Line Up Acronym

[camel toe]

Anyone got a good acronym when lining up in a light aircraft?

[smith]

Not really an acronym but works for me.

Lights, camera,action.

Lights= landing light on (if required)

Camera= transponder to alt (keeps an eye on you)

action= fuel pump on (if required)

Just came up with it myself and I know its a bit weak, but works for me. I also find a big black X on the back of my hand in marker pen reminds me to carry out all the checklists during the flight.

[camel toe]

Cheers, I already use LCA as I cross onto the active runway. Interestingly enough the Action part for me is to look down the extended centre line for traffic (which shouldnt be there of course).

I'm more after an acronym as I'm lined up. At the mo I look at the wind sock and adjust my into wind aileron, check the engine instruments and verify the correct runway by looking at the compass and the DI for confirmation of runway heading. I'm just seeing what else others do.

[robdesbois]

I don't use an acronym for line up & go, just repeat the vital actions my instructor has always said like a mantra:

line-up:
* DI-compass check
* check compass is correct for runway
* windsock
go:
* throttle to max
* check full rev's
* final T's & P's
* ASI 'coming alive'

[OpenCirrus619]

Lining up:
STRIP

Strobes - Turn on
Transponder - Switch to 'C'
Radio - Make call before entering active (if appropriate)
Instruments (Altimeter, Gyros and Engine)
Pitot Heat (if appropriate)


OC619

[tmmorris]

Must admit I just do 'pitot heat, transponder, strobes', and two of those (not strobes) are on the pre-takeoff printed checklist I do anyway - it's just that instructors have rightly told me not to turn any of those three on before I am ready to enter the active and take off, to avoid the associated problems.

Tim

[High Wing Drifter]

Basic and brief drill:-

RAPT:
Recog and Landing Lights On
Anti-collision Lights On
Pitot On
Transponder On

or ATPL:
Anti-collision
Transponer
Pitot
Lights (landing and recog)

Once lined up:-

CCC:
Crosswind (aileron)
Compass (runway heading)
Clock (start stopwatch)

Then the type specific t/o checks, etc.

[eyeinthesky]

SPLITT:

S trobes on
P itot Heat on
L anding Light(s) on
I nstrument checks (DI aligned and Ts & Ps etc)
T ransponder on
T ime

[Kit d'Rection KG]

Errr,

You could always do what the flight manual says..?

[Comanche250]

I find it interesting that no one up to yet has mentioned anything about flaps. I normally just do a flow check and go through Mixture (Rich), Prop (Fine), Lights (As Req.), Flaps (Where I want them to double check I didnt miss them on pre take-off checks) and Fuel (On, correct tank and pump on if there is one)

C250

[Pitts2112]

Oh, fer christ's sake...

Line up
Firewall it
Go

How bloody complicated do you people want to make this???? A checklist for taking the active? What next, a checklist for rotate, then a checklist for leveling off, followed by a checklist for...whatever...

If you're stopped on the active to do a checklist you're wasting everyones' time. If you don't have your stuff in one sock BEFORE you occupy the active runway, you need to rethink your departure process. You should cross the hold line ready to execute an immediate rolling departure. Anything else is pedantry and hogging the runway uneccessarily.

Pitts2112

[BA123]

You can use ATPL in another way aswell, but just before you cross the hold short line

A - approach is clear
T - transponder - ALT
P - pitot heat above 0, not required
L - landing lights and strobes on

[Comanche250]

Who said anyone was stopped while carrying out these checks? And how many holds do you know where it is possible to enter the runway straight away without a taxi, albeit a short one before lining up, incedentally just enough time to check that everything is where it should be? Its hardly complicated is it?

[mike172]

I've never done any formal 'line-up' checks before. Like somebody said before me, I just add full power and go. Lights, transponder, pitot heat, flaps and DI/compass are set in my pre-takeoff checks with the exception of checking the DI with the compass which is set after start.

[camel toe]

Thanks for the constructive input Pitts.

I personally think you are wrong as checking the correct runway is for the me the minimum of checks to do.

There have been fatal accidents at commercial level where the aircraft took off on the incorrect runway, if a check of the compass and/or DI had been performed the outcome may well have been less tragic.

[High Wing Drifter]

Pitts,
How bloody complicated do you people want to make this????You've been hanging around these parts long enough to know that the length of a PPRuNE thread is inversely proportional to the complexity of the subject :}

[fireflybob]

With the amount of traffic at many airfields now "runway occupancy" is an important factor.

In my opinion when you take the runway you line up and roll without delay unless there is some overriding safety reason not to do so.

What gets me are the ones that line up and then sit there on the runway doing their "Hail Marys" for 20 - 30 secs before rolling and then cause the next one on the approach to have to go around!

I am not totally against acronyms but what happened to "common sense" and airmanship?

[camel toe]

I must be being taught wrong then, as everyone one of my instructors has taught me checks to do, both on the ground and in the air. I've even been made aware that I should call out my checks when doing them in the test as otherwise the examiner presumes you have not done them.

I asked a simple question to see if anyone had a quick acronym on the line up, but as I must be holding up all that traffic on final I will from now on go and then just hope I'm on the correct runway and that the plane will sort itself out with any cross wind as apparently I am wasting others time by looking at the wind sock.

It's intersting to see that what one considers "Good Airmanship" others consider "Bad Airmanship".

Camel Toe
"Over Macho Grande?"

[Over_Shoot]

I have always been told from the off that I should be thinking three or four steps ahead of the aircraft.

Therefore contemplating whether I am on the correct runway once I have already continued from the hold is asking for trouble.

Personnally I've already thought about wind, runway, checks etc before I even call for departure, including what I will do if I have an engine failure during or shortly after take off. I am then free to enjoy the flight without having to work my backside off when there really is no need to.

OS

[camel toe]

Overshoot, do you not think it good airmanship to glance at t's and p's prior to setting take off power? After all, it would be better to spot an anomoly now, rather than at say 300ft agl.

[fireflybob]

camel toe, ts and ps should be checked after take off power has been set, then if anything is awry you close the throttle and abandon the take off.

Regards checking the heading to confirm the correct runway - yes, this is a good airmanship check but can easily be accomplished while you are turning to line up. Matters such as crosswind and where to put the aileron should all have been thought of well before lining up.

[High Wing Drifter]

Camel Toe,

Common sense is a nebulous concept, Airmanship is an extension of common sense. Things change, distractions are ever present, **** happens and assumptions are dangerous. Nothing wrong with your approach, a quick awareness check takes a second and a half.

[Knight Paladin]

Pitts - spot on!

Some aircraft will have "Runway Checks" listed in their FRCs, some elements of which can be done as you taxy onto the active, and some that must be done brakes-on as you're lined up pointing down the runway. However, I can't think of any GA type that has runway checks listed - it's all taken care of in one set - the pre-takeoffs. I can understand people wanting to leave certain items until they're just about to take-off, but they can easily be switched as you line up on the runway. As was said before, being sat static on the runway at a busy airfield, doing checks you could have easily done as you lined up, really is very poor form. In my humble opinion!

And as for everyone preaching airmanship .... get over yourselves guys! Sitting on the runway doing things you could've thought about before you got there is not good airmanship! You really should be able to check it's the correct runway and have a think about the wind and EFATO options before you enter the runway!

[Final 3 Greens]

On lining up, check DI heading agrees with runway heading (1/2 second), quick full and free check of the yoke/stick (2-3 secs), check runway is clear (1/4 second) and then go.

Less than 5 seconds to sanity check three items that have killed pilots, whilst there is still time to stop the flight.

When rolling, monitor T&P, airspeed indication, acceleration and be prepared to stop, if unhappy with any.

