psychologically sound?

[SaddamsLoveChild]

Can anyone shed any light on the emerging requirement for Flt Cdrs to interview and sign a declaration that those under their command are mentally fit to deploy, and to re-interview their staff on return and offer comment on their return from OOA.:eek:

Where do non phsycologist qualified personnel stand legally if someone goes off on one either in theatre or once back in the UK. If I am to be be medicaly qualified by default of my position, can I also sign myself off for a couple of months with a bad back. Shouldnt this be the concern of the medical branch or is it an abrogation of their medical duty of care.

I interview as amtter of course to chat things through with my staff if they wish, both prior to deployment and upon return; but I wont sign a damn thing.:=

[Aeronut]

Excellent, at last, I get to tell everyone that half of my lot are truly mad.
I wonder what would happen if you really did certify someone as "unsound":rolleyes: Bet they would say you were discriminating and send them anyway.:ugh:

[Release-Authorised]

I think that it is best to allow subordinates to comment upon the mental capabilities of their own flight commanders! I've worked for a few mad b:mad: ds in my time!!

(No, Not you Sir).

[wokkameister]

Oh good. More pressure on our hard pressed Flt Cdr's! Not content with being budget managers and juggling a shrinking pile of resources/personnel, we now expect them to conduct psychological analysis.
How legally binding are these analysis? How far are they going to 'drop' an overworked Flt Cdr who gets it wrong?

Absolute garbage!!!!!

[Wader2]

Can anyone shed any light on the emerging requirement for Flt Cdrs to interview and sign a declaration that those under their command are mentally fit to deploy, and to re-interview their staff on return and offer comment on their return from OOA.:eek:

Didn't a chap write a book about this?

"Are you mentally fit to deploy?"

No, no it is stupid and dangerous, I certainly don't feel I am mentally fit to deploy.

"Ah, quite right, no one of sound body and mind would admit to being fit to deploy - FIT, next"

with apologies to Joseph Heller.

[airborne_artist]

According to that fount of all wisdom, the Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=346422&in_page_id=1770), being mad can actually help you get promoted:

"Being mad does not always get you sent to an institution. Sometimes it gets you to the very top of your profession.

Experts believe that millions of us are, at least to some extent, displaying the signs of madness.

In the vast majority of cases it does us no real harm. In fact, some kinds of 'personality disorder' could even be an advantage, especially at work. "

So send the mad ones overseas - they will remember you when they achieve Air Rank :E

[seekayess]

Unless we are still harping about that (ill)famed Kamikaze requirements of committed aircrew!!

In which case, I would have imagined being a bit off would have been a plus point, eh?

What next?

Let the COs start checking if the underwears of all crew are of the right fit? :ugh:

[c130jage]

So when sent to climates hot and sunny. Stick a pencil up each nostril and shout "wibble". Then theres no chance of going?

[dervish]

This rang a bell. I spoke to a civvy personnel/human resources person who confirmed that non-medically qualified civil servants are permitted to make medical decisions on civvy colleagues.

She also said that, because of this, some serious issues have arisen with duty of care. An example quoted was of a civvy's GP and consultants notifying MoD of his critical illness, but an unqualified personnel manager over-ruling them and advising the line manager to get him back to work. Line manager was a serving officer who responded that he preferred to accept the advice of qualified doctors, and sought advice as to who would now be responsible if, as the doctors' anticipated, the civvy fell ill at work. Good for him I say.

The implications are obvious. Litigation. Joking aside, a bit of a minefield this one.

[Gnd]

Is it April the 1st again, have I been asleep for a year - I have heard of some barking ideas but this is fantastic,

GP = 60K+ a year - less responsibility,
Flt Comd = 25p a year plus - gets GPs responsibility as well.

Oh how I love the military!!!!:ugh:

[Winch-control]

This has to be a wind up? if its not, open the flood gates and screw the arse off your Flt cdr!!!

