What Makes A Good Captain?

[jacqueline]

Hi

I have just completed a CRMI (ground) course and I have a class of new captains coming up. I am interested if there is any literature our there for CRM and also for personal views on the ideal captain.......

[ShyTorque]

I have just completed a CRMI (ground) course and I have a class of new captains coming up.

To your room? :)

[redsnail]

I don't know about any literature about.
I'm a new captain and the position is teaching me a lot but in a way I didn't expect.

I cannot speak for any one else but I've found that instead of demanding the FO do it "my way" let them do their style so long as it is compliant with the SOPs and so forth. Is it worth alienating your crew member for the sake of a word written on the PLOG? I don't think so. Is it worth making sure that it's SOP compliant, yes. SOP compliance is a must, technique compliance isn't.

I've also found that I am taking more of an "overview" of the day's flying rather than the nitty gritty of it. The FO's more than capable of doing the nitty gritty once s/he's been given the task of the day/sector.

It's absolutely vital to establish an open communication cockpit and to let the FO know that I expect him/her to speak up when necessary. I have found that rather than get upset at "new" FOs who may not be as fast at certain tasks let them have the time to learn and to offer guidance and suggestions. In other words, continue their training even though I am a new Captain. (I also remember what I was like learning to be an FO so it would be hypocritical of me to get angry).

If I don't support them, then they sure as heck won't support me.

In the years I was an FO I actively learnt from my captains. There were styles I liked and styles I didn't. I'd like to think I can hopefully be the captain that I liked.

I am sure there's other more vastly experience captains who can enlighten you further on this CRM task.

[ShyTorque]

Well said, Reddo, I fully agree with you. SOPs must be complied with, but there is often some leeway within them for personality, and so it should be.

Autocrats don't often get the best from their co-pilots; we're all human beings with individualities and feelings (just don't tell the engineers, not that they would believe it).

A good captain is someone who can get the best from his/her crew by allowing them to WANT to work to the best of their ability.

A sense of humour and a bit of human understanding goes a long way towards achieving that, IMHO.

These days I just please myself, as I operate single pilot much of the time. Trouble is, I've heard all my own jokes now.

[cavortingcheetah]

:hmm:
redsnail has the trick in one actually when she says that she remembers what it was like learning to be an FO. Hold that memory!:)

[Gulfstreamaviator]

The job of captain is to manage resources.

The crew must respect you and your ability to do the job professionally.

I have recently attended a CRM course, where an other captain, told everyone how he was the perfect captain.....but we all kenw how he really worked....

so coursesare only a small window.

glf

[parabellum]

1. Ensure all crew members have a room.

2. Identify the smokers in crew by waving a packet of free fags in the air.

3. Arrange crew party in a smokers room, (the one who took the fags).

4. Arrange for some small eats so that half way through a well developing
party some junior doesn't pipe up, "When are we going to eat?"

5. Buy one's round if necessary but hopefully CC Chief will have arranged sufficient 'part halves' to take off, (a la Laker).

6. Maintain smile in crew bus next morning waiting, whilst drumming fingers, for tardy crew members.

7. Never, ever, fall out with CC Chief.

8. Err............that's about it.

[Old Smokey]

To follow on from Ozymandias, never fail to thank the F/O for pointing out an error you've made or are about to make, even if it was only a small one. In that way, they will feel comfortable to call it when you're about to make a big one.:ok:

Know where to draw the line if and when a difficult operational scenario arises, such that the F/O is not pushed to or beyond their own level of comfort. For an F/O of low experience, tactfully take control after establishing that they're not comfortable (ask), and talk your way through the exercise (even if you're not an instructor or examiner) so that they learn something from it. For a more experienced F/O who is comfortable, ALLOW them to accomplish the exercise with your close monitoring and support, such that they might increase their confidence and ability. For an experienced Senior F/O, definately ALLOW them to accomplish the exercise with your close monitoring and support, as their command is approaching, and the experience will be invaluable.

Engender a cockpit atmosphere where the F/O is the Second in Command or Deputy Captain of the aircraft. One day, by force of circumstance, he or she may be elevated to command of the flight at a moment's notice.

Treat every crew member, from the most senior to the most junior, as a vital member of a complete professional crew. The day may arrive (it has many times) when the most junior crew member in the aft galley saves a whole lot of lives, one of which may be yours.

If my F/Os don't make better captains than I did, then I will have failed in my professional 'mandate'. Each aspiring Captain moving to the left seat brings with them their own individual abilities, PLUS all of the good input received from my generation, and all preceding generations of Captains.

