Qatar Airways - cadet program - SO [Archive]

boredcounter

17th Jan 2005, 00:18

Please do not think for one minute that I disagree with a word you say here, you post well and put your views/opinion very well, just as it should be. I never recall seeing such a well balanced thread on any QR related topic so far.

Fact is, even in good old Europe, low time and very keen Pilot assets are having to pay for what they get if it leads to a job. Even high time rated guys have to pay certain airlines to look at CV's........................................

I am no fan of QR/Qatar and that is no secret, however, one thing that cannot be taken away from QR here is the fact they are prepared to pay a Cadet whilst under training.

There are 'First World' Airlines taking cash up front for Type Ratings, after self funded Jet Handling Assesments with third party involvement. It just seems to be the way of the World now, Wannabes standing up united against it just isn't going to make it go away.

If there are keen types who want to go for it, so be it. I would say we all learn by our mistakes, but my views are tarnished by my own (very short) experience out there, along with my own views/experiences of QR.

Nice to see you trying to help these guys decide, only they can decide if it is a good deal, if it pays enough to pay the loans back home, at least you are contributing, just wish someone at QR would answer this obvious interest in their ad.

The one thing I could never work out about the whole deal.....

QR Recruit NTR P1 and P2 all fleets.
QR bond said NTR Pilots.
QR has failed said pilots after ground school, and not cared about the costs incurred.
QR has an 'Open cheque book' ask Airbus

Why deduct training costs from salary? is bonding not enough?

My guess is 'Cadet Pilots' may just stay for five years, if only they were not paying back costs to be incurred anyway.

2p worth I had to get off my chest, sorry.

Choose well guys, enjoy and above all, FLY SAFE

Bored

Vne98

17th Jan 2005, 03:13

Any Canadian Expats out there explain what the equivalent "Frozen ATPL" is in the Middle East? Does the IATRA qualify or are we out of luck if we don't have the hours to write the ATPL?

I have been reading Canadian forums and it sounds like us low time Canucks are out of luck :ugh:

sajko

17th Jan 2005, 08:02

Iatra is not accepted, minima’s are actual frozen ATPL which you guys unfortunally can't get without 750 hours. One more info Qatari CAA does not accept FAA frozen ATPL, the only ATPL from states they accept is full unrestricted ATPL.

Global Nomad

17th Jan 2005, 08:31

In Europe one can expect;

a) Employment legislation contracts and courts that can enforce human rights issues.

b) Employers that appear more approachable (if only because they are culturally more similar), and therefore questions can be answered easily.

c) A decision that can be made knowing you have all the facts. If the facts don't appear as per your contract, at least you can revert to point a).

In the ME one can expect;

a) Your contract to be honoured because if it were to be breached, or even perceived to be, the fall out makes it very difficult for expanding airlines to retain/recruit pilots.

b) A very loosely worded contract. This of course opens many options, unfortunately not for you.

c) A great degree of difficulty to enforce or gain restitution from said contract should it be breached.

When a pilot has hours, licences, experience and no "bond" then he is a very tradeable commodity.

When you're a newbie with a 5 year bond/time lock obligation that only kicks in when the employee decides, then it's like having an open ended contract with a 5 year probation period tacked on the end.

People will que for this deal, just as many did for the SQ "cadet" program.

I wonder if just as many will be as disillusioned as the SQ expat brats were.

As I said before, no skin off my nose so 'let the buyer beware'.

By the way, just because Qatari CAA don't accept frozen ATPL's this week, doesn't mean to say they won't next week. I'm sure QR have that one covered.

sajko

17th Jan 2005, 10:34

Qatari CAA does accept frozen ATPL's, the only frozen ATPL that is not accepted is FAA ATPL.

Rosbif

17th Jan 2005, 13:45

I understand that it can be extremely frustrating looking for work, especially with low time and no commercial experience. It is not easy for people with the "unmarketable" type ratings or licences from non JAR states either.

I would caution people about making decisions which have contractual repercussions five years from now based on a situation which will have changed probably three weeks from now, especially in a country where you have effectively NO legal rights, cannot buy property (at the mercy of the landlords), can be deported at the company's discretion, and with a company which has a reputation for promising much (always with a "situation might change") and delivering very little in terms of career advancement.

Lowering the bar is often seen as a solution to staffing problems, but does not solve the fundamental problems.

If you want to sell yourself into slavery, go ahead. You have been warned.

ODGUY

17th Jan 2005, 15:06

Any replies yet? Anyone else can confirm Canadian IATRA not accepted?

Vne98

18th Jan 2005, 15:29

Hey ODGUY,

If you check out avcanada there is a post from someone who actually called the HR department and asked about the IATRA and it was confirmed that it is not accepted as a Frozen ATPL.

Sorry bout the glum news...

R8TED THRUST

19th Jan 2005, 03:36

Canadian IATRA is not a frozen ATPL!

The only way to have a frozen Canadian ATPL is by writing the exams and not having the required flight time!!!

And you can write the Canadian ATPL now with less than 750 HRS
You now have the choice of writing the A"S or your IATRA with 250 HRS for that first type....

Cheers

Vne98

19th Jan 2005, 15:11

Has anyone else experienced email problems with the Qatar server? It seems like their disk space has totally filled up with applications.

Am I the only one here with this issue?:confused:

Kerropi

20th Jan 2005, 07:27

Yes I am also experiencing problems when submitting my email application... Well guess I have to send it via snail mail then....:ouch:

Maybe they are receiving so many applications that the server could not handle it.

K.

nopoal

20th Jan 2005, 07:49

Hi there,

Has someone received any answer about the recruitment process or the status of its application form?? In what will consist the asessment??Interview, aptitude test and sim ride?
Thanks to everybody and good luck.

Waiting on the selcall ;)

mustangV8

20th Jan 2005, 09:03

I spoke to one of the recruiting ppl 2 days ago regarding the app. process.

only 12 applicants will be selected/hired. they do not having a closing date, its open for the time being. The ones that haven't recieved an email acknowledgement confirming your CV/legal documents, expect a week to 10 days factoring in the eid holidays. The 'main' recruiting person was not in when I called so couldn't get more info.

anyone care to advise on the selection process, interview, sim eval, written testing??

thanx

mig21bis

20th Jan 2005, 15:20

a friend applying want me to ask if any one know, how much time you will spend as Second Officer in qatar airways until apointed a First officer???

thanks

Rosbif

20th Jan 2005, 16:04

How long is a piece of string?

Rosbif

24th Jan 2005, 12:04

The reason for this is that any information you get on this topic will be out of date in a few weeks. The terms will change, the requirements will change, and nobody will know what is going on. This is a management style apparently perfected at QR.
If you want to apply, go ahead. The goalposts WILL move, the terms WILL change, and the world WILL be a very different place by the time your "bond" is paid off.
Just think of all the opportunities you WILL miss if you accept this deal.
You are going to convince yourself to accept this garbage anyway. I'm not going to help you do it.

Global Nomad

24th Jan 2005, 20:58

Disagree Studi

A lack of information, is information in itself.

sony

24th Jan 2005, 22:44

Disagree Global Nomad,

I would say there is a lack of information because this is a brand new position/recruitment policy for Qatar Airways.

SFontaine

25th Jan 2005, 02:21

Qatar Airways employing Second O's huh. I wonder when Emirates will follow suit. Sounds like a pleasant deal, with the exception of the high price of training. 30,000 USD is very high for any aircraft type rating.

Just a question, how come every Qatar Airways FO I see has only 2 stripes?

At other companies I have seen, 2 stripe FO's, but only while they were newly trained from SO or were newly trained. Once assessed, 2.5 to 3 stripes.

Lil' Pilot

25th Jan 2005, 09:26

Does it really matter how much stripes a F/O has? It doesn't change anything for the job he does. Still has the same responsibilties..1 stripe, 2 stripes, or 43 stripes all the way to your shoulder. What does it matter?

FAB

25th Jan 2005, 19:18

Hello Vne98,

I sent my CV to QatarA 2 days ago, I received an answer this morning, and I am waiting for the next.
It seems they accept Canadian License, I have 250hrs TT and a type rating on A320 that I paid myself.
The qualification on type make the difference, one of my partner on the 320 course just found a job in Asia, 0 hours on type.
Everything is possible....

;-)

Vne98

26th Jan 2005, 02:58

FAB

Where did you do your course? How much did it cost?

Regards,
Vne98

skudrunner

26th Jan 2005, 17:56

Yes FAB where did you get your type rating, and how much $$$.
I'm a Canadian also but with several thousands of hours. I don't have any type ratings, but would love to learn how you went about it.
Thanks

skud

ODGUY

28th Jan 2005, 04:27

I did the space shuttle type rating, i have 0 time on type, but keeping my fingers crossed. i hear the baby boomers are about to retire...

