Social side of NATS [Archive]

man friday

28th Apr 2007, 10:47

j2wo,

been a long time since i went through CATCC down in bournemouth,but other than the pittance that new student atcos are getting paid i cant see the social side of college life as having changed that much.

a regular five a side game was always played between the students, allong with golf at the pitch and put course on the headland, and im sure one or two social beverages are still consumed at the "appropriate time" too.

you'll have a few die hard spotters on your course, but the majority of fellow students will be normal people, with pretty much the usual variety of out of work hobbies etc.

as for joining at 18, thats entirely up to you, i went through catc having just turned 19 and it didnt do me any harm

good luck with your future

wizad

28th Apr 2007, 10:49

unless you lack any social skills you will be fine at a unit.

centres are less of a small community as a tower so will be easier to bond with people as there are more people there. but at all units there are varied age ranges, interests, outside hobbies... its not to hard to find some common ground.

and as man friday says, he and some others go through early and are a success... just depends on the individual.:ok:

W

j2wo

28th Apr 2007, 11:01

Thank you wizad and man friday for your replies!

You all definetly sound really friendly! :p

Sounds really good what you say about CATC, I expect my decision about which I chose, NATS or uni, will be down to the time of acceptance by either (whichever accepts me first, if any! ;) )

wizad, do you find you know a lot of your colleagues at your unit personally or just know them by name or not even that?
Or in other words, are you friends outside of ATC with your colleauges?

wizad

28th Apr 2007, 11:24

both mate.

as i say im at a unit (LTCC) and on my watch there are in excess of 50 including ATSA's. theres a good group of lads and we do socialise both ATCO andATSA, but im also good friends with a few from my course on other watches here and in turn you socialise with others on their respective watches.
also people on my course at nearby towers, LL and KK still regular drinking buddies, much to the disdain of other halves' better judgement.

and lets not forget our colleagues and other course mates down the road at LACC.

like anywhere, theres always some you get on with and some you dont.

we do have watch group trips abroad a couple of times a year for those choosing to go. also mates here do go away together, world cup, cricket etc... the social side is there if you wish... dont have to go on everything and doesnt always involve beer....

W

anotherthing

28th Apr 2007, 12:03

j2WO

sage advice above... IMHO you would be silly to give up a place at Uni for a job at NATS... Get the 3 years partying and working relatively hard out of the way, then join NATS.

The coursework on NATS is far more intense than Uni - I had a great social life at CATC, but you need to temper this with being fit enough to do simulator runs etc.

If you join NATS, and fail along the way in training, what will you do??

If you have got your degree beforehand, then at least you have something to fall back on.

Take the poverty and fun now, it will be harder to go back to being an unpaid student if you try NATS first then have to go to Uni... even tho it is not that high a wage at the college, you will still miss it.

Good luck :ok:

j2wo

28th Apr 2007, 13:24

Thanks for latest replies!

wizad

Thats what I imagined, the trips part sounds really nice too ;) So its basicly everyone meets at college but you still stay in touch with some fellow trainees when you all split off into your units.

anotherthing

I'm still torn between the two, even though I know uni should go first for enjoyment, back up plan and all.
My birthday is in March, so I would apply for NATS on my birthday perhaps, and see if I get very far before final offers from unis in summer/September. (Not sure how uni applications work! :} )

Lock n' Load

28th Apr 2007, 14:12

Careful about calling all ATCOs friendly.... :E

I'd say uni first. True, it has no specific value to ATC training, but it gives you a chance to become better at dinner party conversation, and it p*sses off all the former ATSAs turned ATCOs and the old boys who like to loudly spout about how graduates have no common sense! :}

At uni, you'll make a few friends for life, and the chances are they'll all end up in fields other than ATC. If you go straight to the college, you can still make friends for life, and good ones too, but why not have both sets?

Inverted81

29th Apr 2007, 10:18

Hi..
Thought i'd add my 2P worth.
I went the UNI then NATS route. Something i believe is the correct thing to do. Not only does Uni give you the "fall back option" it does also gear you up to start studying at a higher level. I did a science degree at uni, and i personally didn't find the work at CATC any more challenging than my degree work.

