Skygods here to save us all

[alidad]

A quote a news release today from AIPA:


Capt Glynn said the end of the turbulent bidding period was a particular relief for pilots.

"Qantas pilots are the guardians of the aviation industry,'' he said.

"As such, we are concerned about the future, especially when we hold the mantle of the world's safest airline in our hands.''


Is this for real- Do these people trully believe this?!!!!! O' dear.................

[Capt Fathom]

You could at least paste the whole article here, or provide a link.
Would hate to think you'd misquote it .. like journos do! :=

[greenslopes]

Nope it's true as reported in "The Australian",Believe it or not.

[alidad]

http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,23636,21692710-31037,00.html

[Howard Hughes]

So now can we stick the boots in?;) :}

[cunninglinguist]

..............thats not how we did it in Ansett :\

[noip]

Without having seen the text in question, I'd say Cpt Glynn made his statement in the context of Qantas, and what certain Management types appear to be doing. Having known him for some time, I doubt his comments were intended as a slur on others not in the company.

I'd suggest cutting him some slack .... and keeping our focus on the REAL threat.

N

[Clipped]

I'm ah ah, immediately thinking ... BKK .. BKK .. BKK .. BKK. Whoop whoop BKK .. BKK .. BKK .. w?nker.

[lightbeer]

Alidad,
how about opening your other eye and realising his comments are meant to shore up public support from Mr and Mrs Joe public, either reading this having their morning coffee or on morning TV.These are the people who think an aircraft stalls if you drop the clutch too quick. Playing the safety line seems pretty smart to me!

[Howard Hughes]

These are the people who think an aircraft stalls if you drop the clutch too quick.You mean it doesn't?:eek:
Luckily mine is an auto...;)

[Capt Kremin]

It looks like a union press blurb meant for general public consumption in the context of the events of the last few days. I am sure it wasn't meant to be taken as a slur against anyone.
If the aviation unions don't guard against the sort of rapacious arch-capitalism we have seen of late, who will? The media? the government?Take a chill pill guys...

[Ralph the Bong]

(quote) "Qantas pilots are the guardians of the aviation industry".

For the information of Captain Glynn and other Rodneys who belive this laughable garbage... oh Jeezus..!..(not sure whether to laugh or piss myself laughing...)...

Some crowd, in about 2000, (IAPA) did a series of audits on many airlines worldwide. They assessed the organisational health of companies looking at things like safety culture, safety systems, training, how they dealt with safety threats, internal auditing...etc...etc..

And Guess what????

QANTAS CAME 3RD!!!!!

Behind Air Canada and Ansett.

F#$%^ me gently...

"WE ARE THE SUPREME MASTERS OF ALL KNOWLEDGE, ARCANE..."
How can anyone say this sh!t with a straight face??

[mustafagander]

Air Canada and Ansett??? Hmmmm.

[Ralph the Bong]

Yes, Air Canada.

Really, this sort of crap is actually damaging to the aviation industry. Want to know why?

Because when this sort of rubbish is sprouted often enough, the rule makers and Joe Sixpack out there starts to only listen to one voice.
Just say, a very important safey issue arises (say, CAO 48 exemptions). If the myth that 'Qantas pilots are the guardians of the aviation industry' is permitted to perpetuate, then the valuable input from other sectors will tend to carry less weight or even be discarded.

That's why this sort of bulldust should be discredited and consigned to the dustbin, where it belongs.

[Capt Kremin]

..... and since neither of those two airlines exist any more....???

[Ron & Edna Johns]

For heavens sake.......

Isn't it just typical of Australian pilots and too often of the Australian attitude in general? A bloke says something to refocus the public, to remind them of the inherent VALUE within companies, namely the employees - all employees - and their professionalism. To refocus away from those who do nothing but financially re-engineer balance sheets to SUCK that value away. And what do you guys do? Start ripping him to shreds.

Mike Glynn is a thorough gentleman. If he was quoted accurately - IF - then he certainly wasn't intending to denegrate professional aviators not in QF. And he would correct his words no doubt if he could. He is attempting to remind the average Australian that PEOPLE within companies such as QF are valuable!

Take it for what he means, what he intends and stop whining and bitching at every opportunity. Crikey!!

[Capt Kremin]

Here is the entire release... I suggest reading it in context rather than taking a bit you don't like to slag off at.

QANTAS pilots say the airline's focus should now shift to rebuilding a sustainable, world-class airline, after the collapse of the private takeover bid.
Airline Partners Australia (APA) conceded defeat today in its $11.1 billion bid for Qantas, although it has not ruled out a fresh offer.

Australian and International Pilots Association (AIPA) acting president Captain Mike Glynn says there is no quick or easy fix to managing the airline.

The failure of the bid had meant an end to uncertainty for Qantas workers, he said today.

"Potential bidders for Qantas may try and court politicians and shareholders, but they risk ignoring 34,000 workers and families of the airline at their peril,'' he said.

"Pilots want to work to have a strong, profitable and growing Qantas and support the management to develop a plan for the future of the airline.''

Capt Glynn said the end of the turbulent bidding period was a particular relief for pilots.

"Qantas pilots are the guardians of the aviation industry,'' he said.

"As such, we are concerned about the future, especially when we hold the mantle of the world's safest airline in our hands.''

[Condition lever]

Can't see that there was any change to the context.

After all Qantas pilots are the guardians of the aviation industry - there aren't any other pilots are there?

[YesTAM]

To be fair to Qantas (for once) The travelling public (of whom I am one occasionally) think it is really safe to have a pilot who has either spent countless hours in a Mirage or F18, or alternatively has spent countless hours landing a C210 on a claypan.

Now you may think my beliefs pathetic, but the reality is that us SLF's think that the reason QF is safe is that the pilots are the best in the world, as are the engineers, as are the cabin crew.

You f*&ckwits may not know it, but that is the reputation you had in the mid 1970's

The problem is that QF has been doing everything possible to destroy that image in favour of an image involving cheap busdrivers and an all powerful, alll seeing, Board.

I will now go out on a limb: The pronouncements of the Board regarding Qantas mainlines's status as a "legacy"airline, and their similar cost cutting initiatives are counterproductive, to the point where they will destroy shareholder value - to whit, the good name of Qantas.


To put it another way, on the worst flight I have ever had, which involved multiple thunderstorms and the aircraft in front exiting the runway, the most calming feature was an Australian voice saying "This is your Captain Speaking".

I respectfully suggest that the value of those five words spoken in an Aussie accent, is more than most of you can possibly know.

[Keg]

Funny how we bag out the media on PPRUNE for taking comments out of context and not having the first clue of what is going on, but a report like this must simply be 100% accurate and in context. lol. You guys crack me up. Confirmation bias is alive and well I see.

You've seen a 'sound grab'. Who know's what context his comments were made in. I DO know that he's a PPRUNE reader and so no doubt will enjoy you clowns sounding off without the first clue as to what actually went down.

I haven't met a pilot yet from ANY company that didn't see themselves as the final guardian of flight standards. If an engineer is pushing you to take an aeroplane you don't like it's the pilots that stand up to it. If the management are pushing you to bust minimums to get the job done it's the pilots who tell them to get knotted. If schedulers are flying you illegally it's the pilots who tell them to shove the duty. Pilots ARE the final guardians in this industry. We are not the only ones because I consider LAMEs in the mix here too (although I've known them to BS me from time to time in order to take an aircraft that we felt wasn't up to the task) but in that context Mike's comments are entirely reasonable.

Further, management have continued to trade on QF's safety record (deserved or not) over the years. The public believes the perception (deserved or not) that QF IS the safest airline in the world. The rest of us know the truth but given that it's a public perception then I don't see the drama in reminding the public of the QF spin that they peddle. QF trade on them being safe and charge a premium for that perception. It's those exact punters that QF drivers need on their side.

More power to you Elwood. I'll back you- even if you can't sing to save yourself! :ok:

As for the rest of you clowns, you're hysterical. I just love watching people on pprune stick both feet in their mouths by the use of the keyboards. Keep at it lads because you're making a much more interesting statement about yourself then you are about Mike. :rolleyes: :E

[Ralph the Bong]

Yes Keg, what ever you say.:hmm:

You state that posters have made certain assumptions regarding context and then go on to do the same yourself. If this guy does read PPrune, let him come on and explain himself. If he has been quoted inaccurately, well and good, but in the past I've met a good many 'skygods' who wear a QF uniform who espouse this sort of drivel, (particulary those associated with GAPAN) and I retain some scepticism.

