25FT Lowflying Helo

[oli,_the_original]

There is some bloke who rides a horse on the local news (LookNorth) currently claiming a helo decided it would be a good idea to fly around at 25ft:ugh:
Now I'm not calling him a liar, but 25ft near Market Rasen on wednesday seems a bit far fetched. What do these people do with their lives except whinge and ride horses?

[airborne_artist]

It's a fact that most (but not all) people have a very poor ability to judge the height of a moving aircraft.

25 ft AGL would be very low indeed, and I doubt it's likely outside an MoD exercise area. My guess is that the aircraft was at no less than 125 ft AGL.

[wokkameister]

When I was a stude at Shawbury, there was a letter from a resident of Bowmere Heath stating the helicopters were so low she could make out the colour of the pilots eyes.

Yeah right....the gate height is 1000 feet. Must of been a relative of the six million dollar man!!

[SpotterFC]

If you really feel the need to abbreviate it - it's "must've", if not it's MUST HAVE.

And after that message from our sponsors it's back to the thread...

[oli,_the_original]

It's just what are peoples problems? And all this crap about 'The chinook sneaked up on me' they are big, green, airbourne and noisey, i mean where there are hills there is shadowing of the noise, but in Lincolnshire, it's flat. When they fly past me, you can hear them at 10 miles.

[soddim]

The real problem is not the judgement of height but the concern the helicopter caused so close to where the unfortunate death of a horse rider resulted from a low flying chinook.

I venture to suggest that it might not be a bad idea to have an 'avoid' notice on this area for a while to preclude any more local concern.

[HEDP]

I most definately concur.

" Horse riding is prohibited within 20 miles of Market Rasen for the next 28 days"

This is in order that the riding of wild animals and potential for distress to aircrew, should there be an accident, be minimised.

Gets my vote!!!

[Talking Radalt]

And can the equine community please post some kind of No-Horsebox-tam so when I go over to see me mum for Sunday lunch I don't get stuck behind some clapped out twenty year old Mercedes removal van which has been converted to carry Dobbin, last saw an MOT under Tory rule, and never goes above 15mph.

On a marginally more serious note, driving home tonight from a secret Hampshire helicopter base I passed four separate riders on geegees. Not one of them wearing their complimentary MOD hi-vis vest (one wasn't even bothering with a helmet).
And that's within the MATZ.
Simply asking for it IMHO.:rolleyes:

[Two's in]

helicopters were so low she could make out the colour of the pilots eyes.

Could be true - perhaps the pilot had very big eyes (probably got like that at the bottom of a hairy EOL)

[Zoom]

I remember a similar one in my Valley days where the whinger could not only make out the colour of the pilot's eyes but also that 'he was smiling at me!'

[Russell Sprout]

The whole issue of horses and low flying aircraft interests me. I work for an air ambulance and am regularly called out to attend horse riders.


I tried coming up with some stats but couldn't find anything apart from a snippet from a BBC website.... What i would say though, is that infrequent low flying military helicopters are the least of horse riders problems

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2007/03_march/23/riding.shtml

[Green Flash]

A thought: are all horses/riders insured, by law, when in public? Do all riders, by law, undertake and pass compulsory training and examination? Do all riders wear protective equipment by law? Are all horses checked for suitability to be out in public?

Me and my (t)rusty KLR250 are. Indeed, if you stood Dobbin and my Kawa side by side and produced a loud noise, my bike engine would very probably stop. Dobbin, however, will be 3 counties away approaching escape velocity no matter what the 6 stone wet through 15 year old school girl on the back does.

Just a thought.

[FATTER GATOR]

Are these whinging gits the same c:mad: s who buy a house near a military airfield and then put in noise complaints? f:mad: c:mad: c:mad: ckmasters!

[soddim]

Remember, FATTER GATOR, they also pay the taxes that keep the helicopters available for the use of the RAF and therefore they should be treated with respect. The greatest aspect of the freedom we defend is that everybody is free to state their opinion - you don't have to like it, but you must respect their right to say it.