Regards,

Old Smokey

[Dream Land]

Old Smokey, thanks for the great advice! :ok:

[ikan_terbang]

Be aware of getting overfriedly in an effort to get popular.
For me...I am firm and friendly initially. As the sectors go by, examine the level of trust you can afford to the FO. Then let the power distance ( or authority gradient ) shallow out a bit or as required.

[fireflybob]

Many years ago I wanted to define a "good" captain. I found it quite difficult until I came up with a brainwave - lets identify a "bad" captain! Always turns up to work late shabbily turned out and unprepared, is offhand to fellow crewmembers, doesn't follow Sops etc.

Now just invert the "bad" captain picture and what do you get? Always arrives at work on time (or even early!), well turned out and well prepared , is pleasant to fellow crew members, follows Sops etc - you get the idea I am sure!

That said there are, as they say, many different ways of skinning a cat! I also think a good captain has some "style" ! Some of the best ones I have ever flown with have had a unique style whilst still following the Sops etc. They have been fun to fly with but they also really knew the job inside out.

[Centaurus]

A good captain does not:
Constantly "advise" the F/O in an attempt to either disguise his (the captain's) own nervousness or to demonstrate his superior judgement.
Have his hands "hovering" over the flight controls under the pretext of "guarding" them. Worse still, "helping" the PF with his flare height or speed control. MITTS OFF!
Push or pull the throttles under the PF's hand while the PF is flying an ILS or landing generally. Again, MITTS OFF..
Insist high speed be kept up by the PF when clearly the time has come when a slower speed is appropriate.
Snap at the F/O for perceived transgressions against the captains personal viewpoints. Deliberately ignoring a support call from the F/O.
Act in a superior or otherwise disdainful manner towards his second in command as if he is just "the boy in the RH seat."
Encourage the F/O to make his own decisions on fuel loads, FMC inputs, thunderstorm avoidance using airborne radar, then over-rule each decision where clearly the situation allows for a flexible solution.

[Dream Land]

Have his hands "hovering" over the flight controls under the pretext of "guarding" them At my airline below 10,000 feet we are required not just to "hover" but to actually be ON the controls.

[BOAC]

but to actually be ON the controls- reminds me of the brief before the first night-flying circuits with the 'future Marshals of the RAF' at RAF Cranwell:

"Well, Bloggs, night landings are really just like day ones except the controls feel a little heavier at night".:)

[Rananim]

Some politically-correct answers so far..if a guy or gal is nice and follows all the rules but has lousy SA and/or judgement then does that make them a good Captain?NO.Turn it around and lets say the guy has excellent SA/judgement but is a difficult SOB and doesnt do everything by the rule-book?Is that possible you say?YES,I've seen it.I was flying before CRM became fashionable.Some of these Captains were excellent but in todays pc world would be lambasted as dinosaurs.Its difficult to say,because the SA/judgement qualities made him highly proficient but his inability to get along and hence get the best from his crew was a problem.The non-adherence to SOP's made my job more difficult.Whats he going to do next?I couldnt see the poetry he was showing me.I wasnt experienced enough.I was out of the loop which is bad.But read Gann's book and tell me its bad.Its a tough call really.
I suppose what I'm trying to say is..it would be awful if some young aspiring airline pilot reads this thread and thinks its more important to be nice and follow SOP's than to have experience and good judgement.Have them all I say.But always know that the bottom line is that safety is directly proportional to your experience and level of airmanship and not much else.

[BurglarsDog]

A good captain should act no differently to many others in real leadership situations. Perhaps read some of the great explorers lessons. Ranulph Fiennes for example bullet points many leadership lessons learned leading a crew of 2 or so across antarctica in one of his books; and Im sure many of these translate across the jumpseat into the more comfortable confines of a cockpit.

My own feelings :

Have fun, be nice, always be optimistic , appreciate cultural differences, and :-

Communicate Motivate Educate!

DogGone:ok:

[Tee Emm]

At my airline below 10,000 feet we are required not just to "hover" but to actually be ON the controls

Why on earth would any airline require BOTH pilots to be handling the controls at the same time. This is a recipe for confusion. What is wrong with the well known "You have control" or "I have control?" Is the autopilot on your aircraft so unreliable that you need to have four hands on the wheel?

[Dream Land]

It's called flying an Airbus. :eek:

[CamelhAir]

its more important to be nice and follow SOP's than to have experience and good judgement.

It's coming to an airline near you, one with a harp on the tail.
An airline with captains with only 1,000 jet hours (of the 3,000 total required, some are obtaining the first 2,000 instructing on SEP's), so experience is definitely not a prerequisite. However, an ability to not put a word wrong on SOP's is deemed sufficient qualification for command.
Where else would you have training captains promoted to that position almost as soon as getting their own command, and with barely 3,000 hrs themselves?
Beware the B738 near you with a total cockpit time of less than 3,500 hours, of which less than 1,500 may be jet time.
As for judgement, a quick perusal of the incident reports will scotch any idea that that's a requirement :(

[411A]

A good captain does NOT:

Constantly "advise" the F/O in an attempt to either disguise his (the captain's) own nervousness or to demonstrate his superior judgement.
Have his hands "hovering" over the flight controls under the pretext of "guarding" them. Worse still, "helping" the PF with his flare height or speed control. MITTS OFF!
Push or pull the throttles under the PF's hand while the PF is flying an ILS or landing generally. Again, MITTS OFF..
Insist high speed be kept up by the PF when clearly the time has come when a slower speed is appropriate.
Snap at the F/O for perceived transgressions against the captains personal viewpoints. Deliberately ignoring a support call from the F/O.
Act in a superior or otherwise disdainful manner towards his second in command as if he is just "the boy in the RH seat."
Encourage the F/O to make his own decisions on fuel loads, FMC inputs, thunderstorm avoidance using airborne radar, then over-rule each decision where clearly the situation allows for a flexible solution.

Very well said.
The First Officer has been trained and assigned to the flight.
Let him (or her) get on with the job, and generally it works out quite well.

What does not work out well is a Captain that is always trying to stick his oar in to muddy the waters.

[alf5071h]

References:-


CRM More than just Talk, Talk,Talk,Talk. (http://cradpdf.drdc.gc.ca/PDFS/zbb72/p510933.pdf)

Leadership in the Canadian Forces. (www.cda-acd.forces.gc.ca/cfli/engraph/leadership/doc/DND_Conceptual_e.pdf)

[Uncle Ginsters]

Sorry, i don't have a link, but the transcript/FDR of the USAF C5 crash is a real CRM eye-opener - i think it's in the public domain now (somewhere:confused:)

some info here : http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123021742

[jacqueline]

Thanks to all of you who have given me a little insight into a captains mind and also some good material to use on my crm classes.

any crm issues that you feel would be useful, please keep them coming!:D

[Ignition Override]

A Captain needs to manage the overall situation, by delegating a large amount of authority. As for CRM, others have said "Leave our egos in the car".
Managing does not mean controlling everything. I basically say "Let's abort up to 80 knots for most things, above only for an engine failure, and let's do anything to avoid a trip to the Chief Pilot's office or to 'another city' for a major de-brief." :uhoh:

As a bare minimum in good weather with no fatigue issues or serious MEL limitations, it can equate to only making sure that flows, checklists are done, we question blocked radio calls, or unclear altitude clearances etc (ANYTHING). Near bad weather, have we switched on the radar before takeoff and looked in the direction of our departure?... even asking the FO at the gate whether he/she would add at least an extra 1,000 lbs. of fuel when weather is near either (IAH yesterday) airport etc, and you hope that each pilot suggests deviating around weather in the opposite direction, if needed, and maybe by another 10 degrees or so etc. We were less than five minutes from returning to the gate to refuel, and on the entire 2:20 leg through good weather after the first 20 minutes, were ready to divert (OMA, RST) if any delays were encountered, landing not much above my minimum fuel amount.

And never let both (or all three, if you are that fortunate) pilots focus on only one small part of the operation. If unfamiliar,Read up on the Eastern 1011 crash in the Everglades.
Earnest Gann's "Fate Is The Hunter" applies to jets, whether FMC-equipped or not.:uhoh:

If you intercept the localizer about 20 miles from the airport (RDU) and a line of weather is moving in from the left with chop increasing to solid, moderate intensity, the closer you get to the outer marker, one pilot flies and the other pilot needs to suggest to the other that one option is to break off the approach and consider either going to CLT etc, or getting away from the airport and find out how fast the wx is moving, then going in from the opposite direction. Suggest another possibility, when plenty of fuel is onboard for a suitable alternate.

Speak up, tell the Captain about other options, when you are becoming uncomfortable with any situation. And ask the Flight Attendants to tell us in plenty of time if anything needs attention: i.e. if the lavs stink or water pressure is low (with the APU supplying a pack), and that I will back them up to deal with any problem passenger. THIS summer will be interesting.

[DHC6to8]

Good question... I would say that a good captain is somebody who is a good pilot and can manage the job/others/and all the other little things that come into play during the complete day.... not too friendly, yet not to overbearing. I personally make it my endeavour to allow the 1st officers that I fly with to make their own decisions, inputs, ideas, wishes, and questions forward without fear. I love to see a 1st officer gain confidence and apply what they have learned on every single sector. I learned with grumpy old farts who used to clip us behind the ears when we made mistakes.... and I think that one of the greatest contributions I can offer is to give "space" enough for my crew to get the job done within limits of the SOP's at their own speed and decision. In 14 years of applying this theory I can safely say that a good 25+ 1st Officers have graduated to Captain rank with the same attitude and direction....and hopefully the cycle will continue...
'Balance' is a key factor... not only in the flightdeck but in everyday life..
6to8

[pakeha-boy]

The superior Captain

The superior Captain ,is one who stays out of trouble by using his superior judgement to avoid situations which might require the use of his superior skills.

I live by this...PB

[Centaurus]

I learned with grumpy old farts who used to clip us behind the ears when we made mistakes....

I sincerely hope you had the balls to thump these clowns back as this is the only way they will learn to keep their hands to themselves.

[Mach trim]

For your CRM class use Capt. Al Haynes United Airlines Flight 232, Sioux City.
You know it but that is an example of a good Captain

[john_tullamarine]

I learned with grumpy old farts ..

As did I .. I was part of a small group of chaps on the PPL course .. the instructor was fond of telling us once, letting us get it wrong once .. and then whacking us over the back of the head with a rolled up newspaper .. not PC, by any stretch of the imagination .. but we sure did learn quickly .. first solo ranged from about 4 hours to 7 hours .. with one slow learner who took about 11 hours (but he obviously had a thick skull and was impervious to the newspaper technique of imparting knowledge and wisdom ...).

I've lost track of most of the guys now but there were some notable interesting careers .. one is a QF 744 captain who must be thinking about retirement by now .. one the present PAC in the RAAF ... a couple went into the forces/airlines as pilots .. and I amuse myself these days moderating in PPRuNe ... as, and when, playing management tunes doesn't interrupt too much ...

.. and much the same experience in airlines ... as a young buck, the captains whom I treasured were those who demanded a high standard from themselves and their crews while, at the same time, being very goal oriented and purposeful ... not quite in the league of newspaper whacks on the back of the head but it certainly fostered the learning spirit ..

I guess that the "good" GOF is distinguished from the "bad" GOF by virtue of his/her intent, drive, mentoring, reasonableness of how hard the newspaper is wielded .. etc ..etc ..

[jacqueline]

Ive Got That Video Clip, Thanks.

[NorthernSkySailing]

Sorry, Centaurus, but I disagree... You wrote

[a good captain does not...] Have his hands "hovering" over the flight controls under the pretext of "guarding" them

A good commander will guard the controls at all critical stages of flight. So will a good co-pilot, though less strictly, and with different things in mind.

[NorthernSkySailing]

In response to the post some way above...

Hmmm, think through Sioux City and ask yourself what could have been done differently. I don't wish to discredit the crew there (they achieved a remarkable outcome), but things could have been done a lot better.

[BOAC]

.....we wait with bated breath...............

[NorthernSkySailing]

BOAC,

As a new user here I appreciate your warm and welcoming response, so typical of the kindly moderation here.

If you read my previous post, and then research the event, you might come to some conclusions. For example, when something's gone substantially wrong with the aeroplane, it might be nice to work out what it is? Did the crew achieve that aim? Did they even set out on a path to achieve it? Did they rush to a conclusion or take time to resolve their difficulties?

I say again, loud and clear, they achieved a remarkable outcome, but was it perfection..?

Or perhaps this forum doesn't entertain considered, thought-provoking posts from people who know what they're talking about?

[john_tullamarine]

NorthernSkySailing ... I suspect that my colleague was endeavouring only to inject a smile into the discussion. Sometimes our best endeavours in such things are less successful than we might have expected ...

However, seeing you claim competence - I note that your profile doesn't give much away regarding your background - and given

(a) the general interest in the DC10 control problems at Sioux City

(b) our very real interest in seeing tech log used for spirited technical discussion and education

could I invite you to put some specific comments to the group and let's see what sort of discussion might ensue .... ?

