Type rating costs

[adam210]

Gday

Just wondering if anyone would be game enough to throw a timeline as to when , if at all, endorsement costs would be borne by the employer in the aussie airline industry (we constantly hear of the shortage of pilots)

Interested in the following airlines: Jetstar, Virgin Blue, QantasLink

would the new VB EBA deal with this issue?

Cheers

A210

[ACMS]

And while your at it could you let me know next weeks Tattslotto numbers as well:ok:

[Condition lever]

Recommend you go into said interview and let them know that you are prepaired to wait until there is no cost for an endorsement.

[TwoHundred]

When?

When pilots start refusing to pay.


200

[OhForSure]

As you can see from the aforementioned posts, an accurate and reliable answer to your question requires a crystal ball or some tarot cards (anyone?)!

However there is talk of Virgin dropping the BYO endorsement and QLink have dramatically lowered the price of theirs, so there IS some obvious pressure on the big players.

If your lucky.... maybe another year or so.

Not so lucky.... maybe another 5 years or more.

[slice]

What do Qlink charge now ?

[jack red]

Give it 6 months and it will be 5 year bonds and no rating costs!:ok:

[hot tuna]

They'll give foreign nationals work permits first, as Pilots are on the skills shortage list. Then they'll pay for the type rating as a last resort... it's just how the mongrel beancounters who run airlines think. However,it can't be too far away.....;)

[Aussie]

QantasLink Dash 8 Endo is on special at only 10K!

Aussie

[morning mungrel]

And if they get rid of the year 12 bit they "might" get some more takers.

[excellr8]

If someone could answer a question. Is it true that even after you pay for your own D8 endorsement it's not even signed off as a command rating. Is this new? or when they did pay for it (the company) was it only a co-pilot rating anyway?

[adam210]

there are strong rumours that VB/JQ are dropping endorsement costs soon, does anyone have any info on this at all, perhaps someone who just got a start date would care to comment?

[Aussie]

Word on the street is 1st of July for Virgin...

[DutyofCare]

I can confirm with Aussie, looks like VB have jumped the gun and it's the start of changing attitudes from within management. I've heard of 2 crews paying, :eek: :eek: :eek: $16500 for the Dash8 with Qlink and :eek: :eek: :eek: $43200 for the A320 with J* for there total endoresment expenditure. Now that's a lot of BEER in anyones business...

[Track Direct]

It now appears Jet* will follow suit very shortly, offered AWA's and bonded:E

[muttly's pigeon]

So whats COST price on these ratings? Surely if YOUR paying an employer for time in THIER sim it should atleast be at a discount to the 'rack rate'. I have no doubt this is not the case but anyone care to speculate on what sort of mark up there is on a $30/40000 A320 rating.

[bizzybody]

"When?

When pilots start refusing to pay."

they just get piltos from else where then either overseas or lets face it, there are always going to be pilots out there with the endorsements or will to pay for it.

Just a question. Do charter companies charge their employee's for endorsements or is it just the airlines? We dont charge if we get a new plane and if a new pilots comes on board we only employ people with the endorsements. Having said that we are not a big charter group though

[Track Direct]

Do charter companies charge their employee's for endorsementsOnly if the employee is naive enough to allow it to happen:rolleyes:

[cunninglinguist]

I can tell you with JQ introducing more fees to join, not less, bonds are a fair way off.
There is murmurings of re-introducing salary sacrafice for the endo however.
I'll go on record and say it won't happen this year ( not paying for endo ) and anyone that waits could miss the seniority boat.

[anonythemouse]

Hot Tuna, you just got me all excited and jumping onto the DIAC website. Alas it would appear that the SOL only has room for Pilot - Aircraft and not Pilot - Rotary! Unless there is no distinction made between the two in CASA wordspeak?

[aussie027]

In regards to paying or not paying for an endorsement, here is one other point that people always seem to overlook or turn a blind eye to, managements especially.
Regardless of whether you pay for the endorsement with a personal loan, upfront, or the" company pays for it" upfront, the simple fact is that if you are not receiving a good salary when you join the company either as an F. O. or a Captain, THEN YOU ARE STILL PAYING FOR THE ENDORSEMENT!!

For example, if the starting salary is $80,000 per year, and you pay 30,000 for the endorsement upfront, you are effectively only earning $50,000 in the first year. If the company is only paying $50,000 as a salary in the first year, but say that they are paying for the endorsement as you are not getting a personal loan to do so, you are of course, STILL PAYING FOR IT!

If this is what Virgin Blue and Jet Star are thinking of doing when they stop charging upfront for an endorsement, that is pay a lower " training wage" , then since the pilots are still paying for their endorsement, they have no right to ask for any kind of a bond period as the money is still COMING OUT OF THE PILOT'S POCKET NOT THEIRS!!!!!

Back to the example I used above, that means the first year wage stays at 80,000 per year,AND the company pays for the endorsement cost, then a one to three year bonding period is fair enough, 5 years as some have suggested IS NOT.

It will be interesting to see what the EBA or AWA 's at these companies state as far as starting salaries go once they "drop endorsement costs".

[Track Direct]

Aus 027

Agreed they still get the cash out of you, just a different way of skinning the cat !:E
The only pro I can see associated with the "training wage" would be a lower tax rate;)

[muttly's pigeon]

And you dont have to front up with the cash carrying the risk the operator will fold in 6 months or you dont cut it and loose your own money. I would vote for a training salary over a 30/40k bank loan.

[MACH082]

can i ask how many guys "dont cut it"

[neville_nobody]

Training salaries have been the norm in the USA for years. Mainly major airlines with large in house training organisations. First year on type you get paid peanuts then you're on a slowly increasing upwards scale.

[Eight Ball]

Yep, low salary on the first year (to recoup the endo) then if you leave before your 5 year bond is up ( due to a more attractive T & Cs and $), you pay for the training cost pro-rata ( plus interest).

Conclusion - you still pay however you look at it, although the company paid for your training up front, you just had a loan with your airline.

Sneakkyyyyy .......

[2p!ssed2drive]

Valid points posted in the Fragrant Forums, which I'll repost here.

Bonding or Training Contracts do one thing and one thing only.....Proclaim to the world that the airline hiring you knowingly does not provide adequate pay and lifestyle requirements and is a stepping stone. A company that adequately provides for a pilot does NOT need a bond.

Everyone should just sit on their hands and do nothing for a while. The pendulum is picking up pace.
They will have to do something soon, the turn up rate at interviews is now around only XX%, cant imagine how bonding will help them??

[Yusef Danet]

Mach 082...

a small yet increasing number of candidates are not getting through the training providers' checks or the airlines' induction checks. If that happens to you it can be devastating. Resigned from previous job, time off without pay to train, no new job to go to and potentially a $30k bill, sometimes without the crucial entry on the licence.

It still wouldn't be fun if it happens in a bond situation but at least the bill is not your problem.

[ITCZ]

Bonding or Training Contracts do one thing and one thing only.....Proclaim to the world that the airline hiring you knowingly does not provide adequate pay and lifestyle requirements and is a stepping stone. A company that adequately provides for a pilot does NOT need a bond.
Well said.