Intercepting Wandering Bears & Blackjacks Again (Merged)

[ChristiaanJ]

Sorry, "Naive" here.
I know about December 7th and September 11th, but what is this January 20th?

[serf]

Any Bears today..............it is a Friday after all.

[kiwi grey]

I suspect that's 'Inauguration Day'

[You know, they have this quaint idea of an elected king, so they have a coronation thingy every four years] :}

[M609]

It now appears they DID intercept on the 20th. Nowegian MOD released this image, it appeared in the local newspapers later.

http://multimedia.api.no/www.nordlys.no/dynamic/01458/fly2_1458434m.jpg

[TEEEJ]

Great image. Thanks for posting!

The following show images taken from Russian/Soviet aircraft of Western types during intercepts

Quite unique!
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=123497

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=123498

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=123511

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=123581

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=125365

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=125366

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=125399

A good link showing Norwegian intercepts. How many Badgers?!

http://starfighter.no/web/life331.html

From

http://starfighter.no/web/arti-fle.html

[Arthur Rowe]

Christopher Isherwood:

The common cormorant (or shag)
Lays eggs inside a paper bag.
You follow the idea, no doubt?
It's to keep the lightning out.

But what these unobservant birds
Have never thought of, is that herds
Of wandering bears might come with buns
And steal the bags to hold the crumbs.

That's all folks!

[con-pilot]

I remember reading an intercept report (I have no idea how true it was) printed in a trade magazine about some Bear bombers that were intercepted by a flight of F-4 out of Elmendorf AFB in Alaska.

According to article the WSO in the back seat was taking pictures of the Bear. The crew of the Bear radioed their Command Post and asked what to do about the F-4s taking pictures of them.

The reply was, "Wave."

In the article was a picture of the tail gunner on the Bear waving.

As I posted, don't know if the story is true or not, still funny in any case.

[Lamenting Navigator]

Aww, lovely pics, TEEEJ. I've come over all nostalgic:)

[AonP]

Below is the text from a House of Lords question regarding RAF/RN assets involed in detecting and intercepting Russian aircraft:

"Lord Trefgarne asked Her Majesty's Government:

What Royal Air Force and Royal Navy assets are available to detect and intercept Russian Bear aircraft which may approach United Kingdom airspace. [HL5273]

The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence & Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform (Lord Drayson):

The Royal Air Force is responsible for the detection and identification of aircraft and the dissemination of the recognised air picture within United Kingdom airspace and its approaches, using assets such as RAF control and reporting centres at RAF Boulmer and RAF Scampton and remote air defence radars and communications sites. RAF Sentry aircraft, Royal Navy Type 42 air defence assets and Sea King air surveillance and control Mark 7 helicopters all have the ability to contribute to the recognised air picture when operating around United Kingdom airspace and waters.

Royal Air Force Tornado F3 and Typhoon aircraft maintain continuous quick reaction alert readiness and are normally based at RAF Coningsby and RAF Leuchars."

[Maple 01]

The Royal Air Force is responsible for the detection and identification of aircraft and the dissemination of the recognised air picture within United Kingdom airspace and its approaches,

AP3430 refers - I take it someone helped him with the answer?

[PingDit]

When the same question is asked in 2020....

"Flt Lt scroggs, the Station Commander of RAF Northern UK releases a large box of very shiny helium baloons in an effort to dazzle their pilots and force them to turn away from our shores".......

[TEEEJ]

The following image link is very interesting. Looks like one of the test-bed Bear Hs carrying a load of the new ALCMs. Possibly Kh-101s airframes?

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=157849

[Colonal Mustard]

When the same question is asked in 2020....

"Flt Lt scroggs, the Station Commander of RAF Northern UK releases a large box of very shiny helium baloons in an effort to dazzle their pilots and force them to turn away from our shores".......


Racing pidgeons more like, which have been bred by Percy twidgen of Ilkley to fly into the engines of approaching enemy aircraft:E

[Maple 01]

Fitted with little suicide bomber's jackets? I think it might work.....

[ORAC]

Fitted with little suicide bomber's jackets? I think it might work..... Nowt new in the world. There was Project Pigeon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pigeon) which was cancelled by the military - and then there was the Bat Bomb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_bomb) for night ops.

Just think of the weapons that might be in service if it wasn't for the A bomb...... :cool:

[AonP]

BODO, Norway, Oct. 16 (UPI) -- The appearance of two Russian "Blackjack" bombers off the coast of Norway early Tuesday set off a response from Norwegian jets.

Two F-16 jets from a NATO base near Bodo, well above the Arctic Circle, followed the Russian planes, Aftenposten reported. The Norwegian jets returned to base within 45 minutes.

The Blackjacks headed toward Britain, where they were met by RAF jets.

Russia claims its jets are involved in training flights, although observers believe President Vladimir Putin is making a display of Russian military power. The Norwegian goal, when Russian planes are detected, is not to stop them but to identify them, track their movements and demonstrate nothing can enter Norwegian airspace without detection.

Later in the day, a man in a car dropped off a suspicious package weighing more than 30 pounds outside the Norwegian Northern Military Command headquarters in Bodo. The package was taken to a soccer ground for dismantling.

