View Full Version : Who's gonna fly your airlines' Bizjets?

Haulin' Trash
28th Jun 2001, 16:52
2 major airlines have announced plans to buy corporate jets including Virgin (Virgin JetSet). Initial orders have been placed buy a US carrier. See Paris reports. Others including BA, Delta and American are looking hard.

Who's gonna fly them under what contract?

This is coming to an airline near you soon.

Buz Off
28th Jun 2001, 17:13

Can you explain "Paris Reports"?

Do you just mean news reports about this from the Paris Air Show?

Haulin' Trash
28th Jun 2001, 17:17
Buz - yes, orders placed, flying starts in the US next year. Europe - VS next?

28th Jun 2001, 17:36
I think they will be flown by pilots.

28th Jun 2001, 18:13
E. Morse,

Not sure about that... where did you get that information ?

Shanwick Shanwick
28th Jun 2001, 18:40
The Virgin aircraft will be flown by Virgin Pilots on a Virgin contract. I'm led to believe they're to be based at either Luton or Northolt and operate to JFK, Seattle and Dubai initially. Due to commence autumn 2002.


28th Jun 2001, 20:08
Hmmm! Very interesting concept, presumably aimed at the elite corporate market who might otherwise fly mainline First Class but are becoming cheesed off with long check-in times and other frustrating delays caused by the lesser mortal majority in their midst.

Makes sense, and much cheaper than buying your own GV I suppose.

I think I like it. Hope my outfit follows suit in due course. Rather fancy the sharp end of a GV and the proposed routes.

Enter after the Virgin
29th Jun 2001, 00:35
presumably the space on the GV would be sold
by individual seat, and not a sole use charter.

First class cabin's these days are very private with little cabins effectivley, where as a GV's would have an open cabin set-up (or be very be claustrophobic/confined)

I can't see someone paying top dollar to share a PRIVATE jet transatlantic, as it becomes a contradiction in terms ?

I reckon about 15-20k rtn per seat ? for a LON-SEA

not sure how this compares with main line though

29th Jun 2001, 01:01
United Airlines = Fractional ownership.

Virgin /Jetset = Scheduled services from an airport close to London.

Qatar Airways start a schedule soon with an A319CJ.

29th Jun 2001, 01:03

I just read that Virgin may acquire up to 5 Bombardier Global Express airplanes for premium service across the Pond. No idea about the routes or airports used on either end - although I heard that Luton - Newburgh, NY was a consideration - that would work pretty well...

Yeah, flying a Global Express wouldn't be so bad - nice flight deck... It could probably fit 20-30 first-class seats and fly 6000 miles or so.

Branson would set the bar AGAIN! Not surprising...

29th Jun 2001, 05:48
Enter after the Virgin

The GV does not have to be set up as 'open cabin'. Have you ever seen what can be done with the cabins of corporate jets these days? So far removed from "claustrophobic/confined" that the mind boggles.

Haulin' Trash
29th Jun 2001, 13:37
Anyone worried about our employers taking on pilots to fly these bizjets on separate, low paid contacts. I'd be interested to hear how Virgin propose to do it.

Boss Raptor
29th Jun 2001, 21:12
Virgin had grand plans for a similar 'complimentary' operation with Citation 2's back in early 90's - had an office in Radius Park LHR but not certain it ever happened!?

northern boy
29th Jun 2001, 23:28
If it does happen I hope it dosen't end up like the soon to disappear Virgin Sun.Three years down the road, everyone content then flogged off with attendant disruption to all involved.Otherwise, great idea, hope it comes off.Maybe it will forestall the whingeing about us horrid Sun drivers comming back with quote, "no loss of seniority.".Sorry guys, but we never went away.

30th Jun 2001, 00:06
This is how UAL plans to structure their flight crews:

Got this from AirlineRumor.com (http://www.airlinerumor.com)

Who will Fly Them?

The issue of who will fly for the new fractional program was carefully considered, said Oran, who served as corporate counsel in the area of pilot negotiations for United from 1987 to 1994. A letter sent by the UAL master executive council (MEC) on May 8 to its 10,000 pilot union members described UAL’s plans in some detail. The fractional-ownership division would be the core component of the business jet enterprise. The division–separate from United Airlines–would provide total operational support, “including pilots and maintenance, as well as incidental requirements.”

In the early planning stages, UAL was careful to solicit the support of its pilot union MEC. The 29 voting members of the MEC were far from unanimous in their approval, some expressing the belief that UAL should concentrate on its core airline business. On the other hand, most felt it was “an opportunity to make a positive financial impact on the company without negatively affecting United’s pilots.”

Of further interest to pilots, part of the business plan includes provisions for a possible corporate shuttle division for “certain large corporate customers,” using Airbus Corporate Jetliners and/or Boeing Business Jets. The airplanes would be owned by the corporate customer but managed, maintained and operated by United Airlines. Most significant from the pilots’ perspective, Oran said they would be flown by mainline United pilots on the United pilot seniority list at mainline wages. Oran said, “United currently operates about 100 Airbus A319s,” indicating that the European airframer may have an edge, should the corporate shuttle program go forward.

Pilots for the smaller aircraft would come from outside the United ranks. In a policy that may have been included to tempt pilots from other fractional operators, Oran said the new division would “provide interviews with the mainline airline for fractional pilots.”

Sure sounds like some pretty interesting flying but at the same time is UAL venturing off the end of the plank with this one?

[This message has been edited by JR/FO (edited 29 June 2001).]

30th Jun 2001, 08:24
UAL-MEC was certainly far from unanimous - in fact it was passed by a single vote. Hardly a ringing endorsement.

Some UAL retirees will fly them if they can.

Ignition Override
30th Jun 2001, 10:28
Maybe it is not yet a reason for true paranoia at United etc , but for the most junior pilots and any future new-hires, watch the contract language very carefully.

Can't business jets often be stretched? The CRJ is, in general, a stretched Canadair corporate jet, is it not?

Warpspeed: hast Du schon eine *-**** von "Starbase-E" bekommen?

Max Sectors
30th Jun 2001, 11:54
Who cares who flies them and on what contract? as long as its not foreign labour.

Would you rather build your union empire and stop this happenning altogether?