EK Resignations

[gatvol2006]

The 2 buckets R the big fatty in the chair and the white haired wandering around the passages I'm sure. Nothing better to do in their office time but to stirr on pprune!!:} Idjits

[gatvol2006]

Apply to EK, I'm sold that there are a couple of characters (done by one of course) that are tasked to sit on this site and throw propoganda? Think about it, pprune is the only democratic way we can have our say. They going to have to have a anti deter!!!;)

[southflyer]

Add one more, I just turned mine in...

[geespot]

Me too. Was told by PP that one other the same day as me but he was giving up flying.............

[nolimitholdem]

I can tell you there will be one other going in first thing on Sunday!
:}
Can anyone tell me who is the best one to submit a resignation to? Someone in ops or would HR be better? No one seems to know who's running the show these days.
For an excellent synopsis of what Dubai's really like:
UAE Report (http://uaereport.1majorhost.com/)
Of course, if you actually live in Dubai you won't be able to see this page without one of the technical workarounds.

[geespot]

just email your fleet manager!i followed up with a signed letter but i have spoken to others and all they did was send an email and they were phoned, sometimes in half an hour and that was that.............

[Gulf News]

That UAE Report link is mind-blowingly accurate. Says almost everything and provides links to just about all the bulls__t we have been on about for the last few years, reccommended reading for all UAE wannabees,

[nolimitholdem]

thanks geespot.

Perhaps if the fleet manager/HR/take your pick had responded to, or even so much as acknowledged previous emails/voicemails/desperate pleas for communication, the resignation would not even be going in.

irony is so, like, ironic.

[Ghostflyer]

The UAE Report is factually correct but has little effect on most peoples lives here. Ok I can't get pregnant but I am actually quite pleased that I don't have to watch tonsil hockey games at the beach. Shows what a saddo I have become.

Its an Islamic country with Islamic laws which many people, including locals, regularly break in their own homes without any comeback just like in the rest of the world. Having a Boy/Girlfriend, holding hands etc is not a problem. Getting pi$$ed and shagging someone on the dancefloor in Rock Bottoms is more likely to be noticed.

Lets face it Dubai is to most people a pretty open society and gets more so as they try to attract tourists from around the world. The Sheiks don't want you doing it on the doorstep but 'out of sight, out of mind'.

Most people that resign leave because the company has pissed them off or the people/drivers but not the police and government. The most likely reason I will leave is to do with kids education and job opportunities not sharia law.

[Flying Spag Monster]

Bugger..you saw that! I thought no one noticed....

[cvfly]

one more..me..:)

[Da Do Ron Ron]

The UAE report link won't open :-(

[nolimitholdem]

Try this link:
UAE Report Mirror (http://uaereport.1majorhost.com/)

[4HolerPoler]

Best wishes cv - I'm sorry that it's come to a stage where you're just one in a whole que of guys and folk are more concerned trying to open a web-link than considering how significant the outporing will be.

4HP

[hotndusty]

Firstly, the problems at EK which motivate people to leave can be, I believe, mostly solved non-monetarily ,and sadly, the driver behind all decisions adopted here is money and nothing more. The common complaint amongst all of us seems to be HR related - ie: 1)being awarded the leave due to you keeping in mind that the majority of people here are 'foreign' and would certainly like to see friends and family more than once a year or two. 2) Crew control - where is the 'manager'?..Emirates has turned a 90+ hour month into the norm and has such created a new 'industry' standard that appears to be on the verge of being 'expanded'..aside from absolutely no regard/respect for day/night/timezones and the ill effect on health, etc. we truly lack a 'manager' who is willing and able to put some reasonableness into this whole equation; and the excuse of understaffing, etc has run it's course. I'm sure I speak for the majority - pilots' at EK are not afraid of hard work but, as we tell our CHILDREN, respect goes both ways?
3) We've adopted a reserve system with the intent that for 20% ( based on 5 bid groups)of our working lives we will be on call, however, as time goes on even that good will is eroding. When a pilot reaches the top two bid groups it's reasonable to assume that desirable rosters should be expected. However, what now commonly occurs is the removal of flying for training or otherwise ("post -roster" publication, etc) with these trips replaced by available days; obviously what follows are highly undesirable trips that someone accepts/expects in the bottom bid groups but not the top. Hence, for what should be a bit of give and take with this bidding system frequently turns out to be an unmitigated disaster. I believe once again that 'understaffing' is a common response to the concerns?
3. How about a company that practices what it preaches? When things go wrong what happened to "it's not who's right, it's what's right?"...we live in a society (corporate or otherwise), where as long as blame can be apportioned to one individual the problem is solved. In my opinion there is a crippling lack of credibility where departments and individuals tasked with specific job functions do not have to be responsible for their actions - now I've heard for years that performance of individual(s)or departments is directly proportional to pay, etc..well, that may or may not be the case but who's problem is that?- the commander?
I realize I'm being long winded but if there is frustration at Emirates as to why there are too many resignations, well, how about looking at the obvious? As important as safety audits and CRM programs are, if you don't include everybody from top to bottom in these programs I think it's a waste of time/money/resources - when will somebody here stand back, take a breath, attempt to see where this thing is heading and then make some tough decisions that will bring the most important asset, the people, together?

[cvfly]

Best wishes cv - I'm sorry that it's come to a stage where you're just one in a whole que of guys and folk are more concerned trying to open a web-link than considering how significant the outporing will be.

4HP

Thanks 4HP

[picu]

In bocca al lupo CV!

[cvfly]

crepi..:ok: ....

[lois lane]

I get the impression that more pilots than usual are resigning from ek at the moment.If so are they a mix of fo and cpt? Are they off the Bus or the Boeing? Has there been a net loss or gain of pilots lately considering the ammount of training they are doing?

[Scooter Rassmussin]

So if your rostered into overtime why not reject the extra flying. :rolleyes:

[kingoftheslipstream]

2 FOs off my course of 8 didn't even wait to the end of their three years, they both departed before 2.5 years.
I just met another friend, a DEC, who quit with less than three years... he doesn't care...he's just leavin'! Had 'nuff. Bye bye...
Pretty sad.
My DEC buddy told me he asked about the resignations at his "departure interview" - HR person outlined that about 60 have quite so far this year, and that it's not serious enough for them to worry about.
He got a nice letter from his fleet mgr - in spite of leavin' early...

I notice this thread started a long time ago... It was started more than 2 yrs ago... it was even binned by the mod 4HP, once, but somehow resurrected isself...Since nothing has changed, in spite of best efforts, record profits etc. I don't reason there's any hope for change now is there?

sigh
k-o-t-s

[ZQN]

Three Captains so far this month. One to easyJet Madrid, one to Mango in SA and the other just leaving.