What you say about the guardianship of standards is correct. The quote in question relates to guardianship of the industry.

Qantas pilots are stakeholders in the 'guardianship of the industry', as are many others. I say that any suggestion along the lines that they are the sole custodians of the future of aviation is ludicrous. Anyone who thinks similarly need make no apology or feel bad for doing so, despite what you say.

The "best pilots in the world" myth is dangerous, irrespective of what ever guise it takes. This is because an attitude such as this inhibits the growth of a meaningful safety culture. Perhaps there are those at Qantas who will use the myth as a barganing chip in industrial relations matters, as you have alluded to. However, regardless of this, it still insults those pilots who are outside the Qantas mainline fold.

By making claims that marginalize other pilot groups (and here I'm thinking of other QF group pilots), AIPA is really making a rod for its own back; these people will never support you when you will need them to. I suggest that that time is closer than you think, particularly in view of recent events.
The defence of Capt Glynn by yourself and others is commendable. He should be allowed a fair hearing on this forum to explain his words, if he wishes to do so. Given the text in the news, it would be a wise thing to do so.


YesTAM, of the 4 truely frightening pilots I've flown with over the years, 3 spoke with Australian accents.

[Buster Hyman]

Dunnunda & Godzone conceded defeat today in its bid for legitimacy, although it has not ruled out a fresh attempt.

Pprune contrbutor & acting Monarchist, Buster Hyman says there is no quick or easy fix to maintaining the reputations on Pprune.

The failure of the Moderators had meant an end to uncertainty for Pprune contributors, he said today.

"Potential posters on Pprune may try and court politicians and Danny, but they risk ignoring 34,000 advertisers and families of the airline staff at their peril,'' he said.

"Posters want to work to have a strong, profitable and growing Pprune and support the moderators to develop a plan for the future of the forum.''

Buster Hyman said the end of the turbulent bitching period was a particular relief for pilots.

"Qantas pilots are the guardians of the aviation forums,'' he said.

"As such, we are concerned about the future, especially when we hold the mantle of the world's dumbest threads in our hands.''

[Shot Nancy]

..... and since neither of those two airlines exist any more....???

Well Capitano Kretin I saw aircraft today with Air Canada painted on the side.

Keg,
Do you really drink your own bathwater?

[I'm Driving]

Nancy
Last Night someone had posted a correction to that statement with "Canadien". And yes I know it was spelled incorrectly. But they have since removed it. So I'm not sure what the truth is.

Excuse me, I'm Driving.

[Lucius Vorenus]

Ralph,

AIPA is really making a rod for its own back;Yes. But that is nothing new.

A president arrogantly dismissed the Impulse/Jetstar pilots in 2003 and he, they, and the pilots he represented paid and continue to pay the price.

Now, arrogance being the style du jour, the same sorry lot tell us that there is really a cunning plan, that AIPA's conversion into a vexacious litigant is the right thing to do but we have to, so the hired help tells us, be ethical! The people who can't even keep our allowances at cabin crew levels say yes, but we must be ethical!

Ralph, if AIPA isn't even relevant to it's own pilots now,how could it ever be relevant to anyone else?

[Condition lever]

Lucius,

Couldn't agree with you more.
AIPA has to show the rest of the pilot community that it is a valid option for representation of the whole, not just -400 Skippers.

Continued statements like the afore mentioned only reinforce the perceived arrogance of no doubt a vocal minority at QF.
It is irrelevant how good a bloke Mike Glynn is (as would appear Keg's major defence) he has to be hed accountable for what he actually said - and as a representative of AIPA he must perhaps be more select in his comments.

I am just happy at the moment that I have not joined AIPA, as I would hate to see my contributions being hemorrhaged on useless litigation. An example of which I have heard (so I would be happy to be corrected) is $200K spent in representing a -400 Captain who wouldn't take his shoes off at a security screening - are there really those who don't think the "Sky God" mentality isn't alive and well at QF?

Cheers

[Capt Fathom]

An example of which I have heard (so I would be happy to be corrected) is $200K spent in representing a -400 Captain who wouldn't take his shoes off at a security screening
Oops. Standby to be corrected! :E

[lowerlobe]

Lucius Vorenus...I understand that there will always be politics involved in unions and employment but could you give me examples of when tech crew get less allowances than cabin crew?