[Winch-control]

And another thing, did you know... medical in confidence applies to all. If you consult a civvy Doc, they, if you instruct them so, cant tell your mil one; if you tell your mil doc something, and they tell anyone else, including your boss; if you tell them not to, they are liable to be struck off as a GP. Rant over..'Passionate on the rubbish med care in the RAF.

[Mal Drop]

As I recall, two Navigators on a Herc Sqn that wore yellow T-Shirts actually had chits declaring that they were no longer mad. It may be time to track them down and see how the policy stands...

[seekayess]

From all the posts till now, it seems no one considers it a possibility that the Flt Cdr could also grossly misuse this authority. In my time, I have come across quite a few (to be polite about it!) Flt Cdrs who were rather vindictive about someone or the other under them!

Remember: it is an authority that does not have the backing of responsibility. No one could sue the Flt Cdr at a later stage for "Malpractice" now, could one? After all, judging a person's sanity (or otherwise) could never be proved legally to be the trained and taught job of a Flt Cdr!

Bit of a Pandora's box there, methinks!! :ugh:

[Pontius Navigator]

"In my opinion ............ (rank) ............... (name) is/is not mentally balanced and capable/incapable of doing his/her job at ....................... (station or unit) which is exhilarating/steady/boring and has regular/irregular hours on a ............ (insert number between 1 and 4) day week in a satisfactory/unsatisfactory manner provided he/she is fed at regular times in clean air conditioned accommodation that has a private bedspace/room/en suite room/apartment/house with spouse/wife/husband/partner and adequate supplies or alcohol and/or pork pies. If any of the above conditions are not met then I have not the slightest idea."

How about that?

[Release-Authorised]

So if I declare all of my flight "mentally unbalanced" (which is not too difficult with me in charge) then I do not regularly lose my trade specialists to guard duty in the desert and I can achieve my tasks at home with the minimum of disruption and overtime to the benefit of the flight.............

Everybody after 3.... "WIBBLE". :ooh:

[Pontius Navigator]

Release-authorised, that is a logcial assumption that clearly illustrates that you are of sound body and mind.

How will your troops fare with you out in the sandpit?:}

[Release-Authorised]

PN:

I just write "Sod Peacekeeping - I want to kill r*g h**ds" in the preferences section of my OJAR. Works Wonders, because you never get what you want!:E

[teeteringhead]

actually had chits declaring that they were no longer mad.. we had some of those on the SH Force too...

I recall one occasion in the mighty Wessex (Queen (Mother) of the Skies) the following conversation took place...

Co-pilot: Hey boss...... are you sane?

Moi (surprised): Er, well, yes ... I suppose so :confused:

Co-pilot: But have you got a chit to prove it? - Cos I have!

Crewman's voice (from engine room): And so have I!

Moi: :eek: :eek:

[Pontius Navigator]

Mrs PN comments that apart from supervisor, leader and manager, you are also a career counsellor, financial advisor, legal advisor, insurance, welfare, social what have you.

Are you registered with the appropriate trade bodies to exercise all these extra curricular tasks?

[DKP1]

is this the order you refer to??


"Points to note.

The objective of the interview is NOT merely to check that the individual has been issued with their equipment and knows where they are going. It is designed to ensure that they are both physically and mentally fit for deployment"

mmmmm

just had to do one of these, signed it off .........he seemed ok to me your honour!

[SaddamsLoveChild]

Thats the one my dear boy.

[DKP1]

maybe the designers of the interview could be held to account for not designing it properly?? :} :} The annex that you fill in and send on doesnt have any reference to mental or physical health except to ask if the correct medicals etc have or are being undertaken......


Think you may be getting over-excited.......

[StopStart]

As I recall, two Navigators on a Herc Sqn that wore yellow T-Shirts actually had chits declaring that they were no longer mad. It may be time to track them down and see how the policy stands...

Yeah, but I always got the impression they must've written those chits themselves. Never saw said chits myself though, however I was always fairly confident they were written in crayon... Or blood.

:p

[Wader2]

Winch-Control,
And another thing, did you know... medical in confidence applies to all. If you consult a civvy Doc, they, if you instruct them so, cant tell your mil one; if you tell your mil doc something, and they tell anyone else, including your boss; if you tell them not to, they are liable to be struck off as a GP. Rant over..'Passionate on the rubbish med care in the RAF.

May I refer you to QR 1474 for the Royal Air Force:

The MO of a station is to be in medical charge of the unit or units located at the station and is the responsible advisor to the CO of the station on the physical and mental health of officers and airmen, the prevention of sickness, the maintenance of health and the comfort and well-being of all personnel. He is to bring to the notice of the CO any officer or airman engaged on flying duties whose physical or mental efficiency is deteriorating through fatigue or other causes.

Seems pretty clear cut here, no mention of delegating psychological assessment to laymen.

Equally, as far as aircrew are concerned, you can kiss medical confidenciality goodbye.

[Winch-control]

Interestingly enough, I have private health care. Not that I dont trust our outstanding serving military Doctors you understand, but because I didn't want to take any time off work; I requested a referral from the mil to a civvy and this was granted. I told the civ consultant that I did not want my referral info passed back to the mil. He didn't. I also informed my mil Doc that if he passed my request for a civ referral up the chain, I would report him, as a GP breaking confidentiality, to the GMC. He didn't. Bottom line; forget the QR! You have rights to confidentiality that move in circles that a GP will not transgess. I have pressed to test!

[BootFlap]

Hang On!
If I declare that my whole flight is mad, then I would assume that there is little (or no!) need for an OJAR for each of them; surely it must be against Section (insert random number) of the Human Rights Act to comment on a persons fitness for promotion whilst I have also declared them mad. Therefore, less administrative burden for the poor (and may I say, sane) flt cdrs.
Also, if I declare one of my JPs mad it is my 'duty of care' to ensure the poor mad f@ckers don't fly, maybe the auth desk would be a good place. As an aside, this would also ensure that the flt cdrs would have a pick of jets (I'll have the one with the eff'ing big bombs please!) and plenty of hours to hone our exceptional (and also sane, stable, extroverted) skills. This is turn would solve the retention problem for experienced aircrew and ultimately save HM (God bless you Ma'am) a bucket load of cash that we could invest in even better things that go whoosh, and then bang!
HAPPY! You are all officially mad, I'll sign it.

[dogrobber]

sorry dear boy , but until i see a medical doctorate honourification in front of sq/nldr, wing cmdr notaclue then u might find yourself in the deep dwang , happened on an isk sqn few yrs ago so beware there r real mad f:mad: rs out there.

[BootFlap]

But surely if I declare all of them mad (apart from me, obviously darling) then it is safe. As soon as a qualified heeeed doctor tells me it's ok then they can fly, and I shall humbly apologise for my cautiousness (is that really a word?) but assure them I was only concerned for their well-being, and not merely nicking all the good trips?

It just seems you can't do right for doing wrong nowadays. I blame it on the French....

[Hill Walker]

Does that mean all the 'You don't have to be mad to work here, but it helps' signs will have to go? Could be construed as being offensive to people who are actually mad.

[Mr-Burns]

Being a Flt Cdr myself, I would just wish to point out the following:

My old man's a mushroom. The fish that work for me are wearing trousers held up with pink twine and the moon is made of cheese. Gib Gib. Petwang petwang.

Next officer in for his interview please - and leave that dress-wearing toad outside the door.

[seekayess]

They just don't make 'em like they used to in the good ol' days!!

[Big Cat Handler]

Speaking of "sane" chits, the best one has to be the SH crewman who was officially sane, as 2 out of his 3 chits said so!

[Ali Barber]

I know of one F3 nav who had 2 "I am sane" chits. Didn't believe either of them!