Current Gulf Air issues (threads merged) [Archive]

A300Man

5th Apr 2007, 19:51

Marketing. Image.
Marketing. Image.
Marketing. Image.

Two words that GF need to work on - they have been beaten by the likes of QR / EK / EY (the ultra-former latterly) who have spent proper dollar in "keeping the brand alïve". GF - unfortunately - hasn't done it well enough. The company has allowed itself to disappear into the undergrowth.......

Take the prime example of "Cool Britannia". The UK is currently bombarded by the savvy PR people from EK / QR / EY who have associated themselves with leading market placements - EK with Arsenal and cricket et al, QR with SKY NEWS and CNN, Etihad with Man Utd, etc........

Gulf Air??????? Nowhere!!

Ok, I am the first to admit that slick advertising doesnt neccessarily guarantee an excellent product. But brand awareness DOES guarantee bums on seats. (whether they be satisfied bums or not......)

GF has given up the ghost.

Andre can make as many cuts and economies that he is able, but unless he relights the brand fire, it's all pointless.

Panama Jack

5th Apr 2007, 20:08

Sure, advertising translates to bums on seats, and it does pay to advertise, however, does $1 in advertising return at least $1 in profit?

Lets face it, most of the Middle-Eastern carriers are not profitable. What we are seeing is the airline-equivalent of the nuclear arms race between the USSR and the USA in the late 1900's.

I am not saying that I have the answer or the solution, rather, I am questioning on whether "keeping up with the Jones'" is the key to profit and progress.

I agree with you that cutting alone is not the solution-- you cut and cut, and pretty soon there is nothing less. Gord Bethune covered that philosophy well in his book "From Worst to First."

A300Man

5th Apr 2007, 20:14

.....and CO is still here!

boiler

5th Apr 2007, 20:22

Talking to my source, FRA is definitely not on the endangered list.

awss2

6th Apr 2007, 05:07

Ok, I am the first to admit that slick advertising doesnt neccessarily guarantee an excellent product. But brand awareness DOES guarantee bums on seats. (whether they be satisfied bums or not......)

You are absolutely right here A300 man, and that is probably why GF prefers to publicise where others advertise. Why should they position themsleves as QR, EY and EK?

But then, the best position is the one that is reflected through the staff, because if anything they are subconciously the best advertising any company has, once that is achieved then and only then will GF be positionned, let's see that happen...:suspect:

Andre's task I am afraid is not easy....good luck, because beyond convincing the nationals that this is their airline and get them to work in addition to swiping in and out everyday, GF needs to rid itself of some pretty awfull ozzie remains! Blondie, MK are only but a few!

Trader

7th Apr 2007, 05:41

Getting rid of the deadwood should be a simple task considering that it appears he is replacing most at the VP level. If he brings in people he trusts it will not take long for them to see the the non-performers below them. Replacing them and moving on down the chain in the same manner may produce some good results.

It appears that Mr Dose has the required 'carte blanche' to make those changes - at least I hope he does.

Desert Diner

7th Apr 2007, 08:00

GF's main problem is not the lack of slick advertisement but the lack of clean toilets and clean (untired) looking cabins.

Flash adverts, flash paint jobs and "on-board" chefs may lure you onboard, but it's the state of the cabins that will bring you back.

This is something that most of the "miracle workers" that they have hired in the past have failed to comprehend. :ouch:

Will Mr. Dose?

Sinbad1

7th Apr 2007, 08:31

:ooh: Gulf Air axes execs in shake-up (http://www.ameinfo.com/115810.html):ooh:

Gulf Air has axed three top officials under a dramatic restructuring move, Gulf Daily News reported. Sent packing were Ahmed Al Hammadi, VP finance; Tariq Sultan, VP for services; and Ali Murtada, VP for business units. New chief Andre Dose warned that drastic action was need to save the airline, but that there were no quick fixes.
Bahrain: Thursday, April 05 - 2007 at 08:11 :rolleyes:

all119

9th Apr 2007, 14:58

Gulf air considering either Boeing 787s or Airbus A350s on option, to replace its Boeing 767 aircraft which are to be phased out by 2009.

is it true
:eek:

Panama Jack

9th Apr 2007, 15:52

I think Gulf Air is considering everything. Lacking though, is a timely decision, which gets worse as other airlines announce large purchases of these new planes (meaning that any new metal (or plastic) will take even longer to show up on the apron). I've seen a Boeing poster with a picture of a Boeing 787 in the GF livery-- looks nice and without having all the information, facts and data, I personally think the 787 would make a good fit to the fleet.

Hopefully with the new leadership on property, and what seems to be renewed dedication from Government to make Gulf Air work, some sort of decision will be announced soon.

In the meantime, it is my hope that Mr. Dose and his team will push some characteristic Swiss precision and standards into things that are most readily apparent to our passengers, such as the interiors of our existing fleet (they will be here for years still) and on-time performance.

GF-A330

9th Apr 2007, 16:14

Got following info from a friend.
On Sunday, 8 April 2007 the Board of Directors unanimously approved our restructuring plan aimed at securing the future of Gulf Air to the benefit of the economy and the people of the Kingdom of Bahrain and the Sultanate of Oman.
The restructuring plan includes far reaching measures to improve the profitability of our company and to stop the significant losses that occur each day.
These measures include the downsizing of the current fleet from 34 to 28 aircraft, creating an all Airbus fleet, and no longer using our own aircraft to fly to some unprofitable destinations.

Speedbrake Lever

9th Apr 2007, 20:47

Its Bye Bye 76 from Sept

and bye bye HKG, SIN , SYD, CGK, JNB & DUB

DOWN to 28 A/C at least we won't cause any embarrassment to Boeing or Airbus for late deliveries

Just think of how many redundancies this will cause

and who's the new VPO

Bjorn .....

wish it was Borg

S.L.

brassplate

9th Apr 2007, 20:51

you don't think the b767 drivers will go onto the airbuses? what about the long termers? Or even the ones with bonds still outstanding?

Panama Jack

9th Apr 2007, 21:04

Places like CGK and HKG are not profitable? :confused:

ironbutt57

9th Apr 2007, 21:47

SYD yes, didnt hear HKG or or SIN..:eek:

Spirit

9th Apr 2007, 22:11

Heard we would open on GVA and ZRH instead...

/Spirit (now available with sunglasses...):cool:

REACH-69

9th Apr 2007, 23:15

so at last ,the boeing drivers are gonna fly with side sticks and the guys who are worried to are resigning before it's too late:ok:

ODMEA

9th Apr 2007, 23:55

GF SYD has just employed a couple of new staff. Also they are currently shortlisting for their AUS/NZ Gen Mgr role for which they received 60ish resumes.

Are we definitely sure SYD will be axed or is this merely the 'viewpoint' of those who feel SYD should go.

With QR, EY and EK in AUS or wanting more flight slots into AUS, makes no real sense for GF to pull out. Esp if restructuring means the GF product will get even better in/out of SYD.:hmm:

Anyone with any GF authority able to confirm SYD as a definite axe?

Thanks:)

brassplate

9th Apr 2007, 23:57

apparently, you can now add the vpo to that list.

brassplate

10th Apr 2007, 00:02

you've just about covered the more civilised destinations that gulf air flies to. will they now go to only the 3rd world destinations with their new aircrafts? what a novel idea!

ironbutt57

10th Apr 2007, 04:26

ODMEA, lots of rumours flying around...just that as far as official info made public at this time:confused:

awss2

10th Apr 2007, 04:34

Boys, boys, boys!

3rd world destinations as you call them are the bread and butter of GF, and who ever put in your mind that SYD was one of the "more" civilised destinations we have? Since when is OZ civilised, I think you need to check your values, Austaralia and ozzies are not civilised, particularly when they are drivers, or cropdusters if you want to call them that!

Capt Hair Y Balls

10th Apr 2007, 06:07

awss2,

Let me give you some examples in order for you to understand the term CIVILIZED for I fear you do not comprehend it's true meaning.

Civilized is when your society has embraced human rights
Civilized is when your society encourages freedom of speech
Civilized is having a high state of culture and development both social and technological
Civilized is when you don't marry your first cousin
Civilized is when you drive your car you don't have your baby in your lap and the other 7 kids hanging out the windows
Civilized is when you respect the Indian laborer as you would your own brother
Civilized is when you see a dog crossing the street you brake and not accelerate

Hope that clears things up dear chappy

Cheers
Capt Fluffies

gulfboy

10th Apr 2007, 06:16

Hair Y Balls,
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
:ok: :ok: :ok: :ok: :ok: :ok:

ODMEA

10th Apr 2007, 06:30

Furthermore I wonder why Sydney always rates in the TOP 5 or 10 cities in the world as most livable cities..I've YET to see ANY GCC city rate in the top 50!:hmm:

What a nasty thing to say about such a wonderful country and some of the friendliest people in the world.:confused:

Boy can this forum reach lows at times!

awss2 you haven't by chance ever applied for a job with Qantas and been rejected have you?:E

Oddy:sad:

Stratosphere6000

10th Apr 2007, 06:55

Dear Colleagues,

عربي
On Sunday, 8 April 2007 the Board of Directors unanimously approved our restructuring plan aimed at securing the future of Gulf Air to the benefit of the economy and the people of the Kingdom of Bahrain and the Sultanate of Oman.

To make this possible, shareholders have committed to a capital injection into our company to cover past costs as well as financing the restructuring and investments for future development.

The restructuring plan includes far reaching measures to improve the profitability of our company and to stop the significant losses that occur each day.

