Prince Charles Prang in Isle of Islay - June 1995

[Warmtoast]

I've been searching the web (unsucessfully) for the report of the accident to the BAe 146 of the Royal Flight that Price Charles pranged on the Isle of Islay in June 1995.

If it's available publically online I'd be grateful for a pointer please.

TIA

Tony

[fabs]

I saw the hard copy of this report a few years ago, am sure it was RESTRICTED so you won't find it on the net. If you have access to the intraweb it might be worth searching The DASC website.

[BEagle]

It is indeed Restricted.

The date was 29 June 1994.

'twas said at the time that if HRH had stuck his head out of the window, his large ears might have assisted with the deceleration needed to cope with landing some 30 knots too fast on a short RW.....

Except that, with a 12 knot tailwind, they would have acted more like sails!

[Pontius Navigator]

But Charlie didn't prang. 'twas the Captain that pranged. :}

Anyway, Freedom of Information; you want a copy, write in and ask. Restricted is no bar to your getting a copy.

[parabellum]

And all this time I thought it was Machrihanish, which has a very long runway.:confused:

[Warmtoast]

Thanks to fabs for the advice about the DASC website. A Google search for DASC led me to their site, which in turn led me to the Military Aircraft Accident Summary (MAAS) site. The report headed "Military Aircraft Accident Summary (MAAS), Aircraft Type: RAF BAe 146 CC2 ZE700, Date: 29 June 1994, Location: Islay Airfield" is reputedly on line as the very long URL below indicates:

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/AboutDefence/CorporatePublications/AirSafetyandAviationPublications/MAAS/1990s/19940629RafBae146Cc2Ze700.htm

However clicking on the link to the accident report pdf results in a "page not found error". Other incident reports listed open normally, so is there still some sensitivity about HRH's accident I wonder?

Tony

[ZH875]

Have you tried any other of the links in the MAAS section, NONE appear to work, so it may be nothing to do with Air Chief Marshal The Prince Of Wales, more likely just another software glitch in the MOD.

[Low Flier]

The exact location on the airfield where he buried the 146 up to its oxters in the putty is still known locally as Holding Point Charlie.

[Warmtoast]

Someone in the MOD must be reading our posts! The link to the pdf now opens the relevant file.

Tony

[ZH875]

I like those people in the MOD, very nice they are.



...oooerrr what else are they reading:O

[BEagle]

Hmmm......

I seem to recall that the Captain and Navigator were both held to be grossly negligent.

No mention in this watered-down version of the inadequate performance planning, poor SOPs or CRM issues which I vaguely recall having featured significantly in the original Incident Report.....

[kokpit]

Thawes,

The link results in a 3 page pdf document "Military Aircraft Incident Summary Published By The MoD Incident To RAF BAe 146 CC2 ZE700".

Are you allowing it time to download?

[Speedbird48]

If, as Beag's says the Captain and Navigator were held to be "grossly incompetant" that doesn't say much for Jug Ears who was flying in the LH seat at the time!!

The best thing about that accident was that "Mummy won't let the incompetant twit fly her aeroplane any more". He doesn't appear to have flown since. That makes for safer airspace, and careers for the rest.

Needless to say any official report won't make Jug Ears look bad, but will hang anyone else close to the scene.

I will now get my hat and coat and head for the Tower!!

[ZH875]

You would have thought, with ears that size, HRH would have heard the radio calls regarding the wind etc. :O

[mik3bravo]

I remember the incident reported on the TV BBC news. After reading this thread, I went digging on the Web and found THIS (http://www.aparchive.com/metadata/UK-Prince-Charles-Has-Difficult-Landing/dc7271fcb3ed4380e4c4f32bee251f5f?query=UK+ROYAL+FAMILY&curre nt=13&orderBy=Relevance&hits=106&referrer=search&search=%2Fs earch%3Fquery%3DUK%2520ROYAL%2520FAMILY%26allFilters%3DITN%3 ASource&allFilters=ITN%3ASource&productType=IncludedProducts &page=1&b=251f5f)

[RAFEngO74to09]

There is also this watered down version in the public domain:

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=187927

Extract:

"The flight had come from Aberdeen. Runway 13/31 at Islay is 1,545 metres long with a landing distance available of 1,245 metres. The runway has a tarmac surface. It is reported that the Board of Inquiry found the captain 'negligent' in that '(he failed) to intervene when the aircraft performance and limitations were exceeded in the final stages of the flight'.

The navigator was also apparently found 'negligent' for 'failing to advise the captain of the tailwind component and to draw his attention to the inaccurate approach parameters.' "

[Brat]

If, as Beag's says the Captain and Navigator were held to be "grossly incompetant" that doesn't say much for Jug Ears who was flying in the LH seat at the time!!

The best thing about that accident was that "Mummy won't let the incompetant twit fly her aeroplane any more". He doesn't appear to have flown since. That makes for safer airspace, and careers for the rest.

Needless to say any official report won't make Jug Ears look bad, but will hang anyone else close to the scene.

I will now get my hat and coat and head for the Tower!!

No need, this is the UK all you have done is publish that you are a prejudiced anti-royalist.

No worries, there are one or two around... your a protected endangered species.

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

I remember the incident reported on the TV BBC news. After reading this thread, I went digging on the Web and found THIS (http://www.aparchive.com/metadata/UK-Prince-Charles-Has-Difficult-Landing/dc7271fcb3ed4380e4c4f32bee251f5f?query=UK+ROYAL+FAMILY&curre nt=13&orderBy=Relevance&hits=106&referrer=search&search=%2Fs earch%3Fquery%3DUK%2520ROYAL%2520FAMILY%26allFilters%3DITN%3 ASource&allFilters=ITN%3ASource&productType=IncludedProducts &page=1&b=251f5f)


Caused by a burst tyre, forsooth! The crew exonerated after all these ears. I mean years.

[Blacksheep]

nothing to do with Air Chief Marshal The Prince Of Wales, Last time I looked he was a Marshal of the Royal Air Force.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/06/28/article-2165852-13D5B36A000005DC-802_964x703.jpg

[RedhillPhil]

I'd feel rather humbled to be faced by three DFC holders as well as the widow(?) of another.

[Background Noise]

Last time I looked he was a Marshal of the Royal Air Force.

Blacksheep, the post you quoted is from 2007.

The Accident Summary is here: http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20121206150429/http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/65F3C701-0FE7-4086-80FA-EEF5242D2A13/0/maas94_01_bae_146_cc2_ze700_29jun94.pdf

[BEagle]

Background Noise, that is NOT the full Aircraft Incident Report, it is some watered-down version.

Rather like one of those edited-for-kids versions of original movies which sometimes appear on TV.

[Background Noise]

I know. It is the summary, as I said.

[Rwy in Sight]

Funny this thread appeared just now. A couple of days ago, I was asking whether a report was published and what went wrong with landing.

Thanks for the link gents.

[MPN11]

It was a bit of an horrendous arrival, having refreshed my memory from that report.

HRH in a hurry.
HRH wants to drive.
Noticeable tailwind, short runway, unstabilised/nimble approach, unskilled HP.

What could possibly go wrong??

[Airbubba]

And the original reason for the visit was for HRH to receive a ceremonial cask of Laphroaig:

On Wednesday the 29th of June 1994 HRH Prince Charles, accompanied by his private secretary Richard Aylard and detective Collin Tinning, paid an official visit to Laphroaig. This visit was well documented at the time but the columns were not so much filled with details of this visit as his unfortunate aeroplane crash. Charles overshot the runway attempting to land his plane on tricky windy Islay.

The plane was so badly damaged that he was unable to fly back home to Highgrove. As a result, the 20 minute flying visit turned into a two-and-a half hour stay, much to the delight of at the time distillery manager, Iain Henderson. When a new aeroplane eventually arrived, the Prince left in somewhat of a hurry.

Later that evening the “confession interview” on BBC with David Dimbleby was to be broadcasted, and the Prince was anxious to see it.

On his visit to the distillery, the Prince was invited to bung two casks of Laphroaig. The two casks were given to him, which he kindly donated to two charity funds of his choice.

One was a 1978 cask, which was bottled as a 15-year old and auctioned for the Cancer Relief Macmillan Fund.

The 1983 cask was to be matured for a further five years for his 50th birthday, also bottled as a 15-year old, and was given in 1999 to an appeal for the Erskine Hospital for ex-servicemen in Dumbarton.

Most of these 1983 bottles were sold through Loch Fyne whiskies.

The Prince personally signed 15 of the 270 bottles with his name, simply: “Charles”. These bottles were auctioned and some of them for as much as 29.000 pounds. For his personal consumption, the Prince received a commemorative miniature cask.

Since the Prince’s visit to Laphroaig, the distillery does a special bottling for Highgrove with its own label, which can be bought by visitors in the Highgrove shop on his Gloucestershire estate. These bottlings are either standard 10 or 15-years old.

In 1994 the distillery was also granted a Royal Warrant, for which occasion a special 10-year old Laphroaig was bottled, called “Royal Warrant”.


More, and pictures of the distillery visit here:

laphroaig collector (http://www.laphroaigcollector.com/HRH.htm)

[sharpend]

Sorry, but given the inexperience of the HP, the Captain should have had the guts to say no. Whilst I was captain of a royal flight, HRH asked to sit in the left seat to which I declined and suggested that if HRH wanted to fly the aircraft I would offer to arrange a 'Senior Officers Course' for him.

[Mil-26Man]

Sorry, but given the inexperience of the HP, the Captain should have had the guts to say no.

I was about to type something along the lines of 'easy for you to say', and then I carried on reading...

Whilst I was captain of a royal flight, HRH asked to sit in the left seat to which I declined and suggested that if HRH wanted to fly the aircraft I would over to arrange a 'Senior Officers Course' for him.

Fair dos.

[ShotOne]

For all those who've used this as an anti-monarchy high horse, had this been a regular civilian airline flight, the can would have been carried, just as in this case, by the aircraft captain.

[The Old Fat One]

For all those who've used this as an anti-monarchy high horse, had this been a regular civilian airline flight, the can would have been carried, just as in this case, by the aircraft captain.

What an excellent point. No difference at all in a military officer sitting next to his future King and an airline Captain sitting next to his First Officer.

Aren't we all emotionless humanoids everyday.

Roll on AI, then we won't have to bother with this inconvenient human factors cr@p anymore.

[gr4techie]

For all those who've used this as an anti-monarchy high horse, had this been a regular civilian airline flight, the can would have been carried, just as in this case, by the aircraft captain.

There's no comparison.

How many civvies can demand to land the aircraft themselves to pick up a bottle of whiskey

[charliegolf]

Drift, but Sharpend started it M'Lud.

I remember a trip to Wegberg Strip to deliver a one star to his meeting. The pilot was a first tourist, regarded by his peers as somewhat slow and boring- not gung ho enough. The airship returned to the aircraft, the weather having worsened somewhat, and pushed the pilot to launch. The pilot exercised piloteness in refusal, "I just think we'll give it a short while Sir...". The airship was not having it, all but calling the guy a wimp, and really pressing. At the third go, the pilot said, "Sir, I am the pilot of this aircraft, and we will not depart until I say so, and that won't be at all if the weather doesn't improve." The airship then did his first reasonable thing in the exchange. He STFU! Made my day.

CG

[Beancountercymru]

HRH is not the only Royal co-pilot

Dutch King Willem-Alexander reveals secret flights as co-pilot - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39946532)

[Davef68]

HRH is not the only Royal co-pilot

Dutch King Willem-Alexander reveals secret flights as co-pilot - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39946532)


That's a bit different.

[Fonsini]

I clearly recall this and the general feeling of the public that the PIC had been placed in an impossible position when faced with telling an inexperienced pilot who just happened to be the future king to stay the hell out of the cockpit.

We all know where the plant whisperer is these days, but does anyone know what became of the pilot in the years that followed ?

[Top West 50]

Fonsini, your first paragraph is untrue.

[Avitor]

I'd feel rather humbled to be faced by three DFC holders as well as the widow(?) of another.

Mannequins do not do humbled.

[Shack37]

This is fast heading to be the most boring thread ever on PPRuNe.:rolleyes:

[Fonsini]

Fonsini, your first paragraph is untrue.

Which bit ?