[Ketek400]

I think it stays simple. If you dont like it here then go."Different strokes for different folks"

[Gillegan]

I'm guessing that in the next 6-8 months, we might see a significant increase in your -'s. The recruitment and retention is not keeping pace with the expansion and this factoring policy is just their first desperate reaction. I wouldn't be surprised to start seeing similar policies on sickness as the cabin crew, forced duties on days off and the like. Of course, this won't do anything to improve the core problem of recruitment and retention, but since when has pro-activeness been part of the human resource arsenal anyway?

[emratty]

The steady exodus continues with 12 pilots leaving in July alone, the saying filling the bath with the plug out springs to mind!

[Fart Master]

Try 14:ok:

[Schnowzer]

How do we know 14? Is it rumour or confirmed? On the portal their are 5!

[White Knight]

Schnowser - I've got 12 showing on "my" portal, 6 from the LHS and 6 from the RHS...

[Fart Master]

Go to July 31st, plus 1 that the RG code was only shown for 1 day earlier on in the month:ok:

[mini cooper]

I believe that there are CONSIDERABLY more who have put their resignation in the system but they are not showing yet (40+?)
:}

[MR8]

The best way to check people leaving is via the seniority list on the portal. It's kept very well up to date. People who are still flying in their notice period will show up of course, but once they are gone, they are also out of the seniority list. Only way to check who really left...

MR8

[AN FO fossil]

Just a question. Quite apart from the whole retention issue and the recruitment difficulties.

What would you expect to be a normal resignation rate from an expat airline with say 1500 pilots?

Maybe 200 per year? 15 or 20 a month?

=========

Don't misunderstand me. I'm a line guy and am happy to see upward presure on pay. But I was just thinking that you have to expect a high turnover in a place like this.

[Aircav]

AN FO,

I think you need to look at the percentage resignation rate for each year and then decide for yourself if there is an increase or not.

I know the answer already, but be sure to forward it higher up because like you I think they are not looking at the right statistics.:ugh:

Enjoy the math.

[AN FO fossil]

Interesting point. Yes things have changed.

Is it a case of going from great times to normal? Or is it a case of going from well managed to crisis?

Hmmmm......

[ernestkgann]

About two years ago this airline went from a couple of resigs/retirement a year to the present rate, possibly 120+. Anecdotally, Ed said about 4% was ok for this kind of a rock show but we must be running at about 8% at the moment. I met another mate today who was resigning without a job to go to.
It has always intrigued me that for a business that strives to control cost across the park, they are happy to accept a huge training cost in terms of upgrades and transition to cover the departures. Given that the bond is $36 000 then 120 trg ocurrences (transition/upgrade) should cost the company $4 320 000 not to mention the time lost on the line.
My logic is probably wrong but it seems a huge cost for Timmy's arrogance.

[fractional]

I've got 12 showing on "my" portal, 6 from the LHS and 6 from the RHS... That's fair and balanced.

[Marooned]

AN FO

I see your point but EK is not a normal expat airline. 1500? nearer 2000 and they need twice as many if they are to cope with the amount of proposed aircraft due over the next few years. Any resignations hit them hard and threefold; firstly the loss of experience, secondly the need to replace those who have gone before thirdly getting the numbers they need to cope with the continued expansion.

And they are NOT coping... the stress of which is being felt throughout the training department who are trying to deal with a mixed bag of DECs, outsourced training and new 'levels' of experience generally...

EK is in a state of flux and crisis manages from day to day. Planning has historically been the weakest link together with underestimation of the pressure it has put on all of the employees in and out of the flight deck. The infrastructure just is not strong enough to cope and the results could be catastrophic.

Yes expats airlines can expect some attrition but EK needs all of the pilots (good experienced pilots) it can get and cannot afford to lose anyone. But the market is changing and EK is not what it once was and what it pays millions to appear to be. There are other options for 777/330/340 pilots with the kind of experience EK pilots have, an asset EK constantly undervalues.

The resignations will continue. My only hope is that TCs will be in sooner rather than later so that we can turn things around before it is too late... then again perhaps it already is.

[fatbus]

My guess is nothing will be done to the T/C's until May 08. Any change now will only admit there is a problem and you all know that wont happen, same as off line bases wont happen.

[mini cooper]

EK is coping well, we all know this is true because management say so!!!!!!!!!
On another topic about not coping at EK, when was the last time you saw a training department advertising in a newsletter for trainers:
Join Flight Training, Help us to help you!
OPEN TO ALL
They must have real problems to have to resort to a general advert. I suppose the "OPEN TO ALL" policy is just to try and get some applications no matter how suitable. My problem though is that the 'open to all' policy will backfire in time, especially as the training department has a 'no sacking policy' ie you have to resign to leave, they won't push!! Hence the reason some of the less suitable trainers got accepted and more to the point are still there!!! You can be a great pilot but this does not mean that you will automatically make a good trainer.
It is so simple,to get the experienced pilots who have something to give to training to want to become trainers you have to give them a good enough package with decent terms and conditions and also enough time off to recuperate. Until that happens there will be less and less good people willing to apply to training, you will unfortunately still get the run of the mill types!!!!

[Vorsicht]

Yeah, it tells a story doesn't it.

When has anyone ever seen an add for training captains which effectively says "no qualifications required".

Surely another sign of the times.

V

[Marooned]

V

At least they are standardizing the training department qualifications with recruitment generally...

There is only one way we are going with all this and it's not up.

[vbrules]

Thylakoid...'invited to leave'?...any more on this? An outstation incident?

[airbus757]

I know what is coming next. Direct Entry Trainers. If they can't get them from within they will look elsewhere.

7

[flareflyer]

Who knows the exact number of resignations from the beginning of the year?

[Gulf News]

know what is coming next. Direct Entry Trainers. If they can't get them from within they will look elsewhere.

Legend has it that a few years ago in an uncharacteristic demonstration of forward thinking AAR contacted one of the well known pilot contract agencies and inquired about the availability of B777 Instructors. The agency assured him that there were a significant number on the agency books. He then identified himself as DVP of all things great at the "keep discovering" airline and claimed that he would have as many training captains as the agency could supply because his current ones were of the "lazy pilot" variety. The agency replied somewhat cautiously that nearly all the training captains registered on their books already worked for Emirates.
Probably not entirely factual but a good story none the less.

[Diesel8]

"Yes! We are all individuals!"

I'm not!

[atpcliff]

Hi!

A few years ago I was very gung ho on Emirates. My buddy is interviewing in 2 weeks.

I think that I will not be applying, based on what I have read the past few months.