These measures include the downsizing of the current fleet from 34 to 28 aircraft, creating an all Airbus fleet, and no longer using our own aircraft to fly to some unprofitable destinations.

For the customer, the plan seeks to improve punctuality, reduce the transit time between connecting flights and improve the range of connections.

The organisation of Gulf Air will also be simplified. It will consist of four divisions (see chart). Each of those will be headed by an Executive Vice President:

Finance and Administration: Ismail Karimi

Network: Hashim Mahmood (Acting)

Sales and Marketing Lee Shave

Operations: Bjorn Naef

To get the restructuring under way, management has set up a special task force to coordinate the many projects that are needed. Also, specific actions are being undertaken to address immediate operational issues along our defined priorities: Safety, punctuality, customer service and profitability. Executive management and vice presidents meet every morning to monitor the progress and to look at shortcomings. Next week, further details of the restructuring plan will be presented.

We are aware that the restructuring will have negative implications for many of you. But if Gulf Air is to survive, we need a dramatic cultural and operational shift inside our company. On all levels of the organisation we need a total commitment to eliminate shortcomings, to improve our quality of service and product and, above all, to work as a team. Only then will we be able to achieve our turn-around and secure the future of Gulf Air. It is in our hands, and we can do it!

For the Executive Management
André Dose
President and Chief Executive

left_to_first_class

10th Apr 2007, 07:33

Expect in the next 24-48hrs news of which routes will be dropped - rumour has it that SIN, SYD, CGK, HKG, JNB, DUB and possibly ATH, IST.

BUT GF likely to operate some new destinations that have the potential to be profit making.

Panama Jack

10th Apr 2007, 08:11

First World, Second World, Third World. I am not even going to get into a debate in trying to qualify these very unclear titles. A Google search will reveal plenty of sites with rambling discussions about what these normally titles (often with political-alliance overtones) mean when applied to countries.

From a purely business standpoint, the proverb is that "money talks & B.S. walks."

If Gulf Air was yours, including it's profits and debts, and you could increase profit by deploying the entire fleet on flights to a country like, say, India, or China, you would. There are no shortage of airlines who have lost their shirts in so-called "First World" countries such as the United States or Australia, while markets like India and China are the lands of opportunity for aviation.

As a stakeholder (an employee) of Gulf Air, I really don't care much where we fly to-- sure, I would love to have 3 day nightstops in Dublin or Johannesburg, even better if we could have 5-days in Bangkok, but it doesn't mean much if this is an unsustainable model. Better for the Company to do well even if it means flying to less attractive (from my standpoint) destinations, make more money, pass along the benefits to us in the form of higher salaries & good benefits. Then I will visit these places on my vacation days.

P.S., one place that I would be unwilling to fly to under the current situation is Bagdhad. :=

Bombay HF

10th Apr 2007, 08:25

I really do think these are desperate times for GF. It's market is being erroded on all fronts..Long Haul by EK, EY, QR and even Jet on London to Bombay and Delhi. Intra Gulf by the likes of Arabia and Jazeera and soon carriers like Jet and Kingfisher will be flying to the Gulf. Maybe they should concentrate more on the Saudi market if they can get more access of course.

Capt Hair Y Balls

10th Apr 2007, 08:34

Just a few questions chaps.

a) Who in heavens name is Bjorn Naef?
b) Has Hammeed Ali been shown the door?
c) Does too much Guinness turn your $hite black?

Any answeres to these vital questions would be much appreciated.

Cheers
Capt Fluffies

Panama Jack

10th Apr 2007, 08:47

I can understand your concern Bombay HF, but for some reason I am not.

For someone like myself as a low-level organism in the heirarchy of the GF food chain, market share doesn't worry me much-- it is inevitable that GF's market share becomes less and less as other airlines in the region increase their fleet size and we do not. What concerns me more is profitability. High market share does not automatically go hand-in-hand with profitability, although it can. I am unconvinced that most of the competition in the region is profitable despite their market share.

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/0609609882.15._SCLZZZZZZZ_SS500_.jpg

Those airlines that persue market share rather than profitability (read that to also mean sustainability) are in the end only hurting their stakeholders. Over the course of less than 100-years, the history of the airline industry is littered with the wreckage of airlines that miscalculated this and other factors. Similarly, governments and airline unions have largely failed to grasp the worldwide trends in aviation.

Simply opening new, unserved markets will do nothing long term if an airline cannot address it's basic deficiencies (after all, if money is to be made on a new route, others will follow also). Hopefully Mr. Dose will be successful in addressing these deficiencies.

Bombay HF

10th Apr 2007, 08:56

Agreed, but the problem i see is GF seem to be the only airline in this region that care about profitability. The rest seem happy to run at a loss as long as they can bring people to their countries to spend money in their economy ie EK. Maybe Bahrain should just accept the fact that GF will never be commercially viable and if they want an airline it will have to be subsidised by the Government.

Speedbrake Lever

10th Apr 2007, 09:12

Bombay HF

You got it right !!

all the airlines do is bring people to these countries and there they spend

so the country makes money and subsidises the airline

its all in the same family

and in fact its good business because the country makes a profit

Bahrain hasn't even got a beach thats free for all

and its in the Gulf with nice warm waters

so the other Gulf Countries bring people to spend time hence money in their country

GF only transports the labour required to keep these other countries going

S.L.

Panama Jack

10th Apr 2007, 09:19

The question I ask myself, Bombay HF is whether Bahrain can afford it, and even if they do, whether it would be responsible for the Government of Bahrain to throw good money after bad into an unprofitable airline.

I don't know where you are from, but in my home country, people would be quite upset if Government wasted money on prestige projects that did not bring at least $1 return for each $1 spent. In many countries, Governments only subsidize airlines when it truly provides a good return, such as big tourist income, or because the cost of transport would be so high or unavailable that it is necessary to be able to make the country function. Bahrain is one of "poorest" countries in the region in terms of not having the size of petroleum reserves that it's neighbors did, and tourism potential, IMHO, is very limited. Even IF it did, would it be responsible governance to spend the wealth of these resources (all of which have a finite limit-- even in countries like Saudi Arabia or Qatar) on something that will give no meaningful returns-- I mean, should money be squandered on shiny jets for a big unprofitable airline, or would they be better spent on schools, hospitals, and development of emerging alternative industries with better promise? The resource wealth of a nation is also the inheritance of the future generations-- so the responsibilities are even greater-fold.

For that reason, I think it is a responsible approach being taken. Not everything has been tried yet, and IMHO, it is too early for the Bahrainis to "cry uncle" and write-off Gulf Air as a basket case. GF has potential if fixed properly-- plenty of examples of profitable airlines whose business has little to do with bringing pax or cargo to their home countries.

pullup hard

10th Apr 2007, 10:01

I am having a déjà-vu when reading all the new appointments in GF, not at good one, unfortunately:
Seems AD is bringing in all his old chaps that have failed with him in Crossair:
Bjoern Naef: ex- CRX Captain ( RJ?/ Saab340??), ex VP Product and Services after relaunch of Swiss Intl Airlines-->took his hat after 1,5 years having big difficulties in communicating with Cabin Crew Representatives and Unions. Was appointed CEO for Swiss Express a company that never flew( planned outsourcing of regîonal feeders for Swiss Air).
Did a quick Masters in the USA somewhere ( weekend course :ugh: ??) and then had 2 choices: 1 great opportunity in Asia and one not so great in Africa. Guess which one he got??YES, Africa and he seemingly never liked it there. Marhaba in GF!! Recap: fail, fail, fail!!

Lee Shave: VP Sales and Marketing in the final years of Swissair. Was involved in the Sabena- Swissair deal, I believe ex BA guy, had a good reputation. Maybe a lucky shot for GF.

And AD goes on with his bulls***ing by saying "It is in our hands". Could anyone just cut his telephone line to Switzerland, to a guy named Moritz Suter giving him advice of how to screw up companies !!!:} ????

Stratosphere6000

10th Apr 2007, 10:02

PJ totally agree with you in most of everything you have said. Nobody can point the finger at GF as it is inevitible for them to downsize and the damage has been done a very long time ago. Yes they should have never allowed themselves to reach such a situation but they have and now they have to take drastic corrective actions.They have to start from scratch. They have to take a few steps back in order to move forward. The only major concern is the redunduncies which are to follow.

Desert Diner

10th Apr 2007, 11:28

Swissair?:uhoh:

Heleheleyani

10th Apr 2007, 12:39

No offence to the sky chefs but if Gulfair is to close all of these destinations and concentrate on asian routes is there any point to keep them on board?

Desert Diner

10th Apr 2007, 12:55

More to the point, will the Sky Chefs remain on board now that Hogan is gone?

left_to_first_class

10th Apr 2007, 13:39

Look out for the EY ad for Sky Chef's and Sky Nannies - you may think I am joking but JH does a very good copy-paste.

Back to GF, next week will be the official announcement on route cuts, but it will be in the papers tomorrow:

JNB/DUB/SIN/SYD/HKG/JKT/CCU

Stratosphere6000

10th Apr 2007, 13:45

Any indications/news/info on redundencies?

jackbauer

10th Apr 2007, 13:57

It sadly sounds like a group of people who will very soon find themselves out of their depth. They have very limited experience in the type of oeration that GF is and even less dealing with the Arab way. The new VPO comes from Transafrik which is some turboprop operation and he is listed as having only 15 years experience including as pilot. Holy sh1t batman, to the batpole quick!!!!

tbaylx

10th Apr 2007, 15:20

This brings up a few interesting points for the Boeing guys in particular.

First, if I understand it there won't be any pilot layoffs due to a general shortage already. That mean all the Boeing pilots are going to have to try and find a sidestick in some plastic tonka toy jet. Is GF going to try and makes us sign bonds for the bus now, cause from my perspective that just ain't happening for me. You can train me or fire me, but no way am i signing another bond at these pay levels. If they won't put me on the bus if i don't sign another bond does that invalidate the current bond that i have left on the boeing? If so that would seem to be a good deal leaving me free to go where i chose unbonded. I suppose the other option would be to leave the current bond in place for it's duration, just switch fleet types, that would make the most sense to me.

Second are they going to adjust the pay package? Seems unlikely to me given the cost cutting measures goin on. If not, do they expect to retain flight deck?, cause no one i know can afford to hang out here at these current pay levels no matter how much they like it here. It'll be an intersting summer, hopefully i can find enough reasons to stay.

jackbauer

10th Apr 2007, 15:27

As a Boeing pilot be careful what you say right now. According to the official memo from yesterday GF is downsizing from 33 aircraft to 28 and will be an ALL airbus airline. There may be a rush of 76 guys to grab that sidestick so don't be left at the back of the Q.

FLY360

10th Apr 2007, 16:07

:ugh: Mr.hameed ali.mr.i want to be President and Chief Executive of gulf air bye bye byyyyyye.

Slats Extend

10th Apr 2007, 16:15

Maybe when Mr. Dose gets rid of the 767's he can find a few dinars to give his employees. I suppose that would be wishfull thinking, like trying to get a day pass to the beach in Varedero while staying in camp Cuba. Either they want to keep you i.e. by a civilized fleet transfer or they want you gone by shoving another training bond in your face.
Just another thought...anybody hear if they are looking for volunteer's to resign and if so would that terminate "the bond"...in shalla
tbaylx...bbq soon

tbaylx

10th Apr 2007, 17:10

Jack,

I think you're missing my point. Alot of us aren't in a rush to grab the sidestick at these pay levels. There are several airlines hiring all over this region and others at signifcantly better package levels. I like working here, but there is no way i'm signing another bond unless the pay is competitve. So i'm more than happy to stay on the Boeing while its around and then transfer the remainder of the Boeing bond over to the airbus, but i will not sign for another 3 years because they phased out the aircraft i was flying on. If that means I have to leave GF, then so be it.

Zenj

10th Apr 2007, 17:42

David Kaminski-Morrow, London (10Apr07, 09:43 GMT, 159 words)

Middle Eastern carrier Gulf Air is to begin withdrawing Boeing 767 aircraft from its fleet, cutting the fleet size from 34 to 28 aircraft, in a bid to reduce costs.
It will start removing the twin-jets from service in a shift towards establishing an all-Airbus operation. The changes will be accompanied by a strategy to lessen the time aircraft spend on the ground and a reduction in connection time for passengers.
The move is the latest in a series of cost-cutting measures being imposed by new chief executive Andre Dose who took over the airline at the beginning of April.
“At present Gulf Air is heavily losing money every day,” says Dose. “This has to stop.”
Gulf Air has nine 767-300ERs but earlier this year was forced to ground the jets temporarily for unexpected maintenance checks.
While Gulf Air has previously stated that it plans to replace the 767s, the fleet-reduction programme has not indicated any immediate renewal programme.
Source: Air Transport Intelligence news

bus787

10th Apr 2007, 17:47

Hi guys cant you see wats happening.
Gulf air is seeing people leaving so the fleet reduction is the best way out for them.
This way no need for payrise as GF will have extra crew .This will create no problem for gf if crew leave.Less salaries to pay some money from the sold 767 and Walla GF makes profit.
Mr Dose these are old tricks we all know about.
But majority of who stays around will be the unwanted from others.So much for the prime target of Safety.
Gud luck all gud job I ran away already.

wingsman

10th Apr 2007, 19:07

Speed Lever was right after all hay !!!

it was announced today phasing out will start in june to all 767 with no end date to the phasing, pilots will be transfered to A320 and A340/A330 1st group will go this month 2FO to A320 and 4CPT to A340 on seniority which a list that has not been seen around yet, i suppose friend and family 1st then the rest of the pilots.

Cheers
W.M.

ps. in other stories the are giving 400 cabin crew the sack too
:confused:

Panama Jack

10th Apr 2007, 19:30

http://www.rightnow.org/images/upl/7-Seat-Belt-Sign.jpg

ironbutt57

10th Apr 2007, 21:12

Well...tbaylx and others...ir your not willing to "grab the side stick" for this pay rate....we suggest you and others pursue other options...sure you have many offers with your vast widebody, international jet experience...to each his own...many of us, including the majority of your colleagues from former employer support the steps GF is undertaking to return to viability...just remember your options when you joined GF to begin with...Georgian B-1900 (C-208) pilot.???? If the economics dont work for you...then the options are there...apply for the job..get accepted then play your cards...to each his own..many of us here support the efforts to rebuild GF..but it is a team effort...if you're not part of the team..then let us know...we'll be happy to assist you in exercising your options...:ok:

ironbutt57

11th Apr 2007, 02:34

Geez....can u imagine "Ironbutt" with a side stick???:eek: Never say never!!!!!!:ok:

ruby tuesday

11th Apr 2007, 03:00

As Oddy mentioned GF SYD are going through recruitment currently but that said the new CEO could quite easily say to the acting GM its his job to wind things up.
Isn't it strange that the airline can be left in such dire straights - yet JH can move on to yet another high ranking posting....
In football terms its like getting relegated then becoming manager of Manchester Utd as a reward!

Bombay HF

11th Apr 2007, 04:57

GF to become an all Airbus fleet, 34 aircraft down to 28 by getting rid of NINE 767:confused: I was never that good at maths at school.

left_to_first_class

11th Apr 2007, 05:10

3 A340's to come on board to push the fleet to 28 after the 9 767's are removed.

Trader

11th Apr 2007, 05:14

Sorry Ironbutt but your example is analgous to the people who claim you cannot be against the war in Iraq and still support the troops - utter bullcrap.
You can be a team player at GF and still take issue with pay (and housing) and conditions.

This is to be confirmed but last I heard they are moving a couple 767 Fo's to the 320 and 'requiring' them to sign bonds once again. Well, I would take exception also. It is unfair. They hired the guy - if they force him let him continue his current bond.

The pay here does not meet the standards elsewhere in the Gulf (or Aisa or Europe..........). SO GF can match or people will leave. THIS IS BUSINESS!!!! In the same way that you support GF plans to be viable there should be no issue with people looking for better pay and conditions elsewhere. GF tries to make a profit and so do we as individuals. That does not make me or others lesser people, non-team players or however many other terms you would like to drag up.

Options - B1900????? Lots of others incluiding 747's in Asia, ME airlines, left seat 737 inb Canada etc etc etc.

Sitting in the left seat I think you have difficulty being objective. I have a family to support - THEY COME FIRST..everytime. The next housing increase and schooling increase freezes me out of being able to afford to live here. So I will leave. Call it what you like but in this 'new' modern world the biz people liek to talk about I'll take my personal business to where it makes sense.

Panama Jack

11th Apr 2007, 06:06

Does anybody else feel that 6 months was a little too long for no permanent PCE to be at the helm of GF?

I recall back last fall some people mused whether GF needs a PCE-- "we're doing OK without one!" Yet when I look around me, it seems that morale has severely diminished in the 6-month period, in-part do to a prolonged lack of sense of direction. Hopefully, things will get better now.

Over the last 10 days I've heard more from the new management about where the company is headed than I did over the last 6 months. I like that, and I hope Mr. Dose's "Hello Gulf Air" weekly e-mail update won't be something that will last only 6 months. I like to read mysteries, not live them. ;)

LDG NO BLUE

11th Apr 2007, 06:41

I am positively surprised about what's going on with GFA.
Drastic situation requires drastic measures.

Although it's easy for me to say, since I don't fly Boeings. But, before laying off pilots, why don't we:

1) finish all the DPI contracts? How many are they? 16?
2) retire all those who captains who were supposed to be retired.
3) ask for volunteers, and offer them to leave without paying the bond.

With the amount of resignations GFA has, I guess in 6 months you don't need to dismiss anybody.

We need a shakedown in all levels and I am waiting for:

1) Mr. T from :mad: housing to go and never return!
2) Staff travel staff to shape up or the door will be shown.

Communication:

AD came and is telling us what's going on. This is great news, open communication. Mr. Dose, I am looking forward for the roadshows that JH used to make. A channel so we can talk to you and you get to know us.

Let's wait and see. the next 6 months will tell a lot.

LNB

ODMEA

11th Apr 2007, 06:43

As a 5 yr premium pax with GF I strongly second your entry.:D I can say GF is no where near as bad as some airlines I've traveled with though. They can however take more pride in presentation. Quick turnarounds shouldn't come at the cost of a dirty cabin.:=

QR has employed "specialist cleaners" to make sure ac are cleaned to a pristine standard for EVERY flight. I have also been made aware that crew are reprimanded at the end of a flight if toilets are dirty after inspection by ground crew.:ok:

AD take note!

Oddy

ironbutt57

11th Apr 2007, 09:03

I fully agree tht family and personal needs are "top shelf" so if the GF policies or otherwise dont suit someone, then obviously one needs to pursue other avenues...but complaining or making disparaging remarks about the company on the internet does little to solve anything, and shows lack of support for your fellow team mates...positive changes are being made as we speak..and other issues will be addressed in due time...but unfortunately for us, training bonds are a fact of life here in the gulf with ALL carriers and most other places as well....dont like this one here, have a look at Singapore Airlines bond details...find a carrier in the regions you mentioned Trader without a bond...maybe they do exist...but never heard of one myself...good luck:ok:

ironbutt57

11th Apr 2007, 09:40

had to opportinity to travel on QR few times...the airplanes were in fact immaculate:ok:

tbaylx

11th Apr 2007, 10:57

Ironbutt,

I quite like working for GF, not made any negative remarks at all. AD seems to be making some positive changes and hopefully it will eventually sort out the issues here. I simply don't think its a wise move for me to sign for another 3 year bond at the current pay levels. I signed a bond when i came here and am quite prepared to fulfill it's obligations. If the company wants to fleet transfer, that's fine, but not with a new bond.

If that's the case, then i will take my "vast international wide body experience" as you so eloquently put it elsewhere.

REACH-69

11th Apr 2007, 12:56

Best move done by AD so far was kicking the VPO out of that position ,cause this was suppose to be done long time ago ,since the 072 crash.As for the fleet reduction ,all i can say who ever thinks that signing another bond is not fair in the event of changing aircraft type.........ANSWER (take it or leave it and stop pit***ng):mad: Let's move on and think positive....:ok:

Desert_Storm

11th Apr 2007, 13:06

Well buddy, the problem is not signing another training bond. Pretty shure that most of us (767 F/O's) are very concerned about being transfered to the A-320 instead of the bond. Went this morning to the 767 fleet office and Mrs. Z told me that we all will be transfered to the A-320 as F/O's but the 767 captains will go as Captains on the 330 / 340; how's that mate?
Can tell you have no problem signing a bond for the 340 or 330 but forget about in on the a-320. They'll downgrade us and on top of that want us to sign a bond? That's mental dude and please, don't tell us how hard is your life on that plane, flying 7 sectors a day with very few time away since most of us already lived that long time ago (maybe even before you started learning basic aviation). Put us on the wide body and you'll see how happy we'll be. No hard feelings man ok.

Desert_Storm

11th Apr 2007, 13:16

:\ It can be worst man! Imagine ourselves with a side stick on the "mini bus". We're going downhill, on skates and no brakes. God help us all

Capt Hair Y Balls

11th Apr 2007, 13:39

Listen matey with the f:mad: ng brown nosing ironbutt has done on this here forum I wouldnt be surprised to hear him expecting to get a direct TRE on the darn A340.

Ahhhh tis nice to dream so be my guest me baldheaded biker boy.............dream on, dream on.

jackbauer

11th Apr 2007, 13:47

Ouch!! Thats a kick in the rocks for the FO's who thought they would get a 76 command out of sequence with seniority. Now you come to 320 you will be in a very long Q for an upgrade. Previously the seniority on 767 meant you had a shorter wait for left seat, but now the system is equalised. No worries chaps it only take about 7 to 10 years from date of joining:D

Capt Hair Y Balls

11th Apr 2007, 13:57

The nerve of you young lads is just mesmerizing :D

Bombay HF

11th Apr 2007, 13:58

Good to hear that there will be no forced redundancies, been there, done that and i wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. But if i could be Devils Advocate for a minute...If this is what Flight Department is saying, has anybody asked the new boss? He seems like a hard nut and this policy would go against cost savings. I haven't reached overtime for the last seven months and if we are losing almost one third of the fleet and a HUGE amount of the route network i would imagine we will all be on 45 hours a month, just doesn't seem to fit with his stated goals of reducing losses:confused:

Desert_Storm

11th Apr 2007, 14:42

:mad: I think you are far off from what we thought when we came to GF. I never expected to get the left seat in a short period or jump all over you guys to get the left seat. The reason why I chose GF was because i had the chance to keep flying the 767 (only that) despite of the time it´d take to get the left seat. But for me, going to the minibus is not an option mate. Better you fly it and get some experience so you can even think about flying a wide body as Captain. Do you really think that with 5500 flying hours you are really ready to deal with a heavy airplane?????. wake up man, it takes a lot more than that but of course, flying in the region is not as challengin as flying in the NATS and believe me, 5500 are not enough to fly those areas.

Desert_Storm

11th Apr 2007, 14:51

And please, no hard feelings between all of us ok. We are on the same team (so far) and it´s everyones right to look for a better salary, position and even airplane. Cheers mates

Desert_Storm

11th Apr 2007, 15:02

wow. gutsy speech mate. He's not as bad as he looks mate but admit his voice tone is quite too often too hard :bored:

awss2

11th Apr 2007, 15:28

Sorry to detract from the subject , but I can only agree with you furry capt weeniemarbles, a country that drives Aborigines to extinction, has no foreign policy of its own and is afraid of the impeding invasion of the Indonesians is "civilised".

Hence probably your presence here because all the Indians are getting the jobs that you are simply not capable of doing back home.

What a man of courage you are.

Civilisation is not a property of Australia or the west but the title to describe many of the attributes that make up a culture nation etc...

Sorry had to say this one could not keep it within. Was I speaking outloud?

Civilised? Still? or barefoot pregnant and in the kitchen?

Mustapha Rex

11th Apr 2007, 15:33

Me think that capt hairy balls just had his undercarriage checked for corrosion:}

yoohoo748

11th Apr 2007, 15:39

come on guys... 320? 340? does it really matter, they both have their pros and cons. 320 looks like better for family life... home more nights (I think) but tougher pairings. 4 sectors a day? can be busy, but is not a killer unless you happen to be up a bit late the night before, More fun as far as I'm concerned; it's all about T.O. and approach, the middle bit is a bit of a yawn. 340, much more relaxed but longer pairings.... MUCH better destinations and overnights, but with 6 or more day pairings, the family life takes a bit of a beating. Either way you look at it, they both have their merrits and drawbacks too. 76 was nice, a bit inbetween the two. (just many good destinations)
A C-150 would be just fine for me if you paid me the same as a 340. Chance are I'd be home more. In the end, it's just a job. Depends where you want to end up. Long haul is not for everyone.. a puddle jumper (plastic fag jet?) will suit some people just fine.
Cheers.

ironbutt57

11th Apr 2007, 16:05

Actually I'm holding out for a Space shuttler commander position...better per deims...fewer sectors:rolleyes:

bus787

11th Apr 2007, 17:28

Rumours that ex VPo trying to go to EY same position.
he is offered Trg capt.
prob he was the one who wanted the agreement with Etihad that Gf pilots cannot go there.
he is now working hard to remove it.
Dont spit on the skies it will fall on your head..!!!

Spirit

11th Apr 2007, 19:16

Maybe AD is planning for a lot of guys to leave?

The problem is, though, that if Etihad and Air Arabia continue to offer significantly better FO-salaries than Gulf Air, and with the business picking up again in Europe and North America, and with rumours of new bonds to be imposed for transfers to A320, the new board could soon be facing a situation, where they won't have enough pilots to drive their birds.

Now THAT would be expensive!

But okay, let's wait and see, perhaps they have planned for this option as well?

Most of us Boeingdrivers came to the Gulf to fly heavyclass longhaul. Personally a jump to the A320 doesn't scare me, even if it includes a new bond, but since I would be able do the same type of job on my homecontinent (which I actually used to do), for only a little less money, but with unions (and friends and family a lot closer by), I would strongly urge Gulf Air to carefully consider their salarypolicy.

A saying like "We can do it" can only motivate a guy for a limited amount of time, money normally speak louder...

DesertHawk

11th Apr 2007, 20:40

Hairy Balls: what was that about?? Ironbutt was joking and u come in guns a blazing. also you have no idea about the guy he is WAY WAY more sensible than most of us at GF. u need to relax and be more professional

midseal

11th Apr 2007, 20:44

astro not..... butt, especially if they pay per mile flown. 2 orbits around the globe you will be retiring on touchdown.

GF in shambles gentlemen. what's the recourse for us?. Alot of people keep saying they have seen this before and there is nothing to worry about. Complacency set in amongst the folks that have been here a while. The industry has changed. Fuel (yah yah its subsidized in some form or the other) and insurance cost are not what they use to be. Furthermore the neighbouring airlines are taking advantage of the up trend in the industry. Most of them have truck loads of cash. GF wil be the small fish in a big pond in not a too distant future. If you look really hard the gold livery on GF aircrafts is actually brass, worthless in my opinion.

Dixons Cider

11th Apr 2007, 22:55

GF wil be the small fish in a big pond in not a too distant future.

ummmm......hello!!

Dixons Cider

11th Apr 2007, 23:14

Is it just me...or is there some absolute wallopers on this thread?

Can tell you have no problem signing a bond for the 340 or 330 but forget about in on the a-320. They'll downgrade us and on top of that want us to sign a bond

MikeHunt

13th Apr 2007, 04:11

11 heads are out.....

ODMEA

13th Apr 2007, 04:41

Can anyone help.

Have seen an article in Arabianbusiness.com saying GF will scrap SYD and DUB. I called GF SYD who totally denied pullout from SYD:hmm::confused:

Anyone at GF in BAH who knows what the real truth is here?:ugh:

The times they are a'changin at GF that's for sure!

ODDY:)

ironbutt57

13th Apr 2007, 04:53

It must be true....it's in the GDN:ok:

bus787

13th Apr 2007, 05:04

SYD.DUB.JNB out .Is gulfair really restructuring?Or perhaps just trying to remove all that has to do with JH.??
Seems that these flights wer doing well.
Now GF leasing 3 A340 .from THAI..Who is actually leasing old 340 s nobody.Are GF 767 that bad ?even old 340'sare better??
Have to be seen.
Prob a new Falcon soon to come.

ODMEA

13th Apr 2007, 05:17

Everyone comes on and makes statements regarding what's going but hardly any of you quote who your sources are or even if you work for GF?

any further comments bus787???:ugh:

bus787

13th Apr 2007, 05:28

read GDN online.statement from new GF Owner.
If u want more it said more news to come next week as regards job cutting.
Wats more?? ATH perhaps??Sky Chefs??
Back to the Future.4years back.

noflare

13th Apr 2007, 06:21

With all the constant chopping and changing of management and all the nepotism and corruption that has gone on over the years...a select few has destroyed what was once a great airline.

People have been appointed to positions that they were not equipped to handle, they were either well connected or were yes men for the big boys.
It really is pathetic to see all this going on and no one does anything about it simply because they know their time to feed from the golden falcon will come!

Can GF survive when Oman eventually pull out?....I fear not but for the sake of all those hard working staff I hope it all works out.
AD does not have the credentials to sort this out, his track record does not fill one with confidence....yet another bucket load of money will be wasted on the promise of a new begining...major surgery is required if this company is to survive. Bite the bullet, swallow your pride. and get a major airline management team to sort out this mess before its too late...

Good luck to you all:ok:

bus787

13th Apr 2007, 06:34

In an area where people are used to be pampered by silver ware,beds with quilts,smelly perfumes and all.Gf has to forget about making profits.
The competitors are just giving the luxury service with no profit so to survive in this market GF has to do same.Luxury suites on board gud food is wat makes the passengers around travel on GF.
Try to make the money on the people who travel on Gf while in the respective countries l.Look at DXb and Qatar and Abudhabi they serve you with all even with limo.When you in the country they rip you off with expenses.Same owner govt is still making money from the same passengers but the airline is used as a bait to take you in.
bahrain should do the same .

ironbutt57

13th Apr 2007, 06:56

Actually Bus787, your last post has some merit...unfortunately don't think GF is in the same position the other carriers are at the moment

Firbolgs

13th Apr 2007, 07:03

:D Yep quite agree noflare, the cheating, theiving and overall incompetance of Senior Management has come to a head...
Fingers crossed it can be sorted out.
The Swiss are not the ones to do it..get someone with a proven track record..but then again who would want it!:eek:

left_to_first_class

13th Apr 2007, 07:31

Sadly for GF, AD was third choice to run GF.

From what I can see and hear, the guys currently running GF (and its AD and his Roland Berger consultant friends - whom GF is paying a lot of money) are looking at flying to profitable destinations. If that is there criteria, then you might as well chop 75% of GF routes as they make no money after all the associated costs.

DUB and SYD are doing well with good load factors in ALL cabins and the summer is looking strong on these routes.

Most of the routes are going to chopped within a few months and guess what, that's the start of the peak season when most pax are paying higher than they would have during May or November.
So, even though one of the "values" from AD is Customer Service, you Mr AD are going to leave many unhappy passengers high and dry during the all important holiday period, and will they want to fly GF again, let alone recommend it to a friend ?

Oh, just to show that AD is in it for himself, like JH and those before him, ZRH will be one of the new route that will be launched.
Ok, lets assume ZRH is a good destination, how long does it take for a route to establish itself and GF as a brand becomes known ? I can tell you this that it needs at least 12 months - so much for "profitability" (another value).

Amongst all this, lets hope though that the legacy of AD will be that he got rid of some of the the deadwood and crap bahraini managers.

Desert Diner

13th Apr 2007, 10:24

SYD.DUB.JNB out .Is gulfair really restructuring?Or perhaps just trying to remove all that has to do with JH.??

My thoughts also.

From personal experience:

A R/T economy ticket BAH to LHR or DUB was has always been much higher then a R/T ticket LHR or DUB to BAH. And DUB to BKK/SIN/SYD seem to be the cheapest going.

The problem with GF is that their profit comes from conecting the Bahrain/Eastern Province expats with Europe or the Sub Continent and the European conecting traffic to SE Asia acted only as seat fillers. Unfortunately, just like with it's overbooking practice in the 90's, GF seems to have lost the plot.

Icarus

13th Apr 2007, 13:00

MikeHunt: Latest News..11 heads are out?

Is that an aggregate up to yesterday or is this an additional 11?

Desert Diner

13th Apr 2007, 13:07

Where any of these "heads" from before the JH era?

Panama Jack

13th Apr 2007, 15:24

bus787 wrote:
The competitors are just giving the luxury service with no profit so to survive in this market GF has to do same.

Huh?!?!? To survive Gulf Air must do business with no profit expectations?!?!? :confused:

That sounds to me like going to work as a hobby.

Oh man! Air Arabia and Jazeera Airways must be doomed!

Stratosphere6000

13th Apr 2007, 17:03

Well PJ not that I don't understand what you're saying, but I'm sure some will be considering working for GF as a hobby since there are not many expectations one can have with the airline for a long time to come. Those of you who believe the airline will prosper soon are living on Mars. Thing is you may never know. I personally think it will, but it will take at least 5yrs to start coming right. Slightly too long for the young and ambitious I would say. Especially when there are no guarantees. I feel sorry for all those F/O's who's dream of oneday becoming a commander have been totally thrown out of the window. I feel more for those experienced 767 F/O's who will be taking many steps back in their careers by going onto the 320 and signing bonds. The commanders will be happy. Most will take it as a new challenge going DEC on a 330/340....wonder what they would say if it were DEC 320????but then again when your options are limited you tend to take what you get right?

Spirit

13th Apr 2007, 18:00

Let's just hold our horses a little, gentlemen...

Before we allow all of this to run out of hand, why don't we wait and see, just how many soon-to-be-ex-767 FO's are actually going to sign the trainingbond for the 320.

If you consider the published fact, that easyJet will bond you for 3 years on £17000, approx. €25000, then it is very difficult not to smile at Gulf Air's ditto. We are talking 23000 Bahraini Dinars, which equals almost €46000.

I do know, that I was conditionally positive about signing a new bond in a previous post of mine, but after having given it ample consideration, I suspect, someone in the Pink Palace must have left his sense of reality on the planet of Melmac.

And then again, in the best traditions of CRM, I share the question with you, gentlemen:
Is there actually something utterly wrong here...or do I just have s#*t for brains?

Bombay HF

13th Apr 2007, 18:19

We're not talking about the real world here where an airline must be profitable or go under, where an airline will grow to the size that the market dictates. This is the Gulf. This is where three tiny countries, in terms of population, will have 350+ widebodied aircraft between them. Why? Because their governments have said it will be so! Are they profitable? I very much doubt it. Do they care? Probably not. If Bahrain insists that GF must be commercialy viable when no other carrier around here has to be then fine. But if they want to play by those rules then GF should be allowed to fail and close down instead of being drip fed on a life support machine. This is what normaly happens outside this region, sink or swim and let the market decide. I don't think you can compare a National carrier to the likes of Arabia and Jazeera. If GF decided to become a small A320 operater just flogging around the Gulf and the Sub Continent with similar conditions i am sure it would be successful also. Maybe GF should think about doing that anyway.

BTW...My training bond for the 330/340 was ONLY:eek: 14,500 BD, are you sure the 320 is alkmost double that?:confused:

Spirit

13th Apr 2007, 18:49

Last I heard, but of course I might have to stand corrected on this issue...:\

gimmesumvalium

13th Apr 2007, 19:59

This thread is so f**king confused that I wish to make the following points b4 i am swamped:
1. If you are redundant, you are out of a job - NO FURLOUGH!
2. If you got a 767 rating after a light turbo-prop, what are you complaining about?
3. If you thought you were getting a command OUT of seniority, and it does not happen, thaen how can you be disappointed?
The 767 guys had expectacions that were not realistic, and would only continue while VPO (Hameed Ali) was ignoring policy in OMA and Fleet Transfer Seniority. Unfortuneately, this is now catching up with everyody.

Standing by for arrows in my back!!

Newbie30

13th Apr 2007, 21:36

Anyone knows whats going to happen to the 6 Second Officers who are currently doing their 767 rating course ?

Speedbrake Lever

13th Apr 2007, 22:00

Newbie

Not sure and maybe they themselves aren't either

but at least they're able to witness from the start just how badly

run GF is

and not just from the Top, incompetence is rife in this outfit

sad , some nice people here

Beam me up Scotty

S.L.

SAD IN QAC

14th Apr 2007, 02:58

Yeah! Yeah! Yeah!...

