AOPA - why I am no longer guilty about renewing my membership

[Fuji Abound]

In view of the discussion recently about the proposals to introduce a simplified PPL IR I felt guilty that I had not renewed my AOPA membership for some years.

It was a good opportunity to look at their web site.

http://www.aopa.co.uk/

The main page seems to be concerned with commercial advertising and something of interest to instructors.

I though the section on GA news should prove interesting .. .. .. CAA issues, consultations, Dept of Transport - there should be some good stuff here. Oh dear, the information regarding CAA issues dates from 2005. There is nothing better else where.

The latest news seems to be concerned with cheap Jersey fuel, a petition against road charges (with the tenuous link seemingly being to do with the cost of getting to the airport) and saving the Red Arrows - all very worthy I am sure.

Not a mention that I can see of any of the current issues important to me like ELTs for all, the PPL IR proposals and others.

Compare this with:

http://www.aopa.org/

The home page has no obvious advertising and is full of up to date topical issues.

I know the usual excuse is AOPA UK is poorly funded compared with AOPA America.

In my view it is a very weak excuse. A modern web site that makes an instant impression on the browser by telling them what they are about and what issues are topical costs no more or less than AOPA UK’s lack luster site. What ever these people do (and it may well be excellent work) they certainly are determined to hide their light under a very large bushel.

Guess what .. .. ..

I made the right decision, and I shall no longer feel guilty.

[S-Works]

Give them a chance Fuji.

The new website is under construction and is looking very nice indeed. But as you point out AOPA UK is under funded especially compared to the US. The money that is paid in subs to AOPA UK is spent on the important things like representation. Little is left over for paying expensive web designers so the web site has been a slow mover. The advertising is what pays for the web developers rather than using your subscriptions.

AOPA is a MEMBERS organisation and requires the members to provide input. AOPA UK realised that they had become out of touch with the membership and formed the working group. We are making in roads into improving communication and the fact that you know about the IR changes via people like myself is proof in the pudding.

I do agree that the organisation is orientated to much towards the Corporate members and Instructors (even as one myself) and I have comments to make regarding the way the policy seems to be made by the Instructor committee who are hopelessly out of touch with the membership. But again I am doing it from the inside.

Only by supporting AOPA, both by paying membership and volunteering your time to help will things change. Just slagging them off on the internet because they don't meet your expectations is pretty low.

If you want change ask for it, tell them what you want, even better volunteer and do something about it.

Personally as a volunteer who was unhappy and so volunteered to help make change I find your comments despicable.

So very British to bitch about things but make no effort to change them.

[Final 3 Greens]

Personally as a volunteer who was unhappy and so volunteered to help make change I find your comments despicable.

So very British to bitch about things but make no effort to change them.

So very British to disregard feedback by demonizing the person who took time to give it.

I had a look - it is a lacklustre website and a poor advert for AOPA UK.


I note that Fuji asys that may do good work, but hide their light under a bushel.

That seems a reasonable comment from where I am sitting.

[S-Works]

Its not feedback it's bitching. Coming up with constructive ideas about how things could change and passing them to the organisation concerned is feed back. Criticizing on an internet forum is not reasonable comment.

Constructive would have been to state that they feel the site is lackluster and what could be done to change it, maybe even asking if there are any changes afoot. Not just panning it and saying they are glad they did not pay up.

Same people who will moan like mad when they have compulsory crap fitted to there aircraft or cant fly at all anymore but did not nothing to support representation.

Sorry but thats the way I see it.

[robin]

I sincerely wish AOPA well. At our club there have been many discussions about joining/renewing memberships.

I think the problem for most PPLs is that AOPA does much good work in the political sphere. Unfortunately, they do seem to feel they are the only ones able to do this work on behalf of UK GA, and have often criticised organisations such as the BGA/PFA/BMAA etcas being amateurs.

Martin Robinson in particular makes it clear that AOPA subs go towards funding these political activities, unlike the subs of the PFA/BGA.

At the CAA conference, AOPA was singled out by the DfT and CAA, and it was suggested that we should all become members so that they could have a single voice for GA, ie AOPA.

Unfortunately (again), AOPA hasn't really stood up for my sort of flying, and its subs are too high for the limited clear benefit I see.

As a member of the PFA and (sort of) the BGA, I have the representation I require through the GA Alliance - an organisation that AOPA, uniquely, has failed to engage with.

I hope that the AOPA volunteers do manage to turn AOPA around, but from my position, they do need to demonstrate that they are not just political animals (as shown in Martin's diary in the General Aviation magazine), but also have relevance to the mass of GA pilots.

[Final 3 Greens]

Its not feedback it's bitching.

" information given in response to a product, a person’s performance of a task, etc., used as a basis for improvement."

That is from the Concise Oxford Dictionary - it does not include "constructive" in the definition.

Fuji has highlighted some areas that he perceives as deficient and now it is up to AOPA to decide whether to accept or reject that feedback.

You are being judgmental, dismissive and defensive and presenting a poor argument for AOPA.

[Fuji Abound]

Now come on Bose I would like to think you and I get on fine.

1. Any organisation is only as good as what it is seen to do. Advertising has its part to play. Unless AOPA tells us, we have no idea what may be going on behind the scenes - and I have given you a perfect opportunity to tell us and hopefully done my bit for AOPA by getting a few people to read my post and your reply: and remember there is no such thing as bad advertising,

2. However, why does it require a post such as this to illicit AOPA actually telling us what they are doing?

3. I still dont buy the funding argument. Knocking together a half decent web site costs a few shillings and it doesnt need to be fancy - it just needs some half decent information which relates to this year and todays issues, not what was happening three years ago,

4. and all that aside I did my bit - ten years a member, and more than a few emails both suggesting to help and hopefully highlighting a few issues which I felt important. Sadly on more than a few occasions I didnt even get the courtesy of a reply,

I hope it is changing. I hope we see the changes. I hope you have an impact.

However, on this occasion I want more than a few promises please and I think a fair few other pilots would agree with me before they put their hand back in their pocket.

.. .. .. and so I reckon I have done my bit because you may get some comments from otheres that are more constructive and you have a perfect opportunity to get the light out from under your bushel, however I shall be happy to go on "slagging them off" until I see the changes this time - and then, and if, I will gladly rejoin - if they will have me that is.:)

[BlueRobin]

Seems easier to access any info through the mag, which is available online for free
http://www.iaopa-eur.org

[flower]

How about posting your comments on here;
http://www.joinaopa.com/forum/

Then those running AOPA should see them

[S-Works]

Fuji, we get on great which I why I feel I can say what I think!!!

You do have some valid comments about AOPA as do the others posting on here. But the problem is scathing comments are made without asking the questions first and that can very disheartening to those of us working to make change. The cost of developing and maintaining a quality website is a lot higher than you think. The MWG reviewed this last year and the costs were quite high, this comes from your subs or it comes from advertising. Personally I prefer to see it from advertising. The new website is much more dynamic.

But here is a thought.... AOPA are looing for regular contributors to the website. Why not write something to help keep it fresh and dynamic? It is after all a site that represents you the member.

Personally I would like to see the move away from a printed magazine to a sully interactive dynamic web site that has all of the hot issues instantly. The magazine is produced a couple of months in advance and so theses issues don't tend to appear at the rate they do on the "wire" so AOPA are criticised with not communicating well. The magazine has been a a real stalwart of AOPA and under Pat Mallones steer has been a first class magazine. But I do feel it is time for AOPA to move more into the wired age.

AOPA does a very good job of representing us as aviators and are dedicated to the cause. The organisations mentioned are not representative bodies in the same way. They are busy sorting out training, airworthiness, permits etc all intent on making money rather than having aviation issues that effect us all.

As flower points out, AOPA have there own forums and we are trying to raise and discuss the issues on those forums. Answers will be coming from AOPA management to issues. But as PPrune and Flyer et al. know the life blood of a forum is them members. We need people to sign up and contribute to the AOPA forum.

So come on guys contribute, this is a call to arms for volunteers!!

[scooter boy]

I have been a member for 2-3 years and although the subscription is not inexpensive it pays for itself through the year in fuel savings in Jersey alone.

The free to members magazine is a good read and more pertinent to the kind of flying I do than many of the high street flying mags.

The best reason to be a member is undoubtedly representation, you never know when you might need it.

Considering their miniscule manpower in the UK I think they do a great job.:D

IMHO If you own an aircraft you should be a member,

SB

[BlueRobin]

There was a rumour that the effort put into legal rep is not all it is cracked up to be.

[IO540]

There was a rumour that the effort put into legal rep is not all it is cracked up to be

There is a rumour about everything in this business, but common sense tells you that you aren't going to get a £500/hour QC, to represent you in a CAS bust case caused by you forgetting to wind up your stopwatch, or change the GPS batteries.

It's like the "free legal cover" you get with your motoring policy. When you look at the circumstances where this is usable, they are very narrow indeed - and have to be otherwise it would bankrupt the organisation.

The CAA rarely prosecute. There is a PDF going around (on their website) listing 2005 cases. Obviously it lists only those which they won, but it puts to bed the widespread rumour that they go after everybody they can.

The reason to join AOPA is IMHO to support an organisation which campaigns quite effectively for UK GA in general. Then join PPL/IR (http://www.pplir.org)if you hae IFR aspirations (whether IMCR or IR).

[Whirlybird]

I'll bet my next weeks wages that those who don't join for whatever reason will wish they had done if the ever find themselves down at CAA towers facing an investigation into an airspace infringement or other misdemeanour.

That's why I joined, and remain a member. The mag's good, but I really have too many aviation mags anyway. And it's possible that the legal stuff may not be all it's cracked up to be. But if I ever get investigated by the CAA, and am wondering what to do, it'll be good to know where to start, and to have someone on my side. That's worth the subscription to me. :ok:

[Fuji Abound]

But if I ever get investigated by the CAA,

The trouble is when ever I ask anyone this question invariably that is what they say but .. .. ..

should AOPA only be there for the unpleasant things in life?



Bose

Come on now I have just looked again and the web site is telling me the latest news is 20th February - something newsworthy must have happened since then .. .. ..

and wishing to be constructive even with the most complex web design it is not rocket science to have a bod in a remote office up dating the news page - in fact I will even volunteer!

Actually, I would like to re-join AOPA, I just cant finding anything tangible to justify doing so .. .. ..

and so far as the CAA is concerned AOPA should just come up with an insurance policy pilots can sign up too which provides them with cover against CAA action - it happens in many other professional arenas - is likely to be very cheap, and AOPA can then wash their hands of getting involved with something they should not. Moreover if they play their cards right with FSA they migt even earn a "commission" out of it for themselves.

[tiggermoth]

I'm in a picky mood tonight, bad day and all that. They have spelt "Aviation Resources" as "Aviation Resourses" on their menu.

http://www.aopa.co.uk/about/about.html

Having said that I feel that I should really join them, in the same way as I joined CAMRA for representing me in drinking quality real ale...

[robin]

>>>Come on now I have just looked again and the web site is telling me the latest news is 20th February - something newsworthy must have happened since then .. .. ..<<<

Good point. I understand that the group dealing with the web-presence is a volunteer organisation and so delays are inevitable. However, even the PFA with its limited resources has a regularly updated presence.

For fees in excess of those of the PFA, I would have thought AOPA would want to come across as a professional organisation, with all that entails.

I have mixed feelings about AOPA. I want to be positive about them and encourage others to join, but I can't really find any 'killer' reason why they should.

If there is one group that I would say punch above their weight, it is the BGA - again, another small, almost volunteer, force. Yet they are fighting their corner brilliantly. And they are reaping the benefits