[noip]

ll,

JNB and LAX for starters.

N

[Condition lever]

Fathom,

By all means correct away.
Are you saying that there wasn't a QF Captain that refused to take his shoes off?
Or that it didn't cost AIPA $200K?

Your post didn't correct either of these.

[I'm Driving]

Condition Lever.
It was a 767 captain. And how much it cost defend him, I have no idea, just like you i suppose. What did they have to defend him from?

[lowerlobe]

noip..I admit that I have not been to JBhurg for many a year but I do a lot of States trips and I have never seen Techies get less than us (for the same slip).
Your union did a deal or trade off with the company a few years back to change away from the formula based on Departure time and I've seen tech crew on a number of occassions get more than us.I was always told that it was because you went on arrival time instead (ex LHR).

[Freddy Fudpucker]

lowerlobe, Techies do get less than cabin crew in all LH ports. Check it out next time you're in asia,LHR,FRA,JNB or LAX. It is do to with you guys signing off on a new deal and techies taking the company to task and not signing anything new. Just look at the single meal allowance figures rather than the total amount.

As for Capt Glynn I can only assume that his words were not meant to offend anyone, moreover an ego pat on the back due to the demise of the APA bid.

In the rat there are guys who think they are gods gift, but not anymore than what you would get in other airlines.

[Keg]

I see that Lucius is actively trying to re-write history:

A president arrogantly dismissed the Impulse/Jetstar pilots in 2003 and he, they, and the pilots he represented paid and continue to pay the price.

Now, arrogance being the style du jour, the same sorry lot tell us....

A president dismissed the Impulse pilot group in 2001.....this is not the same lot that head AIPA now.

I don't recall dismissing the J* pilot group in 2003.....it's still a different mob now given that the 2003 mob got turfed out on their ear.

I'm not a fan of being in court 100% of the time but that isn't all of AIPA's doing. It's been a pretty consistent message from AIPA on engagement with the company.

Condition Lever continues to delude himself with his confirmation bias. You're as ignorant as the people that I come across every now and then who believe that J* must be crap because the audit results aren't published and on the basis of what a mate's mate's girlfriend told them. I tell them that they're not even getting half the story and to continue to believer something when you don't have the full story is going to bring you grief. So lose the chip on the shoulder and stop deluding yourself about AIPA based upon what you hear from those who have a significant interest in keeping the pilot groups at each other's throats.

PS: You do realise that J* has some members of AIPA and that when Mike talks about 'QF pilots' he's talking all those who are group pilots.

Finally, maybe Mike will respond on PPRUNE, maybe he won't. He won't lose any sleep over Ralph, Lucius and Condition Lever though.....their form is well known! ROFL.

Lowerlobe, AIPA and QF are still in dispute over allowances and yours is more than ours in some ports. We haven't moved to the new system based on arrival times yet- if ever. Swings and roundabouts.

[Keg]

One last point too in case I didn't make this clear.

Knowing Mike pretty well I'm very confident that he has a good handle on where QF pilots fit into the industry. His response was meant for public consumption specifically regarding the Qantas buy out debacle and I'm very confident that he wouldn't set out to denigrate the work of other pilots and what they do for upholding the standards of their respective companies. I guess this is what happens when people with a very specific agenda (anti-QF drivers) read things they way that they want them to be read. Perhaps 'guardians of Qantas standards' may have been a better way to express the intent of Mike's comments.

Anyway, I've said my bit. I still reckon you lot are a bunch of clowns with chips on your shoulders looking for ANY reason to lay one on the so-called 'sky-gods'. Whatever floats your boat I guess. :rolleyes:

So 'stick with it' Ralph, Lucius et al because the people who read PPRUNE that really know what is going on know the hole you guys are digging for yourselves. So keep digging lads, it looks like a nice hole so far! :rolleyes:

[gaunty]

Keg mate.

Dont know the guy, but I'm happy to accept your view of the matter?

The ruckus though does point out very clearly why what we say and what other people hear are often two different things and why anybody used to speaking to the public arena usually has some training and/or the bruises and benefit of some hard won experience.

Pilots as a group are trained to think in very specific ways and communicate in a pretty standard form, thier loives and the safety of their passengers demands it. To an untrained observer, aviation comms are pretty much incomprehensible. To an untrained observer, anyone from PPL up is an expert in aviation, whether they hold themselves out as so or not.

