Well done AOPA.

[rustle]

Reading this month's "General Aviation" reminded me of just how lucky we are to have an organisation like AOPA who work so tirelessly for us.

The article, starting pg 5, about "Specialist Fuel" is a brilliant illustration of the way AOPA works for its members and for other GA users as well.

Instead of selfishly focusing only on specialist issues that benefit none but the people in their club (or association), this is something AOPA are fighting for for all GA.

Well done and I hope it is successful. :D :ok:

[SkyHawk-N]

What about "Specialist Fuel"?

[rustle]

Seeking and obtaining a statement from the CAA that AVGAS is a "Specialist Fuel" (their words) which will assist AOPA in their representations to the Treasury in relation to taxation on AVGAS following the EU directive on fuel taxation a while ago.

A specialist fuel could, arguably, have its own tax-code and be taxed "differently" to car fuel...

May mean AVGAS goes up by 2p/L rather than the projected 30p/L as would happen if the EU directive were followed and no separate tax code applied.

[Mike Cross]

You can read back copies of "General Aviation" online here. (http://www.aopa.co.uk/scripts/magazine.php)

My reaction when mine dropped through the letterbox this morning was the same as Rustle's. It will appear on the above website in due course (the paid-up members deserve some privileges!)

Have a read through some of the back numbers and see if you think the work being done is worthy of your support (less than an hour's flying cost per annum).

[SkyHawk-N]

I'm on the other side ... http://www.aopa.org/ :ok:

[rustle]

I'm on the other side ...

Great, but WTF has that got to do with AVGAS prices in the UK? :ugh:

Here's a UK organisation that is to all intents and purposes trying to give all [UK] AVGAS users 28p for every litre they burn and the best you can do is tell us you support an American organisation that doesn't. Brilliant.

[Final 3 Greens]

Instead of selfishly focusing only on specialist issues that benefit none but the people in their club (or association), this is something AOPA are fighting for for all GA.

Instead of representing their members interests, they are representing all GA?

Mmmmm. Why bother to join then, if AOPA acts pro bono?

[IanSeager]

Mmmmm. Why bother to join then, if AOPA acts pro bono?

erm, because it woudl be the right thing to do?

Ian

[Rod1]

Speaking as a member of AOPA and the PFA I would say that both work hard representing members interests, and if this is good for the general flying community then this is a bonus. I would encourage everybody to join both as we are desperately short of resources to fight our (GA) corner.

Rod1

[S-Works]

I am doing far to much agreeing with Rod these days.......

Let me also make it perfectly clear, AOPA US do not support UK GA in any shape or form. For all the benefit you get from a US based organisation you might as well join the Florida branch of the evangelist church.

I am an AOPA US member and an AOPA UK member as they represent me at home and in the US.

So how about that those plastic aircraft...... :p :)

[ShyTorque]

You can read back copies of "General Aviation" online here.
My reaction when mine dropped through the letterbox this morning was the same as Rustle's. It will appear on the above website in due course (the paid-up members deserve some privileges!)
Have a read through some of the back numbers and see if you think the work being done is worthy of your support (less than an hour's flying cost per annum).

:hmm: While on the subject of support, how about those with no personal title getting round to spend a few quid on supporting this website which allows us to voice these online opinions?

I think it's very presumptious indeed to lobby for contributions to another organisation through a medium for which you haven't contributed yourself!! :rolleyes:

[David Roberts]

AOPA UK is doing a good job on this subject. But I also know that it is not just AOPA, because the meetings with the Treasury have been a joint effort with other UK representative organisations such as the GA Alliance (covering most air sports associations such as the PFA, BGA, BMAA etc) and BBGA.

There is a dedicated group of people in the lower weight end of GA that work together across the various representative organisations to try and secure the right outcome for their members in this ever changing (and challenging) regulatory environment. AOPA rightly uses its publicity machine to inform its members of its success and progress. Other organisations (volunteers) have less time to push out the publicity, though it is covered in those associations' magazines.

There is much background work, meetings and negotiation going on quietly on many topics, not least Mode S in the UK.

[Rod1]

David is spot on. The alliance was involved in the special fule idea, and is working hard to solve the biofuel threat which may lead to an alternative fuel for most of GA. The PFA have been working on this for nearly 2 years. All the organisations need more recourses, but it is a shame AOPA shun the alliance as it is better to have one very loud voice, and lots of representatives on the committees which have a standard per agreed position.

Rod1

[Fuji Abound]

The NHS is doing a really good job as well .. .. ..

they are treating patients .. .. ..

what a surprise,

I thought a bit like AOPA they are being paid to do a job, and when they actually do the job, we fall over ourselves congratulating them.

Mmmm, I am afraid AOPA's record has been pretty poor in the past - I hope that changes, but the odd swift is not enough to convince me Summer has arrived.

[Fly Stimulator]

The alliance was involved in the special fule idea

A Nigel Molesworth initiative I presume?

[Mike Cross]

ST

I'll take that in the spirit I'm sure it was intended. If Danny is short of fuel for the boilers I'll be happy to contribute, however I don't feel the need for a personal title. FWIW the AOPA UK Forums are also free access and donations are not solicited. (There is a member's area, just as there are closed forums here).

I'm not lobbying for contributions, I suggested that people read the magazine and decide for themselves whether they want to be members, not quite the same thing.

I'm a member of PFA and AOPA. As far as I am aware AOPA UK is the only UK organisation represented at ICAO (through Frank Hoffman of IAOPA). It's also well represented in Europe through IAOPA Europe.

In the EASA framework Martin Robinson is the IAOPA Europe representative on the EASA Advisory Board, the Eurocontrol Representative and the ICAO European Air Navigation Group. Pamela Campbell is the IAOPA Representative on Flight Crew Licensing.

Dr Ian Perry and Dr Niels Knock are the IAOPA Europe specialists on Medical Issues.

Martin Robinson is Deputy Vice-President of IAOPA Europe and Pamela Campbell is its Secretary. All of the above are from AOPA UK.

No organisation can be all things to all men and often the most effective organisations are run by strong willed individuals who get people's backs up (vide Rupert Murdoch). There are things I dislike about both PFA and AOPA but I support both of them.

[rustle]

Now, now, ladies.

This started as a thread to discuss something positive about AOPA's efforts and once again people can only find fault.

Saving 28-odd pence/L on fuel is quite a Good Thing IMHO, and within two hour's flying has paid for the AOPA membership in a 100L/hr twin.

What with fuel price campaigning and an accessible IR I would have thought people would be clapping and cheering for AOPA - but GA in this country isn't like that at all.

[Fuji Abound]

What with fuel price campaigning and an accessible IR I would have thought people would be clapping and cheering for AOPA - but GA in this country isn't like that at all.

A very old trick is to do things badly for a long time, so that when you start to do things better, everyone claps (almost out of surprise). Of course, people had forgotten you were simply doing what you got paid to do in the first place.

Fortunately GA in this country is a bit more cynical, and for those of us who have been around for a while - have seen it all before.

Lest we forget the farce with regards the CAA PPLIR has been around for nearly as long as I have been flying - and yet until now AOPA chose to do nothing. Campaigning for speacilaist fuel status has more than a few hallmarks about it of campaigning for the bl%%d*34 obvious - infact we should be more surprised if AOPA had NOT raised the matter - and a year ago they would not have done so.

Ultimately their success will be measured by whether they achieve anything on these and other issues and whether they keep up their more proactive stance - I hope they do, but I shall wait to be convinced.

[ShyTorque]

Mike,
The possession of a personal title isn't the important part. I refer you to your own earlier quote, regarding AOPA:
Have a read through some of the back numbers and see if you think the work being done is worthy of your support (less than an hour's flying cost per annum).

So why not have a read through PPRuNe back numbers and make a similar decision? :)

My point having been made, I'll leave you all to it, knowing that you won't wish to be regarded as evangelical cheapskates for a moment longer.

:D

[IO540]

What with fuel price campaigning and an accessible IR I would have thought people would be clapping and cheering for AOPA - but GA in this country isn't like that at all.

A lot of people have been banging on about a more accessible private IR for much longer than I have been flying. It would be wrong for AOPA to claim sole credit, or even the main credit, for this. I think PPL/IR (http://www.pplir.org)have done most of the work to kick off the most recent movements, by getting in at the right places.

However, I still believe that the ultimate "lubricant" for a more accessible private IR has been the stampede to the FAA option.

According to the latest info I've seen, there is a long way to go as the "new IR" still falls way short of the FAA option on accessibility to the typical private IFR pilot. But it's a step in the right direction.

[Fuji Abound]

I think PPL/IR have done most of the work to kick off the most recent movements, by getting in at the right places.

However, I still believe that the ultimate "lubricant" for a more accessible private IR has been the stampede to the FAA option.

Yep, exactly right.

Moreover, as someone else commented, it is to AOPAs shame (and for all I know some or all of the other representative bodies) that they seem to find it difficult to work with each other, and for this reason GA in all its forms have long been seen as ineffective lobbyists.

However, things maybe are changing. I commented some while ago that AOPA's web site was simply awful. They have now changed their web site and when I have 5 minutes I shall look to see with interest whether I might now feel compelled to join after many years of not renewing my membership.

[Fuji Abound]

Let me also make it perfectly clear, AOPA US do not support UK GA in any shape or form. For all the benefit you get from a US based organisation you might as well join the Florida branch of the evangelist church.

I think Bose has it exactly right so why .. .. ..


Join The Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association UK (AOPA UK) today along with over 400,000 members in 50 countries, it is the largest association for pilots in the world

does AOPA UKs very first line on their web site suggest otherwise?

I have no idea how many UK members they have, but whatever number it is be proud. If you represent UK pilots say so and dont make out you are something you clearly are not.

[Fuji Abound]

cjboy

I think you may have taken my comments a little to literally.

AOPA UK "sells" its subs on the basis it is "the voice of GA" - among other things, I suspect members expect AOPA will look out for their interests.

I fully appreciate that some of those who work for AOPA may get paid little or nothing.

The point remains that if you subscribe to a body that purports to represent your interests it is not unreasonable to expect that is exactly what they will do - and if they are fortunate enough, and indeed there are those kind enough to give of their time freely, to those I am indeed grateful.

[rustle]

Surely AOPA staff only get paid by their members, via the subscriptions, if they get paid at all! It is for the members to decide whether it's worth paying for; clearly some do not and therefore don't join.

If you don't join you can hardly complain! He who pays the piper calls the tune!

Exactly so. There are an awful lot of whingers in UK GA and very very few people who actually get off their arses and do anything to try and better things. (Some of them post here and/or on FLYER)

Equally there are, sadly, quite a lot of people who are better off financially because of the actions of AOPA and others but who only frequent these bulletin boards to grizzle about AOPA and others and delight in telling everyone how they don't pay for any of the benefits. :D