Right to land

[Delta Bravo]

Possibly a daft question, but can someone point me in the direction of the rule(s) that governs what airfields you can/cant land on for GA? I'd always assumed you just had a general right to land at any airfield subject to paying the landing fee, but I've been put on the spot to back this up and I'm stumped.

Are there any rules? Someone couldn't just rock up and land at Heathrow, say, could they? Or would this be something that is set by owners of the particular airfield?

Many thanks.

[hobbit1983]

I believe (although I stand ready to be corrected) that since civil airports are, by definition, private land, landing without permission from the owners of said land is trespass (unless they have stated previously that unannouced arrivals are acceptable).

Therefore I suppose the rule would be - "Unless you have obtained PPR, or the owners have stated it is acceptable to land without PPR (or it's an emergency), landing is forbidden".

Although I must point out this is all pretty much an educated guess on my part.

[Comanche250]

On a slightly different slant...if you are a member of a club and you arrive there from a different airfield in an a/c not owned by that club, without permission, are you entitled to land without ppr?

C250

[skydriller]

And also related to this, when an aerodrome has published hours of operation, whats to stop you landing/taking off outwith those hours?

[walkabout]

You'll find this information in Pooleys/Bootlang guides....for example (from an old Pooleys):
Heathrow 'may be used for non-scheduled commercial and executive aircraft subject to special conditions listed on p341. Light single and twin engined aircraft will not be permitted to use this airport'. London City won't permit 'helis, SE aircraft and fights for recreation'.
Manchester - 'use by GA and business aviation subject to prior permission'. I was ok'd to take a twin in recently but at £160+ landing/mandatory handling charges for a non peak arrival/departure and no parking!
You can check the rest yourself.
As hobbit said, the owner/operator (in the case of the large fields) will determine the who will be given permission and how much they will be charged for it. I believe local flying schools tend to be exempt the handling charges which means training can still take place at the larger fields.
I suspect landing outside of operating hours without permission would also be trespass and with permission just expensive without the jail sentence!
W

[Whopity]

Outside of the published hours, the airfield would be unlicensed.
Rubbish, its is either licensed or its not! It may not fulfill the conditions of its licence, but it does not go away.

Aerodromes have either a Public Licence or a Private Licence. If its private then you have no right whatsoever to go there without the owners permission. Technically PPR should be the norm at any Private Aerodrome.

[skydriller]

The bit about published out of hours proceedures seems logical.

But....:confused: ...I read the accident report in the link, and it states the aerodrome was closed....But also states there was a high intensity of microlight activity at the time of the crash, indicating that the aerodrome was open?!?!:confused:

Now I understand that the aerodrome in the example given was unlicenced, but that isnt the same as closed....or is it??

Am I correct in thinking that this whole issue is down to the old classic, PPR; which of course could be by phone, radio, carrier pigeon etc...

Regards, SD..

[muffin]

I thought that the only relevance of licensing was that it was a requirement for training flights? ie if you are a training flight you need a licensed field, if you are not, you don't. That is nothing to do with whether it is open or not.

[skydriller]

Muffin beat me to it !! I was about to add to my post above that I thought licencing of aerodromes was to do with training and fire service levels, not whether they were open or closed to aircraft!!

[Bronx]

"Trespass" ? :eek:
I dont think so.
Anyways, trespass aint a crime in England.

[tangovictor]

being found within a closed premis is though

[FREDAcheck]

I don't believe there's any magic that allows Sky Gods some sort of Right to Roam on an airfield. An airfield will generally publish its hours of operation, and what permission you must have (eg PPR by radio / phone / handwritten notification on vellum). Outside hours of operation, almost certainly you don't have permission unless you've made prior arrangements.

If you land without permission, the airport operator may, for example, charge you much higher landing fees and may even, in some circumstances, prevent you taking your plane away until you've paid.

If you land without permission, there is no certainty that the runway is fit for use (for example, sometimes a runway may be used for other purposes) and your insurance may be invalid. If anything goes wrong, the CAA would almost certainly take a dim view.

It's like saying you have a right to park your car at any time in a Sainsbury's car park. If Sainsbury's tell you the car park is closed, then it's closed.
I don't believe an airfield is any different.

[Say again s l o w l y]

There are certain flights that must start and finish from a licenced airfield, but these are PPL training flights. You don't need a licenced airfield if you already have a licence yourself!

When an airfield is closed, it is more than just removing the licence, basically the "owner" is removing permission to land on their property, so don't do it without having sorted something out in the first place.

However, landing at an unlicenced field should have no effect on your insurance unless for some reason this is mentioned, but I've never seen that.

DB, as a matter of courtesy you should contact any airfield you intend to land at, I do this as a matter of course even at larger airports, where you can PPR over the radio usually.
As for taking a light a/c into Heathrow!!! Unless you have a major problem and Heathrow is the only option, you have more chance of dating Pamela Anderson!

Basically though, within reason you can land anywhere you have the land owners permission, this can include a field, though this isn't recommended unless you know what you are doing, have recced it properly first and have a suitable machine (140hp cherokees aren't recommended!), but unfortunately too many people stick only to the "normal" destinations instead of going to wherever they fancy.
To me that's one of the joys and freedoms of flight rather than just going to the same old place for a crap bacon butty......

[Whirlybird]

To find out where you can land and what is required before you show up, look up the relevant airfield in the AIP. A simple way of doing this is to use Pooleys or some other flight guide, which is what most of us do. However, since these guides tend to be out of date almost before they're published, it's sensible to phone the airfield anyway and check. That phone call should also ascertain if they're closed for some reason, eg a sudden accident and a blocked runway. However, if an airfield doesn't say in the flight guides that they're PPR, it's quite OK to just turn up if you want to.

GA aircraft can land at almost any airfield in the UK. I think Heathrow is the sole exception, but I'm not certain of that. A year or so ago I landed at Manchester - phone in advance to get a slot, no problem when I had to change it due to an electrical problem, no problem again when I was a bit late for my slot, very helpful if you get lost on their forest of taxiways, and only £35 landing fee (technically departure fee or some similar name).

Licensing of airfields has nothing to do with whether you can land there or not, generally. Training flights need licensed airfields; I don't know if anyone else does. Various small airfields are unlicensed after, say, 5pm, as they have no fire cover, but they may be quite happy for aircraft to take-off and land outside of those times...but you need to check. I remember a sunny day at Sleap one summer, and it was unlicensed but crowded after 5pm. Some well-known and frequently used airfields are not licensed, Popham being the best known example - which is why there is no ab initio training there. And most microlight fields are unlicensed, but you can often still land there with permission and if your aircraft and skill level can cope with the short runways.

If in doubt, phone the airfield and ask. I usually phone everywhere now, and just say I want to fly in, and is that OK and what's the weather like and is there anything I need to know....forget requesting PPR and all the fancy terminology; just speak English, as one person to another. Unless it's a weather diversion or similar of course, in which case tell them that on the radio, and people are usually amazingly helpful.

[Flying Lawyer]

tangovictor
being found within a closed premis is though
No, it isn't.

Being found on enclosed premises for an unlawful purpose is an offence: Section 4 Vagrancy Act 1824.
Merely entering without permission is not an offence.

[Rod1]

“Therefore I would assume that no flight requiring a licensed airfield could take place on that day in question and that would include flight training.”

NO! Flight training for group A requires a licensed or government airfield, but Micros can train from unlicensed airfields, as can gliders, both of which count as flight training.

[IO540]

Taking a slightly wider view of where one can and cannot land (there is a world outside the UK too):

If you file a flight plan which gets accepted, and you get notams, and the notams don't show up any special requirements, and you have checked the airfield opening hours in the relevant AIP, then you can fly. This is what most people do.

In the past, I have tried to be extra diligent and faxed airports for any details I needed to know e.g. avgas. Venice once replied that it is closed to GA. This is rubbish - had I filed an IFR flight plan there (it is 24H etc) I could have just gone and they would not have had any choice but to accept the flight.

Corfu LGKR plays a similar game. The notams used to show something like 24HR notification (nothing at all in today's notams) but if you ask them they will say it's 5 days, to "regulate apron capacity"! The GA apron big enough to land on and rarely has more than a couple of rusting spamcans sitting in the far corner.

Take Cranfield. If you call them up saying you would like to land with an ILS, they will probably say they can't accept you due to training activity. But if you file an IFR flight plan, and it's accepted, and the notams don't contain any special requirements (they certainly don't today; just checked) then they have to accept the incoming flight. They just don't like "UK bimblers" arriving and asking for an ILS - despite charging them some £50 for the privilege.

So sometimes it pays to play it purely by the rules, file and fly. It's a shame because phoning the airfield beforehand should always be a good thing to do, and checking fuel availability is pretty essential in the further away places.

Duxford is weird. I was on a flight once where they refused a landing due to no PPR. Calling them from the aircraft on a mobile phone was apparently not acceptable either - they said if we land at Cambridge that will be OK. I can see that PPR is the result of planning restrictions but it is often a complete joke, since one can make a phone call from an aircraft if low enough especially with an adapter like the Safety Cell thingy.

[englishal]

But.... ...I read the accident report in the link, and it states the aerodrome was closed....But also states there was a high intensity of microlight activity at the time of the crash, indicating that the aerodrome was open?!?!
Like where I fly from.....the airfield closes to visiting aeroplanes at 18:00 and the radio guy goes home. As I am a "resident" they don't mind if I come and go out of hours as I please, so long as it is before sunset and after sunrise. It is great, I even have my own key to the gate;)

[Whirlybird]

When I was flying in France, I tried to phone ahead as I usually do in the UK. But the French thought I was nuts - the attitude seemed to be that if it was an airfield you could fly there. I like it in theory...but if the airfield is in controlled airspace, and doesn't reply when you call on the radio because it's lunch time.....well, that's another story, probably for another thread.

['Chuffer' Dandridge]

I was always under the impression that an aerodrome with a 'Public' aerodrome license (Shoreham etc) had to open to all & sundry, unless with good reason (and NOTAMd as such). A 'Private' licensed aerodrome (e.g Duxford) may have restrictions, contained in the AIP...one of which may be PPR....

I cant believe the arrogance of some posters here. If an airfield is closed, its closed for good reason. If the requirement is for PPR, then why not do it Hardly difficult is it? Some airfields, Duxford for example, often have high performance aircraft carrying out display practice overhead, and the last thing i would want is somebody blundering through my sequence without an appreciation of what's happening in the circuit. Sadly something that is all too frequent these days...

As for 'private airstrips', a flying windsock does not give permission to land or to do touch and goes:ugh:

[IO540]

cant believe the arrogance of some posters here. If an airfield is closed, its closed for good reason. If the requirement is for PPR, then why not do it Hardly difficult is it? Some airfields, Duxford for example, often have high performance aircraft carrying out display practice overhead, and the last thing i would want is somebody blundering through my sequence without an appreciation of what's happening in the circuit. Sadly something that is all too frequent these

I suspect you may be confusing a phone call for PPR, with calling up on the radio before landing.

PPR is PPR - if you have to do it then fair enough, but it's also reasonable to question the justification for it. I suspect it's for planning permission reasons in most cases (i.e. NIMBYs) and nothing to do with operations. Most airfields would like all the business they can possibly get; if you look at the runway/taxiway condition they could pretty obviously use the money.

Shoreham, incidentally, has a movements limit imposed by planning. Same as Farnborough, though the latter is a far lower figure.

[BillieBob]

Try Rule 35 of the Rules of the Air Regulations for a start

An aircraft shall not taxi on the apron or the manoeuvring area of an aerodrome without the permission of the person in charge of the aerodrome or, where the aerodrome has an air traffic control unit or an aerodrome flight information service unit for the time being notified as being on watch, without the permission of that unit.

The definition of an aerodrome being "Any area of land or water designed, equipped, set apart or commonly used for affording facilities for the landing and departure of aircraft and includes any area or space, whether on the ground, on the roof of a building or elsewhere, which is designed, equipped or set apart for affording facilities for the landing and departure of aircraft capable of descending or climbing vertically, but shall not include any area the use of which for affording facilities for the landing and departure of aircraft has been abandoned and has not been resumed."

Whilst this does not specifically prevent an aircraft from landing at an aerodrome without permission, it is difficult to see what, apart from a touch-and-go, you could do after landing that would not involve taxying on the 'apron or maneouvring area'

[skydriller]

When I was flying in France, I tried to phone ahead as I usually do in the UK. But the French thought I was nuts - the attitude seemed to be that if it was an airfield you could fly there. I like it in theory...but if the airfield is in controlled airspace, and doesn't reply when you call on the radio because it's lunch time.....well, that's another story, probably for another thread.

The above, and the contrast of a recent visit to Germany, is what prompted my question. Im used to the French way of doing things now and wanted to re-affirm how it is in the UK. Most Aerodromes here in France that are "ouvert à la CAP", are generally open to come and go as you please unless it states differently in the VAC. ATC hours are given and usually outwith these times you self announce in French, sometimes controlled airspace is de-activated too.

Whirly, Unless you are calling the tower at a full ATC aerodrome, the number in the VAC is probably the aeroclub who run/look after the aerodrome (as is the case where I fly from), and the person you call may not be anywhere near the airfield!!

Thanks to those who answered my query,

Regards, SD..

[Delta Bravo]

Cheers all, v helpful.

[DX Wombat]

There is nothing to stop you telephoning and asking permission to land out of hours, it will just mean that the usual safetly measures will not be in place. (Fire, radio etc)
Duxford's entry states that everyone has to telephone for PPR and a special briefing and it doesn't matter how many times you have visited previously it makes a lot of sense to do so as they often have their warbirds practising and I for one would not like to get tangled up with them. :ooh:
London City won't permit '.......... and fights for recreation'.
Only for the last bacon butty :E

[scooter boy]

To complicate things further some airfields will accept you "out of hours" as an insurance indemnity. (Provided they are happy with your insurance documents, certain weather minima are met and it is daytime).

You usually have to be based there but moaning ad nauseam can occasionally open doors.

I rarely arrive and depart during "open" hours at one the the fields I regularly commute into as I need to be at work earlier than ATC start and usually finish work later than they finish.

Am I in the wrong job?

SB ;)

[WHBM]

London City is (obviously) a licenced airfield. At weekends they close from 1230 Saturday to 1230 Sunday, and at that time it is unlicenced it would appear.

Once a year they have their "Fun day" on the Saturday afternoon, with light aircraft in, aerobatics, etc. Yet though the guys are up in the tower and all is above board they revert to A/G radio only and always are precise to correct anybody coming in (PPR of course) who calls them by their normal callsigns. Makes me wonder what happens and whether they go unlicenced for the afternoon for some reason.

[Fuji Abound]

Duxford's entry states that everyone has to telephone for PPR and a special briefing and it doesn't matter how many times you have visited previously it makes a lot of sense to do so as they often have their warbirds practising and I for one would not like to get tangled up with them.

Personally I dont think it makes any sense at all.

If you happen to be passing by, and they are not practising, or as is often the case, there are only a few visitors, why should the tower not clear you to land? If they are practising, they can of course tell you sorry not today I am afraid, or, we have aircraft in the circuit, are you familiar with our procedures? It really isnt rocket science as proven by places such as Headcorn where you can pitch up most any time with parachuting, aeros in the overhead and plenty of other things going on.

In most other countries this does not go on, and I suspect would not be tolerated. When it gets to the points that you cant fly any where without filing a flight plan, notifying customs, notifying the police, 'phoning to tell them you are coming (and going), asked not to forget your yellow jacket etc I suspect most people will have hung up their headsets permanently.

[gasax]

Right to land? I read the title and thought - not on my strip you don't. But on 'public airfields? The situation is a little different and certainly during notified hours I do wonder about the whole PPR by phone, 'special briefing' thing.

What is so complicated? Tour France (or most other European countires) and you'll find airfields that integrate parachuting, aerobatics, the military and scheduled carriers with GA. No PPR beyond asking for instructions on the radio.

Try to land at places like Humberside and if you're within 10 minutes of a scheduled flight it becomes a major emergency. If one of our local MATZ has an air experience flight within it they 'refuse' crossing permission!

If you can't see WW2 heavy metal swooping through a circuit and cannot hear the radio then probably you should n't be flying. I suspect the special instructions are very simple (well they should be...) as for having to hold a couple of miles away? Is this hard?