Do Ryanair etc. have ACARS?

[Basil Smallpiece]

Reason I ask is that Zurich Information for example which should primarily be a light aircraft VFR service is regularly swamped by high altitude overflying cheap Brit airline crews asking for (usually) Italian actuals. Don't they have ACARS or is this another cost cutting trick?

[hetfield]

Do they have airconditioning for free?

[Kraut]

@ SMALLPIECE
..............swamped by high altitude overflying cheap Brit airline crews .

RYAN ain´t cheap Brit - cheap Irish.

The cheap Brit (EZY) is using ACARS. And now??:ugh:

[rubik101]

Just where does it say that ACARS is mandatory?
Air con is only for poofs anyway.
I have also never heard Zurich or any other flight infomation service congested in 30 odd years! Whatever prompted that little rant?

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

At Jet2.com we don't have Acars.

As for your judgement that we swamp the Zurich Info frequency, well I too haven't ever heard it overly used/abused. Maybe you should lobby for some of the Northern Italian Airports to be added to Volmets such as Geneva or Zurich so that we can pick up the destination weather before we start our descent not knowing what we've got coming. These services are there to be used, and I don't see why you should be objecting to us using this facility.

[fireflybob]

I would be far more worried if crews were NOT proactively getting critical weather information in a timely manner. The FIS frequencies are there precisely for this purpose along with others.

[TheRedVonBaron]

No, Ryanair havent got ACARS. I have rte but no SKY digital but i still get to see the same movies a few yrs later:}

[hobie]

I rem a well known Airline MD insisting ....

"We don't run a cheap Airline ... we run a Low cost Airline" :)

[PPRuNe Radar]

Provision of Flight Information Service is a basic ICAO requirement for a participating State, so no one can moan about pilots making use of it.

Probably a lot better to ask for weather, etc, on a dedicated FIS station rather than a busy sector frequency ??

[Contacttower]

should primarily be a light aircraft VFR service

since when have we had different ATC services depending on the size of aircraft?

[pilot999]

Arh, next you will tell us 121.50 is for light aircraft only. that's pretty chocker most of the time with puddle jumpers getting lost in vfr conditions requesting practise qdms,qdrs, position reports , when we all know that your damn well lost
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Whippersnapper]

"Reason I ask is that Zurich Information for example which should primarily be a light aircraft VFR service is regularly swamped by high altitude overflying cheap Brit airline crews asking for (usually) Italian actuals. Don't they have ACARS or is this another cost cutting trick?"
Prat. Of course it's a matter of cost - ACARS equipment, like all other aircraft parts, especially avionics, isn't cheap. There is a useage charge everyime you send a message to ops or get the weather, too. While we'd all like it to be fitted, the costs on a fleet of 150 aircraft (and rapidly increasing) are significant.
However, your insistance that the FI frequencies are for the use of light aircraft only shows your basic lack of airmanship and crass stupidity. The amount of times I change over to an approach frequency at a major airport, which is specifically for the use of aircraft landing there, and can't establish an approach in good time because some **** in a light aircraft is demanding RIS from a large airport's ATC in CAVOK conditions is inumerable, and as was said, Guard seems very congested with incompetent PPL holders getting lost in 20k vis.

[golfyankeesierra]

BTW, swiss prices are generally the highest in europe; probably overflying costs as well. So better use it and get something in return for your money.

[ATC Watcher]

Basil small piece ( I love the name, does it refers by any chance to Fawlty Towers' owner reproductive organ ? ) I do not think ACARS was invented to pass on destination weather. It can do that too, but that was not its purpose.

On the Contrary FIS was designed for this sort of info in the first place in order not to surcharge actual CONTROL frequencies. With the ATIS increase this was less and less frequent in the last years , which led to many States wanting to abandon FIS altogether , or not manning it due lack of staff.

As a VFR pilot , you should praise that IFR , overflying charges paying aircraft are making use of FIS ( RYR also do this over Germany and Denmark to ak for Wx at Polish destinations ) as this will be a good reason NOT to close the FIS frequencies in the future.

[Basil Smallpiece]

When I flew BOAC (which in terms of young pilot career progression stood for 'Better On A Camel') there was Basil and the joke about 'I work for Cunard' (say it fast with a mouthful of chips). I now fly low level VFR around Europe and only hear weather actual requests from high flying jets on Zurich info, never on Paris, Lille, Reims, London, Scottish etc.. so wondered if there's a reason...

Maybe it's the quality of the Italian Volmets?

[Strepsils]

which should primarily be a light aircraft VFR service

Stop and think for a minute about who actually pays for this service. I'll give you a clue, it's not light aircraft/VFR traffic.

Not all airfields have digital atis, therefore ACARS can only give you a MET. Not much use in working out which runway is in use if the wind is VRB, hence the need to speak to someone to get an airfield actual.