[BRASSEMUP]

25 feet is not that low............................... If you come back with crops wedged in your skids then your low flying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:cool:

[oli,_the_original]

I thought low flying was when you came back with no undercarriage:}

[knowitall]

"I tried coming up with some stats"

I heard one a few years back, not sure if its true or how they came up with it that Horse riding has an accident rate worse than rugby league and freefall parachuting combined!

Horse riding is Dangerous, and you will have to deal with Helicopters,cars,sudden loud noises, plastic bags stuck on barbed wire fences etc etc

If your not prepard to accept the high level of risk involved then don't get on the horse in the first place

Green Flash

I've often wondered why kids are allowed on the roads on a horse but not on a motorbike

[oli,_the_original]

The laws about transport in this country are very strange.

You can get a licence to drive 16 Litre, 500hp of tractor at 16, but not a 1.0 litre car. You can get your pilot's licence before you can get your car licence. I've done this and it's very fun, apart from driving just seems such an anticlimax:E

[daze_gone_buy]

It's not only the laws regarding transport that are strange............

:ugh:

[Hugh Been'ad]

"they also pay the taxes that keep the helicopters available for the use of the RAF"
The helicopters are not for "the use of the RAF" as if it is a weekend flying club! The RAF/Army and Navy aircrew risk their LIVES on a daily basis in these helicopters providing the backup to the other servcemen and women who are also risking their lives across the world. The taxpayer pays for a service to defend the interests of this country and with that comes a training burden.
Market Rasen does have a published avoid which is respected for very obvious reasons. Accidents are tragic and any aircrew with an option will try and avoid any situation which may lead to an incident on the ground or in the air. High Vis garments worn by horses and riders make a huge difference and can help to identify a rider from a much greater distance which can give the pilot time to react.
Low flying is essential training and is not done to annoy the long suffering public. When aircrew are deployed the time for practice is over and reliance on demanding training is paramount. In the current climate of operations overseas, without the training we have, there is a far greater chance of more tragic stories hitting our headlines.

[The Rocket]

Hear Hear Hugh Been'ad

A very valid point you make. I agree entirely

[soddim]

Please don't get so emotional, Hugh Been'ad. Nobody is detracting from the job done by the RAF nor is anybody questioning the validity of the use made by the RAF of those assets provided for it. But some posters here - notably FATTER GATOR, need to remember to treat those who complain with respect.
As for realistic training - yes, the general public (many of whom are ex-military and probably know better than you how important that training is) know that is necessary. However, so far, the MOD have not convinced the horse riding fraternity in the Market Rasen area that they have adequate measures in place to avoid repeating the tragic accident still so fresh in their minds. That the recent complaints come from this area is evidence that the MOD needs to show more sensitivity to their perception that nothing has changed.
We should also be aware that Teflon Tony has not made the military flavour of the decade - even in Lincolnshire. His adventures in foreign lands that were excluded from our defence budget and planning years ago have not only over-stretched our forces but also created a growing perception that somehow associates the military with this issue. We need to tread carefully if we want the full support of the civilian population.

[Atlantic Cowboy]

Watch the interview again.They don't say that a complaint has been made to the MOD by anyone about the ac low flying. They were not shown riding at Market Rasen but at Thorpe-le-Vale which is not in the avoid area. (I know the fishery too well!)This looks like the Market Rasen crowd trying to be clever and the BBC going along with them.

[The Helpful Stacker]

Unfortunately the 'Market Rasen crowd' are giving the wider horse riding fraternity a bad name.

I ride horses and also work at the home of the noisiest of helicopters. The school where I ride has a land away area (is that what they called?) within 1/4 of a mile of it which is quite heavily used yet when I asked at the school if they have any trouble with helicopters they told me they weren't a problem.

Yes it was tragic that someone was apparently (I say apparently because I believe the RAF were entirely a scapegoat) killed by a low-flying helicopter spooking their horse but as already mentioned horses can be spooked by such things as carrier bags flapping on some barbed wire. As a rider you should always be both appropriately dressed to take the fall from a horse and also on your guard for the big, powerful animal you are riding doing something unexpected.