Aussie Businessmen set to sue Etihad

[Fox3snapshot]

From today's Sydney Morning Herald...

'The case of three Australians charged with drunken, lewd behavior aboard a first class flight to the Middle East is set to move to a Sydney courtroom.

While businessmen Jeremy Snaith and David Evans were due to be flown to Bangkok early this morning after being convicted in an Abu Dhabi court of offensive behaviour and given suspended prison sentences, their lawyer, Ross Hill, is preparing to sue the airline, Etihad, for malicious prosecution and unlawful detention.

Mr Hill says his clients are not only innocent of the charges, which included being drunk, lewd and even naked in the first-class cabin, but have spent a month in a desert prison eating camel, at least in Snaith's case, and have suffered business losses.

But like everything else in this case the details are unclear. Media reports from the United Arab Emirates yesterday claimed Snaith returned a positive drug sample with traces of cocaine and hashish. Mr Hill rejects this and insists the samples were switched and came back from the laboratory with a different exhibit number. Instead he says Snaith was convicted by three judges of using offensive language, for which he received a six month suspended sentence, and fined $330 for being a non-Muslim drinking without a permit. "No-one is denying he had a drink but it was warm champagne served by the airline," Mr Hill said.

Evans was convicted of using offensive language and touching a cabin crew member on the arm for which he received a 12-month suspended sentence. His alcohol and drug tests, taken when he got off the flight, returned negative.

The third man, William Sergent, was cleared and has flown on to Edinburgh, where he was originally headed on April 27 when he was arrested and thrown into a desert prison for testing positive to the prescription drug he takes to help him sleep.

Mr Hill said he argued the court did not have the jurisdiction to hear the drug charges against Snaith. "These Arabic newspapers are getting their information from the police officers who laid the charges and would be rather embarrassed by the way it turned out," he said.

"It was clear on the prosecutor's own brief that there was a problem with the test results. It was someone else's specimen which came back from the lab. It had a different exhibit number."

Mr Hill said the men would prefer to appeal against the convictions but that would mean staying in prison for another month. "It's a hard balance for them - stay another month in prison or cop it on the chin and get out of there."

He insisted all the alcohol tests came back negative, which contradicts the airline's version that the men were drinking heavily from their duty free purchases.

"We don't blame the authorities. They were doing their job. We blame Etihad."

[Flying Spag Monster]

This is going to be fun. I would think if you are going to get arrested for taking Temazapam and the like, perhaps the airlines should provide you with a long list of substances you do not want in your system if you get checked in the UAE. Substances that you can freely avail legally from your point of departure. Makes them look silly really.....

[Mustapha Rex]

Good morning Sheikh Ahmed!
Can I have champagne please? And make it chilled...OK?
Time has come to pay for the airline running your philandering ring!
We told you but you did not want to listen, I would be interested to know the nationalities of the crew involved, I bet they were Morrocan!

[Fox3snapshot]

Not taking sides as we will never know all of the facts, but regardless, from a PR point of view for Etihad who is just trying to establish their Australian niche...this is gonna hurt! :ouch:

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

Moderator, this case is extremely pertinent to many people living in the Middle East and maybe even more so to those travelling on a Middle Eastern Carrier through the region. The question is can a person drink on these flights without a liquor permit, or do they run the risk of getting arrested.


Secondly are passengers allowed to take drugs containing codeine and the like before boarding a Middle Eastern airline transiting through the region when these drugs are legal drugs in their home country or will they be locked up as criminals for doing this. Additionally do passengers have to be warned that they may be drug tested when transitting through the UAE. Is it any of the UAE's business that you may have taken an illicit drug in a different country before passing through the UAE as a transit passenger?


Putting aside the issue of who they touched and how they acted, which differs depending on who's story you hear the above two points are the ones that would worry most people.

[Mustapha Rex]

It is called sodomy without vaseline!:E

To tell you the truth, I do not see the reason why the previous post was closed, albeit for the sensitve ears of the man with the sick liver et all... little wussies who are pretending that EY is this wonderful middle east airline with a unique service offering.

The truth of the matter is that, as this particular case shows, Etihad has brought upon itself, Emirates, the UAE and to a larger extent other Middle east airlines, unecessary attention because of the way it is mismanaged.

Whatever was done and whoever did it, this passenger handling incident is the Pandora's box opening to show what is really inside Etihad.

The ability these young ladies have to run rings around their incompetent crew management and the local authorities, when they actually are the biggest puttanas the Gulf has known goes a long way to show the lack of maturity that this airline requires to make itself a niche with the big boys, and it will remain in the eyes of all the little boy's airline.

So Mr. Aqeel's investment is finally showing as low value, and befitting of his little mind, and oversized ego, not to mention pimping. Special adviser to the Sheikh....My @rse!

If Ey is to save its face, it needs to act fast and now, and rid itself of the legacy from its northern competitor.

[Togalk]

These guys were drunken fools. They deserved what they got. If they hadn't acted like idiots none of this would have happened. The only difference is they could afford high priced lawyers. Thousands of people a day travel to and from the UAE with no problem. So, no this is not a thread about the risks of drinking on a flight to the UAE, it is about acting like a fu@#$ng idiot.

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

So Togalk, please enlighten me as to how this is not about being arrested for drinking without a license and taking illicit drugs (that were legal in the country they were taken and legal in the rest of the world for that matter) when that is exactly what they were charged and in some cases found guilty of.
In this case they may or may not have acted like idiots. My point is, do other passengers have to worry about flying through the UAE due to this case. You should know that their will be people specifically booking Qantas or Cathay right now specifically to fly to Europe without landing in a Muslim country due to this case.
My worry is that someone pisses off the wrong person on an Etihad flight, and they are dragged off to prison for drinking alcohol that was given to them by the airline, due to not having a license.

Also my understanding of the UAE laws were that a person serving alcohol to a person without a permit was open to prosecution, so does that mean that any cabin crew that served the warm champagne to the men involved should also be charged?

[Sinbad1]

AirNoServicesAustralia,:rolleyes:

In these cases the best way to obtain legal advice is to contact your own foreign office for travel advice rather than the moderator, at least that way you get legal protection if you do get arrested for taken a drink during a trip via the GULF region, or codeine for that matter. This way the passengers or travellers will save themseves eating camel meat and experience the Beni Yass jail hospitalty. :cool:

Just a thought, I wonder if the flight crew filed an ASR following the incident on board the flight? It might be a good idea to invite either the flight crew and/or the cabin crew to put their version forward.

For those flying from Australia you can get info on what not to take from the following website:
http://www.dfat.gov.au/:ok:

Safe and happy flying to all

[Mustapha Rex]

Therefore the next logical question is:

Does Etihad have a booze lisence to serve alcohol then?

[Sinbad1]

:D
"The ability these young ladies have to run rings around their incompetent crew management and the local authorities, when they actually are the biggest puttanas the Gulf has known goes a long way to show the lack of maturity that this airline requires to make itself a niche with the big boys, and it will remain in the eyes of all the little boy's airline".

"So Mr. Aqeel's investment is finally showing as low value, and befitting of his little mind, and oversized ego, not to mention pimping. Special adviser to the Sheikh....My @rse!"

Well said Mustapha Rex :ok::ok::D:D:D:D

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

Sinbad I am a resident of the UAE and also in my profession I have to watch what I take drug wise, and I have a liquor license. I think this thread is of more benefit to people looking to travel through the Gulf, and what needs to be discussed here is not what happened or did not happen on the flight behaviour wise, as if they behaved badly then charge them with that but why cloud that with arresting Australian citizens for drinking alcohol provided by the airline over international waters.

Also it seems some have an axe to grind against Etihad, eg. talking about Moroccans etc. That isn't the issue here, and just makes it more likely that this thread, which I think is relevant, could be binned by the moderator like last time.

People will get drunk on flights or before flights. Now loutish, dangerous drunken behaviour will of course not be tolerated, but will being quietly intoxicated without causing anyone else trouble get you arrested on arrival into Abu Dhabi, even when you are just transitting through to Europe? If so passengers need to be specifically warned of the fact when booking a ticket with Etihad, along with what drugs they must not take "X" number of days before flying. Maybe they should put a breathaliser on the drinks trolley and when you blow over the limit they will have to give you a warm glass of milk instead.:E

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

Again just my unqualified understanding of UAE law, but doesn't it say that as a tourist you may drink at the hotel at which you are staying without a liquor license, which makes me think that if you are travelling with Etihad, wouldn't they by proxy be your "hotel" and as such you can drink at their establishment, ie the drink trolley parked at seat 3B.

[Fox3snapshot]

Might sound like a far fetched concept, but I wouldn't be surprised if after the fallout from this it forms part of the ticketing process, perhaps Etihad or the respective airline will have to pay the UAE authorities a fee which may or may not be passed on to the passenger that purchases non-Muslim passengers a liquor license. :hmm:

Goodness me, does this sound like another money making exercise by the local authorities to rip expats of even more....well yes, maybe I shouldn't have suggested it! :{

[Fox3snapshot]

Non-muslims can apply for a licence to purchase and consume liquor.



Legal permit to buy spirits
Staff Report



The UAE, as a Muslim country, implements Sharia law which prohibits the purchase and consumption of alcohol.

However, the UAE authorities are aware that drinking alcohol is popular among non-Muslims, so for that reason the UAE sets rules for purchasing and drinking alcohol.

In hotels in all emirates except Sharjah - where the sale, consumption or possession of alcohol is prohibited - alcohol is offered to customers. Some embassies also offer alcohol for sale to their nationals.

Similarly, in all emirates except Sharjah, alcohol can be purchased from licensed retailers by non-Muslims who obtain a "liquor permit" from the emirate that issued the residence visa.

Liquor permits are issued by the police departments in all emirates to non-Muslims ages 21 and over who fulfil the minimum salary requirements.

The permit or licence, valid for a year, allows the holder to buy a certain amount of alcohol per month. Purchases from retailers that do not have official approval are illegal.

Only the husband in a married couple can apply for a licence, but his wife can use the licence if her details are included in the application form.

In Dubai, licences can be applied for at police headquarters or any branch of retailers MMI or A&E, which sell alcohol.

Bring along the completed application form - forms can be obtained from MMI or A&E branches - along with the Dh150 fee and the documents indicated in the table.

If a husband wants his wife to be able to use the licence, a passport-size photograph of her must also be included.

After about 10 days, subject to approval, the licence will be issued. The amount of alcohol it permits the holder to buy will be determined by Dubai Police according to factors such as salary level, age and family size.

If the residence visa expires before the licence does, the licence must be renewed by submitting it along with another completed application form and a photocopy of the new residence visa.

At most alcohol retailers in Dubai, a [/B]municipality tax[/B] is levied on each sale. {Fox3's footnote...on top of the cost of the permit and the other associated taxes!}


Requirements
Individuals, free zone employees, semi-government employees, self employed individuals, Green Book holders and Smart Card holders will need:

Passport copy
Residence visa copy
Tenancy contract copy (or NOC letter from leaseholder)
Labour contract copy (only required from Smart Card holders who have changed sponsorship)
Trade licence copy
One recent passport size photograph
Free zone authority stamp on application form
Salary Certificate

Key points to keep in mind

Punishments
Non-Muslims who possess a valid liquor permit can transport alcohol from one emirate to another emirate but the quantity should be for personal use only.

If caught transporting a large quantity, the alcohol and vehicle will be seized and the person or persons will face punishment as per law.

Consuming alcohol is not allowed in unlicensed public places. Drunkenness in public is also an offence.

Those caught drunk or drinking in public may be punished as per Sharia law which implements lashes, but the judge can replace lashing with other punishments such as a jail term, fine or deportation.

There is a zero tolerance policy towards drinking and driving.

Muslims
A strict regulation to remember is that Muslims are not allowed to buy or consume alcohol in the UAE, and people are banned from offering or selling alcohol to Muslims.


That means that all the rules that describe the processes allowing people to purchase and consume alcohol apply only to non-Muslims.

It is important that non-Muslims are considerate and ensure that their decision to buy or consume alcohol legally does not cause offence to Muslims.

[StandAlone]

Unruled Passenger, is all it is about!!!
AirNoServicesAustralia, I doubt that the behave of this guys were civilized, so if you act like this, you could face the authorities and the law the in any place you are arriving, even if you are in transit. If you are discussing the law in UAE is a different subject, but as an unrulled passenger you can face charges in many countries all around the world. Get drunk onboard is not like get drunk in your preferred pub. And now they are blaming the Airline... what they want is money now!!!
BTW how camel taste???:}

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

Then Standalone charge them for their 'unruly' (I think that is the word you are looking for) behaviour, and don't cloud the issue and create a huge amount of bad publicity by charging them with drinking alcohol without a permit, or charging them with illicit drug taking. The rest of the world would charge you just as the UAE have done for the the behavioural issues but certainly not for drinking and taking of a sedative, and that is the issue here, and the worry for other non-muslims contemplating travelling with Etihad to Europe.

[Mustapha Rex]

And by the way all the disfunctional features were clearly communicated to the management prior to finalising the A-340 orders, but of course as one would have it they turned a deaf ear to it all.

Who pays now? The passenger, the crew? It goes to show that management responsibility goes beyond employing people, buying airplanes or paying a salary. But say that to an Arab.....!

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

Drinking or possession of alcohol without a United Arab Emirates Ministry of Interior liquor permit is illegal and could result in arrest and imprisonment. Alcohol is served at bars in most major hotels (although not in the Emirate of Sharjah) but is intended only for guests of the hotel. Travellers who are not guests of the hotel, and who consume alcohol in the restaurants and bars, are required to have their own personal liquor licences.


So as I said as a guest of a hotel, you may drink at that establishment without a liquor license, so again it begs the question weren't these guys guests of Etihad and as such were allowed to drink with them?

[StandAlone]

Rex is a Dog's name isnt it? You don't scarme by barking loud.
And I do my opnion where ever I want.

And Im not looking for any particular world, But did you have any unruled passenger onboard in your flights, that can make you even divert.
I had this experience more than once, and I'll never be simpathic with this kind of people that go fly and think they can do anything up there.

For me this is a pilot of view or go discuss on the AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL forum.

[Sinbad1]

Dear AirNoServicesAustralia,

G' Day, I also used to live in the UAE and believe me I am in total agreement with you. As far as the Moroccan girls goes I like them very much. I have flown with them many times and find them to be very pleasant and polite (Mustafa Rex may have another opinion but that's another matter). Every person is entitled to his own opinion. In fact most of the cabin crew at EY are really nice but unfortunately the lack of training and experience shows. Also with your point about arresting people for drinking alcohol on board a flight over international waters, I was referring to your comment to the moderator asking him for advice. I was merely responding that there is better advice available than from the moderator. However, the point you made is quite correct and I couldn't agree with you more. If an airline serves alcohol then they have no right to then arrest people for drinking it.

As for the law in the UAE with regards to people drinking in the hotels, yes you are absolutely correct. You can drink as much as you like but don't get caught on the road drunk, and this is hypocrisy in the law is what really kills me. Believe me I was earning a substantial amount of money but eventually I came to the decision where money verses life style and then I left the region. By the way, alcohol was not the reason for my leaving the UAE.

A lot of people think this is a tax free haven - think again and look around how much you are paying in various fees, the way they increase rent on a whim, etc. The place is rip off. They also treat many in a very inhumane way.
With regards to the Aussi guys, I think EY shot themselves in the foot. I agree bad behaviour is ugly but I think EY needs to revise its procedure and introduce new training in how to handle such matters. I think the airline has tremendous potential with almost a brand new fleet, very good flight crew and still learning cabin crew but let's not forget they are still a very young airline.
Safe and happy flying to all:ok:

[Mustapha Rex]

Sindbad,
Sorry to hear that you left, we are still suffering the consequences of poor management and no matter what airplanes this airline gets, it is not managed properly it will never make it.
And you are right about the tax free haven, it ain't, and it's more like sticky tapes for flies, once you are here it's plain hard to leave with children in school etc....
Standalone, don't worry I wasn't talking about you.:E

[Funk]

Thread creep
Anyone who knows me would know that I am partial to a drink or 12 but I think the days of booze on jets is long gone. I have flown Royal Brunei Airlines from BNE to DXB and back a couple of times, no shakes no pink elephants and my kids & I had a pleasant flight. :ok:

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

Funky I can see your point but I love a glass of wine with my meal, and maybe a shot of something a little stronger with my movie. I would hope that people would be able to have those things without breaking the law, and leaving themselves open to arrest on arrival in the UAE. Whether the authorities would only arrest you if you have been behaving badly as well is beside the point.
The point is as per the precedent set by this case, if I drink on an Etihad flight without a liquor permit I am breaking the law and could be locked up in prison on arrival in Abu Dhabi. That is enough to scare off most people from the West from flying Etihad again.

Just ignore me literally please!!!

Standalone, your wish is my command, consider yourself ignored.

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

Sorry Sandblasted, just confirm by saying that drinking is tolerated by the police, that what you are really saying is that yes, unless you have a liquor license then you are breaking the law by drinking on an Etihad flight, even if you stop drinking before entering UAE territory. If so this needs to be shouted from the loudest roof top in Oz and every other country in the world where drinking alcohol is a choice every adult can make, not something you have to apply to a government to be allowed to do. People need to be warned that by accepting the in flight hospitality on offer they are leaving themselves open to conviction on arrival in Abu Dhabi.

We have established already over and over again that these guys probably were way out of line and for that should have been charged. The issue here is why were they charged with drinking alcohol and using prescription sleeping pills when they were served the alcohol by the airline and they legally purchased and used the pills as per the laws of the country they were bought in.

And sorry could you confirm that you would be drug tested in the same situation in Singapore and you would be locked up for longer than 6 weeks for a positive trace of a prescription sleeping pill taken legally. I don't think so!

[Sinbad1]

Mustapha Rex,

Thank you but believe me I am not sorry one little bit, I could not stand the place any more. I do feel very sympathetic for those who have family commitments in the UAE and do not have much room to manoeuvre. God Bless and not Dog bless...

Once again you are very correct, the downfall of every company or an Airline is poor management.:ok:

[StandAlone]

Simbad,
I wasn't disagreeing with the discussion, was just given my opinion about some unruled behavior, but some people get annoyed so easily, never mind.

Have safe flights you too

[Mustapha Rex]

The problem here, as rightly pointed on most posts, is the immaturity of the crew, the lack of responsible individuals to act on behalf of EY at every stage of the process.

Whether pilots fill reports or not, whoever is on the receiving end of the R/T requesting for police assistance should inform the corporate authority of such cases and in any respectable airline they decide on behalf of the organisation what action to take.

This incident shows again how poorly managed EY is, by letting abu dhabi only too happy police force take action against these passengers, they have allowed another entity to manage their image and PR, a nono in Marketing.

EY will not be hearing the end of this and might as well close their route to SYD, the flack is coming and it is going to be hard and thick.

[Firbolgs]

Why oh why do you guys have a problem accepting the fact that these guys were drunk and diorderly onboard the aircraft?

The fact that some so called professional pilots can even consider defending these drunken wa@@@rs amazes me!...

Mustapha continues in his usual EY bashing mode....pathetic
:ugh:

[Mustapha Rex]

Firblogs, and I hope that this handle is not referring to your personal hairy undercarriage, you are missing the point.

I am not excusing the behaviour of the passengers, not at all.

What I am trying to address is the lack of maturity of the crew, their poor training and the consequences thereof.

Now if you can't read this, I think you have a problem.

Ciao!

[Yossarian]

If they were unruly, then charge them as such. Why bring the intoxication side into it at all? Serving alcohol on a flight and then charging someone for consuming it smacks of the hypocrisy rife in the region. If you wanna play ball on the international court, you better be trained and ready to deal with a few players who play by international rules. If they break the rules, then get them for their misdemeanours, not for what you served them.

[parabellum]

If you are on prescription drugs and can show the prescription, (usually repeated by the pharmacist on the packet/bottle etc. with the prescribing doctors name and registered number), then you will have no problems in Singapore, only if you are carrying a commercial quantity of prescription drugs without a prescription would you expect trouble.

[Sinbad1]

:cool:
I think we all agree if anybody is going to compete in the Olympics you need to be an Olympic standard, likewise if an airline like EY wants to maintain an international standard with an image of excellence they need to have an international and very good standard of management team. The point of confusion here is the misunderstanding by some towards others when they become critical of the management. The way I read it is this - Nobody defended any wan....:mad:..kers here and I think the majority are in agreement with regards to the alleged misbehaviour and the drunk act which those guys may have displayed in the Diamond cabin. As someone has rightly pointed out, if you see someone had one drink too many then you do not keep providing him or her with more drink, and as someone has also rightly pointed out this shows lack of experience, maturity and poor management and, if I may add, poor training as well.
The discussion was mainly focused not on defending those Aussi guys but around the handling procedures of the incident which arose from no or lack of correct approach/training which springs back to the root cause which is the airline management. Additionally when the pilot had called for the police he may have followed what had been laid down before him by the airline or acted upon advice he may have been given over the R/T.
Finally I think, like some of the guys rightly pointed out, EY needs to revise or introduce a correct procedure of handling such matter with careful consideration to their future reputation not being harmed by involving those Abu dh...abi pol..ice pack of idiots whose education level don't exceed beyond primary school education.
The final word is the discussion on this forum has already moved from those 3 guys to the airline's handling of this incident. It would be nice NOT to view criticism of the management as criticising the whole of the EY staff or as EY bashing.
This alcohol serving business is quite a serious matter. I remember one American guy had a dispute with one of the police at Abu Dhabi airport. The officer smelled alcohol on his breath and as a consequence they locked him up for 2 days. Turning a blind eye to the problem doesn't solve the problem. A lot of westerners in the UAE are actually tourists. Where will it stop? I think EY and the Abu Dhabi government (and EK too for that matter) need to make clear rules and regulations as to exactly what is and is not allowed for muslims and non muslims (ie with regards to both the serving and/or consumption of alcohol on board flights into the UAE). They must also curb their hypocrisy and not serve alcohol in their hotels and then arrest people who have been drinking when they come out.

