AirSea Lines (UK Seaplanes to fly once more)

[GBALU53]

gms1991

The story goes something like this.

There was a travel trade show at the XL trade centre at London Docklands a couple of months back.

A Twin Otter SX-BVP of Air Sea Lines from Greece landed on the Thames and moored near the centre for a number of days.

This is the company that is interested in possible running Twin Otters for the 2012 Olympics as some of the competitions are a long coach ride and the Olympic village is near the Docklands to operate of the Thames and land possible near some of the events on water like sailing a Plymouth to name just one.

Not only they ewuld like with the help of other Twin Otter operators to get the production line open again, so there is a lot happening to do with the Twin Otter lets hope it come off.

[ORAC]

Torygraph: Seaplanes to fly once more (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/04/22/nplane22.xml)

One of the most romantic modes of air travel, which faded with the British Empire, is set to return as plans are made for a fleet of seaplanes that will fly to destinations across Britain.

In the golden age of the seaplane in the 1930s and 1940s, the "Empire Boats" of Imperial Airways would fly, complete with library, cocktail bar and smoking lounge, from Southampton to South Africa, with stops that included -Athens, Alexandria, Khartoum and Lake Victoria. The new generation of seaplanes, however, will possess a much shorter range than their earlier counterparts, but the vision behind them is no less ambitious: a new seaplane flight school has been set up and there are proposals for a multi-million pound investment to reintroduce domestic flights.

AirSea Lines, which runs services in the Mediterranean and Canada, has unveiled plans to bring at least 10 aircraft to Britain during the next five years. The company has earmarked three "hubs", or areas around the country in which they will operate services. These are the Lake District, north Wales and London.

Michael Patellis, the company's president, said: "Seaplane transport is a hidden treasure for Britain. Water is a natural place to land and there are many places in the country that are well suited to them. They can be a real alternative to cars and trains as well as other forms of air travel. They are safer than helicopters and cheaper to operate. You can fit more passengers on board and they require very little extra infrastructure."


Flights from Cardiff to remote bays in north Wales and services in the Lake District will cater for tourists, while routes from London to lakes and waterways in southern England, are also intended to attract business and commuter use. Flights from London to the Lakes are also possible. One proposal is to offer flights from the capital to Oxfordshire, which would cost about £120. A test flight has been carried out from London's Docklands.

Walter Stark, the company's UK-based vice-president, said: "It's about offering alternative means of getting people to difficult-to-reach areas. But it is also very much a lifestyle thing. There's a real need to be served and we're very keen."

The company mainly uses the DeHavilland Twin Otter, a rugged and reliable aircraft developed for exploring northern Canada, which can carry 19 passengers and land on runways as well as on water. Production of the Twin Otter stopped in 1988, but restarted this month to meet the expected increase in demand over the next decade. AirSea Lines is expected to be the main customer. The company currently has nine aircraft in Europe but wants to increase this to 50 - including at least 10 in the UK - by 2012.

The company is in negotiations with Think London, a government-funded agency that encourages foreign companies to invest in the capital, as well as with the Welsh Assembly and Cumbria Vision, a company set up to encourage investment in the Lake District.

Moves to fly into the Lake District are likely to prove the most problematic. The company will have to secure permission from the Lake District National Park Authority, which has enforced a 10mph speed limit for boats on Windermere. Seaplanes travel at least six times that speed on landing and take-off.

A further sign of the seaplane's comeback is a new flight school set up by Scotia Seaplanes, in Glasgow. The company has been established by Hamish Mitchell, who is also chairman of the UK Seaplane Association. "There is a real renaissance in seaplanes and with the increased interest of commercial operators there's going to be a growing demand for pilots," he said.

[Rollingthunder]

Good to see the Twin Otter back in production. Always thought there was still a market for the aircraft.

But surely a floatplane - not a seaplane.

[maxalt]

Twin Otter.....complete with library, cocktail bar and smoking lounge
LOL!!!:O
Classic! :ok:

[kaiser bill]

Real pilots fly boats.......maybe it's true

[Krystal n chips]

I am sure the company have done their market research here---however---"remote bays in North Wales" :hmm: ---where, exactly, did they have in mind ? I can only think of the Llewyn Peninsula in this respect which begs the question-----and I admit I know nothing about floatplane ops. here---what about the sea state conditions for landing and take-off given the Irish Sea is not a placid piece of water at the best of times.