:ok:

it's all possible!

Rosbif

28th Jan 2005, 17:32

I have a Swiss army knife and I passed o level Biology. Can I be a surgeon?
What if I will work for free and buy all the drinks at the golf club?
Okay. I start Monday at Doha general hospital.

cochise

29th Jan 2005, 19:16

Has anyone that sent in their application for the Second Officer program heard back from Qatar yet?

skudrunner

29th Jan 2005, 20:25

----Has anyone that sent in their application for the Second Officer program heard back from Qatar yet?----

No, was never able to get my email to work on the address provided. Anyone else have this problem???

boeingbus2002

1st Feb 2005, 23:19

There maybe some misinterpretation as to the role of a 2nd Officer. In the UK, Britannia (now Thomsonfly) have 2nd Officers who are just FrATPLs. When they hit the 1500 hrs and have the Green book issued, they are First Officers. Their job is just the same.

I read with interest at some of the comments by Rosbif or Global Nomad. What other choices does someone with 250 Hrs FATPL have? Currently it is a buy your own rating gamble where there is no guarantee of emplyment at the end. With the QR scheme, it "seems" like the traditional bonded arrangement where you must stay for 5 years and repay your type rating costs. You can still leave if you can pay the bond back.

If a low hours guy had gained just 500 hrs on type, he would instantly become more marketable with other airlines should the situation with QR be worst than expected.

Well done QR:ok:

Qatari515

2nd Feb 2005, 06:29

It is all very easy for us, sitting at FL410 being fat and ( semi) happy, to say that this is a bad deal and everybody should stay away!

That is wrong! Remember when we where all looking for jobs and nobody wanted us. Just out of flying college with no more then 300hrs....

Hell, If I had an opportunity that is similar to this one back then I would have grabbed it with both hands!

As long as you are aware of the little script on the bottom of the contract I think this is a cracking deal!

So you fly 5 months as an SO for 7000QR/month....At least you are flying! And you are flying a modern airliner! After 5 months max you do an upgrade and you make more money then many captains flying in Europe....again flying a modern airliner!!!!

And yes, you have to stay 5 years unless you have won the lottery, in which case you would not have become a pilot I hope! So what, 5 years means 3500hrs heavy jet. You saved some money and after 5 years you can go and play with the big guys!!!!!

Where exactly is the catch????? Take it guys, this might be a golden opportunity.

I think QR is much better for these unexperienced FOs then for the loads of experienced guys we have just been attrackting overhere!!!
Currently time to command is 8-10 years!!!!!!!!!They have just announced that a maximum of 8 captain upgrades/year will be approved. This together with the rules of min 5000Hr heavy jet and 3 years in the company makes QR a very very unattractive deal to the experienced FO!!! Especially since these rules have been changed 5 times over the last three years and it seems they are only getting worse.

Makes you think, doesnt it?:yuk:

superman_32

3rd Feb 2005, 14:15

I have taken it from the lion's mouth, QR are currently running meetings to lay down the way they will go about this SOs in terms of the selection process, A) Aptitude tests or B) Technical Questions or C) group exercises. OR all these, I believe that should a simualtor trip be required it will be carried out on a Frasca 242 at a near by flying school. Just to assess the applicant handling skills and his IR skills. I have not heard anything yet but soon we shall all hear something, they are only looking for 12 people which makes sense since the SIM at France will require 2 crew.This is a trial period and if it works and all those lucky people succeed I presume that QR will continue with this deal for some time then stop it 'cos they are required by LAW to hire local i.e nationals of Qatar, a certain percentage of any establishment in the State of Qatar and so is the case in many Gulf states, I do not know however that percentage I think arond 50% correct me if I am wrong.

Keep your fingers crossed and pray to the Almight Lord.

Good luck to everyone.

Give 'em TWO weeks from today's date 2.2.2005

Read your old ATPL manuals and revise your Jepps charts.
<HINT>

Lil' Pilot

3rd Feb 2005, 14:55

That's some really useful information! Thanks :ok:

Hajj Man

6th Feb 2005, 07:02

I have been reading and have gotten a few PM’s from people on this subject asking me what do I think? I have been very busy with flying, the Hajj Season with family and so on so I have not had time to sit and really reply or digest this entire situation.

Here is what I think about the events going on at QR concerning this:

They have been a few first officers that have gone out and bought an A-300 type rating in Jordan I believe and joined Qatar Airways. Some of them are the son’s of captains that are presently here with Qatar Airways. I have to add that they are not Qatari but are from another Arab country (not that this matters I think).
I think they have to go through 80 sectors with a training captain. Out of these 80 sectors, they don’t taxi the aircraft until sector 30 and it is a long tiring drawn out process for them of constant questions every flight. We all know that just doing the initial 6 to 7 sectors when you first join a company is hard, so can you imagine? Anyhow these guys are online now and I am not sure if they are getting paid as a F/O or a S/O don’t know anyway of finding out, sorry.

I think that this program of hiring these FEW guys went well so they are now and will always look for CHEAP ways of filling the cockpit. Most likely one of the bean counters that presents spreadsheets to the CEO has shown him how they can crew the airplanes for less money and is trying to introduce this “low Cost” idea. No offence to the low time pilots out there but Qatar Airways is trying to portray a “5 Star Airline” in the “Major Airline World” and this sort of hiring and way of doing business is a Charter outfit, new startup, penny pinching, fly by night, low cost, way of doing business and not that of a Major Airline in the World that is looking for Global Recognition as such.Yes, I do agree that you have to start somewhere and it is certainly not your fault that QR is leaning towards these measures of filling the seats.

Global nomad wrote, “Line up here to sell your profession.” Well guess what? This profession has been sold over and over again and is getting cheaper and cheaper for the employer and more expensive for the employee. Just remember that when you lower the bar on the this profession, it is very hard to get it back up. (the bar seems to be heading the wrong way faster and faster these days.)

I think that the hiring for this CADET program will be very political, DID I SAY “VERY POLITICAL” and you will be a VERY, DID I SAY “VERY” lucky guy/gal to get in just on your own merits with no “INSIDER PULL.” But please try and give it a shot. As a pilot it is your lucky day to get on this way with a major airline in the world but for those of us that are here already it does raise a question as to why Qatar Airways are going about hiring their pilots like this? Don’t get me wrong on this thread thinking I am saying to you not to take the chance and try to get on with a major airline and build your hours and run, DID I SAY “RUN!!!!” after you can stand on your own two feet and grab the aviation world by the B-LLS!!!!..

Just a quick reminder that is not tied to this post but a good thing to always keep in your heart and mind. “Caution every move in this small aviation world good or bad that you do. It will do a full circle one day and help you or hinder you later in your aviation life.” I have seen it happen to so many people in the good way as well as the bad way.

HM:ok:

Bravo190

9th Feb 2005, 08:28

I recieved a reply via email from them saying my'' application is being processed'', it's a signed letter which they scanned, any of you guy's reveive similiar letter?

What is the life style like in Qatar?

Thanks:ok:

FAB

9th Feb 2005, 14:44

Hello,
I guess we all received the same letter.

A friend of mine received a negative response 1 week ago but he was above 29 years old. I have 2 friends also rated on the A320 and below 29 years old and we received this letter but no news yet.

Good luck!

Bravo190

10th Feb 2005, 07:59

Same to you!:ok:

med777

16th Feb 2005, 09:15

Hello,

I need to know when I can apply to Qatar.
Is it too late ??

I have still not finished my pilot formation
(I have just the ATPL and I started the CPL) and I will have 29 very soon, in September in fact.

So I could contract a debt in order to accelerate my pilot formation and finish it in March.

Then I could send my application before September.

But will they really accept my application if I send it in April.

Thanks for your precious answers.

Best Regards,
Mehdi

superman_32

16th Feb 2005, 15:00

Guys, I have been turned down .by QR ..ha ha ha ha ha ha ha......

I got everything and more, but I am
toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo old 32 yrs!!!

hahahahahahahaha

hahahahahahahahahahahaha

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

............................................................

Lil' Pilot

16th Feb 2005, 16:03

Give 'em TWO weeks from today's date 2.2.2005

It's been 2 weeks today. Anyone got some good news?

Ciao

superman_32

17th Feb 2005, 12:58

Hi guys,

I have just been to see the man incharge of QR second officer scheme, and I tell you he is as sharp as a knife. He told me that even if someone has an ATPL and few hours or even 1000s of hours on turbo-prop he will not be considered ! ! ! if he has no high hours on the jet.

They have lowered the age cut-of ban to 27 rather than the advertised of 28!!! so even if you just turned 28 yrs old all I can say is sorry mate. tooo close yet tooo far.......

no winning with airlines.....

Good luck to all of you .

FAB

17th Feb 2005, 13:17

Do you have an idea when they will give the response, no news yet. Do you think that my candidature will not be considered (23 years old and EA32 rating) because I don't have jet time?

Lil' Pilot

17th Feb 2005, 13:33

So if I get it right, they only wanna see a lot of jet hours. Or else you're not considered...:hmm:

FAB

17th Feb 2005, 13:39

I am not sure that you need high hours on jet to be considered for the S/O scheme........they put 2 ads on their website, 1 for S/O and the other one for qualified pilots with jet experience....

A guy with jet time won't apply for S/O i guess.

Lil' Pilot

17th Feb 2005, 13:49

That's exactly what I thought. They had 2 kind of vacancies, both for SO's and FO's (experienced). But this is a thread about the cadet pilot/ second officer scheme, so I thought superman was referring to this option. In fact, that's what he says:

I have just been to see the man incharge of QR second officer scheme, and I tell you he is as sharp as a knife. He told me that even if someone has an ATPL and few hours or even 1000s of hours on turbo-prop he will not be considered ! ! ! if he has no high hours on the jet.

Let's hope that's not the case. Time will tell.

Ciao

Skyg

17th Feb 2005, 21:47

Dear Friends,

Stop thinking for god sake.

QR is not a serious company. And is far from being.

"Money" (a lot) doesn't mean that the company is a great one.

Basically, this selection process will be taken as the chance for everyone with somebody "inside" to get on.

Outsiders, if you have great numbers of Jet and ATP, may be....

The selection as everything over ther will not be serious.

Sorry to be kind of cruel, but is a fact that you're not taking into consideration.

Cheers!!,

:hmm:

FAB

17th Feb 2005, 22:51

What is a serious company for you?

What is your background, are you flying for QR?

Cheers

Skyg

18th Feb 2005, 06:25

Dear FAB,

How's that?

The only change of every week's requirements makes them not to be serious either responsible at all...

They do play with the hopes of thousends...

If you want to get some more info about QR just get into the forums, and you will see, what is going on there...

I can't tell you that everything they say there is truth, but i've been in there and i can tell you it happens...

If you want I can give you around 50 reasons about it.

And I repeat, THEY SHOULDN'T PLAY WITH WORLDWIDE HOPES if they are not SURE WHAT THEY WANT!....

Cheers,

:suspect:

superman_32

22nd Feb 2005, 09:56

This is the deal, the cut off age for the SO scheme, has gone down to only 27yrs old and they have had another meeting yesterday to see what other requirments they need to really narrow the selection process. At the moment they are given priority to educated people with degrees, so if you hold an excellent flying record it is useless coz you do not have a university degree...hahahahahahaha...it is true.

anyways logic defies me sometimes, ONE WAY to the right means the other way not right,,,right?

good luck to all those people out there waiting for their break with QR. It is an excellent airline to work for <true>

Let us hope that QR is not putting people hopes high as it has been previously mentioned. I dont think so, they really want pilots " educated with a BSc or a MSc"

P.S. good flying skills not necessary"

FAB

22nd Feb 2005, 13:43

Hello,
Could you please tell us how you can obtain all these informations?
You said it is an excellent airline to work for......have you ever been working for QR? If yes why did you apply for the S/O scheme? If you know them so why they refused your application?
What is you ineterest?

The University degree......of course everybody knows that you have to be an engineer to fly an airbus...ahah, seriously, don't you think they will give priority to qualified guys if they really need pilots?

heu, what is your background?

Cheers

SFontaine

22nd Feb 2005, 20:37

How is it superman 32 that you are the only one who seems to know anything about this "program"? I must admit, I know nobody at QR, but you seem to know much, or at least say you do. The other Qatari pilots on this board seem silent on the matter regarding SO's. I must admit, I myself am curious as to what the job description will be as QR do not fly Ultra Long Hull flights as of yet.

Good luck to those who applied. It sound as though it could be a possible way to land that slippery first job. Though it is intersting that they have not responded to anyone yet.

gina35

22nd Feb 2005, 20:57

i also want more information if anybody has any. i have heard nothing other than the first email. has anybody heard anything, information on any possible selectees for the inerviews. is what superman says factual, or guesses. fairly odd that no person has any information on this. who knows what they are acutually looking for. best of luck to us all if this is a genuine oppurtunity.

FAB

22nd Feb 2005, 23:24

No news.....good news ;-)

Gina35, where are U in Canada?

Cheers

The only thing I know is that 2 friends have already received a negative response, one had Turbine time and the other Jet time.
2 other friends and I qualified on the A320 are still waiting for the response since the letter...
I hope they will tell soon....

The only thing I know is that 2 friends have already received a negative response, one had Turbine time and the other Jet time.
2 other friends and I qualified on the A320 are still waiting for the response since the letter...
I hope they will tell soon....

gina35

22nd Feb 2005, 23:43

hello FAB.

i'm from B.C., but i live in Ontario.

why did your friends get rejected especially with turbine hours. too old?

FAB

23rd Feb 2005, 00:48

One is 32 and the other 26.

I really wonder when they will give us the response, I obtained the A320 rating (in Vancouver) 3 months ago and I am still looking for a job. As I am 23, I applied for this S/O scheme 1 month ago and also for the qualified pilot ad, no news since that standart letter.
I know that a lot of pilots applied for this position and it should take a long time for QR to choose the candidates.

Do you know how many pilots they need?

Fab

sony

23rd Feb 2005, 05:38

I hear they are only looking for 12 people. Which means very very competitive. I also hear they recieved thousands of resumes, for only 12 positions.:rolleyes:

Qatari515

23rd Feb 2005, 05:39

QR needs +200 pilots next year only to cater for the expansion planned.

Initially this ab initio pilot project started with 6-10 spots available. The amount of applications however was huge! I believe over 15 times more applications came in!

That is why they are looking now for a way to do the selection process. When these initial guys/girls will be flying and all went well then they will probably hire more ab initios.

SO does not mean you are a relief pilot on ultra long haul!

SO is an F/O in training. You will be flying on A300/A320. First you will fly with a fully qualified FO as cover for a certain number of sectors, untill the training dept is convinced you can handle all the failures.
Then you will fly again a certain amount of sectors ( +/_ 6 months) as an S/O with line training captains. After a line check you will be a FO.

So nothing to do with relief pilot like Cathay Pacific for example. You DO fly as SO. Only difference is the salary.

IN QR the in flight relief pilots are F/Os on the A330 with 1 year on the fleet and min 2500Hrs.

Good luck

PS: SO sheme does NOT require high jet hours!!!!! What would be the purpose for that? Min req as in advertisment, preferably with higher education ( why, only HE knows...)

sony

23rd Feb 2005, 07:02

Qatari515,

Could you please check your PM's sir.

Cheers

Qatari515

23rd Feb 2005, 11:46

Studi....

I hate to disapoint you but I think you are dreaming a bit here....

Managment positions are given to qatari or to very few expats with large experience....

The reason why as an SO they ask some sort of an education is that they want some sort of a level ...

superman_32

23rd Feb 2005, 15:42

Oh I think I know what I am talking about...... the SO scheme is good but only for those who hold a degree in nuclear physics.

There has been a change in the requirements. It is now an age limit of 27 yrs old.

ironbutt57

23rd Feb 2005, 20:53

As with many airlines...particularly those who hire non-jet experienced pilots...the degree demonstrates your ability to LEARN....:zzz:

411A

24th Feb 2005, 15:04

...and, keep your mouth firmly shut, and don't argue.

The road to success for junior pilots.
Always has been, always will be.

superman_32

25th Feb 2005, 12:57

in my opinion having a degree is not as necessary as your skills and ability to be able to handle a multi-function job such as a pilot. Do you know that driving a car requires more skill than flying an aircraft? yet uneducated people drive cars. At the end of the day it is only a trasnportaion mode just like a train driver, or a car driver.

With the advances in technology flying has become on of the easiest jobs one can do. The automation has been designed to put the pilot out of the cockpit.

Sure having a degree represents one's learning curve, but everything in life from the simplist action to the more advanced all require a super learning curve. Not all human beings make good pilots in term of professionalism and not all human beings make good car drivers due to thier eye-hand co-cordination.

It is all about ABILITY and the expeditious manner about which one can act in the event of an ensuing accident, armed with laid down SOPs and some common sense.

I know a lot of people I met with high degrees in both the arts and science, yet their natural ability of flying an aircraft is zero.

Having a degree is only to make life difficult for others, who have decided to persue the love of their life i.e. FLYING when they have finished their High school.