I know what he was trying to say, but the choice of words was unfortunate. And to be brutally honest his message did get confused with the perception raised by the ghosts of Christmas past rattling their bones.:E

You like I have been around here long enough to know that if that ever was the case QF1 rang the chimes of change. You would also have to agree that the legends in their own lunchbox, many totally insufferable, did dig their fellow pilots a very deep hole out of which to climb. :sad:


Anyway I always thought the "Mantle of Safety" actually belonged to John Flynn.:= :ok:

[The Kavorka]

Let the sky gods bask in their own glory..................
According to The Great One G.D, they will continue the expansion of JQ and let the skygods die a slow death.........
Also heard the other day 3-5 A380's look like being painted in grey and orange.....that will stir them up a bit....:D :D

[Howard Hughes]

Anyway I always thought the "Mantle of Safety" actually belonged to John Flynn.Or at the very least, to those who continue is legacy...;)

[Douglas Mcdonnell]

Aaaahhhhhhh guardians of the industry eehhh.

Thanks for that Warren!!!.

It sounds like a hand party is being had by all involved.

DM

[BombsGone]

Whilst I'm sure some Qantas pilots have been guilty of arrogance. There appears to be a lot of jealousy evident in this thread.

If Qantas does not need to pay a premium to attract and select the best applicants, or indeed airline flying has become so easy any cpl can aspire to do it, then pay and conditions will surely fall. Probably to around the level of a bus driver.

S!it stir over.

Tin hat on.

:D :D :D

[Ralph the Bong]

Gee Wizz Keg, it looks like you've really had your buttons pushed. Not my intention to wind your spring. I'm not anti-QF pilots at all, but I do follow the great Australian tradition of bagging out the bulldust when I see it.

For your responses, I can see that you and many at QF have been under a fair bit of stress lately. Fair enough, all forgiven. Perhaps there is also some in-fighting within AIPA and hence any criticism of your president is to be resoundly squashed. This is a difficult time that your union faces. It's none of my business, so I wont press the point.

As for "jealousies" or "chips on the shoulder" wrt to Qantas, I simply don't have any and why would I? Post Ansett, I've enjoyed career progress, pay, status and satisfaction WAY beyond what would have been on offer had I gone to QF in 2001. I am aware that many of my fellow workmates who did go to QF as 2nd officers have now realised that there are far better options and have moved on. Some of them have moved from SOs at QF to Command position at J*.

I recieved an email from a poster who says that the media release containing the quote in question was writen by PR people and the AIPA president signed it. I find it believable that this could be the case. In any event, it is a far more palatable explaination for all concerned than he came up with crap like that himself. It probably wasn't the best move to put his name to it though, was it?

Anyway, I do understand the frustrations that you guys feel as J* expands, Tigers lurk, the middle eastern carriers lie in wait and your very own managers threaten the career aspirations of mainline QF pilots; the disgusting manner in which the A330 guys have been treated is a case in point. The industry is changing and from what I've seen, AIPA is not doing a very good job at present of adapting to the the new order of things. I say this joylessly, simply observing. But I am a suvivour, and you must learn to adapt, as I have.

I wish you luck.

[Lucius Vorenus]

Ralph,

Congrats on a successful career turnaround.

Your point about challenges to QF pilots is well made.

Keg,

As for the rest of you clowns, you're hysterical. I just love watching people on pprune stick both feet in their mouths by the use of the keyboards. Keep at it lads because you're making a much more interesting statement about yourself then you are about Mike. :rolleyes: :EI'm sure that you are good at regurgitating the spin from "New AIPA". But might I suggest you examine a few facts :

1. Since arrival due process has not been followed; New AIPA can't even keep minutes.
2. Allowances and accomodation is a disaster.
3. Many thousands of dollars wasted on hopeless legal action
4. Jetstar slots occupied by QF pilots (but negotiated by "old AIPA")
5. No progress on LH EBA or A380 or B787 T & Cs
6. No progress on sharing of blank lines or other rostering improvements
7. No recommendation on SH EBA from the Committee.


Do you want me to continue?

Oh, and by the way Keg, I'm sure Mike is a nice fellow. That is not the point. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

So keep digging lads, it looks like a nice hole so far! :rolleyes:Keg, I don't have a few thousand posts like some... maybe you're the one who should stop digging?

[Capt_SNAFU]

Lucius what do you make of the fact that they didn't recommend the SH Deal? What is wrong with AIPA not endorsing?

Personally I think it is because they think it is a bad deal, and have such sent it to the pilots without endorsement in the hope that they will vote it down in the way that Virgin Pilots did when they were offered a bad deal. Thus empowering the negotiators

As for your other points, a couple are valid but the, 787 380 T&C, rostering would not have been handled any better by old AIPA, unless of course you think that Italians handled themselves well in WWII. Surrender at every turn. Just look at J* when it started. That was well handled by old AIPA, was it not? If you think that Jetstar slots came around because of anything other than a shortage, Like Jet connect slots then you are kidding yourself.

[Lucius Vorenus]

Snafu,

What is wrong with AIPA not endorsing? Well they can do what they like but my point is they are selected to evaluate all the facts and make recommendations. They have been elected to provide guidance and leadership and when they don't you get people confused and just milling around aimlessly like they are now. For heavens sake, if COM can't take up a position..any position how are the rest of us supposed to?

As to the deal, well, it might not be everything you want but if the total package is a fair deal then we should vote for it.

the, 787 380 T&C, rostering would not have been handled any better by old AIPA,So old AIPA didn't handle the A330 intoduction well? Old AIPA didn't handle the sharing of Blank lines well? I guess if you say something often enough you start to believe it...

Yes, AIPA had one chance to get the confidence of Impulse/Jetstar in 2003. A difficult chance but the keeper was asleep and muffed it.

Looking ahead Snafu, we need to stop using terns like "surrender", "WWII" etc. This is not war..it is business.

Business is usually best conducted by negotiation after first doing one's homework. My point is that the current lot, on all evidence, are doing neither.

[Capt_SNAFU]

The total package for shorthaul is to be frank not good enough. With back pay perhaps. But as it stands it is not. It has some good points, but in total not enough. Even if profits weren't at record levels and pilots weren't increasingly becoming harder to find (look at Jet connect offer, DJ cancelling flights, JQ commands) or if the company seemingly didn't have 4 billion ready to be taken out, without any sort of recompense for work done since the last rise in 2004 the deal would not be good enough. It's only taken almost two years since the expiry of the last to get a deal to even put to a vote. Whose fault is it that the company didn't start talking until six months after the deal had expired. Given that all the above points are true then it would seem that if we can't get a substantial deal now, what can we expect when times aren't so good. Already have proved when times are bad (SARS 9/11) that as a group we do things for the good of the company, so why can we not expect when times seemingly don't get any better than this to not reap some fair reward. I'm not talking about taking the company for a ride or asking it to bend over.

The non endorsement would seem to mean that the negotiators can get no further, so they want the pilots to decide. The fact that it is not endorsed implies that it is not endorsed. The silence says a lot.
The A330 was introduced well in T&C, but I doubt many of the guys are loving being on it at the moment. You think that old AIPA would have been able to achieve anything more on its current state than new, GD suddenly going to start loving mainline again. I doubt it. As to the 787 a mr H was quoted in one Flt ops newsletter to secure the 787 for mainline. We would could work more for less. Sounds like a great deal.

As to the keeper muffing the chance. It understandable to let in a goal when you are ahead in a dead rubber. It is a completely different thing to be asleep when you are in the championship decider. Most of the other things pale into insignificance when looked at compared to that monumental F UP.

[max autobrakes]

Golly gosh Lucius you must have skulled a hogshead of vinegar to come out with all that bile.
You keep refering to a certain character who stuffed it with regards to the Impulse pilots.
I've spoken to one of those Impulse chaps who first approached AIPA, those many moons ago, about coverage, and the individual you keep trying to blame was not the one who first ignited the ire of this group. That dubious honour goes to the AIPA president at the time ,our own present chief pilot ,.:eek:

[podbreak]

Gosh, the fact that information dumbed for public consumption has angered so many really says alot.

These comments were designed for public processing (as in very simplistic); QF is the biggest company in the Australian aviation industry, it can therefore have the greatest influence (keep it simple, stupid). Having the greatest influence - and therefore responsibility - the group becomes the 'guardian', if you will. Put it even simpler, if QF collapsed, it would be more catastrophic than any other Australian operator collapsing.

