BWA Go Bust

[moose hunter]

Sad news but BWA have today ceased all operations. Information is vague but the facts are that BAe have placed liens on all the ATP's which are now grounded in Aberdeen. This has caused a chain reaction with other aircraft lessors impounding the remaining 737's, one of which was already impounded at Stansted by Eurocontrol and the single 757 nabbed in Bournmouth by the airport operator.

Its a sad day for this once great airline. Hopefully they will re-emerge as they did last time in 1989(ish)

Regrets to the crews. :(

[sweety]

Thanx...

[The Guvnor]

I've just had confirmation of this - ops cease with effect from this evening; and First Charter's FNA flights have already switched to Monarch.

Condolences to all at BritWorld - what's the new game plan?

[ 13 December 2001: Message edited by: The Guvnor ]

[U R NumberOne]

Sorry Guv, no tricks - we got the same message a couple of hours ago. One ATP was on the ground at Aberdeen with the other two on their way back when I left. I understand the Scatsta flights will be operated by 146s tomorrow.

Sad news indeed - all the best to those affected.

[126.9]

Sorry folk! Been there more than once! :confused:

[Wig Wag]

Commiserations folks. Having been in your shoes some years ago I know how it feels.

I hope that those who recently left other jobs for BWA are offered their positions back.

[jetgirl]

Def true. The boys from the office downstairs are busy calling crews from standby to operate from ABZ in 146.

[Electric Sky]

Oh dear. I sometimes wonder why I work in this industry. There are few professions that are so volotile.

Good luck to everyone at BWA .... :(

ES ;)

[tilii]

Very sad news indeed. Many good people there to whom I offer my sincere condolences.

However, it is never over 'til the fat lady sings, and I think I'm right in saying that this company has traded out of similar difficulties in the past. After all, it does have its North Sea oil ops to fall back on. Surely any other company operating on BWA's contract with Shell is presently doing so merely on sub to BWA ... isn't it?

Good luck to all there. :( :( :(

[ 13 December 2001: Message edited by: tilii ]

[Scottie Dog]

BWA must have been one of our longer running airlines - until today. Such a shame to see yet another carrier go under.

Hopefully there may be a chance of the phoenix arising - according to an earlier posting. If so, I hope it is true.

What a bad time to get the news - just before Christmas. Best wishes to all who have lost jobs - not just here - but throughout the industry, whether it be flight crews of all categories or ground crew, and also the support staff in the back offices etc. I could go on for ever because the list is endless.

Good luck to us all in the future.

Scottie Dog
:( :( :(

[gingernutter]

I agree with Tilii, BWA or BAF as they were in the very good old days have seen a lot of troublesome times. If anyone can get through it, they will. However, it does not look very good for them because they don't seem able to make the cost cuts. My heart goes out to all the employees, I'm sure that sooner or later the aircraft will need to fly and you guys will fly them! Good luck . . . :mad:

[Wet Power]

Commiserations to all at BWA.

If it helps, get on the phone to GO first thing in the morning if you are 737 rated and to DHL (there is a new contact address somewhere I read recently) if you are 75 rated.

Best of luck.

[gingernutter]

Good on you, Wet Power. A positive attitude is needed ! To all you BWA guys, get on that phone now . . .

[Mr Angry]

JetGirl,

Who are the 'boys downstairs'; i.e. company name.

:confused:

[gingernutter]

Mr Angry, I'm not JETGIRL but I will reply on his behalf (BOH and SEN people are probably down the pub by now) the people downstairs is Flightline/Britishairlinemanagement.co.uk

happy landings . . . :cool:

[DrSyn]

Very sad news for an airline whose family tree goes all the way back to Taffy Powell's amazing Silver City Airways. My sincere commiserations to all concerned, although, as an eternal optimist, I would guess that the fat lady hasn't sung yet.

I gather that the noble Eurocontrol's charges and NJI's (on BWA's AOC) demise may have assisted a house-of-cards reaction. I wish you all the very best of luck.

[HugMonster]

Very sad news. My most sincere condolences to all @ BWA, not least to our own Hamrah, who in a short time managed so much there.

Gill were the second UK airline after BWA/BAF to emerge from Administration. And now another independent airline has gone down. The future is not looking good for the travelling public, for choice, for the independent entrepreneur, or for aviation generally in this country.

Much saddened this evening.

[Jumb0lin0]

I am extremely sorry. I guess there are some more chip fryers and electricity suppliers out of a job. (see NJI thread).
Aviation- who'd be in it.

"Don't tell my mother I am a pilot - She still thinks I am a piano player in a whore house" - Jumbolino :( :(

[Mister Geezer]

No ATP's on their 'usual' stands this evening at ABZ. :(

Best wishes to those at Brit World at this time.

[Agaricus bisporus]

Is this not a company with a long and illustrious pedigree in bankruptcies and subsequent revivals from the ashes?

Silver City, BAF, now BWA, next what?

I'll bet this is not the last we've heard of this outfit with possibly the longest traceable pedigree in British aviation. I hope not.

Sorry 'bout those jobs though, and lets hope the phoenix can pull it off one more time!

[flite idol]

How very, very sad. Have known a few folks over there who have just quietly and professionally got on with the job of aviation. I hope they can re-organise and continue the great job they have been doing. Best of luck.

[Brenoch]

Condolences to all at BritWorld...

[Zeppelin]

Yes, a very sad day, as a (ex)BWA Person i appreciate the sympthies expressed however....

There are a few so called aviation people who, if they have any decency, must be hanging their heads in shame

[ramsrc]

Sad news indeed.

I have fond memories of British World. A few years ago I was due to fly STN-FRA for a job interview. Turned up to find the aircraft was grounded by technical difficulties at another airport and the flight would be cancelled unless an alternative could be found.

That alternative was provided by a British World BAC 1-11 and a very professional and efficient crew.

Good luck to everyone involved.

[evolante]

This is bad news for a seriously nice bunch of folks.

Forgive the naivety, however ceasing operations isnt the same as in Receivership is it? Thus whilst there is life there is hope.

What about World Aviation Support the maintenance wing - how will that be affected - has an administrator been appointed as such? :confused:

[Master_Warner]

It's a sad day, another airline leaves us. I hope u all find work, keep smiling, specially all you ex-cabair 509ers

Good Luck

[jeffrice]

World Aviation Support as part of the BWA Group IS continuing to trade following a good financial year.

We customers with us at present and new work on the horizon so please watch this space!

[jeffrice]

Sorry for the bad english in my last post.

Should have read "We have customers".

World Aviation Support lives!

[dv8]

Keep your chins up
Best of luck finding new jobs
My guess, and its only a guess that the ATP operation will survive as who else can run the Shell contract out of ABZ?

[Frequent Flyer]

Sorry to hear the news, as an ex Chip Fryer from NJI, I worked with the guys in Ops and crewing alot and they are very competent bunch.

Best of luck. :confused:

[Ernesto]

Small point : is the code BWA or BWL ???

Rotten news and sympathy to the people affected.

[BOTFOJ]

...son of BWL has ALREADY been announced (not sure if it will be a Chinese Takeaway or an Curry House ;) ) up to 5 x 737-300 commencing next spring, run by same Chairman, goes by the snappy name of 'ASTRAEUS'

could be good news for all affected, lets hope so, (OK Hamrah?)

[Nickctaylor]

I have been watching BWA for some time as I have a friend working there. For what it is worth, and of no immediate use to staff/ex staff, it appears that BWA shares are still trading, so as someone else posted, there is a possibility of trading their way out.

[Small Pilot]

British World shares were actually suspended
this morning. Heres the announcement...


Official List
14 December 2001


NOTICE OF TEMPORARY SUSPENSION OF LISTING FROM THE OFFICIAL LIST

(856)

14/12/2001 09:15 AM

TEMPORARY SUSPENSION

BWA GROUP PLC

The Financial Services Authority ("the FSA") temporarily suspends the
securities set out below from the Official List effective from 14/12/2001
09:15 AM at the request of the company pending clarification of the
companys financial position.


Ordinary Shares of 0.5p each (0-436-898)(GB0004368980)
fully paid

If you have any queries relating to the above, please contact the Listing
Applications Team at the FSA on 020 7943 0333 (option 3).

END
NOTDGMMZLDFGMZG

[tilii]

BOTFOJ

Interesting news. Where did you get that info from? If it is true, it may well be good news for some. But is it legal?

[Will Smith]

Thanks for all the support but we have definitely ceased as a company,a great shame as 56 years of operation has come to an end.It was always a pleasure to go to work with a fantastic group of boys and girls, and I dont expect anything similar will happen again.So to all at BWA thank you and I wish everyone success in the future. ;) ;)

[BOTFOJ]

Tilii

Announced to their UK charter customers overnight.

As to whether its legal - dunno, but sounds like a lot of ground work has already been done.

[Billy the Kid]

Sad news and I hope there's money to pay off the employees.

After the Viscount, BWA dispensed with my services. It was a sad day and I miss greatly all the people I worked with during my time there. I still live locally and a great many people in the community will be effected.
In my career since, I have met a great many people who also started off at BAF, both pilots and engineers. Many of the local old folk remember with glee the adventures of the Keagan days, indeed as a boy at school you could hear the distinctive high pitch of the Rolls-Royce Darts as the Viscounts & Heralds dropped in on short finals for zero-six . In those juvenile times the sight of the planes overhead dropped the seeds of an aviation career into my soul. RIP
---------
I drove past the office earlier and observed boxes of files being removed. So I guess no 11th hour deal.
It was difficult to see how the present business could ever work and the chairman actually told me five years ago that he would never lease a modern jet due to costs! The current fleet did seem to be a little over-the-top for last minute ad-hoc charter. Compared the the ex Dan-air 1-11's, which was the deal of the century. I think they should have stuck to the night freight as Bread and Butter work and left the Pax stuff as the cream on top. How many times have we seen the lure of the shiny jets to be the kiss-of-death to these small-medium operators?

A final question. How are pensions affected by the sad news of the company's closure?

[ 14 December 2001: Message edited by: Billy the Kid ]

[Sidney Harberbridge]

BOTFOJ

Astraeus Limited was registered at Companies House on 17 January 2001, with it's registered office in Smallfield Surrey. Co. Secretary is listed as JH, same JH who was a Director of BWA.

[swashplate]

Very sorry to hear about BWL.... :(

Commiserations to all involed, esp Mr Hamrah.... :( :(

Still, there is always hope, and hope you all get something!!

[black beauty]

BOTFOJ

Re 'ASTRAEUS' I have also heard the same but where did they pick up their new customers???

[JB007]

I've never known an airline that carries so much affection.

Everyone i've spoken to has shown huge disapointment to the news.

[simfly]

Very sad news, worked alongside BWA crews and ground staff in Aberdeen for the last 2 years with the Scatsta operation, they are all a great bunch and I hope things are sorted out for them very soon. regards to all.

[Damon]

My sincerest best wishes go to all of you.

Having just been laid off myself by air 2000 I know how you feel.
I was in IPA office yesterday, the redundancy packs were being prepared and sent out to the BWA members you should receive them soon.
Airline contacts and fact files are available on the website www.ipapilot.com (http://www.ipapilot.com)

[voddie]

Dear BWA,

On behalf of two cabin crew trainers who have worked for the comapny for more than years than we care to remember (actually we do care to remember)we have had such a good time and worked with so many fabulous people ground and aircrew, we are so sad, gutted infact we dont't know what to do without you BWA, however we wish everyone the very best of luck in the future, and a very merry christmas to you all.

Best wishes to all

a special note
TO BRITISH WORLD AIRLINES - GOODNIGHT AND GODBLESS.

ALL OUR LOVE ALWAYS

KRIS THRELFALL
CLAIRE NICKELS

null

[Holt CJ]

Dear All

You must make of this what you will, I’m afraid:On 7 August 2000, a BWA Director resigned, allegedly after his attempts to have the company placed under administration were thwarted by fellow Directors;

On 20 October 2000, BWA’s Auditor resigned;

On 12 January 20001, another BWA Director resigned;

On 17 January 2001, that is 5 days after the second resignation above, a new Company was incorporated by registration at Companies House. The new Company was named as “Astraeus”. The Company’s “nature of business” was not specified. Its registered office was then 38 Gower Road, Horley, Surrey RH6 8SH;

On 1 February 2001, Astraeus’s Company Secretary and one Director resigned;

On 12 February 2001, two new Directors and a new Company Secretary were appointed at Astraeus;

On 23 February 2001, another BWA Director resigned;

On 4 October 2001, particulars of Astraeus’s Company Secretary and of two Directors were notified as changed, concomitant with notification of a change of Astraeus’s registered office to: (Crashy here - I've edited-out the name of an individuals private residence, Of course should anybody really have wish to find out more, then they can approach companies house themselves for it) ; and

On 10 December 2001, just four days ago, yet another BWA Director resigned. :eek: :eek: :eek:
I do not suggest for a moment that anything untoward or illegal has been done here. However, my heart truly goes out to all the loyal and dedicated employees who have given so much to BWA. I suspect you deserve much better than you have received. :( :rolleyes: :(

[ 14 December 2001: Message edited by: CrashDive ]

[davidbwa]

Five hours ago, I got the phone call from Southend. Having flown as cabin crew for BritWorld for just eight months, I already feel that I've lost a friend. We were a small, close family at Gatwick, highlighted at our end of season **** up just a few weeks ago where flight deck, cabin, and ground crew chatted, danced, and drank together as equals. I always felt that we woked together as a team, doing whatever it took to get the flights away and our customers happy. Talking to other crew today, there is a palpable sense of having lost something special.
To all the cabin crew I flew with, professional to the end, thanks for making flying such fun. To the flight deck, you've made our job so enjoyable, never too busy to explain how those shiny machines worked, and passing on your enthusiasm for flying. To Jim and Helen on the ground, coping with frequent delays and tech problems with humour and efficiency, thank you. To all those in Southend that found us interesting work, and who worked their behinds off to keep us going, thanks
To all of those who have posted messages of support, again thank you. Let's hope this is the last loss of jobs (however optomistic that may be). Let's hope the light at the end of the tunnel will soon be visible.
:( :p

[Flightrider]

Holt CJ

If you are adamant that nothing untoward or illegal has occurred, what exactly are you suggesting has happened?

[Holt CJ]

Flightrider

Tsk, tsk. I did not say that I am "adamant" that nothing untoward or illegal has occurred, merely that "I do not suggest" same.

As for what has happened, as I have already said above, you must make of the facts what you will. :rolleyes:

[The Guvnor]

I would say that this is looking like a rather planned failure - especially as the process of applying for an AOC and Operating Licence is one that takes anything up to a year.

Getting a company up and running with 5 x 737s by next spring is not something that happens overnight - and is certainly not something that could happen if the process was only started yesterday.

Some interesting legal aspects arise - and perhaps Holt CJ could advise on them: if it were known by directors of a company that their existing company was insolvent or about to become insolvent, and they were involved in a new company which was being in effect set up to continue the existing business without its liabilities, then (a) where would that leave them vis-a-vis the creditors (including employees) of the existing company - who must surely be in a weakened position; and (b) if business that should have gone to the existing company is, in fact, being channelled to the new company - is this legal?

Finally, should persons involved in such activities be allowed to act as CAA Postholders?

[Holt CJ]

Ah, my old friend,The Guvnor. Welcome to the fray. :D

You have placed your querying digit upon precisely the same points that I ponder myself.

Rest assured that I have on my rather thick spectacles and am delving into the relevant tomes as we speak. When I have arrived at an appropriately considered position, I will come back to you.

Meanwhile, I would enjoy hearing your own view on the questions you have put? ;)

[Dick I Natwat]

Lets not beat about the bush here a couple (maybe more) of sly bxxxxrds have shafted us big time for there own nice little cunning plan which is now coming to light.

[Moses Mashomba]

Guv, just because you couldn't set up an Airline up in three months doesn't mean that it can't be done, because it can.

[ 15 December 2001: Message edited by: PPRuNe Towers ]

[Holt CJ]

Good God, Moses (or is that Good Moses, God?), a little over the top don't you think? And possibly actionable. Wash your mouth out with soap! :rolleyes:


Dick I Natwat, I am still wiping the tears from my eyes. Are you Antipodean by any chance? :D :D :D

[ 14 December 2001: Message edited by: Holt CJ ]

[The Guvnor]

HoltCJ - as a layman, I'd suspect that if it was done to avoid liabilities one could be looking at criminal charges including fraud and/or conversion. The Companies Act 1985 (as amended) also has a few things to say on the subject.

It would also be interesting to see why the auditors resigned - especially as the company is a plc. Were they unable to certify it as a going concern? If so, that lays the directors open to charges of reckless trading, which of course has unlimited personal liability attached.

The CAA's Economic Regulation Group would generally look with great disfavour on persons knowingly involved with a manipulated financial collapse of a British airline - especially when it comes to the issue of an Operating Licence for any successor carrier.

Does anyone know yet whether the company has gone into Administration or Receivership? How much is the total known indebtedness? Who pulled the plug - the Board, or an action by a creditor?

Another question - it will be recalled from one of the many BWA/NJI threads that the person behind NJI claimed that he had bought into and/or was 'taking over' BWA. Is it perhaps the case that instead of BWA, he's actually involved with the new company? Who are the directors listed at Companies House?

For those interested in a definition of the legal term conversion:

From, 89 CJS -Trover and Conversion- Sec. 1 Conversion:

"Conversion is an unauthorized assumption and exercise of the right of ownership over goods or personal chattels [property]
belonging to another, to the alteration of their condition or the exclusion of an owner's rights...Any distinct act of
dominion wrongfully exerted over one's property, in denial of his right, or inconsistent with it."

The definition in Black's Law Dictionary, Electronic Edition, is identical to that above with the addition of this sentence:

"Any unauthorized act which deprives an owner of his property permanently or for an indefinite time."

Black's also defines "Fraudulent conversion":

"Receiving into possession money or property of another and fraudulently withholding, converting, or applying the same to or
for one's own use and benefit, or to use and benefit of any person other than the one to whom the money or property belongs."

In other words, if a contract should have accrued to a company but was diverted to another, then as I understand it, this would be conversion?


Moses Mashombe (aka Freeboot, Freenum, Napoleon, ZambAero etc etc) - you wouldn't know a genuine AOC or OL if it hit you on the head, so stay out of this, please.

[ 14 December 2001: Message edited by: The Guvnor ]

[Rivet]

It is a great shame this industry!
To see so many suffer, is so sad!
I wish you all the best from my heart, ive flown for you amd even trained some of you!
Good luck for the future! Im certain it will be brighter
Rivet
:)

[spud's on the job]

riveting stuff guys, but any chance of keeping it on one thread, getting sick of thread hopping here, :mad:
good luck to all at BWL

[Moses Mashomba]

Guv, what are you on about when you say, aka Freeboot, Freenum, Napoleon, ZambAero, are these some of your unfortunate previous business partners too ?!

So you can trust me, and where have I heard that before Neil ?, I'm not one of them ! :eek: ;)

[Holt CJ]

The Guvnor

I am inclined along the same path. I confess to having in the past avoided this area of the law through disinterest. It is becoming a little more interesting at present.

By the way, who is this semi-literate who seeks self-annihilation in a defamation suit? Presumably not a friend of yours? ;)

Edited for gobbledygook. That's it. I'm off to bed for now. I will tune in again tomorrow for the next exciting episode. Goodnight ladies and gentlemen ... oh, and Moses. :eek:

[ 14 December 2001: Message edited by: Holt CJ ]

[black beauty]

I believe BWA officially went into receivership this afternoon after a very long board meeting. Wouldn't like to even guess as to the total indebtedness. As for 'who pulled the plug' I'm not sure but there are quite a few people out there well and truly 'sunk' at the moment. :(

[The Guvnor]

Holt - a long standing cyberstalker that keeps getting banned for the sort of libellous statements/insinuations we see here(hence the long string of aliases) - doesn't seem to have cottoned onto the fact that people are readily identifiable by their IP addresses and language patterns!

Could you kindly email me the list of directors and shareholders on the Companies House records in the new company? My address is in my profile.

[ 14 December 2001: Message edited by: The Guvnor ]

[Moses Mashomba]

I'm sure that Neil would just love to go to court and have all his sordid past aired in public, wouldn't you Neil ? :eek:

[The Guvnor]

Sure. Leave your real name and domicilium citandi et executandi so I can have my lawyers serve you with a summons. Now, as BOTFOJ said on the other thread about this would you kindly stop trying to 7500 this one? :rolleyes: :mad: :rolleyes:

[Holt CJ]

With respect The Guvnor, I must not reveal my identity.

The information you seek is readily available from Companies House for a modest fee (a very few pounds). It can be quickly downloaded on the internet.

No offence intended here.

Until the morrow, then. :)

[black beauty]

Sorry! I must be on the wrong page. I thought this discussion was about BWA! :(

[Moses Mashomba]

Guv try: Santafé de Bogotá Colombia Calle 70 No. 6-22 and address it to Big Mo.

Please note though that the post, indeed the whole neighborhood, is awful, there's just so many reprobates and sharks, of course you'd fit right in, so I might have moved by the time anything from you gets here. ;)

[CrashDive]

I agree: Moses please don't wage your war on the Guv in this thread. As somebody effected by the last 24 hours, I'd like to see what's the gen on it.

That said, some people seem to think that it's ok to openly publish various private household addresses. Well I'm afraid that here on PPRuNe we've always taken a very dim view of that kind of thing. So I'll ask those that feel so inclind to desist, and I know that it's difficult / interesting times, but in any event I / we here at PPRuNe will pull any thread that contains information of a such personal nature.