Bla Bla Bla Bla

SAD IN QAC

14th Apr 2007, 03:06

why they gona close sin,jhb,syd, and the others ??? dubin is full goin flight ,, singapore ... also good business .. and pilots like it there lol ...

no idiea what those idiots are doin ...

have a nice day all :D

bus787

14th Apr 2007, 03:09

Panama Jazeera and Arabia are not Flag carriers but low COst Airline.
Do you really see Gulf air as low Cost.No Fortuantly GF compares with EK EY QR.(Although aircraft bit older).None of this airlines make money.Dontforget the owner of GF is the Govt.what he is loosing in GF he gains on Boose fromGulf Cellars from Trader vics from hotel rental.
Gf should be a first Class airline with true Arabian Hospitality onboard to get people to this small Island to purchase property etc.
This is not a aplace wer people have to travel around like europe on planes .that is wer low cost airlines work cause airlines are like an airborne taxi service.
People here dont even travel inthe car if it doesnt have leather seats.

commander38t

14th Apr 2007, 07:21

Please remember this company underpays ALL its staff

This is not true. :=

VPs are getting much more than what they deserve. :*

tbaylx

14th Apr 2007, 07:52

This thread is so f**king confused that I wish to make the following points b4 i am swamped:
1. If you are redundant, you are out of a job - NO FURLOUGH!
Sounds fine to me, then please give me my 3 months notice or pay in lieu and release me from my bond asap.
2. If you got a 767 rating after a light turbo-prop, what are you complaining about?
I don't think anyone on the 767 came off a light turboprop. Most of us came off MD83 from the left seat. At the time (our company went bankrupt) GF was a good option.
3. If you thought you were getting a command OUT of seniority, and it does not happen, thaen how can you be disappointed?
The company sets the policies, and they were upgrading by seniority within the fleet, not overall. It was reasonable to expect an upgrade by seniority by fleet type, and that it would be quicker on the Boeing. Now that we're all on the same fleet it evens the playing field and upgrades by seniority. Fair? yes, but it does extend the time to command for everyone, not just the boeing guys.
The 767 guys had expectacions that were not realistic, and would only continue while VPO (Hameed Ali) was ignoring policy in OMA and Fleet Transfer Seniority. Unfortuneately, this is now catching up with everyody.
Not really. The upgrades were by seniority within the fleets and that's what we expected. Now the situation has changed. I can live with that it's fair. The two issues i think most of us have are
1- We're now 40-60% underpaid compared to most airlines in the region. I have a hard time with that one.
2- GF wants me to sign another bond for 23000 BHD and 3 years at those pay levels because they phased out the aircraft i was flying and want to train me on another.Standing by for arrows in my back!!
I know, not a team player, if i don't like it leave blah blah blah..that's probably what alot of us will do though.

point8four

14th Apr 2007, 11:08

Exactly right Tbay...
If I had come off a turbo-prop, fair enough turn the page and let's see what happens next.
I'm not Canadian, but I came from the left seat of an MD too, with reasonable expectations based on the information provided by the recruiting team. (Mistake 1)
That combined with direct access to my home base, (which is one of the axed destinations) made for a pretty decent potential existance.
Salary- not fantastic, but with the per diums - we can do it. (Mistake 4173)
Now we don't earn near the numbers discussed a while back.
Now the rest of the "gulf majors" are offering far more attractive salaries in an effort to retain crew.
Can't see an increase on the horizon under present circumstances. Unless they retrench half the redundant staff in HO and distribute the salaries amongst the flight crew....hmmm there's an idea.
It seems the threat of crew leaving has no impact on the management - Bond another thousand lads, the queue is out the door and round the corner, or shake a tree- bound to be suitable chaps up there. The training department can handle it. Oh and the summer schedule is upon us too.
Not anymore amigo that dhow has set sail for calmer waters.
Its early days yet, but the prognosis - she don't look too good cousin!
The concept of "don't like, leave" is also wearing thin. The realistic issue is you cannot afford to lose experienced staff right now or them glass sliding doors are going to seize closed. Address the issues GF, the clock is ticking.

tbaylx

14th Apr 2007, 12:27

Part of the issue is that the "threat" of crew leaving dosen't actually show up in pilot numbers till 6 months or so down the road. First a given pilot has to get pissed off enough to leave, then he has to figure out where to go, then apply, get interviewed, get hired, give notice etc etc. It takes months from the time a guy first decides to leave until he's actually gone. So all the stuff that is happening now won't show up in recruitment till the fall or mid summer or so. Then it also has to be in sufficent numbers for it to be noticed (one or two guys leaving can be replaced fairly easily).
Eventually it will catch up with the training department though and the guys in rostering are going to have their hands full figuring out how to crew the aircraft.
Hopefully sometime before then it gets noticed and the package gets adjusted so it's competitve and they do the fair thing with the bonds and just transfer the existing bonds over to the new fleet for the Boeing guys instead of asking for new ones. Maybe some guys will stick around then, as it's actually a nice place to live and the guys you fly with are usually great.

ironbutt57

14th Apr 2007, 16:56

Well all there is left to say is..the audience is waiting, the curtains have been drawn, but the fat lady hasn't started singing yet..and as we all know..."it's not over until the fat lady sings"..(hope I dont draw that straw)

2lowgear

14th Apr 2007, 19:43

The only thing some of us had going for us was the prospect for command in the relative near future. Since that doen't exist anymore, there is absolutely no reason for me to stick around. I'm just hoping I'll land a job before I'm cornered into signing a bond.

MikeHunt

14th Apr 2007, 19:44

Well you have not drawn a string but certainly kept the thread going, and the fat lady will sing, indeed.

This said, there is no point in her singing if it is only to repeat the past, everyone has heard that farting tune, few are interested and it would certainly mean the demise of GF.

What most would like to see, is that nespotism and despotism cease, Bahrainis, Omanis and in recent years expats have been more than just guilty of it, and they have basked in pool of vermine only of their own making; and it is still going on! That theft and corruption are handled in the most appropriate of manners and that precedents for once are made ton clear the road to a brighter future. AD does not have to look to far...it is right under his nose...

If anything, and in the ears of the general public and consumers alike, it isn't about making noise, but about singing, one of those tunes not in the glory of management but in the glory of those who wish to make a difference, take the right steps to make it happen and see their ambitions to change practices fulfilled, finally, so that the past does not repeat itself.

And so Mr. Hemingway, are you....feeling better?

Stay tuned, prozac is on next week!

Fay Jinah

15th Apr 2007, 03:02

What is current bond for Type rated F/O's?

ironbutt57

15th Apr 2007, 05:28

None that joined in my class were bonded, as we were typed and current (6months) on type....not sure if there is a bond if you are typed and at least current within 6 months...

Panama Jack

15th Apr 2007, 16:20

It seems that within the last few days a lot of Cabin Crew have started wringing their hands in response to rumors of a significant cabin crew cut-back-- how many, when, who and how?

I haven't seen anything official-- just heard rumors. Anybody heard anything more solid?

ironbutt57

15th Apr 2007, 16:33

Heard that rumour as well...no numbers...with an average of 25+ resigning per month anyway..I cannot see that happening, but I dont have the whole picture available to me...who knows...watch and wait..interesting summer ahead...not time for the fat lady just yet:=

Bombay HF

15th Apr 2007, 16:44

Flew with a fairly senior Bahraini CSM yesterday, he claims the office has said up to 400 cabin crew to get fired.

ironbutt57

15th Apr 2007, 16:55

by the time the 767 is phased out as per recent rumours, we will have lost that and more due attrition...:confused:

Panama Jack

15th Apr 2007, 17:01

My thoughts exactly, ironbutt57, with the amount of regular turnover in the Cabin Crew ranks, I was thinking a temporary hiring freeze would almost definately take care of numbers themselves, unless management also sees this as an opportunity for a "weeding-out" process in the staff ranks. :confused:

Bombay HF

15th Apr 2007, 17:03

How many 767 pilots are there? and how many of those are ex pats?

tbaylx

15th Apr 2007, 22:45

9 aircraft with about 10 crew/aircraft...i'd guess about 90. Rough guess would be 75% or slightly more expats.

B7,etc

16th Apr 2007, 05:03

About 115 pilots in the 76 fleet. They claim they will need about 75 for the bus. "Counting on resignation" for the balance...
It's time to update your CV's guys..!

Now EY intends to compete on the narrow body network. Heard they want a fleet of either 73 or A320...
Food 4 thought

REACH-69

16th Apr 2007, 05:16

Is the ban lifted ,cause i just heard an ex-76 GF pilot has joined EY recently and he is hired on the 330 right seat (don't know if this info is valid):confused:

airgeo

16th Apr 2007, 05:23

They are phacing of 767.But next order not yet confirmed:D

B7,etc

16th Apr 2007, 05:50

Reach,
the ban is not lifted as per now. The guy you are refering to had given his resignation before ....and then eventualy got hired with a release letter...!
Anyway it also came to me that EY is not taking anyone on 77 at the moment...Got to apply on the bus I guess..And that's only when the pressure on JH to lift the ban will produce its effect..

LDG NO BLUE

16th Apr 2007, 07:53

If GF pilots are to be made redundant, the only decent thing would be to lift the ban with EY. Good for both companies.

AD dissmissed a huge amount of pilots from SWISS some time ago and today they have grounded planes due to lack of crews. Go figure....:ugh:

It's still to early to make any conclusions. This is like a chess game where your oponent moves 1 piece and you cannot judge his game yet. The only thing with GF is that the Rooks, the Knights and the Quenn have been moved before the Pawns!

LNB

bird dog

16th Apr 2007, 18:45

Just for curiosity...

Less than 1 year ago GF hired DECs for 767. The excuse for bad planning was, as usual, that they couldnt upgrade cause they were short of FO to crew the planes, BUT IT WAS ONLY FOR 1 YEAR CONTRACT. Speaking with one of then, he told me his contract is not for one year but open as everybody else. Now I am very curious to see what will happen to then since they are not type rated in the 320/330/340 unlike many experience FOs that they have bypassed once. Will they bypass us again?

Firbolgs

16th Apr 2007, 20:47

The workers are worrying about their future whilst the leaders (some ex) are trying to get into EY under the radar....beware guys...
VPO & Flt Mgrs looking for a backdoor into EY....
:mad:

bus787

17th Apr 2007, 04:16

I wrote this some days ago.
VPO facing a problem of going to ey becasue of ban he did himself.
Shortly will be removed cause he is Going.
No managment post offered to any from Gf.maximimu TRI.
this will open doors for guys who want to go ban will be lifted.
Prob for 767 guys.They only need bus drivers hehe..

bus787

17th Apr 2007, 04:22

The new CEO is going inline with european business,
Same with Swiss downsize send people away(including Pilots) forget payrise,reduce service(skychefs,nannies) reduce routes and make profit.
This will never work here.
The airlines in middle east fly everywhere to get as much passengers in transit to the far east australia and so on.
Gf will not make profit from passengers visiting bahrain..(3 star 4 star hotels no entertainment no alcohol).look at all others they started a hub system Dubai Qatar .than improved their country for visitiors and business.
Bahrain wake up.Move forward dont make too much steps backward.
Might fall..!!

Desert Diner

17th Apr 2007, 04:28

The airlines in middle east fly everywhere to get as much passengers in transit to the far east australia and so on.

This is were GF is not making a profit.

ODMEA

17th Apr 2007, 05:47

BAH DOES have 5 star hotels
BAH DOES allow alcohol
BAH is investing in development
BAH is one of the friendliest of all GCC cities
BAH is one of the nicest GCC cities to live in

Bus787 where do you get your information from both on Gulf Air and what will happen and Bahrain- I would strongly suggest you revisit your source/s:confused:

:ugh:

E Tops

17th Apr 2007, 07:01

ODMEA, I think that what Bus 787 is getting at, is maybe that there are 'NO' 3 or 4 star hotels in Bahrain that will have Live Entertainment or Alcohol shortly!!! After all, your average tourist does not stay in a 5 star hotel, unless you are referring to your average tourists as F1 drivers. As a frequent visitor from Over the Bridge, the new government in Bahrain do tend to be doing their utmost to turn it into a place that is not very friendly towards Ex-Pats

Desert_Storm

17th Apr 2007, 07:56

ODMEA; the problem is that you are taking this comments as a personal offence but reality shows that Bahrain lacks of a lot of the above mentioned. No doubt you are a local guy but i'll try to show you the expat point of view in order to help you visualize the real situation in Bahrain:
As an expat, if i look for a possible destination for a holiday, I'm pretty sure Bahrain wouldn't be in my plans since there is absolutely NOTHING to see or do here: No real resorts and I don't mean the 5 star hotel that you have in here loaded with fat guys, smoking sheesha watching a bunch of Eastern Europe hookers dance half naked but real resorts like the ones we have in Europe or America, with activities and attractions for the whole family 24/7.
About where to go in the city (Bahrain), well my friend, the options are very few: BJ's, JJ's, Wranglers and lately Z club; Shame S*+&..t, different places (the difference is that BJ's and JJ's are loaded with drunk american navy guys trying to score and Likwid and Club 7 loaded with local with the same intentions).
About city tourism, well, don't think anyone is going to pay any money to come here and see the Pearl Roundabout, Seef Mall and the Tree of life!!!!!!
C'mon ODMEA, all you local guys have to face that this place is just a small island with nothing to offer for the tourist man.
To top this up, do you realize that there are only 22 countries in the world that can get the tourist visa at the airport????? The other countries have to apply for a business visa but through a hotel, and not always this is possible because many times, this hotels get very difficult (don't forget that the only embassy that Bahrain has is located in Washington D.C so believe me that nobody is going to go there in order to get a visa for a place that has nothing to offer).
Well, i'm pretty sure that i am forgeting a lot of reasons for not coming here but i'm aware that you'll start throwing arrows against me, then, i'll have the chance to give you more examples of this. Cheers mate! :E

Desert_Storm

17th Apr 2007, 08:21

:\ I was offered the A-320 conversion course to be started last sunday. Went to fleet office to find out, talked for a few minutes with the coordinator and haven´t heard anything ever since. Any of you guys have any information about this course? Did it started? who were the "two lucky F/O" who started this conversion?. Cheers!

Desert_Storm

17th Apr 2007, 08:39

Well, I've experienced this situation b4 and based on that, and only on that, can tell you that this is a normal cicle in every company. My previous one, downsized on 2004 and now, they order 10 B-787's, opened new routes to Europe, already brought new F-100 and some extra MD-83, and B-767 to complement the actual route structure. Totally agree that we can't let complacency to overtake us but let's give Mr. AD a chance (let's say 100 days, the famous 100 days) to see what happens ok? Then, after this time period, we can start taking conclusions and maybe, start applying for other companies; meanwhile, strongly suggest to keep a very, very low profile just in case mate.
Tail wind on CRZ!:ok:

Desert_Storm

17th Apr 2007, 08:56

By the way, wondering how many will miss so much CGK and the famous massages of the Ciputra Hotel (well, some got nice massages outside the hotel as well). :O :O :O

Desert_Storm

17th Apr 2007, 09:24

Not only immaculate but the quality of the service is amazing. On top of that, it's a lot cheaper for us to go to europe with QR rather than GF "our own company". This is unbelievable. MAD-DOH-BAH-DOH-MAD for 44 bd (taxes inclusive). With GF BAH-LHR around 70 bd (roung trip ID-90 SA). How's that????????

LDG NO BLUE

17th Apr 2007, 09:30

The "fat lady" has entered the stage!
Check your webmails.

Desert_Storm

17th Apr 2007, 09:38

Just checked it. Nothing new (last e-mail from 14/03/2007). Can you tell us what you've seen? Cheers mate!:rolleyes:

tbaylx

17th Apr 2007, 09:46

It's a press release that is going out today. Nothing earth shattering. Lots of cuts in long haul routes (Dublin, Jakarta, Hong Kong, Sydney, Joburg etc) to refocus on inter gulf network. Down to 28 aircraft, refit of interiors, 4 A321 joining the fleet, some 340 replacements with 330's, all Boeings going away and lots of staff cutbacks to come (majority they are trying to do through attrition). That's about it, about what is being expected.

That being said it's nice to see it before i read it in the GDN for once, at least Mr. Dose is much better with corporate communication than i've seen prior to him.

Desert_Storm

17th Apr 2007, 09:59

any cutback on 767 pilots? :\

parabellum

17th Apr 2007, 10:37

Well this part of your post is true Midseal:

"and insurance cost are not what they use to be"

The aviation insurance market is well over subscribed with underwriters and rates have never been cheaper.

parabellum

17th Apr 2007, 10:49

Gulf Air is taking steps to make itself viable within it's available market. Bahrain does not have an inexhaustible supple of money like the UAE, Qatar and to a lesser extent, The Oman, so it cannot compete and has to make the best of it's current situation.
I can remember when Gulf Aviation, as it was then, was run by Alan Bodger and had the monopoly all around the Gulf, now, facing stiff competition from much richer neighbours, they are having to cut their cloth according to their means.
Bahrain itself is not a final tourist destination but if sensible heads got together it could form part of a Gulf tour with a visit to Iski in the Oman, possibly Jebel Akdhar as well, some gambling in Dubai, Al Alain and so on.
If your idea of a holiday is all about clubs and bars then I would agree that the Middle East is not the ideal option but the Gulf does have a lot to offer a tourist with slightly more aesthetic tastes and an interest in history etc. etc. or simply someone who likes the sun!;)

tbaylx

17th Apr 2007, 11:09

From what i've heard there won't be any, we have too many with the fleet reduction, but they are figuring (correctly so) that a bunch of us will quit, so that will take care of any excesses.

Qatar ATC

17th Apr 2007, 11:23

Hi guys,

I have an exclusive access to the press release ( Powerpoint )

It's avilable through :

http://www.sharebigfile.com/file/145360/A--Dose-GF-restructure-160407-final-ppt.html

and

ttp://www.sharebigfile.com/file/145360/A--Dose-GF-restructure-160407-final-ppt.html (http://www.sharebigfile.com/file/145360/A--Dose-GF-restructure-160407-final-ppt.html)

EXCLUSIVE

Desert Diner

17th Apr 2007, 11:54

don't forget that the only embassy that Bahrain has is located in Washington D.C

Are you sure about that?:confused:

There also seems to be a lot of confussion here as to whether Bahrain is a tourist destination. Yes but only for those of us across the causeway and for the family members visiting the Navy guys.

Bahrain is a Business destination! You would be suprised as to who inhabits those tall buildings.

Becassine

17th Apr 2007, 12:19

I totally agree with Desert Storm.
Unless you enjoy being ripped off by lazy taxi drivers, and risking being killed by a drunk Saudi driver everytime you get in a car, Bahrain is definitely NOT a holiday destination.

BahrainLad

17th Apr 2007, 12:33

Interesting...swapping A340s for A330-300s...where will these come from? More importantly, where will they come from equipped with Rollers?

bus787

17th Apr 2007, 13:54

Odmea dont take what I write personally just give valid reasons why I could be wrong.
Singapore is a small island as Bahrain but they managed.
If Bahrain wants to go against most of GCC countries by going west towards the Saudi its good for them but I cannot see how they can be right.
What I meant is that by taking people with proper connection to the countries where the western people can enjoy themselves it will be viable.
Maldives is a muslim country no alcohol allowed to be imported but when people are there you find all you need .
Family tourism doesnt mean to cater only for children.men are tourists as well.

boiler

17th Apr 2007, 16:29

There are numerous errors in his fleet slide. Such as GF has currently 6 A330-300. There is also no mention of the GF SQ aircraft (with 249 seat capacity I believe). I hope all his other info is more accurate.

Qatar ATC

17th Apr 2007, 16:45

It was a mistake haha.