I am at:
Almost 4000TT
1100 PIC Jet (small)
3000 ME Jet
400 Heavy
Some Atlantic Experience
Some European Experience
Middle Eastern Experience

If I am going to apply for an international flying job like Emirates, I think I will apply at Atlas instead (they will be hiring in about 6 months).

cliff
KLRD

[GoreTex]

cliff,
wise decision, in atlas they'll treat you with respect and you live in a free country, well at least most of the peaple think they are free.
when I joined Ek it was good but I would rather e with atlas now.

[mini cooper]

Just noticed LOTS of people resigning at end of July ie RG 31/07, sorry if its old news but haven't taken much notice recently.....

[Blue-Footed Boobie]

atpcliff

Go on...apply, you will get a free trip to Dubai and wish you were somewhere 30 deg cooler..

Blue Foot

[atpcliff]

Hi!

If I came to interview, I'd bring my CEO. She likes it hot.

FL, TX, AZ, Northern Mexico are too cold for her. We go on vacation to PHX and Mexico in Jul.

She likes it where the temp never goes below 24 degrees anytime during the year. 40+ is OK.

cliff
LRD

[Bangkok Layover]

why dont all u guys try 5 star Qatar Airways??? :ugh:

you REALY would see the difference! :ugh: :mad:

[max AB]

Perhaps BL they read your other posts where you say things like this.... Stay where u belong!....you are not welcome in this region! and decide that the "difference" is a bit to much for them.

[BYMONEK]

So, the questions are Thylakoid, how long have you been here and when are you leaving for greener pastures?

" ENJOY A FEW MONTHS "?

I know not one single person who's come here and stayed only a few months enjoying it. Those that enjoy it, stay. Those that only stayed a few months, I suspect rather disliked the place.

[nolimitholdem]

Pedantry.

I think perhaps he meant people stay for a few years, but only enjoy a few months of it. That sounds more accurate.

:yuk:

[millerscourt]

Having had "Captain America" in EK I now see that EK have "Captain Canada" singing the praises of EK judging by the back cover page of Flight International. How soon before "Captain UK" is next? Who will it be? Bymonek or White Knight is my guess. :rolleyes:

[ZQN]

millerscourt

Many pilots are happy in Emirates and why shouldn't they encourage like-minded colleagues to join them. Why can't you comprehend that not everyone is as miserable as you seem to be. Korean has a job for you - Please go.

[White Knight]

Millers my dear chap - haven't heard from you for so long I thought they'd put you in the sanitorium for good........ Besides, for the life of me I can't work out your continued fetish with EK - bit like 411a's fetish with "blooming roses" and the Middle East:yuk:
MC, you really don't know me as well as you think you do - whilst I may be happy living and working in Dubai I'm not a sychophantic brown-noser, so no, "Captain UK" will never be my calling. I suggest you get over your "little man" syndrome:{

[BYMONEK]

Millerscourt.

Please take a little time to read some of my previous posts. You'll then realise that I say it as I see it. I've highlighted many negatives before so hardly qualify to carry the baton of Mr UK EK! I just get pissed off with the same usual suspects bleating on with utter tosh!

Negatives are generally outweighed by the positives, hence i'm still here and will continue to be so for the forseeable future. Unless of course the dollar keeps diving..............:uhoh:

[millerscourt]

Bymonek I was just pulling your leg.

ZQN Calm down. I made no comments for or against Captain Canada's article merely bringing it up as I am curious as to how such articles come about. As Pilots we are not normally allowed to speak to the press and I am wondering who approaches who in order for such an article to be printed.

White Knight As always I can rely on you for a puerile comment:D

[nolimitholdem]

Anyone have a link/reprint of this "Captain Canada" article mentioned?

[cumair]

wanting Walking Johnny on the rocks no ice... :D

[Forknporn]

Madam, Madam, I have been pressing your button perenially, but still you are not coming......:}

[6853]

Have there been any more resignations recently, all seems to have gone quiet for a while?

[lowbypass]

Got ya FOSSIL...

[Manning Road]

Could someone update us on the latest?

[SOPS]

yes anyone got updates on RR?

[kennyngkenrich]

anyone knows who syed razif is? he's being an idiot in air asia

[flaphandlemover]

Ladies and Gentlemen...
Fresh from the press (office)...

143 resignations... and loots are on the jump.. they are just waiting for the OK from Korean...

2000 CC didn"t return from leave and management starts to get a bit worried... Soon they have to start parking AC.

Then HH will find out about his management ahh better miss management.... and i guess he woun't be amused...:=

Let's see whom they will blame then?

The pilots: THEY ARE REFUSING TO DO SERVICE DURING FLIGHT:}

[Schibulsky]

as I am going through my exit procedures I noticed the only really busy counter at the Service Center was the one with the sign "end of service"...and cheerful happy faces you can see in that cue:ok:

[7x7]

A serious question: how many of the resignations are from U.S. pilots?

Korean eh? Frying pans and fires....

[Sonny Hammond]

Me too....

If I didn't know better i'd think some mysterious pressure caused it to disappear....

[EGGW]

Nope.

There was a seperate thread by "Capt Pruner" started on 29/9/09 that he himself deleted. No idea why, but it is his right as the original poster.

No subversive reasons :ok:

EGGW.

[Instant Hooligan]

Back on topic,
As per the latest update, "They still have large numbers of quality applicants" but if you guys want to recommend anybody it'll be more than welcome. Yeah I'm telling all my friends as I type. :oh:

[fatbus]

You do not live in the real world in DXB. Just look at the experence level of most of the new hires. Lots of very experenced pilots still appling and BTW they too are appling to all the other jobs that the EK pilots are appling to and A - think is better than EK and B- think the job is a given when they apply. There has been a few 777 EK Capts apply to KAL get offered a job and later turned in down maybe ask them why they did that. As mentioned fire to fry pan thing.But go for it if you think its the better move. The more that leave will put pressure on EK managment and you might see an improvement .

Good luck to those that leave, Ill be right behind you when a better job show up.

[Chandler Bing]

Good luck to all of us leaving, and we wish also the best to the ones who stay.
Pilots we are, and here we stand. We can be a big family, wherever we are coming from and goint to.
If EK, GF, QR or EY ever learnt a lesson from the resignations, it would be well known..... but anyway, if one day insh allah they are, I wish you sincerely all the best.

[nolimitholdem]

What qualifies as a good job to one person may not to the next, and thus it will ever be. It doesn't answer the question as to why so many are leaving the "best job in the world" (according to those legends-in-their-own-minds, Emirates management).

Maybe they will have trouble replacing the resignations with quality, maybe they won't. I don't care. I just love seeing them actually have to. The training, joining, and repatriation costs alone must be horrendous but the loss of face is the true cost and it looks good on them. I hope it doesn't affect our profit share too much next year! They can lie to themselves as much as they want but it doesn't accomplish much.

I'm sure in an effort to cut costs, they'll continue to cut the T&C's, which will hardly enhance the ability to attract quality, and around and around it will go. I believe that would be analogous to being behind the power curve. Bang up job in management guys, keep up the good work! It was only predicted about forever ago.

:D

[Wiley]

flaphandlemover cites 143 resignations in his post above.

Can someone confirm that number? Since what date? Even if you apply the first rule of rumours, (halve the figure originally given and then divide that answer by two), it's still a very large number. I can remember the days at EK when two in a year were enough to get people talking.

I have no first hand knowledge of KAL. However, have a good friend there on the 777 who wishes he was anywhere else, and another one who's more or less happy - be he did NOT enjoy his initial training.

[flyneo]

Hi Folks,

heard 10 days ago that around 135 resigned....around 3 months notice period so guess this number is how many will leave in the next 3 months.....

Going home soon and looking forward to it !!!


Greetings from the sandpit ,

flyneo

[break dancer]

Hi all, Maybe this can be settled once and for all by all those leaving attending the SIDS and STARS evening on the 26th Oct.

Before all the negative posts come flying regarding the event being taken over by the EPI group, I believe they do have to right to advertise as they see fit, and we, the individual have the right that whilst we drink their booze to at least listen to what they have to say.

It would be great to see a huge turn out and wish all those alleged people leaving, a wonderful life....

[Rotaiva]

I hope it doesn't affect our profit share too much next year!

Have they even 'announced' the target as yet???
I reckon there are two chances of us getting profit share this year! - and we all know what they are...

[Kamelchaser]

Much as I'd love that figure of 143 to be true, I'm afraid it's not. According to a source who has no political reason to tell me porkies...it's closer to 40 this calendar year. Shoot me if I'm wrong, but I get a little bit tired of numbers being inflated by every iteration of the rumour mill.

Don't shoot the messenger..just don't get your hopes up of a payrise based on these sort of numbers.

[allaru]

Your probably correct Camel Kisser, 40 so far, but 137 plus or minus a few have resignations which become effective over the next 3 months or so, but who's counting. Ouch thats gonna hurt at least until the next suckers arrive.

[Ahad Adump]

Official fig from DCFI-B @ TC workshop is 2%

[CAVnotOK]

Doesn't matter too much really what the exact numbers are. Guys are leaving EK, and the company are going to find it extremely hard to recruit enough pilots just to cover the rate of attrition. Let alone any requirement for expansion of the fleet.

EK have shown their true colours, and now they will have to lie in the bed they have made for themselves. They might not feel the full effects for another 6 months or so, but when they do it will be too late.

Oh well.....

[fourgolds]

Perhaps what EK fail to realise is that the current 1 to 2% attrition is during one of the worst periods in the history of the Aviation Industry. Ie Very few jobs out there etc. So if times are bad and guys are leaving they better hold on tight because when the market swings they will truly understand the meaning of " Atonement"

[nakbin330]

Alitalia have got rid of 840 pilots .... where's the shortage?

[pool]

Why are people leaving in the first place?

Listen to Pink (incompl.):

This used to be a fun house
But now it's full of evil clowns
It's time to start the countdown
......................

[CanadaKid]

Words & music by paul simon

Manys the time Ive been mistaken
And many times confused
Yes, and often felt forsaken
And certainly misused
Oh, but Im alright, Im alright
Im just weary to my bones
Still, you dont expect to be
Bright and bon vivant
So far a-way from home, so far away from home

I dont know a soul whos not been battered
I dont have a friend who feels at ease
I dont know a dream thats not been shattered
Or driven to its knees
Oh, but its alright, its alright
For we lived so well so long
Still, when I think of the
Road were traveling on
I wonder whats gone wrong
I cant help it, I wonder whats gone wrong

[halas]

Living easy, living free
Season ticket on a one-way ride
Asking nothing, leave me be
Taking everything in my stride
Dont need reason, dont need rhyme
Aint nothing I would rather do
Going down, party time
My friends are gonna be there too

Im on the highway to hell

No stop signs, speed limit
Nobodys gonna slow me down
Like a wheel, gonna spin it
Nobodys gonna mess me round
Hey satan, payed my dues
Playing in a rocking band
Hey momma, look at me
Im on my way to the promised land

Im on the highway to hell
(dont stop me)

And Im going down, all the way down
Im on the highway to hell

halas

ps:good Oz rock!
And what is it with N/A lyrical bullsh!t anyway?

[drop kick]

oh pleeease!!

Can we dispense with the sing a long and get back to the subject. Before someone gets up and starts singing "Danny boy" :D

[ratpoison]

Ohhhh Danny boy, the pipes, the pipes are calling
From glen to glen, and down the mountain side
The summer's gone, and all the flowers are dying
'tis you, 'tis you must go and I must bide.

But come you back when summer's in the meadow
Or when the valley's hushed and white with snow
'tis I'll be there in sunshine or in shadow
Oh Danny boy, oh Danny boy, I love you so. :p

[beechkid]

well not sure if this means anything about the coming shortage of pilots at EK, but my future RSV month has been canceled until further notice due to operational reasons. Flew with a captain who also received the same email.:hmm:

[Fart Master]

Theories as to why a RSV month would be cancelled?

[Fart Master]

Fair enough, but doesn't having a lot of people on RSV give them greater flexability?

[what_goes_up]

Fair enough, but doesn't having a lot of people on RSV give them greater flexability?
Only if, in the planning stage, they can put a bum on any seat required.

[jinglied]

..reserve month cancelled??

Don't know if there is actually anyone planning anything. I, and many others (Capt's and F/O's) were on the receiving end of an email in August that had our reserve month pulled FORWARD from early 2010 to October/November.....for OPERATIONAL reasons. :rolleyes:

Jinglied

[H1N1]

Same for me: rsv in Jan 10, pulled forward to Nov 09 ...

From a good source, however, the "departed" this year are in the low forties.

[donpizmeov]

From Long range Ted's mouth...highest number of resignations in one month for EK happened in Sep 09 when 14 put their notice in.

Don

[MTOW]

... well, if LR says that's the true figure, it must be right then.


... right?

[white rat]

Must be one of the lucky 40.

No job to go to but just had enough of the rubbish. Next months roster is absolute garbage.

Good luck boys, not much left here.

[LHR Rain]

My friend left August 12th of this year and at his exit interview Helena White told him at that time that 85 pilots have left EK so far. That includes the sackings but going foward 3 months the number has to be over 100 by now.
When the German frieght B-777 airline starts taking our pilots it will get close to 125 for the year in the worst economic downturn in generations.
On a side note any word on the Stasi masquarding as asst chief pilot Boeing is going back to East Germany to fly for Aero-Logic? Good ridance

[allaru]

Sorry Heathrow but I think SGT Shultz is here to stay, appears he, and one of his former peers in management at Aerologic don't get on. EGT wanted a management slot which wasn't to be so as far as I know his here to stay. Give the old SGT a break at least he replies to your emails, and is probably the only person who does anything useful in there.

Regarding numbers I confirm the 130plus guys, see my post on another thread.

And theres more, 2 out of the 3 FOs I flew with last have either resigned, or are waiting on course dates to resign, and the other one that isn't leaving has several job offers so is not about to take anymore s#@t.

And lastly rumour has it that Korean are offering 20kUSD a month for direct entry A380 Captains....if thats true it could be a problem for the three ring circus (AAR, TCAS, and the horse)

[fatbus]

KAL A380 rumours are just that, dont get too excited.

[McGreaser]

...........allaru.........come on buddy ! That post doesn't count......you down to 57 posts mate ! How can you even post that "rumour", 20kUSD for A380 skippers :}......gees mate you might as well have included the one on Cinderella, Bambi...blah blah.

Let's disseminate usefull info wenever we can ........otherwise let's not put a "journos kiss" on resignations at Ek. True people are leaving EK ........but too much sensationalization makes it tabloid trash......and deprives readers of useful info.:ok:

[Instant Hooligan]

Judging by the numbers of EK guys interviewing at KAL over the coming weeks it may well be a realistic resignation figure. Good luck to the 5 interviewing this week and the 15 so far with interviews booked for next month. From a reliable source at KAL.

[dadster]

Check this out

Korean Air expands A380 aircraft order
19 February 2008


Korean Air is expanding its A380 fleet with the purchase of three more A380 aircraft. This firm order is in addition to the five A380 aircraft ordered by Korean Air in 2003.

Starting in 2010, Korean Air will introduce the A380 on high density traffic routes from Seoul to the US west coast, with subsequent destinations likely to include cities on the US east coast and Europe. Deliveries to Korean Air for the three additional aircraft are scheduled to take place in 2012 and 2013.

With Korean Air's additional order, Airbus has 192 firm orders, from 16 customers for the A380 programme.

"Our decision to purchase the A380 aircraft is in line with our vision to become a global leading carrier providing the best quality of service to our passengers," said Yang Ho Cho, Chairman and CEO of Korean Air. "The A380 is a comfortable, environment-friendly aircraft for the 21st century and it will enable Korean Air to provide Excellence in Flight to our customers."

John Leahy, Airbus Chief Operating Officer Customers, added: "We greatly value our partnership with Korean Air, and it is particularly satisfying to see our first and oldest customer outside Europe confirming his confidence in the A380 for its fleet renewal and growth strategy. The advanced technology and eco-efficient A380 will provide Korean Air with lower operating costs, greater range and outstanding new standards of comfort for its passengers".

Airbus' relationship with Korean Air dates back to 1974, when the airline became Airbus' first customer outside Europe. Today, the carrier remains one of Airbus' largest customers in the region, having previously placed orders for 51 widebody types comprising 32 A300s and 19 A330s.

Being greener, cleaner, quieter and smarter, the A380 is already setting new standards for air transport and the environment. The A380 has unmatched fuel efficiency, consuming less than three litres per passenger per 100 kilometres. Its new-generation engines and superb aerodynamic performance mean that the A380 not only complies with today's noise limits, it is also significantly quieter than any other large aircraft flying today and produces only half as much noise on take-off and landing than the former largest commercial aircraft.

The A380 has the quietest cabin in the sky, offers more comfort in every class and more space for all. The aircraft's efficiency and advanced technologies result in outstanding economics, superior performance and high operational flexibility. The A380 also provides vital extra passenger capacity without increasing the number of flights. Compared to the former largest commercial aircraft, the A380 seats over 40 percent more passengers in a typical three-class, 525-seat configuration - with seat-mile costs 20 percent lower and range capability over 1,000 nautical miles longer.

Airbus is an EADS Company.

[Payscale]

so what...EK captains make around 20K US..:)

[Watchdog]

Payscale, dream on buddy!

[fatbus]

( EK ) Try @ 12-14 k US and dont get into this including housing amd education thing again

[thatwasclose]

Spoke to some people at KAL. They said there is no way expats will be on the first few 380s. For what its worth.

[etops777]

Knowing Asian culture I am very sure that expats will not be on the first few A380, if not at all!

[kiwi]

I think it will depend on what their insurers require. I understand that is the major reason the Korean hires expats in the first place.
It's not because they want to hire them but because they have been compelled to by their insurers because of the number of aircraft losses etc.

[thegypsy]

I can just imagine how some of the " local oldies" who have been on the 744 for years and years will cope with their first Airbus being an A380.

Ecam Action Stations

[Payscale]

I dont know what window you look out off, but just under 20K USD is not far off in my case..sorry to wee on your parade. Yes its including housing and education. Since KAL doesnt pay for this you have to compare apples to apples....

[Fred Garvin M.P.]

Payscale, there you go being rational and looking at the overall big picture. What are you doing? You can't do that!

[etops777]

I agreed with Payscale, he is making a fair comparison.

[Watchdog]

KAL provide accom in Seol actually.

$20,000 = 73,500 dhs ( still dreaming especially with prod pay virtually gone here at EK)

[jinglied]

..Fair comparison?

How about adding in the fact that you would not be living in the middle east and you live in your own country? How much is that worth?

Jinglie'd

[jumbo1]

interestingly and for what it's worth I have just moved 9 places up the seniority list(from a month ago), and I'm in the top 20% to start with.
No-one leaving?.........

[Payscale]

Living in the middle east was a choise you and I made at some point. I dont love it. But I dont hate it either. That the expat life style. We are well paid guest workers. We will all leave at some point again. KAL pays your HOTAC in korea. EK pays you villa....

[jinglied]

Payscale..

"Living in the middle east was a choise you and I made at some point."

Your stating the obvious. How does that, or your previous posts, support an "apples to apples" comparison. I say you cannot do it.

Jinglie'd

[Jet II]

How about adding in the fact that you would not be living in the middle east and you live in your own country? How much is that worth?


Not a lot - my home country is going down the pan and we couldn't wait to get out. :ouch:

[Payscale]

Jingled

Its doesnt really matter what you think.. or what I think. Its the guys planning to make the switch from EK to KAL that has to sum things up in a way that seems logic to him. I offered my opinion on how I would compare it. Fact is after 10 years here, living out of accommodations and being a trainer I make a decent salary. The job that I eventually would trade it in for would be compared as a full package.
I fear for the future of this country, but we know so little of what goes on in the government that any conclusion we draw is a shot in the dark..
Lets see if Nalheel can pay their 3,5 bill sukuk in december....:uhoh:

[Wizofoz]

Jingled,

That's IF you consider spending 11-12 days in your home country every month "Living" there, whilst spend ing 2/3rds of your life away from your family.

Don,t get me wrong, if there was a pressing reason for my family to be at home, this might be a reasonable option.

But DON'T labour under the mis-apprehention that spending most of your life as an un-welcome foreigner away from your family is any picnic!!

[nakbin330]

One of the questions I asked whilst attending the KAL interview (330 DEC) was whether or not I would have the chance to fly the 380.

The three interviewers, one expat and two locals, actually laughed .....

Never say never though.

[kia1]

Question, have you recently checked the seniority list numbers? Because everyone arriving at same time as I did lost about 100 places ie we are more at the bottom of list than when we first arrived in the cie.

[Volverine]

Good point man ! No more seniority in EK guys, everybody should know that NOW. I personally lost arround 80 position on the list after 4 years in the company. Who said the new "upgrade policy" will not affect seniority ? LOL

[Kamelchaser]

Don't think there is any great conspiracy there guys..prob just cadets joining flight ops after after their ab-initio training. Everybody joins EK with a certain staff number. Nothing to do with seniority for command of course. That seems to have gone out the window a while ago.

[kiwi]

As I understand it, senority for cadets starts when they start their type transition on the type they are allocated to, not when they start their training in Australia. Might pay to ask someone for answers as to why you appear to be going backwards on the list.

[Hook]

Actually Cadets get their seniority number much earlier than that. Before they start their CPL in Australia, they have to do a basic aviation and spoken English course, which takes a few months. They get their seniority number as soon as this course starts, since they are then effectively employed by EK.

[sanddude]

Not correct Hook. The cadets get there stafnumber when they join. They get there seniority number when they start flying the line under training. Thats why you see some 376 staff numbers on the bodem of the list. These cadets started there linetraining couple of months ago.

Because of this, you can not get a big picture from the seniority list about how many people left the company, there is always a influx of cadets on the list.

I moved up 8 places this month, so some more senior guys must have left.

Off topic, do we already have a new flight safety manager?

[kennedy]

But the thing is, do we need a new Flight Safety Manager?

According to the company, we're very safe with our wonderful SOPs, and we don't have a fatigue problem, so let's cut some more costs!

[Hook]

You're right Sanddude. I confused Staff Numbers with seniority numbers.

[kiwi]

Gromet failed to be shortlisted as he was found to be too intelligent for the job.

[Trader]

Any truth to the story of the 2 pilots suspended after showing up for a rostered flight, being stopped by the FDM at the last minute and told they were actually not legal?????

[Wizofoz]

Trader,

Yes, though both now back online. Had to do with not being acclimatised.

Best part was, replacement F/O got to MEL and was then told- "You can't operate back- you were illegal for the trip as you were not acclimatised."!!

[fatbus]

Why would they be suspended, what did they do wrong besides show up?

[Orangewing]

You don't have to have done anything wrong to have been suspended, merely pointing out that ek have cocked something up or a flaw in procedures is enough. Safety culture? What safety culture??? :{:{

[Mysalami]

4 flight deck have been removed from roster for having the gall to be resting in the SFO hotel. Seems Air Nav Canada put in a gross nav error report on an EK Flight operating SFO to DXB. Short haul Ed Jr (EGT's FO side kick from the land of the free) fingered the crew of the flight that departed on the date of the report, but some 19hrs after the report time!!!!!! This fact has been bought to ED jrs attention but still these 4 guys are booked for tea and stickies on the 5th with the chief pilot. That will teach them. Also of interest is that the Captain of the reported aircraft has come forward to say "fare cop it was me Gov!!", but this is not enough to put ED jr off the case.

So 4 guys missing out on flight pay, having their names trashed in the widely spread emails about the case, all because this EK management hopeful is too lazy to investigate fully.:yuk:

I am sure a company wide apology will be forthcoming on the 6th!

[5star]

Well I heard that EGT's sidekick is heading home again :ok::ok::ok:...Another big w*nker less if you ask me. ED and AB heading west. A few more to go and things might clear up...

[IXNAT]

The good news is that with the new rostering rules of only two regions a month, EK will have the opportunity to sack a number of pilots who have been avoiding the North Atlantic, especially when said pilots look for concise documentation of procedures and expectations for the region.

[donpizmeov]

Well I don't actually think this reported aircraft ever deviated from its flight planned track. I think its more a case of one FIR not sharing the flight plan with other, and when asked where the next point would be the pilot read the legs page lat long that did not show the 30" (wont happen on a bus!!), when the controller noticed the difference in tracking he filed a report (perhaps he was australian ATC trained?).

But good on you for jumping to conclusions there Thazright. I am pretty sure there is a management job waiting for you ya muppet!!!

Don

[Time2go]

" Ya Muppet" That's funny :)

[harry the cod]

IXNAT

Think you'll find it's no more than 2 of the same destination each month, not region. Big difference! But hey, as with much on this forum, why let facts get in the way of a good bitch and moan.

Harry

[theidler]

Think you'll find it's no more than 2 of the same destination each month, not region.

You won't find this if you read Flight Ops Weekly Update #68 of 15th October.

[Trader]

Or maybe....possibly......kind of.......you never know...........they are running interference against AAR! Issue the FCI to keep him happy but don't really implement it.

[Femme Fatale]

On the EK staff website today. Bigger profit than last year this time..... So I guess management will have a big bigger bonus than last year!:{

[CRS]

Well the increase in half year profits just goes to show each of those weekly updates was a lie. The management meeting was a lie. I should have been here long enough to realise that before now.

Never again will I believe a word from their mouths. Single engine taxi, reverse idle, min fuel F**k YOU TCAS & co.

[BYMONEK]

And I quote:

''There is more to life than work''

I agree, but you can't live in a shack feeding you family on bread and jam for the rest of your life, so the option of just walking off without a job lined up is not an option for most. Unless of course you have a large sum of money in the bank.

Still, even that doesn't guarantee happiness. I've got over 5 million dollars in the bank, but I was just as happy when I had 3 million. ;)

[CAVnotOK]

Some good points, but unfortunately with the last comment you have just come across as a tosser.

[Lamyna Flo]

I've got over 5 million dollars in the bank

How sad that you feel the need to brag about it. Do you have the obligatory "penis extension" vehicle to go with that sad little ego too?

[BYMONEK]

Before this degenerates, ask yourself this one question. If I did have 5 million dollars in the bank, do you really think i'd still be going to work at 3am numerous times a month. It was a joke!. :ugh:

This is Emirates we're talking about here, not some friggin investment bank.

[harry the cod]

Well, i've got over 20 million dollars in the bank and I still go to work at 3am. I have to.................they're 'Zim dollars'! :uhoh:

Harry

[puff m'call]

I heard a good one this morning at work :)

Watch this space in the coming couple of months, Emirates are in for a bit of a shock.