[TEEEJ]

Sky news visits Engels base in Russia. A short video including an interview with one of the Bear pilots intercepted by RAF aircraft.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1289329,00.html

[M609]

The Norwegian MOD has turned really media orientated this summer. They supplied this information for a piece on CRC Soerreisa in the local rag on saturday.

http://home.online.no/~anderfo/Div/faxm_tromsfolkeblad.jpg

It supposedly details the locations of all interceptions in 2007 with the date, as well as general direction of travel of the Russian after the intercept.


By the way: "Later in the day, a man in a car dropped off a suspicious package weighing more than 30 pounds outside the Norwegian Northern Military Command headquarters in Bodo. The package was taken to a soccer ground for dismantling."

...it was the local baker delivery boy, dropped the daily delivery off early at an unmanned gate :E :} :ok:

[AonP]

Airfield Review (Tertiary Airfield Support)

The Minister for the Armed Forces (Mr. Bob Ainsworth): On 18 July 2002, Official Report, columns 460-464, my right hon. Friend, the Member for Ashfield (Mr Hoon) the then Secretary of State for Defence, announced the publication of a new chapter to the 1998 Strategic Defence Review (SDR) that was designed to ensure that our defence policies, capabilities and force structures matched the challenges that the new terrorist threats posed.

Quick Reaction Alert (QRA) comprises: armed Tornado F3 and Typhoon aircraft held at ground readiness for immediate take-off; the Air Surveillance and Control System to provide warning and command and control of the fighter aircraft; and tanker aircraft also held at high ground readiness. QRA fulfils two concurrent functions. Firstly, it meets the United Kingdom's responsibility within NATO to provide air policing of agreed member airspace. Secondly, under UK national control, QRA provides an airborne contribution to countering threats against the UK by terrorist organisations or individuals. The SDR New Chapter confirmed that airfields across the UK—RAF Marham, RAF St Mawgan and RNAS Yeovilton—would be able to support QRA aircraft when needed, in addition to the bases from which the QRA aircraft usually operate.

Following the decision to dispose of the airfield at RAF St Mawgan, we have reviewed the short term tertiary airfields that support quick reaction alert aircraft and decided that MOD Boscombe Down and RNAS Culdrose will now be enabled by Spring 2008 to cover any potential threats to the south and south-western airspaces. In the interim, RAF St Mawgan will continue to be utilised as necessary to support short term QRA aircraft. RAF Marham will continue to be maintained as a tertiary QRA airfield. This support is in addition to the bases that are already able to operate such aircraft and will give us enhanced flexibility in our air defence arrangements.

[AonP]

Lord Jopling asked Her Majesty's Government:

How many sorties, involving how many aircraft, on how many of the past 60 days have been launched to monitor Russian aircraft approaching United Kingdom airspace; and whether consideration is being given to the number of future Tornado fighters based at RAF Leeming.

The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence & Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform (Lord Drayson):

Quick Reaction Alert aircraft were launched to intercept Russian aircraft on four separate days during August and September 2007. I am withholding information on the number of sorties and the number of intercepting aircraft as its disclosure would, or would be likely to, prejudice the capability, effectiveness or security of our Armed Forces.

Tornado F3 aircraft are being gradually withdrawn from service as they are replaced by Typhoon aircraft. The remaining Tornado F3 unit based at RAF Leeming is due to disband in 2008. We keep our air defence capability under constant review to ensure that we meet our commitment to protect the UK and its airspace.

[hoodie]

Thread creep I know, but:

The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence & Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform (Lord Drayson):

Oh! So it's not just Swiss Des who is a part-timer. Lucky there's not much on in MOD at the moment.

[BEagle]

Boscombe-bl**dy-Down?

Just love to see the effect of an 0200 Q-launch in that neck of the woods!

Nice TV piece from Southern Russia this evening on ITV showing Tu-160 movements. And the UK's strategic bomber force.........??

1 x Lancaster (RAF)
1 x Vulcan (civilian)

Appalling.

[ChristiaanJ]

Thanks, AonP.... the challenges that the new terrorist threats pose.At least we now know where to drop off our shoes, shampoo bottles and take-away curries.

[soddim]

We keep our air defence capability under constant review to ensure that we meet our commitment to protect the UK and its airspace.

Air defence force we have left could not protect the UK and its' airspace from the French - was that why Brown had to sign the new treaty?

[ukmil]

Tornado F3 aircraft are being gradually withdrawn from service as they are replaced by Typhoon aircraft. The remaining Tornado F3 unit based at RAF Leeming is due to disband in 2008. We keep our air defence capability under constant review to ensure that we meet our commitment to protect the UK and its airspace.

we still have F3's elswhere. Leuchars currently has 3 sqn's. But as of March 1st, will go down to 2, although 43 will become a super sqn, with the OCU element embedded, with the use of 26 aircraft

[ChristiaanJ]

Air defence force we have left could not protect the UK and its airspace from the FrenchWith St. Pancras now three hours from the Gare du Nord, why bother?

Ze French will have taken over ze Banque d'England and ze Buckingham Palace before les Rosbif can plug up ze tunnel ....

[TheStrawMan]

Ivan's making a big thing about visiting us aloft but whats he up to underwater?
I hope he isn't sneaking up our back passage whilst distracting us by knocking on the front door.

[tonker]

And then when caught frantically saying "oooops,god,damn i was aiming for the front one honest" ;)

[LateArmLive]

43 will become a super sqn, with the OCU element embedded, with the use of 26 aircraft

and they may be able to get 3 airborne at once from that pool :E

[glad rag]

And just what is that supposed to indicate?

[LateArmLive]

It's supposed to indicate banter.

[PingDit]

Why don't we simply invite Russia to join NATO? Then we could all join hands and concentrate on the terrorist/Islamist threats.

[bluebird121]

I do not think Mr Putin is interested in joining NATO.. I do not trust him as far as I can fling him.
I mean what is all that with the submarines under the ocean. As Strawman says..Just what exactly are they up to?

[PingDit]

I think it's just all part of the flag waving in an attempt to muster support from his own people. Notwithstanding that, it may be successful in securing larger budgets for our military!

[Boldface]

Notwithstanding that, it may be successful in securing larger budgets for our military!

Dream on....:ugh:

[Showtime100]

Not sure if this has already been posted but may be of interest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHajGU_MHH0&feature=dir

The chap in the comedy hat makes some interesting comments about the RAF.

[soddim]

Jolly decent of that Russian pilot to acknowledge that his mission resulted in something for the RAF to do - stops the boredom of Q maybe.

[ChristiaanJ]

Maybe they just like to get in some proficiency again.
And for the moment fly against "adversaries" who will wave, rather than shoot first and ask questions later.
If for them the balloon ever goes up, they may well be flying on a very different heading.....

[M609]

One flight of Bear-Hs and one of Blackjacks today, again according to media.

No RNoAF attendance to the Bears due to weather, but RAF launched and intercepted.
The Blackjacks got company from both sides, including support from RAF AWACS the report said.

Apparently a certain NATO meeting in the Netherlands was the "target", with the flight going as far as the Dutch coast :E

[TEEEJ]

Small video clip from Russia Today. It includes cockpit footage from the Bear of a Tornado F.3.

http://www.russiatoday.ru/features/news/15698/video

http://www.russiatoday.ru/features/news/15698

http://www.russiatoday.ru/media/image/9/4716e9621bbf2.jpg

[cm74]

Do you honestly expect an answer to this question tubby?

:ugh:

[speeddial]

That's almost as stupid a question as asking if a Nimrod has been spotted around Murmansk recently, just don't go that ya fool (said in a Mr T voice)

[ORAC]

Cos they is ugly unlike airyplanes. I mean, whoever paid to go to a submarine show? :}

[normally right blank]

Apparently a certain NATO meeting in the Netherlands was the "target", with the flight going as far as the Dutch coast
AP story from Norwegian military spokesperson LtCol John Espen Lie: "The two Tu-160 bombers came unusually close to Dutch airspace Thursday. The two aircraft followed the Norwegian coast, then across the North Sea between the UK and Denmark before turning around about 190 km. North West of the Netherlands, where NATO defence ministers were assembled at Noordwijk. The aircraft followed a very unusual route. It could be a coincidence, but it could also be a signal", he adds.
As well as RAF presence, I would expect Dutch F-16's to be there too.

[normally right blank]

Danish F-16's followed a Tu-160 for 25 min.s this morning over the North Sea. The Danish Air Force has crambled twice before this year at similar flights.
Foreign policy expert: The bombers are unlikely to be armed and the flights are part of the Russian election "game".
http://forsvaret.dk/FTK/Nyt+og+Presse/AVB.htm

[TEEEJ]

It does seem a trifle odd that people are happy to discuss and post pictures of the RAF having a jolly time intercepting Bears,yet there is no discussion about an odd submarine appearing in Uk waters.

http://www.teachwithmovies.org/guides/russians-are-coming-DVDcover.jpg

[Brain Potter]

It does seem a trifle odd that people are happy to discuss and post pictures of the RAF having a jolly time intercepting Bears,yet there is no discussion about an odd submarine appearing in Uk waters.

Yes, but you're forgetting that we've still got plenty of capacity in AD role compared to other fleets that are "stretched, but not over-stretched" with OOA commitments.

Even if the ASW world had the same penchant for publicity, it seems unlikely that there would be the same sort of capacity left to deal with the extra business.

[AonP]

The number of intercepts seems on the up - I cant wait to see the Sep and Oct figures!

Mr. Hollobone: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many times Royal Air Force flights were scrambled to intercept aircraft approaching the UK in each month for the latest year for which figures are available; and in each case from which countries the approaching aircraft originated.

Des Browne: For the year from 1 September 2006 to 31 August 2007, the number of scrambles to intercept aircraft approaching the UK by month is given in the following table:

2006

September 1
October 0
November 1
December 0

2007

January 0
February 1
March 0
April 2
May 0
June 0
July 3
August 1

Not all scrambles resulted in an interception as some incidents were resolved before the target aircraft was intercepted. The military aircraft involved were Russian. The civilian airliners were from a range of countries.

[Razor61]

i think those figures are a load of tosh.... playing down the real total by far.

[PICKS135]

Judging by the racket at 0 dark early this morning. You can add a Q launch to the November 2007 figures already.

[normally right blank]

"Stats"
Indeed, very odd "low" numbers! :suspect:
Better look in Norwegian newspapers - or why not ask the Russians themselves?
(They may still have funny hats, but the "Sky News" clip was not bad at all!)

[M609]

Yeeees, it was in the news today as well. Again intercepted due west of Bardufoss. :O

Air Force very open about it this year. Surly no correlation with the big reorganization bill (i.e closures) the parliament is voting on after new year!? :E

[TheStrawMan]

Yeah them Reds 'as thick as bugs on a bumper
They even had a bear-in-the-air
I sez callin' all aircraft, this here's The Strawman
We about to go a huntin' bear

[ChristiaanJ]

We about to go a huntin' bear
Poor bears....
Brown bears, black bears, grizzlies, polar bears, now red bears.... all being hunted to extinction.

[ukmil]

QRA just launched again at 23.30 Friday evening

[skippedonce]

ukmil

BEADWINDOW

[speeddial]

Skippedonce, while its nice to think such information can be controlled sadly those days have passed. There are mailing lists around for the hobbyists who will happily post the tactical callsigns, vectoring information, interplane freqs etc.

[Never Alert]

Open radio freqs & the fact that people do notice the odd F3 leaving its base late at night, not to mention the VC10 that may well have woken up everyone within a 2 mile radius!

That said, we should not be placing info on here whilst QRA Ops are ongoing. It may seem like unnecessary Opsec however, it is actually a mind set that should be applied to everything we do and a lapse here, could also become a lapse out in theatre.

It's not our little pink bodies in the jets.

[skippedonce]

speeddial,
While I don't dispute any of what you've said, but making it easy for those that don't need to know, particulalry within 3 minutes of the event occurring, shows a lack of operational awareness. QRA jets departing are not necessarily triggered by Cold War nostalgia flights, and those other events are potentially highly-sensitive while ongoing. I'm not trying to do the scuffer's job for them, but it's just not good practice.

[Jackonicko]

A 12 hour rule should address any security concern, while still giving a useful indicator as to whether reality and 'released figures' are diverging.

No-one needs to know that the Q jets have scrambled from Leuchars a few minutes ago, but to know that they scrambled again yesterday is interesting.

[speeddial]

I'm not suggesting I endorse people releasing such information but the cotton wool comfort of PPrune does not exist across the whole of the Internet.

[glad rag]

Yep, somethings are best left unsaid, for a time anyway.

[AonP]

I hear that the a secret northern FC establishment had a few problems with some bears last week - anyone care to comment? Basics was the call I heard!!

[High_Expect]

Perhapes they should spend more time playing card games and less time in a zoo. Otherwise correct.

[ChristiaanJ]

Quite frankly....
Don't you think there is at least one "mole" somewhere in the north with a high-power scanner and an internet connection, who keeps the Russians informed?
And don't the Russians have R/T monitoring satellites?

Really, if the Russians have to rely on 'Intel' from PPRuNe, even if it's up-to-date.... I don't think so.
Don't overestimate yourselves.....

[Self Loading Freight]

Security's a state of mind. There aren't that many serious secrets in this business, but good intelligence comes from putting together apparently unconnected - and apparently mundane and unimportant- facts.

I don't think the Russians are in any way a military threat to the UK. I don't think there's any harm in people talking about what happens when bears come wandering, most of the time. I'm a journalist and someone with an interest in aviation and defence, so I _want_ to know this stuff... but I'm happier if people keep schtumm.

R

[tubby linton]

A few pictures of bears surprisingly here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/07/in_pictures_russia0s_resurgent_bombers/html/1.stm

[ChristiaanJ]

SLF,
There aren't that many serious secrets in this business, but good intelligence comes from putting together apparently unconnected - and apparently mundane and unimportant- facts.
Agreed.... look back to WWII.... (have you read R.V. Jones' "Most Secret War"?)
But I can't believe that Russian sigint is so backward that they need to trawl PPRuNe .....
CJ

[ChristiaanJ]

tubby linton,
Thanks for the link.

And what about a couple of Tu-160s "virtually" (i.e., going through the motions) dropping a few nukes on Leuchars?
Are you going to splash them before they get to within stand-off range?
Or kindly tell them to f*** off, since they're too bloody close?

[maxburner]

I had always thought that, as I sat at my PPRUNE console, the world revolved around me. Now you say it ain't so! What's a chap to think?:confused:

[Maple 01]

But I can't believe that Russian sigint is so backward that they need to trawl PPRuNe

I think come CIA bloke wrote a paper about the use of open sources. When Mr. Putin was onboard a Russian Nuclear sub a few years back for a test firing of some SS system the first we knew that it had all gone wrong was when it appeared on some Russian language website.....Unclassified sources are great (and it means you can trawl tinternet on the company's time:ok:)

[Romeo Oscar Golf]

http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/statusicon/post_new.gif Today, 02:29 #333 (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3793624&postcount=333) maxburner (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=53875)



I had always thought that, as I sat at my PPRUNE console, the world revolved around me. Now you say it ain't so! What's a chap to think?:confused:



So, what's an old fighter man doing, playing with his console at 0229hrs on Christmas Eve? Or are you in the land of sunshine? Whatever, old son, Happy Christmas, and a healthy and prosperous New Year to you and the family, and to all PPruners:ok:

[Pontius Navigator]

At the height of the cold war and the new Moss AWAC promising to close the low level penetration gap we had an int brief illustrated with photos of the inside of the aircraft.