So how about getting your hands off it.

[TwinNDB]

F*ck Me!

Divide and conquer has been the go in aviation and we as a group of professionals have done absolutely f*ck all to combat the problem.

Until we ALL learn that our futures are to a certain extent interrelated none of us are going to excell.

No wonder the management groups of the airlines think they can keep f*cking us over. Get over a quote and realise there are greater problems that face us all.

Twin.

[Buster Hyman]

QF is the biggest company in the Australian industry, it can therefore have the greatest influence (keep it simple, stupid). Having the greatest influence - and therefore responsibility - the group becomes the 'guardian', if you will
I'm sure you mean in the Australian aviation industry because the Coles group has roughly 190,000 employees which makes QF look like the corner shop.

But, I digress, one mans "guardian", is another mans "dictator"...:hmm:

You take your hands off first...:=

[blueloo]

Imagine having all your giant egos let loose in one room! The room would implode and the world might actually be a better place!

Seriously, you all have to get your hands off it!

[bushy]

Qantas is an airline much like many other airlines, and Qantas pilots are competent pilots, like thousands of other airline pilots.They are not skygods. We expect nothing less from any airline.
Qantas has been financially sucessful. It has also been protected from competitors by the government.

The comment that was made was most inappropriate.

[International Trader]

Qantas,....mantle of the safest airline in the world?

To deny the obvious and multiple blunders in airmanship and CRM of the "Bang Kok"......ACCIDENT!!!!!, to the point of almost not admitting it happened ,suggests some major safety issues. Red Flags at full mast!!
I would say they hold the cloak with which they mask their short comings.

Guardians of the industry?
Sat on their fat ars.. ( wallets) in 89 and did nothing.
Used political pressure to cement their position during the approach to Ansett's demise.
Screwed the pooch for decades, and now facing a wholesale shafting from their management, and what do they do? Jump up and down screaming "blue murder". Guardians of the "I'm all right ,Jack" mentality.

Engineering excellence?
Were there not parts falling off their 767s in flight?
Any findings or action regarding this problem. I believe that Ansett 767 were grounded due to paperwork problems not bits falling from aeroplanes.


Flight attendants...........well ,anyone who has ever had the honour of basking in their magnificence during a flight would have an opinion.I know I do.

May be having your "hand on it" is part of their Company Policy or Procedures.
Warren must have just be doing a little refresher study to keep up his standard . Just keeping his "hand in", so to speak.

This guy( Cpt ?) , nice guy or not, is still a QF wan...., well you know.


:yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

[Ron & Edna Johns]

You lot still raving on about this? Fair dinkum girls, you're just sending yourself to early graves! Get over it!
As I look around here, it's no wonder D&G is rapidly becoming my "last-stop-shop" on the www..................... :bored::ugh:

[Towering Q]

Hey!...GA and Questions is still OK.:8

[Trevor the lover]

Don't know Capt Glynn, don't care.
But I don't believe he would make a comment like that with the intent to have it sound like it did.

Here are 2 ways he could have said better what he really meant.

"Pilots are the guardians of the aviation industry, the last line of defence in the safety chain."
ie pilots in general over the whole industry, not QANTAS pilots guarding the whole industry.

or

"Qantas pilots are the guardian of Qantas's high standards, the last line of defence in this airline's safety chain."
ie Qantas pilots look after Qantas's standards, not everyone else's.

So, not so much a point of context as a poor choice of words. I truly believe this is what the guy meant.

Trevor the thinker

[longjohn]

There was a time many many years ago when being a Qantas pilot was a fairly exclusive position, I don't know about 'Guardian' but certainly they were a small specialist group. They also held a fairly contemptuous attitude to other pilot groups (i.e. split from AFAP)

Today, QF pilots account for around 2/3 of the airline pilots in this country, hardly an exclusive position. I belive this is what Keg et.al are trying to convey. Times have changed.

Unfortunately Capt Glynn either has not thought outside the QF box, or still holds the myopic views of 25 years ago and has made a freudian slip. Unfortunate yes, but not the end of the world.

The more we all bicker at comments like this on chat rooms the more management will divide and conquer.

Build a bridge....................

[Don Esson]

Put a sock in it as this is getting to be as boring and as tedious as a certain unspecified event of the late 1980's.:ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

Yes, I know I don't have to read it!:ok: