O-200 (Franklin) engine. What is it used on?

[blue up]

I've seen lots of reference to Continental O-200 engines but there is also a Franklin O-200 engine, sometimes called a 4A-235 or Sport 4, that was produced in the 70's. Anybody know what they were commonly fitted to? Same size and weight as the Cont O-200 but more powerful. I have a brand new one here in a box but have almost no material to suggest what it might go onto.
A couple of dead websites on the net but not much else.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/foggythomas/franklinsideview.jpg

I've no plane it will fit onto so I'm wondering if anyone can use it.

Sorry if this sounds like an advert but I've run out of ideas.:O

[Ptkay]

these engines were kept in production in Poland
by PZL Rzeszów on licence.
They were installed in PZL Koliber 110,
a licence version of Socata Rallye.
PZL Rzeszów stopped the production some time ago,
all the rights for production and service were taken over
by a Polish company:

http://www.franklin-engines.com/

Try to contact them, maybe they will buy it from you.

[BackPacker]

Have you tried listing it on eBay? If someone, somewhere, happens to be looking for that engine to restore an antique or something, that's one of the places they'll be checking almost daily. Or mayby somebody in the homebuild community? If it's a straight swap for a Continental O-200 then somebody building an RV or something might be interested.

[blue up]

Isn't it a bit small for an RV? I think most of them go for 150+ hp. Did the Kitfox ever have the Franklin as an option?

As to Ebay, I'd try it if I had an idea what it ought to go for. I assume Cont O-200s are worth more due to a greater supply of components? Some going for between 2 and 12 thousand quid

[the dean]

my dad tells me they were used on J3 piper cubs ( which are still around ) in 1941......

he has found something in writing about this but is subject to correction.they were used with other engines at the time such i think as continental. they may well have been used on more than the cub...

but, you should enquire...

would'nt it be nice to find they could be fitted to a cub as you can still get J3s...i am sure cub owners will answer you , but as i think the american forces may have discontinued the franklin engine in the J3 in 1941 there may not be much information around now as to its use...

anyway...good luck with it...:ok:

the dean.

[BackPacker]

The problem is, if the paper trail for that engine is not fully complete (and I somehow suspect it isn't, otherwise you would have known more about it), then fitting it to a CofA aircraft will probably be a no-no, unless the factory (in Poland???) re-certifies it. That leaves the homebuild or antiques Permit to Fly aircraft. Have you tried the PFA?

[Mark 1]

Homebuilders are probably the best market.
Have a read of this:
http://www.pfa.org.uk/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000806

[gasax]

From what Little I remember it was used in the small Stinson which pre-dated the 108 series. This was I think the HW75, and there is certainly at least one in the UK.

As for what to use it on? It is supposedly a direct replacement for the Continental O-200 (indeed the Franklin was originally called the O-200 and the Continental an O-205 - before the use of the Franklin died out in the US military).

The issues? Well spares are like rocking horse sh*t, the impressive sounding 125hp is like all Franklin claims - a complete fairy tale, it is more likely 100 to 105. Oh and finding anyone outside of the US who knows anything about it is nearly impossible.

I looked at them carefully whilst an outfit called Atlas Motors were trying to sell them in the US - they sold a handful but I think almost exclusively to exisitng Franklin owners and even then the engines were not complete.

Its an interesting thought but would I replace my O-200 with it? Afraid not!

[blue up]

Thanks, guys.

Took the engine over to be inspected by the PFA and they are happy to issue it with a logbook as if it were a recon engine and it will be 'on condition' like most PFA engines. Two ADs on the carb to sort out (Venturi and float). Fortunately, this engine is complete with the exception of exhaust manifold and starter.

PZL evidently rated it at 116 hp due to the Polish regulations requiring absolute proof of rated power on a dyno. Interestingly, whilst looking through the internet I found a site for Corvair engines where they ran an O-200 Cont on a dyno and came out with way below 90hp for the engine!! A bit like Cessna fuel gauges, the factory figure shown bears only a vague resemblance to the actual figure.

[blue up]

Found that website again. Interesting reading!
http://www.flycorvair.com/thrust.html

75.9 hp for an O-200 Continental.

[BackPacker]

Did you talk to the PFA, while you were there, about how and where to sell it? I imagine that the PFA will have some sort of list of all the aircraft that it gave a Permit To Fly to, with data on type, MTOW and engine that's used. You might be able to find a few owners and inspectors of planes with this engine that way.

[gasax]

I periodically visit the Convair site, its interesting reading. Worth remembering that the O-200 original type certicate gives the max power of 100hp at 2750 and 75 hp at 2500. So if during the trials the engine was turning at 2450 and producing 75hp it was doing what is says on the tin!

[blue up]

A re-read suggests it was making 75.9 hp at the peak power RPM of 2750 and 74.6 hp at the peak torque of 2450 RPM (unless I read it wrong?) so it still comes out short of the output written on the outside of the box.

I'd still rather have a Continental, if I could afford one (and a Pietenpol behind it)

[Andy_RR]

It looks like the cooling issues at peak power were adequately addressed - NOT!

[gasax]

Have to agree Andy, I cann't think of any petrol engine which produces less power at its rated speed than it does at max torque. It has to be said that the O-200 is pretty 'peaky' given that there is only 250 rpm between 75% and 100% power (according to the specification sheets). Which leads to a lot of the discussion in the US of the superiority of the C90 over the O-200.

When I read the article I presumed they had made a mistake with the second figure - although even they speculate there may have been an equipment problem. But cooling on a pusher installation is never easy - especially on a test stand, you only have to look at the recommended size of scoop necessary fro statically testing a tractor propeller installation (opening has about the same area as the top of the engine!!!

I'm more inclined to believe the type certificate than this 'testing'.

[blue up]

Have you seen the Franklin cooling around the heads (pic in 1st post). They really went to town on casting fins in there and there is no need for baffles between cylinders as the pots practically touch each other. Common mod is to put 10:1 compression cylinders in there. Guess a few people are either content with their cooling or have a spare set of pots (well, sleeves, since the Franklin just has standard size pistons and removable sleeves in the pots)

Antone know what comp ratio an O-200 runs at? Franklin standard is 8.8:1

[Andy_RR]

You still need to get the air flowing past them.

That's why there are engine cowlings and baffles inside them. With limited airflow and full power, I would imagine friction might become an issue really quickly...