Shortage of controllers

[slowclimber]

I keep seeing quotes from people in positions of authority (GATCO president, various NATS managers, aviation journalists ec.) about a 'shortage of controllers'. I've also seen the odd NOTAM appear restricting services and hours, starting 'Due staff shortages...', even from the larger airports, so I'm guessing that this shortage of trained ATCOs is for real.

So, the big question is - why doesn't there seem to be any increase in vacancies being advertised? Flight tends to have one a week or less, and anywhere with radar (i.e. anywhere serious) stipulates an APS rating to be a requirement for application. I'm at a non-radar unit and only have ADV/ADI/APP ratings, so this doesn't help me - the last unit I applied to (and I'd like to think that I had a quite a bit going for me in this last one, bar the lack of radar) didn't even bother to tell me that I'd not been asked to interview. When applying to NATS, they made me jump through the same application hoops as an ab initio off the street and haven't replied to me since acknowledging the application more than a year ago.

Please don't think I'm posting this as a shortcut to trying to get jobs. Given a fair chance, I've no problem with applying for vacancies like anyone else as and when they turn up. I'm just wondering why, when people are talking seriously about shortages of controllers, isn't any moderately busy unit even slightly interested in someone without the full set of ratings?

Slowclimber

[Gonzo]

What reason did NATS give when you contacted them after not hearing anything for a while?

[slowclimber]

Gonzo -

The only contact details I had for NATS recruitment/HR is through their web application system. I did have the ability to reply to their acknowledgement initially, but neither the acknowledgement and the reply facility seem to be available any more. I have tried various numbers but get short and unhelpful replies. I get the impression that it's difficult to get in from the outside!

If you have a name and contact number for the person responsible for 'experienced controller recruitment' (I think that was the title), I'd be very grateful.

Afterthought - I have tried direct approaches to various NATS units who have said that they can't help me, so maybe it's not just difficult for those of us on the outside :bored:

SC

[heywa]

Slow Climber, patience I say. The worldwide shortage is becoming more evident every day. It will not be long before we can literally pick and choose where we want to work, and under what terms and conditions. It may take a few years yet, but with some of the major pay increases just announced in several places around the globe, the signs are there that many ANSPs are finally realising the true situation.

On to your post; I would also be very grateful for a contact in charge of Experienced Controller recruitmant. I approached NATS a couple of years back and had an extremely tough time trying to get anywhere with them. HR was right up there with the best of them, f#$ken hopeless :mad: b@stards. I have been controlling for 10 years now in several places around the globe, currently gaining some great experience in the middle east. I hold a UK passport, and have a desire to live and work in the UK as an Enroute Radar Controller. Hey, here I am, I'm willing to commit, but not as an ab initio controller! Starting from scratch at the college was the best idea they could come up with. Gee, thanks but no thanks. No recognition for my Masters in Aviation either. Do NATS need controllers or not?! Those at the coal face please, what is the current staffing situation at Swanick? Can someone please provide me with a contact that would be beneficial, not Andy Hutchinson please, he was dead from the knees up.:ugh:

[heywa]

'recruitment' sorry:O

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

The shortage has existed for 30+ years to my knowledge and continues to get worse because management want to squeeze more and more out of staff and have reduced the training system to a farce. Or am I talking nonsense?

[throw a dyce]

Certain employers are only interested in all the ratings,because it costs £ to train people.They poach from others.Just look at the latest ''Flight'' and see that Serco are on the prowl again.Must have run out of ''Quality Controllers'' again.(a Serco managers words,not mine)
If you're Area radar rated,or Approach radar then you have a far higher chance than less qualified.However it doesn't stop a lot of employers HR departments acting like idiots,and creating the wrong impression.People are getting less inclined to move,so the supply of Atcos is drying up.
I am amazed that the ATC system continues to function sometimes.The way that some employers treat people,they are damn lucky that they stay around in such a high stress job.But the employers continue to chip away at the operational staff conditions,while creating HR,PR empires that just back slap all the time.However behind the operational staff,the knives are very sharp.:suspect:
Just sums up the aviation industry.:uhoh:

[slowclimber]

Thanks guys! Cheered me up no end... :bored:
Patience it is, then!

[ATCO Fred]

Slowclimber

I have recently made the Mil-Civ crossover and share some of your views. I would have loved to have joined NATS and help 'alleviate' the controller shortage (okay just by one) but I just couldn't for several reasons.

I left the RAF to get choice back into my life and I would get none from NATS. Also, appalled with the way you get treated by HR. I have just shy of 20 years experience in Terminal controlling, Area controlling and Safety Management and that counts for C**ck all. I have to compete with the 18 Yrs olds on £10K under training and then take 2 years to get back to a reasonable salary. Committed yes - suicidal no!

As it was, I put my money where my mouth is and paid for my own ADI training, and my employer paid for App Proc, and yes, I got a job at my local airfield and I get to go home every night - exactly the reason I left the MOD.

In my view, the single biggest thing that is preventing NATS from 'acquiring' some good experienced controllers at relatively short notice is HR. But then again aren't NSL going to be bought out by Serco.:eek:

In relation to your comments ref endorsement, yes all employers are going to ask for the full set (ADI, APP OJTI etc) but according to my contacts very few of those who have advertised recently have had applications from those fully endorsed. Also, bearing in mind that the purse strings are getting ever tighter the ATS manager may well want to take on a less experienced controller and pay for further training (the bond means they get continuity) but does the financial director share their view? Is the funding available?

From my experience the single biggest thing you can do to help yourself is to show interest in the unit you wish to go to. Go on a visit. Enter into dialogue with the SATCO and ensure that when the next vacancy arises you are top of the list. I have been told by several ATS managers that the single biggest thing they look at with a new employee is how well will they fit into the controlling team.

Just my ten penith......

Fred

[Chilli Monster]

slowclimber

The one thing you have to remember to is the vicious circle that's hitting non-NATS ATC.

Management (as in airport, fund holding management, not unit management) have been burned by too many people failing courses (it's a fact of life, it happens, we accept it, they don't).

So - ATCO retires, needs replacing:

1) Can't replace them until they actually go - so unit is short staffed from that point

2) Want someone, but can't find someone fully qualified, even if we advertise, because nobody out there

3) Can't take someone part qualified because we won't risk £25K on a course in case they fail and we have a part qualified on our hands - better to wait for someone who fits in the (2) category.

And so the circle continues.

Have a look at the "Airports and Airlines" forum - especially the latest part of the "Durham Tees Valley" forum to see what is happening out there.

My advice - market research, find out who's short, find out who's paying for training, get the letters and CV's out. (I did that Aerodrome only, got an APP and APS course back to back within 14 months).

Good luck

[anotherthing]

According to NATS management, we will be fully manned by end of 2008....... so maybe HR is doing the correct thing and not contacting applicants.

Or maybe the 'fully manned' is just an utter load of management tosh.

[SINGAPURCANAC]

Helo slowclimbers and others!
I have been thinking about the same thread those days. You just put my opinion. As I have similar problem I think that shortage of ATCOs as real problem doesn't exist. I am not able to explain it but look some stories as I understood it.
NAV CANADA global search: You must meet police requirments and visa requirements, no one guaranty job , no air tickets and hotel will be paid upon arrival for testing purpose, also they are interested for ATCOs from large units...
my question to them: Do you really believe that someone from big unit (e.g. FRA,LHR..) will leave secure job and join NAV CAN, under such conditions?
In my country I am ATCO.It means that some very sensitive papers are presented to me and I am qualified to deal with all possible circumstances which may arise during teroristic action. So my country and defence structure belive to me but NAv CAN and their police will check me. Thank you but I am too proud for such "checks".
All those things are also related to ASA global search. Apart from the fact that I am not interested to live and work in Canada and Australia, it seems to me that they don't need ATCOs. If they don't need ATCO why should I apply?
The second thing is related to relationship between operational ATCOs and ANSP management. I think that ANSP management uses expat aplication just as a device when they have to deal with pay rise. They could say to their employees that there is no reason for pay rise because " hundreds and hundreds" qualified ATCOs want to join our comapny at present salaries level!
The third thing is related to HR departments. Who say that they know their job? I always say that HR department is department where ANSP engaged the worst ATCOs. Sorry for anyone who thinks that he/she is not stupid but if we faced with shortage for 30+ years it is obviously that something should be changed.
My opinion is based upon my experience. I have been in position to go to another unit where shortage of ATCOs was evident. No single paper were aked for, they paid us double than their people, all necessary papers were prepared, they sent us to training center and finally we have been working without proper license. Also we didn't signed a contract. My personal opinion is that we helped to this unit and today this unit is perspective with constant traffic rise of 20% p.a.
The last and the most important thing is that we are looking for 200 best working positions in the world ( if you have only secondary school and license) so competition is strong. Maybe patience ....

[Jerricho]

NAV CANADA global search: You must meet police requirments and visa requirements, no one guaranty job , no air tickets and hotel will be paid upon arrival for testing purpose, also they are interested for ATCOs from large units...
my question to them: Do you really believe that someone from big unit (e.g. FRA,LHR..) will leave secure job and join NAV CAN, under such conditions?

I did..............

[chevvron]

Years ago the NATS Personnel setup was staffed at least partially by ATCOs who could look at applicants experience and make the decision very quickly.
Nowadays HR only seems to have (and I may be wrong) clerical staff who are presented with a basic outline on what to look for from applicants, and who for some reason are unable to look outside these parameters.
Someone with a civil licence normally has to do an APC (Assessment of Prior Competence) rather than a full course at the college.

[radarman]

chevvron,
Don't know about HR being clerical staff. In my experience (NATS and SERCO)they are mostly limp-wristed luvvies who, when faced with making a decision, hide behind company politics. Had one out here a couple of weeks ago, supposedly to brief me on some T&C questions I had posed to Head Office. Hadn't a clue - took notes of my problems and promised :suspect: to get back to me with the answers. Yeah yeah! Heard it all before.

[chevvron]

That's what I meant; they simply don't understand that the ATCO profession isn't like 'normal' industry and each individual has different experience and capabilites which they are totally unprepared to assess.
Any jobs going at your place? I'm due to retire soon and it would be nice to get a 'foothold' before I do.