As you are so young you have so many options to you. with 30 career years ahead of you why rush? Go travelling perhaps if you dont fancy the university route. ;)

I now work at an airport, and i like the closer bonds i feel you get working with a smaller group of people. ( i was at TC before) We also go out on trips, watch nights out and many of us meet up outside of work to play golf, go climbing and other interests including the aviation ones.

CATC was fun, a great time to get to meet your fellow students. These guys and gals are probably the closest mates i have had over the years and despite us now all being strewn across the whole country we keep in touch and still go to visit each other. :yuk: sickening eh? ;)

Good luck with the applications... (uni apps are easy peasy) getting the A level grades not so :)

Most of all have fun and do what feels right for you!
81

AlanM

29th Apr 2007, 11:27

I concur with the above:

I went RAF-Uni-NATS - definitely worth having something to fall back on.

Vampy

29th Apr 2007, 18:10

J2wo,
I went 'the other way' and joined NATS straight (well course started several months after A-levels) from school. I had the grades I wanted to go to the uni I wanted. But then the buggeration factor.....a job offer from NATS! Don't get me wrong, was very lucky to have the choice. I chose NATS for a number of reasons. I knew that ATC was what I wanted to do for a career so I figured why delay my desired career longer than I need to? Who can say what ATC recruitment will be like in 3 or 4 years (depending on your chosen degree) time?
One thing to consider though is the degree that you think you might want to do at uni. If it's a worthwhile degree that might actually get you somewhere (dentistry, medicine, journalism etc), then think long and hard about going to uni first. If it's a generic degree (I was going to do American Studies which, lets be honest, isn't exactly a doorway to untold riches! :) ) then for me it would be a no brainer.....
Socially? Well I like to think that I'm not a social vegetable as a result of not going to Uni! I have plenty of mates outside of ATC as well which acts as a nice balance! It's a nice situation to be in and to be honest whn you make the choice to go one route or the other, I'm sure you won't have too many regrets either way! Hope this helps! :ok:

Scarf

29th Apr 2007, 18:15

Agree with the above here, I went straight into College without going to Uni. I thought exactly the same as Vampy, why bother with a uni course when I have a chance to do what I've always wanted to do... i'm not sure I could've coped mentally with being at Uni, knowing that I had the chance to do ATC :P

Social aspect is great at the college, and as you've seen above from others' experiences, at units. We're all in this marvelous "game" together, so everyone kinda appreciates where everyone else is coming from (that's my experience at least!). If your only 16, then I'm sure your views will change over the next 2 years before "the final decision" has to be made. But it's completely up to you! There's pros and cons to both paths.. but as I said, i don't feel I'm missing out on the uni aspect at all with being at college! Hope that helps mate, all the best

Gonzo

29th Apr 2007, 19:11

Similar to the above, I had the grades at A-Level to go and do the Uni course I had my eye on (War Studies with History at Kings'.....would have enjoyed it immensely, but again not too many jobs in that field!).

I have never regretted not doing the Uni thing, and as has been pointed out, recruitment might change in the next few years...you might even have to pay for your training....:sad:

Quincy M.E.

30th Apr 2007, 09:18

Well one thing I would say is that it is going to be harder to come to college with any debt you may have accumulated at Uni (dont know if you can still defer student loans these days) what with the pay being £10k and as Gonzo points out this could get even lower.

Scotsliveit

30th Apr 2007, 09:57

Yes you can still defer you student loan at that salary(salary my arse). I was able to stop paying mine a couple of years ago when I took the drop to NATS £25K then.

Go to University first and discover who you are and who other people are. Grow as a person before becoming a NATS clone talking about how much money you earn or think you should earn. Thinking about mortgages, interest rates, marrying young and getting divorced;)

You don't have to kiss arse at uni to do well. You can be yourself as long as you work hard. Uni isn't all fun. I spent six years at Uni and you work bloody hard to get a good degree, that will make blue chip companies want you. You will have fun at Uni tho:E

Joining NATS is like joining the police, alot of old boys there may resent your degree. It gives you the power of choice to say I don't like this i don't want to work shifts and lie in a dark room on a beautiful sunny day, I don't want to spend the rest of my career in a workplace in the middle of nowhere near Southampton.

