EGLL Holding Points

[sickBocks]

...okay I get OSTER and HORKA and maybe even LOKKI if it's short for Lockheed, and all the planets/space-related points. Where do ETTIV and MORRA come from? I know I should get out more but I do spend quite a lot of time remote holding in these places these days.

Answers on a postcard

sB :8

[ATCO Two]

I believe ETTIV and MORRA alude to the Scottish names of the daughters of a senior BAA Manager.

[BobAgg]

Etive and Morar are a couple of Lochs up here in Scotland

[ThreadBaron]

Etive Moor in the Western highlands:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/threadbaron/278etive.jpg

Not too many dark secrets involved.

[spekesoftly]

So no connection with Sod'em and G'MORRA ? :E

[Gonzo]

LOKKI = Loch Lochy,

[Del Prado]

Etive mor wikipedia link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buachaille_Etive_Mor)

[Thunderbug]

So why have we got scottish lochs at Heathrow?
Lets send LOKKI & ETTIV to EGPH and get some local names.
How about STANZ, EDWAD, WRSBY - Staines, King Edward VI & Wraysbury lochs, i mean reservoirs!
B***** Scots trying to take over the planet!
T'bug :ok:

[BOAC]

They'll be for the new Lomond1 SID at LHR.

[NeoDude]

Seems like a good excuse to pimp some of my photography...
http://neodude.smugmug.com/photos/142906598-M-2.jpg
More can be seen on My Website (http://www.flowinglight.com/). Very reasonable prices on prints btw :ok:

[sickBocks]

Ta for clearing that up.
Agree with Thunderbug.. can we have ANSLA, FELTM, and HESTN instead.
American 171 "Gee where the hell is LOBSTER, it isn't on our chart"

[evenflow]

MORRA never gets used. ETTIV often gets read back as ACTIVE. OSTER mostly gets read back as OSCAR. Great idea whoever thought of them!!

[Max Angle]

Great idea whoever thought of them!!Particularly as 5 letter designators are supposed to be reserved for airborne use only under ICAO regulations. Hopeless.

[FlightDetent]

What's HORKA then? :uhoh: beyond my ken.

[spekesoftly]

Never heard of an ORKA UNTER ? ;)

[tired]

Slight thread creep, I know, but who named the points on the Medwy P-RNAV procedures for 27L and R, then??? I take it he's not a Man U fan....?! ;)

[Spitoon]

MORRA never gets used. ETTIV often gets read back as ACTIVE. OSTER mostly gets read back as OSCAR. Great idea whoever thought of them!!I thought it was a bit daft naming holding points after things that aircraft are called (however unlikely it is to see an UNTER at LL). Who was it who said "If something can go wrong, it will go wrong"? Never thought of confusion between ETTIV and active. Hope I'm not around when someone thinks they hear "cross active".

Bleedin' stupid! :ugh:

[Gonzo]

Spitoon,

Welcome to Heathrow!:ugh:

Even now, years after their introduction we still get crews mistakenly reading back 'Active' and 'Echo' for ETTIV: 'Oscar', 'Ulster' and others instead of OSTER. Up until recently we had ROKIT as a 27R hold and LOKKI as a 27L hold, which used to get mixed up quite a few times an hour.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Aaahhh.. come back the days of Block 87, Block 79, Block 81....

[2miles600feet]

Slight thread creep, I know, but who named the points on the Medwy P-RNAV procedures for 27L and R, then??? I take it he's not a Man U fan....?!
BEKUM may well be a PILOK, but this point in fact relates to something that goes with your eggs for breakfast. SOSIG and TOMTO are other breakfast related waypoints. They are so named because it was recognised from the outset that the only realistic opportunity to fly over these points is in the very early morning.

[Spitoon]

It's great to be able to enjoy a sense of humour with work. But, having just been hammered on an audit of the Safety Management System, it's not a good idea to be able to laugh because someone misheard something!
IfEven now, years after their introduction we still get crews mistakenly reading back 'Active' and 'Echo' for ETTIVwhy hasn't it been changed?
I know anyone can make an off-the-wall mistake from time to time but if it happens regularly why isn't this picked up and the name reconsidered? (My those auditors would be proud of me!)


P.S. The pix are lovely though.

[Gonzo]

Various answers:

"It's not a problem"
"They'll get used to it"
"So?....just correct them"
"Even if we wanted to change them, the airport authority wouldn't spend the money to change the signs, so why bother?"

[tired]

Thanks for the explanation, 2miles. I always thought it was spelt with an "a" and an "n" but I'm only a pilot, what do I know? ;) :)

BTW, how do you eat your PILOKs - on toast, with salt and pepper, or on their own with ketchup or brown sauce?