[robdesbois]

f3g - full and free is surely a check to be done at the hold not on the r/w, and I personally always check approaches and r/w clear before entering - but can't harm to check it once more before pelting down it :}

[Final 3 Greens]

rob

Follow the link to see one example of where a quick stir on the controls on the runway would have saved a life.

http://www.caa.govt.nz/Accident_Reports/ZK-SHG_Fatal_02Jul2003.pdf

Still, its a matter of personal choice I guess.

[robdesbois]

I'd still disagree with the inference there that it is necessary to check full and free after line up instead of at the hold.

In this situation I'm assuming that there's a difference due to it being a tug - not holding short of the r/w so the hold checks would be performed then I guess.

[Pitts2112]

Cameltoe,
You can go and throw your toys out of your pram if you want, but you asked a question on an open forum and you have gotten some excellent input. You may not agree with it all (and, frankly, I don't agree with it all, either) but when you've got 500 hours under your belt, come back and read this thread, and then decide if you still disagree with me or not. In other words, you're being taught a very pedantic way to fly, which is as it should be, but real-world experience in light aircraft flying in the UK will teach you much different lessons. The answer you got from me was based on experience, not the Trevor Thom books or the view of a particular instructor who's being measured on his adherence to procedures

Yes, if you take position on the runway, stop, and then commence a checklist, you are wasting time on the most valuable and limited resource an airfield has. Show respect for all the other users and minimise your time there. That's dealing in the real world, not training land. You can get pissy about it if you like, but that's reality. It's an unwritten contract amoungst pilots that while you have the runway, it's completely and entirely yours, and everyone will respect that 100% and let you do what you need to do for as long as you need. Your part of that contract is to make most efficient use of your time there. Checking things that you've checked before or you should know before you cross the hold is wasting time on the runway.

At the end of the day, I guess I get frustrated by pilots who try to complicate this hobby of ours. One of my biggest frustrations is people who fly by numbers but don't really understand why. A typical symptom of this approach is an over-reliance on checklists, because they can't think their way through their situation. It's expected of students, but not of experienced pilots, and I hadn't appreciated your situation in my original response.

Comparing our environment to what happens in "commercial aviation" is not terribly relevant and just serves to overcomplicate a very simple light aviation model. If you're flying a C152 out of Heathrow, mixing it up with 747s and the like, then you may have need for more complex checks, but for anything else, try to simplify your flying, not complicate it. A few key check items and a sharp mind that is ahead of the airoplane is far more valuable than a binder full of checklists, graphs, and the like.

Come on down to Popham some time and I'll show you what I mean over a coffee at the clubhouse/hold for runway 26.

Pitts2112

[High Wing Drifter]

TO: Pitts
CC: Camel Toe

I agree with you in principle, but what worries me is experienced people telling inexperienced people how to fly. I am inexperienced but I can see that the art of aviation is an organic process, you simplify as you learn because you can only simplify when you truely understand the problem. I don't believe this process should be shortcutted (is that a word?) and thus Camel Toe should stick with her/his training until the point where she/he has the experience and expertise to develop her/his own solutions and methods in line with accepted practice and operational requirements. To me the nature of this reasonable question suggests that she/he is not at that point yet.

However, I think it is reasonable to say how one approaches these things, but some of the other posts are basically implying that if she/he doesn't do it a certain way then she/he shouldn't be flying, makes me uncomfortable does that.

Just my two peneth worth :ok:

[aluminium persuader]

Call me pedantic, but I assume you're actually talking about
mnemonics here! :E

ap

[Knight Paladin]

Pitts - Once again mate, spot on!

[robdesbois]

HighWing - the phrase 'nail on the head' springs to mind. As a PPL student I'm personally not yet at the stage where what may be common sense to a 200hours pilot comes naturally, hence I currently rely on checklists, although where possible use it to check what I've done instead of reading straight from it.

aluminium - spot on :}

[Pitts2112]

HWD and Robdesbois,

I agree entirely with you both and had I realised that Cameltoe was still a stude, my first post would have been different. I've found that there is always 1 more opinion than there are people in a discussion (there's always one joker with two views!) and my ability to sort the wheat from the chaff has only increased with my own experience. As a student and new PPL, I didn't have the wherewithall to question anything I was being told by anyone, but as I learned through my own experience, that ability has continued to grow (and long may it do so).