Best of luck which ever decision you make young fellow:ok:

wizad

30th Apr 2007, 11:40

scotsliveit.......

that college chip still sitting on your shoulder?

W

Gonzo

30th Apr 2007, 12:36

You don't have to kiss arse at uni to do well. You can be yourself as long as you work hard. Uni isn't all fun. I spent six years at Uni and you work bloody hard to get a good degree, that will make blue chip companies want you. You will have fun at Uni tho:E

Joining NATS is like joining the police, alot of old boys there may resent your degree. It gives you the power of choice to say I don't like this i don't want to work shifts and lie in a dark room on a beautiful sunny day, I don't want to spend the rest of my career in a workplace in the middle of nowhere near Southampton.J2WO, bear in mind that this is one person's opinion. At no stage have I ever felt;
A-That one has to kiss arse at NATS to get through.
B-That anyone (old boys or not) resents anyone else having a degree. Indeed, I honestly don't know if many of my colleagues possess a degree or not. There's an indication of how important higher education is to becoming an ATCO.

Scotslivet, please educate me, if you were so against working shifts (possibly on a nice summer's day) near Southampton (hardly the middle of nowhere), why did you ever apply?:confused:

I had great fun at the college. I also know many of my friends who didn't have fun at university. Go figure.

wizad

30th Apr 2007, 13:01

couldnt agree with gonzo any more.

just seems like a complete case of bitterness to me, for whatever reason. and i do believe that many other of his posts follow this theme for the college.
we had a great time down there, worked hard and got through. looking forward to moving down to the middle of nowhere to be honest where the air is cleaner, bars are many and not under the flight path of 09L.... but at least we have a nice castle.

W

MancBoy

30th Apr 2007, 13:43

Scotsliveit, I've just finished my second morning shift, now looking forward to taking my dogs down to the sea for a few hours as it is absolutely boiling in Southampton, the middle of nowhere yet surrounded by great countryside and a couple of hours from London!

Plus I don't have a degree and I couldn't care less whether my colleagues have one or not, also, I have never kissed anyones arse at NATS over the last 14 years so you are talking crap.

I note you spent 6 years at Uni, is that cos you failed there aswell?

My advice to anyone wanting to join NATS is if you think you can handle it, whatever your age, then take the plunge!

wizad

30th Apr 2007, 13:51

seemingly the majority here are on the same wave length.

degree or not, in this job who cares...

W

Van Der Hum

30th Apr 2007, 16:09

I note you spent 6 years at Uni, is that cos you failed there aswell?

No, that was cos he got a masters degree. However, that did mean that there was no one worthy/intelligent enough for him to talk to at the college!
He also failed the majority (four I think) of the written exams so having a degree isn't everything.

Scotslivet, please educate me, if you were so against working shifts (possibly on a nice summer's day) near Southampton (hardly the middle of nowhere), why did you ever apply?

Yes, do explain that especially linked to this... http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=157871

Scotsliveit

30th Apr 2007, 16:17

Oh dear is a voice of dissent not welcome in NATS?
Manc boy I spent six years at Uni because I also have post graduate qualifications. You didn't go to Uni so I suppose you wouldn't know that. Glad you're having a nice day. I decided to take a half day last Friday, walked my dog and then had a pleasant round of golf with a pal who'd just arrived in town that morning. It was a beautiful day.
I didn't fail at all, I resigned because it was crap. I'd made the mistake of bedding and making three attempts before I came down to contact a stuck up skank from north ayrshire who worked for NATS and decided to make it hard for me to. God you're presumptious lot aren't you.
I'm sure many people have resigned before. More people who resign or are chopped should post here.
I've got a couple of good friends who are BA pilots. One while studying at oxford told me how much he hated it, but he stuck it out as there was a job at the end of it that would take him many different places, meet many different people and is quite sociable. I didn't think NATS was worth sticking out.
Gonzo I know it's your job to recruit for NATS but don't be telling kids to through away a chance at Higher education. (maybe I've got you wrong though and you're not telling the kid that)
It's only three years in England to get a first degree, you can wait that long for your next supply of cannon fodder can't you? Look at your pass rates.

Oh dear I've just read Van Der Hum's post:

I was dealing with many more important personal things than studying for those exams as anyone in the know would understand, that's why I was offered a recourse from day three. I didn't study, I had to miss alot of classes also sadly. Nice to hear from a friendly voice from the past down there who was so interested in my exam results...

I'm one of the friendliest people you could ever meet maybe you should have made an attempt to.

MancBoy

30th Apr 2007, 16:29

Scots, it's a shame you wasted someone else's place at the college to decide that it wasn't for you!
Also, you say you left as it was crap.Is it not the case, maybe, that you jumped before you were pushed?

If it takes one stuck up person to pee you off then maybe you wouldn't have been mentally tough enough to take it anyway?

Plus, why is Gonzo wrong in saying that join NATS rather than go to Uni?

You could join at 18, make it and have a great career or fail and still be young enough to go to uni anyway.

flower

30th Apr 2007, 16:33

One has to wonder as Scotsliveit obviously detests us all so much why he wastes his time posting garbage on threads in the ATC forum.

The college had high and low points but there was no sucking up to anyone it was down to aptitude and sheer hard work, you either have it or you don't.

The social side of any working environment is up to you, some enjoy joining in others don't but I have never seen any snide remarks directed at those who choose not to. As for degrees , they do not make you a better ATCO in any way and if you wish to do the job then go for it you won't regret it, I wish I had now gone in younger but saying that my life before hand was good as well.

For any potential student looking at joining NATS remember the vast majority of us had a great time at the college even though it was tough, we wouldn't still be telling people what a fantastic job it is as well after donkeys years if it wasn't.
Scotsliveit posts are dull and repetitive and you just wish he would change the record :zzz:

wizad

30th Apr 2007, 16:34

a masters degree in arrogance then.
to be honest, if i wasnt in nats or an atco who had left for any reason i would highly doubt i would be posting here.... especially if its only to post more negative comments on ones very short lived experience.
the college is not a perfect place, we all know that. but sometimes its worth putting up with a bit of s**t to get where you want to be. and there is not that much of it to get through...
like any job there are always others, including peers and/or elders who possibly should not be there and making the decisions that affect others' careers..... but thats life. dont quit then spend the rest of your days bitching and moaning about it. hardly constructive for those wishing to pursue the career. come to think about it, i walked out on a paperound once as it was a joke.... maybe i should go stand outside the newsagents and do likewise to the ones looking for a job.

and with reference to j2wo for the reason why this thread was started, i hope you can see that those of us in this job, valid or not, are actually quite protective and proud of the jobs that we do and this extends to wannabe people with a genuine 'want' to do this job and willing to put the hard work in to get it and get valid.
W

Scotsliveit

30th Apr 2007, 16:38

I didn't waste anyone's place at all at the college at all. I was very enthusiastic loved the idea of the job and really did fancy a change at that age. You never know until you try.
Before I went down I would have happily have worked in Southampton. When I got there though the option of London or back home certainly had more appeal.
I'm quite assured in my mental strength or I wouldn't be where I am today, sadly though circumstance allowed this one person to get away with quite alot and I was 500 miles from home.
Why don't you send me a private message and reveal who you are Van der hum if you've got the guts.
God flower I don't hate you all. I don't know you all. You're right the posts are a bit repetive though. I think there is no harm in the lad trying for a degree.

There's something about telling a young person not to pursue higher education that irks me a little tho.

j2wo

30th Apr 2007, 17:26

Hey everyone,

I'm really sorry to have started a sort of arguement since I began the thread, not the intention! :sad:

Thanks to all those who gave positive replies and your own thoughts, I really enjoyed reading them, although havn't decided what I'll do but it is a little early right now.

Scotsliveit,
Thank you for your contribution, however I think the other guys here are right about your arrogance, if you aren't in this industry any longer why do you still frequent these forums? Thanks for your input though, gives two sides of the story. Thank you also for your concern about young people progressing to higher education.

wizad, flower, MancBoy, Gonzo, Scarf, Vampy, AlanM :ok:
Thank you very much for your positive replies, was really interesting reading each of them, reading how each of you began your careers either straight from school or uni. I can definetly see you enjoy the job you do since your all enthusiastic, thank you for all the advice. Don't worry, wizad, I can see that hard work can definetly pay off in this career. ;)

Sorry for creating an arguement due to my thread! :O
Thanks again!