Certainly, in hindsight, the possibility of additional resources might have been useful .. chase plane inspection ? tech input via radio re phugoid characteristics (Haynes freely admitted he had never heard the term previously ..) ? From his lecture video (AIAA ?) I recall his saying that they gave very active attention to enlisting quite a range of third party resources .. not to mention all the serendipitous co-incidences which served to provide a pretty good setup for the rescue operation.

I think some polite but spirited discussion on the subject might prove to be quite illuminating ....

[Confabulous]

Perfection may prevent us learning something important. Lessons are learned from things going wrong, and aviation is an excellent example of that. Striving for perfection is important, but falling short of perfection really opens our eyes. Perfection also means that there are no more lessons to be learned. As we all know, in aviation that's physically impossible.

For instance, Al Haynes gave a series of talks and lectures about the Sioux City accident. The captain of DHL A300 OO-DLL was at one of them. A few years later a missile hit OO-DLL's left wing and destroyed the hydraulics along with part of the left wing. Because of Hayne's talk, the captain knew what to do. That flight ended safely despite the extremely serious control problems, even including a go-around while on fire.

Again, we learn through mistakes, not perfection. I could list hundreds of advances that come from the former, and very few from the latter.

[parabellum]

Hands hovering over the controls by the PNF is a big No No, very disconcerting and totally unnecessary, feet lightly on the pedals and hands on one's knees is quite sufficient for all cases, including incapacitation.

NorthernSkySailing - 20/20 hindsight is both marvelous and useless. Perhaps you could give us some concrete evidence to support your theory that the Sioux City DC10 crew could have done a lot better? Personally I believe that the result was about as good as it gets, from humans.

[Old Smokey]

I believe that the result was about as good as it gets, from humans.

Then, even after considering the "from humans" caveat, it WAS about as good as it gets.:ok:

Given the present state of development of automated flight control systems, with the total and irrevocable loss of all Normal, Standby, and Emergency systems, the computer's response would have been "Does Not Compute - GAME OVER.

Some day, maybe, Flight Control programmes may extend to "Last Ditch" techniques as used by the Sioux City DC-10 crew. When that happens, the programmes will be written by HUMANS. I hope that these humans are up to Al Haynes' standard.

Regards,

Old Smokey

[Dream Land]

hands on one's knees For a Boeing that's fine, firmly around the joystick for Airbus.


NorthernSkySailing, why not start another thread to make your points?

[Mach trim]

Northen Lights are you a wind up artist?

Please do not insult Al Haynes and the survivors as it is amazing that it was not a complete catastrophe

You would like to debate it fair enough. Please tell us how it could be done better ?

Have you tried a total loss of all of all three of the DC-10's redundant hydraulic systems caused by the uncontained disintegration of the No.2engine's fan rotor in the simulator.

Please enlighten me ?

Could someone who has actually tried this in the DC-10 simulator let us know how it worked out ?

Interested in hearing from some DC-10 guys on this

I dont know the DC-1O but it seems to me it would have been easy to lose complete control of the airplane.

The phugoids never became completely controllable.

Al Haynes
" the technique to dampen out the phugoids is to react opposite to what you think is normal.When the nose nose starts down and the airspeed builds up you have to add power......but the hardest part is when the nose starts up
and the airspeed starts to fall you have to close the throttles "
...unfortunately as the airplane came over the trees airplane began one of it's down phugoids.We were about 300 ft in the air and DC-10 decided it was going to start down.

The latest in error management is in admitting we make errors, trapping and mitigating not perfection

This is a good Captain

From the CVR, Sioux City


Sioux City: Radar contact.

UAL 232: So you know we have almost no controllability. Very little
elevator, and almost no ailerons, we're controlling the turns by
power. I don't think we can turn right, I think we can only make left
turns. ?? We can only turn right, we can't turn left.

[15:26]

Sioux City: United 232 heavy, understand, sir,you can only make right
turns?

UAL 232: that's affirmative.

[15:29]

Sioux City: 32 heavy, say souls on board, and fuel remaining.

UAL 232: We have 376, fuel ??

[15:32]

Sioux City: United 232 heavy, Sioux City.

UAL 232: Confirm we have no hydraulic fluid, which means we have no
elevator control, almost none, and very little aileron control. I have
serious doubts about making the airport. Have you got someplace near
there, that we might be able to ditch? Unless we get control of this
airplane, we're going to put it down wherever it happens to be.

:D:D:ok::)

They made the airport an example of extraordinary airmanship

Al Haynes

" If we had not worked together, with everybody coming up with ideas and discussing what we should do next and how we were going to do it. I doubt that we would have made it to Sioux City "

[Centaurus]

For a Boeing that's fine, firmly around the joystick for Airbus.

