Tiger Moth World??????????

[YesTAM]

I'm starting to get a little irritated by this outfit, does anyone else feel this way?

I've been spending Easter on my Yacht at beautiful Queenscliffe. Every day we get a visit from Tigermoth world, yesterday even towing a sign advertising their flights.

Trouble is that for the life of me I don't think they are maintaining 500 feet.

And to top it off, last night we had three young guys killed on the causeway to the island, woke for a pee at 3.00am and police lights everywhere.

So this morning, the first news helicopter showed at about 7.30 am. By 9.30 we had about four, as well as the police heli, presumably with the coroner on board.

So at about 10.30 what do we have? Thats right - TGW flying overhead the accident site, below news choppers and blowing smoke to drum up "trade". This is not only tasteless, its bloody unsafe, just like the powered paragliders from Barwon Heads.

I rate this outfit as just below jet skis in its nuisance value.

P.S. I get overflown by the Tigers from Point Cook most weekends and they seem a lot higher than these TGW guys.

[YPJT]

So yesTAM what is it that really bothers you?
Trouble is that for the life of me I don't think they are maintaining 500 feet.
or
I rate this outfit as just below jet skis in its nuisance value.
If you believe you have a valid complaint based on real concerns for aviation safety, you could always address these complaints to CASA.
if however it is just their presence that annoys you, why not up anchor and sail off elsewhere.
As for those annoying police lights. Funny but you get that when people are killed or another emergency situation occurs.

[VH-XXX]

YPJT, you just beat me to it! I'm also wondering what the point of the post is... I was at Torquay last weekend and whilst they did zoom up the beach practically on every flight they appeared to be operating 100% legally from where my trained eye was looking. I even spoke to the pilot at one stage on the ground and when I departed behind him he appeared to be at legal height etc.

I also feel sorry for you if you were offended by the operation of a helicopter or two in the morning.

I suspect it was probably a matter of poor timing by the pilot as he may not have known that somone lost their lives on the ground some 40+ kms away from his airfield only hours before.

Is there anything else that I can apologise for?

[WilliamOK]

So at about 10.30 what do we have? Thats right - TGW flying overhead the accident site, below news choppers and blowing smoke to drum up "trade". This is not only tasteless, its bloody unsafe, just like the powered paragliders from Barwon Heads.

uuuhhh I think this is what is getting yesTAM's goat......... :confused::confused::confused:

Perhaps a careful read of the post is in order?

[takeonme]

True. I dont think YesTAM is complaining about the choppers at all.

[YPJT]

William,
I think what is really getting up yesTAMs goat is:
Tiger Moths,
Jetskis
Police lights at 3:00am
Helicopters
and powered paragliders from Barwon Heads.

Thank god yesTAM didn't decide to anchor in Botany Bay for the weekend.

[the wizard of auz]

If you don't like it.........Move to somewhere they aint. you sound like one of those winging old ladies that don't like anyone having fun. unless your in the aircraft, you have no idea what height they are at....... and guessing just doesn't count. do you know if they have any dispensations?..... didn't think so :hmm:
Mate, you need to eat a cement sandwich........ and harden up and get over it.

[scrambler]

as well as the police heli, presumably with the coroner on board

Could have been looking for the body still missing, maybe with search and rescue police/equipment on board. I would have thought that transport for the coroner wasn't the highest priority for polair.

[VH-XXX]

One of the most frequent passengers is the VicPol photographer. They will sit there for quite a while depending on the situation taking snaps from all angles or as scrambler says, searching for clues / bodies etc. Would be surprised if the coroner was on board. They normally arrive in the unmarked wagon complete with aluminium suitcases and tinted windows.

I can't see that the news choppers have any more rights to be there than the TigerMoth and vice-versa. In all honesty and crudeness, what's happening on the ground is irrelevant.

Move on and get over it!

That being said, it's quite a tragedy and unfortunate that they didn't get out of the car as it appeared to be only in about 6ft of water.

[YesTAM]

Thank you for your comments. Rest assured that if I see what I thought I saw again I WILL report to CASA, and No, I'm not moving, because Queenscliffe is the only safe harbour in this part of the Bay.

For the record, and based on various discussions on Pprune over the years, I've decided that the entire region between Torquay and Point Lonsdale is off limits when I'm flying because of what I will term "aerial pollution".

This consists of errant skydivers (apparently jumping through cloud) and various trikes which seem to operate without rhyme or reason. I skirt the CTAF on the occasional scenic. I'm simply asking if others believe that Tiger Moth World is part of this phenomenon. Do they have radios by the way?

P.S. Yes, it is a tragedy, and it was less than six feet of water. More I will not say.

[transonic dragon]

I love curmudgeons like YesTAM! Nothing like pathos with my morning coffee to make me feel alive. I'd love to hear YesTAM's opinion on:-

obese children
labor vs. liberal
teenagers driving fast cars
Dick Smith
QF takeover
foreign people in call centres
skydivers (again!)
how it was "back in the day" when youngsters respected their elders

PS The Grumpy Old Women show is touring your way soon.

[YesTAM]

I thought Curmudgeons were a protected species on the verge of extinction.

P.S. Children respecting their elders?????

I may be old, but not THAT old!

[WilliamOK]

I love curmudgeons like YesTAM! Nothing like pathos with my morning coffee to make me feel alive. I'd love to hear YesTAM's opinion on:-\

Dick Smith

Whatever happened to that Aussie made peanut butter thing he had going on? I haven't seen it in the supermarket for a while.........:confused:

[Peter Fanelli]

I'd go to beautifull Queenscliffe for a holiday but I hear that there's just too many damn boats out there spoiling the damn view.

There oughtta be some control over those boats, getting in the way of my view all the time.

:{

[YPJT]

which begs the question of why did we have to be informed in the first place that he was on his yacht?

A touch of pretentiousness perhaps?

[VH-XXX]

Dick was far away from TigerMoth world on the weekend! He chose to spend the weekend with his ultralight mates at Narromine flying in in his new Citation with 2 POB.

Admittedly I was jealous as it departed at a bizillion rate of knots with a climb rate that would put the Challenger rocket to shame...

http://users.netconnect.com.au/~njah1/dick1.jpg

[YesTAM]

YPJT, to put my question into language a Sandgroper can understand "Why the **** is this thing buzzing over the harbor each day at what appears to be well below 500 ft?".

[inthefluffystuff]

YesTam
Powered paragliders from Barwon Heads, you must have great eye sight at 66 as I have seen them too but must have missed the signs saying "I am from Barwon Heads" but hey what is the problem do they have to fly in a special space or what?

Just noticed below my response Tiger Flight 25 km from Melbourne is that just a coincidence?

[YesTAM]

Fluffy, I have nothing against Tigers, or trikes, or joyflights. There are two trikes that appear to fly together sometimes and I'm fairly sure they are the two I've seen at Barwon Heads. I'm not sure if they are running a joy flight operation or not.

My initial comment is based on my observation that the Tigers seem to be flying a little lower compared to the Tigers I regularly see flying out of YPCK and around Williamstown.

On Sunday morning you could easily hear the flapping of the Tiger Moth World banner this guy was towing.

If you read other postings around Pprune, you will note that the activities of skydiving operators out of Barwon Heads and elsewhere in the vicinity of been the subject of much discussion:(, hence my comment that I give the whole area a wide berth.

[inthefluffystuff]

YesTAM

Yes am aware that skydivers used to jump out of Barwon Heads Airport but that is a thing of the past I think, no jumpers for about 2 years down that way. Some may still do it at Torqair but am not sure (they never gave any problems or headaches to pilots in the area.)

The jumpers at RJL Aviation at Ceres way do a good job with no hassles that way either (looks as though Tigers of Torquay may be a bit of a problem.)
the last statement is based on your observation?

The powered hang gliders are around as you say but they seem to run a good operation have not heard a bad word about them. (except for your comment)

[YesTAM]

I haven't heard any bad word about the powered hang gliders..........in fact I haven't heard anything because I don't even know if they have radios....and thats what bothers me.....I don't wish to fly into that strip and find out the hard way whether they are using radios and how professional or unprofessional they are.

Now Tyabb on the other hand, is a different kettle of fish.

[scrambler]

I don't wish to fly into that strip and find out the hard way whether they are using radios and how professional or unprofessional they are

What does having a radio have to do with being professional?

[YesTAM]

Get in a circuit with a radioless aircraft and find out.

Unalerted "see and avoid" is not a very good way of maintaining separation.

[VH-XXX]

Pilots have been flying for years without radios and still continue to do so... Safely!

If you can't see and avoid, you should visit your DAME and get your eyes checked.

If you fail the eye test, buy an ultralight without a radio and fly from Barwon Heads.

[YesTAM]

Priceless!!!!!!! Thank you.

[777WakeTurbz]

YesTAM

Hard to tell if they have radios mate, a while back they put 2 TigerMoths head on into each other using opposite runway directions... :hmm::}

Andim not not surprised to hear that they would be operating below 500 feet, during Skandia week around the Geelong Marina they would've been lucky to have been above 300 feet at times... :ugh:

Probably just forgot to set his altimeter on the ground... :cool:

Turbz :cool:

[inthefluffystuff]

YesTAM
Have asked a few people I know down that way and yes ALL a/c from b.h. use and have radios, if not possible I have heard that hand helds are used.
Notice the negative and always the other comment comes out of this forum.

Wake

I am not surprised about a few head ons that way.