Gonzo

30th Apr 2007, 17:38

Scotslivet,

If you're going to throw accusations around, at least make an effort.

Gonzo I know it's your job to recruit for NATS but don't be telling kids to through away a chance at Higher education. 1) It's not my job. I do not get paid any extra to do interviews and recruitment work.

2) At no stage have I advised anyone to throw away a chance to go to university. I had thought that perhaps those reading this thread might appreciate an alternative point of view to that which you put forth. At the end of the day, if one fails the selection process, there's no reason why one cannot go to uni the next year after having had a gap (almost) year. I have nothing against higher education at all, indeed I'm studying at the moment in my spare time.

J2WO, to bring this back to a positive note, take a moment to think through what you are really like. Not what you would like to be, but who you really are....how your friends would describe you if they were being really honest.

I did the same when weighing up Uni/NATS (and the BA sponsorship scheme at the same time too). I've always been pretty mature for my age, sensible and possessed of common sense (despite what some PPRuNe contributors might think - AlanM etc :p). Therefore I felt I was well prepared for a career without having the benefit of the 'experience' of Uni.

Sorry for creating an arguement due to my thread! :O

Welcome to PPRuNe!!!! :ok:

AlanM

30th Apr 2007, 18:51

mature for my age

Mate, I know you look 12.... but you have got to be older than that.

To be fair to gonzo, he is one of the very few on here who really knows form first hand experience about NATS current recruitment policies and procedures. He is the man in the know.

(That's the last time I big you up fella!!!!)

J2wo - you haven't started an argument - you have simply had an insight to ATCOs.....!! You could start a thread on anything and watch it go to WW3.

It's what helps make PPRUNE so addictive for some!:rolleyes:

Good luck either way, with whatever you choose to do first. Everyone is different.

Gonzo

30th Apr 2007, 19:59

I doff my cap, Alan. Although I didn't mention my looks.....But just how many near-bald 12 year olds do you know? :p

Quite frankly I can do without the 'big ups' as you call them. They sound quite uninviting.:eek:

AlanM

30th Apr 2007, 20:01

:cool: I didn't want to mention the folically challenged bit!!

MancBoy

30th Apr 2007, 20:11

Scots, after having a few blanks filled in about your goodself I'm more than pleased you never made it passed the first hurdle!!

NATS doesn't need people like you darkening it's corridors:=

Scotsliveit

1st May 2007, 08:07

I'm sorry Gonzo. I've obviously taken what you've written the wrong way. I do have a great deal of respect for the energy enthusiasm and knowledge you give the newbies.

Ahh I do know who you are Van der Hum... believe you failed a couple of exams as well, and you were focused unlike me and using the cheat sheets;)

Manc boy you know sod all about me apart from malicious gossip:=

Number2

1st May 2007, 12:51

'Manc boy you know sod all about me apart from malicious gossip'

Well, that, and the fact that you have come across to all the readers of this thread as an arrogant ar$e with a HUGE chip on your shoulder. I'm afraid you have damaged your own 'reputation' my old son.

smellysnelly2004

1st May 2007, 18:23

Scotsliveit,

Hello. I neither know you personally, nor what happened at the college so won't comment on that.
It does seem clear that the comments you make in this are for your own ends rather than offering advice to the initial poster. It's patently obvious that you're still annoyed at what happened but don't smuggle in your annoyance under cover of advice.

5milesbaby

1st May 2007, 23:06

Can't believe I've missed all this, Manc - you're getting rubbish at letting me know whats going on in here!!! :p

