Fraud At Caa Exams?????

[red8]

I can't get my head around this.:ugh:

At our flights school we have students from West Africa. These guys can't pass their PPL exams (the first couple of times) , yet when they go write their CAA COMM Exams they pass all 8 first time without having done a ground school.

How on earth can this happen if something is not amiss?

Has anything changed since the last scandal, or is it still OPS NORMAL for the fraudsters but just not covered in the media?

[Goffel]

Red8.
Thats quite a serious allegation or thought that you have.

What flight school do you have / work at, that you know that these chaps cannot pass their PPL's, yet, just suddenly go off and write their Comm's passing all 8 at the same time. (without attending a ground school).

What sort of numbers are you talking about ???????..(5 guys, 10 guys).

Since they cannot pass their PPL's, they cannot write their comm's !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....

Goffel by the mine dump

[Mad Mac]

Correct me if I'm wrong! They failed their PPL's but passed their Comm. I shud've skipped my PPL too and gone straight to Comm. In fact why did they write Comm and not just go for ATP!!

WEIRD! gonna watch this thread!;);)

[dynamicd]

Good question as far as I know you can only enter for the cpl written with a valid ppl,this ppl can only be had after one must have passed the ppl written administered by the flight schools.Are you alleging your school allows these westafricans get the ppl without passing the exams?If you have facts to prove this please inform the CAA so your school can be sanctioned for this.As for the caa i think its about time it starts changing comm questions regularly to prevent fraud.

[ugflyer]

This is hilarious,
Sounds like some story that was initially told by an instructor, then it passed on to the janitor and then the guy in the control tower heard it and then it reached a student that had washed out and then it skipped to egypt and was overheard by an air maroc flight attendant who flew to SA and..............men what a mess!
What school would let someone sit for their comm if they failed their PPL? If this is your school, I suggest you jump ship because it is doing you no good ma friend.
Or better yet, get the facts of the story and then post it here. But then again, this forum is based on rumors....ma bad!

[red8]

Sorry guys...:\

What I wanted to say, but omitted, was that these students eventually after several pathetic tries manage to pass their PPL written exams. (I did fix it now)

It is just strange that these students, (I know of 5) suddenly pass all their computerized CAA tests first time.

And our PPL exams are really really easy to pass.....

[4HolerPoler]

red8, when you walk through the door tomorrow there will be two men in long black coats waiting for you. Go with them & blow the lid off this smoking gun. Please keep us posted.

>>Developing story<<

Proudly sponsored by http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/4HolerPoler/pplogonew3.gif

Remember - you heard it first on PPRuNe :ok:

[I.R.PIRATE]

Certain schools actually quote figures like those mentioned above, so its not a new thing. If something has been going on, its been doing so for a while.

[Fat Reggie]

I remeber a few years back that something like 25...?...Airline pilots for Alitalia were caught flying with fraudulent licenses.

Eleven were captains.

[Deanw]

I'm just speaking off the top of my head with no real knowledge of the exam process, so take the following from where it comes! :rolleyes:

Is there not a different process for foreign Com students and local students?

The foreigners write an open book exam, but the Com they receive is not good for work in SA/ZS aircraft. :hmm:

[Insane]

deanW, I don,t think that there is a seperate process for foreigners, many of my friends both SA and foreign did the same course with the same rules....no exceptions. A bit of a loose comment to make:oh:

[Gooneybird]

Unless something has changed in the last three years there's no such exception for foreiners.

If a foreiner wanted an easier theory exam for a comm that wasn't to be used in SA or on ZS registered aircraft there would be no need to train in SA at all. I did the SA comm and didn't think it was all that difficult but did include lots of irrevelant crap just like Europe.
The US and Canada have got their ducks in a row and safety records to back it up. I am European by the way.

[cavortingcheetah]

:hmm:

If memory serves, and sometimes it does not, some years ago in England there was a system in place with the CAA whereby foreign students, you know, the lot from Africa, Arabia or indeed, anywhere other than England, could write and fly the ATPL exams and tests. The standards they had to achieve were not much mooted generally, but it was understood that they received a UK ATPL with the endorsement that it was not to be used for flight within UK airspace. The purpose of this system, if it existed, was, of course, to enable the new ATPL holder to return to his country of origin and be issued with a validation there, based on the UK ATPL. This would then allow him to fly from his own nation, usually for the national airline.
This always was pure rumour and one has never seen such an endorsed licence, although one was several times on course with pilots from Iraq, Iran and Malaysia and it was quite understood that such was indeed the arrangement.
In fact, now that one casts memory back far enough, one remembers a course chum, an Iraqi, an excellent fellow, who was determined to achieve the 'full' British ATPL so that he could fly for an airline other than Air Iraq (or whatever). He was, even in those days, very concerned at the amount of radio active material being transported weekly into Baghdad on an Air france Jumbo!
Perhaps and possibly ZA/CAA has taken a leaf out of the UK book but, in dispensing with the endorsement, has conveniently forgotten to allow for a margin of error?
:eek:

[corndog]

This is not new. It is an old story that you can buy an EASY COM from the people working behind the desk at SACAA.

How the ones who were investigated during the scandal got away, god only knows.

How they managed to keep their jobs?!?!?!? How they managed to stay in the same positions?!??!?!

Anyway, they must have become a bit wiser as no Carte Blanche/ Special Assignment expose has been launched so far. Red8 PM me and I will give you the details of one of the big guns at MNET who has always been keen on getting stuff from me for Carte Blanche.

So, to throw another thing in the mix. I heard that all the questions and answers for the COMM exams have been posted on the internet by our famous friends at CAA Exams. You just need to come up with the right amount and voila you get the http.

Very clever if you ask me.

God bless the internet.:D

[Deanw]

On another forum, the question was asked if candidates could write open-book exams for their Com (the exam is unrelated to the instance related to this thread).

The SA CAA replied as follows:

The candidates referred to were writing Air Law and Procedures to obtain validations, which will allow them to fly outside the borders of South Africa only.


The approval from the Commissioner only provides for open book examinations for pilots flying for foreign operators, operating outside South Africa, utilising SA registered aircraft. These flights will not enter South African Airspace. Also the approval has been granted to specific operators that have made application in this regard.

[cavortingcheetah]

:hmm:

A South African licence issued to a pilot to enable him to fly a South African registered aircraft outside South Africa but not within South Africa itself is duplicitous in the extreme.
Presumably European, American and other CAAs are entitled to expect that all South African registered aircraft flying within their respective airspaces are being flown by a crew of uniform South African licence standard which has, to some extent at any rate, been approved by ICAO?
This is a vastly different, and potentially much more dangerous situation from that in which a pilot obtains a watered down South African ATPL, then obtains a Bongoland validation and flies one of their aircraft into LHR or JFK, when everyone can see him coming anyway.
Does SAA allow such open book rated pilots to fly its aircraft once outside the Republic's borders so that they can hone their skills on an unsuspecting world?. All change seats at the Limpopo! Bring on the second division!?:E

[Frallifraxer]

Someone told me that it´s´the guy called XXXXXXXX on the CAA office how can fix this for you. 15.000 Rand is the price they sad

Name removed. 4HP

[Goffel]

Frallifraxer.
I think you have just opened yourself to a very serious law suit with that allegation.

I certainly hope you have some valid proof to have actually named a CAA official in the exam room...(otherwise I think that particular person is just about to retire with your money).

And dont think that just because this is a rumour site that you are exempt from lawsuites with that type of allegation.

Eisch, the young and brave.:ugh:

Goffel by the mine dump.

[Frallifraxer]

Opps yes bad of me to name names sorry for that. The thing is that alote of guy´s know´s this **** is going so maybe it´s not a bad ide to check it out ???? Our maybe you want this to go on forever



Regarding the lawsuite yee they can try if they like

[Stierado]

cavortingcheetah,

I have to strongly disagree with you...

I did my CPL (Frozen ATPL) course in the UK and dispite being from Africa, at no time was I handed an easier, "wink wink nudge nudge" type exam!!!!

I worked my a**e off for those subjects and all the "local" boys sat in the same room as me writing the same exams.

The only thing that we did see/experience is the fact that various countries had their students merely "sit off" the time at the UK schools.
By that I mean that these guys were sent there for X months exactly, and regardless of their exam pass rate or final outcome of the course, they would return home to get their local country licenses only. AT NO TIME did the UK CAA issue anyone a less qualified/dont fly in UK airspace license.

Believe me, the UK CAA have never made it easy for me to do anything. When I eventually had the hours to "unfreeze" the ATPL, they wanted copies of airline AOC's, letters from MD's and pretty much anything else they could think of.

The school I went to had some of the oldest UK instructors in the business, and I never heard any of them mention any lesser licenses for foreigners.

[musaQ]

I know of 'west Africans' who didnt make it all on first attempt. They struggled with their PPL exams too. Doubt if there's fraud - maybe they worked real hard or were really lucky.

[forssi]

Well as of 1 May 2007, exams will also be written for your PPL at the CAA now.

"An ICAO Audit finding for the SA CAA has been that due to the lack of a national exam system at private pilot level, South Africa runs the risk of being found non-compliant during the ICAO Audit scheduled for June 2007. This could result in South African pilot licenses not being recognised internationally." ;)

[UnDies]

Forssi - the plan was to start the 1st May with all PPL exams to be undertaken at the CAA - however, planning on their side (CAA) failed and thus all PPL exams are still writen at the individual flight school.

[3rdBogey]

I remember well, some time back, that certain National pilots had been cornered and uncovered for cheating at their ATPL theory exams. Right? Well, what happened to them? Are they today your boss? Are they today flying YOUR children around as UM's? But then, does it really matter????? What does ONLY appear to matter, is that they are still holding those positions......
I have a feeling about why nothing ever was pushed in their case. Think about it, someone-somewhere, went to a great deal of trouble and effort to catch out these individuals. Correctly. But, assuming that their system was to be given the questions prior to writing, HOW ON EARTH CAN YOU EVER PROVE THAT THEY ARE RUBBISH-CHEAT-BRIGAND PILOTS????? They come in, like all others, sit down, complete the exam, now all on record, and VOILA!!! No problem! Practically impossible to prove! But I'm sure they are there still.
Oh yes, I do remember now, they later (collectively) said it was all a joke. Amazing.

[Sonny_S]

I've heard from a friend that was in johannesburg writing exams that this one day a few guys wrote navigation in like 15 minutes, didn't even open the charts and wrote 100% each... !

I don't know that to make of that...just sharing a rumour.. =)

/S

[Goffel]

Sheeeeeet........I did that as well.......sat down to write Met, did not open a chart, nor anything else, finished in 13 mins, pushed the button......and .....walllllllllaaaaaaah.

Failed....eisch...what did I do wrong...(just did not study, thats what I did wrong).

Just because your friend has a friend that has a chommie, that has an uncle who has a chick, who incidentally knows the doorman at the pub, who somehow heard on the news that Gunz is giving away FEE Tassies, does not actually mean it is true.

There are guys that have sat down, taken a chance with some of the questions and passed.

But to all the guys that are really adamant that there is something amiss, gets some ganonies and put pen to paper, sign your name and do something about it....Or ?????????????..

Simple dont you think.

Goffel..(still without an ATP).

[Contract Dog]

SS, If these guys finished in 15min flat, why did they stick round for 2 hrs to tell your mate their mark? Have just sat the exam and every person who left that hall in 15min, pass or fail, was nowhere to be found after that exam to brag about their marks.

There are enough questions floating around that are word for word to those that you get in the exam to the extent that in my nav paper, though I took the full 2 hrs to work it all out and double check, 50% of the questions were ones I had done at home and remembered the answers, did I cheat? no, just happend that the work I put in at home and mock exams I did were exactly the same questions that were in the exam!

Dog

[Hoveronly]

Well nothing like this would ever happen in Kenya! :hmm:

[Flygirl-69]

I used to work in a flight school environment and saw it first hand, regarding the guys who couldn't pass. Eventually after a good few hours they would get their PPL's a lot of them ended up not making the grade for the CPL exams. Not that I am defending anyone, I have also been a witness to someone who was involved in something fraudulent but nothing ever came of it. A lot can be bought for a price. I have also noticed, in my period there that a few of the guys realise after their PPL's how much work needs to be done and go and work their butts off to pass those exams, so I feel it is really half a dozen of one and six of the other....

[unstable load]

Back in my dim and distant youth I wrote the Nigerian Air Law and passed first time and a colleague was on his 3rd attempt and failed again. I am South African and he was a Brit...........something about colonialism, maybe.......:E:E

Only a rumour, mind you.

[at the beach]

psst........need a PhD

for a small fee.............contact DBN "uni"

fraud at CAA...............never............never (did anybody ever get taken to task for the saa chaps who seemed under Suspicion

:=:=:=:=:=

[B Sousa]

As one who has had a validation a few times in SA. I wish I knew how to go around things, but since I didnt, I took the Air Law and got my validation. As I always say, I liked it so much I took it twice. It was an interesting experience but I saw no signs of any fraud via the computer. I sat with others who were also taking a variety of different exams.
I actually think it was very Professionally handled, considering how things are going now.
If there is fraud, it would have to be done by those who know who to grease and not someone like me, just off the street.

[Foo-Fighter]

whatever comes from this...

...if anyone indeed has that question http:// ...i for one would really appreciate the link!

:}