I am sure it's not a romantic dream to operate these flights---but the market must be limited surely as would the operating periods---summer months only ? and even then the weather can be fickle enough. I am not being cynical here--just curious as to how they plan to operate and to where.

[HotDog]

where, exactly, did they have in mind ?
Colwyn Bay, Porthmadog, Menai Strait, Caernarfon; just to mention a few.

[BEagle]

Thames Water have plans for a ginormous reservoir near Abingdon and Didcot. Ironically enough, this was once a proposed area for a new 'London' airport....

But 15-18 seat Twotter flights from Abingdon Lake to a seaplane base at London City (53 nm as the crow flies) would be very convenient for many! 25 minutes from Oxfordshire to Docklands, perhaps? Particularly now that Viking have relaunched production of the aircraft.

If the reservoir has to be built, then bring it on!

Perhaps Farmoor Reservoir is already a possibility for such flights?

[Wingswinger]

Thames Water have plans for a ginormous reservoir near Abingdon and Didcot. Ironically enough, this was once a proposed area for a new 'London' airport....

Does it indeed? Whereabouts? I wonder if the residents of the villages surrounding Abingdon and Didcot have been consulted yet.

[Krystal n chips]

HotDog,

Non of those locations could really be construed as "remote" could they?. The A55 serves all of them as do the rail links to Holyhead and Porthmadog. True, the road from Caernarfon to Porthmadog is a pain at times---but Caernarfon already has a GA field so why fly into the marina area ?. I am not being negative here, it's that I just cannot see the viability of the operation into areas that are already well served for access--Summer congestion apart I agree---which brings us back to remote locations of course--and the sea state. Out of interest, for those who are experienced in such operations, just what is the sea state criteria for landing / take off please?.

The viable operation is the one that BEagle mentions---for obvious reasons as anybody who tries to get into London and the surrounding area (s) would confirm--but "remote" locations in North Wales would surely be a non starter in terms of loads and revenue generation---other than those who wish to pay for a unique --in the UK at least--means of flying. Then of course there is the proposition to fly to the Lake District. I think, given the constraints on just about anything that moves in the area, the term "problematic" may be a classical understatment here.

Yes, it would be nice to see the operation suceed, however, I feel it's potential is slim and frought from the onset. Nice to be proved wrong of course-----however.

[BEagle]

To travel from 'Oxford lake' to LCY and then on to Europe would be a significant possibility. So much pleasanter than flying from Thiefrow after a slow trip along the M40/M25/M4...

But if that includes 'yellow jacket' idiocy and taking shoes off etc, forget it!

[bunnywabbit]

I think its a good idea and would take a flight for the fun of it. If it becomes a success a CV will heading towards them. Now would they pay landing fees or mooring fees because its fact some authority will try and shaft them somehow.

In about 1994/5 someone was operating a Lake seaplane from Weymouth Bay in Dorset. Does anyone know what happened to this operation?

[DONTTELLTHEPAX]

How cool could I have a ticket from STN to Keswick lake,
I hate 6 hr the drive to Workington, where my mum and dad live
and it looks like CAX will never offer pax flights.:}

[tacr2man]

Can anyone see the slightest possibity of permission for a landing area being given in this area? I cant, unless someone comes up with an electric engined aeroplane. what with the noise polution involved:hmm:

p.s. the folks arround Abindon are well aware of the reservoir plans of Thames Water

[BoeingBoy]

Small Question???

Can a Twotter with twenty pax, one stewardess and baggage actually mantain altitude on one engine whilst lugging a pair of floats about?

I'm told that the Maldives fleet carry either bags or pax, but not both on their longer legs.

Don't think I'd like to be over, or in, Oxfordshire if the answers NO.

I also agree with the above though in that it's nice to see the Twotter back in production. I have many happy memories of lugging oillies and mail bags around Scotland in one thirty years ago. (God, is it that long ago!)

[sidestick driver]

With climate warming approaching, this Twotter will soon be water taxying closer to central London than you think!:oh:

[fantaman]

This is something thats making quite a come back here in the UK. Up here in Scotland we have Loch Lomond Seaplanes who fly the Cessna Turbo Stationair on charter and pleasure flights from their base at loch Lomond.

They have though, just been given permission to commence scheduled flights to and from the river Clyde in the centre of Glasgow, Scotlands second largest city.