[threemiles]

There is one problem with most FIS frequencies these days, though. In many cases the frequency protection area was cut down to FL100 over the past years in order to free the frequency for other places. When high flying planes use these frequencies they MAY interfere with another station that uses the same frequency.

[BEagle]

American military ATIS frequently used to take 4 or 4 cycles before it could be copied/understood - there was some macho stupidity about trying to read it as fast as possible, it seems. As with clearanes - until they were told "Speak fast = speak twice!".

Use of FIS for FIS? Whatever next...

It seems entirely sensible to me to speak to a FIS provider to obtain arrival Wx and RW/App in use. Puddlejumping spamcans rarely need any service in decent VFR, so what's the problem? In the UK, how often do your hear someone from the LeTouquet Lunch Club droning on in that 'John Major' nerd voice with their life history when you're trying to ask for an updated RPS or whatever....

Mind you, simplified 'short weather' as used by the military might speed things up a bit - "Corleone International, Blue, 240 deg at 10 kt, QNH 1020 HPa, expect vectors ILS 25" or similar?

[woodpecker]

Pray tell me how Ryanair Ops keep track of their operation. Most airlines use ACARS to provides Chocks away. Airborne, Landing and Shutdown of each service back to their ops centre at the home base.

More to the point though, in the present age not to have ACARS for weather information, especially when the option means one of the two pilots "out of the loop" on VHF2 (around the TOD) is more than just a cost saving exercise. It directly affects safety.

With regard to I assume the likes of Gerona weather not being available other than by FIS until late on in the sector, what has Ryanair management done to put pressure on the swiss to include, for example, the Genoa TAR on Geneva Volmet and help their flightcrew.

Obviously they are not going to bother to push the Spanish to add to Madrid as the only Spanish ATIS being available on ACARS.

[Voeni]

i am (unfortunately once again) astonished by the harsh reactions to a reasonable and sound question...

obviously some in here feel guilty... ;-)

[michaelknight]

"Pray tell me how Ryanair Ops keep track of their operation"

Well really they don't, cause no money has been spent on DUB OPS, it's like there's 20 -200s still on the apron. It's a combination of 1. Fire fighting, 2. Not answering the phone, and 3. 100% Reaction.
MK

[fireflybob]

In the UK, how often do your hear someone from the LeTouquet Lunch Club droning on in that 'John Major' nerd voice with their life history when you're trying to ask for an updated RPS or whatever....


Beagle, how do know John Major hasn't taken up private flying in his retirement?

[top jock]

They use Lisline which is a Lufthansa system. Once sita messages are sent they go straight into it which updates straight away once other airports send the message in the correct format. If no messages are sent and they cant get the airport by phone they will check the CFMU website to see if the flight plan is terminated.

[gonso]

Any of knows how much an ACARS request for a wx bundle costs roughly?

thanx

[RadAlt]

"how Ryanair Ops keep track of their operation
What's wrong with the old-fashioned telex between handlers and OPS for departure/arrival messages!?:hmm:

[woodpecker]

What's wrong with the old-fashioned telex between handlers and OPS for departure/arrival messages!?
You only have to have observed "the ops man" trying to find a telex message with regard to a specific flight. In an ideal world he would read each message and then enter into the computer. The "real" world is with an operation the size of Ryanair he would be unrolling the paper stream produced by the telex printer trying to find a telex referring to the said flight. Perhaps Ryanair has a telex link direct into their ops computer, that was the reason for the question which has not been answered....... "Pray tell me how Ryanair Ops keep track of their operation?"

Enter ACARS.... The benifits include...

>>Crew at the front end have facility to "talk" to ops, access weather and ATIS information without reverting to a "one man band" with one pilot on VHF2 not monitoring VHF1.

>>Direct uplink into the ops computer of all flight information.... For example the single FMC entry of a new destination (diversion) would alert ops instantly.

>>Outstations can access "their" flight details seeing when their service pushed-back and also if it got airborne within any slot restriction....


>>Those meeting passengers can access real time arrival information for their loved-ones flight (assuming the airline has a web-based system like BA)....

Just a few examples, but the benefits are too numerous to fully list.

I feel the original thread was not "Ryanair bashing" just a question as to whether Ryanair operate in the 21st century with regard to communications with their aircraft.

[The Bartender]

What's wrong with the old-fashioned telex between handlers and OPS for departure/arrival messages!?

Other than beeing outdated technology and a complete waste of paper?
Nothing, i'm sure...:)

[Alpine Flyer]

We don't use ACARS either, mostly because of the cost of the connection fees (according to the beancounters).

OOOI-times are sent by handling agents and automatically fed into the (NetLine) ops handling software (i.e. no paper involved on the receiving side).

I mostly get weather from ATC (if it's not too busy)/ATIS/VOLMET and can't recall having to use FIS for a couple of years. If ATC is busy and no ATIS/VOLMET is available and the weather is tight, what else to use but FIS.

