Complex Conversions

[DBisDogOne]

Hi PPRuNers

Just a query about complex (S/E) conversions/differences training, sorry if this has been done to death before but I couldn't find any info already on forum. I'd like to do diff training on a single engine complex a/c, eg: an Arrow, I'm NOT interested going CPL (unusually, I have a decent job that I actually enjoy! Rare, I know), it's just to take advantage of better hiring opportunities for pleasure flying. I am also considering doing an IMC at the same time if that were possible/practical.

I've about 130hrs TT on a PPL(A) +Night and have flown (mainly) PA28 with some C150/2 & C172. I was thinking of doing it abroad (usual £££ reasons!) combining it with some regular touring flying as part of a holiday. I considered the US for the best availability but I do not want to (& won't)go through all that Visa/M1/TSA crap again.:* I think I can get a visa waiver for just the flying/'Doing hours' bit but if I'm actually training then things may be the same as ab-initio PPL???? With all the above hassle.:ugh:

If I do it in a non-JAA country (eg:Canada) does it still count? I realise I'd have a check-ride once back in the UK, that's fair enough. (Any IMC would obviously have to be done at a JAA approved school I understand that).

So, any advice? (not concerned with sex & travel...), :) recomms on where to try, either abroad or bite the bullet any stay in this country.

[Chilli Monster]

You only need the visa if you're training for the issuance of a licence or rating. So - if you wanted to get a complex sign off in the states, then do some touring in one then you can do it on the visa waiver scheme (I take it from your other comments you already have an FAA licence of some description - if not, no probs there either).

As to where to go - well, where do YOU want to go?

[Whopity]

(Any IMC would obviously have to be done at a JAA approved school I understand that).

WHY? Its not a JAA rating! No approval required.

[DBisDogOne]

Ah, thanks for that CM, :ok: I didn't realise that was the case. I'm obviously confusing 'Differences' with an actual rating issue. If it's just visa waver, I may go there as I fancied touring part of the states anyway. (I don't have a FAA licence, I did my JAA PPL there a couple of years back).

Thanks Whopity, you're right, I've kind of decided to do this in UK later in the year anyway.

[gcolyer]

if you dont have an FAA license then you wont be able to fly as P1 so that kind of rains on your touring parade.

As far as IMC goes, you would need an M1 VISA for that.

Rule of thumb:

Rating or license=VISA

Endorsements (Complex,taildragger)=No VISA

[Chilli Monster]

if you dont have an FAA license then you wont be able to fly as P1 so that kind of rains on your touring parade.

No it doesn't - just means one minor thing to sort out before you go. Once you know when you're going you need to tell the CAA (and pay them £38?) so they'll release your details to the FAA, and inform the FAA where you would like to pick up your FAA certificate.

Do a search on "FAA Licence verification" or PM me and I'll go through the process for you (don't have access to the various weblinks from my phone!). It's an easy paperwork exercise.

[gcolyer]

Chilli,

I wouldn't say it is minor, but it is a fairly painless round of hoop jumping.

[Chilli Monster]

DB - here's the procedure

1) Read http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/foreign_license_verification/
submitting the form which it links to.

2) At the same time send http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/FORSRG1160.PDF to the CAA (current charge is £39, use http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/FORSRG1187.pdf to make payment)

I would recomend sending all by fax, not snail mail.

To find the most convenient FSDO do a search on http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/field_offices/fsdo/

When you have your letter back from the FAA saying you can have a certificate present yourself at the nominated FSDO (Give them a ring just before so they're expecting you) with your UK licence and medical certificate and they'll finish off the paperwork, giving you a temporary US certificate (your permanent one wil arrive in the post).

It really is that easy.

[DBisDogOne]

Thanks for all that Guys! :ok::ok::ok:

gcolyer: That clears up the visa issue in one sentence! Nice one. I was sort of aware of the need for a 'Airmans Certificate' or whatever the correct title is. When in the US doing my PPL, I recall one of the instructors complaining about the need to jump through massive hoops if he wanted to fly in Europe but "You guys can fly over here with a simple certificate for a few bucks" as he put it. I didn't take alot of notice at the time so didn't ask any questions.

CM: Followed the links, first class, much obliged, tells me all I need to know when the time comes and surprisingly straightforward. All I need to do now is decide when and where. Any suggestions as to where in the US is best? I'm open to ideas.

[englishal]

As far as IMC goes, you would need an M1 VISA for that.
Not sure that you would. An easy test is "will you be flying with an FAA examiner?" If the answer is yes, then Visa required - there a few exceptions which also means a visa is not always required (CPL for existing PPL holder for example). A CAA IMC rating doesn't exist in the eyes of the FAA and so therefore a Visa is NOT required. You may get told by a CAA approved school in the USA that you do need a visa, but this is just them covering their arses.

[gcolyer]

M1 is definatley required for IMC. Jumped the hoops for it last year. Same for Multi.

[BigAl's]

Don't bother going to the US just to do a complex single. It's not worth it. I did mine at bournemouth in an arrow, thoroughly enjoyed it, and it was only a few hours (3 or so).

Best regards,
Bigals:ok:

[DBisDogOne]

The main reason I considered doing the complex abroad was that I was thinking of doing it as part of a flying/touring holiday. I agree, going all the way to the US just to do five or so hours complex doesn't make sense. I will check out the cost at Bournemouth but availability of their Arrows (used for CPL by BCFT) may be limited.

[gcolyer]

I certainly would not bother going to the states just for a few complex training. However you could go and lump in a load of difference training:

Complex
Taildragger
Seaplane

But it is more wise to do an IMC or multi at the same time, or a block of hours. Just remember it is about flying the most cost effective way for your pocket.

[BigAl's]

Ah haaa! I wasn't going to name names, but you are quite right, I did my complex with BCFT, did it in two hits in their arrow HJ, really good experience! No problem getting slots after work in the evening. :ok:

Thoroughly concur with gc's comments above.

[englishal]

M1 is definatley required for IMC
Maybe by the flying school you went to, to CTA, but legally not.

[DBisDogOne]

gc: Agggghhh Stop it! Don't tempt me with seaplanes :cool:, I've wanted to fly floats since I was about 10 years old!!! It's so tempting to go and do this for absolutely no good reason other than the fact I just want to! Similarly with taildraggers, sadly I can't afford to do the lot, (unless I find myself that rich woman I've been promising myself of course ;)) so have to pick and choose what I do.
Although, you never know........

[gcolyer]

DBisDogOne

I say go for it, sod the money you can't take it with you!!!. Taildragger won't cost to much maybe 5-10 hours. Seaplane is gonna cost a bit more, but then picture the Maldivian holidays or other exotic island hopping fun you can have. And then settling down int he evening sitting on the float with your bottle of wine and fishing kit.

I think I just sold it to myself:ugh:

Oh and forget the rich woman...she will eventualy cost you more!!

[DBisDogOne]

GC: You are obviously Satan in disguise, :eek: I have got religion in the last few minutes (after thirty odd years of Atheism) so when I'm asked "Why did you do your floats ticket?" I can answer (in my best Amer-can) "The devil made me do it sir!!!!", "Ahhh am a weak man who has been tempted Lord" (add tears & fake emotion here) etc....

Got to go now and do some Googling, something to do with, Ahem, Seaplane ratings..... or should I get on with some work which some nice people are paying me to do????:ooh:

Unfortunatly, I fear you may be right about the rich woman but we all live in hope eh?

[gcolyer]

You could give these guys a call. They say they do seaplane ratings. And thier prices look pretty good.


http://www.cambrian-aero.co.uk/index.html

[BigAl's]

Oh hell.... now you're all getting me into it :bored:!! :}

[gcolyer]

Do you think we could get a group discount if we all booked together?

[DBisDogOne]

Think I've seen the ads for this lot in the mags, looks like fun I have to say, may consider this in the future as their prices seem fairly reasonable. Reckon I still may do my complex first tho'.

[vortexracer]

Can anybody help me. I hold a jaa ppl and would like to also get a faa license for some intended flying in january 2008. Now here is the problem, my current medical is "suspended" as I had a heart attack in April. It looks promising to get it back but I wont know for sure until November (6 months post event) when it would be too late to apply (hmm). Now according to my aviation medial doc my medical is still current but with a temporary restriction. Given that the faa proces will take a few months I am keen to apply. When I look on the faa forms there is a tick box which asked about medical restrictions. I am just not sure of they (faa) will take a dim view if I apply and it might cause more trouble in the long term. Anybody got any experiences?

[PH-UKU]

Alternatively you could try
this one (http://www.scotlandonfloats.com) :E

[gcolyer]

I can highly reccomend floats!

Whilst in New York last month I decided to bite the bullet and go for it. Absolute quality. I done it in a Cessna 172 with a 180hp converstion. It is only 6 hours flying plus 1 exam.

[sternone]

Unfortunatly, I fear you may be right about the rich woman but we all live in hope eh?

Not at all, marry a rich woman for the money and you pay for the rest of your life....