money on new infrastructure. Maybe the airlines and passengers should point out to the DfT that their irrational decisions come back to travellers in the form of higher airport taxes?