Flying from Wales to Ireland.....

[lm07]

anyone know of any strips near Wexford ?
Is Waterford the nearest landing point from West Wales ?

[dublinpilot]

Waterford is the nearest airport, coming from Wales. There probably are some stips in Wexford. I don't have my flight guide to hand, but no doubt someone else will, and will be able to inform you on strips in Wexford.

What you really need is Kevin Glynns Flight guide (not the Pooleys one). This has all the strips marked in it.

What length of strip do you need?

dp

[lm07]

something that will take seriously heavy metal..... C-152

where does one get this guide you speak of ?

[London Mil]

SAAC Field - N52:17.732 W06:40.886. 600m Grass.
Killoughrim - N52:30.972 W06:40.002. 320m Grass.
Morriscastle - N52:31.013 W06:15.815. 350m Grass.
As dp says, try and get a copy of Glynns (http://www.learn2fly.ie/VFR%20Guide.htm)

[PompeyPaul]

Brave man!

[lm07]

thanks for the info and the speed

[ContinentalC85]

When we flew from Haverfordwest , we landed first at Kilkenny...

[hoss72]

Don't you need to land at Waterford for customs and immigration clearance ??

[dublinpilot]

No customs required when coming from the UK per customs guidance. Some recent reports of customs asking strip owners to fax details of persons arriving from outside Ireland to them first.

No immigration requirements for arrivals from within the common travel area.

dp

[hoss72]

Sorry for delay with reply, I do not claim any particular expertise in this area so I checked with customs re the above specific query, they say a/c must land at an approved airport.
As for immigration same story, particularly if the people on board do not have UK passports, hence the need to fax crew and pax passport details in advance.
Two questions then.
1. Could these gentlemen be mistaken in their interpretation of the current legal requirements?
2. We know that customs and immigration officers meet scheduled flights from the UK so why would they allow private flights to land at other locations without any checks?

[dublinpilot]

ALMOST certain immigration is wrong. There was a big hulla belew here are few months ago about immigration. The press published reports that aircraft (private jets) were landing at Weston airport with no immigration checks. Weston didn't have airport of entry status, although they had applied for it.

After a couple of days of press reports, it transpired that immigration was only required for flights from outside the EU, and "very few" flights had come in from outside the EU, and the story died.

Customs didn't really feature in the story.

From any guidance I can find from customs seems to indicate that they have no power to stop intra EU flights to/from private strips, and nothing saying they must be notified. What I can find of the legislation agrees too. However as I said earlier there have been reports of them requesting notification of flighs to private strips.

Sorry I can't be more helpful. I think I'll write to them asking for their official position and the relevant legislation.

dp

[Flame]

"No immigration requirements for arrivals from within the common travel area"

Factually incorrect:=....this only applies to citizens of either the United Kingdom or citizens of the Republic of Ireland..all others require to be immigrated and MUST have either a government issued national identity card if European citizens or a passport:ok:

[dublinpilot]

Can you give a reference for that Flame?

I'm not disputing it, just having trouble finding the appropriate leglisation on this.

The only leglisation I can find exempts citizens from Ireland from passing through immigration (no matter where they are coming from). I've no doubt that I'm missing leglisation relation to the common travel area, and to the EU, and would appreciate if you could give me a reference to back up what you've said.

I also note that commerical flights between the UK/Ireland don't distinguish between British/Irish citizens on the flight and others on the flight...everyone on those flights are treated as domestic arrivals/departures.

dp

[Flame]

This from the "Citizens information board"..which I found after a quick check on google using "Common travel area"+ireland...there are lots more examples..

Information
A common travel area is in existence between Ireland and the UK (including the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man). There is no formal agreement between Ireland and UK regarding the common travel area and it is not provided for in legislation. The first legal recognition of the common travel area between Ireland and the UK is contained in the Treaty of Amsterdam.

Rules
The Common Travel Area means that there are no passport controls in operation for Irish and UK citizens travelling between the two countries. Since 1997, some controls are in effect on arrivals in Ireland from the UK but this does not mean that you are required to carry your Irish or UK passport with you when you travel between the countries. You must, however, carry an acceptable form of photo-identification, examples of which are listed below. (On arriving in Ireland you may sometimes be asked for valid official photo-identification such as a passport or driving licence which shows your nationality. This is to prove you are an Irish or UK citizen who is entitled to avail of the Common Travel Area arrangements.)

A valid passport
A driver's licence with photo
An international student card
A national ID card
A bus pass with photo
A Garda ID with photo
A work ID with photo
The Common Travel Area also involves some co-operation on matters relating to immigration issues. A third country national, for example, may be refused permission to enter Ireland if it is his or her intention to travel onwards to the UK and he or she would not qualify for admission to the UK under the (Aliens Amendment) Order, 1975.

Irish immigration officers have the power to carry out checks on people arriving in the State from the UK and to refuse them entry to the State on the same grounds as apply to people arriving from outside the Common Travel Area. These checks are carried out selectively

[dublinpilot]

Humm....

There is no formal agreement between Ireland and UK regarding the common travel area and it is not provided for in legislation.

Explains why I couldn't find the leglisation.

dp

[Mariner9]

Its what I've always done and will be doing again this weekend when I'm over for the Letterkenny fly-in.

Dont forget the GenDec for the return journey though :rolleyes:

[dublinpilot]

WR,

I have been in touch with both customs and immigration to try and clarify the situation.

Immigration's response was:
1. If a flight contains only Irish or UK citizens, and arrives into Ireland from anywhere in the common travel area (UK, Isle of Mann, Channel Islands) then they aren't interested in it, and it can land anywhere.
2. If a flight contains persons other than Irish or UK citizens but arrives from within the common travel area, then it must land an an airport with immigration facilities, and the non Irish/UK persons must present themselves to an immigration officer.
3. If the flight arrives from outside the common travel area, then it must land at an airport with immigration facilities, and all persons on board must present themselves to an immigration officer.

I have a letter from immigration confirming this, but I have to go back to them, as they failed to provide legislative references for this. I think they may be overly restrictive in respect of Irish citizens according to the leglisation that I have found, but that is their stated position.

Customs response was
1. Flights coming in from outside the EU must land at an airport of entry, and present to a customs officer.
2. Flights arriving from witin the EU, which happen to land at an airport with permanent customs facilites must present themselves to those customs facilities.
3. Flights from within the EU, landing at other airports they weren't concerned with up to now, but due to a number of recent events they are now concerned about. So they are in the process of getting every airport, airstrip and farm strip in the country registered with customs, which will in effect make them airports of entry. A pilot arriving into one of these strips will need do nothing more than let the airport operator know that they have arrived from an international destination. The airport operator will have certain duties to do for customs, but this is not of concern to the pilot, who has simply to inform the airport operator on arrival from an international destination.

Those airfields who do not want to take part in this (which customs expect to be a very small number) will have a letter of agreement with customs, which will provide for something very similar.

An airport operator may of course place additional restrictions on you, to facilitate them carrying out their role.

The timescale for getting these strips all registered with customs I am told is a matter of weeks rather than months, as it is almost completed.

I have a letter from customs confirming 1 and 2. Items 3 was confirmed to me in a phone call, with a promise of a further letter once the process is finalised.

I have suggested to them that a page on their website, or an info leaflet detailing this, would be very helpful.

I hope this is of some help to you.

dp

[Mariner9]

Not sure about Birr yet WR, Mrs M9's busy both this and next weekend, and two consecutive weekend solo jollys to Ireland would be stretching her patience :ouch:

Prolly drop into Birr this weekend though- the airfield mogas pump is very handy!

Might (PROB50) have a spare seat for Letterkenny this weekend if anyone's interested....

[Bluebeard777]

Dublinpilot, thanks for your research.

However there seems to be a logical disconnect between the Irish (i)
Customs and (ii) immigration requirements for flights to Ireland from outside the CTA, that land at small airfields that do not have customs/immigration services.

What, I wonder, is the purpose of Customs registering and developing procedures for dealing with such flights, if they are not permitted at all as far as immigration is concerned? :confused:

[Paul Bromley]

Can anyone point me to the act and section which requires 12hrs notice to Police port units for arrivals ?

Just had a bollocking and would like to see how wrong my actions were.

Thanks

Paul.

[Bluebeard777]

Paul,
see Terrorism Act 2000, Schedule 7 s.12:

" (3) Where an aircraft is employed on a journey to which this paragraph applies otherwise than to carry passengers for reward, the captain of the aircraft shall not permit it to call at or leave a port in Great Britain or Northern Ireland unless-
(a) the port is a designated port, or
(b) he gives at least 12 hours' notice in writing to a constable for the police area in which the port is situated (or, where the port is in Northern Ireland, to a member of the Royal Ulster Constabulary). "
.... etc

Note "gives .. notice ... to a constable". Very much trouble is caused by police forces seeking to insist in specific instances that valid notice has not been given because it was not received by a specific office or officer of that force.