I haven't flown a light in the last decade and with JAR-FCL I will soon lose the privilege to do so. I'd imagine that I'd be a lot more pissed off about the new 1-900-CALL-WX numbers springing up around Europe where weather briefings are charged by the minute than about airliners using FIS.

If the frequency is not protected above FL100 that should be published somewhere and FIS should alert the caller to that fact (it's pretty obvious that Ryanair won't be buzzing some alpine pass at FL100).

[F4F]

Basil Smallpiece
I had basically the same question as you covered a while ago under http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=262061

And some of the answers were of the same vein :rolleyes:


live 2 fly 2 live

[RAT 5]

Trying to calm things down, I ask a simple question. I've heard the said Irish based airline asking for Italian weather from Swiss Info. I presume it was before TOD so that the approach can be planned & briefed. However, it was severe clear, had been for hours and the Taf'S I had suggested it would remain unchaged for most of the day, certainly the next 2 hours. If the crews had been provided with Metars & Tafs before departure, (I hope so), what is the dire necessity to enquire from the Swiss what was already known.
I can understand the thrill of using a service for which you have paid. Seems a shame to waste the premiums.

[Empty Cruise]

OM requires destination + 1 alternate WX to be recorded. We certainly don't do it because we like to add more pointless radio chatter to our working days - hope that answers your q, RAT5

And do I sense people resenting proff pilots gathering WX info??? Surely not - if it was a 200-hr PPL asking for WX, we'd commend him/her for a proactive attitude and safety awareness - any chance to extend the same courtesey towards other airspace users as well???

The service is there, free for all to use - so we do. But sure, the moment we ban VFR crossings from all EUR region TMAs and CTRs I'm sure we can come to some agreement about not using FIS for WX gathering :ugh:

[Callo]

Stator vane stop sounding like an obnoxious tit now that you've finally landed a jet job. He was asking a Q and quite clearly doesn't see the big picture.
We we're all in that position at some point in our career and just because you have the benfit of hindsight doesn't mean you can slate someone. Save your crude language for your CEO'S press releases not a professional forum.

[razzele]

One weekend I was flying in the LTMA, (in the one of FR's none acars jet) towards another destination not serviced by a Volmet frequency.

I tuned into London FIS 124.750, (reminiscing of my SPAMEIFR days) it was soo full of VFR 'Le Touquet john's" chatter that I deemed it bad airmanship to use that frequency at such a time.

So politely I left to gather my required info from elsewhere.

[MorningGlory]

ryanair acars? :} brilliant.. we even have to get out of our seats to look through the door to make sure there's no terrorist with a spoon in his hand ready to pounce.. pathetic. someone will knock off a pack switch soon...
Most profitable airline in europe.. too tight for safety, won't fit cameras. tossers.

[Sawbones]

At our airline, we routinely get ATIS information by way of ACARS in North America, but in places like LHR/FCO we have to listen out on the VHF frequencies listed. Is there something we aren't doing/paying for that doesn't allow us to access ATIS in Europe?

[Callo]

Thank you Stator Vane for explaining the big picture to the initial poster. Im sure your last response is far more helpful to him. Being a professional I had assumed you could rise above anything that was said but you obviously felt the need to lower the tone. Be the bigger man and rise above it.



In saying that thank you for justifying what I said in my previous post.

[MrHorgy]

Much amusement from me overhead Stapleford yesterday with Stapleford Radio on Box 1 to hear a Ryanair jet asking for met info for Rome!

I don't see what the fuss is about, if a facility is there, then use it. I regular grab the ATIS for Luton before calling up for Zone Transit, and it cut's down their radio work and mine. I'm only VFR, but it doesn't do any harm. If someone wants to be proactive and gather more information for his or her destination then that's a good idea - better to have it and there be no sig change, rather than not wanting to interrupt people's VFR jollies and find +TSRA at the destination.

Horgy

[hollywood285]

handbags!!!

[PPRuNeUser0183]

Quite true BEagle,

They could just add at the end "check NOTAMs" or "standard disclaimers apply" to save the extra 30 seconds of drivel at some airports. It's as is there's a competition to name every possible cautionary tale REGARDLESS of actual conditions.

[WildWesterner]

Probably a lot better to ask for weather, etc, on a dedicated FIS station rather than a busy sector frequency ??


And that still happens regularly too! Had (a very polite) chap asking for the Luton QNH and even local time in London. At least he waited for a gap in the R/T! I always help if time permits, although 15mins out of Luton, already in descent, surely the ATIS has some of the required info. Still, local time was a first for me.

[PPRuNeUser0183]

WildWesterner,

I've got to say that I don't use FIS very often at all, but it's a fantastic service to have, and reassuring to know that it's always there if you need it. I don't think anyone should be afraid to use it...ever. :ok: