NJS goes TWU?

[Kransky]

Little bird tells me that 140 paid up memberships from National Jet pilots have rolled up at the WA branch of the TWU in the last three weeks. Anyone confirm? And are we going to see some action from the normally reclusive natjet boys and girls :eek:

[Brasilian Bird]

The Magic 8 Ball says... "probably" :E

[R.Cruizo]

If the shooting starts between NJS management and the TWU, there's alot of other GA operators at Perth who's management will start feeling uncomfortably nervous.

RC

[WynSock]

Go get em NJS boys and girls!

I would love to see some management butt kicked for a change.

"Due to the competitive aviation environment, pilots pay will increase 50% while management will accept a 75% pay cut. This measure will help to encourage employment of the talent required to run an airline efficiently. "

" Accountants will no longer be offered personal bonuses to reduce the wages of flight crew."

[cunninglinguist]

I think the figure of 140 is a " little " inflated ( by about double ), but yes, its true.
Also heard that each pilot receives a Blue tank top with ureka stockade flag on the front, pair of stubbies, pair of tri pluggers and a beer gut with membership. ( Ok, the last item may not be reqired by some )

Not sure I can see the NJS guys/gals standing out the front of the airport, in that get up, picketing because some bag snatcher got sacked for stealing or ramming an A/C......................hang on, silly me, bag snatchers don't get sacked :ugh:

At least now maybe they will see new 717 F/Os getting paid more than the honey cart driver :{

[flitegirl]

and for that matter the meal cart driver

[Shed Dog Tosser]

All jokes aside, what is it that the TWU offered the NJS staff that roused 70 plus members in the blink of an eye, are there more to sign up ?, why such movement ?.

[Capn Bloggs]

Action....

[Brasilian Bird]

there's alot of other GA operators at Perth who's management will start feeling uncomfortably nervous.

A lot of whom lost staff to NJS, and those now-NJS staff are sick of putting up with sh!t conditions... only now they're in the numbers to actually be able to DO something about it...

Watch this space... :ok:

[cunninglinguist]

Pity all this did'nt happen 6-7 years ago, hey Bloggsy.

Not saying the horse has bolted..........just that its disappeared over the hill, been caught by the RSPCA, put in a paddock, died of old age, been sent to Pal factory, eaten by dogs, and 5hit out the other end ;)

[ITCZ]

Cunning, I wouldn't say this horse has bolted.

The pilot workforce at NJS is a new beast. This is not just the twenty or thirty of the "usual suspects" that stir the pot while the remaining 150-odd jet pilots plod along.

All the different clans in the NJS pilot body have signed up for the TWU. The checkies. The ex-Ansett and ex-Australian guys. The ex-GA boys and girls. The ex-Military guys. The Wazza nostalgists. The DM aficionados.

All of them have reached into their pockets and paid FULL subs to join the TWU (not discounted one-off specials as at Easterns two years ago).

The TWU was selected for its depth of resources, for its robust and direct approach to negotiations, and not in the least for its reputation.

NJS pilots did not select a well spoken, suit and tie outfit to represent them this time. They picked muscle.

It has been amazing to see how this unification has sprung up and swung into being in such a short space of time. Pilots are normally hopeless at banding together as a group. Just goes to show the depth of feeling across all the different 'tribes' of NJS pilots.

All this over one thing -- NJS pilots did not want a pay rise, did not have any demands.

The company wanted to remove CPI indexing from existing pilot contracts and introduce B scale. They were told in no uncertain terms that the latter was undesireable, and the former completely unacceptable. This was ignored, and the result is not dissimilar to poking a snake with a stick.

All the NJS pilots wanted was to keep their existing terms and conditions, and for their new colleagues to enjoy the same. They didn't want thousands of dollars extra per year due to the 'pilot shortage'. Not being greedy.

Watch this space!

[cunninglinguist]

All I can say is good luck ITCZ, traditionally once you lose something you never get it back and I don't like your chances of getting rid of B scale which is really a watershed for NJS.
Last I heard there were 40 odd in the TWU, if the other 100 have joined in the last 2 weeks then great.
I think it goes without saying the TWU or any union for that matter can do absolutely nothing without the backing of the pilots as a majority, that is where I think you will have problems.
Sincerely wish you and the others all the best.