Compared with the slightly out of focus, grass framed pictures of Russian radars it was amazing. I asked the CIntO afterwards where they got them - Russian TV :)

[Backwards PLT]

I think the point about security is not to make it too easy for the other guys. Sure the Russians could have a guy sat near Leuchars, reporting in, or near FC bases or spy sats - but all that is surprisingly difficult and expensive. Compare it to surfing the internet back home. Easy and cheap (free!)

Just think about what you post. I think most people post about stuff they have no idea what they are talking about - those that do know keep quiet!

[Blacksheep]

Those who know about things post deliberately misleading information. :hmm:

[maxburner]

Romeo Oscar Golf,

Thank you for the message. A happy and healthy 2008 to you too.

By the way, I was cleaning up after a party at Burner Towers. Several fighter types, all unsavoury, present. Much red wine consumed.

[TEEEJ]

Looks like it was Tu-160 Blackjacks in the North Sea.

http://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/Display_news.asp?section=World_News&subsection=United+Kingdom+%26+Europe&month=December2007&file=World_News2007122685457.xml

http://english.pravda.ru/russia/politics/26-12-2007/103172-strategic_bombers-0

[Self Loading Freight]

And meanwhile, there are fun and games closer to the deck...

Pilots say Russian exercise a risk (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/R/RUSSIAN_EXERCISES?SITE=DCUSN&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)

"Air operations by a Russian naval task force sailing from the North Atlantic to the Mediterranean represent a potential threat to the safety of civilian flights in the area, an international pilots' group warned Friday.

The squadron consisting of the carrier Admiral Kuznetsov and two Udaloy-class destroyers represents the most ambitious Russian naval deployment since the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union.

[...]

When it sailed across the North Sea last week, the Kuznetsov conducted air operations close to Norway's Gullfaks offshore oil field "without communication with any air traffic or other agency," said a statement issued by The International Federation of Air Line Pilots' Associations to its members.

It warned civilian pilots that similar operations below 10,000 feet could occur anywhere along the fleet's route "without prior notification." They could also result in communications loss due to interference from military transmissions, the group said.

[...]"

Presumably their GPS jammers and other interesting toys will be getting a work-out. Lots to see and do on your first trip in a while!

[ChristiaanJ]

Maybe the time has come for a few Mach 1+ flybys at mast height à la "Top Gun?
After all it's international waters and international air.

[Green Flash]

I'd be surprised if those agencies that need to know where they are, don't. eg Kuz & Co had a Noggy frigate on their tails as they came down the Norwegian Sea.

[safetypee]

Maybe the time has come for a few Mach 1+ flybys at mast height à la "Top Gun?
I recall a Leuchars based 4 ship circa late 70’s conducting a high-low to somewhere just west of Papa Westray which included a high speed run over a task force. On refection, it may not have been such a good idea given the number of guns that tracked us.

[ACARS]

Sky News Report - Is there an increase in these events?

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1301862,00.html

[In Support of Ops]

:\ Love the pictures of the ground attack variant aircraft. Sky News.......... Monkeys! Wonder how much more of the story is inaccurate bollox?

[fake wafu]

In support of ops you beat me too it! fairly typical that the media get the wrong variant of Tornado - I cant really tell from the small image on my laptop but they look like GR1s not GR4s so it is a very old library picture of the wrong type of aircraft.

This thread links to the 'Kutsnezov on route to the med' thread.

[Spangly]

Although credit where credit’s due – at least in the caption they got the plural of ‘Tornado’ correct….

[Flap62]

And to be fair, they weren't wrong. The picture showed exactly what the caption said it was.

[Lurking123]

Sorry, have we been chasing Russians again? I thought we weren't that interested anymore. :oh:

[Ivan Rogov]

It's OK they will stop it after the Russian elections, just Putin flexing his military muscle to get votes.

Oh bugger weren't they in November? Things are getting decidedly frosty with our Russian chums :ooh:

A good time to look at how well the UK is protected before we charge off on any more Crusades. Defend the UK and its interests and all that, isn't it?

[Agaricus bisporus]

Just a thought,

The common Cormorant, or Shag
Lays eggs inside a paper bag
The reason you will see, no doubt
It is to keep the Lightning(s) out
But what these unobservant birds
Have never noticed is that herds
Of wandering Bears may come with buns
And steal the bags to keep the crumbs

[Out Of Trim]

I thought there was supposed to be an end of cold war peace dividend!

oh dear was I misled Mr Blair - eh Mr Brown..

seems not I'd say

Time to smell the coffee and wise up eh!

Get a grip for god's sake :ugh::ugh:

[Lossie23]

Hi all,

It was reported that two Blackjacks were intercepted by the RAF on Tuesday en-route to the Bay of Biscay to launch missiles as part of a Russian Navy exercise involving the aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov and supporting ships.

The Russian AF said that from Wednesday Bears, Backfires, A-50 (AWACS), Il-78 (tankers) and more Blackjacks were due to take part in the exercise. I haven't seen any reports of any more intercepts this week apart from the one on Tuesday. Does anyone know if the influx of Russian aircraft into the Atlantic did happen and were there more intercepts this week?

[JFZ90]

Quick question - its obviously a long way from russia to the bay of biscay round the top of britain and down. How do the russians preplan for the potential 'loss' of say a blackjack on route, where perhaps a mech problem would require the crew to eject, say 200 miles of the coast of Ireland? Obviously if there is a problem near the russian fleet then they could send Kamovs or whatever for Air-Sea rescue, but over the distances involved there must be big stretches of the route that don't have russian air-sea rescue cover, or do they do this another way (i.e. with other russian ships or trawlers on-route so they are always covered by their own forces and don't need to call out Bristow or our coastguard?).

[Mad_Mark]

Unless they go down within range of their own organic helos they do it another way.

200nm off the coast of Ireland puts them into the UK SAR region, and so that other way would be for the UK to launch SAR Ops to rescue them.

Just because the aircrew are still considered by some to be 'the enemy' they are not, and even if they were it is still the responsibility of the UK to save life in it's designated SAR region.

MadMark!!! :mad:

[JFZ90]

I wasn't questioning whether we'd go and get them - I know UK (and others) SAR would without hesitation.

However as these exercises seem mainly "National Pride / domestic election" driven, then being seen to be "self sufficient" and not reliant on other nations/forces if things go wrong might be a big issue for them, that they're covering? Or are the russians actually declaring all their flight plans with relevant nations on the quiet just in case? Or does this not really matter - i.e. wouldn't affect the chances of recovery, which is more down to them having right survival gear/immersion suits/compatible PLBs etc.

[M609]

When I got to work on Tuesday morning the Norwegian QRA was following something southbound.

[Lossie23]

Hi all,

Would love to hear some stories of some of the tricks that the Soviets used to get up to when Bears etc would get intercepted by NATO fighters during the Cold War. I've heard about them shining lights into the eyes of pilots for example. I imagine the long endurance of the Bear would give them opportunities for some interesting and imaginative routings. I've heard that some Bears would take the usual route to Cuba and double back to try and catch the RAF out.

With no radar coverage out in mid Atlantic once a Bear got far enough out to be left alone by fighters it could turn back and if it dropped down to low-level and popped up near the UK coast I suppose it might have given the guys that monitored the UKADR during the Cold War a surprise or two. Any folks out there got some interesting tales or know of any.

Also during the Cold War did any Soviet aircraft ever breach the 12 mile limit of national airspace and actually enter what is officially UK airspace?

Also seen an old pic on PPrune of a VC10 alongside a Bear. Do the QRA tankers these days ever get close to the Russians during an intercept or is it just the fighters.

[Pontius Navigator]

There was the time a Nimrod intercepted the Bear. All OK for a time as photos were exchanged. Then the Bear got bored. Put on the power, climbed, and the Nimrod kept up. Then the Bear turned tighter, climbed faster, and it was game set and match.

[TheChitterneFlyer]

I recall an occasion when we were heading for Macrihanish in the TriStar for a routine exercise when we were retasked by TANSOPS and given a Lat/Long for rendezvous with a couple of Phantoms. My skipper at the time was Bob (Bumps) Rowley, sadly no longer with us, who was an ex Phantom jockey and he immediately understood the situation... it was to be a 'Bear' intercept. He was determined to get there before the interceptors and he therefore asked for 'Max Continuous' to be set on our RB211s. Just prior to our breaking through the top cloud cover we could see two sets of contrails above us and set heading to give chase. As we broke cloud cover, there in front of us were two Bears at a range of about four miles. Bob eased our TriStar quite close in to the first aircrafts starboard echelon, whilst also giving us a running commentary about where not to go, because he described one occasion whereby the crew of the Bear dumped their trash overboard and almost 'took out' his Phantom. This occasion was quite friendly, possibly because the Bear had never been intercepted by such a large aeroplane before, but you could see the Russian crew taking 'photo's of us. The guy in the rear observation 'blister' took his pants down and gave us a 'moonie'! Bob eased the TriStar beneath the Bear to cross over to it's Port side and I can tell you that the noise from those big propellers was astonishing; not unlike someone showering us with pebbles!

What a huge disappointment it was to not have a camera with us for we would otherwise have had some great footage. The Phantom pair arrived on the scene some five minutes later and we broke off to give them a top-up of gas.

Great memories, which must have been around 1984 ish.

The TriStar remains, in my humble oppinion, the best wide bodied jet ever produced, which I went on to fly with in BA and Caledonian Airways.

Rest In Peace Bob; thanks for the memory.

TCF

[Art Field]

Bears would often come across North of Scotland as a pair, one 10nm behind the leader. A Tanker, Victor or VC10, might close up on the leader, whereupon the no2 Bear would sneak up behind and try to sandwich the Tanker between them, happened to me once. Certainly the Bears large performance range could make it very difficult to stay with them if they chose to try and get away though they generally just noisily ploughed on their way. They appeared to fly to metric levels and ignored normal ATC rules.

[artyhug]

20 miles WEST of Flamborough Head!!! :eek::eek::eek:

Sheez, who spotted it. The window cleaner in York Minsters central tower??

;)

[6foottanker]

Well I sat on Q for 48 hours wed and thur, and the closest I got to getting airborne was a strong gust of wind as I was going to lunch (which wasn't free, despite being forced to live in the Mess....grrrr). Come on Boris, I need some hours this month!

6'

[Jackonicko]

But 6 ft,





There's no such thing as a free lunch!

:}

[SirToppamHat]

Ah but Jacko, I believe 6ft may be referring to the recent changes that have been brought in by those bean-counting t0ssers to save a few more pennies. The logic used to be that if you were away from your home unit, you would incur additional costs by not being able to eat at home, therefore you could claim or take a Day Duty Meal. That has now gone as have free meals on courses ets. We are now in a position where our own people (livers-out) have to pay to go on courses. I wonder how long it will be before someone refuses?

Nibbled to death by ducks.

STH

[MrBernoulli]

............... and BLUNTIE ducks at that! I hate BLUNTIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AonP]

"Lord Jopling asked Her Majesty's Government:

Further to the Written Answer by Lord Drayson on 17 October 2007, on how many occasions since last October Royal Air Force aircraft have been launched to monitor Russian aircraft approaching United Kingdom airspace.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Baroness Taylor of Bolton):

Between 1 October 2007 and 18 January 2008, RAF Quick Reaction Alert aircraft were scrambled on 11 days to identify Russian military aircraft."

The only remaining question is how many aircraft were scrambled on each occasion?

[Never Alert]

Or more importantly...

Why is it that I always seem to badly need to :mad: 10 minutes after sitting down to a scramble, no matter how many times I go to the loo?

[1771 DELETE]

P N
I remember chasing the Bear F you described, it outclimbed us and left us in the dust. Of course we were taking photos all the way up until the Eng realised we were at 12000ft with the port beam window still open, got some good piccis.

[BEagle]

Would have been some years later than 1984, TheChitterneFlyer, as the first of the Great White Whales didn't fly in the tanker role until mid '85!

[wiggy]

Shannon ATC were even warning us commercial types about the carrier and associated air activity as we heading out over the Atlantic yesterday...though I did wonder if the Lat / Long given for the Russian Fleet was as accurate as the Zulu Zulu the fisheads used to give us years ago ( ahh maritime air defence).

Our day was livened up by the ?European pilot who argued long and loud with the sweet sounding Irish lady in ATC that the Lat/Long she was giving put the Carrier on dry land......guess who needs to do the ATPL plotting course again ?:}:}:}

[TheChitterneFlyer]

BEagle,

I did say 1984 ish! At this very moment my logbooks are in a packing crate en-route to Qatar and I was therefore having a stab in the dark for the date... 86 at the latest, because I went to Boscombe after 216.

TCF

[ORAC]

So, are they all up north in the Barent Sea and out of our area, or did we get any of them?

Russian long-range bombers in Atlantic war games
Agence France-Presse | Jan 30, 2008

Moscow: Fourteen Russian long-range bombers flew over the north Atlantic on Tuesday in the last of a series of military manoeuvres held off Europe's coasts since December, news agencies reported.

"Pilots will work on questions of reconnaissance, launching rocket and bomb strikes on enemy naval formations and taking part in aerial battles and air patrols," air force spokesman Alexander Drobyshevsky was quoted as saying.

The exercises will be carried out over neutral waters "in strict accordance with international rules", Drobyshevsky said.

A naval group including the Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier will also take part in the exercises, RIA Novosti news agency reported......

[Toadstool]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/player/nol/newsid_7260000/newsid_7267800?redirect=7267806.stm&news=1&nbwm=1&bbram=1&bbwm=1&nbram=1&asb=1

Hope this link works.

T

[6foottanker]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_7260000/newsid_7267800/7267806.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm&asb=1&news=1&bbcws=1

Guess this is why the Q guys are getting busier! Any chance of a few more quid to help, Gordon?

[AonP]

A recent repsonse from Hansard ref Q launches:

Russia: Military Aircraft

Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many times Russian military aircraft approached British airspace in (a) each month in 2008 and (b) each year since 2006.

Mr. Bob Ainsworth: The following table details how frequently Quick Reaction Alert aircraft have been launched to identify Russian military aircraft approaching the NATO Air Policing Area for which the United Kingdom has responsibility, in each month of 2008.

2008 Number
January 2
February 0
March 1
April 1
May 1
June 0
July 1
August 1
September 1
October 1
November 0
December 1

The following table details how frequently Quick Reaction Alert aircraft were launched to identify Russian military aircraft:

Number
2006 1

2007 19

2008 10

All Russian military Aircraft have remained in International airspace and have not entered UK airspace.

[glad rag]

You do realise that all the replies on Hansard are open to "doctoring" :}

[SirToppamHat]

... and also careful wording:
All Russian military Aircraft have remained in International airspace and have not entered UK airspace.
So they have remained more than 12nm from the mean line of the UK coast then.

[Squirrel 41]

....Is your friend:

RIA Novosti - Military news (http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/)

S41

[Jabba_TG12]

BBC News - RAF spots Russian jets near Western Isles (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/highlands_and_islands/8585432.stm)

Two Blackjacks this time, coming a long way down.

Article says intercepted near STN... given the elasticity with which that location can be interpreted, I'd like to have thought that they'd have ID'd them a lot further north than STN... :suspect:

[sitigeltfel]

Are Tremblers not mounting QRA temporarily from Lossie, or has that all changed?

[AonP]

Good that we got them by STN, not so sure about us seeing them a great deal further North than that though. Remember that we dont have Saxa Vord any more, nor the Faeroes! Civilian radars wont help since I don't think the Russians have started sqwarking. Quite a risk for someone to be taking.

[Jabba_TG12]

The thing that I'm finding particularly disconcerting about this episode is the use of the word "over". :hmm:

Looking at the various places the story has been run - The Torygraph, plus the Abz Press & Journal, Metro and others theres a lot of "over the Isle Of Lewis", "over Scotland", "over the Outer Hebrides", as against "over the North Atlantic" or "over the North Sea" - the implication being that at some point or other, these Blackjacks actually flew overland in UK airspace. :eek:

Now, I'm sure its more than likely journalistic licence/interpretation, but the choice of words, unless deliberately targetted at the dumbed-down, doesnt exactly go a huge way towards reinforcing any fast-eroding confidence in the Air Defence side of things in the UK... :mad:

I sincerely hope I'm reading too much into it. :suspect:

Jackonicko, I'd welcome your take on it.

[rogerk]

For a really good slant on this see The Times readers comments !!

Most along the lines of "Good God bloody Ruskies in our airspace - shoot the buggers down I say what what" !!

:D:D

[Betablockeruk]

The online Daily Mail map is quite clear and has the bombing run from Islay to Thurso. That'll scare 'em :eek:

Over :E

[oldbilbo]

I'm wondering if they showed any interest in goings-on at Benbecula?

Does anyone have access to any more of those Hebridean Sunset piccies, showing Blackjacks on the prowl?

Dear OldBilbo,

I’m terribly sorry but I’m unable to send you the RAF photos you requested today.
I’m authorised to issue MoD material to the media, not the general public, but if you still wish to get copies of the photos you could try making a Freedom of Information request to the MoD. Information on how to do this is on the MoD website: Ministry of Defence | Contact us | Freedom of Information - Information request (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/ContactUs/FreedomOfInformationInformationRequest.htm)
I hope that helps.


I imagine I'll get a faster, more helpful response from the Russian Embassy....
:ugh:

[TEEEJ]

A Daily Mail reader aircraft recognition expert spills the beans! :rolleyes:

"Having seen a low level fly-over of British Aerospace Chadderton Manchester by a Russian Nuclear Bomber in the summer of 2008 nothing surprises me. That Aircraft appeared on a sunny afternoon with no sign of UK defence aircraft.
- Mike walsh, Toronto Canada "

Those pesky Russians disguising themselves as Nimrod MRA4s!

TJ

[Pontius Navigator]

Oldbilbo, email С уважением, Пресс-группа at Russian Embassy [[email protected]]:}










very noisey outside, oops, black Omega just went past a second time

[ChristiaanJ]

A Daily Mail reader aircraft recognition expert spills the beans!
...
Those pesky Russians disguising themselves as Nimrod MRA4s!South of France here.
I can feel for the guy....

A year or so ago.... I spotted a Comet IV from the garden, and LOW (3000ft or so).
I did start wondering if I'd seen a ghost... until I found out that an MRA4 had been staging through MPL on the way to Afganistan.

CJ

[FRED WHELAN]

Can anyone translate the Ruskies red writing just behind the cockpits on these TU-160's please. You may have to google 'MOD Photo's' to get the pics as I cannot upload while at work.....

[TEEEJ]

Fred,

See following links

Tu-160 names - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums (http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=24499)

'01- Mikhail Gromov (Famous test pilot)

02- Vasiliy Reshetnikov (Former Long- range Aviation commander)

03- Pavel Taran (WW2 Bomber pilot)

04- Ivan Yarygin (Famous wrestler, won gold at 1972 Olympics)

05- Originally Il'ya Muromets, now Aleksandr Golovanov (Long- range Aviation commander, 1942-44 and 1946-48)

06- Il'ya Muromets

07- Aleksadr Molodchiy (famous WW2 bomber pilot)

11- Vasiliy Sen'ko (only Long- range Aviation navigator to become Hero of the Soviet Union twice)

12- Aleksandr Novikov (1940s Air Chief Marshal)

16- Aleksey Plokhov (WW2 Bomber pilot)'

Tupolev Tu-160 Blackjack (http://www.flankerman.fsnet.co.uk/tu-160.html)

TJ

[Charley]

Vasily Reshetnikov. Seek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_V._Reshetnikov) and ye shall find -- Wikipedia is your friend.

All rather hum-drum. Were you hoping for something sensationalist, a la Ryanair perhaps? "Bye bye defence budget"?

edit: beaten to the punch by TEEJ. Well done that man. Takes me 8 minutes longer to type with sausage-like fingers...

[Geezers of Nazareth]

Can anyone translate the Ruskies red writing just behind the cockpits on these TU-160's please. You may have to google 'MOD Photo's' to get the pics as I cannot upload while at work.....

"If you can read-ski this, then you are too close-ski".


(In fact, somebody might like to use the TU160 picture in a future 'caption competition' and invite suitable translations).

[FRED WHELAN]

Thanks TEEEJ

[ChristiaanJ]

Some great photographers in those Tonkas, though !

CJ

[M609]

Russians must give their military more money. More flights in 2012 than 2011.

From How the Russians fly along the Norwegian coast (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=no&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vg.no%2Fnyheter%2Finnenriks%2Fartikkel.ph p%3Fartid%3D10051863&act=url) (Google translate is poor as usual, but you get the gist)

http://static.vg.no/uploaded/image/2012/7/20/russerfly_834.jpg

[green granite]

Hmmmm perhaps the CAS should bung them a few quid to come more to the west side of the North Sea, might frighten the politicians into action and get an increase in the budget.