Manually flying airliners

[Mungo Man]

I'm new to flying jets and so far when I'm flying I can't wait to get the autopilot on since it eases workload so drastically. It got me thinking what are other airline SOPs and what to what extent do other proffessional pilots hand fly their aircraft?

I don't imagine many people hand fly their aircraft 'raw data' much after take off, but perhaps they do fly manually with the flight director on. In my company raw data flight is discouraged except for visual approaches. I tend to engage the autopilot at about 1500ft after departure and disengage it at about 600ft on the ILS. On one occasion when it was quiet I followed the flight director up to FL100 but only once so far. So what do others do?

[411A]

Except where an automatic approach/land is anticipated, I normally hand fly from FL100, on down.

Takeoffs?
Always hand fly until at least FL150.

Raw data?
Every once in awhile.

And yes, this includes busy TMA's as well.
My First Officers?
Strangely enough, they do the same, normally.

[wileydog3]

It is just another airplane whether jet or not. You will not develop the skills required to hand fly if you are always on autopilot. Yes, it does reduce workload but what happens when your autopilot is on the MEL and you have to hand fly it. Well, if your skills are in place, no big deal. You just trim it up manually instead of letting the autopilot do ALL the work.

Second, there has long been an argument between efficiency (bean counters and check airmen) who want everything flown on autopilot and line-swine (like me) who actually enjoy flying the airplane. I find that if I don't hand fly and don't occasionally fly raw data, my scan atrophies and my skills become less polished

Many will hand fly on takeoff up through FL180 and do some hand flying on the descent. In heavy traffic when landing, you may want to use the autopilot to allow you more scanning time outside. Safety...

As for SOPs, many operators *recommend* that the systems be used most of the time but that is a recommendation often and not a requirement.

Times have changed. When I was talking to some Concorde pilots a few years ago some of the early Concorde 'commanders' hand flew the entire leg to/from Heathrow to JFK... and I flew with guys at the airline that if you put the autopilot ON, they would click it off and they would fly..

Fly the airplane.. learn.. experience. There is nothing the autopilot is going to teach you.

[Piltdown Man]

I wish I could (at times)! Raw data - not allowed (except when visual and backed up with FPV). When IMC, FD must be on. Autoland recommended when vis. and/or cloudbase below rather high limits (I won't tell you what they are because you'll laugh). A/P should be on above FL100. However, I don't have too much of a problem with this as: 1. This pays my mortage. 2. It's safe. 3. I still have enough fun with our rules and 4. Given the restrictions and the manner of their enforcement, I don't feel my manual skills are being eroded. The A/P is an amazing tool at reducing workload (and allowing you to drink tea and eat) and I use it as such. Typically, A/P on from 50' up to FL100 and off somewhere down the approach.

PM

[wileydog3]

In the US, at 'my house', we were required to use AP for any non-precision approach where wx was below 1000 and 3. Makes sense as normally for a major carrier pilot in the US, about the ONLY time they do real non-precisions is in the sim. The workload is higher for a NP and thus the AP is a good tool for lowering workload.

As for manual skills erosion, I guess that is an individual perception.

AP on from 50ft to 10,000ft? ?? Do you then disconnect and hand fly and if so, why? As I remember, it was *recommended* on the Bus to select autoflight at 50ft and lots of our guys did it on the -80 when we had them.

But for a new guy, I would recommend that he fly the airplane. And maybe a sure sign I am becoming a dinosaur but if the only thing one does is push buttons, where are the flying skills? (not to be confused with the decision making, problem solving skills, etc)

[Piltdown Man]

A/P selected ON between 50' and FL100. And remaining on above that!

[Mungo Man]

Interesting replies - thanks people. For the record so far I have hand flown it up to FL200 and down from about 5000ft for a visual approch. I enjoy flying it but I don't think I'll make a habit if doing so. Personally I don't think flying it in the climb or descent is really going to do much for flying skills when compared to the demands of hand flying a gusty turbulent approach which we have to do anyway because we don't have autoland!

Another point worth making is that short haul and long haul pilots probably have very different views on this becuase of the vastly different number of sectors flown in a given period. If you are only handling a few times a month surely you'd try and hand fly, but a short haul driver doing 6 sectors a day gets lots of short oppourtunites to hand fly.