[freddyKrueger]

excellent post ITCZ. I am detecting a threshold has been crossed by vb/qf and now njs, the momentum is becoming self-reinforcing.
The line in the sand has been crossed & forced their crews to become radicalized. The era of greed and pursuit of profit & bonuses via unsustainable practices for pilots has reached a turning point. These operators only have themselves to blame.

[Shed Dog Tosser]

ITCZ,

Perhaps you could suggest to the TWU that they jump on pprune and tell all interested what they can do for the guys at Perth.

A few friends are flying on the north side of the airport that are watching this thread with extreme interest, perhaps more memberships would follow ?.

[RENURPP]

Cunning,
its over 100 and it all happened in two weeks. Numbers are increasing by the day. that says it all in my book

Shed dog,
they have the link to this site and will make themsleves known before I long I suggest.

[jarjar]

Well XR are already with the TWU, National jet shortly, would be nice for other pilots to follow. What this could mean, is that all perth based pilots are negotiating together for better t&c's. Instead of each operator comparing t&c's for similar a/c types when in comes to negotiations, everyone will be on the same page and we can work together to improve t&c's. (hope i made sense).
JarJar

[cunninglinguist]

Thats all well and good guys, a nice warm fuzzy feeling etc.
But when the TWU goes to NJ management for example, and asks for more money, better conditions etc and the std answer of " the contract is already cut to the bone " or " cobham are already taking less than half the profit they want " or whatever other crap the CIA come up with, what happens then ??
Does the TWU guy, take his tanky off and wack one of the CIA until you get a payrise?? I think not.
Remember how the TWU got where they are, WRT conditions for there members etc, mainly by going on strike or go slows, that sort of thing.
Will be interseting to see what happens considering NJS pilots would'nt even stick together on the not working on days off thing some years ago.

Joining the TWU is one thing, taking action is another.
We will continue this discussion in 12 months.

Good luck ( sincerely )

[RENURPP]

Cunning,
you are right, only time will tell.
We can't do any worse than our friends in Jokestar etc.
Maybe with a few of the pilots who are overly self interested gone, the current political climate, the shortage of suitable pilots, a change of representation, the OWS prosecuting the company with significant fines, pilots have simply had enough of the current management they MAY stand up and say enough. Most importantly they are not seeking a huge pay rise, simply status quo.

The group has taken the first step and asked for aggressive representation.

[3 Holer]

Agreed cunninglinguist. A union is only as strong as it's members and when the time comes to stand up on an issue, you had better all be united. If not, you would be just as well served by the Bankstown Bowling Club members committee. ;)
RENURPP. How will the TWU provide the group with "aggressive representation"?

[RENURPP]

How will the TWU provide the group with "aggressive representation"?

Watch this space!

[cunninglinguist]

" Maybe with a few of the pilots who are overly self interested gone"
Hey!! I resemble that :}

" We can't do any worse than our friends in Jokestar etc "
Mate, we've had this discussion before, but NJS has a fair way to go to get up to Jet* conditions :hmm:

[DirtySanchezcousin]

Hey CUNNY, stench got too bad in Vic Ehhhh? See you in the fragrant harbour!:}:}:}:}:}:}

[cunninglinguist]

uhh, think you may have me confused with recent NJ guy who leaving :confused: ( am SEQ )

[hoffer]

from little things big things grow ,from one member to 100 in a few weeks says it all and if we keep the unity which i know is very hard in this game we can succeed we dont need the suit and we dont need the blue singlet maybe the number 11 steel caps might come in handy but we will leave that to last option stay tuned soon things will start to get a bit uncomfortable for the shiney bums and so it should this is a good union with very strong traditions and can achieve anything providing njs boys and girls stick

[hoffer]

they got with a bit of strength

[theheadmaster]

Hey Hoffer, throw in a couple of these "," and a few of these "." and you might find it easier to breathe. We may also find it easier to comprehend what you are trying to say. ;)

[Icarus2001]

Eventually all the muscular, articulate, aggressive or persuasive representations from the TWU to NJS can be ignored by NJS management UNLESS there is an ...or else...behind them. Always has been true, always will be. The only reason the TWU are seen as strong is that their members have always been prepared to well, you know, that word, s t r i k e.
What are the NJS guys prepared to do?

[Led Zep]

Get the refuellers behind the pilots! Surely they would be TWU members. No fuel for NJS aircraft if the pilots decide to strike...can't bring in ringers to fly their aircraft with no go juice. :suspect: :E

[Angle of Attack]

Too Little too late, as usual most pilots are a bunch of conservative wimps and they get what they deserve, this should have happened years ago. Good luck to them , who cares about the law you damn strike when you want, its nothing about the law it's about grinding companies to a halt, and it always will be. Illegal or not if everyone did it the company withers, so you need to be united to bring them to their knees, I hope you NJS pilots are otherwise dont bother. And yeah bag me but I dont care, I live by values and I am revelling in it! haha!!:E

[gas-chamber]

What nonsense to talk of strike action. Nothing learned from 1989 ? The only pilots with the balls to strike would be those who are financially so independent they would not give a toss about the consequences - legal, financial, career, whatever. The rest even if they were not around in 1989 have enough history on this to know it did not work then and would have even less chance of success now.
A far better course of action and perfectly legal is to work strictly to rule. Light bulb blown in Outer Hicksville? - put it in the tech log. Check every document on the airplane when accepting it - could take two hours to be sure that it's all in order. A nick in a mainwheel tire - better get an airframe engineer out on Sunday to look at it. All in the name of safety, of course, so the legal people would not take you on. Written report to CASA at the 1st sign of pressure. Go on current affairs TV and bag the crap out of the company if any safety issues need airing. Fatigue would be a good start.
And leave the phone off the hook when not rostered on standby, refuse callouts no matter what the financial incentive, make it next to impossible for ops to contact you with roster changes. So many legal ways without the old suicide by strike act.

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Further to what Gas Camber has pointed out, there are also new parameters by which stiking can occur.

There was a road work crew, building a railway ?, that went on strike, under the new legislation it was deemed an illegal strike, so the company took the union and indiviuals to court to recover the loss of income and down time. All told each employee was slugged with a mid to high $20K fine.

No more favours, that is the best way to grease the management pole, it's a slippery slide from there, you will see some desperate actions taken by your "shiny bums" then, before you know it you've got them in court with them getting the pineapple, it is an election year remember.

Don't skip meal breaks to get back on schedule times, if there is a single cloud in the sky shoot approaches at every opportunity, i'm sure there are more, but management need to know that compromise is a two way street.

[Whiskey Oscar Golf]

I also agree with Messers, Chamber and SDT, bugger strikes, these days you can be creative with industrial action as well as not being overt. Find out which managers are your main bugbears, find out what they get bonused for and target them, all legally and by that wonderfully explicit book. Be discerning in your action and hurt in ways that show power but don't decimate. Your intention is not to destroy the company, it's to get treated better in your job.

Timing is critical also, make sure if people are leaving, they leave en mass. Most importantly let managers know why things are happening and give them the ability to bargain out. Don't build big walls and keep your requirements reasonable and work towards resolution. Sometimes in serious disputes people lose sight of intention and get all keen on destruction. They get into ego battles which don't help anyone.

Good luck people and I'm glad I'm not dealing with "the buckets only so deep" CIA anymore.

[RENURPP]

I don't believ anybody actually was serious about a "strike" where they?:hmm:

The other inputs by gas chamber and co, should be of more interest though. ;)

[Icarus2001]

I certainly wasn't suggesting a strike, we all know they are generally illegal. I was pointing out that without some threat to the continued smooth running of operations there is no reason for management to move from their previous position.

With regard to work to rule, go slow etc a friend in engineering tells me that they are already operating this way, the engineers that is, and have been for some time.

[Toolman101]

Icarus

The engineers are not working to rule it just that almost 50% of them have left the company in Perth. With more to come I suspect if rumours are to be believed

The idiot management have replaced them with a few lames (without relevent type ratings) and a whole swag of ame's, most of whom are as green as grass.

Oh the joys of AWA's:{

[RENURPP]

The goss around town indicates that the TWU has applied for a bargaining period for around 30ish NJS pilots who's AWA's have already expired and that will increase dramatically 30 June when most of them expire!

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Rumour has it, Pilot members in NJS is over 100 now.

Apparently Skywest and the RFDS pilots are also members in the majority as well, would really like to know why ?.

In most part Pilots view the present organisations with apathy ?, is this the change that was needed to turn things around ?.

Come on TWU, what is it that you are selling that so many appear interested in and to date satisifed with ?.

[Icarus2001]

They know lots of dirty tricks probably, as discussed above. The only way to extract leverage is to fight dirty, management have set the bar at all companies so now it is time to repay the favour. Accountants do not see good will towards the company on a balance sheet but operations certainly see the lack of it when people go sick or will not be called in or stop accepting late changes or MEL items. VB has actually had to cancel routes as a direct result. How do you measure that good will? The VB marketing people try to sell it but it dried up about two years ago...at least.

[hoffer]

I never got to where i am today because of my grammar but i will try and improve

[WynSock]

W.O.G said Find out which managers are your main bugbears, find out what they get bonused for

I think you are on to something there. The trouble is, too many financial officers are awarded bonuses for reducing costs. i.e. wages/conditions.

The status quo in most Australian companies is: corporate profits and share price go up, wages/conditions go down.

viva la revolution

[RENURPP]

I know at least three in the CIA that fit this bill. In fact I suggest the author knows them very well!
Warning over workplace psychopathsBy Jade Bilowol
June 14, 2007 01:34pm
Article from: AAPFont size: + -
Send this article: Print Email
WORKPLACE psychopaths are common in major businesses and are ruining the lives of their colleagues, an expert has warned.
And they are often rewarded for their ruthless behaviour because they appear smart and creative but are really manipulative bullies who steal ideas, according to Sydney-based psychotherapist and author John Clarke.
Dr Clarke, who has penned two books about workplace psychopaths and will speak at the state government-sponsored Queensland Safety Show in Brisbane next week, today said up to three per cent of the Australian population was psychopathic.
"I would say that in every major company there would be at least one," Dr Clarke said.
"Psychopaths are very comfortable in successful corporations because they are actually rewarded for their behaviour.
"In business you are encouraged to make money for the company and if you appear to be doing whatever it takes to make money, you are often promoted.
"They are seen as rising employees who are full of energy and creativity."
But behind the facade, such workers were "ego-centric, grandiose, pathological liars with a lack of conscience, remorse and guilt", Dr Clarke said.
"I think the workplace psychopath is actually more dangerous than the violent criminal psychopath, because the workplace psycho is smart, charismatic, charming and much less likely to get caught," he said.
Dr Clarke said victims were miserable, suffered depression, anxiety and panic attacks and feared going to work.
"Psychopaths isolate their victims through cutting them out of the lines of communication and then destroy them," he said.
"I know of several situations where employees have committed suicide because these people felt there was no other alternative.
"You are at work, you think about it, then you go home and think about it and question if it's something to do with you.
"You think about all the different scenarios until work is all you think about and at this stage it's destroying your life."
Dr Clarke said employees could protect themselves through education, communication or ultimately leaving their workplace.
"If you know what they do, you are less likely to be sucked in and communication in the workplace makes you feel less isolated," he said.
"But you need to evaluate your situation and, if you can't change it, you need to evaluate the costs for your mental health versus finding a new position elsewhere."


With the exception of the following comment smart, charismatic, charming and much less likely to get caught," he said.


The CIA meet this description only in their own lunch boxes.

[RENURPP]

Rumour has it that the GMHR has fallen on his sword.
That is good news:ok:

The Office of Workplace Services (OWS) has widened its legal action against major transport operator National Jet Systems Pty Ltd (NJS), adding claims from another 30 pilots for a further $65,130 in underpayments, OWS Director Mr Nicholas Wilson said today.

The OWS investigation and court action against NJS now alleges that 33 employees have been underpaid, and two of these employees have had duress applied to them to sign AWAs.

“OWS is now taking action in respect of the entitlements of 33 NJS employees to recover a total of more than $70 000 in unpaid wages, and to seek penalties for these underpayments and the two cases of AWA duress,” Mr Wilson said.

The initial court application lodged by OWS on 27 May 2007 alleged the company underpaid three pilots by withholding CPI pay increases due under their pre reform Australian Workplace Agreements (AWAs). The underpayments totalled $5,377.31. The initial application also alleged that NJS applied duress to two of those pilots to sign AWAs. OWS seeks full recovery of the underpayments and penalties against the company for both the underpayments and the duress applied to the two employees.

The subsequent application lodged in the Federal Magistrates’ Court in Perth on Friday 15 June 2007, seeks full recovery of underpayments resulting from the employer’s failure to pay the additional 30 pilots a CPI salary increase to which, it is alleged, they were entitled under their existing AWAs. Further penalties are also sought for these underpayments. The OWS is not alleging that duress was applied to these 30 employees.

OWS’ decision to take legal action comes after extensive investigations and numerous opportunities given to NJS to rectify the alleged underpayments and a lack of co-operation from the company.

“All employers must be absolutely clear - OWS will not hesitate to prosecute an employer who refuses to cooperate and /or rectify breaches of workplace relations law,” he said. “Employers risk potentially significant penalties – up to $33 000 per breach of the Workplace Relations Act 1996.”

The Directions Hearing for OWS case against National Jet Systems remains set for 9.00am on 3 July 2007, in the Federal Magistrates’ Court in Perth.

National Jet Systems Pty Ltd is a major national transport operator employing over 800 people providing contracted airline charter, freight and passenger operations to large civil and government organisations in Australasia.

Any employee who considers that they may have been denied their entitlements is encouraged to contact the OWS via the OWS Help Line on 130 724 200 to lodge a claim or visit our website www.ows.gov.au .

“OWS, soon to be the Workplace Ombudsman, is committed to ensuring that the rights and obligations of workers and employers under workplace law are protected, understood and enforced fairly”, said Mr Wilson.


The word on the street is that this is just the beginning.:=:=

[Icarus2001]

So now they will employ a legal team at X thousand dollars per day to defend their case. The meter is running on that little exercise. How much will that cost? I am willing to guess as much if not more than the $70,000 in unpaid CPI increases....so IF they win a zero sum argument (no costs awarded against OWS), IF they lose then they are $150,000 behind...how many FIFO flights will it take to make that back?

[Jellyfish]

Is this the work of the blue singlet arm if so i am sure the boys and girls of NJS can afford lots of new blue singlets with that victory .........looks like the TWU is working for you.........about time we saw some muscle flex .............make those pen pushing paper shuffling public servants work............ lets see some sweat in this election year you political animals you

You wish Jellyfish:D

[RENURPP]

30 more pilots underpaid

19th June 2007, 17:15 WST



The Office of Workplace Services (OWS) has accused a transport company of underpaying 33 pilots, sounding a warning to employers breaching workplace relations laws.

In May, OWS alleged National Jet Systems had underpaid three pilots by $5,377 and forced two pilots to sign AWAs.

Legal action has widened after OWS added the claims of another 30 pilots for a claim of $65,130 in underpayments by the 33 pilots in the Federal Magistrates Court last Friday.

The application seeks the full recovery of underpayments resulting from the employer's failure to pay the additional 30 pilots a CPI salary increase to which, it is alleged, they were entitled under their existing AWAs.

OWS director Nicholas Wilson said the decision to take legal action comes after extensive investigations and numerous opportunities by National Jet Systems to rectify the alleged underpayments and a lack of co-operation from the company.
"OWS will not hesitate to prosecute an employer who refuses to co-operate and/or rectify breaches of workplace relations law," Mr Wilson said.

"Employers risk potentially significant penalties - up to $33,000 per breach of the Workplace Relations Act 1996."

National Jet Systems employs more than 800 people and provides contracted charter, freight and passenger operations to large civil and government organisations.

AAP

[Icarus2001]

So that would be a maximum potential fine of 33 x 33,000 = $1,089,000 plus the cost of the unpaid CPI at $75,000 and the cost of legal fees...$50,000?
$1,214,000 wow. What a fantastic management tactic, no wonder the HR manager resigned!

[RENURPP]

Rumour has it that PN was given a ticket to London at short notice??

[The Voice]

ooohah, that'll be interesting if it's true.

[Toolman101]

It true, I believe he has been in the UK since last week

[MinimaNoContact]

Ticket to London for what??

[WynSock]

To receive a knighthood for excellent human resource management of course.

:}

[JetRacer]

He's not the messiah, just a very naughty little boy!! :):eek::=:hmm:

[Icarus2001]

Not far from London...

http://www.paris-air-show.com/en/

[Chocks Away]

Why a ticket to London... more likely to answer to the owners... his Big Boss, I'd say!?

[Capn Bloggs]

In the AFR, 4July07:

"National Jet Systems will push for an out-of-court settlement for 33 pilots allegedly underpaid more than $65,000. The company - which flies workers in and out of mine sites in WA and Queensland under the Qanstas Link banner - was under investigation by the Workplace Ombudsman for allegedly failing to honour CPI increases in its AWA. The case is set for October 15".

[Icarus2001]

Apparently the same management that came up with this stuff is planning a roadshow in the next week or so to "consult" with their staff...or try to head off a very expensive court case in October.

Pulls out deckchair and opens popcorn...

2008 Year of the Australian Pilot

[Capt Claret]

From today's Australian. http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,22024141-23349,00.html


Charter company in court battle

July 06, 2007

NATIONAL Jet Systems faces a five-day hearing in Perth in October, over allegations it underpaid pilots and forced two to sign workplace agreements.

The Adelaide aircraft charter company, which says it wants to resolve a dispute with 33 pilots it is accused of underpaying, has been taken to the Federal Court by the Office of Workplace Services.

The OWS has accused it of underpaying the pilots by a total of $65,130 and forcing two pilots to sign AWAs.

The company's lawyer, Harry Dixon, argued in a telephone link-up to the Perth court for a six- to eight-week adjournment so that NJS could pursue a dispute resolution process outlined in the pilots' AWAs.

"There is a significant prospect of the issues being substantially narrowed," Mr Dixon said.

The pilots' lawyer, Nick Ellery, said not all the pilots were still covered by AWAs.

The OWS also had the power to pursue the alleged AWA breach and seek penalties, even if the pilots did not wish to pursue the matter, Mr Ellery said.

Even if the pay issue was resolved, allegedly forcing two pilots to sign AWAs remained a serious breach, he said.

"Our allegation is the employer has committed duress," Mr Ellery said.

Magistrate Toni Lucev said he did not believe the court could order the pilots, even if their AWAs were binding, to follow the dispute resolution process.

But he gave National Jet more time, setting the matter down for a five-day hearing on October 15.

OWS said employers risked potentially significant penalties - up to $33,000 per breach of the Workplace Relations Act 1996.

National Jet Systems employs more than 800 people and provides contracted charter, freight and passenger operations to large civil and government organisations.

AAP

[Icarus2001]

So it would appear that even if the company settle with their staff the OWS would still continue with the case?
Paying the CPI before the case would be seen as an admission that they were in the wrong? Therefore weakening their position in court?

[Toolman101]

The company's lawyer, Harry Dixon, argued in a telephone link-up to the Perth court for a six- to eight-week adjournment so that NJS could pursue a dispute resolution process outlined in the pilots' AWAs.



Why didn't NJS do this before it got to the AIRC? :confused:

[Rizal]

What the hells going on with the NJS pilot group??!! someone tell me its not true that a committee member who was pressing his fellow pilots not to sign an AWA has gone and signed one! My source in NJS tell me his wife told him to! Well theres one that takes me back to '89! Is it true that your leader was talking up industrial action but then changed his mind when some intelligent person told him the consequences of his action? Guys and Gals, please tell me your not thinking about industrial action because if you do you may be sticking it to the company but ultimately you would be sticking it to yourselves. For those of you who cant grasp the concept, the contractor/client relationship works like this; Qantas pay NJS to do a job, if they cant do that job then NJS doesnt have a contract. If you wish to delay aircraft unnecessarily, ground aircraft, work to rule then youwould be going down the right path to ensure your long term relationship with the Q becomes redundant.
Word is your committee have dropped the ball and now the feds are back in play as a direct result of concerns the current committee are incapable of negotiating and where it all may end up.
Start thinking for yourselves boys and girls.

[RENURPP]

Wrong on all counts.:mad:
Good idea lets all look after ourselves, stuff you Jack I am alright.
People with your selfish attitude are the ones who got pilots in this position.
The word is that pilots are considering industrial action. Yes, suported by the TWU after the appropriate steps have been followed, ONLY IF management will not negotiate.
The pilots are not after lost more $$$$. at least I am not. Just what was promised which does not involve going further backwards.
If management believes that it will affect the contract then it is beholden on them to talk and resolve the issue.
If your idea is to simply bend over and take it then can I politely say, F off idiot. Lets lose another few thousand a year for 5 years, good thinking. Have you noticed the market out there at present.
Being your second post and the ****e you have spoken, maybe you reside in adelaide???

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Rizal,

No offence, either that was a poor attempt at a wind up, or your really are out of touch.

Times are changing.

[Tankengine]

With the current lack of future Pilots for Qantas, Jetstar and Virgin I don't think NJS Pilots should be too concerned about anyone moving west to whiteant them anyway!:}

[MinimaNoContact]

The pilots are not after lost more $$$$. at least I am not.

Why not?!? If you're trying to negotiate a package that will see the guys happy(ish) for the next few years, and plan on sticking around while every other operator follows the industry trend and ups their pay... there has been no better time than now, to make them pay.
With companies like VB now offering a base of over $100k for F/O's with some jet time, wheres the incentive to hang around NJS... and dont tell me its the lifestyle. DWN and CNS are doing more o/nighters than ever before and the whinging coming out of PTH has hit record highs.

[Capn Bloggs]

Rizal,

long term relationship with the Q becomes redundant.

That's never gunna happen. If you have any idea about economics of operating jets, have a look at how many seats QF is filling on Airlink, then see what the frontliners at NJS are being paid verses the job they do, you'll soon realise that QF are is onto the greatest thing since sliced bread (and they know it). Pity that it seems NJS management sold the troops short on the contract and now have to screw them...

Back to the accounting school for you, Rizal :=

[Capt Basil Brush]

Bloggs I thought it hasn't been called Airlink for about 10 years now.

Also, saying something in aviation is "never gunna happen" these days is a big call.

[Capt Claret]

Basil,

The product as sold to the pax is QantasLink. The entities that provide the QantasLink product are,
Airlink - All QantasLink jet services. QantasLink is a wholly owned Qantas subsidiary company which contacts NJS to provide crew and engineering support. I would guess that Airlink contracts Qantas or an arm of Qantas to supply several B717 airframes. Certainly when the BAe146 was the flagship of the QantasLink jet operation, Airlink did not own the aircraft.
Sunstate Airlines - Brisbane based and provider of DH8 services branded as QantasLink.
Eastern Australia - Sydney based and provider of DH8 services branded as QantasLink.

[Capn Bloggs]

the BAe146 was the flagship of the QantasLink jet operation

Those were the days...:{:D

[Kiwiconehead]

Those were the days...

Yes - I'm still in therapy :ugh:

[max autobrakes]

How about the break away group at Virgin ,
At this rate who will AFAP end up representing ?
Maybe Larrie could get a job at Trades Hall after he's turned the office lights off!;)

[nig&nog]

Cant be all that bad at NJS with current conditions, was passing through sim and saw an old J* capt name on the sim schedule for NJS.

[RENURPP]

He is there due to the current management team being unable to produce/update training manuals. "The Ünicorn".

[jack red]

Cant be all that bad at NJS with current conditions, was passing through sim and saw an old J* capt name on the sim schedule for NJS.
That could also mean is things at Jetstar are worse than at NJS :ok:

[ITCZ]

Why didn't NJS do this before it got to the AIRC?
Toolman, fair call, a couple of points for you to consider ...

1. The action is being taken by the OWS (office of workplace services) in the Federal Magistrates Court. It has nothing to do with the AIRC.



2. The OWS is like CASA. It doesn't pursue issues for the benefit of cheated employees. It is not there to get money for NJS pilots. The OWS prosecutes breaches of Workplace Relations act.

Think: If you worked for a dodgy AoC holder, and you reported them to CASA for breach of duty time limits, would you expect to get substitute days off? No. CASA would take your evidence, and prosecute the AoC holder for a breach of the CAR's, and fine the AoC holder or take away their AoC.

Same at OWS. OWS is using the testimony of at least 33 NJS pilots to prosecute NJS for breaches of the Workplace Relations Act. When the case is proven, the court will penalise NJS. It may make an order that the underpaid pilots be reimbursed and their contract of employment recognised. But mainly, it will be imposing penalties of up to $33,000 for each breach of the WR Act, the fines to be paid into Federal Government coffers.

Not only that, but individual managers that applied duress or coercion will be facing criminal proceedings and possible jail terms.:eek:



3. Why didn't NJS attempt to settle before? You tell me :rolleyes:

Are you telling me that every aviation manager you have met this far, is well trained, competent, farsighted, thorough, and diligent in acquitting their task?

Lucky you!

NJS were told before the pilots went to OWS that we would take it there if they didn't sort it out. We told them, clearly, that time was running out. Settle this now, because once the formal complaints are made, we pilots cannot retract them.

Once they were summonsed, they rang us to ask "can we talk about this?" :ugh:

Too late. It was discussed for six months before we took action. Problem belonga NJS. The OWS is very confident. The NJS silk looked a fool in front of the Federal Magistrate. Now NJS face a penalty that is ten or twelve times the underpayment amount. My heart bleeds.

[illusion]

Jack Red,
Good try but no. The said gent resigned from J* to go to a new start in Honkers and got cold feet- unable to return to J* so was grabbed with open arms by NJS. The first person they have been able to procure in over a decade that brings substantial experience, reputation and integrity with him. Unfortunately it probably will not rub off onto the encumbents.

[Icarus2001]

Not only that, but individual managers that applied duress or coercion will be facing criminal proceedings and possible jail terms.
...presumably EVEN IF said manager/s have resigned in the interim:cool:

[Shed Dog Tosser]

It will be very interesting to see if the DPP prosecutes NJS on behalf of the OWS for the full penalty under the law, as worked out earlier on this post, fine of around $1M.

That will send a very clear message to all involved.

[Capt Claret]

I'll bet he's not coming in as a B Scale F/O!

[jack red]

.......unable to return to J*........ illusion are you saying that this pilot re-applied to Jet* after he got cold feet and Jet* refused to re-employ him ?

[cunninglinguist]

Close illusion but only half a cigar.
said gentleman did not get cold feet as you put it but was hotly pursued by CX and they made him an offer he could'nt refuse.
Unfortunately for NJS crew, his tenure will be extremely short ( he leaves for HK mid august )

Bloggsy, never gunna happen?
Do you really believe that 320s to KA, BRM, KG and maybe PD are not a possibilty? Not sure of exact figures but I'll put a months pay on the fact that Jet* could do those routes signifcantly cheaper than mainline and NJS combined.
They could even get away with calling a couple of those routes " leisure routes " , as they could with AYE, AS, DN and CS.
Not saying it will happen, but not sying its never gunna. :cool:

[Rizal]

Renurpp, instead of attacking me why dont you answer the questions, or is that how you negotiate? If thats the case then I can see why your not representing the pilots!! It seems you are good at stirring up an ever decreasing band of followers - look at all the pilots signing AWAs to take commands, even a committee member. What was his (or his wifes) excuse for betraying the cause? Is his call now "Äll for one, and one for himself"? Do you have an answer? How come the Feds are negotiating with the company and the pilot group/TWU isnt? Is it because you dont know how to negotiate - look the term up sometime. It doesnt say"sit there, say no to everything and dont offer anything." Tell us, did the pilot group offer an alternative agreement? and how about this time answer the questions and leave out the emotional outburst and bad language.
S D Tosser, 'Times are changing', but you apparently are not. I guess you dream of the good ole days when banging the table and being militant would work. Wake up, the Australian Work Choices legislation puts all the cards in favour of the employer, pilot shortage or not. Its a pity your dream could become everyone elses nightmare.
Capn Bloggs, oh dear old son, how about this: if you contract a plumber to fix your toilet and his contractors delay the job or cannot do the job then where are you going to poo (in your own nest probably)? Will you find another plumber to do the job? I suspect the answer is self explanatory and so its back to economics school for you. And let me see, the Hindenberg was never gunna fail, the third Reich was never gunna fall, Panam was never gunna fail and of course Ansett was never gunna fail. You also skipped history class.
I almost feel sorry for you guys. How stupid are you going to feel when you hold you little ballot and find theres a couple of you left standing yelling ''strike, strike"and theres no echo because everyone else has gone home.

[RENURPP]

RIZAL,
If you are an NJS pilot you can ask questions and comment on the NJS pilots BB, where you can't make such stupid comments behind the anonymity of PPRUNE.

If you are not an NJS pilot then bad luck. I suggest you find a new source. As I said originally all your info is absolute ****e.

[Capt Basil Brush]

Rizal, I am a bit confused as to why you are attacking me?

I made a 'general' comment to Capn Bloggs that has nothing to do with the NJS pilot's predicament, or whatever has caused the bee to get under your bonnet.

You start crapping on (pardon the pun) about plumbers and the Hindenburg etc saying things are "never gunna fail" - which funnily enough backs up my comment to Bloggs that saying things are "never gunna happen" is a big call.

So, to sum things up, its NOT back to economics school for me, but it's back to the Institution for you - your straight jacket is waiting.

[Hawk777]

Cunning,

Do you mean Skywest A320's doing KA, BRM, KG and PD to replace existing F50 and F100 flights???:ok:

[Ross Oakley]

Rizal,

Give me a call, you are obviously a troubled person.
You may have my number some where or someone you know will have it.

Personally I think our Pilot Group is heading in the right direction!

Regards