Merged: QF 777s and other rumours

[Keg]

Strong rumours starting to swell about QF finally getting with the program and ordering the 777. The rumouree didn't suggest a time frame but other's line of thinking indicates a relative hurry- by early to mid next year seems to be the common consensus although some have them arriving towards the end of this year (hence the late closures of the aircraft promotional bids but this doesn't sound right to me!). ILFC is said to be the source of the airframes and seven to ten is the approximate number.

Classics to be held onto despite the 777s coming although that could change on a moments notice.

Reports of up to 85 S/Os wanted in a hurry but only 35 'approved' (by whom I have no idea) at the moment.

5 737NGs currently on order to be expansion rather than replacement for the -400s.

Source is a mate who heard his wife discussing it with the wife of his uncle's brother in law who heard it mentioned on some other forum! :E :ok: Beyond that I accept no responsibility for the accuracy of the above information. None of it is from my normal sources and most QF drivers will have heard minor variations on the theme over the last month or so.

[ruprecht]

Classics to go by the end of 2008 apparently.

My source is similar to your source.

[2p!ssed2drive]

Cheers Mr Keg

Once again you've outdone yourself and I've enjoyed reading your post.

My letter (from QF) says 'There may be an opportunity for your file to progress in November 2007'....

Hopefully see you there soon bud

2p2d :ok:

[Guptar]

It sounds exciting but seems the &&& rumour comes round every 6 months or so for the last 3 or 4 years...........allways about to place an order but never seems to eventuate,

[RedTBar]

I thought all the production slots for the 777 were taken or did QF buy some from another airline?

Or are we rumoured to be leasing existing aircraft from someone?

[Taildragger67]

There are 32 unidentified orders (http://http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/index.cfm) this year for 777 (10 of which appear to be quite recently added).

As for leasing firms:
ILFC have 10 x 777-300ER still to be delivered
GECC have 18 x 777 undelivered

My point: I suggest up to 10 airframes could be secured at reasonably short notice.

But... if the end-of-year schedule is correct - isn't this a bit tight in terms of fleet integration? - Not only for crew training (both tech and CC) but engineering (such as is left :hmm:), flight ops, manual-writing, etc.; unless they're coming in on wet-lease?

[request deferred]

Keg, it's not a rumour.

In Geoff Dixon's recent address to investors ( can still be heard via podcast ) he quite openly said that he was meeting with Airbus that afternoon to discuss the A350XWB and the following week Greig was to meet with Boeing to discuss their proposal. The Boeing competitor is the 777-300ER.

[apacau]

Surely with the big 787 order, the A350 couldn't be on the cards???

B777-300ER however is another matter - the aircraft is already in service, could be brought in at (relatively) short notice and has significant additional capacity over the 787s. Perfect 743 replacement (indeed also 744) in fact.

I must say (from a pax point of view here, I might add) I generally prefer the Airbus products, but in this case, I don't see them having much chance. But hey, when was anything cut and dry in aviation?

[727ace]

Heard 4 will be converted to freighters next year and the others kept as pax to challenge tiger and e jets

[Angle of Attack]

When you look at the cost saving benefits when comparing the 777 and the 747-400 its a no brainer. Uses almost half the fuel (not quite) but can carry around 70% the pax. This latest rumour seems to be more serious than the last 57 ones that have come before! haha!

[hotnhigh]

Anyone spoken to the townsville refueller to get the latest on this one?

[speeeedy]

the wife of his uncle's brother in law

Wouldn't that be his mum? :E

:D :D Nice rumor though!

[Bolty McBolt]

747 Classics - Gooooone by early 2008

777 great idea and I for one would like to see it but there is no way engineering would support an introduction of a new type of this size at the moment. The training and tooling component alone combined with the introduction of the A380 would stretch what is left of the maintenace dept.
As it is the QF heirarchy is threatening to take the A380 maint away from QF engineering :ok:

[Fluke]

Bolty
I for one would like to see it but there is no way engineering would support an introduction of a new type of this size at the moment


That negative assumption about sums up the difference between working for an OZ airline or one of their overseas competitors. If management properly rewarded their staff (motivation) and staff believed in their own abilities (capability). Then I am sure Qantas could give this a good crack.

The Australian regulators are another matter.:ugh:

[Bumpfoh]

Received a briefing from engineering QS&RM (Quality Systems & Risk Management) around compliance and procedures amongst other things for LAME's recently.

One of the presenters is actively involved in A/C acquisitions and disposals from a QA perspective and he repeatedly stated that QF are getting B777's "soon". :ok:

No mention of how many and wasn't prepared to elaborate.:ugh:

[roamingwolf]

Boys and girls

i just saw a good rumor written on the inside a brasco at qcc.it reckons that GD has made an offer for all the old concordes and a stack of 1011's sitting out in the desert.then the taxi driver on the way to cronulla confirmed this because he knows someone who works in catering who's sister in law has a relative who works in GD's office.

[Alien Role]

QF B777's......;) perhaps no need to worry about CC training or pax configuration ???
Role on..

[Ramboflyer 1]

What about some DECs for the 777..............

[lowerlobe]

Alien Role..

I'm just curious as to why QF would not have to worry about CC training if they bought 777's.

[Alien Role]

Lowerlobe,
Freight perhaps....? :E

[SkyScanner]

Keg, rumour I keep hearing is 10 777-300er to go to Dallas, Dubai and Beijing. Although I did hear the rumour at La Cave ... or was it Fatties ... or Fight Club?!?

[Taildragger67]

Slight diversion, but when do the BA 767s return home (or have they already)?

[esreverlluf]

It appears QF will be keeping the ex BA 767s for quite a while yet - at least 2011 I think - they will probably be the last 767s that QF operate, with plans to dispose of the original QF 767s before then.

Then again, that may change, after all this is an outfit that still operates 743s!:E

[triadic]

The 'gos late last year was that the lease was renewed to 2012.

The majority of 76 flying now seems to be domestic - obviously that will have to be covered off before they go. My guess is that they will be around for sometime yet.

[Going Boeing]

It appears QF will be keeping the ex BA 767s for quite a while yet - at least 2011 I think - they will probably be the last 767s that QF operate, with plans to dispose of the original QF 767s before then.

I believe that the ex-BA 767's were built around 1992 - there are a number of GE powered B763's that were built later than that so I don't think that the Rollers will be the last. They'll probably go when the lease runs out. It will be hard for the owners to find a new lessor as there aren't many carriers operating 767's fitted with RR engines. The GE's will be a lot easier to dispose of with some of the American carriers planning to hold on to 767's for quite a few years yet.

Back to the original thread - It was reported on Qrewroom that Peter Gregg at one of the recent Roadshows stated that they were currently looking at both B777's and A350XWB for delivery from 2012 onwards. Apparently, there was nothing mentioned about early deliveries of the Tripler.

[squawk6969]

Them old Roller 767's are easy to spot, they are grubby damn things. Probably flogged to within an inch of their lives too!:uhoh:

SQ6969

[B772]

Boeing are still working on the B777-200ELR for QF. The latest initiave to reduce weight is the elimination of the window shade.

Since Virgin Atlantic announced their plan to operate LHR-PER-LHR nonstop QF has realised nonstops to LHR are the only weapon to fight the M.E carriers with.

Like it or hate it nonstops to Europe are coming.

[ZK-NSJ]

would they consider ordering 5 or 6 non -er -300's to replace the 743's

[cokecropduster]

Heard that the NRT's are going to be done by LH again. Anyone know why? It is suprising that SH don't do all of them since the company was saving so much money??

[flitegirl]

that's seems true. The new LH bid books are full of them. Some are combined with a LAX trip.... something like SYD/NRT/MEL/LAX/SYD. Will stand corrected if i'm wrong though!

[speedbirdhouse]

Can't for the life of me wonder why???

Surely its worlds best airline practice to employ HUNDREDS of culturally sensitive language speakers [many of whom are native] and send them NOWHERE NEAR the destination they were ORIGINALLY employed to service.................:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[cokecropduster]

Speed... Unfortunately, that doesn't mean much to the accountants. The has to be another reason. :}

[speedbirdhouse]

Yeah, couldn't be anything to do with "customer satisfaction".

The concept doesn't rate highly enough at the rat.........

[gigs]

maybe jitconnex has some play here mr coke guy. cheers gigs

[Long Bay Mauler]

So Keg,are you the Australian rep for Boeing,or are you getting a cut is a sale does ever happen?What is your percentage?

Or is this a case of if you start a good enough rumour,it will come true?:ok:

[Keg]

Bug-a-lugs, it's more a case of "if you say it often enough eventually it'll be true". :D :p

Another part of the rumour passed onto me in the last day or so suggest that various management personnel (including the training department) have just returned from Seattle in very recent times. I'm not sure if QF have sold the rights to the 777 sim they had on order a couple of years back or not. (Apparently getting a sim is a longer lead in then getting an airframe and so QF had an order in for a 777 a few years ago! :eek: )

I wish I had a percentage....I'd go for 50% of whatever the CEO is on! :mad:

[rammel]

One of the reasons QF always complains about not making money on routes that they only have rights to for 3-4 (CDG, ROM etc) times a week, is that a B744 is not economical.

Other airlines in Asia which also have access 3-4 times a week to these destinations, mainly use the B777 on these routes. These airlines are either bleeding cash, or because of the equipment they use it makes it economical for them.

I think the decision to not get the 777 for this type of thing has been a mistake on management's behalf for quite a while now. Instead they have shrunk QF and because they have been out of some markets for many years now, it may be hard to build that up again.

[alangirvan]

I thought QF and AF are pleased with the joint operation between France and Oz, through SIN, so much so that they have added HKG as a transfer point. This is much better than both airlines flying between France and Australia two or three times a week.

The same way of operating could be used for QF Italy services. Alitalia has a nice fleet of 777s, and they could connect onto the QF network at BKK, SIN or HKG. But, Alitalia gave up flying to Asia years ago.


I cannot see that a Jetstar operation would be the answer, because surely an operation to Italy or Greece would want to fly through SIN to allow connections from PER/BNE/ADL. If Jetstar operated it, they would still need QF flight numbers to allow the connections, and you would have the confusions as to which people have to pay cash for their meals and entertainment.

The new QF A330-200s would be a nice way to travel to Europe, though.

[404 Titan]

alangirvan
The same way of operating could be used for QF Italy services. Alitalia has a nice fleet of 777s, and they could connect onto the QF network at BKK, SIN or HKG. But, Alitalia gave up flying to Asia years ago.
That's why QF already code share with CX to Rome through Hong Kong.

[alangirvan]

Yeah, but you might as well do the whole trip on CX and get 'the best Chinese food in the air'. You get QF FF points on CX. Putting QF passengers onto a major competitor seems like a very strange way of doing business.

[404 Titan]

alangirvan

Airlines only do this when they:

1. Can’t justify putting their own aircraft on the route, i.e. not enough business. Most of Europe from Australia with the exception of the UK would be leisure therefore low yield.
2. Don’t have enough aircraft to service the route or more correctly the aircraft can be better utilised on more profitable routes, i.e. the UK or US.
3. Don’t have enough crew to service the route. “Same as above”

[alangirvan]

This is why QF has the joint operation to Paris, and why I think the best way for Qantas to carry traffic to Italy is by having a joint operation with an Italian carrier. Alitalia could fly from Rome to SIN and from Milan to Singapore. Milan would be a business city - Singapore Airlines started a service to Milan last year, and they are now using a bigger plane - 777-300ER replacing 777-200ER. The market is there if QF and AZ do not stand back and watch Singapore AL take it from them.


From trip reports on airliners.net, Alitalia is not too bad in Business Class. I think some of their 767s were flown by Australian crews.

[404 Titan]

alangirvan

From an outsiders point of view it would appear QF is moving away from using Singapore as a hub to Europe and the UK. Hong Kong and Shanghai seem to be the flavour of the month. Apart from flying from the west coast, the shortest distance to the above from the east coast is via HK and to a lesser extent Shanghai. It is also worth pointing out that to code share, there must be two airlines in agreement. Maybe QF couldn’t come to an agreement with Alitalia. Maybe QF is shy to use Alitalia which over the last decade or so has had a workforce that aren’t afraid to strike at little notice. This is all hearsay of course.

[Taildragger67]

Massive business risks to AZ - they've been on the brink of collapse for years and EU authorities are investigating whether they've been propped up by illegal state aid.

Barge pole/yours, etc.


I seem to recall that, when Jetstar Int'l was launched, there were loud noises about the lower-cost structure being spot-on for re-opening non-operational 'Qantas group' routes that mainline couldn't run at a profit and that this would eventually include multi-sector routes to Europe. Interesting that the growth talk seems to centre on mainline again...

[rammel]

I find it hard to believe that it was not economical for QF to go to Rome. I saw the loads on those flights and it was pretty much full of pax and freight every time. For those that tried to use staff travel on it, they will also testify that it was difficult to get on most of the year.

If you can't make money with an aircraft full of pax and freight, perhaps you should get out of the airline game. I think that most of the routes they pulled out of were economical, but there is more money to be made on other routes. If that is the case just say so, and don't continually feed everyone BS.

[mrpaxing]

old 743's/744 used too much juice. yields were also too low. now if you had a 777...................................money to be made:ok:

[galdian]

rammel
exactly correct, short and to the point.
Sadly :( propogated by people at the top... who are still there, and apparently will remain, after the pantomime that was the APA takeover.

The airline certainly should remain - certain dracula's could (arguably) be moved on and should be.. "liabilities on the balance sheet" ..."loss of faith from inversors" ... "uncertainty about priority of loyalties" etc etc, the options just keep flowing and flowing!

As a total sidebar - when's the next QF shareholders meeting, one can only hope it will be as volatile as it deserves to be.

[Animalclub]

alangirvan
This is why QF has the joint operation to Paris, and why I think the best way for Qantas to carry traffic to Italy is by having a joint operation with an Italian carrier. Alitalia could fly from Rome to SIN and from Milan to Singapore. Milan would be a business city - Singapore Airlines started a service to Milan last year, and they are now using a bigger plane - 777-300ER replacing 777-200ER. The market is there if QF and AZ do not stand back and watch Singapore AL take it from them.
If Australian airline accountants had their way Australian airlines (note small "a") would fly just one leg out of Australia and code share the rest of the journey!!!!

[Bolty McBolt]

Rumour from way up north
Source :-The feed back meeting/road show with that prique CFO Greg.
777 are coming won't say when but confirmed delivery.
Reading between the lines
Might be sooner than you think as deal is being brokered.
How many aircraft types will we have ? Could be up to 8 different types come October next year.
How do we support it? I see some O/T coming on. (Engineering)

FOG

[TwinNDB]

Bolty,

I don't know how much more O/T there is left available!

I'm not aware of any guys on blank lines that have been doing less than divisor since about the middle of last year and there are quite a few of them who are always up the 100 in 30 problem or 900 in 365. You just need to look at open time and see how many lines were being broken due to crewing problems in the last few bid periods.

Good news for all on the 'hold file' I'd think!

Twin.

[ruprecht]

I'm not aware of any guys on blank lines that have been doing less than divisor since about the middle of last year

You don't know anyone on the Classic or the A330?:confused:

[regitaekilthgiwt]

Bolty,

I don't know how much more O/T there is left available!

I'm not aware of any guys on blank lines

Think he might be talking about engineering...

Bring on the 777, far too late and....

FOG

[Bolty McBolt]

You don't know anyone on the Classic or the A330?
:confused:

Correct. Many of the A330 crews have been on leave punctuated by the odd trip. I don't know the figures but I am sure they are well short of 900.... :yuk:

[Jetsbest]

I know QF pilots who've flown less than 200 hours so far this calendar year due to QF`s great manpower planning. Coincidentally they've been obliged to use (waste?) a truckload of annual AND Long Service leave to help solve the situation. In all　this, QF has;
- pocketed the delayed-A380 compo from EADS,
- trained for 14 jets then gave four away and still kept training,
- implemented (quite rightly) the Carmen rostering system for enhanced efficiency, and
- avoided using the temporary surplus manpower to supplement other parts of the group.
Surely it can`t have been a crisis-managed and reactive "best effort" in dream market circumstances can it? Unfortunately, the alternative conclusion is just depressing... :sad:

They say they'll all be busy next year though!!

[TwinNDB]

fair enough,

should have said -400. :oh:

[Mr Seatback 2]

Any info on how many 777's to expect? Speculation on where they might go (Europe or Asia being possible), especially since DJ will be using them in the not too distant future to the US?

Given that NZ use them to LA, SFO and YVR from AKL, the options could be endless.

Curious times ahead...

[Taildragger67]

Anyone running a book on the chances of an announcement at Paris (which kicks off next week)?

Or (and this is pure speculation) an order involving the 747-8 (given Boeing are saying it will be able to do YSSY-KJFK direct)?

Alternatively, QF might be joining Emirates in pushing for Boeing to develop a 787-10... Boeing have been pushing back on that as it would eat into the(now fully-amortised) 777 programme.

That said, any 787-10 would be several years off (even if work started now) so 777 would be available rather sooner.


Mr Seatback 2,

NZ use their triplers on the London-via-HK run, also.

One suspects that the rat will be wanting to get as long a set of legs as they can on any 777s they acquire; this has been the theme of any comments they've made on the subject in recent years (eg. going back to '02) and when the 787 order was placed last year (or was it '05?) GoD explicitly said that 777s were not ordered at the time as the "commercial guys" couldn't get the profitability sums to work in terms of yield/load mix and service reliability year-round, both ways.

Maybe a couple of years of improvements in aerodynamics, engine technology and weight-saving measures, plus some in-service experience of the various E/LR 777 variants gleaned from other carriers, has enabled them to update the spreadsheets.

ATEOTD if you can make it go to London from Sydney then you can use it to anywhere in between. It doesn't really matter where it'll go - it either works in the fleet, or it doesn't. The 330s weren't 'supposed' to other than domestic but guess what they do now? :ugh:

These things (airframes) have an in-service life of usually 10-25 years so the use plans made when first acquired are unlikely to stay the same throughout such a time-frame. You don't see any -300s at EGLL these days, even though that's what they were bought to do.

[SkyScanner]

Updated figure is now 10-20 arriving in Sept 08

[Magoodotcom]

Updated figure is now 10-20 arriving in Sept 08
How is any airline, even one as big as Qantas, going to have the training and engineering capacity and resources to introduce three new major types in a period of about four months? A380 in August, 787 in October, and now 777 in September??? :hmm::hmm::hmm:

It's my understanding that the impending 380/787 arrivals and the accompanying drain on resources is what has really prevented QF from ordering the Triple.

Magoo

[Bazzamundi]

As Jetstar are being the first to operate the 787, surely they are doing all the work to introduce and set up for it, thus easing the stretched resources of QF mainline. QF mainline should only be worrying about the 380, which they have had years to work and plan for. Should all be smooth sailing in theory.

[mmmbop]

Just digressing a bit, but the mention of the 767 airframes retiring got me thinking. As QF start retiring the 76 airframes, do they automatically place 76 Tech Crew onto the 787 or 777, which could be wildly out of seniority, or do these slots still go on seniority?? (Remembering that the 787 is a replacement aircraft for the 76).
It just seems a bit strange and an incredible waste of money if it went on seniority, thus meaning 2 crew having to be trained for new aircraft instead of just the one on the aircraft replacing theirs.
M

[Going Boeing]

mmmbop

Normally fleet numbers reduce over a period of time and crew members start bidding off the fleet. Management massage the movement within the 12 month training period by allocating priority positions on other fleets to crew members of fleets where there is an excess (no bypass involved when it's within the training period). There would normally be very few crew members who would be left in a position where they would have to be assigned to a lower type.

SkyScanner

QF won't be getting Triplers that are 1990's technology, therefore I doubt that we will be getting them next year (are your sources reliable?). Deliveries starting 2012 is my understanding and they will be the "Series 2" version with a lot of B787 technology included - longer range, lower fuel burn, lower seat/km costs, common flight deck, etc. The only way that QF would take early delivery of Triplers would be if they were short term leases with the aircraft being replaced by the "Series 2" when they are available.

[Bolty McBolt]

Bazzamundi said
As Jetstar are being the first to operate the 787, surely they are doing all the work to introduce and set up for it, thus easing the stretched resources of QF mainline.

From my experience with Jet * Int they are not organised enough to run a chook raffle. Even when the tiniest event happens with the A330 fleet ( Honolulu was not tiny) the phone runs hot from all the bosses at Jet * Int, you end up explaining the sit rep 10 times instead of fixing the defect.

Plus I have heard on the grape vine that CASA have marked Jet * Ints card and have been told there is no way this ADHOC operation will be allowed to introduce new technology/type to the OZ register.

Which brings it straight back to QF engineering...... which means the characters whom now manage engineering with no operational experience yet alone introduced a new type had better pull their finger out and get some people onboard whom can because no consultant agency can pull them thru this.. CLOWNs


FOG

[roamingwolf]

hey bolty
mate is it true that the geoff up in hnl with pornstar cost $4 mill

[Capt_SNAFU]

Re the intro of the 787, The manager flight training said in the Flt op news letter a couple of months ago that QF flight training was happy yo be selected by JQ to train them on the 787:sad:. The article almost made me vomit. Like there would have been any other organisation in the running. Also funny in that JQ selected a training organisation that don't even have that sort of aircraft. Bit like Virgin selecting QF flt training to run the jungle jet training program. So it would seem that QF will be doing all the training program leg work and then charging JQ. Reckon the price was right? Seems like a load of :mad: BS to me.

[alangirvan]

Can we go back to the beginning? What will Qantas do with the 777-300ER? The 777-300 has been around for some years in the previous version, and Thai and Korean Airlines and Singapore Airlines have already operated the 773 from their home city to Australian ports. Qantas would not need the ER version to operate turnaround services to most parts of Asia. The 777-300 has a range of about 6000 miles according to the range charts on the Boeing site. I do not know if that includes all passengers and freight and 85% weather conditions.

The 777-300ER has a range of about 7300 miles according to the Boeing site. Will Qantas operate the 77W freely on services to Europe over the Himalayas. or does FANS mean that the Himalayas can be avoided?

So, does this leave routes to the USA as places where the 77W would go for Qantas?

[SkyScanner]

Goeing Boeing.... yes

[Magoodotcom]

What will Qantas do with the 777-300ER?
If QF goes with 777s, an ER would give them the flexibility to open up new 7000nm+ routes, rather than being hamstrung by a non-ER version.

Plus, I'm not sure I'd label the -300ER/-200LR as "nineties technology" compared to the 787. The latter has, in regards to its FMS and cockpit layout, been 'dumbed down' to the 777s level so that it may be sold to airlines with multi-type crewing needs, a la A320/330/340.

It's true a 'Series 2' 777 would make sense in order to combat the A350-900/1000, although I suspect a 2012 debut may be a little ambitious.

Cheers

Magoo

[SkyScanner]

Great point Magoo.. but also.. If the technology is so "OLD" why would CX and BA bother buying more of them?

[Going Boeing]

SS

BA & CX already have fleets of Triplers with that era technology. QF is going through a major fleet replacement program and the theme that I have been hearing is that they are only considering the latest technology because of the price of fuel. When you look at SQ who can write off aircraft as fast as 3 years thus they turn them over reasonably quickly and it is not as important to wait for the most efficient. Qantas is required under Oz Govmt legislation writes the aircraft off over 12 years and generally holds onto them for 20-24 years, therefore they want to acquire aircraft that will not be too outdated when they eventually retire them.

[chemical alli]

I have said it before and will again,the triple 7 rumor has been ressurected more times than jesus himself.qf couldnt possibly be smart enough/boeing 777 build slots are as rare as hens teeth since the 380 guppy has been delayed.the 787 will go direct to j* do not pass go.Peter Grieg stated at the roadshows,that the j* brand and a/c will aggressively be grown whilst only two new ports for mainline .
wait for two months for the next resurrection of the 777 rumor this is amendment 106a

[blow.n.gasket]

Every thing revolves around 2012.
The expiry of the EBA, new aircraft types meaning the end of the Long Haul Award, provisions in WorkChoices for Operational Redundancies.
There is your pool of qualified pilots.
Sack 'em then offer 'em a new job on a shiny new jet.
Hell if you want the job you will have to do it for less than JetStar!
The future is bright, the future is the poor house!:bored:
However a certain Federal election result if it goes a certain way might just stuff up a few Oldmeadow plans.
We can only pray!

[neville_nobody]

Blown Gasket

Geoff Dixon has already announced publicly along with alot of mining companies that he will want a exemption from any change in IR laws in the future. Don't think just as because Labour is in power that it will change things in aviation. Geoff claims that aviation is a "special case" and should be exempt from any changes in IR because they compete internationally etc.

To be fair to him, as mentioned above, other countries do have much more favourable work practices than Australia, however I am not sure that attacking IR is really the way of trying to balance it up.

The A380 debacle and the direction that the 787 is heading supports the old addage that you "Never buy the A model of anything"

[Keg]

Unconfirmed third hand rumour that 10-12 777s went to the board in the last couple of weeks to make up for the 787 delay. I suspect that if approved they'll be silver and orange rather than white and red. About a week course or so doing CCQ from 777 to 787.

[alangirvan]

This is probably rumour no. 5634 about the Qantas Group getting 777s. But, wouldn't if be funny if the Qantas Group decided to allow a little bit of controlled competition against Qantas, and take rush delivery of three 777s in December, and then operate them against the V Australia services to US West Coast. Qantas already does let JQ compete on some domestic legs, and the CHC base for JQ was set up to get up Pacific Blue's nose.

If Qantas own brand flying does not lose sales to JQ services to US West Coast - they continue to fly full and continue with their long term contracts with corporations to fill the Business Class section, it would be worth it to give V Australia a hard life.

[MUNT]

I heard leased 330s. Which make a whole lot more sense, I think 777s this late in the game are a bit of a stretch...

[SkySurfin]

I see qantas have been using the 330 AKL-LAX the last few weeks. Is this a permanent fixture? If qantas can get their hands on any 777s they would be silly to refuse. They are a perfect machine for todays current market (long sectors and high fuel prices). Will be interesting to see what sort of compensation they recieve for the 787 delay. I know AirNZ could do with a few spare 777s at the moment.

[alangirvan]

Nobody has bothered to tell us which version of 777s we are guessing about. If Boeing are offering them very quickly, are they somebody else' cancellations. If they are 777-300ERs, those are substantially larger than the 787-8s that JQ thought they were going to have. Would Boeing offer new build 777-200ERs, 10 years after the type entered service? 777-200ERs are Windows 95 planes.

777-300ERs are a bit big to fly around the region - Phuket, HCM, KL. Even for Qantas mainline, the ER is a bit of a waste to HKG and Tokyo, when the non ER 777-300 already could do those sectors (and Qantas could do an engine competition as well.) The 777-300ER seems like overdoing it for lower yield flights between Australia and Southern Europe.

[Poto]

I heard leased 330s. Which make a whole lot more sense, I think 777s this late in the game are a bit of a stretch...

I hope this is not that " Old Technology" crap. 55 Airlines around the world use these machines and boeing has orders for over 1000 Triplers

No wonder boeing are VERY reluctant to even consider a 787-10 version and undermine this market.

Qf has always had the issue of not one particular variant of the Tripler filling enough roles well enough though. But at the right price the economics might add up. Buying just to compete with VB is a hollow argument. Most LA's are full- reducing capacity to the US is not a smart strategy.:ugh:

[Skystar320]

only because they are payload restricted..........

[MUNT]

Poto

This has nothing to do with the 777 technology. This has got to do with the fact that QF only need a gap-filling machine. Both J* and QF have 330s in operation. Aditional numbers require only a few extra staff, and minimal training slots (second sim due August, I believe).

Introducing a new type would need more than 'gap-filling' justification.

[Poto]

Point taken Munt but 330's won't get One star to the US and a significant delay in arrival of 787-9 might prove the Tripler a better option for the Orange future.

[halas]

Unless they are a gift from Air India, Jet Airways, Cathay, Singapore or Emirates, l don't think so....

halas

[Taildragger67]

Skysurfin':

Will be interesting to see what sort of compensation they receive for the 787 delay.

Maybe the compensation runs to a good deal on 10-12 777s (like that hasn't been done before... ) or possibly covering any incremental costs (eg. training, maint) in running a new type?

Boeing have been itching for years to shift some 777s to QF (group). They could probably make production/delivery slots if need be, by ramping up production by an airframe or so a month; God knows the 747 line is at a trickle, and the 787 line now won't be ramping up for a while, freeing up some space and labour. It'd be a good way to make up for the delayed revenue due the delayed 787 deliveries. Also the loss of the 767 tanker contract means the space for that line isn't as crucial now.

I'd suggest there would also be a few carriers with big orders happy to reassess a slot or two as they cope with rising fuel prices and too few drivers (as gets regularly aired on PPRuNe).

Everett certainly isn't the same place it was ten years ago, when they were churning three models of wide-bodies out at a rate of knots.

Actually thinking a bit more about it, a few 777 frames in short order would make good sense if they replaced the 743s. There would also be no shortage of secondary-market takers amongst mid-ranking 777 operators who would like a few more frames but can't swallow the new-build cost - some well-maintained 5-y-o efforts would be perfect. Compensation by way of a leasing package (possibly ACMI if it's a relatively short period) from BAT could be just the ticket.

[Jabawocky]

Iron Bar

I think there is a strong chance of a wind up there.....:=

How good are your sources there mate?

After requesting a walk along the 777 line today (evening there) no J* tails to be seen.

The closest resmbling it was a Candian Maple Leaf, or maybe a UPS unit:rolleyes:.

Now there maybe some coming but it was not on the line tonight!

J:ok:

[Wizofoz]

According to FLIGHT, Boeing are proposing new build 767-300ERs as an interum, as the production line is geared up for the 767 tanker projest that went to EADS instead.

[request deferred]

...and despite the fact that any expenditure on aircraft or leases has to be reported to the Australian Stock Exchange! No no no, not happening.

If you want timely, accurate information about a company like QF you need look no further than asx.com.au

http://www.asx.com.au/asx/markets/PriceResults.jsp?method=get&template=F1001&ASXCodes=qan

Let's try to involve the facts in these discussions :8

[Skystar320]

request deferred - you quite havn't hit the nail on the head with your statement.

You can still actively look / seek and state neg on aircraft without informing ASX ,its until you put pen to paper

[request deferred]

My post was in reference to the claim that a 777 was already in Jetstar colours ; not happening unless reported to Stock Exchange.

I agree that a company can ' look but don't touch ' any time it wishes otherwise deals would never be made.......:)

[Skystar320]

you dont have to report everything to the stock exchange, things have happened before........

Now to point out that Qantas has several operating companies that are not listed on stock - exchange..........

The results can be endless

[tenretni]

So whats the big deal anyway?
Jetstar is or was scheduled to receive the first 15 787's. Right?
So now rumour has it that they are going to be 777's.
Big F....ing deal.

[Skystar320]

So whats the big deal anyway?
Jetstar is or was scheduled to receive the first 15 787's. Right?
So now rumour has it that they are going to be 777's.
Big F....ing deal.

Obvious someone didnt get the bean waxed last night!

[Keg]

My understanding is that a number of years ago QF actually did reserve some slots on the 777 production line and put down some coin for them. I don't know for how many (10-15 springs to mind as a way that QF ordered aircraft four or five years ago) and I don't know when they're due (but a time frame from 2010 doesn't seem unreasonable) and it'd be pretty damned easy to sell them on to someone else should QF decide to not proceed.

Still, the 777 is 'old technology'. We couldn't possibly buy them when we still have the 767s to fly around for the next six or seven years! :ok:

[Best Rate]

I just couldn't help but pull out the popcorn whilst having a gander at this thread and the somewhat hopeful yet unsustained input from (some) gullible posters...

Keep the capital "RU" in PPrune please folks, it's a hoot to observe how quickly the fish are biting around these parts... :D

Having said that, geez we could do with a few of dem Big Balus' Mom... :ok:

BR

[Jabawocky]

Had confirmed last night there are no 777's in the manufacturing schedule for QF or J*. So do not get your hopes up.

There are unidentified orders, as there is for every model, so you could speculate on those, but don't put any money on them.:ok:

Keg, you need to keep them old 767's........what would you drive otherwise???? An A330?:eek:

J:ok:

[Scooter Rassmussin]

The 777s are old RR models boeing has from an operator that does not need them anymore.

[Skystar320]

an operator that doesnt want 777's anymore..... Cho watchya been smokin?>

[Jabawocky]

The 777s are old RR models boeing has from an operator that does not need them anymore.


Ahhhhhhhh ex British Airways :eek:

J:ok:

[Taildragger67]

If there's any truth in what Scooter R. says, then that backs up my theory that 777s may be offered by Boeing Aircraft Trading (BAT) as compensation for the 787 delays. BAT would rather offer airframes than have to shell out actual coin, it keeps those airframes in the air rather than at Victorville (so keeping parked fleet numbers down) and gets the type into QF colours (at last) hopefully with a view (in Boeing's mind) to them loving them and the type sticking by way of a new-build order. I doubt Boeing have completely given up on getting the Rat to take a few for Aust-UK non-stops (different variant, obviously, but it'd be a start).

Jaba,

BA have frequently said how much they love 777s, they've said they'd love to 1:1 replace their 744s for 777s and their older airframes are GE, not RR, so if it's RRs on offer from BAT, they're unlikely to be -236s.

There are no 777s showing on Planemart (http://www.planemart.com/FAA/ListModels.asp?type=Commercial&manufacturer=BOEING); but out of interest in the 707 section (http://www.planemart.com/FAA/Listings.asp?type=Commercial&typeMfr=BOEING&model=707-320C), msn 18808 is up for sale and that is the former VH-EBN 'City of Parramatta'. Hope the old girl doesn't get tin-canned... :{

Likewise there are no 777s listed on Boeing's own availability site (http://active.boeing.com/commercial/am/index.cfm?content=include/reports.cfm) but that's not to say that they list everything...

[alangirvan]

Singapore AL - would they be retiring 777-200ERs with RR, as they take their new 777-300ERs? If Jetstar want planes to fly to Southern Europe before the 787s are available this would be one way to do it. But would JQ want to compete against Singapore, Emirates, Thai, Cathay to Rome with hand me down planes from Singapore?

[Keg]

Bugger competing with everyone else, would you want hand me down SQ 777s full stop! Anecdotal evidence suggests that the term 'discarded' for former SQ aircraft is the correct term! :eek: The advantages of being able to write off your fleet for tax over seven years I guess. It means you don't have to bother maintaining them too well when you've got them.

[alangirvan]

My other guess was that the 777s could be like the 737-800s that QF took from the Boeing production line that had been allocated to American Airlines. AA also has a fleet of RR 777s. If there are any 777s that AA has not taken, and does not want, those could be available to a nice home, going cheap.

[shiftpattern]

A 777 300ER burns 8t an hour vs the 744's 10t an hour. Carries 400 to 440 pax, same as a 744.
J* have a swag of ex 777 drivers from SQ and a couple from EK, so they can certainly crew them. Plus J8 drivers are cheaper than QF mainline ones.
Dunno, but I reckon J* could see the 777. Soon.

[max autobrakes]

That's another one for the trophy room.
How much does he want?
tell 'im he's dreaming!;)

[60 & below]

:bored:
A few months ago Express Freighters Australia a wholly owned Qantas company put to the Qantas board a proposal for 2 777F to replace the 7474F that are operated by Atlas onbehalf of Qantas Freight.
The lease cost blew the proposal out of the water and Atlas was awarded the six year contract. Could this be the 777s that you are talking about?

[Taildragger67]

Alangirvan said:

But would JQ want to compete against Singapore, Emirates, Thai, Cathay to Rome with hand me down planes from Singapore?

Gulf do it with ex-SQ 343s (which were bought off SQ by Boeing as a sweetener for SQ to take 777s - you can still see the SQ 'bird' stamped on the metal bits in the loos).

It's not a question of would they 'want' to - rather would it be cost-effective to.

It comes down to the compensation package - if I were Boeing, I'd be offering 777s on ACMI, or throwing in free pilot training (onto 777 then onto 787) plus op & maint costs over & above whatever the performance benchmark in the 787 contract is. Like I said, it gets the 'frames out of the desert (always a bad look) and gets them into a top client where - who knows? - they might stick. Better that, than have them fill Toulouse's coffers further (and the payments for that would just be a straight bank transfer from Boeing to Airbus and that would :{ our friends in Chicago).

It'd be even sweeter for Boeing if they could get a few 'frames into mainline colours.

[Keg]

A quote of GD himself.

"We need to fly a long way and carry a lot of people. But, given the delays, would it be handy to have the 777s now? Yes, and we could get them, but that will change our fleet."

"I tell you, I wouldn't mind the 777 in the fleet right now. But we haven't got big aircraft problems at the moment because things have slowed down."

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,23785078-23349,00.html?from=public_rss

I suspect it's all too late now but it's interesting how this one just bursts into life every now and then.

(I certainly claim credit for part of that too...I figure if I keep talking about it, perhaps it'll eventually come true! :ok: :} )

[rockarpee]

When Airbus announces the official handover date for the Rats first two 380's, aprox 30 days from arrival, they/QF board will announce the signing up of 20 A350's for the "Group". This is my first rumour so be kind!!!!!!!!!:)

[longreach]

this is far and away the best chance for the 773ER to enter the QF fleet.
I don't think QF likes the payload/range figures on the 350-1000 and the 773ER stacks up pretty well in the end, even though Dixon and co embarrassingly have referred to it as old tech.
Something is happening here.

[Short_Circuit]

There maybe some V-Australia 777 up for grabs very soon?

[alangirvan]

Which 777 would be ideal for Qantas/Jetstar? MEL is about 500 miles further away from LAX/SFO than SYD is, so Qantas got the 747-400ER to do the extra 500miles. The A380 is starting on MEL-LAX because of its range ability. Would the 777-200LR be a better plane for MEL-LAX than the 777-300ER? Reports from overseas are that the 777-200LR is proving itself as a freight carrier. Whereas for BNE-LAX the 777-200LR would be overkill for the distance. The older 777-200ER might be the right size for that market. But Qantas would hardly obtain two units of three different versions of the same type. So, which one would be the best compromise if you are only choosing one?

[Poto]

Whereas for BNE-LAX the 777-200LR would be overkill for the distance. The older 777-200ER might be the right size for that market

744's are mostly full on that route

[jet_mechanic]

From todays Australian:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23853824-23349,00.html

[woftam]

QF will never get those "old technology" B777's.
Same as "there is no money in freight".
CLOWNS !!!!!!! :ugh:

[MUNT]

Assuming the 777 (all models) wasn't/isn't given a proper assesment is ignorant. Incidently there are people whos job it is to asses route/equipment combinations for a range of markets based on many factors. The arrogance of some is astounding.

[Cat on a PC©]

I think you'll find neither 773 or 772 are desirable options for QF on MEL-LAX route. Perhaps if Boeing fits 777s with the GenX or RR engines slated for the (now very much delayed) 787, maybe it would be worth it. I seemed to have read somewhere that Boeing could be considering this very thing. 777-400 anyone?

[RAD_ALT_ALIVE]

TG have just announced that they're getting rid of their 4 A345s (pulling out of the non-stop BKK to North America route/s).

Would JQ be able to benefit from the temporary use of those? Not perfect, sure, but at least big, go far, and most importantly, available now.

[Alex 009]

TG have just announced that they're getting rid of their 4 A345s (pulling out of the non-stop BKK to North America route/s).

Would JQ be able to benefit from the temporary use of those? Not perfect, sure, but at least big, go far, and most importantly, available now.


Also worth mentioning the Airbus 'common flight deck.' Surely it is just another two throttles :ok:

[halas]

I for one would not like to operate a 777 with only 75,000 lbs a side as per the GEnex website. The GE90 is fine except for the odd thrust problem and throwing away the occasional LP blade.

halas

[jet.jackson]

Once The Board Meeting In NYC is concluded and the they have returned home expect an announcement regarding the Triplers.

[404 Titan]

jet.jackson

If it’s new B777’s they want, sorry no slots available until 2014. Boeing have made it very clear that they “WILL NOT” be ramping up production on the Tripler line. There may be some on the second hand market but they will be few and far between as well because of high fuel costs.

[Going Boeing]

404 Titan, don't dismiss jet.jackson's post so easily. The board arrived in NY over the weekend and are meeting all this week. My source says that the biggest decision that they have to make is the B777 offer which is tied in as part of the compensation package that has being negotiated with Boeing for the delay in delivery of the B787's. I understand that there are some B777-300ER's on the production line that have recently been deferred/cancelled by other operators. This would allow early delivery as Qantas is desperate for more capacity (my source indicated that they were most likely going to mainline - not Jetstar).

[argus.moon]

RISING fuel costs and tight credit conditions pose a new dilemma for Qantas directors, who are in New York for a crucial board meeting.
The directors are now in New York for what the airline says is the most important board meeting in years.

Top of the agenda is the fuel crisis, which has caused the carrier's shares to tumble over the past year, halving the value of the business.

Qantas is now worth a little more than $20 billion and has committed to a total fleet replacement program worth about the same amount.

A year ago, before fuel soared to more than $US100 a barrel, the airline's stock peaked at $5.87, valuing it at just more than $40 billion.

Yesterday the stock closed at $3.06, down another 6 or 1.92 per cent.

The falling share price will put Qantas under even more pressure by affecting credit costs at a time when the airline is about to seek finance for a new fleet of fuel-efficient Airbus super jumbos and Boeing Dreamliners.

Ratings agency Moody's yesterday cranked the pressure further by adivising that it had Qantas under review for a possible credit downgrade.

The agency said the airline's third lowest investment grade credit rating of Baa1 could be lowered if it was unable to offset surging jet fuel prices.

"Cost side pressure, and most critically the cost of fuel, have raised the level of financial risk, and Qantas is in the process of implementing rapid cost and revenue-side initiatives to protect its profit margins," said Moody's vice-president Ian Lewis, the agency's lead analyst on Qantas.

He added that Qantas faced significant challenges because the airline was already "weakly positioned within its ratings".

These issues will no doubt influence the decision Qantas directors have to make about yet another new aircraft.

Apart from the A380 and Boeing Dreamliner, the airline has to find a replacement for its 13 ageing 747 Boeing jumbos.

The only option available at present is the Boeing 777-300 ER, (extended range) twin jet, which is reputed to be the most fuel-efficient aircraft flying.

It is understood that one of the reasons for holding this week's board meeting in New York was to hold talks with Boeing president James McNerny who is keen to sell the aircraft to Qantas, a move which could see the airline trade some of the options it holds for Dreamliners in exchange for the 350-seat 777s.

Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon has told both Boeing and Airbus the aircraft to be chosen as the 747 replacement has to carry 350 passengers and fly the Pacific non-stop.

The 777 has all of these atributes

[Alex 009]

GD bite the bullet, swallow your pride and go for the Trippler...

[Going Boeing]

Alex, aren't you an Airbus afficionardo?

[Alex 009]

Normally, but I do like the Triple:ok:

[404 Titan]

Boeing will continue to rely on 'disciplined approach' to 777 production rates

Boeing is coming under, and resisting, intense pressure from airlines to increase production of the 777-300ER, with the first availability for new orders now quoted as 2014.

With more and more carriers parking 747s, pressure is mounting for delivery of 777s, which burn 20% less fuel per passenger.

In November, VP-Sales-Middle East and Africa Martin Bentrott said production was sold out through 2012 with only a few slots available. In just six months, all of the remaining 2012 and all 2013 slots have been snapped up. Boeing has announced sales of 36 777s this year with a significant number of firm commitments yet to be signed.

The company said it is "experiencing unprecedented demand for its commercial airliners and is constantly reviewing the complex process of matching demand with the physical and economic constraints of the production system." Currently it is producing 777s at a rate of 6.6 per month based on 33 deliveries through May 30.

While pleased with that demand, the manufacturer added, "In the past, Boeing, its employees, suppliers and its customers suffered the effects of a breakdown of the production process resulting from efforts to increase production too rapidly. Boeing is determined to produce efficiently through the market cycles going forward. This will allow us to maintain relatively stable employment levels, maintain high levels of quality and keep the residual values of airplanes high to protect our customers' investment in our products."

It continued, "This effort may result in us not being able to meet all customers' requirements in the timeframe they prefer. Ultimately, though, Boeing believes that a disciplined approach to managing production rates is in the best interests of all parties involved."

The company did not respond to a question about the effect of the 787 delay - up to 24 months in some cases - on demand for 777s as replacements for shortfalls in capacity.

Airlines also are waiting for Boeing's response to the A350-1000, which targets the lower end of the 777-300ER market. It stated that it has been waiting for Airbus to define the exact performance of the A350-1000. Last week Airbus briefed customers in Madrid and advised that the maximum takeoff weight of the -1000 is to climb by 2 tons, which may affect some range performance targets.



Wires

argus.moon

The B777 and the B787 aren't assembled on the same line so QF trading some B787 slots won't free up slots on the B777 production line. They are the facts. Sorry to spoil your day and a good rumour.:ooh:

[jet.jackson]

One doesn't necessarily refute the other.
Aircraft on the line have had their orders cancelled.
Qantas may pick up those aircraft that are no longer required by another carrier.
Part of a compensation package for late delivery

[404 Titan]

jet.jackson
Aircraft on the line have had their orders cancelled.
That’s news to me. Got a link to which airlines have cancelled B777 orders?

[blow.n.gasket]

There wouldn't be some sort of a horse trade with American airlines in the pipeline would there?:ok:

[B772]

404 Titan. There is some brand new B777-300ER availability in the near future, not from Boeing but a leasing company.

[Taildragger67]

Boeing's website (http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/index.cfm?content=displaystandardreport.cfm&RequestTimeout=500&optReportType=AnnOrd&pageid=m15521) suggests about 10 777s have been cancelled in recent years. Combine this with a few deferrals and you could squeeze in a few extra.

One suggests that with the recent fuel price rises, some carriers would be happy to defer (not cancel) any deliveries which are purely for capacity increase (as opposed to replacing another, more fuel-guzzling type) until the dust settles. Similarly, these boards were very recently awash with stories of some carriers parking aircraft due lack of crews - if that's still the case, then they would be deferral candidates until that situation gets sorted out. A carrier with 15/20/25/30 777s already in service might be happy to put 5 or so they have on order, back from 2012/3 delivery to 2014/5. And manufacturers would bend over backwards to 'defer' rather than 'cancel' as canx'es look bad for their stats; a deferral (or slot trade) allows them to then put a positive spin on it when a 'new' order is forthcoming (especially from a new operator of the type).

Don't forget also that some slots are held by lessors 'on spec' - that is, ordered by the lessor before they have placed the aircraft with a carrier. Hence a three-way could be done between Boeing, the lessor and the carrier (eg. lessor places frame with carrier and Boeing covers at least part of the lease cost as part of the compensation package).

And it would not take much to ramp-up from 6.5 per month to 8 or so. Lack of orders on the 767 line (whilst using different tooling) would at least free up some labour and floor space for a slight increase in 777 production. 404 Titan - I seem to recall from my visit to the Everett floor that 767 and 777 production is on the same line (but that was 5 years ago).

I suspect the 'discipline' that Boeing is talking about, is resisting ramping up from 6.5 to 10 or so. Recall 10-15 years ago when 747-400 production was ramped up to double figures, there were all sorts of quality control issues; then industrial problems when Boeing sought to lay off workers as things slowed down. Then they got really scarred by a month-long strike a few years ago. I suspect they are keen to avoid that sort of cost (both monetarily and to reputation) again and so would rather see a few orders go east rather than make promises they cannot ultimately deliver upon.

[Bad Hat Harry]

"News To Me"
So if you.... MR Titan..... dont know about something it cant possibly be true.
Pull your head out of your sphincter and attempt to acccommodate another point of view that you may not know about....O omnipotent one.

[blackguard]

You will find someone has already posted the same article.
Try and keep up.

[404 Titan]

Bad Hat Harry

I think if you read my post again with a cool head you will realise it was a question. That’s what “?” was for at the end of the last sentence.:rolleyes:

And yes your apology is accepted.:}

[Going Boeing]

404 Titan

The B777 and the B787 aren't assembled on the same line so QF trading some B787 slots won't free up slots on the B777 production line. They are the facts. Sorry to spoil your day and a good rumour.

I've re-read you posts and come to the same conclusion as Bad Hat Harry, in that you appear to be unable to accept that there is something happening which is contrary to your knowledge of Boeing production lines.

The swapping of B787 slots for B777's was simply speculation by a journalist - nothing credible there. I would think that Qantas would keep every slot on the B787 production line (irrespective of the B777 decision) because they want to replace all widebody aircraft (except A380 of course) with these very efficient aircraft.

My source is very well placed and his opinion is that the B777 order is virtually assured.

[Bad Hat Harry]

Firstly an apology was not offered.
Secondly every post you make only reinforces the perception that you are an arrogant tosser

[ACMS]

That's funny I thought BA were being offered the 777 in compensation for the late 787?

There can't be that many 777's available to give both BA and QF some.

Maybe I should suggest to my bosses at CX we try to get more 777's too?
After all we are an existing 777-300ER lover and should get first rights to any extras. Not like you late comers !!!!:ok:

[Forward CofG]

If the 777 order is assured, when do Jet* get them?

[slim]

My source tells me that there are two very senior Qantas training Captains currently in the U.S. undertaking 777 endorsement training. Keg, any extra info? One is apparently J.B. from the 737 fleet?

[Wod]

Naive question.

Would a 777 endorsement fast track you to the 787?

Just a thought.

[Keg]

Slim. Haven't heard anything. I'm not in there until next week but I'll ask around when I am.

[blueloo]

A training person with the initials JB ? is he the one who claims the 737-400 and 300 sims are exact working replicas of the aeroplane, and if you think otherwise, its because you havent been trained in simulator fidelity?

[404 Titan]

Going Boeing

I have no problem in accepting the fact QF may be in the market for B777. If the rumour is true, great. I just don’t take a rumour as fact until I have seen the hard evidence. I haven’t seen any yet but if/when I do I will change my opinion. The fact at the moment is that QF is probably one of the airlines that are pressuring Boeing to increase the production rate of the B777 line and Boeing have publically stated that they won’t be. As someone else has pointed out there are a few ILFC B777 that haven’t yet been placed. Maybe QF can pressure Boeing into paying for the leases for these spare aircraft. No doubt these aircraft, if they exist (I have no idea if they do), would be going for a premium rate.:)

Bad Hat Harry

Oh boy. I have a bit of a light hearted debate here and you go flying off the handle. Look who the tosser is now. People who resort to these kinds of personal attacks usually are incapable of an intelligent debate in the first place.:yuk::*

[Taildragger67]

ACMS,

Qantas ordered their 787s before BA, hence it's probably reasonable to assume that Qantas would get priority in the 777-as-compo pecking order (especially as QF is the biggest Dreamliner customer to date). If they've been offered to BA, I suggest it's safe to assume that Jim's already been chatting to Geoff.

And the conspiracy theorist in me says that as Boeing has become increasingly aware of problems on the 787 line, they have kept a few places on the 777 line up their corporate sleeve as a contingency. So we should not be too surprised to see some rabbits being pulled from hats.

[rammel]

Dixon has said recently, that in hind sight it would be good to have the 777 in the fleet. If they had ordered them 5 years ago, they wouldn't be left scrathing their heads now about how to replace the 747-400's which burn more fuel than the 777. Of course the 777 doesn't carry the same number of pax, but it is pretty close to what QF use on their Pacific config 747-400's.

To me the whole will we/won't we on the B777 at QF is short term management at it's finest. Not only does the 777 has the capacity to cover existing routes, but over the last 5 years we could have expanded the QF network again. A lot of other airlines MH, TG, SQ and CX all operate 3 or 4 times a week to ports QF says are impossible to make money on with this type of frequency. These airlines all use 777's on these routes, and they have been for years. Either these airlines like to bleed cash, or a 777 contributes to making the economies of these routes sustainable.

[woftam]

Quote
"Dixon has said recently, that in hind sight it would be good to have the 777 in the fleet."
Stevie Wonder could have seen that 5 years ago. Why couldn't the "Brain Surgeons" running this outfit? :ugh:

[speedbirdhouse]

Quote-
"Why couldn't the "Brain Surgeons" running this outfit?"

------------------

Why would the lowlife who currently run this once proud airline care what shape it is in, 5 years out ??

They are only here for the short term and their bonuses are paid annually.:yuk::yuk::yuk:

[drshmoo]

speed birdhouse - spot on:ok:
Its prob even more short term than that

404 titan and Bad Hat Harry
saucer of milk for table two
http://www.pusscats.com/Cat_Fight.jpg

[Taildragger67]

Drshmoo,

Given Teflon Geoff is on the way out (though not as quick as some would like), you're right - his horizon is only as far as his next bonus or the severance payout.

And the competition to take over as Top Sea-nut means that all of the second layer are trying to make their numbers look as good as possible, therefore cutting everything that can't run faster than them. You could rename the puddy tats in that shot 'Greggsie' and 'Borgho' in that respect (with the winner to take on Al, the dreaded ginger tom from south of the border).

So it ain't going to improve in the short term.

Now one thing Boeing would really like to see would be the Rat taking some 747-8s as part of the compensation package...

[cama7]

Speaking of rumours, any ideas?

A planned Australian start-up, as yet unnamed, is preparing to commence passenger and cargo services in Nov-08, using E-170, E-190, ATR-72 and A300F aircraft, as revealed exclusively on peanuts.aero.

The airline, currently based in Melbourne, will launch service with four E-190s, followed by one E-170, and plans an extensive network covering Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Canberra, Adelaide, Hobart and the Gold Coast. While slot allocation has been granted at all destinations, the airline will progressively launch its network, with an initial focus on Sydney, Gold Coast and Melbourne.

The airline stated it plans to deliver a standard of domestic air travel “never experienced before in Australia. And all this on a low fare basis, including complimentary meals and drinks”. The “value for money” , “service-based” approach will see the airline position itself between Qantas and Virgin Blue in the domestic market.

The start-up was registered on 10-Oct-06 as an Australian company, and has investment partners in Germany.

As previously revealed by peanuts.aero, Lion Air, Indonesia’s most successful new entrant airline, plans to commence Australian operations later this year using a six aircraft fleet of extended range B737-900ERs. Lion will hold 49% of the new company, which is to be 51% owned by Australian charter operator, SkyAirWorld.

Initially, Lion Air Australia is looking at international routes, to Indonesia and Southeast Asia, and is considering operating "some" domestic routes, according to SkyAirWorld CEO, David Charlton.

SkyAirWorld was the first operator in Australia to introduce the Embraer-170 jet last year.

[cama7]

Any thoughts?

A planned Australian start-up, as yet unnamed, is preparing to commence passenger and cargo services in Nov-08, using E-170, E-190, ATR-72 and A300F aircraft, as revealed exclusively on peanuts.aero.

The airline, currently based in Melbourne, will launch service with four E-190s, followed by one E-170, and plans an extensive network covering Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Canberra, Adelaide, Hobart and the Gold Coast. While slot allocation has been granted at all destinations, the airline will progressively launch its network, with an initial focus on Sydney, Gold Coast and Melbourne.

The airline stated it plans to deliver a standard of domestic air travel “never experienced before in Australia. And all this on a low fare basis, including complimentary meals and drinks”. The “value for money” , “service-based” approach will see the airline position itself between Qantas and Virgin Blue in the domestic market.

The start-up was registered on 10-Oct-06 as an Australian company, and has investment partners in Germany.

As previously revealed by peanuts.aero, Lion Air, Indonesia’s most successful new entrant airline, plans to commence Australian operations later this year using a six aircraft fleet of extended range B737-900ERs. Lion will hold 49% of the new company, which is to be 51% owned by Australian charter operator, SkyAirWorld.

Initially, Lion Air Australia is looking at international routes, to Indonesia and Southeast Asia, and is considering operating "some" domestic routes, according to SkyAirWorld CEO, David Charlton.

SkyAirWorld was the first operator in Australia to introduce the Embraer-170 jet last year.

[Going Boeing]

Forward CofG
If the 777 order is assured, when do Jet* get them?

Great stirring but re-read post #124. :D

Wod
Would a 777 endorsement fast track you to the 787?

Yes, Boeing is designing the B787 flightdeck to be a seamless transition for B777 rated pilots despite the fact that the systems will be significantly different (ie electric). The way that a Boeing salesman explained it to me indicated that they hope to get the FAA, JAA, etc to agree to a single type rating ie more than just CCQ. :ok:

[Iron Bar]

JB has been out of office for the last week or so. . . . . . .

[Knurled Knob]

as per the news/media
they're all in a big pow wow (crisis meeting) in New York this week

[slim]

Different JB Knurled Knob. The one I'm talking about is involved in 737 training management. I think you're refering to the much loftier JB who has his eyes on Dixon's job.

[Iron Bar]

Ummmmm yes skinny man. That would be the 73 training manager???? The same one to whom I refer.

[slim]

Sorry Iron, when you mentioned New York I thought you meant the executive JB. Not sure what the 737 training manager would be doing at a board meeting???

[Iron Bar]

I'm hoping he's in Seattle doing a 777 endosement!!!!:ok: But I think most likely taking delivery of a new 800.

[flybull]

Reportedly he is in KL.

Sorry.

[Iron Bar]

The plot thickens . . . .

[Short_Circuit]

From ATW Online
Wednesday June 18, 2008
Qantas's interest in the 777-300ER as a partial replacement for its 747-400 fleet is growing, Australian media are reporting. QF has 20 A380s on order for key routes such as Los Angeles and London Heathrow, but flights to destinations such as Tokyo Narita, San Francisco, Johannesburg and Frankfurt will not justify the A380, at least initially. CEO Geoff Dixon last week acknowledged to media that he would like the 777-300ER "right now" in order to combat fuel prices.
Qantas has come close on a number of occasions to ordering the 777, first the -200ER in the late 1990s and more recently the -200LR. Now the -300ER is flavor of the month. It has been searching the lease market for some time but the price for -300ERs has soared recently while availability has contracted. Boeing is under pressure to up the production rate from the current seven a month and the delay in the 787--for which QF is the largest airline customer--is adding to that pressure. It currently holds options on 40 787s and observers are suggesting it may convert up to 20 of those to 777-300ERs.

[QF22]

VH-TJU left KL on wed or Thur maybe that explains it ? ? ?

As for B777-300ER QF mis-management at its best !

SIA have 70+ 777s ! QF have clapped out 744s n 767s.

[speedbirdhouse]

QF22,

yes, never a decision made by QF senior management that doesn't have their own yearly bonuses as the overriding concern.

777s should have been bought 10 years ago.

Hindsight?

Bullsh!t.

Blind Freddy could see it.:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Every single penny pinching cluster f#@k these clowns are responsible for comes back to bite them tenfold on the arse.


The ONLY ones held accountable for anything in this company are the operation staff who keep it running.

How were management described on one of the Lame's threads????

Assclowns.

Perfect. :D:D:D

[breakfastburrito]

Every single penny pinching cluster f#@k these clowns are responsible for comes back to bite them tenfold on the arse.I'll just correct that for you:
Every single penny pinching cluster f#@k these clowns are responsible for comes back to bite shareholders/passengers/staff tenfold on the arse."them" on the other hand ride off into the sunset, saddlebags weighed down with booty.

[QF22]

Yep that's why i left.

Hopefully the 787 when it finally arrives will be a good bird, otherwise QF is in deep s#*t.

A big broom thru QF n QE management would also help.

[zlin77]

Jet Airways India have two near new 777-300ER's for lease due to surplus capacity at the moment.

[speedbirdhouse]

Breakfastburrito,

you are of course entirely correct.

[seneca208]

Air New Zealand are replacing there 744s with 77Ws, so why not Qantas do the same?? Surely with rising fuel costs its a given!

[Green.Dog]

Availability of these birds is a little limited at present.
Any that are or become available are attracting a premium price
Dixon would rather buy a clapped out airbus for $X than buy a tripler for $1.5X

[captaintunedog777]

I cannot understand why Qantas doesn't get u clowns to run the company. You guys have incredible insight and knowledge.

[Reeltime]

The reason for that tunedog, is that the company is being run by clowns like you!

[Taildragger67]

LONDON (Thomson Financial) - Airbus and Boeing Co are in almost daily talks
with airlines seeking to cancel or defer deliveries, the Wall Street Journal
quoted unnamed officials at the planemakers as saying, adding that up to a third of new orders could be shelved.

Steven Udvar-Hazy, chairman of aircraft-leasing giant International Lease
Finance Corp, told the newspaper he believes 25 to 30 percent of their combined order books could be subject to what he called the "flake-out factor" if oil prices continue their sharp rise.

The rival manufacturing giants have collected orders for almost 7,000 jets.

For now, both say they are sold out for much of the next three years and are
continuing with plans to raise production rates to meet demand.

But large-scale cancellations and deferrals could amount to tens of billions
of dollars and affect suppliers of engines and other parts in addition to the
jet makers, the newspaper noted.

[email protected]
jms

[c100driver]

I think you missed the detail of the article which mentioned that they were mainly all narrow body aircraft that stand to be cancelled or delayed.

B772ER or B773ER are still very hard to come by and attract very high lease premium.

[Going Boeing]

The Boeing website shows 10 B777's have been ordered by unidentified customer(s). Does anyone know who has ordered these aircraft?

[alangirvan]

If anyone knew who had ordered them, they would not be unidentified.

As a guess, I have read on some other forums that Jet Airways (India) has some long range routes that are seriously under performing. They have a big order for 777-300ERs, and I wonder if these might be the planes that Boeing are offering to Qantas and BA.

[max autobrakes]

I'm sure we'll hear soon enough one way or the other after the NY board meeting.

[Going Boeing]

Alan, I posed that question because often an employee has inside information that the airline and Boeing have not officially made public.

Max, the board meeting was more than a week ago and there has been no decision passed down to the departments that would be directly involved. It appears that the decision may have been deferred which seems strange considering how capacity constrained QF are.

[404 Titan]

In which I rest my case. Unless Boeing has secured some leases for QF it's not going to happen.

[alangirvan]

Would it be fair to say that BA and QF have been offered the same batch of 777-300s, and from reading the BA thread on pprune, it looks as though BA is bit closer to going ahead.

[7378FE]

V Australia could lease some of their 773's to QF with Tech crew:ok:

[maggotdriver]

They're a coming boys, they're a coming!:cool:

[Mstr Caution]

Heard a rumour (quite appropriate for pprune) that half dozen or so on the way by years end! oh yeah, mainline ops too. Short of capacity with high oil prices, go figure!
MC:8

[Taildragger67]

That's less than 6 months away. I'm skeptical of such a number joining within such a short time frame. Unless it was a complete ACMI package, it's fair to ask how anyone would go from go-to-whoa getting a new type integrated - training techies and CC, maint, deciding configs & interiors... I think there's rather more than could be done in less than 6 months. Manufacturing lead times for things other than the airframes, if nothing else, would seem to be too tight.

One or two chartered airframes can happen and has been done before, but actually bringing 6 of a new type into the fleet... six months is awfully quick. I hope we do see long thin Rats but 6 months...

OK, let's throw it open - could it be done? How long after order did the 330s turn up?

Farnborough kicks off on Monday week (14th) - I guess we could hear something then (if it is going to happen).

[Dropt McGutz]

They'll probably be wet leased.

[Wingspar]

Still waiting for something to come out of "the most important board meeting in years"!

[mrpaxing]

BA has signed up for spare 777 from boeing. waiting for the announcmement

[Going Boeing]

Hey maggotdriver, do you have any more details?

[Sunfish]

Rumour is that AA have cancelled about ten 777-300 slots and QF and BA are in contention for some of them (787 compensation - seen that type of thing before). QF on a one year ramp up to get some (or all of them ), and it isn't going to be deeply pre planned.

That's all I know of the rumour. But if it's true, it's going to be messy, and staff are going to have to pull together to make it happen........Which is difficult under the current CEO.

[Skystar320]

Rumour has it QF are interested in purchasing 4 x 777-200's from an Asian carrier

[2dotsright]

I heard that J* have a bunch of B777 rated pilots working there including 'check and trng' and management experience on type
Seems that if QF got hold of some 777's on short notice that J* could have them fired up and crewed in record time. Just a thought but makes sense doesn't it.

[MUNT]

Rumour has it QF are interested in purchasing 4 x 777-200's from an Asian carrier

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/07/03/225025/china-southern-to-phase-out-777-200s.html

Interesting, though 200s aren't really a suitable 400 replacement...

[Taildragger67]

mrpaxing,

Again, next Monday morning would be the logical time to hear something like that.

But this is aviation so logic plays no part...

MUNT,

Might be if you're looking to trim capacity growth (especially if they're available PDQ). Better to park a fully-amortized, nearly 20-year-old 744 which, with current fares, you'd only get 80% full, and put a 10-year-old twin (if -ER) on the same runs at nearer 100% loads. You could put the same number of premium seats in the 772ER as with the 744 and just drop the numbers in Cattle; suddenly you're almost profitable again.

[longreach]

Can't be right as AA don't have or have never had any 777-300 slots. They are a 772 operator only.

[gas path]

Rumour has it QF are interested in purchasing 4 x 777-200's from an Asian carrier
Those China Southern A/C are 'A' market airframes therefore no CWT. That limits their range somewhat. So as already stated not an ideal 744 replacement:8

hope you don't mind a northern hemisphere type butting in!

[Skystar320]

No I dont mind, but a normal 200 can be converted to a 200ER without much doing? I.e needs uprated engines / landing gear / internal fuel tanks / possible mod to the FMC but a easy patch should do the trick and get cert by Boeing

Easy way to get 777's in the fleet, by buying second hand aircraft and jump the que while waiting for new ones?

Secondly, how many 743's were operating domestic? Oooops, have I spilt the beans, bugger!

[Offchocks]

"Those China Southern A/C are 'A' market airframes therefore no CWT. That limits their range somewhat. So as already stated not an ideal 744 replacement."

Actually they would be a perfect replacement for the old classics on the MEL-PER-SYD run...........however I can't see QF getting 777s.

[Skystar320]

ahh but how long is a piece of string these days?

[MUNT]

QF has a 772a in the form of the a333.

The 330 is perfect for perth, new aircraft, international product and a capacity reduction.

The 777 would be most useful in replacing the older 400s on the longer sectors, i.e. FRA and JNB. But 200s, particularly As, wouldn't really be a suitable alternative. Perhaps the 200ER or LR at off-peak periods. Loads for the moment are in excess of a 200s capacity. 300s on the other hand, are a different story altogether. Then again, i'm not paid to know...

[Skystar320]

obvious you havn't flew in the A330 then....... Give me a 777

[Taildragger67]

Munt,

Mate I think you misread me; I was talking about taking on 772ERs to do current 744 runs. I would agree that non-ER 772s wouldn't have the range to take on long 744 runs.

Hence BA are running 772ERs to Sydney.

I'm not sure the 333 has the legs of a 772ER, does it? I agree it's a fine aircraft for - let's call them 'long mid-range' - runs.

I'm thinking of something you could put on (say) Brissy-LAX and fill running 2 donks, rather than something running 75-80% with 4 donks; I agree that it is pretty well sized for runs out of middle-sized markets (eg. Perth, Brisbane, Adelaide) - that point-to-point stuff is what it was made for, after all. The 772ER-as-744-killer comes into its own where you do not need 380-400 seats on a long run but could reliably fill 300-350.

[SkyScanner]

If I were Borghetti I would use the 777s on Syd - Pek, Akl - Lax and the soon to be announced Pvg-Lhr

The spare 744 used on a daily Bne - Hkg connecting to the soon be announced Frankfurt

The spare 330s can then be used to increase the Mel - Hkg services.

With the spare 744ers Sydney - Beunos Aeris and Daily Joburg.

[Taildragger67]

Actually that's a point - could 777s (or any twin) do direct Sydney - Jo'burg and Buenos Aires? Don't those tracks swing a bit far south for ETOPS?

[noip]

Syd-Joburg in a twin ..... I'd be very surprised if they could - at least not on the tracks the 744 flies. Probably the same for EZE as well. As an example, you pass about 1800 nm S of Perth flying Westbound, and go up to 64S (some may have flown further South) and over the Polar ice pack. I've seen Heard Island several times (and that is about 58S).

You are a very long way from anywhere.

I'm sure that an ETOPS track exists, but I'd guess it would severely impact the payload, given prevailing winds and weather requirements etc in JNB. Almost certainly, a service via Perth would be a better alternative for a twin.

Rgds

N

[denabol]

I'm going to be a party pooper here, but third hand via a person who doesn't work for Qantas the board refused funding for a package involving 777s. Says there is a big panic going on over the existing new orders. Methinks a big panic over how to keep the existing fleet flying would be the go, but its a rumor and this is a rumor board.

[Bad Hat Harry]

Too many aircraft?
Not enough aircraft?
The wrong type of aircraft?
Can you elaborate.....?

[denabol]

My take on the info is that with $36 billion worth or whatever the figure is on order already Leigh Clifford freeked and read the riot act. Sounds like the steep learning curve for the mining industry bovver boy is underway, but the lesson on why we need new jets really urgently hasn't been delivered, or listened to. I wonder if he also kyboshed the earlier claim by Dixon that he was getting six new A330s.

Virgin Blue is suffering for the same reasons. It is run by a major shareholder that doesn't want to be there, but has its arse on fire because the rest of the trucking, shipping, wharfing business is also seriously impacted by high fuel, something the morons who get quoted in the media don't seem to have cottoned on to.

[Skystar320]

Bad Hat, don't edge him on........

[Keg]

This is becoming the rumour that will never die. It just came back around again. This time one of the contracts people for Boeing has congratulated a management pilot on the contract just finalised for 15 777s.

Standard disclaimers about sources and seeing aircraft pushing back from the terminal on first revenue service apply.

[Skystar320]

what happened to the townsville refueler?

[Going Boeing]

If there is some substance to the rumour that Keg posted, then my long term conclusion is that Boeing has offered a very good deal to provide an interim capacity until Boeing makes the B787-10 available. This would stop Qantas buying the A350XWB while solving Qantas' short term capacity problems. As Boeing is designing the B787 flight deck to be a seamless transition for B777 rated pilots, it is possible for CASA to approve a dual B777/B787 endorsement for the duration of both types remaining in QF service. It certainly would be welcomed by mainline pilots. :D

[Transition Layer]

Yet another aircraft type to use one of your precious 2/3/4 TTRs (or whatever they're bloody called!!!) :yuk:

[Capt Kremin]

Apparently there will be some sort of announcement in the next day or so. QF is already trying to get 777 sim time from some of our northern neighbours.
15 huh? Didn't Joyce say that the first 15 787's were going to Jetstar? Watch this space I guess.

[Jabawocky]

Unless GE Capital are supplying them with some of the 19 x 300ER's in a 3 class config they have on order and not designated to a customer, it is a bit hard to come up with 15 units.

Disclaimer: Data as of yesterday.

Don't ask how I know....:suspect:

Of course things change quickly so lets see how Keg is going with the inside news from QF.

J:ok:

[Mstr Caution]

A certain QF management pilot was telling the troops a week or so ago that the 777's were back on the horizon.

MC:8

[woftam]

Maybe now that Mr."B777's are old technology" is finally leaving some common sense will prevail? (even if it IS years too late!!!) :ugh:

[Hugh Mungus]

Geeeeeeee Zussssssss ! take your hands off it all you 777 Whisperers! You will go Blind ! and it makes hair grow on the palms of your hand !:yuk:

[Alien Role]

and the Townsville refueler, from what I hear (third hand of course), has been paid off by certain parties to keep his inside knowledge "mum" !!!

[Jed Clampett]

Now this is starting to get interesting!

ATW Daily News (http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=13834)

[Jabawocky]

Gooday Ted

Between now and Feb 2011 there are no deliveries for ILFC that are available.

GE Capital are the only ones with airframes that are not designated to a carrier/config and colours.

They do have 19 300ER's on order with 3 class config.

J

[Taildragger67]

and from lessors such as ILFC

"such as", not 'only'. So that net could include GECAS, etc.

[Jabawocky]

So what is your point Taildragger?

I too can read that and understand it, however I thought that given the report should have said "such as GECAS" instead, as it appears they are the only ones with capacity to supply, I would help clear it up a little.

If you were GECAS you would be expecting to make a nice profit from those orders!

J

[Skystar320]

Taildragger - I cant understand your point made

[Short_Circuit]

Qantas moves towards Boeing 777-300ER order
Geoffrey Thomas | August 29, 2008
The Australian News Paper

QANTAS is understood to be moving towards an order for Boeing's 365-seat 777-300ER, as the US manufacturer pulls out all stops to thwart an order for the rival A350-1000.
The Australian understands that the order, if ratified by the airline's board, would be for 15 aircraft with deliveries as early as 2011.
Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon yesterday confirmed the airline's interest in the 777-300ER.
Qantas has been pressing Boeing for some time for improvements to the 777-300ER and, according to Emirates president Tim Clark, Boeing has a package in hand.


And the penny drops for Geoff, albeit 5 years too late! :ugh:

[mrpaxing]

put out to pasture. he is only aloud to speak on certain subjects and with prior approval of LC. not only will QF get the 777's there are also other major initiatives in the pipeline. the big move will come when GD leaves in november. :eek:

[Keg]

....there are also other major initiatives in the pipeline.

You can do better than that mrpaxing. This is a rumour network after all! :ok: :}

[Skystar320]

apparently they are looking to a controling stake in a US carrier

:oh::oh::oh::oh::oh::oh:

[B772]

Skystar 320. The US market is possibly the most regulated in the World, and extends to the ownership structure.

A number of years ago United requested and were granted pure domestic traffic rights in Aust and a number of passengers were carried before QF complained about the lack of reciprical rights. United then ceased carrying pure domestic traffic.

[Taildragger67]

Jaba and S320,

My point was that it doesn't have to be ILFC.

IIRC (can't be a'ed going back over the posts), the article mentioned the possibility of 'protected' slots and being able to get some 'frames from a lessor "such as" ILFC. Jaba then said that ILFC don't have any unallocated in that time frame, but GE do. So I simply pointed out that the article said "such as" ILFC.

I'm not point-scoring, just saying that it could be any lessor. I do agree 100% that it would've been clearer if GECAS had got the mention and I do wonder if the ILFC mention was therefore deliberate. And I agree that GECAS would want appropriate coin to supply the airframes but maybe that's what Boeing has to do by way of compensation, to stop QF going for A350s.

Also, though, I suspect that Boeing would move H&E to get QF into the Tripler and would find some slots, eg. by upping production by a touch or finding some cash-strapped carrier(s) willing to defer deliveries. None come straight to mind but I'm sure there are some out there.

[Frank Burden]

I have given Qantas buying into a US airline some thought. Maybe they could form the association of ancient aircraft operators.

I have been on four Qantas domestic flights recently with one flight being a B767 older than Moses. Two flights with delays of more than an hour and three with IFE issues. The late departure about two weeks ago meant getting away after 6pm and arrival at 8pm. The 'snack' would have cost about $0.20 each. About 10 small pretzels, 15 rice snack bits, and a cookie of unknown origin about the size of a 20 cent piece but much thinner. All so tantalislingly tasty with everyone on the flight running for the food concessions on arrival.

Any truth in the rumour that Qantas is diversifying into food concession stalls adjacent to its gates?

[mrpaxing]

a rather large challenge in the making. one can imagine running the regulatory gauntlet in trying to merge BA/QF/AA :oh:

[excellr8]

What, so boeing will put a bigger TV screen in the cockpit with a couple of minor airframe mod's and then we have a " new generation " aircraft. That's good cause we don't want old technology. The amount of face saving is on this one will be massive, never mind about the true cost of delaying this inevitable decision, meanwhile the market still believes this management team is the bee's knee's.

Hopefully Clifford over time can restore some true oversight on the Q business.

[DUXNUTZ]

Qantas evaluating Boeing 777-300ER (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/09/01/315326/qantas-evaluating-boeing-777-300er.html)

[Skystar320]

There is a huge thread on this somewhere.......

[packrat]

Qantas 777 and other rumours...this forum ...30th August

[aardvark144]

I see the rumours once again have died in the ar*e. Any further news? When is the next board meeting?

[Wingspar]

Not to be specific but,

any time soon...

in the fullness of time...

at the appropriate juncture in time...

the cake has almost baked on this one...


but hopefully the sun hasn't set with this rumour!

[Skystar320]

I heard they ordered a mixture of A340-300 & -600's? :ok::ok::ok:

[denabol]

So far today ILFC has been nationalised by the US Government as part of the AIG bailout, Macquarie Bank is down to around $28, Babcrook and Bloody Crook were at 75 cents and in free fall, and oil last time I looked was dropping but not as quickly as passenger numbers. QAN down 18 cents and VBA down at least 5 cents.

Somehow it could be a big risky ask, try saying that slowly, for a board to vote to buy lunch. Qantas needed those jets badly. Needed. I don't have the gift of seeing the future so clearly I can make a killing on the ASX but I know a really bad storm when I see one coming.

[Sunstar320]

So is there a DATE when they are going to tell us when and what??

Are we talking days or years here?

[an3_bolt]

I heard they ordered a mixture of A340-300 & -600's?

.....and the rumour I heard was you could not even give away a 340-600 .... must be perfect for QF then!!!!!:ugh:

[SCHAIRBUS]

Are they still making 340s?
What ever they buy they will have to be very reliable as QF has run out of engineers.
Another very strong rumour is that QF engineering management is bracing it's self for some big changes and blood letting.
Let the games begin!

[B772]

Skystar 320. The CFM56 powered A340-300 is no longer in production. Airbus has signaled the demise of the A340-500/600 saying production will cease when production facilities for the A350 is required.

[bdflight]

Hi GoingBoeing, thank you for coming to this morning's ceremony. It was great to see so many Qantas people and their familes there. I felt very proud being surrounded by so many hardworking people and a great aircraft. I am sure we will welcome the 787 in the same way. As for the 777s, we are evaluating them along with other aircraft types. I expect we will make a decision some time in the next 12 months.

-John Borghetti

Saw this on the live blog thing qantas had this afternoon, so still nothing it seems.

any one know what the other types could be?

the whole blogs here Qantas Media Room (http://www.qantasmedia.com.au/qforum/article/view_topic/1)

[Skystar320]

good god, It was a scarcastic remark

[lowerlobe]

Qantas are experts in prevaricating especially when it comes to aircraft purchases.
Reports today of the company talking with airbus about more 380's.....or could just be the usual PR spin pushing a new toy.

Wingspar....You must be a fan of 'Yes Prime Minister'...Brilliantly funny shows.

Skystar320.....What is a scarcastic remark?...Does it mean that you think buying an airbus is a scary thought or that you were just caught out?

[Skystar320]

hmmm lowerlobe, the title is "Merged: QF 777s and other rumours" nothing hasn't been ruled out, its just a hot load of rumours floating around at the moment,

You never know they might be looking at Airbus?


:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[lowerlobe]

I'm sorry Skystar320 but my post must have been too subtle and you obviously missed the point....again....check the spelling and definition....
sarcastic |särˈkastik|
adjective
marked by or given to using irony in order to mock or convey contempt : sarcastic comments on their failures | she's witty and sarcastic.
As far as aircraft purchases are concerned the company is a master at playing one aircraft manufacturer against the other.I'm surprised that Dixon has not used the ploy and suggested that they are looking at Soviet aircraft....

I mean they are probably very cheap and the Russkies would throw in a few tanker loads of cheap fuel to seal the deal...

[Skystar320]

you forgot the vodka!

[FFRATS]

Quote -aardvark144
"see the rumours once again have died in the ar*e. Any further news? When is the next board meeting?"

Rumors could have died like the EBA8. May be a bit off 'bait' gone off or just to much A380 hype going on.
During the company briefings before the EBA vote the B777 was a favourite "don't quote me but" line in there to give hope to wanabe B777 driver's.

FFRATS