What I was responding to in my last was Cameltoe's attitude toward the replies, which was a rather childish "I'll just do what you tell me and take no responsibility for the outcome and if I crash it'll all be your fault" which was both an overdramatisation of the situation and a rather poor attitude for a student to take when receiving the benefit of experience he actually asked for in the first place.

The real issue is with a PPL syllabus that teaches flying by rote memory and procedure more than thought process and analysis, but there's nowt I or Cameltoe can do about that.

Pitts2112
And I was serious about the offer to host CT at Popham.

[Piltdown Man]

What a nifty thread! But if you go back to the very beginning, what REALLY needs to be done when you line up? The answer to that question should drive the final outcome. If it is as Pitts2112 suggests, not alot (I have to say I'm on his side here), then the answer is not alot. But I'm sure some aircraft (although I'm at a loss here as I can't name any) have to have things done just before they roll and when that is the case, the manufacturer's documentation will provide the answer.

PM

[High Wing Drifter]

But I'm sure some aircraft (although I'm at a loss here as I can't name any)The Seneca has bit of a twiddley process involving 2000 rpm checking MAP and fuel flow. Turbos in general are easier to handle if you at least 'spool up' a bit on the brakes. The sperate issue of type specific stuff was made near the top of the thread.

[Megaton]

Interesting thread. Someone mentioned commercial aviation but, in reality, there's actually far fewer "line-up check" on an Airbus than some here would advocate for C150!

BA SOPs for line-up are:

Cabin-crew signal - given
Flaps - set
Lights set

First one is obviously irrelevant but the second two are important. Entering the runway you should not be distracted by doing control or other checks which are best completed in the run-up area. However, flap selection, which is easily forgotten, can easily kill you so should be checked. Lights, as a courtesy and warning to others, should be left to lining-up. Finally, pitot heat should be selected on at this point.

I would therefore advocate:

Lights - on
Flaps - set
Pitot heat - on

Checking ts & ps, wind etc should not be part of a checklist at this point but are airmanship. You do not use a check list when turning the aircraft or climbing or descending so why would you use one when rolling down the runway?

[Kolibear]

'Our Father, who art.....' works for me.

[Knight Paladin]

Apologies for going slightly off-topic...

Ham - I couldn't speak for your commercial experience, but on the military side of the fence there are a few more "runway checks" than for GA. As in there are actually runway checks....

[S-Works]

Oh my god.....

Pitts... :ok:

[Final 3 Greens]

Ham Phisted

Interested in your comment that "Finally, pitot heat should be selected on at this point."

Most of the GA aircraft I flew were swung with the pitot heat on and the effect on the compass could be quite significant, so the "off" reading would tend to be wrong.

So, aren't you leaving it a bit late to switch the pitot on at line up? (Obviously for most VFR flights in good VMC maybe not a major issue, but if were are generalising, should we not consider this?)

Funnily enough, I never check the flaps settings on the runway, as I have set them during the pre takeoff checks on my type, but one reason I'll very quickly "stir" the controls on the runway (not whilst entering) is that flap extension is after control checks on the checklist and I like to make sure that the ailerons still move freely, as I am aware of flap runner (and other) failures that have baulked them.

Still a good thing to consider though, as a quick glance should be all that's needed.

[Megaton]

Agreed. So you would advocate driving round the airfield with pitot heat on? Whilst lining up I check that my DI is correct for the runway I'm using which, as you correctly point out, is only valid with the pitot heat on.
One thing that everyone can learn from this is that there is no right or wrong answer. I would agree that the threshold is not the place to be f@rt-@rsing around with checklists or, indeed, lengthy mnemonics!

[High Wing Drifter]

Ham,
You do not use a check list when turning the aircraft or climbing or descending so why would you use one when rolling down the runway?
Agreed. My interpretation is that as the poster was asking for an acronym, then they intended the use of memory items as "checks" rather than "checklists".

