Flying to Spain in my Bonanza

[stuartforrest]

I am embarking on the longest journey as a PPL (apart from flying the plane back from Berlin when I purchased it) on the 29th of May to fly to northern Spain, somewhere north of Barcelona and wondered if anyone has any useful advice in respect of routing from Guernsey or Jersey where I am going to stop for fuel down to Spain.
In particular are there any good routes to avoid restricted airspace which there seems to be plenty of (and may be active as we are going on a weekday).
Also does anyone know any good airfield in North East Spain near to Barcelona (within about 100 miles) that will save me a pesata or two in landing and parking fees for a week or indeed what charges are like at Barcelona.
I am only IMC rated so I guess the flight will be a little more complicated than if I had an IR.
Any help would be appreciated.

[IO540]

I've sent you a PM with some trip writeups.

The west coast of France is a restricted area (R31A1, etc) which I believe is active Mon-Fri, and you can get its status on the first call to any French ATC unit as you approach France. If active, switch to Plan B which would be an inland route. But the coastal route (roughly, from slightly below La Rochelle) is really nice and can be flown at any level if the said RA is inactive.

Refuelling at San Sebastial is preferable to Biarritz as you can get tax free avgas in Spain if the aircraft is limited company owned and you have evidence, such as an AIR BP fuel card in the company name. The city is also arguably a lot nicer than Biarritz which is like Bognor Regis with designer shops :)

Watch out for the nuclear power station TRAs!!

Get the current 1:1M SIA charts for France. The 1:500k IGN charts are nice but go to ~5000ft only which leaves out the FL065+ routes which are often the easiest way to fly distances in France.

[stuartforrest]

I have not got the PM yet?

[172driver]

There are a couple of fields you can use close to Barcelona (which itself is closed to VFR traffic anyway).

In NE/SW order:

Ampuriabrava (LEAP) small field by the sea

Girona (LEGE). Been there a couple of weeks ago, friendly, no hassle. Only thing is you may be in the hold for a few minutes to let a gagle of RYRs in/out, it's one of their bases.

Sabadell (LELL) is the closest you'll get to Barcelona itself. If you go there, make sure you program all the VRPs of the transit/arrival route(s) into you GPS beforehand. If you're unfamiliar with the area, they can be a bit challenging to find.

Reus (LERS) south/west of Bareclona, nice small airport.

Landing fees at all AENA airports are the same, something like EUR 10.-, not sure about the parking fees (the a/c I fly are on 'credito central', i.e. central company billing, so I don't get to see these fees in detail, but they're cheap). The entire Spanish AIP can be found here (http://www.aena.es). A flight plan is mandatory for any flight in Spain. One word of warning: should the America's Cup take your fancy and you decide to have have a look - don't fly to Valencia (LEVZ). Not only is there a pre-booked slot system in operation during the cup (7 days' notice), you will also have to park on a remote stand and use handling to get to the terminal. Expensive exercise.....

I'm sure IO540 will tell you all there is to know about France. Just to ease your mind, while the airspace looks daunting, ATC is a breeze and let you do almost anything you want. The trick is to stay high, as most of the R and P areas don't extend very much vertically. Crossed the length of it recently and found it very easy.

[sternone]

Slightly offtopic but i alway's wanted to ask a bonanza owner: Dont' you hate it that the A36 have no certified de-icing ?

[dublinpilot]

I did this trip last year from Dublin. We stopped off at a few places along the way. We Jersey-Dinard-Poitiers-Bordeaux-Toulouse-Periginian-Genona-Reus.
Far too many stops, but we had a few pilot on board who had never flown to Europe before, so I wasnted to give them all a good introduction.

That route avoids much of the restrictions. There are plently of military routes on the French charts, but they are mostly below 1500ft AGL, only active on certain days or nights of the week, and for limited periods. There is some strange airspace around Toulouse (changes depending on whether another airport is open or not), but none of this is very difficult at all, if you've any experience of flying into large airports at all.