P.S. I know of someone who is now a captain on the B747-400 with BA, and his previous job was a MILK MAN. They have tagged him the " Flying Milk man"

QR133

26th Feb 2005, 23:21

Superman 32,

With regrads to your previous posts i have found your comments for the QR S/O scheme to be irrelevant.

You have mentioned that QR have required a high amount of jet hours in order to be concidered for the SO scheme, which is incorrect.

You also mentioned that QR would accept candidates with poor flying ability as long as they have a degree, I can ensure you that QR will choose their candidates from selected flying schools.
i.e (BAE SYSTEMS/JEREZ, Oxford and others.)

By the way flying a fast jet airplane is not like driving a car, and the reason for the automation to reduce pilot fatigue and to reduce human error, not to put the pilot out of the cockpit as you mentioned.

Good luck to all those waiting for a reply

ps most of the successfull candidates will fly the A319/A320/A321 and few will fly A300-622R.

:ok:

gina35

1st Mar 2005, 15:34

I guess by the silence on this thread there has been no more information from Qatar to the applicants regarding SO interviews. No news is better than bad news I guess.

Good luck to everybody.

Lil' Pilot

1st Mar 2005, 16:03

It could take a while before applicants will hear something from QR. But as Gina said, no news is good news.

Good luck to y'all

nopoal

2nd Mar 2005, 11:00

Hi

Yesterday and for the second time I have been asked to send my resume, licenses, application form of 8 pages,...
They needed all before 3 march 7:00 local time. So I suppose they will give us more info in a near future.
Good luck and see you on the Middle East

flaps 15% :cool:

FAB

2nd Mar 2005, 11:46

I don't think they need pilots for immediate position, I mean it will take 2 months for you to be trained on the A320 sim in France, so S/O may start around august?

We were 3 guys rated on the A319/320/321 applying for the S/O scheme and no responses yet, so they should not need pilots for immediate start.

I hope we will know soon, I have to make some decisions...

Lil' Pilot

2nd Mar 2005, 16:00

FAB,

What kind of decissions do you have to make then? If you have another offer (a decent one), I'd suggest you go for that one. Since it's going to take a long while before QR even knows how many applicants can proceed to the next round. And a lot of people are waiting for this. So you have to look at the chance you'll be succesfull. But again, if you've got other options...think about it!

Good luck :ok:

MD12

3rd Mar 2005, 19:48

___________________________________________

Interview already done.

Lil' Pilot

3rd Mar 2005, 20:57

You had an interview already MD? How did it go? Care to share your experience? Would be really nice!

FAB

4th Mar 2005, 00:21

MD12, was it for the S/O application or F/O one?

MD12

4th Mar 2005, 12:24

S/O

Less than ten pilots at the interview.

Lil' Pilot

4th Mar 2005, 13:37

Good to hear MD!

What was the interview like? Did they tell how many people they need, and what future expectations are? Do you already have any jet hours?
Sorry for the curiousity :O It's just that a lot of us have waited a long time to hear something good from QR, and it looks like something is happening now.
Thanks in advance, and good luck :ok:

Ciao

FAB

4th Mar 2005, 13:53

MD12,

When did you get the response from QR? When did you applied?
Did they send the response via email or post?
Lots of questions.....

Thanks

Jodiekeyz

6th Mar 2005, 12:56

Don't pay any attention to superman...he's a plonker that attened OAT graduated and has still not got a job..hes just bitter:yuk: :}

nopoal

7th Mar 2005, 13:01

Hi everybody,

For the third time I have been asked to resend some docs. Hope that would be the last and the positive time.

Md 12. Could you give us more info about the assesment??

Ciaoo

flaps 15%

FAB

7th Mar 2005, 13:09

Hello Nopoal,

It's good news for you, very positive I think!

Concerning MD12, I still have some doubts with the fact that QR has already invited candidates for interviews.
I really believe MD12 and Superman_32 are the same person, just a feeling, maybe I'm wrong...

I am still waiting for some news, a friend of mine received a negative response last week. I don't know if I should write to them again or still wait. I would prefer to receive a negative response than waiting for so long.
I really want to touch the sidestick again, Qr would be a good opportunity...

Did they reply to you via email or phone call?
Fab

Kerropi

7th Mar 2005, 13:28

I've just received an email with an attachement.

In the Email it says:

This is to acknowledge receipt of your CV/Application form for CADET PILOT
/ SECOND OFFICER (please see attached letter).

Flight Deck Recruitment Team
Qatar Airways
Doha, State of Qatar.

And in the attachment:

We wish to advise you that the current exercise has been completed. However, we are keeping your CV on our database and will be considered for the next recruitment exercise.

K.

variablepitch

7th Mar 2005, 14:00

I also recieved another request for documents. They asked for a Frozen ATPl certificate. All I have is confirmation that I have passed them all and I had sent that the last time.

UK CAA don't issue any more than this so I hope this won't be a problem. From what I have been told about the process I also don't think they have conducted interviews yet either.

Nopoal check your pm!

Lil' Pilot

7th Mar 2005, 17:36

FAB,

don't expect anything from QR in the near future. They still have to make up their mind for what they exactly want with these candidates. Just keep your eyes open for something else. If nothing pops up for you in the mean time, and you get a response from QR, that's only a plus. But I wouldn't wait for QR, as it could take a while.
Aren't there any possibilties in Asia with a bus-rating? Companies like Kingfisher, Air Asia, Jet Airways etc. gonna need some drivers me thinks.

Good luck anyway!

FAB

7th Mar 2005, 18:05

hello Lil' Pilot,

I only have the A320 rating with no experience on type, I sent my resume to more than 60 companies since january and I received 24 responses saying that my CV is kept for futur need, etc...sometimes they ask for a copy of my license/rating and then no news.
I sent my resume to AirAsia and Kingfisher last week, we'll see, but companies always require 300-500hrs on type...not easy.

For QR, it would be a great opportunity as there are no minimums for the S/O, so I really wish a positive response. Do you think they have already done interviews for S/O as MD12 said?
Do you think I should call directly to have a response? If they need pilots, why don't they hire someone already qualified and available? How long will it take to obtain a response :zzz:

Lil' Pilot

7th Mar 2005, 18:21

Hi FAB,

I also don't think they've had interviews yet. For SO's that is. Could be that they're having interviews for FO's at the moment. Don't believe MD12 really had an SO interview. Especially now people are asking questions about his/ her experience, and suddenly...no response from md.

Ciao,

P.S. check your pm's FAB

MD12

7th Mar 2005, 18:45

Fab and Lil'Pilot,

I don´t know any of you so there's no reason to lie, furthermore be sure that I don't need to lie. Believe it or not, but as I said a few guys went to Doha last week.

Good luck to all of them.

MD12

Lil' Pilot

7th Mar 2005, 19:12

OK md,

Care to share some extra info then? Would be very nice for the rest of the guys down here. I know for sure some additional info will be really appreciated!!

Ciao

MD12

7th Mar 2005, 19:18

Why do you want more info if you don't believe me?. Better wait until the moment the selection process ends.

As I said, good luck to all of them.

MD12

Lil' Pilot

7th Mar 2005, 19:27

Geez, don't be so childish :8
Maybe I saw that I could have been wrong. But your reaction says enough :hmm:
Any info is welcome, especially as we don't get that much from QR. So if you've got something usefull, be a good colleague and share it with us guys. If not, that's too bad.

Ciao

superman_32

7th Mar 2005, 19:32

Q133 this is for you :-

In order to develop an insight into the Profession of Airline Pilot, it is important to realise that a professional pilot's primary task is to fly the aircraft under his command from the departure airport to destination safely. This fact cannot be over emphasised. After this primary objective has been addressed, the myriad of other important considerations such as operating the aircraft economically, on time, smoothly, quickly, efficiently etc can then be tackled. But unless the aircraft is operated safely it ultimately cannot be any of the latter. The fact is, airlines that do not operate their aircraft as safely as possible eventually 'lose' aircraft and airlines that lose aircraft do not usually survive in the market place and as such are not viable.

As with any form of human endeavour, the ability of pilots to perform this primary task competently is a complex distillation of many diverse and often competing factors. Some of these factors include:

That the pilots employed by an airline be of high calibre in that they possess a competent standard of basic aeronautical skills. These skills include basic flying ability (manipulative skill) and cockpit management skills which are fundamental to effective crew co-ordination and a safe decision making process.

That pilots are prepared to exercise these aeronautical skills in a responsible (professional) manner and as such display what is known in the profession as 'good airmanship'. In order for this to occur professional pilots must possess two character traits:-
'INTEGRITY' meaning honesty such that the pilot does not delude him/herself about the significance of any information or clues that come his/her way and;
'STRENGTH OF CHARACTER' such that he/she is able to resist external 'pressures' to modify his/her operational decisions in the light of commercial considerations.

That pilots are able to operate in an employment environment where they receive the active support of senior airline management for such things as proper aircrew training, safe operating procedures and the pilots' operational decision making process. In other words, active management support of their pilots' ability to operate their aircraft in a professional (safe) manner. For this to take place, the authority pertaining to the position of 'Captain' must be recognised and actively supported by airline management.

But fundamental to a safe airline operation is a system that ensures that pilots are able to exercise their professional skills free of commercial pressures. In summary, a system that enshrines basic pilot rights within an employment contract and as such ensures 'pilot independence'.
These qualities combined together begin to define the position of 'Professional Pilot'.

All these factors are crucial to a safe airline operation because the pilot in command of an aircraft is in a unique position. Not only is he the only person aware of all the factors and operational constraints pertaining to his particular flight, but ultimately he is the only person on location qualified to deal in a safe manner with the myriad of problems that invariably arise throughout the course of a flight. To summarise, an aircraft captain is the only person capable of managing his particular flight and as such his primary role in an airline is as the manager of his particular flight.

"Through his seat at the front of the aircraft flow the efforts of thousands of people who provide the means by which he carries out his task. However, it is an undeniable fact that:

His is the final responsibility.
His is the ultimate decision in any course of action.
He can never be complacent.
He must be humble; the elements keep him so.
He must prove himself to his peers over and over again throughout his career, or seek another job.
He must exude a quiet but magnetic confidence in his own ability and his aircraft.
He must create an aura of efficiency and capability such that the passengers stream on and off the aircraft without even a thought about what is occurring at the front of the aircraft.
Finally, he must be ready during every second of his working life to defeat the ultimate emergency he may encounter at any time."
These responsibilities are recognised in the definition of his title of "Captain", which means "in command" and as such legally the final responsibility for the safety of the aircraft rests solely with the pilot in command.

It is these professional responsibilities that not only make pilots "Sui Generis", but also worth every cent of their pay and conditions.

In a sense, pilots are the stewards of an airline's three most valuable assets; it's passengers, it's aircraft (worth up to $200+ million each) and the public's confidence in the corporate identity of the airline. As such, unpalatable though it might be to some airline managers and civic leaders who think "pilots are just glorified bus drivers", the most important people in any successful airline are its pilots, for on their backs rides the very survival of the airline.

FAB

7th Mar 2005, 19:44

MD12,

We were waiting for some news from you, and now you appear to say:

Why do you want more info if you don't believe me?. Better wait until the moment the selection process ends.

Please give us more details on the interview.
(If I had an interview, inscribe myself on Pprune for the first time 4 days ago to write 2 posts, I would be so excited that I would share my experience without hesitation)
Anyway it's easy to know if guys have already done the S/O interview, I will investigate.

So MD12, how was it?

Thanks.

Lil'pilot, thanks for your PM

QR133

7th Mar 2005, 20:51

Variblepitch and Nopoal

As I understand QR have requested further documentation from you (Frozen ATPL License)

As you mentioned that UK JAR does not have F.ATPL License separately, It Is CPL + MCC = F.ATPL.

My suggestion to you is to Include this explanation to QR when you resend the documention requested by them. (as i believe they requested this by 10 March 2005).

Good Luck

QR133

nopoal

9th Mar 2005, 13:33

Hi,

Thanks for the advise, I send them an e-mail explaining this. Hope that will be enough.

flaps 15% :cool:

FAB

16th Mar 2005, 13:27

Hello All,

I've just received an email with the standard letter enclosed from QR saying that I do not meet their minimum criteria for Captain/First Officer position, and the Reference number is for the F/O scheme.

As I am 23 and rated on the A320, I applied for both F/O end S/O positions on separate emails and I didn't receive any news for the S/O application yet.Do you think that my candidacy is out even for the Second Officer scheme?
Do you think I should call them to clarify the situation?

Do you know if they already chose their S/O?

Thanks

Maverick

17th Mar 2005, 17:20

Hey Superman,

You've Summed it up. Although the Airline game is a team game is a captain that truly 'Captains' The airline. The Commercial is an important factor to an airline as well, but it is the pilots who are the true backbone of an airline.
Take away all the other factors and just keep the desire to fly. If there was just ONE world airline, all we would need to operate it are the Operations, including the ATC. People would anyways buy a ticket online and queue up for their flight...( With Due respect to the Commercial division, who in todays competitive consumer market strive to do their best to offer the best product to the end consumer and serve their best interests).
Cheers to all the Pilots in the world. They are so much more than just bus drivers..( with due respect to labour, as every job holds its own respect).
Mav.

roy18

19th Mar 2005, 08:07

hey guy's ,,,,
if talking about the cadet pilot program in the qatar airways has any one applied for this program recently got any positive respond ...... i think that they closed the current program in the 1st of feb , and even didnt handle the huge amounts of applications they received . i really wounder if any one has been called for a meeting or any exams .....
when do they gonna declare for the " winners " of the program .:D :D :D :D

Edward555

20th Mar 2005, 02:36

Hey FAB....

I can feel for your frustration in getting out there and starting a good job in this industry, but I think I know the root of your problem. Basically, even though you have the A320 type rating...(and they may be interested initially), most companies are mandated with a minimum experience in term of flying hours by their insurance companies. Basically, to insure the "hull" and "life" value of any peticular flight the crew up front must not only hold a type rating but also have a certian amount of past experience. Where there may be some hope for you is in someone operating an A320 as a private operator not an commercial operator, and I am afraid on the A320, this is very unlikely. As a private operator, insurance is not as restrictive. So, as I can feel for what you want....to fly the bus, you may have to get out there and get some hours under your belt. If you can get your ATPL in under a couple of years, perhaps you can get away with renewing your 320 type with just a ride. Otherwise, if you have some cash left over, go and buy a type on a Navajo or a small jet. I actually believe you don't want to miss that stage in your career. You will build very good skills and have a blast at the same time. Dont' be in too much of a rush....you have lots of time. It is a slow progressive process...but you will have fun at each step. A mentor of mine once told me "don't rush it...one day you are here...and then it seems the next you are somewhere you never expected...and you will look back and wish you had more time"....and he was right.

So good luck!!!

Beeech19

20th Mar 2005, 04:51

Hi FAB;

I am also a 23 year old like yourself and i have to agree with the last post, you will be missing out on alot of fun and important experience if you move to fast, surely you became a pilot to enjoy it yeah?

Its a slow process but it's worth it, im flying in Africa and have worked my way through the ranks in our company and enjoyed it all the way! i started on C206's and Caravan's and currently a B1900 Captain, we fly tourists and get to see the most amazing places, places were jumbo's and busses can't go....my dream like your's is also to be a airline pilot for a large airline one day but why rush it? have some fun first mate!

All the Best:ok:

jj

cheklapsap

20th Mar 2005, 13:32

Beech19,

Well said. There's no hurry to get to the pointy end of the big jets.

I've been a airline captain now for many years and have flown jets of all sizes and makes up to the 400. However, I still look back on those wonderful days of flying to places where no Jumbo or Airbus was ever going to go.

If I was a betting man, I'd put my money on you getting to where I am before others who are rushing to buy ratings and expect a quick ride into an airline.

Enjoy your B1900 time, just don't get caught there by staying too long.

Cls

Hajj Man

20th Mar 2005, 13:57

Beeech19 and cheklapsap,

Both of you seem to have the right idea. Most of these new up coming pilots will be old before their time if they just do all this long haul, heavy, wide body, ILS only, Autopilot, FMS keypad punching flying and don't get to enjoy the NDB, Bush flying, running the cows off the runway with a low bypass, looking at the direction of the anchored boats to find out the wind direction ( also the cows grazing in the fields direction) Stal airplane flying and the really good "HANDS ON" flying that molds you to hard core actual flying an airplane.

You know if I could make the money of a big 747,A-340, A-380,777 captain and fly float planes in Vancouver to get that money, I would be there in a heart beat. But the truth is you really have to work all the way up the ladder through the ranks to appreciate and find out that where you were, or you thought you were at the bottom of the ladder is actually the most fun you will have flying an airplane in your career.

My opinion.

HM:ok:

FAB

21st Mar 2005, 14:37

Beeech19,

I agree with you. I would love to have the opportunity to fly even a piston twin engine. Since 4 years, I have been looking for a First Officer-copilot position in Canada even on a Navajo, but it's full of pilots and the requirements are more than 1000hrs TT (insurances) if you don't have a contact. I also applied in Africa, I have not enough flight hours, a friend of mine is Capt. there on the ATR42 and gave my resume directly to his company, nothing.

Most of my friends are instructors, they have no money to pay their bills; they have more than 2000hrs on single engine and don't find a job as a copilot.

I had the choice to: pay for an instructor rating, convert my license to JAR and go back home, or pay for a Jet Rating.
I did the A320 rating, and now people say that I must have hours on type....what else can I do, any suggestions?
Should I pay for hours on type (and then companies will tell me that I do not have enough hours)? Should I buy an Airbus to do some sightseeings?

I applied for an ad to be copilot on a C208 few days ago, they asked me to pay for the training 6000$Us.......to fly a C208!

Beeech19, if you have some infos for jobs in Africa, I would appreciate. I am immediately available.

Thank you

Hajj Man

21st Mar 2005, 17:34

Hi FAB,

I think that no hours on the type rating is your problem. I am sorry to tell you this but the type rating you paid for might not be good enough if you don't have hours to back it up. It might get you an interview somewhere, someday but i think you need to have some experience backing your newly bought type rating.

Not sure how much hours you have total but i would think a type is no good without hours on other airplanes of same or close to same take off weight will help.

good luck.

I also think QR are still a few months to a year away from getting this cadet thing on the right track. They are short listing people right now and trying to see who is going to make the short, short listing next.

HM:ok:

Beeech19

23rd Mar 2005, 07:31

Fab;

Send me your CV, my email in your PM, not promising anything but at least ill have it incase i come across something for you.

My suggestion is for you to go to Maun, Botswana next year February(as its too late now) with a C206/C208 rating and see the guys there, they only employ pilots that are there pre season(tourism season), its competitive but if your rated you got a good chance. They fly alot in that time and you should rack up approx 1000hrs + in two seasons, go visit the Campfire and Africa forums for more info.

A C208 rating will cost you $2000-3000 in South Africa, you just need a validation which is straight forward. I know Solenta(DHL) employ foreign pilots on SA validation for contract work in West Africa on 208's or $15 0000 will get you a ATR42 rating and a job with them. Also try Precision Air in Tanzania, i know they looking for guys for their ATR's but have to fund own rating. Its sad but that's the trend the industry is following, at least you wont be bonded!

Good luck bud:ok:

jj

nopoal

23rd Mar 2005, 07:51

Hi everyone,

FAB check your PM.

Ciao

flaps 15% :cool:

Rosbif

23rd Mar 2005, 20:12

If you weren't all so busy buying airbus ratings, you'd have the time (and the money) to build your careers the old fashioned way. Hard work, sacrifice, dedication and integrity. Build some skill and character along the way.
Since you have decided to prostitute yourselves and everyone else in the profession you only have yourselves to blame. You know who you are. No sympathy from here.
QR are clowns and don't live on the same planet as the rest of us. Normally when they recruit, they already know which people they want. (Nepotism) The application process is just for "optics".

If it sounds too good to be true, well, that's what it is.
Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck. -- It's a duck.

:{ (Aaaaahh. That's better. Rant over)

sonny

4th Apr 2005, 20:05

Hi guys,

I just received an email from Qatar stating that i've been shortlisted for an interview in London for the Second Officer/Cadet Pilot position. I know a lot of guys applied so just wanted to share this news with you and with hope. Good Luck to every one.

:ok:

BigGeordie

5th Apr 2005, 05:01

Would you mind letting us know what sort of experience level you have?

KLMInstructor

5th Apr 2005, 07:56

I know 2 guys going that have just completed an integrated course, both 250 hours but with degrees in mechanical engineering. The are both going to the London selection late April.

Holland

5th Apr 2005, 12:39

250 hours = 185 hours

Interview on the 21 and 22 of april

Lil' Pilot

5th Apr 2005, 13:43

@ Holland,

Congrats with the invitation. It's a great opportunity! Do you also have some kind of degree? That would confirm that they prefer applicants with some sort of university degree.

Anyway, best of luck!!

sonny

5th Apr 2005, 15:29

220 hrs + degree in Business

housewife

5th Apr 2005, 17:48

Also i applied, have 2 uni degrees 1 seince and 1 mechanical engineer. Also my husband is flying for qatar airways, so imliving in Doha. Have froozen ATP, with mcc and everything only just 250h, but that was not enough, they told us that they lowered the age limit to 27 during selektion. Can somebody confirm that?

Wath do they want lots of degrees and 21 years old?

But wish everybody goodluck,think good, here is not heaven.

Qatari515

5th Apr 2005, 23:15

Maybe they want you to be able to write english in a proper way????

I am sorry but this was just too bad...:hmm:

dashti

6th Apr 2005, 05:30

reply to: housewife

from the beginning it was 29 years old regards to cadet pilots. I'am not sure maybe they lowered the age to 27. And the priority for degree holder & experience pilot then Min. education i.e Secondary school

Holland

6th Apr 2005, 07:47

Details from both of us

1e both KLM Flight Academy students.
2e both approx. 185 hours.
3e Bachelor and Master degree (both Technical studies).
4e both 26 years old.

Finished last augustus at the KLM Flight Academy.

End of may BA selection. And mayby this summer KLM selection.

housewife

6th Apr 2005, 10:03

Thanks for help qatari 515,

but english is not big thing here if i listen to the anouncements i hear from cockpit!Hope you do better. Anyway I just got sick of everything here, so they can have there job!

Sorry that english is not my mother language and didnt study any languages.

vfenext

6th Apr 2005, 16:23

Qatari515 you arrogant nob! Show respect for a lady who had the courage to post here. As someone who has english as a first language I suggest you read back over your own post, the english is not correct. Your PA's must be a laugh a minute. You obviously fit in nicely in the QR culture..

Skyg

6th Apr 2005, 16:41

I'm sorry but i think that you Europeans Kids that never worked before, as I can see.... gonna last in Doha as much as a year, if you do.

You'll make your basic hours and you'll surely flee to a western place, to have a pleasent life.

Good Choice QR! ... Let's see how much this people last!....

QR133

6th Apr 2005, 22:13

Hi everyone,

This is for the 20 candidates that have been selected for the S/O interview in late April in London.

I have some useful information regarding the selection.
If you are interested please PM me and I will give it to you.

Aero Arne please check your PM.

Good Luck and hope to see you online soon

QR133

:ok:

variablepitch

6th Apr 2005, 22:16

QR133 please check your PM's

QR133

6th Apr 2005, 22:30

Housewife

Quote
Anyway I just got sick of everything here, so they can have there job!
--------
What kind of attitude is that !!! at least you could mention good luck to them, if you are sick of everything don't make us sick with you please.

SKYg
Quote
I'm sorry but i think that you Europeans Kids that never worked before, as I can see....
-------------------------------
Well for your information at least European kids as you mentioned them have been selected from over 2000 applicants.

I hate de-motivated people who try to de-motivate the others.
That's another reason I ask the successful applicants to PM me.
because so many de-motivated people will spoil it.

GOOD LUCK
QR133

Variablepitch,

Please check your PM.
QR133

sonny

7th Apr 2005, 09:01

QR133 please check your PM's

Sonny

QR133

7th Apr 2005, 14:01

GulfStream 550
Holland
sonny
Bartman

CHK your PM
QR133

ever_flying

7th Apr 2005, 15:41

Holland,

You mentionned

End of may BA selection

However, I have read on BA web site :

Currently all future British Airways pilots are recruited through our Direct Entry Pilot Scheme This is only for those who already have flying expertise, either gained with HM Services or in the commercial aviation industry.

:ooh: :ooh:

How can you do to take BA selection?

Lil' Pilot

7th Apr 2005, 15:49

Maybe KLS arranged something for it's graduated students with BA.

Holland

8th Apr 2005, 07:04

BA selected I think 5 Flight academies all over Europe. KLM Flight Academy is one of them. Currently around 20 students of the KLM Flight Academy are waiting to go to London for the selection proces. BA also anounced that they need more pilots and again selected the KLM Flight Academy to ask for more students from the Academy.

housewife

8th Apr 2005, 09:54

Qr 133

Dont take me wrong,I allready said, goodluck to everybody in my first writing.
But also I want to let them know that this counrty and this company is not all that perfect.
Grass always greener other .... but here is desert????

But everybody has to decide for them selfs, we did also come here, but for us it was mistake.

Goodluck

mark Tuk

9th Apr 2005, 04:57

anyone want any interview help for QTR interview...feel free to PM me. Must have done since something right...got the job!! :8

just an interesting point QR133...second officer...and an ATPL..very helpful advice from one so qualified!:yuk:

Skyg

9th Apr 2005, 05:53

Hey Qr133,

For god sake stop being officialist with QR...

All of us know that is one the worst companies to work for, because of its lack of Human Resources and CRM.

I didn't wish anything bad to this guys, what I SAID is that they are not gonna last long in QR...

Simply, because EUROPEANS DO NOT last long in QR.

WHOEVER has the chance to leave, even for less money, DOES IT!

Just that. A fact. :hmm:

scrat

10th Apr 2005, 06:53

QR133
Hi Please check your PM
thanks

bartman

12th Apr 2005, 10:04

QR133,

please check your pm.

tnx

Qatari515

14th Apr 2005, 15:48

Maybe you are a bit overqualified????

Face it, only 27 years old and yet you have allready all these things going for you....

Besides that, if all this is truth, what the h**** are you looking for in QR?????

:mad:

cj3000

17th Apr 2005, 11:11

QR133 please check your private mail.

Lil' Pilot

22nd Apr 2005, 10:19

Bringing this topic back on top!

If I am correct, the interviews in London where this week? Anyone care to share some experiences? Did you get any additional information about the scheme?

Greetz,

Lil' (curious)

waitingforajob

5th Jun 2005, 18:31

does any one know what a HPL Certificate is?

concordino

6th Jun 2005, 09:35

I think you might be referring to " Human Performance and Limitations" ATPL subject.

Good Luck

Barcadi

11th Oct 2005, 00:10

hello
know that this page is for pilots but cant find answers elsewhere so hope u might b able to help

am a girl looking for flying school...heard that if u graduate from emirates flying school they'll secure u a job in ek ....same goes for qatar flying school n' qr

true??

if so is there any prejudice towards sex of pilots in this regions

thx a lot

Cerberus

11th Oct 2005, 07:16

EK has no sex prejudice at all. We've been going over 20 years now but have yet to find a women in the entire world that is suitable to operate as Flight Deck! Having said that EK have had some girls pass the selection but the powers that be decided that they would not be in the best interests of the airline. So as I said no prejudice at all.

As to cadets, there are a couple of national girls in the pipeline but I wouldn't count on the floodgates opening anytime soon.

Barcadi

11th Oct 2005, 17:34

what about foreign girl want to study there....any chance??
thx

cirrus81

11th Oct 2005, 18:25

There is only one flying school in dubai, emirates flying services. and i am not sure if they accomodate foriegn students...and if you graduate from there doesnt mean emirates will take you as a pilot with only 200 hours as fresh graduate...regardless of u being girl or boy or any other airline for that matter..
its pretty expensive too....

Barcadi

11th Oct 2005, 19:03

thx for all replies
for QR i heard they'll take fresh graduates into the airline if u study at Qatar Aeronautical College

true??

icelady

11th Oct 2005, 21:04

hey!
I'm also interested to get some info. what kind of details do you need to know?

Barcadi

12th Oct 2005, 09:43

yes what details u need to know

Fly7sp

17th Oct 2005, 21:32

Hi, i apply 1 month ago as a cadet pilot with qatar airways and i recieve a mail 2 weeks after saying that they concluded a shortlisting of cadet pilots and they suggest to me to apply later when they will advertise again.

does anyone receive the same e-mail,and i don't know if it's a good thing to get this e mail or it's the normal procedure to respond to all applying pilots.

regards!!

Mark_ms

17th Jan 2006, 17:34

Hi I am recently graduated Modular CPL/IR person with an expat upbringing, lived in Qatar from one to thirteen.

I have been reading the thread running on

"Qatar airways cadet pilot/second officer holding pool"

I would like to know is this scheme one that a low hour pilot such as myself; my total is approx 250hrs, completed my IR 12/12/05 all my training has been with CABAIR College of air Training could apply to?

I am aware that airlines in the Middle East are booming, and that new aircraft orders are at an all time high. However I am also aware that the majority look for a high level of experiance and so are normally out of the reach of someone like myself. I am also equally aware that the number of people at this experiance level must be reducing (at least I assume) and so a scheme such as Qatar airways makes sense.
Would appreciate any constructive and relevant information on this scheme and others like it that people might have, especially those currently with Qatar Airways.

Thanks for your time.

portsharbourflyer

17th Jan 2006, 20:21

Yes, alot of the candidates interviewed for the second officer scheme were low hour pilots.

The requirements in the advert last year, were ICAO recognised CPL/IR with frozen ATPL from a recognised school, under 29, preference given to candidates with tertiary education in science or engineering.

However it is not a "continuous" scheme. The last time the scheme was advertised was in Flight International january 2005 (interviews held in April and November). I don't know if Qatar will be running the another second officer scheme, one assumes if they do, they will advertise in flight international again.

Mark_ms

17th Jan 2006, 20:29

Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated.

Was wondering why I had not seen this scheme advertised.

I'll have to keeper a closer eye on Flight International.

Do you happen to know weather there website released information about the scheme?

And if you don't mind, how do you know a lot of low hour guys where interviewed?

Cheers.

butzel

18th Jan 2006, 06:22

hi mark,

i was in london for the interview and I have 1900 hrs of flight time on SEP. The other guy in my group that made it had experience on jet (CRJ). I dont know about the other groups!

Wish you good luck!

MEA321

10th Mar 2006, 11:20

Good news for Lebanese aviation hopefuls,

Middle East Airlines - Airliban has just announced their first cadet pilot program for this year. Some changes from last year include a lower minimum age for applications which is now at 19 years old. Also female applications will also be accepted this time around.

MEA Cadet Pilot Program 2006 (http://www.mea.com.lb/MEA/English/Misc/CadetPilotTrngProg2006.htm)

Successful applicants are sent to do an integrated JAA ATPL course at Flight Training Europe in Jerez, Spain under the provisions of the UK CAA.

MEA is currently facing a large number of retirements in the coming 5 years and needs to replace something like 50 of the 122 pilots currently on roster.

There are plans in the near future for fleet expansion. An A330 will join next year and will most likely be a lease from ILFC. Also there are plans for regional jets/props in the coming years however this is yet to be confirmed and is a developing idea.

Good luck to all who apply!

concordino

10th Mar 2006, 17:35

Wael ? Is that you ? :cool:

alfredo sauce

11th Mar 2006, 06:50

just a question: MEA is an airline with a fleet of 9 aircraft, is it nessisary to have 122 pilots?
I'm not familiar with what the average ratio of pilots to aircraft at other airlines is.

Aer_Lingus

11th Mar 2006, 11:30

Hello, Im an Irish National with an Irish passport living in Dubai, but i am born in Beirut.
I am wondering if there is any chance that i could get accepted into the MEA cedet programme.
I am going to graduate from an American system school in May.

thanks

MEA321

15th Mar 2006, 07:44

I have been recieving many private messages and emails from people who are non-Lebanese and wishing to apply to the MEA cadet pilot program.

Let me emphasize this so that there are no further confusions. Middle East Airlines Airliban will not accept applications from non-Lebanese applicants because it does not suit the airline at this time to take foreign pilots.

MEA is a small airline serving Lebanon with only 9 Airbus aircraft. Currently there are no foreign (non Lebanese) pilots flying for MEA. In the early days we had many many pilots and flight attendants from all over the world working at MEA.

However MEA today is only catering to the Lebanese population because the Lebanese youth needs a guiding light to move towards and companies like MEA create hope for future dream jobs such as the position of flight crew.

A380_xyz

29th Mar 2006, 18:31

I wonder why...

alfredo sauce

29th Mar 2006, 23:17

"I wonder why...."

I think it’s only fair. Correct me if I'm wrong but for all the airlines around the world that offer cadet pilot programs they only take their own nationals. In Europe for cadet programs airlines only take EU nationals. In Asia Cathy only takes Hong Kong nationals, Singapore and Malaysian Airlines only takes their nationals, and same applies for Qantas, Emirates, and Qatar. So it’s only fair that MEA would only take Lebanese nationals

meadreamer

7th Apr 2006, 21:32

hi
can you post some questions....?
thanks

meadreamer

15th Apr 2006, 17:24

i received the invitation for the written exam today !!!!!!!!!! which means my applications is accepted !!!!!!

alfredo sauce

16th Apr 2006, 03:48

yeah same here!!! Ahhhh may 2nd!!!! :mad: I GOTTA GET PACKIN!!!!

good luck to everyone :ok:

meadreamer

18th Apr 2006, 12:34

JS3 : can u give u some advices
what type of questions did you have in math and physics : calculation, definition, long or short questions .............??????????
was the spacial, abstract and mechanical reasoning difficult ?
thanks

alfredo sauce

19th Apr 2006, 20:49

meadreamer: Check your PM

JS3: Glad to hear that you've been reinvited.

Hey everyone!!!!

I've spent sometime searching through some of the threads on this website and I found a few things that might help us for the spatial, abstract and mechanical reasoning tests, and at a later stage the pilot aptitude test. They were posted by people applying to other pilot programs.

-This is a sample of the spatial, abstract and mechanical reasoning test used by Qantas:

http://www.qantas.com.au/infodetail/...ent/QTests.pdf

-This is the website for a company called Morrisby (according to the threads I’ve read) they make the mechanical tests for a lot airlines (and other companies) they even have a sample on their website:

http://www.morrisby.com/test_takers_guide/sample_questions.asp

-The company that does the pilot aptitude tests for many airlines (and maybe even MEA) is PILAPT, on their website they describe the test step by step, but unfortunately you can’t try it. (it will be helpful in the later stages)

http://62.3.209.83/pilapt/Header.htm

-And of ALL the places I searched the only pilot aptitude test I know of that you can take for free is here:

http://www.epst.com/

These tests don’t seem that bad, actually I think they are pretty fun. I’m sure MEA's must be similar in some respect and they cant be that much harder. My biggest worry is the Bacc. II math+physics exams, because from what my relatives tell me the school system here in Canada is a bit behind the Lebanese one, but I’m going to study(my ass off) and hope for the best.

Anyways, Its been pretty hectic for me. I just wrote my last university exam Tuesday and I got the invitation for the phase 1 tests on the Sunday before. My flight leaves Toronto tomorrow. I'll be in Beirut on the 21st of April. I’m going to spend most of the time before the exam date, studying, but I would like to meet up with you guys sometime in before the exam.

Good luck guys, I hope that helped and I hope to meet some of you before the exam.

-This is a pretty Awsome video of an MEA A321 landing over Beirut:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOw_NG0PYiQ#comment

FTE28111

19th Apr 2006, 21:35

guys you have a long long way ahead of you... and a word of advice, don't get over-excited about this selection process. because at a certain point a lot of you even the highly qualified people can get cicked out due to a very simple reason just like maybe 1 Kg overweight or some blood unstability or anything. so don't buy it until you sign the contract.

yeah same here!!! Ahhhh may 2nd!!!! :mad: I GOTTA GET PACKIN!!!!

good luck to everyone :ok:

FTE28111

19th Apr 2006, 21:38

do not attempt to study.
that's what i did at least.
it is either you know the topics or not. and most of the questions are logic related.
or basic mathematical stuff
ye3neh mashi ...

hi
can you post some questions....?
thanks

Hhphenix

19th Apr 2006, 21:48

How is Jerez this day?And the beautiful spanish women!!!:ok:Tell them them at least that english test is the most important with the spatial one!!!

do not attempt to study.
that's what i did at least.
it is either you know the topics or not. and most of the questions are logic related.
or basic mathematical stuff
ye3neh mashi ...

meadreamer

20th Apr 2006, 10:42

Hhphenix & FTE28111

Are you MEA cadets ?

bye

meadreamer

20th Apr 2006, 11:38

anyone know the number of applicants for this year???

alfredo sauce

28th Apr 2006, 15:07

anyone know the number of applicants for this year???

I was at MEA's headquarters the other day and i was told is that it was
85. I dont know if this is how many applications they recieved or how many are sitting for the exam. they weren't clear at all.

meadreamer

2nd May 2006, 19:55

so how did you do guys ?
i personnaly did good in every thing but less good in physics,
mechanical , abstract and spatial were very easy
quick math was also quite easy

alfredo sauce

3rd May 2006, 06:44

i found pretty much everything easy except the math and the physics. The math i havent touched in 2 years so i was strugling to remember all that fun calc and the physics i found out in the late part of the exam that they provided a formula sheet, they didnt even tell us!!!
Even though i found the math and physics a bit hard, i really dont think they were that challenging as tests.
And funny enough the english test was easy, but i think i messed up the part with the tape conversations because i started to get tired and loss my concentration.

FTE28111

3rd May 2006, 21:07

"And funny enough the english test was easy, but i think i messed up the part with the tape conversations because i started to get tired and loss my concentration.[/quote]

man you think that you did well in english ... what about "loss of concentration" if they see a similar mistake in your writing they'll expell you immediately hehe. just kidding. just a word for all of you guys. i know you did well but this filtration process will only the people who pass all the tests (english, math, physics and the IQ reasoning stuff) just like back when i was doing these tests they said that they wanted to recruit 30 people but only 50 passed this test and got filtered and a long process that still to come now for you. so eventhough you did well in the reasoning and english, but unfortunately the math and physics also counts. sorry to say that. yeah anyways if you want any additional information guys just ask for it ...
wish you luck

meadreamer

3rd May 2006, 22:38

what are the grades on each test ( or average) that might let you get a pass for this first exam ?

meadreamer

4th May 2006, 00:43

where was the FTE selection part done ? also in AUB ?

meadreamer

13th May 2006, 16:12

hi guys
i have just been called by MEA : they said that i have paassed the exam and i will have my medical this tuesday...!!!!!!!!! WOWOW.....he told me that we will receive emails today

alfredo sauce

2nd Jun 2006, 11:44

Well boys,

its been over a month since the intial exam and still no reply for me from MEA, oh well.......i thought they would have at least let the people who failed know their results. Anyways I just want to wish everyone who passed good luck and i hope you all get through, and please keep us updated on the process of the selection and how everything is going. As for me I'm just going to change my University major to Math + Physics, try again the next round and hope for the best....i'm not giving up, i want this very badly....but for now i'm going to work on my tan.

Good Luck guys
Keep me updated

Boukra ba shuofkoun bi MEA

Jinkster

4th Jun 2006, 13:03

Just wondered if anyone knew the requirements that Qatar looked for in Second Officers?

Many thanks.

Jinkster

Mach_Krit

8th Jun 2006, 08:18

at the time I applied there was no necessity of being a gulf national.

below the age of 29...icao license...tertiary education...something like that.

Mach_Krit

8th Jun 2006, 09:53

holding pool...swimming...swimming...and maybe sinking! LOL!

boeingbus2002

8th Jun 2006, 11:38

What is the latest of those who had SO interviews in London back in Nov 2005? Some were accepted for the holdpool, but are they still there? Some were aggreived at having to wait further!!? So have they managed to find something else?

Mach_Krit

8th Jun 2006, 13:10

boeingbus,

those selected into the holdingpool 2005 are all still swimming...and swimming, and swimming. some have taken on other jobs...wonder how many will still be available when qatar decides they know what to do with the guys in the holding pool.

indonep

7th Jul 2006, 03:38

at the time I applied there was no necessity of being a gulf national.

below the age of 29...icao license...tertiary education...something like that.

HEY! there,
I am ex cabin crew from Qatar Airways(quit this jan) currently in the states for a CPL. Please let me know if possible the bare minimum requirements for second officers/ cadet pilots at qatar airways.
NO!!!--- i dont belong to any of the gulf countries!!!

will greatly appreciate you reply.
Blue Skies!!

Glorified Donkey

7th Jul 2006, 04:20

They said bare requirements, but they had guys with 2000hrsTT with ATPL applying and thus were probably one the ones that got in. Remember when they say minimum 250TT, there are usually guys with 1000hrs applying.

Mach_Krit

7th Jul 2006, 06:10

I know of one guy with only 350 hrs TT... I dont really know what the criteria were to pass but as my forespeaker said, there were lots of guys with >1000hrs and even some with airline/jet experience. But the worst thing that can happen to you if you apply is that they say no thanks. so no loss for you mate.

still wondering what they are going to do with the guys/gals in the holding pool. its been 8 months since then and not a word. they did have further interviews in april...so I suppose they will need us at one point in time.

wish you guys all the best of luck!!

Mach_Krit

13th Jul 2006, 07:56

anyone here anything new on this subject? rumours? etc?

AKAFresh

25th Jun 2007, 12:26

Hi all,

Does anyone know when the next cadet pilot / second officer selection program is for Qatar Airways?

Does this program offer places to pilots with UK CPL/IR with low hours i.e 240hrs but with no UAE national/citizenship??

Fresh.

speedsalive

26th Jun 2007, 17:26

any info on this would b much appreciated
cheers

portsharbourflyer

27th Jun 2007, 08:15

The last Qatar Airways SO scheme was back in 2005 (read back through this thread), and was advertised in Flight International in Jan or Feb 2005. I have not seen the scheme advertised since. So I have no idea if they are still running a SO scheme.
At my interview group the three main nationalities were Canadian, English and Brazilian; therefore middle Eastern citizenship was not required.
I applied in Feb 2005 and was interviewed in November 2005, at the time I applied I was low houred modular (270 hours), however I did hold an aero engineering degree and I was also under the 29 yr age limit at the time. Obvioulsy I wasn't succesful because I am now a flight instructor.
One batch was interviewed in London and another in Doha, but I hardly heard about anyone that actually started the scheme. The requirements are already stated in this thread, but I will repeat them here for clarity.
It simply said frozen ATPL from recognised school, with preference for those with a tertiary education in a science or engineering, under 29 years of age. Possibility it may have mentioned management subjects as acceptable as well.