[Final 3 Greens]

Agreed. So you would advocate driving round the airfield with pitot heat on?

Of course not, but I would like to set my DI correctly against the compass BEFORE entering the runway and then check alignment with the runway before taking off.

Rather defeats the point otherwise, doesn't it?

PS. I am assuming a simple aircraft with a simple DI and no slaved HSI, thus requiring manual alignment.

[Knight Paladin]

OK, this is getting beyond a joke now....

[Megaton]

OK then we check that TCAS is clear, tray tables stowed, MCDUs selected, wx radar on, flaps, lights, cabin crew signal given , brake fans (where fitted) off and nothing on finals. :)

[Final 3 Greens]

There's no need for sarcasm HamPhisted.

My point is that pitot heat on is not a runway check, memory or checklist.

[Megaton]

Negative checklist. Airmanship.
I've just looked back at what I wrote and the intention wasn't to suggest leaving pitot heat until lined-up. I had meant to imply that lights flaps etc are done at/before/whilst crossing (delete as applicable) the holding point.

note to self: remember to proof read before pisting.

[robdesbois]

I've never had to use pitot heat yet, and haven't got my POH in front of me but from memory I believe that pitot heat is the LAST item on the checklist, after the DI-compass check at both startup and hold...next time I'm in I'll check its effect on the compass - of course, it'll vary per type, but interesting if it is that way round..

[Final 3 Greens]

I've just looked back at what I wrote and the intention wasn't to suggest leaving pitot heat until lined-up

Fair enough.

[Final 3 Greens]

robdebois

I see that you are a PPL student and probably your instructor hasn't discussed this with you yet.

It's not something I learned on my PPL, but an experienced pilot taught me some time afterwards.

In my experience (and I only have a few hundred hours, so that's not so much compared to others around here) the effect varies between individual airframes (or compasses?) and can be as little as a few degrees up to many.

Out of interest, I have a PA28-161 Cadet checklist here (3rd party supplier, so not approved) and it says pitot heat on, then set Di.

[camel toe]

Firstly thanks for the input coming in, a lot of what has been said makes damn good sense (I guess a suitable reply to my initial post could be KISS), and I do try and plan ahead and we do brief for EFATO and have a glance at the sock while at the hold. I already complete a mental list of LCA (as I have already said) as soon as I have been given my clearance for take off or to line up on the runway.

As I'm sure many other students feel, while lining up, that 2 seconds before going I often think "have I forgotten something?", now I appreciate that this will gently disappear as I get more experience, but what I was looking for was do others use a last final check before rolling? I do like the compass/DI check for correct runway (as while I am familiar with my home airfield, as I venture further away I believe this is a valid check).

Pitts while I appreciate your input could you amend your post as you have incorrectly quoted me as saying "I'll just do what you tell me and take no responsibility for the outcome and if I crash it'll all be your fault".

Ham Phisted, I get what you are saying with regard to no checklists for climbing and descending, but I have been taught checks to do during a climb (I wont go into these), but there are various acronyms taught to the PPL to remember these. I imagine after a few hunded hours these become second nature, but a nifty way of remembering them does help. I was just seeing if anyone had such a thing for the second or 2 prior to take-off, which again after a few hunderd hours would become a "second nature flow check".

And finally just out of interest Ham Phisted, do you know if the BA SOP has a check of the correct runway? Is this done by checking the correct hold?

Cheers
Camel Toe
"Over Macho Grande?"

[Megaton]

You asked about how we know we're entering the correct runway?
Currently being notam'ed at, I think, all the airports in the UK we go to, is that runway entry points must be read back ie "Speedbird 123 cleared to line up and wait 27R via A1."

We (should:\) also check heading as we line up and ensure it cross-checks with aerodrome data; however, I'd be lying if I said I did it every time. In low-visibility procedures we tune the ils and use it to assist in the ground roll.

ps for info, my background was originally GA with 500+ hrs before airline work. My day job before flying was aircraft engineer (not that you could guess from most of my posts!).