Sticking to the bigger airports ensured we could speak English. Do make sure the check the notams, as sometimes ATC close during airport opening hours. For example Poitiers had no ATC for most of the day that we were going there. No big deal when we knew about it, but might have come as a surprise otherwise!

You will need filght plans for the flight between France & Spain, so don't forget ;) Having that IFRVFR phone number came in very handly for us, because Perpignan lost our flight plan, but the very helpful man on that phone line, said he could see it in the system, and faxed it to Perpignan again. Otherwise Perpignan wanted us to put a new flight plan in and wait one hour :rolleyes:

You will also need flight plans for any internal Spanish flight which goes into controlled airspace, or an ATZ. As virtually all airports in Spain are surrounded by controlled airspace or an ATZ, this means you'll need a flight plan for vitually every flight.

Don't buy the Spanish ICAO charts. They are CRAP. I am not a fan of the Jeppesen charts, and always avoid them, but if going back to Spain, I'd definately get the Jeppesen ones before the Spanish ICAO ones.

Barcelona airport isn't open to VFR traffic. IFR only.

Reus is the one we used, and it was very cheap. Landing and parking for 4 days cost us €31.56 in total for TWO aircraft. So less than €16 each ;) Is is a long way from Barcelona though.

dp

[dirkdj]

In France you can fly airways below FL115 under VFR. Avoids most of the restricted areas.

Sternone: you can have known-icing certified TKS installation on A36, uses two pumps instead of one, more paperwork, double the price.

[IO540]

The best summary I know of flying in France is here

http://flyinfrance.free.fr/

The "airways" are not airways in the UK sense; they are just lines on the chart, in Class E mostly, occassionally Class D or A, and one can fly them up to about FL105 VFR. Above that its all Class D (or higher) and one can do that VFR too (a popular method with > 2000kg owners ;) ) up to about FL195, but I found VFR clearances above FL105 take a while to get and last time I gave up. They are not necessary anyway unless trying to get to VMC on top.

ATC transits through bits of Class D on these routes are a doddle IME.

The "airways" also get used as real Eurocontrol IFR routes, but that's not relevant here.

[sternone]

Sternone: you can have known-icing certified TKS installation on A36, uses two pumps instead of one, more paperwork, double the price.

Not as a factory option!

[stuartforrest]

This is all great information thankyou and I will study my charts tonight. I think I have the ones that IO540 suggested.

Yes de-icing is a total problem often for me in the Bonanza. People told me I would never need it but I can honestly say it would give me huge comfort on many flights that it is there as a backup. One day I may get it added. Not sure how much it costs but I did look once and I think it was as much as £30k.

Can you get car hire from Reus then. It sounds great and we are not going to Barcelona anyway. It is north of there. Girona also looks good. Has anyone been there?

[172driver]

Has anyone been there?

Did you read my post ? And yes, you can rent easily from there.... cars that is.

[sternone]

Yes de-icing is a total problem often for me in the Bonanza. People told me I would never need it but I can honestly say it would give me huge comfort on many flights that it is there as a backup. One day I may get it added. Not sure how much it costs but I did look once and I think it was as much as £30k.

And for that £30k, is it then certified for known icing ? It was a deal breaker for me on the Bonanza... i can't understand why they don't give it as a factory option, in my opinion icing is much more of a treath than engine faillure....

[stuartforrest]

No I dont think it is certified either.

Sorry yes I did read your post. How about Girona. Can you get cars there and for either airport would you need to book cars in advance or are there desks?