Take off from the River Clyde.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i165/martin4356/gq4q0693.jpg

[Xeque]

This was my ride out of my Maldive hideaway a few years back.
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s113/Xeque22/FloatTwotter.jpg
They used reverse thrust to back them onto the beach so passengers could walk on board along the port side float dry footed.
As I recall there was no problem with baggage and a full load of pax. We were about an hours flying time south of Male with two stops on the way.
Arriving and departing from my island in this way was a real plus for my holiday. I also got my PADI open water too!

[Flightrider]

Looks like a cracking way for the water utility companies to make more money - charge float-plane operators landing fees for use of reservoirs.

[international hog driver]

AAHHH SUN EXPRESS!

My First Twin Otter Command on SUM & SUN.

Where were you Xeque? Ari Beach my second home! It was probably me as there were only 3 captains most of the time.

Its a pitty that they dont exist anymore, I certainly hope that the owners do better with their second airline than they did with us!

(Kingfisher, UB Group owned us)

[Gards]

Air Sealines does not have 9 Twin otters. They only have 2 and are not even operating right now.

[Xeque]

International Hog Driver.
It was indeed Ari Beach. Left seat was a young guy, German I think. Right seat was an older gent (was that you?) The cabin was manned by another young guy. All three were barefoot and wearing shorts. Fabulous! :ok:

[Wingswinger]

fantaman,

Glasgow, Scotlands second largest city.

I always thought it the largest. Certainly still looks that way from the air.

[international hog driver]

Xeque......

If I told you I live in Berlin..... does that give it away!

I am not as young as I look(ed) it was a long time ago now.

Some days when I am getting screened in security before getting in th front of a boeing, I think how much easier life was when I did not even have shoes to remove!

However I have never had to swim out to a 737 on the ramp, because the boat broke down and the plane was tied to a mooring.

Thanks for bringing back the memories.

[Krystal n chips]

There was an article on the local Beeb News about this last night. On one hand, there was a hotelier on Windermere saying what a wonderful idea--well he would obviously---then came the opposition so to speak---a quick rant about the flights being intrusive and the fact that London is 3 hr train journey away-so why fly up ?---seems the opposition is already gathering it's ammunition---again, no surprise. A quick mention of the Loch Lomond operation as well-----but the best bit was showiing Sunderlands landing on the lake. Still think it's a non-starter however

[garethjk22]

Gards,
I think you will find you are inaccurate in both your claims. Firstly, they are operating around the Greek Islands and you can check their website for all the details!

As I understand, I think they have 4 or maybe 5 aircraft operating at the moment.

As for landing on the Thames, well they brought an aircraft in for World Travel Market made quite a spalsh (sorry couldn't resist).

Finally, the notion of linking to North Wales and the Lakes is not as far fetched as you may think. Of course the point was made it has a train service. But it taked 4 -5 hours and the idea of these links to improve accessibility which will have a very positive economic spin. The Lakes is incredibly remote compared to the rest of the UK and hence with the right political will and support this little project has massive potential - it just required people to think beyond the norm.

[Johnno1981]

Hi International hog driver,

That sounds like a great job you had there! Something I'd love to do myself. Do you need a lot of float experience to go into the RH seat of one of the Twin Otters? I've got a 1000 h single engine, mostly instructing in the UK. Thinking of getting my Float rating.

Cheers,

John

[Gards]

garethjk22 at the time of my posting I assure I was not mistaken. I knew the majority of the pilots emploed at the time and I assure you they were not operating and I can guarentee you they didnot havemore then 2 Otters on floats at that time. There are only so many Twin Otter captains flying floats in conditions like Greece and the Maldives and having been a Twin Otter captain in the Maldives at that time I assure you I am not inaccurate. In fact the previous DOM was working with us in the Maldives and he im sure was in the know.

They are now operating once again as I have a friend that is working there. Again I am sure they do not operate 4 or 5 planes at the moment regardless of what there website says. Dont always believe what you read.

[walu]

I fully agree, the website is a complete smokescreen but some of their plans could work if only they weren't such incredibly poor managers. Their marketing is a complete flop and only some of their routes could ever be a success. The London trip was brilliant but they failed miserably to capitalise on the publicity. If one knows a little of the politics and economics of Greece then it would be best left with the Greeks to deal with. It's still a completely foreign concept which needs to grow organically (small and slowly) in order to succeed in Europe for the long term.
That's my ten cents worth anyway.
:hmm: