Turbulence & seat belts?

[richlear]

Hi all,

Not sure if this is the correct place for a question like this - I normally hang out on the military thread but hope someone will answer anyway.

I normally fly AF LAX-CDG-LAX around once a month and have had good experiences (apart from the inevitable lost baggage). Last week I flew NWA from LAX-HNL-LAX and was surprised that for the majority of the flight the seatbelt sign was on and there were repeated announcements from the flight deck about turbulence. Despite this, there was nothing I would consider more than mild chop (no expert here, a couple of thousand hours in the back of a Nimrod getting bounced around for hours)

Anyway - to the point....are there different rules for US domestic carriers than European carriers?

Thanks

Rich

[parabellum]

It is a cultural thing - in the USA people can and do sue for anything, the case is heard by a jury and often fat payouts are awarded.
If someone is injured, even only slightly, the crew could be faced with accusations of neglecting their duty of care etc. These kind of cases in turn lead to bad publicity for the airline and the possibility pax will vote with their feet and choose a competitior next time. American carriers generally are far more concerned about the possible legal repercussions of any turbulence than many of the other major carriers.
Not sure if the FAA have rules about it that other countries don't, but it is also possible.

[bomarc]

RichLear

Northwest airlines has the best meteorology department in the business...bar none.

In fact, a special alert to pilots is issued from the company called "the turbulence plot" or simply plot.

NWA has the fewest injuries of any major airline...especially of flight attendants who can be injured in rough air.

I know of one passenger who got up to use the restroom WHILE THE SEAT BELT SIGN WAS ON...the plane hit clear air turbulence and the man broke his neck and is paralyzed. And this wasn't on NWA.

wearing the seatbelt is the smartest thing you can do as a passenger. And if air france didn't turn ON their sign...maybe that particular day, altitude etc. didn't have a possible indication of turbulence...

look carefully, and somehwere there is a statement : while seated, please wear your seatbelt.

[Nov71]

I once flew San Diego - Chicago on a US carrier and encountered bad weather, apart from 'mild judder' the flight landed safely - and the mainly US pax applauded!!
If safety is paramount why don't all civilian airlines have rear-facing pax seats?

[javelin]

Richlear - you are correct - the Septics are paranoid about turbulence and spend most of their time bleating about it on 123.45 or through HF or VHF.

We all experience bumps during a transatlantic crossing - live with it and chill out boys :E

[AltFlaps]

Also, many airlines (my own included) will occassionally turn on the seat belt sign at the request of the cabin crew to help them 'regain control on the cabin'.

[con-pilot]

Richlear - you are correct - the Septics are paranoid about turbulence and spend most of their time bleating about it on 123.45 or through HF or VHF.

We all experience bumps during a transatlantic crossing - live with it and chill out boys

Ah, a true European macho pilot. Yeah, what the heck, screw the passengers, don't worry about providing the best flight possible. Screw em, all the stupid passengers do is allow us to earn our pay check.

[richlear]

An interesting set of replies - thanks to all.

The responses reinforce my perception of the US airlines being overly concerned about pax safety, possibly not for the pax themselves but for the liability issues that may ensue.

Of course the safety limits have to apply to the lowest common demoninator which is sometimes a little frustrating others in the cabin.

As for "providing the best flight possible" - sitting for 3 hours with a bladder approaching 125 PSi is not a good experience.....

Cheers


rich

[free at last]

Simply put your are either a captain know your job, or just a driver! Seat belt sign is the most abused tool, by the flight crews. It is still an experience for most pax, and to leave the sign on for hours is not knowing you job!

[Oblaaspop]

Have to agree with free!

If you leave the belts on for hours on end for 'no apparent reason', then you run the risk of the pax loosing any respect for it (if they had any to start with), and in turn completely ignoring it all together when in fact it might be on for good reason. (not just because the lazy US FA's can't be bothered to do a hot drink service)

I think a lot of it (as far as flying around in US airspace is concerned) harps back to the post 911 attutude that if the pax are in their seats they can't harm us..................

As an aside, how rigidly did the Cabin Crew enforce the fact that the belt signs were on? Would they prevent an elderly pax or child from using the bathroom (as opposed to pissing/pooing on the seat) even though the belt signs had been on for hours in smooth air? If so did they say something like 'you are disobeying a direct order from crew and we will have the FBI meet you on arrival'?

Not only is it paranoia, it is the usual crap customer service one has come to expect from any US carrier (and they are the crappest in the world bar none - to paraphrase some one earlier).

[1DC]

Wife and I were in moderate turbulance over Afganistan earlier this week, Mrs. 1DC is a nervous flyer and got herself in a bit of a panic and started the cold sweats. The Captain came on the radio after about half an hour and advised the passengers that whilst it was uncomfortable it was ok and he hoped we would be out of it soon.That announcement was enough to reassure her and she was much better after that. The announcement was very important to her and i wish it was done more often.
We always wear our seatbelts regardless of the sign..

[Bigears]

Oblaaspop,
I feel you are a bit harsh tarring all US carriers with the same brush.
As a SLF, I am happy to report that on an transatlantic flight (whilst still over continental USA), I heard my United Airlines flight discuss re-routing with ATC (on Ch10, IFE) due to turbulence and also make an informative cabin announcement apologising for the turbulence and saying what they were doing about it.
Turbulence was very mild, but I was impressed that a different routing, costing the company money, was used to make my flight slightly more comfortable.
That flightcrew knew customer service, IMO.

[BOAC]

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=197650

There was a similar query about US carriers somewhere on PPrune in the past but I do not have the time to search for it.

[llondel]

I can predict some bouts of turbulence to within about five minutes: the aircraft always starts shaking around the time the cabin crew get the trollies out to serve food or drinks. Perhaps there's something in aircraft design that having too many tray tables in the down position causes instability? Or is that just Murphy at work? :)

I've certainly been on some aircraft where the seatbelt sign has been turned on for turbulence and then seems to have been forgotten as it's still on despite an hour of calm. I just assume that the pointy end has been receiving reports of turbulence along the flight path and choose to play safe. I always keep the belt on when seated, just in case.

[Piltdown Man]

I'll speak for myself. Take-off, landing, taxying, expecting or experiencing turbulence (I consider an "old granny" test - would let one get mine get up and go to the bathroom or would I prefer her to be seated?) or trouble on board I put the seat belt sign on and therefore expect all passengers to be seated with seat belts fastened, within a reasonable timeframe. If it is on at any other time then I appologise as I have forgotten about it. Our cabin crew would obviously prefer everybody to be seated whilst they are performing the service but they too realise that our customers have their own needs.