Sounds quite thrilling, actually....

[NorthernSkySailing]

Northen Lights are you a wind up artist?

Please do not insult Al Haynes and the survivors as it is amazing that it was not a complete catastrophe

You would like to debate it fair enough.

No.

I haven't insulted Al or anyone else - try asking him if he thought they did a perfect job.

[parabellum]

So you haven't got anything to support your claims then NorthernSky Sailing?

[Bedlamair]

Could someone who has actually tried this in the DC-10 simulator let us know how it worked out ?

For what it is worth, I tried it in the MD11 sim, OK in a cruise situation, all but impossible in an approach type fine manoeuvring situation. The opinion of the guys who seemed to be in the know about that part of the handling reckon he did as well as it is possible to do given what he had available.

[john_tullamarine]

For what it's worth .. in this forum, the moderation is very moderate .. and that is a conscious, intentional approach to the task.

However, we will, and do, edit that which does not fit with the basic site rules and other things which don't foster useful debate in this forum. If there be a problem with that, then an email to the powers that be is the appropriate avenue of complaint.

[swish266]

A Captain should:
:D Lead by example.
:D Not expect his crew to do something he doesn't like or can't do.
:D Never forget he started from the right and a PPL.
:D Offer comments only if the F/O has indicated they are welcome. Unless of course it's training.
:D Be humble enough to analyse his own mistakes for the benefit of the crew.
:D Adapt to his F/O's level of performance rather than expect vice-versa.
:D Be a Diplomat rather than a Dictator.
:D Involve/consult his crew about a decision, even if it is obvious his/her experience has led him/her to the right one.
:D Always be prepared to leave his mindset, even God made a few mistakes.

I can go on for a while but should be off to ZRH with an overexperienced lady F/O and a newly released young guy... I hope I do not forget any of the above...;)

[A37575]

with an overexperienced lady F/O

It's been my dream to meet one of those on an overnight....:ok:

[Orp Tolip]

Swish266 ,
I agree wholheartedly with all the points you've said except for
Offer comments only if the F/O has indicated they are welcome. Unless of course it's training.

As an F/O I was always willing to listen to any Captain and take on any suggestion on a different way of doing things. That way, I could evaluate what I was being told (or shown) and either file it for future reference or disregard it if it was inappropriate. I actively asked for feedback if something didn't go well, but even if I didn't I was always willing to listen and learn.

On my Command course I was told, in no uncertain terms, that I was now a Training Captain, (like it or not, and without the official status or Salary) as, day to day, I was going to be responsible for setting the example to the F/O's I was to fly with.

Now that doesn't mean that I interfere and interject all the time. In fact as an ex-instructor, I try to sit back and let the F/O make a mistake (as long as it isn't dangerous or likely to result in an MOR being filed against us).

For example, only a couple of weeks ago, the F/O was screwing up the CDA. I nudged him with a "We're a little high here" at about 9000' and again later downwind. To no avail we we're turned in, and simply couldn't get stable by 500". F/O called his own G/A, made an excellent job of the subsequent visual circuit. Needless to say we discussed the whole event for a few minutes during the subsequent turn around.

End result: The company lost a few £ worth of fuel, I had to make an apologetic PA to the PAX, and the F/O gained a whole heap of experience, both from making the mistake, and from the advice/de-brief afterwards. I'd like to think he learned more than had I 'told him' or shown him' what to do, but that really depends on the individual and their willingness to evaluate their own performance.

In this instance the F/O asked for the feedback, but he would have been told where he went wrong had he not asked, otherwise the whole event would have been worthless. If the F/O doesn't show willing to learn from his/her mistake they need at least to have it pointed out to them.

One other point to add to Swish's list.

:D A good Captain will watch and learn from the F/O. They fly with other Captains and might themselves teach me a thing or two. Also, they may have a fresh opinion on any situation, untainted by past experience, which could be better than my 'experienced' (and I use the word loosely) opinion.

Finally as an F/O I went through my phase of thinking I know it all.
Now as a Captain I realise I never will. ;)

[Pistonprop]

as an F/O I went through my phase of thinking I know it all.
Now as a Captain I realise I never will

:ok: Excellent Orp Tolip.

[Old Smokey]

To follow on from Orp Tolip's excellent comment, the sad part of becoming more experienced as a captain is the realisation that the gap between what I do know and what I would like to know is becoming wider every day.:uhoh:

Regards,

Old Smokey