[John Walters]

XXX--your way off beat once again. If you flew or knew anything about the BH operation, the owner requires ALL operating from her airfield to have radios and that includes ultralights and trikes, and if you listened on the CTAF you would be aware of that instead of making wild and unfounded accusations.

The only operator from Torquay who uses the radio appears to be the jump plane, but thats about the only thing normal from all reports.

It was reported that on Saturday 24th February at approximately 2.30 the jump plane was seen on final for 36 with a 15-20 knot tail wind as the yellow agcat was taking off on 18. They crossed over with golf course with about 100 foot separation.

BH have got rid of there problems and the cowboys are now at Torquay. You only have to sit on the Torquay front beach to see how low the lance, agcat and lakes can go, even witnessed the lance flying under two trikes some time back.

YesTAM --you made comments about trikes from BH and joy flights. If you check as I did they cannot and do not offer joy flights and only instructors can take tifs but the guys at BH are quite happy to take a passanger from time to time. You might like to check this out some time and enjoy some real basic flying instead of locking yourself in a tinny at 5000 feet plus.

[VH-XXX]

I was making some light hearted humour about flying without a radio. Sorry if I offended your hiness Sir Walters.

Every time I have been to Torquay recently, all aircraft have been using radios, including the Lakes.

As for the other "near misses," normal stuff. It happens everywhere else at times.

Trikes are different to RA-Aus. You only need 100 hours as a pilot to take paying passengers on a TIF so it's TIF's (joy flights) a plenty in the trike world under HGFA.

[inthefluffystuff]

XXX

Your are an agressive little person XXX try to work in with other versions of flight without all the muck throwing, at least Mr. Walters uses his own name not like me and you so give him a go mate (very loosely used that word) and near misses happen everywhere? sure glad that we do not fly around your area then.

[VH-XXX]

Agressive or not my post is 100% valid.

It's disappointing as most of these "reports" appear to be third hand.

You missed my point about the near misses, I said that they happen everywhere else "AT TIMES."

I've flown frequently into all said locations and I am also entitled to make my own observations which I have done. Busy airfields with mixing traffic are exactly that, very busy, with different aircraft types mixing at vastly different speeds. I am not surprised a Lance flew "under" some Trikes - he's hardly going to follow them!

I don't care about using my real name. Those in the know, know who I am.

[John Walters]

XXX -- "I am not surprised that a Lance flew under some Trikes", well you should be surprised when the reports were that the trikes normally fly at 400 feet over the water, to keep below the normal traffic around the coast as they are a lot slower and believe that safety for all is the most important factor and they fly at a safe height so they won't get run over by coastal traffic and in particular by the operators from Torquay or so they thought.

When the lance rounded Point Danger he was well under the trikes at no more than 300 feet. Is that legal and safe flying with passengers on board?

I guess not, but we are from Torquay where it appears anything goes. If you don't hear us, make sure you have bloody good eye sight cause we may appear in your windshield when you don't expect it.

And as "for near misses- normal stuff", I wouldn't have thought that using a runway from opposite ends was normal stuff, one landing, one taking off over the top of the landing plane was normal stuff, but then I was reminded at Torquay it was normal, remember the two tiger moths landing in the dark from opposite ends a couple of years back and one was written off. No wonder your not welcome at Torquay the normal pilot wants to follow normal operational procedures for safety but you never know at this airfield.

[inthefluffystuff]

XXX
Jeez got a little lost gave a reply for you on Barwon Heads being sold, boy sure did get a little lost. Mr. Walters you could not have voiced the situation better about the old "Torquay" airfield being a bit ad hock on landing situations where you may get an A/C comming both ways to land (saves time you know but me tinks it may save $1 or two and that may be a good reason in some lost souls mind) and shame on you XXX to suggest that carrying paying passengers would be subjected to going that close to trikes and thinking it is OK.
There was another head on landing between a Cherokee 6 and a tiger a few years back, that was a lucky one too.
A friend of mine flys down that way and says it has been fantastic without the worry of chutes dropping in and around you out of the blue or is that the grey? But when Mr. Hawke gets it going again who knows hope it is managed.

[John Walters]

I have spoken to a couple of the trike pilots at BH definately no joy flights, paid if thats what you mean, however they are happy to take interested persons for a flight if they want. It is definately a different form of flying from the tinnies and a most enjoyable experience.

[inthefluffystuff]

YesTam

Once again the offer to come dine on a Saturday night with us and then make up your mind? I gave the invitation on your other post as well. Absolutely no sky diving in BH area so flying in would be OK. Oh yes make sure you give radio calls as trikes will hear as well.

[inthefluffystuff]

YesTam
Heard he talks the talk but will not walk the walk!!!!

[the wizard of auz]

Gee POL, what ever happened to your other user names?. :} :eek:

[YesTAM]

Sorry fluffy, I am otherwise engaged this Saturday. I will watch for tigers though.

[inthefluffystuff]

YesTam

AAHHH Well I tried!!

[Al E. Vator]

This grumpy old man reminds me of that ex-TAA and then QF pratt who bought a property just near Coldstream Airport near Melbourne then complained about the aircraft noise.

Made all his money from aviation then tried to complain abut aircraft!

[YesTAM]

Yator, Let me put it in words of one or two syllables for you. I will be at Queenscliife Cruising Yacht Club this weekend. If I see a tiger or any other airborne vehicle at what I believe to be less than 500 feet, I will report you to CASA, that is a promise. I will enourage others to do the same, including two other pilots plus at least one former policeperson, who have infiinitely more experience than I do, and carry more weight than I do.

I have nothing against Tigers, having just shelled out considerable $$$ for some birthday flights up Point Cook way, but I cannot and will not abide fu^&ing cowboys who not only scare the hell out of my potential passengers, but bring the entire profession into disrepute.

You wanna play games and see if I mean it? Make my day.

The rules are there for a reason, you want to screw with the rules go somewhere else.

As for Fluffy, yes i've been to Barwon Heads - once, and its up to you to prove that you are safe, because I'll be f&*cked if I am going to scare the living sh&t out of me or my passenger on your say so.

I am an old pilot, certainly not a bold pilot, and I don't go places where there is a bad reputation - which includes Barwon Heads, Torquay, Apollo Bay and suchlike. Don't you understand that you are off limits to lots of people? I don't give a flying F6ck about the legalities that some of you talk about. The mere fact that you are talking about "jumping through cloud" "carrying radios', let alone Tigers going head to head, lances underneath trikes, tells me all I need to know - unprofessional cowboys. justify it as you will. YOU ARE A NO GO AREA, AND WILL REMAIN SO UNTIL YOU DEMONSTRATE ADHERENCE TO PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS - i'M NOT HOLDING MY BREATHE.

[inthefluffystuff]

Oh yestam me tinks you should keep playing in your yacht, you sound like a very old pilot if things in the real world seem a bit scary at times. You see all this sh*t you describe is a bit too much to be really true and I tink you have no fu**in* idea of what happens at BH but your little ego trip wiil be in your mind only so come see for yourself oh I forgot you are judge and jury.

Sky diving has not been happening for a couple of years at BH (dropping there that is) so point 1 of your story shot down, trikes all use radio so point 2 shot down, a low flying trike is known around the traps but not originating from BH so point 3 shot down, a/c from the other side of the bay visit this area you know so get onto there case as it is a good chance they are the ones you see.

Tigers low ,if you know them then why so late in reporting? oh I forgot you are now a liitle peeved so you will give em a 225 if your 500ft. judgement is any good. We do not need to prove anything this way as you would know if you care to contact CASA you will see a bloody lot of reports about certain bad airmanship from visitors like you who leave the confines of regulated fields and think you can do what you like at small dromes, well son we do not need you here under your present mind but if you get a fit of saneness come on down the offer still stands and believe it or not you will be welcomed. (rant over)

[Rocket Rob]

The Wizard of Auz

AAHHH you think someone on these post are POL guess you are mistaken I know em all. You better ask Alli**n

[Rocket Rob]

:= Fluffy
Naughty boy you Fluffed on the Tam how could you, read posts do not blame you. := :D :ok:

[thunderbird five]

Business as usual it seems:eek:
(wait for it)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3viIkyu4sso

[FoolCorsePich]

Thats not their AgCat but it is their airstrip. Dont jump to conclusions.

[thunderbird five]

No conclusions - Check the CASA register.

[Aussie Bob]

So your problem is???

[mikedreamer787]

Why is the OP complaining about DH82s? Next to Merlins the Gypsy has a sweet sound.

If the old codger shelled out a few bucks and went for a fly in one he'd be a tad less bitchy about them. :)

He says he's an old pilot but what old pilot rubbishes a few guys having fun in a Moth?

[FoolCorsePich]

No conclusions - Check the CASA register.

That's funny.

You realise FBA's registered operator 'TIGER MOTH PTY LTD' has nothing to do with Tiger Moth World right? You're drawing a conclusion from a coincidence.

[Lumps]

I'm with Bob

[Sunfish]

Why is the OP complaining about DH82s? Next to Merlins the Gypsy has a sweet sound.

If the old codger shelled out a few bucks and went for a fly in one he'd be a tad less bitchy about them.

He says he's an old pilot but what old pilot rubbishes a few guys having fun in a Moth?

Love Tigers. My point was the way the aircraft appeared to be being used by its operator. I have the same problem with some operators of 4WD's despite owning Three myself. Just don't get me started on jet skis and trail bikes:E