A large number of resignations are going to hit the fleet managers deck all at once!!!:ok:

If true, and I have no reason to believe other wise this will screw Emirates right up for a short time, they've had this one coming, hope it's true.

No more info, we'll just have to wait and see.

[PorkKnuckle]

Maybe, Bin, because pprune ME is is a good place for people to unload their angst so they can then continue soldiering on more readily after "discovering" the latest good news from management? It's either that or complain to the union...

You come here knowing you'll find a rant or two, then go off at the writer when you do. What's with that???

[Mr.Haole]

A tosser? I love it!

I would fly at EK just to acquire a new inventory of derogatory insults. Mine are somewhat stale after years of use. "Knob" was another I picked up recently. It's been a good week.

So, about the interviews. Have they begun?

[PorkKnuckle]

Mr. Ahole, most of the insults we experience are by way of "adjustments" to our Ts and Cs. That and the EK crew rest facilities.

[Mr.Haole]

Ahem. Pork?

I was genuine in my admiration of the OTHER posts and their creativity. I feel for the pilots at EK and hope conditions improve for them.

What are you doing to improve your lot? Whining on pprune?

And "Ahole"? You must have better than that.

[Bus429]

Gents and ladies,
A question for you: do you think mass resignations or dissent will have any impact on organisations such as EK, EY, ETC?
No, there will always be someone to fill the space you leave. None of these organisations will fail...your departure(s) will mean nothing.

[nakbin330]

"Men do not fear justice, but they hate the lack of it", a quote by Aristotle, some years ago.

Rings true of the recent EK management style and the main reason, I suspect, of the supposed exodus to greener pastures.

[Flightrider]

This may be a naive question, but surely EK will eventually reach the point where it is more cost-effective to allow crews to be based in their home countries? With multiple daily flights to/from London, US points, Australia, etc from where many Emirates crews are expatriate Dubai residents, it surely would be efficient to operate those services using crews based at the other end of the route. The saving from not having to fund residential, education and transport costs would surely outweigh any inefficiency arising from having a number of smaller bases worldwide than one central base?

You could also build a marathon crew hotel at DXB to host crews whilst down-route there instead of paying a small fortune for overseas crew hotac.

[Wiley]

...surely EK will eventually reach the point where it is more cost-effective to allow crews to be based in their home countries?I know of at least two pilots who have left EK in the last 12 months who told HR that they would be happy to stay if they could be given a roster that would allow them to get home for a week every month - something far short of basing. (I was one of them.:):):):):))

Answer? "We'll pass it on." Translation: Too hard-la.

Just as they did with the decision to accept female expat pilots, they'll do it eventually, but (as with the female pilots), only when they're dragged screaming into accepting it because they simply have to. But when it comes, it won't be to save money, for the cost savings argument doesn't hold water, as the vast majority of the costs of having crews based in DXB aren't really costs at all - they're really just money being passed from one pocket of someone's dish dash to another.

[411A]

...do you think mass resignations or dissent will have any impact on organisations such as EK, EY, ETC?
No, there will always be someone to fill the space you leave. None of these organisations will fail...your departure(s) will mean nothing.

Well said...
One of the oldest airlines in the middle east (SaudiArabian) has had resignations enmass before, and it made...no difference, whatsoever.

Except...more overtime for those that remained.:}

[a345xxx]

Well said. Its a sad reality but true, mass resignations never hurt the employer only a blip on the radar especially with so many lining up to join.

[sexdriven]

Guys, wake up and smell the roses. No one is leaving in the numbers that have been claimed on this forum. I have seen numbers as high as 120 thrown around and all this was to take effect in December. There are only 5 resignation in December.

A lot of B S on this forum. That is fine as long as the moaners keep the bitching confined to this forum and not onto the flight deck.

[Marooned]

Crewing: 60 pilots short December, no flex left.

1000 hrs rejected by GCAA, more pilots needed.

More aircraft coming, more pilots leaving... no BS, ask Korean.

SD: The proof will be parked around the airport very soon and they won't be statics for the air-show.

[mensaboy]

Likely about 60 pilots have departed this year, which is quite high considering the present climate of job availability. Regardless of the reasons why people are leaving, it would be foolish for EK not to address the issue, especially considering they budgeted for 20 pilot resignations this year.

I personally know a few more who are going to leave in the coming months and that trend will continue. If jobs open up around the world, then it is predictable that resignations will dramatically increase.

This is not good news for EK and it is not good for the remaining pilots at EK. Recruitment will be slow to react, we will be required to work even more (if that is possible) and thanks to the foolish management style of Emirates Airline, the remaining pilots will suffer the consequences.

Predictions for 2010?
-further alterations to the ever changing upgrade policy (negative for the vast majority of F/O's)
-more pleas from management to 'recommend' pilots for recruitment
-a change to 'hiring' requirements, such as total hours, type etc
-further rostering manipulations (this is a BIG ONE)
-a rapid increase in valid sickness rates and fatigue issues
-scraping the bottom of the barrel in an attempt to satisfy recruitment needs
-management pilots being required to actually fly pairings (bad news for those who have to sit next to them in the cockpit)
-more pathetic attempts from management to appear like they are concerned for our well-being (TCAS is already doing this occasionally during grd school sessions)
-less availability of contractual Leave allotment... already happening
-upgrades occuring 'out of seniority'... already happening
-the dreaded DEC policy put back into full force

I have a suspicion next year is going to get ugly at EK. Hope i'm wrong.

[fourgolds]

Enough guys are leaving during " the downturn" where there are relatively few jobs out there. Just wait for the market to swing. EK will learn the very definition of the word "atonement".

[Chandler Bing]

Won't chnange a thing, look at QR, it was struggling for pilots, but didn't change a thing in their way of treating its workforce... Why would EK do so ?

[AVIATOR757]

QR pays better than EK.

Etihad pays better than EK and now Air Arabia pays better than EK.

92 hour cap makes a huge difference.:*

[mensaboy]

Is it true, as I have been told, that Air Arabia Captains earn about 60K dhs a month? (whereas an EK Captain earns about 40K dhs a month)
Just curious if that is true.

Granted, they don't have company accomodation like EK, although we all know what that means nowadays with the criminal increase in DEWA charges and Emirates complete disregard for our contract regarding those charges.

[Payscale]

add the 14000 a month for accommodation on top of the 40K and voila. Same same and no risk of rent fluctuations for the AA captain

[fatbus]

When you compare apples to apples you will find that some AA guys get paid more IE the guys that fly more at night 150% the hourly rate. but that means nighttime turns whick seems to be a big spot of bother with the EK guys claiming fatigue while you dont seem to hear that from AA , they choose to do them because they sre worth more. EK guys cant go back now and say"well if they paid me for the nighttime turns that would be different" they have made their own bed on that one

[alwayzinit]

Trying to compare the short haul only roster of AA with the EK roster is just silly.

Having flown 100+hr months doing IT short haul you simply cannot compare the EK ULR/Long/turnaround combination for accumulative fatigue and general total knackeredessness.

AA do not have to cope with 12hr time zone changes have 2 days off then go the other way.

On a personal plus side at least the rosters are coming out earlier, a bit.

I do know that there are at present 200+ applications from EK pilots in at Korean, however the attrition rate at the sim is not good ......possibly thanks to our "don't hand fly culture".

I would like to believe that the lost T+Cs will be returned but I am too old and don't believe in Santa anymore:cool:.

Happy dayz

[flareflyer]

Honestly at the moment what I look at is not getting back the old contract but getting more attention to safety.
Our rosters in EK, at list for the Bus Guys, are out of any safety logic.
Having 11 hours duty during the middle of the night for a 2 pilot turnaround to india and back is absolutely UNSAFE!!!!!!
Specially if that happens quite often during the month. We got a very interesting article about sleep deprivation from one of our flight ops manager but I think we were the only one that did read it!!!!!
The check in for duty is just 1 hour before departure instead of at least 1 hour and 30 mins, plus we also have extensions like the annex 1 to fit with even longer duty periods!!!!!!
I honestly star being quite worried about........
Flare

[mensaboy]

I agree with you Flare, our rostering is atrocious. Last month I did the maximum night duties in a given week, plus I did 2 variations (max 4 are allowed, which is insane) and then they inserted a DOH midnight turn in the middle of my days off. To top it all off, I only got ONE layover and that was a ULR. Magically I did 80 hours flying plus 2 Reserve Days. FOOK THAT ****E! (7 days off in total too)

By the end of the month, I didn't know what was up and what was down, let alone what day of the week it was.

On one return sector at 11am after a delayed departure (yet apparently within limits before discretion.... India turn) neither the F/O or me was talking sense during the descent. Sadly, I missed altitude calls as PF and he missed repeated R/T calls and then barely answered with a semblance of SOP's. It was a disaster waiting to happen, but fortunately another good weather day in DXB and not too much traffic.

I can understand the Triple7 dudes not understanding how things could be so bad on the BUS, but it is true.

Finally decided to fire off the CV. Happy with my lot in life, but oh so sad to finally realize something bad is going to happen soon at EK...... and it might involve ME !!! You just don't know anymore!

I feel so fortunate working for Emirates Airline! Just wish my life expectancy was not reducing so fast.

[kay7475]

dude i hear you man, on duty from 1st -7th dec. 1european layover followed by 3turnarounds(2 of them to india).best of all ,1of those days i've got a mct turn at 2am followed by india turnaround on the same day at 2300..and this is the 6th consecutive day on duty already....but ...i only here to work:ugh:cheers

[Oblaaspop]

"1 European layover"..................... Bloody luxury mate, I haven't seen Europe for 5 months!!!

Unless of course you count the IST or ATH turnrounds!!:yuk:

[GoreTex]

europe? where is europe, 2 flights there this year, 10 month ago

[sheikmyarse]

I wanted to live a long happy life> that is incompatible with Emirates and I left.
No more Dubai ****e, no more wake up at 1 am no more India no more idiots, no more !
****uk Emirates!! Nevere felt better in my life!!!

[Schibulsky]

...welcome to the club :ok:
and now off to the beach...:cool:

[Von Richtofen]

Emirates best job ever....

[Von Richtofen]

what a joke!!

[helen-damnation]

3X7 isn't always the nirvana you might think. I've got 3 night turns in 5 days, neatly separated by rest days to really screw my sleep pattern :{

However, I'm aware the 'Bus isn't brilliant, which all comes down to belt tightening and not enough people. Rostered into overtime, which won't happen 'cos it'll cost, so I'm interested to see what will happen :rolleyes:

[BigGeordie]

They will take flights off you, give you available days (never days off) which they will turn into standbys. You will then get called out for short flights which take you right up to, but never beyond, the overtime threshold. :ugh:

[ShockWave]

Hey guys,
I have to say that after 18 months of not working for EK I have a much better understanding of how close to the dangerous level I was with EK.
I now fly my 900 hours a year plus another 250 dead head hours. Hard work, yes! But at Kal we do get adequate rest, even with a compressed schedule. The Captain always has a first class seat reserved on long sectors, even if there is a cockpit crew rest facility. ULH flights get min 48 hour lay over. Plus your 11 blocked days off in a row each month helps get over it.
I have not had any micro sleep episodes since I have been here, in EK it was often a daily occurrence.
I am not saying that Korean is a better airline as a career option, just emphasizing and agreeing that EK has a huge problem with fatigue.
The really scary thing is that until you hit the fatigue wall and f_ck something up you may just think that micro sleeps and feeling like a bag of **** continually is normal. It is not! and it does not have to be that way.
Good luck and be careful guys.

[Cityliner]

"The Captain always has a first class seat reserved on long sectors, even if there is a cockpit crew rest facility."

So the captain gets a good sleep while his two tired F/Os are struggleing to stay awake because of their bad crew bunk.
Sounds much safer to me.

Safe flying everyone

[Watchdog]

Who said the crew bunk was "bad"? :rolleyes:

[ShockWave]

Gee would that be a bit of a chip on the shoulder mate. Chill......and try to get some more sleep!
3 man crew, all can use the first class seat.
4 man crew, Captain first class, and F/Os have a reserved business class seat as well as a bunk. Extra crew do not have to be on the flight deck for all take offs and landings.
I am not saying that KAL is safer than EK, only that I am no where near as fatigued with KAL as I was with EK. Despite flying the same or more hours and more ULH sectors.

[Khaosai]

Hi Shockwave,

thanks for that info regarding the tiredness issue comparison.

Would you be willing to give a further account of your experiences on here, or via private message regarding the KAL experience.

Everything from the selection procedure, agency, training etc. I am sure lots on here would appreciate an honest account of the job so far.

Rgds.

[Chandler Bing]

Yes, I'm in !!
PM if you have some time, thanks for your help

[donpizmeov]

For those that think things have gotten worse, or are waiting for things to improve, have a look at this thread from 2005.

[BigGeordie]

I think things have become slowly and steadily worse and now more people are affected as we have more crew. Hence more complaining.

What is significant now is what is happening elsewhere in the world. Other airlines are holding recruitment open days in Dubai and the minimum requirements for Emirates have fallen. This suggests some airlines, including EK, are having difficulty getting hold of enough pilots- something which wasn't the case 5 or 6 years ago. The word is well and truly out there that Emirates isn't the dream job it once was. That is the only thing that gives me any hope conditions might improve. Things certainly won't get better just because they are falling in love with the crew.