View Full Version : Zeal320 Ltd.
There appears to be a few Zeal Kids in here, so just wondering what everyone's thoughts are on the current issues that are plaguing our workplaces at the moment!
Some topic starters, if you will...
~High turnover, and managements attitude that is not at all a problem.
~The seemingly automatic promotion after 12 months of very undesireable FA's to ISM
~Base Management at AKL particularily...
~ISM's not being accepted for LH secondments, and will FA's even be accepted, or is it just a pretty promise to keep us happy?
PARTICULARILY INTERESTED IN THE OPINIONS OF ANY TECHIES!!!
Ive pretty much been broken by the way we're treated at Zeal. Rob is confident that he is creating a group which is "Quick and Nimble", yet the Shorthaul Strategy is still not complete, 2 years later, and that is at the detriment of crew morale, which in turn affects our Passengers. It appears to me that our middle management have no idea where theyre at. They love having @airnz.co.nz email addresses, but seem to weary of any outside assistance. The way a certain base manager feels about and treats Longhaul Crew, and indeed the Shorthaul crew who transfered over, is a testiment to this.
A Longhaul FA on pprue recently made very valid comments in regards to 20 year old ISM's being prettier only than their Purser colleagues at Shorthaul. Her remarks were of course much better worded,but they were entirely true. 150 passengers, a $40million aircraft, 3 flight attendants - all under the care of people who, for example, cant show up for work sober, because Saturday night is K Rd night... Im sure we all know examples of people who simply should not be Service Managers. And Im also sure we all know examples of the few remaining brilliant service managers, who the company simply just do not want to keep. The opportunity for secondment to longhaul is a huge insult to a group of people who's dedication and proffessionalism have kept this part of the airline in good hands over the past changes. What motivation is there to stay Loyal to Zeal or indeed Air New Zealand. To thank them for hanging in there, through lowered pay, 18 year old trainee's, insulting passengers - by allowing a crew member of 12 months experience the chance at longhaul, is rubbish. Of course, its yet to be seen if the offer is genuine. One would think that Shorthaul crew who have waited longer, and have longer service would surely be seconded first. God help the first Zeal hostey who does get to LH though - they will be eaten alive!
Im not going to get into the AKL BM issue just yet, as I will get carried away!
Fairly all-over-the-place post, but it was just intended as a topic starter, and I got carried away :uhoh:
In short - things need to change, and we all know that. But how?! The culture that they have allowed to develop at Zeal is one of negativity and bitching - the upside for the company is that while we're bitching in our galleys we're not actively doing anything to combat the issues.
Without being negative, Zeal is a joke! I feel sorry for the zeal crew as they work really hard but are treated poorly with horrible money and benefits. Ralphy was great for ANZ as he really did care about us as crew and as a company in general, but as for Rob, well lets just say he is better at flirting with the female crew - not running an airline!
I don't unerstand why zealers don't apply for jetconnect, as from what I hear the money, perks and flying duties have been greatly improved. I could be wrong though but it might be a better option?
Good luck to all you zealers :)
ANZzeal123
3rd Jul 2007, 05:48
Im very disappointed that we have employed people like you ...The AKL management is the best out of all bases ,they do a fantastic job and it will be very sad when we lose our beloved base manager .There is nothing wrong with young ISM the ones I no are exceptional and frankly alot better to work with than the old ones as they have a fresh take on things and are fun people ..I seriously think you should consider your employment options and stop being one of the crew that makes zeal a sad place to work.
This is exatly the "head-in-the-sand" attitude that Zeal management love their crew to have...
Think for example, of the high turnover caused by issues created by the AKL BM. If you feel they do a fantastic job, then you would be amazed at the working conditions other hosteys enjoy at other airlines, or other parts of NZ.
My statement about young ISM's was not a blanket one - agreed there are some very good ones. But there are also some very immature and inappropraite choices as well... I completely agree with your comment regarding the old ISM's who need to re-evaulate their flying, in that it is no longer Freedom...
Its good to hear that your enjoying your time with Zeal, but dont for a second think that the rest of the base shares your enjoyment. Think of the good people that are simply leaving, with no alternative employment, just because they cant handle being treated the way they have been...
koru_kid
18th Jul 2007, 04:22
Latest rumour is that the Freedom cheap labour will be used to crew all 767 longhaul flights, to destroy the pay and conditions longhaul have fought for over the past decades (our contract is up for renegotiation next year).
zealkid
12th Aug 2007, 10:38
urok, im amazed that you can put so much blame on our base manager! she did a wonderful job and im sure will be missed a lot. the high turnover doesnt have anything to do with her, people are leaving because they dont like the contract. as far as im aware she didnt make the contract did she. she doesnt make the rules, she was just doing her job by following them as we all have to. im sure you can apprecitate how hard this is?
yes, we have some major contractual issues to sort out and we work extremely hard, but things are not helped by negative people like you making zeal worse than it is. quite honestly it sounds as if you dont even enjoy the job anymore so why even bother? if you dont like it, leave. its as simple as that.
Concern noted.
I do however assume that youve not flown before, and therefore have no other base managers to compare said BM to...
I have had a long and illustrious career, with zeal, NZ mainline, and other carriers, and I tell you what, it leaves alot to be desired, and Im rather sure any person in a similar position would agree.
Absolutley granted, the majority of zeals problems come from other areas, such as the contract, and the perception of "Freedom" crew amongst our passengers, tech crew, and mainline NZ crew, but still, an unsupportive and double-standard-carrying BM does no end to help the cause.
Youll also find many people are not leaving simply because of contractual issues. I could name at least 5 off the top of my head that have claimed bullying, harrassment, victimisation, or simple personality clash with the manager as reasons.
toolowtoofast
14th Aug 2007, 06:27
I had a very interesting chat with a long term (20 years in the industry) hostie on an ATR the other day.
She has never seen morale and conditions as bad as they are now. She was previously doing trans-tasman and had done long haul, so had a good range of experience. Her opinion was that zeal320 has really tightened the screws on conditions and rates, and it was only going to get tougher. She felt that z320 placed looks above ability.
AND - she was intelligent, slim, and hot :)
6080ft
13th Sep 2007, 11:36
interesting thread I have stumbled across.
one question - urok - if you have had a long and illustrious career as you put it, why the hell are you working for zeal320 now?
where did you mess up?
not so much messed up, more took some very wrong advice...
lollytosser
14th Sep 2007, 07:23
Hi there I am hoping someone may be able to help me as I have a final interview with Air NZ for a temporary position based in Auckland. Can anyone help me with the types of behavourial questions they may ask.
Many thanks
Lolly Tosser
CTOT ON
27th Sep 2007, 06:25
As a First Officer within the Air New Zealand Group, I find some of the comments on this post rather interesting, particularly from current Zeal employees.
The ISM's flying for Zeal at the moment are some of the most professional and experienced flight attendants within the group. To say that they complete a years service and automatically become ISM is just not true. A years flying experience is a requirement not a "right of passage". Surely the company then puts these F/A's through an assessment process, interview etc before promoting them. Secondly, are you sure that these flight attendants only have experience with Zeal? I am aware of at least one ISM at zeal who has extensive experience with Emirates, and know of others who have come from significant international airlines who have returned to Zeal for the NZ lifestyle and "Big Brother" Air NZ has been to "proud" utilise the skills and experience these people have.
I admit, Morale across all areas of the group is not at its peak, but I cannot understand why different groups of employees get their backs up and fight against each other. All flight attendants are professionals, trained to perform an important function ensuring the safe operation of a flight. Why dont you guys act like professionals. I paxed down to WLG a week ago and listened to 3 F/A'S complain at how bad zeal f/As are.
From what I hear, the zeal conditions are not great! But the conditions at L/H and AIr NZ S/H are pretty bloody good. From what I see, so good that there are people there for whom job is getting pretty stale (and it shows), but cant afford to leave!
The reality is the industry has got pretty cut throat in the last short while. Its a fact, that management are going to try and screw everyone down... Engineers... Groundstaffs.....Flight Attendants..... Pilots could be next!!!
Rather than work against each other, were all on the same team, so lets work together, if not to improve the deal for everyone, but to make work bareable, dare i say it an enjoyable place to be.
All the best to all the Flight Attendants, both Zeal and Air NZ, you guys do a great job!
Its a shame the industry is being cheapened here in NZ!!
I have just returned to nz for the lifestyle and want to keep flying but am not sure really what my options are if I want to stay on the jets. It seems the only way you can really re-enter the industry down here is to go with a contract that has been 'cheapened', or not fly at all!
any suggestions??
Wannabe23
27th Oct 2007, 07:26
I start with Zeal in 2 weeks.... Have I made a mistake...as I am totally excited?
Hi everyone,
I'm interested in making an application for Air New Zealand (Zeal),and was wondering if anyone here has any information,working conditions,pay,etc?
Thanks alot!
tartare
17th Dec 2007, 20:04
QFANZ... there is a great deal of truth in what you say.;)
NZ has many good people working for it, who are genuinely trying to do the right thing.
Unfortunately, there's also an extraordinarily ingrained culture of bullying, intimidation and covert character assasination.
It's not helped by people in certain positions of authority who say one thing in public, yet in private will do (and behave) in almost exactly the opposite fashion.
My advice... work for Zeal or NZ by all means. Try and be one of the good ones. But go in with your eyes open, be very careful who you trust... and watch your back.
CTOT ON
18th Dec 2007, 02:07
Tartare, great advice that applies to any aviation organisation from my experience.
To the two of you looking at heading to work for Zeal, Good Luck. You work pretty hard and will fly with some pretty good people from what I have seen.
Hey if after a while you decide its not for you. . . you can always leave! I Dont see many other options for flight attendants looking to wear a Koru.
CTOT
Are these problems more so in the AKL base,Chch or both?
Also...could anybody please tell me about pay rates and hours of work?
Thanks alot!
I did a search and found out the pay rates for first year Cabin Crew in another thread already,although i have just 1 more question...
Could anybody please tell me what the rosters and hours of work like?
Thank U!
Today i was speaking with an Air New Zealand Concierge who told me that Zeal will be axed later this year,and that all existing staff will transfer over to ANZ mainline.
Can anyone please confirm if its true or not?
Tinks66
13th Jan 2008, 03:28
Yes this is true, you can find the information on the Air New Zealand website under news releases - check Freedom's site too. I have read official info on it.
That's not true. Freedom Air is being disbanded, and NZ will be taking over all services using ZEAL 320 Ltd. ZEAL 320 Ltd was set up to operate the A320 fleet on behalf of Freedom and Air NZ. It will just simply cease to operate Freedom flights.
NZ1
I was talking to a ANZ Koru Lounge Concierge.
joeflyguy
28th Mar 2009, 03:54
Is great reading this now in light of what IS happening with the Zeal320 crew and the AOC coming back to Air NZ. Wonder what their real intentions are with the Zeal Air Operating Cert and the crew. I see the airline is now trying to train Concierges and other crew as strike busters. :=
lilflyboy262
3rd Apr 2009, 01:15
I used to have a lot of respect for the Zeal crew... But in light of seeing what is happening at the moment with the way they are carrying on. They are looking like clowns.
Im sorry but Im finding it hard to support you when you are destroying the image of a lot of other AirNZers that have worked hard to build up.
Not only that, but you are showing a total lack of respect towards all the other people in the company who are earning far less than you. Without the allowances.
Everyone is entitled to a pay rise, but you have picked the wrong time, and the wrong way to go about it.
our001
3rd Apr 2009, 23:00
as a pax who has travelled Trans Tasman frequently since 1968, I call tell you how I find it.
Zeal 320 crews - on the whole are pretty slick and personable. Have come across a few who should not be on the aircraft at all.
Flight Attendants who chew gum while pax are boarding, to FA who cannot remember your drink orders. Once I can cope with but 3 times is a bit of a push.
From a cust point of view - don't like Zeal, but understand the commercial reasons for its existence. Cheaper fares do require cheaper costs.
I have crossed the Tasman on NZ (mainline and Zeal) QF (mainline and Jetconnect) Jetstar and Emirates.
Jetstar I would travel on as only the last choice. either seat availablity or price.
Jetconnect - pretty good service
Zeal - see above
Emirates - are the outstanding choice.
Fares are normally the cheapest in the market if you buy them at the right time, the aircraft are great, the service might not be as slick as Zeal (after all the EK crew work different sectors every time they fly - Zeal only do short haul) but the meals and drinks are better, and the staff are friendly and very willing to assist and help.
This comment is ultra interesting as I am jewish (dont travel on my Israeli passport ) so I can fly EK. So a Jew praising an Arab airline - you know that my comments have to be kosher.
Good luck to all at Zeal with your management and contract issues, may they be resolved in a WIN / WIN for both company and crew.
Mazel Tov
Adam
ANZzeal123
27th Apr 2009, 02:36
I am a former Zeal ISM who left for career advancement ,went to another international airline and can I just say that Zeal are honestly the best company to work for,management are very open and approachable ,type of flying is great and the service on offer is fantastic.
Some of the crew they are employing I will admit should not be there i.e young and have no clue as how to provide the service level required and keep standards but on the whole its a great operation.
6080ft
27th Apr 2009, 06:12
anzzeal123.
It must have been a while ago you left - management has all changed. In fact none of the mamagement even work under the Zeal company name. There are alot of unhappy campers. Hense the industrial action. You will also be aware of the poor pay levels, compared to the rest of the company.
ANZzeal123
29th Apr 2009, 02:15
Yes I am aware of the poor pay levels however if people dont like there jobs then leave !!!Dont bring crew moral and passenger experience levels down ,the company and brand which many love so much is suffering due to The EPMU and Zeal crew being un professional ,I do understand that pay is important but it also has to be understood the current global economic situation and its un fair to cause major disruptions when everyone is trying to say aflot including the Air New Zealand group which recently posted a loss last financual qtr,we all know how quickly Ansett folded and it seems as though the EPMU and current Zeal crew dont care if the company was to go under and brand
The crew that are on the original contracts i.e LH,SH/Dom are only on them as they have been working with the company for many years and its unrealistic for the Zeal crew to think they should be on that money its a different world we live in compared to what it was like when those original contracts where put into place
BobHead
29th Apr 2009, 10:29
Being only a Paying customer, with my own money in cattle class, and knowing nothing about Air New Zealand staffing politics I would like to add my findings.
In November/December last year I flew Spain to UK Monarch. UK to USA Virgin Atlantic, USA to Auckland Air NZ, Auckland to Christchurch Air NZ then return Air NZ. Then Auckland to Brisbane Air NZ. Brisbane to Perth Virgin Blue. Perth to Singapore then Singapore to UK Singapore Air. then Ryan Air UK to Spain.
Cabin crew on Air New Zealand all over 30 years old some knocking 60 on all flights. By far the best cabin staff we had on any flight.
Cabin crew on Virgin Blue all well under 30 by far the worst cabin staff we had on any flight.
Now I read all the postings concerning your internal strife but it seems the Oldies are getting it well right. In order of merit I would class cabin staff as:
1. Air NZ:ok: 2. Virgin Atlantic 3. Singapore 4. Monarch 5. Ryan, 6. Virgin Blue
Bob Head
Passenger
TightSlot
29th Apr 2009, 11:11
I've deleted a post today - please note the following:
Somebody posting an alternative view is neither posting nor acting upon "propaganda" - they are simply posting an alternative view.
The use of the phrase "Scabs" is unacceptable on PPRuNe under any circumstances.
Please try and avoid endless recycling of anonymous and therefore unverifiable offers of support from passengers/crew/colleagues etc. to either side in a dispute. They may make you feel warm and cosy inside, but are meaningless to others.
joeflyguy
4th May 2009, 22:19
I am a former Zeal ISM who left for career advancement ,went to another international airline and can I just say that Zeal are honestly the best company to work for,management are very open and approachable
That would not be supported by the attitude of the vast majority of Zeal crew on stike. I know that the managers are the furthest thing from open and approachable.
Mind you I guess they would be if you are quiet and compliant and working on the absurdly low pay they give their staff.
So as a Zeal ISM you left for career advancement. I guess you are now with Air NZ longhaul taking home twice the pay, but begrudge your former colleagues the opportunity of making even a living wage.
kmagyoyo
6th May 2009, 00:01
Good luck to the Zeal staff.
I cross the Tasman two to three times a month as a commuting Pilot and have used Qantas (767s), Jetconnect, Jetstar, Pac Blue, Emirates, LAN and NZ over the last year or so.
Air NZ is about the only Airline I enjoy the trip on these days, the rest are just a means of getting to or from work. I think that says allot for the crew :ok:
I was appalled yesterday to receive photos via email of striking cabin crew with demeaning, lewd signs, one of them reading "I like being screwed but not by Air NZ".
These crew have done themselves no end of damage and any sympathy for their cause will now have evaporated.
Air NZ HR need to raise the bar on their hiring qualifications.
It's the same old story that is happening at airlines across the globe - staff who are hired to a somewhat lower criteria for a lower contract, and initially are more than happy to agree to work on that contract, only to get out online and realise that other, more experienced "legacy" staff are working for more money, and then cry foul.
Zeal was never really highly regarded by their mainline colleagues, and the damage they are now causing the brand is certainly not helping the cause.
At least EMPU will have rocked the boat sufficiently for their first Zeal negotiation.....
Well you don't need to be Albert Einstein to work out what the mainline crew are getting and what you're signing the contract for.
If you don't like it, don't sign it!
6080ft
10th May 2009, 08:36
for gods sake you guys do your homework.
They signed a freedom contract to do freedom budget services. Airnz says bye bye freedom - you girls stay on same contract doing a mixture of the last freedom services and air nz services.
The 3 year freedom farsa contract is now up - hence the negotiations.
The contract might be up but are these crew doing anything different to justify such a pay rise?
They signed on the dotted line to do the job they were assigned. If these crew thought they were worth more they either:
1).didn't sign it.
2).joined mainline Air NZ.
3).went to work for an airline like Emirates where they would earn more.
6080ft
10th May 2009, 08:58
SKOL - as I said go and do your homework.
Yes the work has changed - they have gone from 4 -5 day trips away earning TODS whilst working for a BUDGET airline!
They now predominately do double bangers doing a FULL service including Business class. The same work as other Air nz crew.
Skol you are also no doubt blissfully unaware as to the companies further plans for Zeal 320. Thankfully the Zeal crew have managed to negotiate a clause in their contract limiting them to working on the A320 only, unless both parties negotiate otherwise. I think the long haul crew were momentarily worried that their T's anc C's were about to be undermined! There are certainly a few FSM's and Pursers who have personally visited the picket line to support the Zeal crew and thank them for their tenacity.
If you have any other questions regarding this dispute please ask, as I am pretty close to the front line!
billyt
10th May 2009, 09:04
Well as I see it the only reason Zeal exists is because Air NZ can employ lower paid cabin crew. There is no other reason. I don't agree with all their antics but hope they are successful in raising their terms and conditions to those of Air NZ's mainline cabin crew.
6080ft
10th May 2009, 09:06
One more important point - The Zeal crew originally had a claim in for the same pay as the air nz short haul crew - NOT - long haul crew, as the company would have you believe.
The claim has since been revised in a 'meet you half way' situation.
What has working for a BUDGET airline and extra TOD's got to do with justifying such an extravagant pay rise?
I haven't seen anything on this thread that evokes the slightest sympathy, in fact seeing the photos of plebs lined up with banners that are more aligned with wharfies than cabin crew has done more than enough damage to your cause.
6080ft
10th May 2009, 09:15
SKOL - you just don't get it do you.
Your salary is directly related to how much work you do, with what skills, and what level of service is provided. So they were happy with the pay the got doing a budget service for a budget airline. They were then made to do air nz services, so why should they not be paid the same as the other crew who deliver exactly the same service, in the same uniform, both with a koru on the tail.
I suppose you still believe Parton when he says they are claiming 26%? Oh and they work 30 hour weeks? Yeah right. reads like a tui billboard
I don't blame alot of people out there who don't support the crews claims - of course you wouldn't support them if you are believing all the propoganda out there.
Here is a good read Matt McCarten: Misinformation muddies waters around flight attendant dispute - National - NZ Herald News (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10571510)
I read the McCarten topic in the Sunday Herald.
Maybe I don't get it.
Maybe you can give me the reason why working Air NZ services, wearing the same uniform and having a koru on the tail justifies an extravagant pay rise over and above other staff because I can't think of one.
Many of the Freedom pilots integrated into the mainline earn more than mainline pilots doing the same job but I haven't seen the mainline guys spit the dummy.
I hate to go here, and I know I'll cop it for this, but here goes.
The fact is that during the last SJ contract negotiations, a clause was added allowing SJ crew to work on non-SJ services, therefore opening the door for the Zeal deal to go through. I believe a free suitcase was thrown into the mix as thanks? Doesn't look so good now does it.
If the Zeal crew are so upset that they don't have pay parity, then why don't they apply for or transfer to Mainline? You'd unfortunatley find that most wouldn't make the cut - hardly suprising seeing some of the childish and unprofessional antics that are going on at the moment...
The sad thing is, that no matter how crappy the conditions or how low the pay, there is still an unlimited supply of 18 year olds more than happy to pull on the uniform minus the funky stockings and silly wigs, and Air NZ know that...
Correct urok and believe it or not I do have a modicum of sympathy for their cause but standing in public with signs like 'Air NZ pays sweet F. A.' hasn't done them any good whatsoever. Disciplinary action might be in order over these disgusting banners.
Nothing's perfect but in general Air NZ's an excellent employer.
Pay rises are related to inflation and productivity and of course the degree of bargaining power you have which in this case seems somewhat limited.
McCarten's column wasn't the usual firebrand hard left message but more nice people like Andrew Little and Rob Fyfe should get along not forgetting of course (and I can't work this one out) that Air NZs largest shareholder is the government. What that has to do with it I've got no idea.
Now that these c/crew are mainline maybe they should be grateful for the extra job security.
There are well paid alternatives in the middle east (no tax) but:
don't get fat:
do exactly what you're told:
don't get pregnant:
don't age:
or get fired.
ANZzeal123
11th May 2009, 03:26
Actually no ..I left for an airline outside of NZ..
As one of the previous threads said,during the last contract negotiations the crew where quitr happy and can I say very excited when we where told about the Air Nz services during the course of all the changes we suffered for months then when the cahnge happened I believe but don't quote me on the figure all cabin crew (excluding ISM ) where given a pay rise bringing the base pay up to the high 20s if not 30k plus a guaranted 5-10k in allowances ,now compared with other airlines the work and type of flying the crew are getting payed for is fairly justified ,
The images of striking crew is so said as they are all bringing the name of Air New Zealand into distain and frankly the imaturaity of the crew is being thrust into the spot light and I feel all crew involved should be disciplined ,the airline should then hire crew which no how to deliver proper service and standards and wo can legally drink all over the world ..
joeflyguy
20th May 2009, 08:35
as they are all bringing the name of Air New Zealand into distain
Nah I think Air NZ management are doing just fine on their own.
joeflyguy
3rd Aug 2009, 09:22
Correct urok and believe it or not I do have a modicum of sympathy for their cause but standing in public with signs like 'Air NZ pays sweet F. A.' hasn't done them any good whatsoever. Disciplinary action might be in order over these disgusting banners.
Skol thats absolutely hilarious. You are disgusted with their use of that term, and yet the reason they used it is because that was an advertising campaign being used at the time by Air NZ. Are you really in the indistry in this part of the world as you have an obvious lack of knowledge of it for someone supposedly from NZ.
Nothing's perfect but in general Air NZ's an excellent employer.
I take it you have never worked for them, as no other NZ employer has been before the ERA or Employment Courts with the frequency of Air NZ.
I could go on but . . .