j2wo - my story is that I applied when I was 18, half way through my A-level 2nd year and was declined and told to go out and "experience life". That hurt but knowing what I do now, totally understand. I took a year out working behind a bar mainly and had a fantastic time, then went to Uni. I wasn't at the best Uni (by far!!) but had some things there I'll never forget that make me who I am today. Meeting all the different people, having to look after yourself, studying, partying, learning all about yourself and making yourself something, there's no better place. Halfway through my 2nd year I was doing really well but knew I wasn't going anywhere with my career prospects so re-applied to NATS and never looked back. I ditched Uni after my 2nd year (got a Dip Ed for completing 2 years successfully) and started NATS. Its the best thing I ever did. College was 18 months at that time, and everyone on my course had a theory of work hard, party hard. We bonded well from day 1, lost many along the way and formed personal groups, but ultimately we still stuck together. When starting at West Drayton we all split up into our new watches and formed further groups, but we still keep some of our college groups together. Some will become isolated from their private lives to their job life, others will make the job their life, others find a balance; none are right or wrong, just what you as a person want. I feel like I have a family at work and people treat me accordingly, its what you make of yourself and how you want to fit in. I think its a bizarre breed that actually make a good ATCO, can't explain it but hope all ATCO's know what I'm on about and is likely to be the reason Scotsliveit ditched a great career. I don't think there's a right/wrong time age wise to apply, but from personal experience say if you're mature for your age then go for NATS, if you've not tried lots of things, go to Uni first - give yourself the chance to go out get drunk, be wreckless, sh@g around, it'll set you up nicely for a career in NATS :E

I always like the idea that when asked "if you had a choice of any career you could possibly do (ie within reason) what would it be?", I always answer I'd do what I am today, I'd always be an ATCO. Sad? Maybe, but it is a fantastic career and I get great enjoyment from the work and the people I work with, but I can still quite happily slag off certain parts of the company. Thats natural in any company. There are always those you don't quite get on with, but everyone is different and those I might not like could be totally different from who someone else gets along with. Its all down to character.

Only you know what you really are like j2wo, have a good think about who you are and what you want, if its a great few years partying, living life and working out who you are then go Uni route, if you feel confident about yourself and character then go for NATS.

Scotsliveit - if you'd stayed in NATS then you'd realise that its quite easy to find out things about people, rumour network VAST. Mancboy knows enough........(we're training those that were successful from your course now) Those that jump probably wouldn't have made it anyway, wrong person for the job.

Mancboy - try not to take the pi$$ out of this post tomorrow, but I know you can't resist, just can't wait for the scousers to sort your boys out in Athens in a few weeks :ouch:

MancBoy

2nd May 2007, 08:57

Great post 5!

Which bar did you work in?

I hope we absolutely spank you on sat now:D

5milesbaby

2nd May 2007, 11:26

Started out in a residents private club in Cheadle then went to a "working men's" club in Poynton, don't think they'd let you north bankers in there :} :} :E

Good luck for the weekend, ya gonna need it - just make sure you beat them Italians tonight so I can get full enjoyment of you loosing the final :ok:

Scotsliveit

2nd May 2007, 15:09

So misunderstood...I just wanted to dance...why wouldn't they let me dance mammy?

As Alan Brazil says: Big Game tonight, Big game tonight supporting man utd of course mankyboy. Hope you enjoy it if you aren't working.

Stay in school kid, get a GOOD degree, live a little, there's no rush. Gee Smelly i've got a feeling I wrote this somewhere before.

Ciao

Lock n' Load

2nd May 2007, 15:47

This thread was only one page long when last I looked! Seems to have got a tad heated since then...

So, sticking to the facts. Here they are as I see them.

1) Only if you've been to BOTH university and CATC/some other ATC training establishment do you really know if a degree is worth it. I wouldn't be without mine. My only regret concerning the degree is that I successfully applealed the the result and got a lower second (a Desmond to those in the know, or a drinking man's first). Had I kept the third class degree I was originally awarded for my services to the brewing industry, I would be dining out on the fact to this day. I gather Oxford used to give 4th class degrees, and you had to be a really special drinker to get one of those.

2) A degree is of no particular value to operational ATC. If anything, ATC college exams are closer in style to school exams, or at least to school exams in my day when we learned about things other than lesbian parenthood and rehoming of injured foxes.

3) The drop-out rate at CATC or whatever the **** it's called these days is considerable, and the drop-out rate at units of first posting is higher still, so a fall-back option is well worth considering. That's not to say it wouldn't be possible to do a degree AFTER going to CATC if you were unsuccessful in training.

4) ATC is not the job it used to be. A watch manager at a NATS unit sent me an email a few days ago, and he is genuinely worried about his pension after 30+ years of service, and deeply concerned about the "thought police" aspects of the new corporate culture. The day will likely come when NATS introduces individual rostering in order to work every ATCO to their contractual hours and do away with the resultant surplus staff. Again, a fall-back is not a bad idea.

5) Potential recruits should try getting invited to all-ATC parties. Just see how much of the conversation is about work! It is really, really difficult to even turn the conversation to sh*gg*ng at an all-ATC party! Unless of course, the talk is of who is being sh*gg*d by management and what precisely that person would or should do to sh*g the manager in return. For those about to attend such a party, my suggestion is a cactus and some KY jelly. For serious overuse of management-speak, omit the KY.

6) Ultimately, it all comes down to personal choice. Of course, getting into NATS as a trainee is hardly a certainty even for someone with all the right ticks in the right boxes, so if you're in a position to apply to uni you should do so anyway. I wouldn't be without the uni experience for anything. What I can remember of it was great. :ok:

intherealworld

12th May 2007, 13:23

If you want some life experience, go to Uni. Bournemouth isn't the place for partying when you've got studying to do and bear in mind once valid you're potentially and most likely to be in the same place doing the same thing until you retire. Be nice to have some good memories to get you through the dullness. Uni is far harder than studying at the college. It's just you have plenty of downtime in between. Uni takes independent thinking, development of new ideas and you need to really understand a subject to pass the exams. On my course examiners would constantly set questions which had never been seen before to see if you had been relying on past papers to get you through. The college is very much high school learning, repeating parrot fashion what you have been told to, the understanding part is explored more in oral boards. It's the intensity of the learning which is a killer. I agree, a degree, if we mean the piece of paper you get, is no use really in ATC at all. But your social skills and independence will have been developed, you will have learnt how to learn, have a good group of non atc mates (so you're not always talking shop) and some good stories to tell to keep us entertained on night shifts. It cost me a fair bit in student loans and overdrafts which is going to take forever and a day to pay off but worth every penny.

high-hopes

12th May 2007, 14:57

to the people that tend to have a hard chip on their shoulder and make it look like NATS took the best years of their lives away, and you're stuck doing the same job int he same place for the rest of your life, do you actually think that it's any different in other professions ?

Now, I don't work for NATS yet but I have been an employed worker for the past 10 years and I haven't seen much happiness anywhere.
Do people actually believe that graduates end up landing dream jobs these days ?
You get what you can get and you get on the best way you can.
If all NATS can offer me is a good wage and some decent leave, actually that's good enough for me !
In fact, if I can choose between a crap job that pays me 23k (what I am current doing) and a potentially crap job which can pay me 45k, I'll go for the latter !
And if you don't like it you can still leave, it's not a prison !

intherealworld, do you think that university degrees are different ? You go thru "parrot fashiong" learning until the day you passed, only to realise you are not prepared for any kind of real working environment.

Don't blame NATS for giving individuals a chance to make a decent living.
And hurry up taking those college places available before it'll be all Polish students ! ;)

intherealworld

12th May 2007, 15:58

intherealworld, do you think that university degrees are different ? You go thru "parrot fashiong" learning until the day you passed, only to realise you are not prepared for any kind of real working environment.

I know they're different. I don't know what degree you may or may not have studied but I had to learn my subject from founding principles, not parrot fashion. It wasn't enough being able to apply the rules, you had to understand how the rules came about, so yes very different. Whether or not that sets you up for a real working environment is very much a different debate dependent upon degree and university.

to the people that tend to have a hard chip on their shoulder and make it look like NATS took the best years of their lives away, and you're stuck doing the same job int he same place for the rest of your life, do you actually think that it's any different in other professions ?

Never said it was. Just offered my opinion that once in you won't have chance to leave to do other stuff like university, travelling or ski seasons, so try to do it before joining. You're right it's not prison but people become used to the money, leave and pension, no one is going to risk it not being here when they return.

Now, I don't work for NATS yet but I have been an employed worker for the past 10 years and I haven't seen much happiness anywhere.

You're probably quite unlikely to on here as well, most people know a good thing when they see one. This where people come to have a moan or try to improve things for the better.

WildWesterner

12th May 2007, 22:22

It might be worth pointing out - and I think intherealworld is alluding to it - that once valdiated at an operational unit, a controller then has to set about maintaining a currency/recency of their ATC license.

You can comfortably take a 2/3 week holiday which is fine for me - I by the way, have no degree and don't regret the fact - but if you do dream of backpacking/forest planting/trekking to the poles etc. be prepared for the fact you will not just be coming back to work, you'll be coming back to re-validate.

I don't regret my choices, in fact i think my choices worked well for me, but validating once on each sector was enough for me!! :}

(Also, sabbaticals used to be commonplace but I don't know how our new NATS feels on the matter)

WW

WildWesterner

12th May 2007, 22:24

PS. I found Bournemouth a more than satisfactory place to party. I was still conditioned to learning, so I studied through the week and did almost nothing ATC related at the weekends, barring the aforementioned dreaded oral boards!!! :sad:

Each person is different though!

WW

Scotsliveit

15th May 2007, 11:58

Oh has this thread carried on? Interesting stuff. Gives me a chance for a final snipe though.
Wild Westener, seems like you worked hard and partied hard... respect. It would be interesting to hear your opinion if you could do the same thing on the new intense courses and if you found the variety of people different. Or did you recently go through CATC? Be interesting to note the differences.
oh Van Der Hum I notice you never PM'd me while I was away there, surprise eh you sneaky two faced, clique building, little oik, can't believe I forgot who you were. Must have blanked you out.
Note you write
'However, that did mean that there was no one worthy/intelligent enough for him to talk to at the college! '
Wrong mate I just didn't like you , so build a bridge and get over it and don't consider yourself to be everyone. I spoke to and liked lots of people there. On the course there were only two who annoyed me, you being one. Everyone else was top class but I as you know I was sadly preoccupied with other ridiculous issues.
Oh and flower most threads are pretty repetitive on here. mine just criticise your little bubble world. my experience was sadly not as shortlived as you may think.
Wizad don't tell me where to post threads pal. If I want to go to the one eyed Rangers fans donkey owners site I will. Just ignore them unless they strike a nerve that is ;)
Best wishes to all, fascinating job.

BAND4ALL

15th May 2007, 22:21

And this my friends is the social side of NATS!:ok:

ramesescolossos

16th May 2007, 08:00

Im more excited about starting the college now!

WildWesterner

16th May 2007, 14:51

Scotsliveit,

I joined NATS in the heady summers back at the turn of the century, just as NATS was going PPP. Therefore I got the substantially better trainee deal and the exciting share issue! :} Lucky me, eh?!

I suspect the easier financial situation reduced my stress levels and increased my alcohol intake, so I've no doubt it's tougher for those on the frankly ridiculous terms/cond's nowadays.

I was at the college recently, to do an instructor course, so I saw some superficial differences...

Firstly, i doubt the courses are any more intense than the ones I did, and in fact we had to endure it for longer periods as we did the extra ratings. Those ultimately unused ratings however, prepared me a damn site better than the poor sods now. My trainee the other day for example had no idea what was involved with a particular type of approach at Cardiff the other day - when the ATCO at FF told him he glazed over with that classic trainee response... Roger (:confused:, did we really understand the message?!).

Speaking from the outside, the foundation courses, or whatever they're called don't seem to provide much foundation. :ugh:

Secondly, the new intakes there must have an average age similar to the arsenal carling cup team and HND's in hairdressing! The last I heard, a creche was being installed to replace the common room, formerly the cinema, I believe. In fairness, the entry standards are still the same, so I guess that this is a reflection on the current t's + c's offered by NATS to trainees. I certainly don't knock youngsters, i was 19 when I joined.

Right, now I'm going to take your bait...

As this forum is meant to be about the social side of NATS, i'll point out a clue you give away in your post. Clearly you're not of the blue persuasion up there on the banks of the Clyde, which might well be a factor in any social issues (God forbid you might actually support Partick Thistle ;)) you have.

So far, after you're "final swipe", you've posted a couple more times!! I suspect another may be forthcoming!

Enjoy Glasgow, it's the only thing I miss about being in NATS.

WW

Lenny, i'm the moderator of the one-eyed Rangers fans donkey owners site, so if you need the link... :}

And prospective trainees, if you end up at LACC the christmas do's come complete with live entertainment in the form of management fist fights!!