Safe and happy flying to all:ok:

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

Firbolgs (what sort of name is that by the way??), if you actually read all the posts properly you would see noone has defended these plonkers. Ok they were arrogant, ok they were drunk, ok they acted badly. I think we all agree that the book should be thrown at them for those crimes. BUT!!!! How can an airline serve alcohol and then have the police charge those same people for consuming that alcohol. How can you charge a person with taking a drug that they legally purchased and used at their point of departure.

These are the questions that I have asked, and not once did I defend these guys.

As far as sandblasted goes, other than rumours here and there there has been no official report that these guys had anything other than prescription sedatives in their possession and the same in their system. The whole cocaine and hashish positive tests report was blown out of the water quick smart. And think about it Sandblasted, if they were carrying anything more on them, do you really think they would be out of the country now. No they would be serving 4 years in jail like that poor guy who bought in .0001 grams of Hash amongst his pocket lint he had forgotten about, whilst those Emirati animals who gang raped the hostie get 12 months, and that Egyptian monster who murdered his wife with a rubber pipe gets 18 months. Now that is hypocricy guys!

Off for a licensed beer!:ok:

[Mustapha Rex]

Just make sure you take your (liquor) license with you.:E

[Oblaaspop]

I never thought I'd agree with him, but ANUS Australia's LAST post was right!
For those that missed it, my post on the other thread that was closed (for no GOOD reason 4 HP!) stated the FACTS as given to me by a crew member on the said flight.
I agree that trying to prosecute these guys for drinking without a liquor permit was sheer stupidity, and they should have been done for the multitude of other offences comitted (no least waving ones knob in an FA's face - sorry to be crude!).
But I'll tell you what p1sses me off more than anything about this case, is the fact that these w*****s know full well what they did was bang out of order and that they are currently the luckiest gits on the planet (basically because likely a little 'Jingley' cocked up the urine samples and the hot shot lawyers got them out on a technicality), yet still they are allowing their low life scum of a lawyer to spout and spin this story to the Aussie gutter press and now they have the audacity to try and sue the airline.....
Lay low you bunch of thicko's, shut your traps and thank your lucky stars!
If you can't do that, I urge you, in fact I'll pay for it myself for you guys to go and fly on American carrier and behave the same way in US airspace....I promise you you'll not see the light of day for years!
As an aside, Mr Australia (as you keep going on about it), don't you think its strange how EK alone transports around 20 million people a year through the UAE, the vast majority of which would have had a drink on board (only 18% of EK's pax are Arab), yet this is the first time this subject has raised its ugly head?
Basically, don't worry yourself about the liquor permit issue. If you behave, don't swear at, threaten or wave your wedding tackle at the crew, then you have absolutely nothing to worry about and neither does anyone else.
Remember, its illegal to be drunk in an aircraft under international law, regardless of country and origin of the carrier, and you can be arrested and prosecuted as such!

[saddlebrooks]

Who charged them with consuming alcohol without a license? The police or EY?

Disurptive passengers are issued warnings with the final warning being met at the aircraft by the police and then handled by the police.

Once it is in the hands of the police we all can see to what extreme it can go to.

EY has as much control over the AUH police as BA has over the UK police.

[Hazrail]

Just speaks of the quality management this company has, all focused on being the best without allocating the ressources to meet their objectives.

I was at the airport when this happened, it was appalling and a poor reflection on Etihad, regardless of what the passengers did.

When you have unqualified people who are placed there on the basis of their wasta, you will get nothing more than this abysmal service.

Etihad needs to think forward, the influx of new crew from GF is going to solve the numbers issue but not the quality of the service which on the contrary will suffer.

As long as crew are managed by operations this problem will remain and unlike EK or QR, EY will never be able to dominate the business in any shape or form until it understands this principle clearly.

Hail to Mr. Clark!

[gccpro]

Oblaspop agreed all the way, must add though that if your name has any Arab cognitive syllables you probably run the risk of paying a prolonged visit to Guantanamo in the carribean under the hospices of the patriot act.
However EY needs to review the maturity of its service approach, this is the element that differentiates EY from EK, and although EK carry as many passengers, crew are trained to proactively avoid such situations and not allow them to forment.
My experience is that some of the crew have an ambivalent position in regards to alcohol service on board and this can generate quite a stir in premium cabins. (Is this a GF heritage)

This is reflected in the warm champagne served to these passengers and this is wholly unacceptable as a standard.

[Flying Spag Monster]

Oblaaspop, farely true statements but you don't have to flash the tackle to get the attention of the police on arrival. Lets say you have a few beers, get to imigration and get hassled about your visa, you are tired and get a bit theatrical.."is that alcohol I smell sir? come with me..." Or you collect your bags and your "Fragile" package is crushed and the other bags missing,you start complaining and off you go for an alcohol test, two days in the slammer. It doesn't take much, residents here know that, I don't drink and drive, it is to easy to be sitting at the lights and have some idiot hit you from behind. What will the police do when they smell the one beer on your breath.... in the slammer. We know this and adjust accordingly, its a fact of desert life, but the ice cream licking public arriving on vacation don't.

It is hypocricy as ANUS OZ says, but I guess I would rather live with hypocricy and be able to have a beer here than not at all. Unfortunately it is the punters that will get in a jam. Perhaps some industries and cultures will never make a perfect match.

[Mustapha Rex]

I am sure that these girls on board have seen more than their fare share of tackle, yet pretend they are virgins from Mecca.

Facts of life and unfortunate as it maybe another tick in the box as far as these guys go, my view is that it will not end here.

To be continued....

[ironbutt57]

Regardless of the "virtuous" lifestyle of the crew or not, the fact is these passengers allegedly refused safety instructions from the crew, exposed themselves to the crew and others etc etc...so why are we diverting attention away from the alleged facts of the case and making disparaging remarks about the crew, and the country in general.....

[Sinbad1]

saddlebrooks :confused:

"EY has as much control over the AUH police as BA has over the UK police".

With all due respect, you are either new to the region (not virgin from Mecca) or you are not aware of the culture in AUH. Just like AirNoServicesAustralia said EY owners own the police as well, it is true. Find out who Dr Sheikh Ahmad is???

As for the question Who charged them with consuming alcohol without a license? The police or EY? the question should be why are they charged with drinking alcohol with out a licence instead of threatening and endangering the safety of the aircraft????
I hope for your sake you do not have an accident where you are sitting at the traffic light minding your own business waiting for the traffic light to change and someone bangs into you. He gets hospitilised out of his own stupidity. Why? Because for as long as he is in hospital you are in jail and that is no joke I guarantee you (this is the law in the UAE), and I am speaking from experience. And if you do not have WASTA well you are in the Slammer until he comes out. Oh, did I mention that your family or wife will have no clue as to your whereabouts until only few days later??
I really do not want to bore you with all this human rights issues that we take for granted in the civilised world.:ok:

Happy and safe flying to all

[gccpro]

Ironbutt, you never cease to amaze me with your ability to state the obvious and keep repeating adnauseum.

While safety is paramount it is not the tool to justify the authority of the crew over passengers, if it is then welcome to Syrian airlines or Iraqi airways, I doubt this is the image EY wants to project.

The manner in which crew brief passengers is of utmost importance and will in fact determine how passengers will interact with the crew, it is not because the crew lost their credibility with the passengers that they suddenly remember that they can nail them now using safety because it seems practical.

Throwing the book wont get you in their better books!

And remember it's a people's business! Not a police state.

[Smoozesailing]

Those Aussies are f@#$wits!!! And they have a f&^%wit lawyer too!!!

Lawyer: "Your Honor, my client wants to sue the airline. They maliciously prosecuted my clients!"

Judge: "The airline brought criminal charges against your clients?"

Lawyer: "Yes Your Honor. They also put them in a jail for a month and only gave them camels to eat!"

Judge: "The airline put them in jail?"

Lawyer: "Yes Your Honor. And the biggest crime was that my client were served warm champagne!"

Judge: "Yes, you have a case. We need to show those "less fortunate" people that they shouldn't mess with us. In fact, you win!"

Get over it guys. Governments deal with criminals in any way they see fit. Not all governments are angels but the Aussies are going to have a hard time convincing the courts that the airline had such overwhelming control over the government that the government was obliged to listen to them.

If the government could "assist" Etihad in this manner, what would stop them from "assisting" any other airline that was facing the same predicament? Being thrown in jail awaiting trail is nothing new, too bad for the guys it was summer.

[Flying Spag Monster]

Perhaps the rocket scientists among us who know UAE aviation law can answer this. Is it actually against the UAE law to threaten the safety of an aircraft? Sounds obvious but I know the law against smoking on an a/c has been sitting in some in-tray for years now. This might explain the charges that were made against the trio.

Smooze sailor, the legal action against EY would have more to do with damage control by the three than getting "justice". If they went back to Oz and did nothing they would look very guilty. I would think there will be a lot of noise but in the end nothing will come of it...except unwanted PR.

[Mustapha Rex]

And that is exactly the point I was trying to make!

Well said!FSM

[bluesfan]

Hello Everyone:

I’ve been following the discussion on this thread and while I don’t want to comment on the actual incident that is being discussed, I did want to sound off on something I noticed in some of the posts and that is, a rather disturbing tendency to label people based on their nationality. Stereotypes, you see, are just never fair at all no matter how much “truth” they may be rooted-in, and no matter how prevalent they may be, because there will always be a diversity in attitudes, thoughts, etc. within people who are otherwise united by certain nationality. Therefore, a stereotype would never do justice to the minority (or majority) who may not fit in it. No matter how tempting it might be to think otherwise, a person’s nationality or status should never be a factor by which this person’s attitudes or mentalities are measured. You can get all kinds of mentalities or attitudes within any given nationality, it something strictly individual.

Of course, in the end of the day I believe in people’s freedom to have their own opinions, but I have always enjoyed Pprune as a forum for those of us in the industry to share thoughts and knowledge in an environment of openness, empathy and professionalism, and I hate to see such a beautiful thing be tainted by what may be unfair or biased rhetoric. After all Pprune is what we as users make it.

Just my 2 cents…

[ennui]

Guys,

First I knew of the whole thing came from watching Ozzie news while recovering from an overnight from s/e asia.

From my perspective the point of the whole thing, totally disregarding who did what to whom, who said what to which and what was ingested/digested or regurgitated, is what the consequences will be for EY.

As impartial as I can be to the situation, I can say with authority after spending the last couple of days here in godzone, watching the entire HUGE media blowup, talking to friends etc: that EY has done themselves and the UAE a lot of damage with the Australian people!

Spin doctors in please! And not just from EY. This may impact all the regions carriers.

[saddlebrooks]

As for the question Who charged them with consuming alcohol without a license? The police or EY? the question should be why are they charged with drinking alcohol with out a licence instead of threatening and endangering the safety of the aircraft????


Because EY never pressed any charges against the 3 I would imagine.

You are all talking about how much the UAE lives in hypocrisy and then you imply the chairman could have put his foot down to stop it :ugh: and/or he controls the police.

Yes I am sure he ordered the police to charge these 3 with drinking without a license.

[Mustapha Rex]

...and desecrating one of his girlfriends' reputation or the lack thereof...:E

[Sinbad1]

:confused:
saddlebrooks, "Because EY never pressed any charges against the 3 I would imagine".

Iam sorry but Im just a little confused, How did these three men end up in police custody if nobody from EY complained to the police about them?? also somebody from EY would have been present in court to backup these charges I would imagine.otherwise how would the police know what to charge them with or what they did??

Happy and safe flying to all :ok:

[saddlebrooks]

Police and/or security attend to nearly half of disruptive passenger incidents, often the crew and/or airline is not notified if further action is taken by the authorities.

When a Capt. requests police/security assistance upon landing he is not placing charges against the accused of anything, the Capt. is only requesting assistance with a disruptive passenger.

This practice is not exclusive to the UAE it is in reality fairly standard worldwide.

[Dave The Snail]

At the end of the day I think this incident will serve as a message to most westerners to think long and hard about the way they act in and around the Middle East.

I have been travelling from Oz to the UAE for several years now and have watched the progressive decline in respect for the local culture and law - it was only a matter of time before something like this went over the top.

As far as the liquor laws go - they are unfortunately 'fluid'. The law might say you cannot drink at a hotel unless you are a guest but we all know that is garbage. Indeed, at the Airport Expo in DXB last week there was more beer and champagne flowing than at the Melbourne Cup, without any bother.

The UAE is now becoming the 'flavour of the month' for westerners as it is now seen as accessible and the 'cool' place to visit. Unfortunately, many westerners are more interested in whether it's a 'safe' place or not. Once they know it is, they just barge n in without any due diligence. On my visit last week, I took it upon myself to caution a lovely young Aussie girl that her shorts were, well, SHORT and she would be well advised to put something on before venturing out into the streets unless she wanted to get abused or spat at (it still happens).

The message is simple - Be careful, know and respect the law, and show respect for the locals and their culture. I always do and it's never got me into any trouble.

[Fox3snapshot]

On the same note, the investment and marketing product this region is trying to push is aimed directly at overseas cultures. The fact is, a place like Dubai has realized early that 6-10% of its GDP in oil production will not sustain its future, so they must diversify...and it is being done!

Based on this, they have to play our game...sorry simple as that. Take the good with the bad, that is business.

No more Mr. Nice Guy....this is all part of the global economics. Why do you think the IMF and the WTO are having so much grief here, the locals are trying to enjoy the best of both worlds. It simply won't work...this is 2007. :cool:

[Dave The Snail]

Stu, I accept and respect your point of view but these guys don't have to and shouldn't have to accept anything that disrespects anyone's fundamental beliefs - even in the name of business.

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

But Dave as Fox said (this is PPRUNE so I don't know who this Stu is :=) if you want the fire you will have to put up with the smoke. If you want the tourists as Abu Dhabi and especially Dubai want, then you need to provide them access to alcohol. If you provide them access to alcohol don't be surprised if some over indulge. I will say again to those that obviously can't read that I don't condone for a moment the way these guys acted. I just worry about the precedent set by charging these guys with drinking without a license when they are not residents and so could never possess a license.

Dave I do agree with the lack of respect for local values here, as evidenced by the abundance of mini skirts and cleavage every time I visit the malls in Dubai. It's so disgusting I have to revisit at least weekly to confirm for myself this disgusting practice is continuing :E But seriously it is a problem when you even see a local girl with the face fully covered but the Abaya open down the front revealing a spectacular lacy black bra number and some pretty impressive cleavage, at the local Starbucks :eek:

I think the UAE is confused itself on who it wants to be. It ideally wants to stay traditional in its culture and behaviour, but needs the foreign investment to help it diversify away from reliance on oil income, and with the foreign investment comes some of the problems from the West, ie. Drunkeness, crime etc. They either choose to shut the place off and become another Saudi Arabia or Kuwait, or take the bad with the good and try and make the best of it. If they do the latter then they need to at least get some consistency in their laws and realise that if you allow drinking you allow what comes from that drinking (to a reasonable degree, as has been pointed out absolute drunkeness is a crime everywhere not just here). The days of letting a man drink and then arresting him for having booze on his breath are gone. The days of defining drink driving as having any alcohol in someones system is gone, bring in .05.

[Dave The Snail]

I was just going to say 'Agreed' but apparently a comment of less than 10 characters is not allowed.

[GMDS]

bluesfan
Your contributions, on this and on other threads, are very welcome. If only more locals would share your views, such incidents would hardly happen no more.
Biased views are omnipresent, but they get consolidated when enduring biased treatment or blatantly transparent double standards. The sad truth in this region is, that the local population seems to uphold this and find it absolutely justified. Although the same people when traveling or doing business abroad cry very distinctly for equal treatment. If the shameful actors had been locals, do you think they would have spent only one moment in jail? As a player on the international scene, you have to adopt international values. I acknowledge this might be a rubber standard, but most of the civilized world works just fine with that. In the USA they established biased rules to enhance national security. Such discrimination gets bashed all around the world, and rightfully so. Now another region gets bashed for some other biased treatment, rightfully again. Slowly established “soft rules” around the world do not accept unruly behavior on board of airlines. They however accept drinking alcohol. If this is not to be tolerated in some parts of the world, so be it, but then accept that they do not deserve to be considered part of the civilized international community and that the media will pick this up just as they pick up the dismal US immigration attitude.
If you want to eliminate prejudice and stigmatisms, the easiest way is to treat everybody the same, apply the same rules, standards and contracts to everyone.
Not only for passengers, but for employees as well.

[L1011]

ANSA - well put, have to agree with you.
This sort of realization - that the world will not play by your rules, but that you have to play by their rules, is what is known as 'growing up'.
Unfortunately, if my kids were anything to judge it by, adolescence is a messy, tantrum filled, stressful business.
If you choose to live in a country governed by angst-ridden adolescents, then you better learn patience.:cool:

[gccpro]

Must agree with the majority of your posts and add that the problems with the local culture are manifold.

Firstly, thier children are segregated from the Intenational culture on day1, they are taught that Sheikh Zayed was the best leader the world has had, Sheikh Mohammed is a sun of a gun of a leader and a poet, before that there was nothing, later you could be something, but this is what you need to do: Follow the leader and not the foreigner.

Second: According to Mr. AL Tayer, minister of labour and such, Locals do not need training in administration because they are meant to take up management positions.....According to him, they do not need to work shift times either. We should really contact Harvard business school, Yale, Duke and all, and tell them that their curriculum is no longer required because Mr. Al Tayer has just found the solution to the world's administrative problems.

Third: If you want me to respect your daughter/wife/sister, then respect mine, and don't tailgate them; because if if I did that, you would have me sent to jail without going through go and giving you or your sister for that matter my 2pence worth.

Fourth: If you want tourism in order to diversify your market economy, then comply with what that market requires, you cannot expect someone to come and buy property here when you promise them they can get everything they need in terms of modern lifestyle and then impose on them Sharia law. Tourism is the biggest plague the world has known, it has transformed countries into hell holes so don't expect to come out of your tourism experience as if nothing had changed. From the paragliding to the Cyclone and york hotel (That funnily belong to local sheikhs) everything will change, including your daughter one day going out with a foreigner who happens to be better educated and treats her better than her cousin, who thinks his wasta can get him shisha for free.

And you won't have to worry about inbreading.......

[SIUYA]

Dave the Snail................

At the end of the day I think this incident will serve as a message to most westerners to think long and hard about the way they act in and around the Middle East.

Sorry, but the 'problem' isn't confined to the Middle East I'm afraid.

See some PPRuNe posts on the air rage 'phenomenon' that were posted in 2001 at:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1904

The classic outcome (result?) of the problem has to be infamous case of Gerald Finneran who took a crap on the drink cart in first class, then proceeded to clean himself-up (literally) with serviettes in front of the amazed onlookers. Finneran got 'rewarded' for his rather bizarre behaviour with a US$30K fine for his little 'indiscretion' by the way.

Fine, first class with all its supposed trimmings are probably an absolute nightmare for FAs who have to work in that environment with people who think it's their right to behave exactly as they want, when they want, and how they want (but wouldn't ever dream of acting so in their own homes in front of their families), but the simple answer really is to limit the amount of booze that these clowns seem to think they need during the flight.........and if they don't like the conditions applied by any airline in this respect, then stiff sh1t.............let 'em vote with their feet and choose another that's silly enought to let it happen! :ugh:

[Mustapha Rex]

Might as well close up the Marketing department and stop developping products, and while we are at it, hire policemen to man the cabin...

Sorry mate Stiff **** or not that is not solving the problem.

Cheers

[TARCS]

As impartial as I can be to the situation, I can say with authority after spending the last couple of days here in godzone, watching the entire HUGE media blowup, talking to friends etc: that EY has done themselves and the UAE a lot of damage with the Australian people!

I agree with Ennui, the colatteral damage from this, regardless of what is right or wrong, will be a PR nightmare for EY. Act in haste,repent in liesure. The silent majority of Australians talk with their actions, rather than their comments. Is EY paying it's senior management staff enough to circumvent this sort of awkward plublicity?

[ironbutt57]

So let the Aus silent majority do their thing and realize that if you break the law on an airplane, you might not have a happy ending...if they behaved this way on any US carrier the same result would be forthcoming...anybody here on this forum who tries to minimize their behaviour by slagging off local customs, or the nationality of the crew, then I can only hope one of your fellow passengers behaves this way on your flight someday and see how you feel when you and your family are exposed to such misbehaviour...good day and good luck:ok:

[Mustapha Rex]

Ironbutt you are still not getting the point mate, EY should have prosecuted then with evidence which it happens they did not have....


The result is bad publicity and it all stems from not the actions of the passengers that every airline should prepare itself for but EY didn't.

With any other major airline the crew work to prevent these situations from arising in this case I fear they made it worse.

[ironbutt57]

The crew call the police with a disturbance the POLICE sort it out...wasnt aware EY or any other airline had the authority to prosecute... that comes as an unhappy suprise, but in any event there MUST have been some rational reason these pax were reported by the crew..in any event the comments about the crews nationality and possible personal behavioural tendencies have nothing to do with it anyway so those remarks are unwarranted and a bit un called for right??? If the nationalities of the crew and pax in this incident were reversed, I dont think all the criticisms on this thread would be posted do you??? "Nuff said gdday matey:ugh:

[NG_Kaptain]

Actually the flight deck crew was western and the passengers in question were behaving outside of any acceptable norm. They were warned by the captain who they disregarded so the authorities were called to meet the aircraft on arrival. No different to any unrully pax incident into JFK or LHR.

[SIUYA]

Oh dear oh dear oh dear oh dear :ugh:

the simple answer really is to limit the amount of booze that these clowns seem to think they need during the flight.........and if they don't like the conditions applied by any airline in this respect, then stiff sh1t

evokes the response:

Might as well close up the Marketing department and stop developping [sic] products, and while we are at it, hire policemen to man the cabin...

Sorry mate Stiff **** or not that is not solving the problem.


and

The result is bad publicity and it all stems from not the actions of the passengers that every airline should prepare itself for but EY didn't.


ummm.............exactly what part of risk management DON'T you understand Mustapha Rex? Simply, availability of unlimited booze = likelihood of passengers getting pissed (likely) = bad passenger behaviour consequences (moderate). So, using classic risk management logic, you have HIGH RISK of passenger rage.

Thus...............and pardon me if I'm wrong.............isn't that EXACTLY the [likely] 'actions of passengers' that an airline SHOULD prepare itself for??????:eek:

Ironbutt's right.................

I can only hope [when] one of your fellow passengers behaves this way on your flight someday and see how you feel when you and your family are exposed to such misbehaviour

And so the SIMPLE solution for airline marketing departments to solve this potential problem is?????????????

.........limit the amount of booze that these clowns seem to think they need during the flight

[EYGirl]

These paxs were behaving badly (illegally perhaps), think about this poor cabin crew that these guys touched, think she could be your mother, little sister, wife or girlfriend, this can not happen. PERIOD.
Picture yourself travelling as a pax in first with you wife and kids, do you think is correct to tolerate a drunk pax near you walking almost naked in a plane? being drunk?
Cabin crew serve alcohol, which is totally ok. They do not know (sometimes they can realize by smelling or just watching the pax) if this pax is already drunk, tired or under influence of medicals/illegal drugs, sometimes they realize that when is a bit late, but it is always the paxs responsability and NEVER the Airline's one.

The moment this guy touched the cabin crew, this guy got a nonstop ticket to jail (and a kick in his balls)

Protect the poor crew and airline.

F@ck this paxs, keep them in jail for what they did

xxx

EY

[Fox3snapshot]

:rolleyes: Ho Hum...still missing the point, seems we are going around in circles here :hmm:

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

Ironbutt, EY Girly and the rest just can't get their heads around the point of this thread can they.

WE ARE NOT DEFENDING THESE CLOWNS

OUR POINT IS THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN CHARGEDFOR THEIR BEHAVIOUR NOT FOR DRINKING WITHOUT A LICENSE.

:ugh::ugh::ugh:

As much as you guys say don't worry, EY and the Abu Dhabi police will only charge you for drinking without a license if you misbehave, I will worry and all people should worry. My mother or father flying out here on EY may complain to someone about their warm champagne or bad seat, and that person may get upset and vindictive, and decide that since my parents had a drink or two without a license, they can cause them trouble on arrival at Abu Dhabi. The precedent has been set and that is a real worry for anyone contemplating flying through AUH with EY.

AGAIN, THE BEHAVIOUR OF THESE GUYS IS NOT THE POINT, THE POINT IS THE CHARGING OF THEM FOR DRINKING ALCOHOL.

[ferris]

ANSA et al; I think the problem you are having here is cultural. I believe some of the respondents DO NOT understand your point (and I don't know how much more clearly you could state it other than above) because they are from the same culture as the decision making process involved here.
If the flight had've been inbound to Australia when this problem arose, the charges on arrival would've been "conduct endangering an aircraft" or "failure to comply with instruction of the crew" or a similarly purposed law. In the UAE, law-making is a very slow-moving animal. I doubt they would've updated the criminal code {and I stand to be corrected on this} to have such 'modern', particular, crimes. Hence, the police just do what they have been doing for a loooooong time, and slap any old charge on that results in a satisfactory result. They are not used to having such things examined, criticised or publicised. Just as many responding here cannot see the problem- the "just lock them up" mentality.
Some cultures don't question authority. IMHO, that's what this issue is about.

[Quokka]

There would definitely be a cultural aspect to this particular situation. However, the act of charging a person with "what can we get him on" as opposed to selecting the charge appropriate to the behaviour encountered is perhaps a psychological issue more than an ethnographic issue in that it also occurs in Western/European cultures.

A long time ago I observed an Australian soldier charged with being Drunk-on-Duty, Absent-from-Duty and Absent-without-Leave.

What happened to cause this soldier to be charged? The morning after a night of approved and supervised consumption of alcohol within the barracks, said gentleman, in reply to an instruction from a gentleman-who-holds-Her Majesty's Commission, proceeded to express his displeasure at the prospect of complying with such an instruction, accompanied by his personal opinion of said gentleman-who-holds-Her Majesty's Commission. He then walked out of the barracks.

Two gentlemen-who-hold-a-warrant for Her Majesty's Commission (very experienced soldiers of many years service) then proceeded to pull out the law manuals and find the most severe charge that they believed they could get him convicted on.

Five minutes into the trial the charge of being Drunk-on-Duty was thrown out. Why, because he wasn't drunk.

Insubordination... perhaps, but not Drunk-on-Duty. It was the wrong charge.

[EYGirl]

ahhh... the point is drinking without permit is illegal and this guy complained that they were offered drinks by the airline...
Like if you fly with American Airline and they offer you Cocaine and when you land in NY you are arrested for comsumtion?!.

Ooops what a system's failure we have here...!

It must be hard to compatibilise the two systems... (western type of service with middle east laws).

Solution: Do not offer alcoholic drinks inbound to Middle East (better for us)...

insteresting...

[Flying Spag Monster]

Are yes, but what they should have used was "conduct unbecoming of a soldier of the armed forces.. blah blah"

I asked the question before but no answer yet as to the existance in UAE law of penalties for causing a disturbance on a UAE registered flight. It is not against the law to smoke on EK/EY flights...it is against company policy only. Is this the case for disobeying a crew command, threatening safety of crew/pax for which you could use restraints. I previously thought there was a law covering this but recent events have cast a doubt in my mind. Any one know for sure?

EY girl I am pretty sure, but I have been wrong before but I think cocaine is illegal in the US therefor not a good comparison. As I said, I might be wrong, if so sorry....

[Mustapha Rex]

EY Girl

Your reasoning is exactly what EY is up against, prioritising concern on the basis of your inability to act or take action, which why this incident happened in the first place.

Please limit yourself to follow the procedures that you've been given, as small as they are, you will be advised of your next training course on how to handle passengers and make cocktails for them.

In the meantime, do youself and your employer a favour, keep your comments to yourself.

Thank you

MR:ok:

[Sinbad1]

EYGirl,
"Protect the poor crew and airline".
F@ck this paxs, keep them in jail for what they did

"Like if you fly with American Airline and they offer you Cocaine and when you land in NY you are arrested for comsumtion?!."

EY Girl, If you are the true reflection of EY Girls then I rest my case.

Safe and happy flying to all:*

[dxbpilot]

How many people have been stopped in dubai for a random drug test when arriving ? Its not a common occurance.

The laws are there, if your not a drunk asshole, and don't make a scene there is no problem. If you are however they will throw the book at you with everything they've got.

This guy obviously was doing something to get all this attention, except this time he got what he deserved.

[Mustapha Rex]

EY girl take that bubble gum out of your mouth before opening it.

You are exactly the type to be at the source of this problem we are discussing on this forum.

[4HolerPoler]

And I guess you're the solution Mustapha?

I'm letting this thread run - anything goes. Have fun.

4HP

[Mustapha Rex]

If only I could I would.

Or so said Zappa!:p

[Sinbad1]

dxbpilot :=
"How many people have been stopped in dubai for a random drug test when arriving? Its not a common occurance."

I do not know if you could read the local lingo or not, few months ago it was reported in the Itehad newspaper-local news as well as the Gulf News in English that an Asian man was arrested at DXB airport with prescribed drugs from his doctor in his possession and guess what, he - got 5 years in jail despite the letter from his doctor, yet when an American celebrity was caught with hard drugs in his possession he was given 6 months suspended sentence and deportation to avoid bad publicity. This is why I think the UAE has two type of justice, actually three, one for the local, one for the westerners (including the other nationalities that managed to get western nationality) and one for others (non-westerners whose nationalities have no influence with the powers in the UAE). If those 3 guys had been Indian or something like that, they would have been crucified and would never see the daylight for years to come.

On another point, I do resent some of the remarks made towards the Aussies in general, and I do not think it is wise to start Assies versus Pommy bastards bashing or whinging poms.

Since I can't be bothered repeating what we have ALL been saying, I think I will copy and paste from AirNoServicesAustralia who says
WE ARE NOT DEFENDING THESE CLOWNS

OUR POINT IS THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN CHARGEDFOR THEIR BEHAVIOUR NOT FOR DRINKING WITHOUT A LICENSE.

:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Safe and happy flying to all.:ok:

[Mustapha Rex]

Sindbad,


Some of these people simply can't read, don't let them offend you, but if you want to start bashing the poms let me know I am in!:E

[Sinbad1]

Dear Mustapha Rex, Thanks mate, It is nice to know that there is support when you need one (Kevin Bloody wilson song). If it gets heavy I might.:ouch:

Cheers

Safe and happy flying to all.:ok:

[dxbpilot]

All I am saying sinbad is that you have to be making a fuss or somehow drawing attention to yourself for these kinds of things to happen. It is never as simple as the media makes out.

I know plenty of people that have been let off for having alcohol without a licence.

I have no problem with the fact that they charged "THESE CLOWNS" with everything they could, if he was out of order.

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

Nuff said. I don't need to help EY Sheila dig a hole for herself, she's doing a great job on her own. "Chicken or Fish?":ok:

DXBPilot, see that just isn't good enough for a lot of Western travellers. That is, they don't want to rely on the discretion of the authorities as to whether they will lock you up or not for drinking the airline supplied booze. I certainly don't want my freedom decided by some egocentric graduate from Acme University ("Get your degrees by post in 3 weeks, or your money back!!") who has been promoted to his position of power due to who his dad is.

I want the laws to do what they are supposed to do, protect the innocent and prosecute the guilty, and the fact that at a whim the authorities here can prosecute anyone they want for drinking airline supplied alcohol scares me and should scare anyone else flying into the UAE especially Abu Dhabi. Whether they use that power often is largely irrellevant, the point is they have the power to do this.:=

[Sinbad1]

dxbpilot (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=134390) :ok:
"It is never as simple as the media makes out".

I totally agree with you DXB PILOT that the media does take advantage of such situations and tries to sensationalise the news in whatever way they can. However, unfortunately this episode started on board the EY flight and in my opinion it should have been handled in a proper professional manner in accordance with air legislation instead of being blown out of proportion and the passengers being charged only with charges related to alcohol and being imprisoned for a month. Easy Jet and some other airlines have a black list for such misbehaved passengers.

Another point to consider is when air crew are faced with such situations they should keep in mind the effects of the depravation of oxygen at 39000ft along with alcohol consumption (especially warm Champaign) and the effects to the individual passenger, and the behaviour MIGHT be attributed to the combination of alcohol, altitude and medication. Some people cannot handle not even one glass of beer on the ground let alone drinking many glasses of alcohol in the air. The crew should have stopped serving the alcohol to these passengers as soon as they saw their behaviour deteriorating and getting out of hand. They should not have allowed this situation to escalate to the point where the captain had to be notified and intervene. (No I am NOT defending the behaviour of those passengers).

Another point I would like to mention, if I may, in defence of most of the good people on this website is when they appeared to be on the side of the three Aussies is that you have to have a professional and well trained staff to deal with this matter. Believe me my experience with EY cabin crew is that they are very nice and I do not hold their lack of experience against them, but when the Sh...it hits the fan you have to accept the consequences of an untrained crew which brings it back to the competency of the management. This is NOT EY bashing I assure you and I wish them all very well.

A thought for the day; How do you think the Aussi girls and boys on board (TAA or Australian Airlines, Ansett or QANTAS for that matter) handle the footy or the rugby teams on board? I can tell you with great skill. And this what most of us are talking about. Of course no one would like to see other people's family jewels in public. I sincerely hope that EY management should use this incident as template of how to handle such situations for their future training rather than treating it with arrogance "We are Right and you are wrong" or as one of EY idiotic cabin crew puts it F@ck this paxs, keep them in jail for what they did:*

Safe and happy flying to all:ok:

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

Well to be fair I always found the Aussie airlines controlled the football teams by keeping them bone dry sober. You know how?? By sitting in the galley and chatting the whole flight and never offering drinks to anyone.:E But sorry that is another thread.

[Mustapha Rex]

Gentlemen,

The last few posts I think indicate that no one is supportingg the case for the passengers, but rihtly indicate that in EY's inability to manage this incident they have allowed for others to manage it much to their detriment.

Idiotic as it may seem the post above from EY girl is so indicative of the mindset of the EY crew and that this is allowed to dictate their actions on-board is a preview of the quality inflight policy making that prevails.

If and only if I dared to enter this thread with my humble comments it is to bring to light not only the implication that this incident will have on EY, but more important to raise everyone's awareness to a sensitive issue that needs addressing, and for which handling methods need adapting with a non partisan mindset but rather a service oriented approach.

It is clear that on this occasion and this is shown by the warm champagne served, the A/C not working properly on the aircraft (despite having one of the most advanced temp controls systems on the FAP) the crew could not care less, and if I were a passenger paying for this I would be rightly cheesed off and for the lack of respect of my patronage, I would treat the crew with contempt.

Again an inherent trait of GF legacy creeping into EY, that the management here needs to treat and consider carefully.

All and all, the passenger pays, and we provide a service, safe, efficient and in the case of first class personalised, as this incident has shown, we bordered on the first expectation but totally forgot the two others. When all the meddling stops, in how this airline is managed from the top and discipline not favouristism because you happen to be sleeping with Sheikhy baby, then certainly EY will be able to move forward and put this behind it, but until then, one can only hope and wait that such an incident does not repeat itself, and who knows it hasn't with a Pakistani or an Indian or an Arab who could be rotting in Jail as we speak without any recourse for justice...

EY needs to review it's complete "raison d'etre" and think seriously of its future in the aviation scene, for such gross mistakes will only help to discredit other airlines in the region and reflect poorly on the UAE.

Speaking of which, the USA or current european regulations that seem to be taken as adequate by some on this forum in regards to this issue, are in fact totally wrong and do not help to promote the service image of an airline, the same one that passengers look for when choosing their tickets. We need to think in fact on effecive handling methods, and not policing on-board, the first approach is about pleasant flying the second one scalable to the limit a passenger may wish to take the violence level to much to the inability of the crew to control them any further.

Happy flying:ok:

[Sinbad1]

:D
Well said and well put Mustapha. I couldn't agree more. I think a real overhaul of an attitude is required. I remember how some of the EY cabin crew used to quarrel with each other during the flight with regards to their seniority! Also I used to wonder how is it possible that some of these young ladies are able to get promoted to an IFS (In flight supervisor) or CM (cabin crew manager ) position with such a short time in the industry. (I bet I know your answer to that Mustapha!) Some of these young ladies need also a real lesson on manners. I remember the south east Asia sector on EY was always full and I'm not sure if this is still the case. I also remember on some occasions I stood with horror and shock to see the way of some of the EY cabin crew spoke to the pax going to and from the south east Asian sectors. Those poor people are valuable customers, have their dignity and feelings just like the rest of us regardless of there nationality, looks or social status. After all, courtesy and manners cost nothing. I wonder if these girls know that it is those customers that are paying there wages! Some of them are real arrogant Bit...ches and I would love nothing more than to throw them out before the flight. This profession is special and unique and the way some of them act are a disgrace to their profession.

On another point, I find it most astonishing that no one from the EY cabin crew management or the PR department has come forward to defend the cabin crew action or to at least explain as to why EY has taken such action against the three first class pax and to limit the damage caused by this incident. As MR rightly pointed out we are a unique service industry which relies on customers loyalty and good feedback to survive.

Happy and safe flying to all.:ok:

[planecrazi]

I think other charges should have been used, and for the airline to find a good lawyer/legal council when putting the OMA together. (also help with rest periods etc..)

Maybe the charge should have been endangering the safety of the fellow passengers, which is open and enforce more serious penalites.

Let say this flight was out going to LHR, with the same problems/same people. The laws are different in UK and the outcome would be very different. Regardless of the destination, the same penalties should be applied anywhere in the world. Coming up with the lack of an alcohol license sounds most feeble and embarrassing. Lets say the next guys have a license: are they allowed to behave in such a way because they have the little black alcohol license book? Imagine that, passengers telling the Captain to go to hell, "I've got a an alcohol license, so don't try stop me now, bring me another beer". Unfortunately, this is what the result of the court case was. Pay you DHM200, get an alcohol license and make as much indecent trouble onboard and you can't be touched.:ugh:


Land in Singapore I think from now on.:E

[floorlights]

I have heard from a close source that the plane was suffering from serious electrical and mechanical problems and Etihad have convoluted the justified compliants from first class passengers.

Additionally I beleive the airline knew the seats were not working and still booked these passengers into faulty seats.

I cant belive what has happened to these individuals and I know that no exposure or boorish behaviour took place but simply justified complaints against shocking service that the airline was very aware of.

Shame on ETIHAD. They deserve to get everything that will be coming to them.

The hostesses and other staff do not care at all about the passengers probably because the senior ETIHAD management treat them like slaves and pay them a pittance. They also have no experience or training. This was afirst class cabin where people pay for discretion and top class service.

The first (and last) time I flew Etihad the hostesses were poorly dressed, their hair was in a mess, they hardly spoke english and they ignored numerous service requests. I felt like I was on a bus.

NEVER EVER AGAIN

[floorlights]

Etihad charged these men to cover up serious electrical and mechanical problems with the plane.

I bet that plane is now having a full service overhaul. It is so lucky that no-one was hurt due to the planes mechanical problems.

It is a disgrace that Etihad are trying to hide their problems behind complaints from first class passengers

[Mustapha Rex]

That is unfortunately the feeling shared by many, the crew are simply not trained well enouh and the aircraft interiors need a total rethink.

In the case mentionned in this thread, it will be easy to point the fingers and play the blame game, but how long will it be until these problems are solved once and for all.

[floorlights]

Shame on you. Its a plane not a bus, which is probably where you should be working.

[sec 3]

Glad somebody else is noticing that EY cabin crew are treating pax like sh*t. If management knows, they certainly aren't doing anything about it. As mentioned previously, you can get sh*tfaced, and if you don't make an ass of yourself you'll have no problems, just like anywhere else in the world. Throw the book at those bums:}

[ironbutt57]

Sounds like growing pains....many of our crew heading there have more experience than the supervisors they will be working under there...wish them the best of luck....:ooh:

[Mustapha Rex]

I would not call GF reference in terms of experience Ironbutt, from my last flights with them its more sultrexperience and laziness.

Sorry but I still think that EY is better then that.

[bus787]

It is illegal in any country to board an aircraft drunk.
it is also illegal to get drunk on board an aircraft.
No matter which airline,which country these are international rules.

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

Then surely it is also illegal for the cabin crew to serve drinks to drunk passengers. I guess they better start locking up lots of people.

[ironbutt57]

Sorry you had a bad experience with our crews guess it could happen anywhere...lots of our more experienced crews are leaving to EY....what does that have to do with your experience on GF?? other than the same crews you commented on above will now be serving you on EY..sad to see some of them leave, others not so sad...

[Mustapha Rex]

others not so sad...

That is exactly the problem, hopefully EY will be smart enough not to let them ply their trade here either!:bored:

[Quokka]

I had an excellent two flights on GF, the check-in girls and the cabin crew were pleasant and efficient. Best curries I've ever had on an aircraft. Unless something has changed in the last three years, I'd fly GF tomorrow.

[gccpro]

Must have been the hunger mate, it does amzing things to your taste buds.:E

[Quokka]

...used to be my Golden Rule for cooking... if you stuff it up... curry it. :E

[gccpro]

Very strange sight over the Gulf on the evening of the 7th

:E

Must have been one of those memorable GF flilghts...

[CT7]

Back to basics, the yobbos obviously stuffed up badly. Possibly the UAE legal system got a charge wrong. If they hadn't been acting up this thread would never exist.

Simple, behave on aircraft!

And when in Rome do as the Romans (read UAE) and yes I live here so I DO know what goes on...

[EYGirl]

Mustapha and Co., read again my post.

I work in a proffesional way and I was trained in an excellent way by the airline (like my colleagues). I was not in that flight but I was in many like this one.
The moment this paxs touched the poor cabin crew, this man got his ticket to prision, NO ONE HAS the right to touch/jump/attack or whatsoever. I repeat, that girl could have been your wife, girlf, mother or daughter. I said and I repeat, f@ck this pax (due to his behaviour).
For the rest, I work as my team, with very high standards, paxs leave our flight with a wonderfull smile. I never am arrogant to my customers, never, we are providing a service and our goal is to keep them satisfied.

Alcohol on Board:
It is hard, but as a customer you have the right to drink, because it is part of our service (not to get drunk).
Having a drunk pax at FL390 is very disgusting for the crew, the paxs and the safety of the flight.
A pax can have loads of drinks before boarding the plane, can even drink a full bottle of vodka (from the airport dutyfree) while seated in FirstClass, can ask his wife to get more drinks, can ask different crews for a glass of champagne (we try to comunicate each other regarding how many drinks are serve to Mr X or Ms Y) there are many tricks that this paxs can do that make it so hard to realize when is already late. But this happens only few times. Unfortunately this time it went to far.
If you approach a customer (holding the management pressure on your back) and you explain him/her that there wont be anymore drink, he/she will think that you r saying he/she is drunk (and she/he is) then the pax explode and we (crew) loose.
There are different methods to stop this, the famous one is the "4 D's".

But since the topic we want to discuss in this forum is regarding the UAE LAW and not the service/professionalism of the crew nor behaviour of the paxs. That is why I came with the cocaine example, I should not use cocaine but it was the first example came to my mind.
The point is the airline is offering (which according to local laws) something illegal (alcohol). So there is a big problem here, or either the law is adapted to western type of law or the service is adapted to the local law.

For ANSA, Musty and Sindwhatever, stop the agression, you can discuss about the topic but without being agressive, if you start the bulls#it of EYSheila, Chicken or Beef, shame on you etc... I can say that in bed Musty was so bad that I turned lesbian... that Ansa has it to small that I couldnt feel it and etc... so I do not want to start arguing like a stupid teenager with you guys, first of all respect me, yourself and the readers of this forum. Second, continue with the topic.

EYGirl.

PS: sorry my spelling, english is not my mother language.

[Mustapha Rex]

EY girl,

There is a famous saying: Keep your mouth shut and appear stupid or open it to prove it!

Do yourself and your colleagues a favour, don't try and justify yourself or your inability to spell in english, no one needs to hear it, your previous posts show that you represent exactly what passengers should fear when flying with us, a total lack of respect.

It is not your decision whether we serve or not serve, you are employed to carry your duties out and from what I read, you don't even have the mindset to do just that.

So spare me the rethoric of quality training, because if so, your attitude is a poor reflection of that!

Bye!:E

And by the way Sheila, it's: "Beef or Chicken, or veg or non veg"

[Sinbad1]

EY Girl,:*

"For ANSA, Musty and Sindwhatever, stop the agression, you can discuss about the topic but without being agressive, if you start the bulls#it of EYSheila, Chicken or Beef, shame on you etc... I can say that in bed Musty was so bad that I turned lesbian... that Ansa has it to small that I couldnt feel it and etc... so I do not want to start arguing like a stupid teenager with you guys, first of all respect me, yourself and the readers of this forum. Second, continue with the topic."

There was a presenter in Australia years back called Derryn Hinch he used to always start his current affairs by saying "Shame... Shame... Shame..." Shame on you Musti or ANSA! I thought the Aussies are better than that..Bad in bed?? Turning the poor EY girl to lesbian?? Too small that the poor EY girl could not feel it!!??
EY girl don't worry - there are plenty of hamoor in the gulf you know...

On a more serious note; EY girl I think you are going from bad to horribly bad.You are THE shining example of extremely bad EY girl behaviour. You are a real shame to that uniform. You obviously have placed yourself in the picture of what the cabin crew should not do, be or behave.

Your examples are stupid, your language is vulgar and obviously your promiscuous daily habit is just one of the truthful points which Musti had raised on this forum about some of EY promiscuous habits with their bosses. Furthermore with your remarks "I repeat, that girl could have been your wife, girlf, mother or daughter" I would be too ashamed to have you as a colleague let alone a sister.
As for your remark "I work in a professional way and I was trained in an excellent way by the airline (like my colleagues)." God help us all, and this is what I have been saying all along that it is poor quality cabin crew like you which gives other EY crew who are very good, and very nice a bad name.

I have to agree strongly with the Musti remarks to you

*EY girl take that bubble gum out of your mouth before opening it.
*In the meantime, do yourself and your employer a favour, keep your comments to yourself.

Finally respect must be earned not given.

Sindwhatever (Sinbad the sailor man toot toot!)

Safe and Happy flyinf to all:ok:

[Mustapha Rex]

I just wonder how long it took EY girl to mull this one over.....Jesus she's bad!

[cumulus pajaritus]

Muttley Crew Said:
Some of you guys are really letting yourselves down, hooking into EY Gal like that.
Not nice, Mustapha. Are you really a professional?

I have to agree 100% with Mutt, this girl is trying to get to a point and some of you guys are showing a lack of professionalism... :=

I also agree with some stuff mentioned by EY-Girl... remember she is a crew and we all are part of the same team, moreover we are all in the same a/c... CRM (there is a nice book called The Naked Pilot by David Beaty, one of the example showed, was the Saudi flight that burnout in the taxiway due to the arrogance of the cptn... same reactions I am observing from Mustapha.

Rgrds,

Cu Pa.-

[gccpro]

Thanks to you cumulus P we will have a mutiny on-board very soon.

CRM does not mean to each his own or "I decide what I feel like doing today" CRM is about each pulling his/her weight. Pilots fly the aircraft safe and the crew ensure service is carried out to standard. While the first is being done, not sure the second is. SO don't give me this CRM crap because it is convenient to you, actually if CRM was taken into consideration, this incident would have probalby not happened. But thanks to you we have people who have an excuse to ehy nothing is done the way it should be. With your ionterpretation of CRM very soon you will be at the heels of GF in terms of quality of service.

This is about service and you like EY girl fail miserably, perhaps this is why we should thank you for not being able to secure any recognition by aviation media for the quality of our onboard service.

Before taking on this militant stand I suggest you look at the current position of serious competitors like EK and QR and tell me if such issues are ever raised?

No?

Well I guess it answers our question then

[Sinbad1]

Below is an extract from EY Girl input on this forum.:ooh:

Interview with EY Girl as to how cabin crew should handle difficult or drunk pax:

Q, Do you consider yourself professional and trained for such incidents??

EY Girl; "I work in a professional way and I was trained in an excellent way by the airline"

Q, What do you think is the best way to handle such situations??

EY Girl; I repeat, f@ck this pax , and a kick in his balls

Q, You have been accused by some aggressive people on this forum as an arrogant female dog to your customer. Are you arrogant??

EY Girl; "I never am arrogant to my customers.

Q, So what do you suggest??"

EY Girl; " A nonstop ticket to jail (and a kick in his balls)."

Q, Any other suggestion EY Girl??

EY Girl; "There are different methods to stop this the famous one is the "4 D's".

Q, I take it your Famous 4D method did not work in this case ?? NO..???


Q, Do you think this topic concentrates around what customer service ought to be, or around the discussion of the cabin crew's Service/professionalism, or pax behaviour???

EY Girl; "But since the topic we want to discuss in this forum is regarding the UAE LAW and not the service/professionalism of the crew nor behaviour of the paxs"
EY Girl ; "That is why I came with the cocaine example"

Q, Have you suffered any emotional upset, or been affected by the remarks from some of the people on this forum, or noticed any change in your sexual preferences since the incident on board the EY flight from Sydney??


EY Girl ; "Musty was so bad that I turned lesbian... Ansa has it to small that I couldnt feel it."

Q, So you are saying if the drunk person had been a woman with short Di...:mad:..ck that would have made it OK since you are a lesbian now!!! "and etc..."

EYGirl "PS: sorry my spelling, english is not my mother language so I do not want to start arguing like a stupid teenager .

Thank you EY girl for your highly professional input.

Best Wishes Sindwhatever
Safe and happy flying to all:ok:

[4HolerPoler]

I cannot, honestly, remember so much crud on a thread.

But carry on; this is your thread.

4HP

[Sinbad1]

4HolerPoler:oh:
"I cannot, honestly, remember so much crud on a thread.)

I am sorry if you find such language crude and offensive, But the reality is these were the actual replies from the EY girl posted on this forum. Please refer to post 72,78,112.

Safe and happy flying to all:ok:

[EYGirl]

Sinbad, I can not agree with you, you are changing what I wrote (although it sounds funny) but cut it out... you are confusing this topic.
I guess you guys are enjoying it, I enjoy watching it too, but not too much... you guys are starting to look too unprofessionals... yeah yeah like me... sindi, musti and the rest: @#$%^&!

Going back to the topic... we can't!

It is hard to believe that due to this bunch of drunk paxs this topics turns against me... that due to few post that I wrote, so much unprofessionalism came out from this Sindi-Musti group...
I must say that all the cockpit crew that I have flown so far are excellent guys and very professionals (EY) and I do not think you guys are EY crew, perhaps not even airline crew... you sounds like a bunch of frustrated guys trying to promote anger here...

Appologies to the rest, I tried to keep this forum to the main topic, but the childish reactions from Musti-Sindi took it too far away... hey! at least it entretained you! :yuk:

:yuk:

:zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz:

[Mustapha Rex]

Well, the most important is that now you know, so you have the tell tell signs of any potential incident in the making, and perhaps, if anyhting, that should matter EY girl.

Yes you are funny, an no I am EY, just worried sometimes about what I see!:ooh:

Take care and happy flying, enjoy every moment of it!:ok:

Not sure about the laesbian bit though, surely size isn't everything?:E

[GoreTex]

What is going on in EY?
you arrest pax for not having a drinking license, your cabin crew say they turn lesbians, you have an italian captain who is known back home as the clown who faked his logbook and got thrown out from AZ to join Lauda Air, boy oh boy.

[Sinbad1]

Dear EY Girl,;)
On behalf of the Sindi-Musti syndicate I wish to tell you profoundly that NO harm was intended toward the EY girls. If you go back and start reading from the beginning of this forum you will see that I was quite sympathetic with most of EY cabin crew girls, What we the Sindi-ANSA-Musti and many of the good people on this forum (please read carefully I shall say this only once) WE WERE TALKING ABOUT MANAGEMENT AND LACK OF TRAINING and among other issues. GOT IT NOW? As it happens, I do know some of the EY girls and as I said before some of them are really nice, and as it also happens I flew with them as well.

As for me confusing the issue, I was merely trying to show how far off the track you were on this topic (No offence intended). When I started in the airline you had probably just been born and NO I am not releasing any frustration or anger and NO I will not turn Gay just because you were bad in bed or have very hairy legs or have an F size bra.( I hope you are not Bloke or a geezer in disguise) Just jokin.

Your remark "It is hard to believe that due to this bunch of drunk paxs this topics turns against me... that due to few post that I wrote, so much unprofessionalism came out from this Sindi-Musti group...".
If you make silly remarks you must expect some responses to states the facts.
With Your continuous remarks like that one "Apologies to the rest, I tried to keep this forum to the main topic, but the childish reactions from Musti-Sindi took it too far away.." YOU keep shooting yourself in the FOOT. But I ame sure you are also very nice.

Love and safe and happy flying to all:ok:

xxx

[miss petal]

I flew with EY three times.. sorry to say it's a second class crew.
You can sense it and you can see the difference when you're flying with EK or maybe QR

Ignorance, messy, noisy... I even scared to sit on the aisle seat.. they 'ran' in the cabin aisle. I have no idea why..

They simply ignoring you .. I had to got up and went to the galley my self since they couldn't provide with the answer I was asking. ( three times asking ) They even scared to tell me something they don't have.. leave alone refusing alcohol or take action with pax with such behaviour...

They need to learn a lot.. a lot more...

[gccpro]

I sadly concur with you Petal...sadly!

[sec 3]

Yes it is very sad, but true. The only people who seem not to notice are the management:bored:

[EYGirl]

Now that we are talking about service, I have to agree with you guys, sometimes and in some routes the services is not so "high standard" as we would like to offer.
Taken from a pax, once I was working on Economy, an Indian pax mentioned something very true... I was taking him from Germany to AUH... he wondered why the service was allways better from Germany to AUH than AUH to India?... and I started noticing the same.
We promise too much, in some flights than we can offer it (long legs, few paxs) then we have short legs, full flight and hard to provide the service we (we means they, they means management) want to offer.
Then we get pressure from Management, do this and do that, more and more, and they start pushing us with some non-sense things regarding the service. Motivation starts to go down, making it so ugly to work with some seniors, the more pressure they have the more nervous they get, the more difficult they make it to work as a team. Guess what! ugly team, ugly face and that what the paxs notice.
On the other hand, when we have a wonderful team, supportive one, making it so nice to work, the paxs notice that and they are pleased and we are happy and everybody enjoy the flight.
It is true, there are some crew who do not deserve to keep working, they have zero idea about providing a proper service, fortunately they are just few people... unfortunately you need at least 20 good things to cover just one bad job...

Why dont they leave and give way to motivated crew to do a proper job?
Thats is hard to answer... working in the MidEast... where you get so many wonderfull credit cards, where the glamour shines and you get all of the sudden into a wonderfull world of consumption... you get DEBTS... it is like hotel California you just can not leave...
And as it was mentioned before, same thing happened in GulfAir or QR, perhaps EK too, they are loosing good people because of the lack of motivation... it is like a whirpool... too many ingredients mixed together you get this...

My personal experience?... I still enjoy it, I have been here since mid 2005 and lucky me, I did not get into debts (i am free).
I am also lucky, since so far I worked with wonderfull people and great paxs... but I hear some bad stories...

I have good friends in EK, they notice the same...
Who are you gonna blame? of course! the only contact you have onboard are the cabin crew... complaints goes up starting with us and pressure goes down from management all the way down to the lastest link: cabin crew.

As a pax or a customer, you are and should be always right, I agree with you all the time you complain, that is when my duty and responsibility gets to it maximum -regarding service, top priority is always safety- and I must respond properly in order to recover the customer we are losing (that is why I got into a service industry)...
But we are just the last link of a long chain and has to be strong enough all the way from the begining otherwise it wont work, it is senseless.

So far it is a free market, you can choose some of our competitors which are also good ones.
But when you are on my flight I will do my best to make you come back.

(except those clowns that attacked my colleague) :=

Good luck...

PS: I am not lesbian! ...my girlfriend is :}:}

[Sinbad1]

EY Girl
"
PS: I am not lesbian! ...my girlfriend is :}:}".

It does not matter EY girl, I have known many very nice Lesbian cabin crew..shame they are lesbian.

After almost three decades in the Airlines Industry look what I have turned into!!!!


http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa28/sindbad1/6dff472b.gif?t=1182017180

Say hello to your girl friend. :E

Happy and safe flying to all:ok:

The sindi-Musti syndicate

[EYGirl]

you are so sweet!
:yuk:

[Knight flyer]

I have been reading this thread for the last couple of weeks with interest and today, came accross some information from an inside source.

The 3 First Class flight attendants responsible for the false arrest and detention of the 3 Australians in Abu Dhabi, have been sacked by Etihad.

It is my understanding that they were responsible for 'criminal' activities and are the basis of a substantial legal suit against the airline.

Just for the record. Two were Syrian and the third a phillipino.

I pose this question. If these women were so 'innocent'. Why were their services no longer required?

[GMDS]

Answer: It's in the local culture.
Something happens: first sack the poor employees involved (mostly expats). Then cover up the huge c**k-up of the really responsible (mostly ....... ) and finally forget about everything because the scapegoat culprits have been found by the latter.

[Fox3snapshot]

Just got served a JD and coke at the lounge in Abu Dhabi by what is unquestionably a very friendly Moozy barman and I don't have a liquor licence....doh!

The fun police are on the way over, its the end of the world as I know it....

:{

Ok everything up to the fun police bit is fact after that it is officially a Jack Daniels moment!!

:E

Hmmmm, my GF scheduled departure to London (via Muscat, Bombay, Delhi, Rangoon and Saana) 20.20....new departure time 00.20 In-sha-lah.... :oh:

[Severely Jetlagged]

Pprune is certainly living up to its name as a rumour network but the rumour that the Aussies were arrested or being charged for not having a liquor license is total and utter rubbish with not an ounce of truth to it. You do not need a liquor license to enjoy an alcoholic drink onboard an Etihad flight.

On the other hand the rumours of them being totally drunk, out of control, exposing themselves; a disgrace to their families, Company and Country; sexually harassing the crew, antagonising, harassing and disrupting the other First Class passengers, disobeying the crews and captains initial polite requests and then stern demands, rude and obnoxious behaviour....well.

[E Tops]

So did the First Class Crew really get canned??!!

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

Snaith was convicted by three judges of using offensive language, for which he received a six month suspended sentence, and fined $330 for being a non-Muslim drinking without a permit.

but Severely Jetlagged says,
the rumour that the Aussies were arrested or being charged for not having a liquor license is total and utter rubbish with not an ounce of truth to it

Well mate you better let the Abu Dhabi judiciary that they just fined a guy for something he was never charged with. So far from all the reports, the Abu Dhabi police confirmed that they were charged with drinking without a permit, the airline has reluctantly confirmed that they were charged with drinking without a permit, the guys lawyer confirmed that they were charged with drinking without a permit.... but hang on they are all wrong cos Severely Jetlagged says they were never charged with such an offence... even though one of the guys was subsequently fined by the courts for such an offence :confused:

[avgas321]

Dont tend to post too much on here as nine times out of ten, anyone who does is immediately shot down in flames for having an opinion that differs from the majority.

Severely Jetlagged is absolutely correct in every single word that he has posted. Not that this will cut any mustard with the majority, but as ground staff with Etihad, I was actively involved in this unfortunate event as it unfolded, and the passengers concerned were an absolute disgrace, regardless of the position they found themselves in and however upset they were with the situation they faced on board.

What they have eventually been charged with I find confusing, and Etihad have certainly not followed through with the promises that were made to the cabin and flight crew concerned. I am sure there are reasons why of which I have no knowledge and cannot comment on further. Etihad was given an unfortunate opportunity to make a strong statement for both passengers and staff alike, and has failed spectacularly.

Finally, if anyone can comment on when this type of behaviour - verbal and physical abuse to both cabin and flight crew alike as mentioned by Jetlagged - is acceptable, then I'd be pleased to retract my comments.

Regards.

[Fox3snapshot]

Have you just pulled your head out of the sand mate!!!??? :hmm:

Refer to my original post and the start of this thread, the information was directly from the police and subsequent lawyer statements, here are some of them if you can't be ar*ed to scroll back and get the 'facts' from the original charges and press release.

....as convicted by three judges of using offensive language, for which he received a six month suspended sentence, and fined $330 for being a non-Muslim drinking without a permit. "No-one is denying he had a drink but it was warm champagne served by the airline," Mr Hill said.


Numpty....:suspect:

[gccpro]

varying opinions does not mean disagreement just a different perspective on the issue.

Regardless of passengers being right or wrong, the way this incident was handled goes a long way to show how far Abu Dhabi and EY are from understanding what tourism and its risks are and general customer handling skills.

Well all I can say is: NEXT!:cool:

[planecrazi]

Only rumor of course, the CM skipped UAE with a brown envelope containing about 7-9 months wages. Could this possibly be from the accused? CM is AWOL and has not been heard of for a while.:ok:

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

From avgas321,
Severely Jetlagged is absolutely correct in every single word that he has posted

So you are saying also that the police are lying and the courts are lying and in fact these men weren't in fact charged found guilty and fined for drinking alcohol without a permit???

As Fox said, and as I have said repeatedly (if you bothered to read the whole thread you would see this), nobody here has defended the way these people acted and that is not the point of the thread. What has been said again and again and again :ugh: is that the incident was handled poorly, and the charging of passengers with drinking without a liquor permit is a disaster for Etihad and the UAE in general. Charge them and lock them up for their behaviour but don't cloud the issue by bringing drinking alcohol as a non-muslim in a muslim country into it otherwise you will scare off a lot of potential customers.

For the record I am well and truly done with this thread, as I have to repeat the same thing every page cos people don't bother to read the entire thread and instead spout rubbish like "noone has been charged with drinking without a permit", and "why do you guys defend this behaviour", and "where in the world is this behaviour acceptable" and "when American airlines offer cocaine on arrival into New York...". Have fun people :ok:

[Severely Jetlagged]

AirNoServicesAustralia,

I am not even going to try and dispute what you read in the National Enquirer and kindly reproduced here as fact for all to read.

My post was merely an attempt at the truth for a change.

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

And which of these news sources do you consider the "National Enquirer" cos where I am from the Australian Broadcasting Corporation is a highly respected news source and they say,
Jeremy Snaith has received a six month suspended sentence for drinking alcohol without a permit and using offensive language.
And this source is from another respected newspaper in Australia, being "The Australian" and the source of the quote is from Etihad Airline themselves,
THREE Australians charged in the United Arab Emirates with drinking alcohol and sexual harassment on a plane are expected to be deported after judges handed two of the men suspended sentences and acquitted the third last night, a spokeswoman for the UAE airline said.
As printed in the Age Newspaper Melbourne,
A spokesman for Snaith and Evans, who are both directors of Jupiter Mines Ltd, said the trio were due in the Abu Dhabi court at 9am local time (3pm AEST).
Spokesman Sean Mulcahy said the prosecution brief had contained a surprising charge.
"The most interesting charge that we find the gentlemen are facing is drinking alcohol on a flight as non-Muslims without a permit," Mr Mulcahy told AAP from Abu Dhabi.
"I'd be very concerned if I was flying Etihad at this point in time as a passenger if you did have your ticket booked that you had your alcohol drinking permit."

But hey you know what, of course you are right, and all these sources are obviously lying.

[Wizofoz]

My post was merely an attempt at the truth for a change.

Based on what source? The facts as stated by ANSA where also what was reported in the middle eastern press, based on press releases from the Abu Dhabi Government.

It is technically illegal to drink alchohol or be drunk in the UAE without a permit. It is tolerated (i.e the law is simply not enforced) in hotels and on aircraft, but in this case it was applied.

Exactley what part of this are you saying isn't true and based on what evidence?

[planecrazi]

So the boys had a nice welcome home party (http://www.theage.com.au/news/Business/Jupiter-cuts-loose-misbehaving-directors/2007/06/22/1182019333360.html)! :D

Jupiter cuts loose misbehaving directors


Iron ore explorer Jupiter Mines Ltd has moved to distance itself from two directors who were arrested in Abu Dhabi after an alcohol fuelled incident on an Etihad Airways flight in April.

Jupiter said it had terminated the consultancy agreements with directors Jeremy Snaith and David Evans, who were convicted of sexual harassment and intoxication by an Abu Dhabi court.

"The board has determined that monies payable under the consultancy agreements between directors David Evans and Jeremy Snaith and the company be terminated and that the agreements themselves be terminated," Jupiter said.

The incident occurred on a flight from Sydney to Abu Dhabi on April 27.

Mr Evans, Mr Snaith and a third man were detained in Abu Dhabi after airline staff reported them for allegedly engaging in drunken, lewd behaviour during their first-class Etihad flight.

Mr Evans received a twelve month suspended sentence for touching a stewardess on the arm and using offensive language while Mr Snaith received a six months suspended sentence for using offensive language and a fine for drinking alcohol on a flight without a permit.

The company's handling of the incident is set to come into question after some shareholders and directors requested a meeting to oust Mr Evans and Mr Snaith and consider ongoing management of Jupiter.

"The company has received a request from directors and a requisition from a number of shareholders that a meeting of the members of the company be called both to consider ongoing management of the company and for removal of David Evans and Jeremy Snaith as directors of the company," Jupiter said.

Jupiter said the notice of the general meeting would be send to shareholders in "due course".

Investors have reacted favourably to the news, pushing Jupiter shares four cents or 19.5 per cent higher to 24.5 cents by 1245 AEST on Friday.