I just read in a popular GA magazine this month an article about the possibility of a PPL being able to land an airliner (Lets not go down that path here) - the author said that a PPL would almost immediately stall or break up in the cruise if the autopilot failed and to that end he always hand flew the last 10 mins of cruise to keep current - I assume he wasn't in RVSM airspace!

[Intruder]

You should make a "habit" of flying manually to make sure you can still do it when you HAVE TO!

Granted, there is little gained trying to fight the controls and turbulence in cruise, especially since it is also illegal to do so in RVSM airspace where many of us spend most of our hours. However, getting and retaining the feel for the airplane will save your butt when the autopilot switch fails in the OFF position some day...

I got lazy for a while in the 744, but then decided it was too boring watching the airplane do all the fun work. I'm glad I did, because it made the transition to the 747 Classic MUCH easier!

[GlueBall]

Hand fly up to 5000' and down from 10,000' [AGL]. . . to stay sharp and smooth on the controls, and to have something challenging to do, especially when the weather's bad. Actually, my overall handling performance is much more precise in IMC than in VMC. :ooh:

[TheGorrilla]

If I've got a dead straight line to follow I'll stick the autopilot in earlier than if there's an interesting SID to follow. At tother end it depends on the conditions. Always depends on workload of the crew as a whole.

[tom775257]

Hi,
I think I am very lucky to work for an airline that considers training above saving a few kg's fuel. Hand flying is fine, generally I will hand fly until the SID gets boring. Similar on approach. On approach recently I was asked by the training captain to fly a raw data / all autos off approach A320. So I flew from 20,000ft down to landing raw data, autopilot/thrust off. It has to be good for you as a pilot. (With the proviso that flying into a busy airport / congested airspace dictates maximum use of autos).
I think the Airbus set-up tends to remove speed from your scan especially when flying managed speed / autothrust on approaches, so practice is surely necessary.
Tom.

[Julian Hensey]

This has always interested me. I know the Swiss use their roads for military aircraft landing, but it always made me think, if an airliner had to land on a huge open road for whatever reason, would pilots today be able to do see with seat of pants flying.... or are they fixated on instruments....

[tom775257]

<<would pilots today be able to do see with seat of pants flying.... or are they fixated on instruments.>>
Of course - how do you think we do a visual approach. Every landing is also visual - judging the flare etc (apart from autoland in poor vis etc.)

[Julian Hensey]

But are you not still relying on things like PAPI's, runway markings etc....? :rolleyes: I wonder what it would be like to put down on plain tarmac with no lights or helpful markings.....

[tom775257]

You should try landing in Africa!

Still we have the radio altimeter that helps with height awareness even with crap lighting / markings. We land it in the sim with dual radio altimeter failure in the Airbus (mainly because multiple systems rely on inputs from the radalts) and we don't have a problem.

Honestly I think it would be fine!

[TopBunk]

I wonder what it would be like to put down on plain tarmac with no lights or helpful markings.....

sounds like a normal approach to JFK 31R about a year ago:rolleyes::eek::hmm:

[JJflyer]

Ok... Depending on workload (How the guy in the rgt seat performs and have I flown with her/him beore), weather, how busy the airport is and how tired I was.
I will handfly sometimes up to high 20's. In the older types I flew I would sometimes not use the FD and fly raw data and turn the FD on only when engaging the Autopilot. Occasionally I would handfly down from Top of D to landing with or with the FD.
One will reap the benefits with greatly improved handling skills and instrument scan when it really is needed. Regardless if it is you or your crewmember or the AP flying the aircraft, one can feel the difference. Dont forget that one will fly the simulator much better as well.

Landing an aircraft without any callouts and no visual approach aids is a nonevent. One will get used to it and it is the same way to fly as the old Piper or Cessna was. Look at the end of the rwy.

[Pilot Pete]

Agree with jjflyer. It's a CRM thing, which some seem to have missed.:rolleyes: It is as inappropriate to fly ALL departures/ arrivals without automatics as it is to ALWAYS use them. It is easy for the PF, but it is the PM's workload that has to be considered to ensure they have enough capacity left to really monitor you as PF properly when you are hand-flying, even more so if completely raw data.
One point to remember, which I often point out to my newer colleagues is that the A/Ps not working is NOT a no-goer, so that day would not be the best time to try hand flying for the first time!

PP

p.s. Nothing to stop the automatics being put back in if the workload goes up too much. Again, good CRM means you should still have the capacity to spot this even when you are raw data.

[TheGorrilla]

It's a worry. People talk about losing their hand flying skills through lack of practice. Give them 6 months off and the same pilot will boast about how quickly it all came flooding back. I think given enough experience we can all hack it..... Unless we never had it in the first place!!! :}

[hikoushi]

Out here in my little world a typical day is 8 sectors averaging :30-45 each (in the Dash-8). FD generally stays on during all phases of flight except a visual approach, where it's use is discretionary; autopilot is at the crew's discretion. 85% of the time the weather is good, so we do a lot of "eyeballed" visual approaches. The rest is an even split of precision and nonprecision approaches.

Personally, I usually hand-fly the first leg from T.O. to cruise to get the feel for the airplane; the rest of the day usually I'll click the A/P on after getting trimmed for the climb, click it off to hand fly the leveloff and retrim, then turn it on again. I try to fly at least one leg a day from top of descent down to landing, also. To stay in practice for bad days I usually follow the IAP in VFR conditions raw-data (as part of the visual approach) when it doesn't require going out of the way to do so. We have a couple of :15-20 minute legs, and we often hand-fly the whole thing just for fun when weather is good and traffic is light (most of the time). This is all of course based on workload, traffic, how awake I am on a given day:zzz:, who I'm flying with, etc.

Just my personal preference within the (broad) limits of our SOP's, but I find the practice makes sim sessions and A/P MEL'd days much more relaxing.

[A Very Civil Pilot]

Mungo
looking at the posts the 'pro' hand-fliers seem to be mostly outside the UK, whilst the 'auto' fliers seem to be UK based. I think that is a reflection of the density of traffic n the UK, and the need to distribute the workload in a busy environment.
and I flew with guys at the airline that if you put the autopilot ON, they would click it off and they would fly..
Glad to see that CRM has moved on a bit since then!

[Mungo Man]

For an update, now I'm a bit more settled and happier with the jet, I often hand fly up to the mid twenties, and down from about 10,000ft, with as many fight director off visual approaches as conditions permit. All good fun but at the same time its good making full use of the automatics at places like LHR.

[john_tullamarine]

.. maybe horses for courses .. it's a bit silly to load oneself up by optional handflying when in a high workload or traffic density situation (or when tired or in bad weather) .. better to have 2 (or 3 if you're lucky) heads unloaded to think about the bigger picture and keep well and truly ahead of the aircraft and the action ...

However, at the other end of things, in suitable conditions and providing that SOPs permit, raw data hand flown is the easiest way to keep the scan rate up and cognitive workload assigned to the flying bit down ..

Best fun we had tended to be on freighters (0-dark-30 and the nearest traffic was in the next State) .. standard short sector game was hand fly raw data for the whole sector but with no cruise .. ie straight up and straight down ..with a practice instrument letdown thrown in for good measure where suitable (one could be forgiven for spinning up earlier in this scenario) ... with several beers in the bar on the overday wagered on

(a) picking TOC/TOD correctly

(b) not having to spin up until an appropriate point on mid final (or per letdown SOPs) and one needed not to have a requirement to use the PECL at all ....

Next best fun was maintaining cruise until the closest point approaching the destination with an overfly and opposite direction ILS/visual approach (typically coming from the south to SYD) .. I recall one night on the Electra (empty) maintaining 30k (if I recall correctly that was the maximum level) until overhead SYD .. the poor controller was beside himself .. if he asked once, he asked us 20 times if we were ready for descent ... ended up having to take power at 2000 ft on final .. cost me a fortune in beers at the pub ...

Seriously, though, it is all about sensible and proactive management of the operation .. one always plans to keep a large margin of spare cognitive and physical capacity so that one never lets oneself get caught out by the dreaded gremlins ... ie always keep well ahead of the aircraft.

.. and, with the above scenarios ... if the other guys saw it turning to custard they would call it .. there was never any intention to go outside normal limits and parameters .. and if it needed to be done on the rare occasion, we were never too proud to admit we had misjudged it and take the miss for the circuit .. however, the flight path monitoring skills were honed and the benefits showed on routine ATC track shortening descents where those who practised the exercises were far better prepared to pick a descent going awry in routine circumstances and recover the situation to minimise lost time ..

[cheesycol]

On most days: Hand fly to at least FL100 and autopilot is usually out by 3000ft on the approach, will usually take it out earlier tho. There are exceptions however, eg, simultaneous parallel approaches in busy airspace & marginal wx.