[LH2]

Re. LEGE (Girona), be aware that last weekend there was a NOTAM out restricting parking of light a/c only to those with an outbound flight plan in the system (i.e., they didn't want us to stay there) Might have been a one-off, but be sure to check. Parking in LEGE goes for about €2/day but, come to think of it, that's for locally based a/c. Cheaper landing within 100NM of Barcelona would be LECD (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Alp,+Spain&ie=UTF8&t=h&om=1&ll=41.996243,2.059937&spn=1.734976,3.647461&z=8&iwloc=addr) (La Cerdanya), which is 100% free. Get someone to give you a hitch into town (Alp, about 2km away) and then it's off to Barcelona by train or take a taxi to Puigcerdà and hire a car there (but probably cheaper to hire either in Barcelona or Girona).

All the other airfields mentioned (LEGE, LEAP, LERS, LELL) charge €10 in landing fees and about €6/day parking IIRC. LECD, LEAP, and LESU (near Cerdanya) are non-customs, but that's not a concern since you will have cleared customs in France already.

[LH2]

Car hire is available at Girona from all the major companies. You can hire on the spot right at the desk, but it tends to be cheaper to book in advance via internet. I normally use www.avis.com (which strangely enough has cheaper rates than www.avis.co.uk)

[High Wing Drifter]

Stuart,

Try these write ups, maybe email the author with any other questions you may have.

http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/index.html

[sternone]

If you wan't to have an great night stay, book at the Castell Demporda castle hotel http://www.castelldemporda.com/ ask for a room in the tower, the view is stunning, the food is awesome, and only around 20 minutes car drive from the airport..!!!

[dublinpilot]

Plenty of car hire desks at Reus, but again, better to book in advance.

dp

[dublinpilot]

Airport charges for most of the Spanish airports can be found here. (http://www.aena.es/csee/ccurl/GUIA.TARIFAS.2007.INGLES_mar.pdf)

Yes you are reading them correctly....they are that cheap!

dp

[MrHorgy]

I flew Manchester-Lydd-Le Havre-Le Mans(night)-Poitiers-Carcasonne-Reus(night)-Perpignan-Lognes(Paris, night)-Manchester. All in all a nice little trip.

I've done it again before as well, I got from Manchester Barton to Le Mans in 4 hours in my 172 - nice! That's via the Cherbourg - IOW VFR corridor.

When we went to Le Mans, we landed after the airport had closed, parked and hitched a lift into town. The nice french guy even invited us for a meal at his house! Because it was closed, no landing fee. Same for Poitiers (just be careful not to fly over Futuroscope). All the Danger/Restricted areas in France seemed to be quite haphazard in operation, normally your FIS will tell you if they are active if asked, but it's worth checking because although it looks like they are everywhere, they might only be open every second thursday and during a full moon.

Spain was nice and easy as well, full approach into Reus and overnight cost us 8 Euros. Car hire that night was 30 Euros, and we found a hotel all three people shared for about £8 each. Bargain. We had originally planned on Sabadell, just don't get caught with the increasing darkness (which we did - luckily had an IR pilot onboard).

Jepp chart was good, I haven't seen the ICAO ones, but the french IGN maps were brilliant.

Enjoy the trip, if you want any comments on nightlife (the stuff I remember anyway) give me a PM.

Horgy

[stuartforrest]

OK this is my first plan and I would welcome comments and to tell me if this isnt possible.

I was hoping to fly Blackpool to Jersey using fuel claiming a drawback maybe.
Refuel on tax free cheaper fuel.

Fly direct to a northern Spain airfield using the airway that is at FL065 from Caen to Spain. I would hope not to have to join the airway at Caen but a bit further down as that would be an eastward flight of about 25 minutes from Jersey when of course I want to go south.

I want to least hassle and least getting out route as I have three kids in the back as well.

Any ideas on best routing, fueling, customs etc.

I may need some help with the flightplan as I haven't done loads and I am OK filing dct here dct there etc but not sure if this will do for the airways routing.

[MrHorgy]

Fuel wise, i'm not too sure how drawback works, but paying no tax would seem to be a good idea, I know I could have done it through Lydd but I didn't know what it was! :eek:

Flight planning wise, get yourself Jepp plates E(LO) 3/4, and 5/6 which will cover more or less your whole route. Depending on where you wanted to join the airways system, you could pick it up at Jersey, Caen (CAN)or L'Aigle (AGL). From CAN, R111 runs to AGL. Airway A34 goes south from AGL all the way into Spain, and has a base of FL70. The problem comes where it runs bang over the Pyranees and goes up to FL150, which you might not want to do. In that case i'd go south as far as Limoges VOR (LMG) and then jump on G36 to Perpignan, which also has a base of FL70, lowering to 5400. From there you could take A27 to Bagur VOR (BGR), but after that if your VFR i'd go visual as there is some complicated airspace around Barcelona.

Make sure you plan the timings well and don't get stuck in the dark, as a night rating isn't valid in Europe, and neither is your IMC - although very useful.

For your flightplan, have a look here - it's what a cursory search on google threw up.

http://www.flyingineurope.be/Flightplan.htm

In the routing section, assuming you fly the route I put you'll put something like "N0120F065 DCT CAN R111 LGL A34 LMG G36 PPG A27 BGR". Replace 120 with your cruising speed, and F will be your flightlevel. Only other difficult part might be the EET's for the different FIR's, you'll have to calculate those, and put them in your remarks section. they are in the format "EET/XXXXYYYY" where XXXX is the FIR name and YYYY is the time from departure to the boundary. You'll go through Brest (LFRR), Paris (LFFF), Bordeaux (LFBB), Marseille (LFMM) and Barcelona (LECB).

One last note - as long as your don't rely on them, there are a number of flightsim tools around for flightplanning, which can give you a good idea of how things are, and are designed for people who haven't done this before. As long as you DON'T rely on them for navigation, they can at least point you in the right direction.

Horgy

[IO540]

A quick look at the SIA chart:

EGJJ DCT LERAK A25 BMC B19 ENSAC R10 BTZ

and then perhaps DCT SSN and you are in Spain.

The above may not pass Eurocontrol but that is irrelevant as you are going VFR, so a FP at FL065, with a FL115 bit BMC0-ENSAC (you can ask to remain at FL065 there) should do it.

It's questionable whether this route is in one half of the semicircle or the other. I'd file for FL085/FL095 as that gives the best fuel economy if non-turbo.

You need to give EETs for LERAK and SSN.

A more scenic route, suitable for weekends, which can be flown at very low level is something like

EGJJ DCT LERAK DCT NTS DCT YN DCT RY DCT TMP01 DCT TMP02 BTZ etc

where TMP01 is a point on the west coast 200 degrees from RY, and TMP02 is another point on the coast just north of Biarritz.

where TMP01 is a point on the west coast 200 degrees from RY, and TMP02 is another point on the coast just north of Biarritz. You can specify these two as lat/long or VORrrrddd. This takes you via R31A1 etc and I don't know the status of those; weekends should be OK.

The extensive French military airspace is greatly overdone and as far as I can tell the locals tend to either ignore it, or they know who to call for a transit while potting along at 30mph in some rag+tube type, within their usual 50 mile radius :) But this is no way to do real flying across Europe; you've got to work out 99% of it on the ground so when airborne you are well ahead of the game and don't get any suprises. The power station TRAs (the ZITs) are lethal for getting into serious trouble and must be avoided at absolutely all cost.

Other than that, much of France is just fields, fields, fields and nothing else.

Re fuel costs, I would have thought that the best way to do it is to leave the UK with full tanks (and claim back the duty), and on the way back aim to reach Jersey with plenty of room in the tanks and get cheap fuel there. If you leave the UK with full tanks and go to Jersey, you won't get much benefit from the cheap fuel at Jersey because you won't be taking on much of it. Still, Blackpool to Jersey is a reasonable run. In the TB20, I would do Blackpool to LESO direct - about 650nm and a mere 4+hrs; one could almost go there and back without a refuel :)