Gulf Air made a "Typing mistake" :}

I checked with a spokesman :

It's 0 and now they are about to order 6 within 2 years. :ugh:

ironbutt57

17th Apr 2007, 23:15

Well....the fat lady is singing loud and long....the previous bunch did a lot of positive things to bring GF into a good light, and improve it's image, unfortunately the house was repainted, but the termites in the foundation were not exterminated....looks like the exterminators are here to fix the foundation, only then will the house be rebuilt, on a solid foundation..ensuring it's survival....it's about time...this from one who might be out the door with cutbacks..but it had to happen....and yes the staff travel issue which I would have thought to be secondary issue, was addressed to resounding applause...so they do realize that morale does make an airline work....lets wish them all the success...and personally hope I survive the retrenchment to enjoy the success:ok: ...now I sit back and enjoy the fat lady's song...but I wont be inviting her home..(she looks too much like me):} and for those of you who think GF should follow suit with the other carriers here and be unprofitable just to be posh and save face....maybe WE are the trendsetters the others will be forced to follow at a future date...who can tell...times are a changin' here in the gulf..

Panama Jack

18th Apr 2007, 02:46

Well said ironbutt.

The press release and figures cited by Mr. Dosé yesterday are quite revealing (if not nauseating).

Over the last few weeks on these merged threads, there have been a number of comments and attitudes expressed that can be summed up as "if Bahrain wants and airline, it just needs to get to grips that reality that it will never be profitable and cost lots of money. While at it, make it plush."

I believe Bahrain has made a decision in that regard. It doesn't want an airline. At least not at this high cost. With losses in excess of $1 million US per day, who would? It only makes my mind run wild what airlines like Qatar Airways and Etihad (amongst others) are costing the citizens of their countries on a daily basis. :uhoh:

Those who believe that a good representation of Bahrain is the Grand Prix, the World Trade Center, the Financial Harbor, BMW's, Amwaj Islands, and Durrat al-Bahrain, should take a drive out into some of the other parts of Bahrain to take a look at how many Bahrainis live. These are the people who drive 1980's model cars and live in conditions that make GF cabin crew housing look luxurious. Bahrani public clinics are nothing pretty either. Even a fraction of the $1 million plus dollars that GF burns up daily would do so much to improve the situation of infrastructure, health care and education in Bahrain.

The Bahraini shareholders seemingly have decided enough is enough. They don't need the airline, not at this cost. However, with so much already sunk into it, why not give it a last-chance to become successful? That is what Dosé is now trying to accomplish with what seemingly (and hopefully) is the shareholders full support.

If unsuccessful, from reading the headlines, Bahrainis will be able to work for and travel with Air Asia's Middle Eastern subsiduary which is thinking about setting up shop in OBBI. In that case, even the Company's red and white colors will combine well with Bahrain.

Airline plans Bahrain Hub (http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/1yr_arc_Articles.asp?Article=179309&Sn=BNEW&IssueID=30027&date=4/16/2007)

bus787

18th Apr 2007, 04:39

Panama 4000 of those driving 1980 cars work with GF..wat will happen now.Wait and see or look at Swiss History.

keep_smiling

18th Apr 2007, 05:49

By A Staff Reporter
MUSCAT — Gulf Air, the national carrier of Oman and Bahrain, yesterday unveiled a major programme to turn the company around and to get it well again. The plan consists of two pillars to completely reshape the network to better serve the needs of the Oman and Bahrain economies and, to improve customer service through higher punctuality, better reliability and lower connection times. This will require investments in aircraft and ground facilities. The total cost of the programme is $825 million, say company officials.

Gulf Air Board of Directors Deputy Chairman Mahmood al Kooheji announced yesterday that the airline’s operation was currently losing more than 1 million dollars a day and including other costs such as financing ‘the figure would even be substantially higher.’ Accumulated losses and costs, including 2007, would amount to $675 million. “Gulf Air plays an important role in the economic development of Bahrain and Oman. But to do this effectively the airline has to be financially sound, efficient and fully focused on the needs of its customers,” said Al Kooheji at a press conference yesterday, at the company’s headquarters in Muharraq.

“At this critical juncture, we have looked at ways in which the fleet and resources can be used in the most effective way to ensure customers are served effectively, while maintaining operations on a commercial basis. “Together with the airline’s new President and Chief Executive André Dosé, who joined Gulf Air at the beginning of April, the Board of Directors has, therefore, developed a far-reaching, two-step programme to ‘get Gulf Air well again’.” Under the first part of the programme that will cost $319 million, Gulf Air will undergo a major restructuring of its operations.

The focus is on closing the airline’s current profitability gap of $414 million, creating a network that serves better the needs of the Oman and Bahrain business community and, increasing Gulf Air’s customer service level. “The main goal of our restructuring and customer service programme is to increase flight frequencies to existing key destinations and to add new connections to major economic centres that are of growing importance for the economy of Bahrain and Oman,” said Dosé. “At the same time, Gulf Air’s new management will put great emphasis to improve punctuality, reliability and lower connection time for our passengers between their flights.

“We have made safety, punctuality and customer service the key issues of our restructuring programme because we are not satisfied with our current service level. Also, we have to improve the way we communicate with customers when delays do occur.” To achieve its financial and operational goals, Gulf Air will downsize its fleet from 34 to 28 aircraft. In line with its goal to radically simplify the business, the company will move to an all-Airbus fleet. In parallel, the network will be fundamentally restructured.

“We will stop operating to our heavily loss-making long-haul services to Dublin, Hong Kong, Jakarta, Johannesburg, Sydney and Singapore. Instead, we will allocate more assets to better serve all important centres in the Gulf and the Middle Eastern region,” added Dosé. “It is our goal to offer each centre in the region at least two flights per day, and often more. The introduction of a ‘wave structure’ of inbound and outbound flights will also allow us shorter connection time and insure better connectivity with our Asian and European long-haul flights.”

The second pillar of Gulf Air’s “get well” programme consists of investments of $505 million to improve the quality of its product on the ground and in the air. The airline intends to refurbish the cabins of its existing Airbus aircraft. In addition, ground facilities, such as lounges, will be upgraded. The fleet simplification will involve the introduction of four Airbus A-321 aircraft, the retirement of the entire Boeing B-767 fleet and the phasing out of the Gulf Traveller brand. Gulf Air will also replace part of its Airbus A-340 fleet by five newer Airbus A-330 aircraft. It would take until the beginning of 2009 to complete the fleet replacement and restructuring programme, said Dosé.

Parallel to the downsizing of its fleet by roughly 25 per cent, Gulf Air’s workforce will have to be reduced, also. Currently, the airline has nearly 6,000 employees. The exact number of jobs that will be cut as a result of the downsizing and restructuring of the company still has to be defined. A portion of the downsizing of the workforce will occur through natural attrition.

http://www.omanobserver.com/images/Observer-Logo1.gif

ODMEA

18th Apr 2007, 06:05

What the f:oh: was JH doing these last 3 years?:confused:

He should be held accountable in some way. If AD has gained the boards approval to take such drastic measures why couldn't JH have done the same with all his seeming business prowess seeing the state of GF?:hmm:

I note that many of you keep wishing GF luck with AD because of not such a rosy history with SWISS. I dare say it's high time GF'ers start wishing EY luck with JH seeing the mess he has left GF in.:sad:

Oddy

BahrainLad

18th Apr 2007, 07:05

Quite. What was that headline in the GDN oh so short a time ago?

"JOB DONE!"

What a load of bollox.

Come in EY, your time is up!

Zenj

18th Apr 2007, 07:37

Gulf Air to reduce fleet and drop six destinations
By Habib Toumi, Bureau chief

Manama: Gulf Air, the national carrier of Bahrain and Oman, is dropping six destinations and opting for an all Airbus fleet as the ailing company launches an aggressive programme to reverse daily losses of $1 million.

"The network will be fundamentally restructured," president and chief executive Andre Dos© said.

"We will stop operating our heavily loss-making long-haul services to Dublin, Hong Kong, Jakarta, Johannesburg, Sydney and Singapore. Instead, we will allocate more assets to better serve all important centres in the Gulf and the Middle Eastern region," he added.

The company will also reduce its fleet from 34 to 28 aircraft, taking out in the process the entire Boeing B-767 fleet (nine aircraft) and phasing out the Gulf Traveller brand, and replacing their nine A340s with four A321s, two 215-seat A330s and six 293-seat A330s.

But Dos©, a Swiss citizen who took over this month, told Gulf News that the decision to have an all-Airbus fleet was purely technical and practical as the company's fleet before the structure plan consisted of 25 Airbus and nine Boeing aircraft. "This decision is also in line with our goal to radically simplify the business," he said.

Mahmood Al Kooheji, Gulf Air board of directors deputy chairman, said the overall restructuring, at a cost of 310 million Bahraini dinars ($825 million), consisted of a complete reshape of the network and improvement of customer service through higher punctuality, better reliability and lower connection times, and of investments of 190 million dinars ($505 million) from shareholders and financial institutions to improve quality.

Massive losses

"The airline's operation is currently losing more than $1 million a day and the figure would even be substantially higher if we include other costs such as financing.

Accumulated losses and costs, including 2007, would amount to 254 million dinars ($675 million)," he said.

Under the first part of the programme, at a cost of 120 million dinars ($319 million), Gulf Air will seek to close its current profitability gap of 156 million dinars ($414 million).

The fleet replacement and restructuring programme is expected to be completed in the beginning of 2009.

Desert Diner

18th Apr 2007, 07:41

The focus is on closing the airline’s current profitability gap of $414 million :eek:

What in the world was happening over there?

bus787

18th Apr 2007, 08:53

Amazing !!AD telling you i will kick you out.and you still Clap.
read Arabic news paper.25% of GF work force will be sacked mainly Foreigners from Flight Operations Department ie 1500 jobs .
PIlots wake up .Start Searching.Bahrainisation is the only aim.
IF GF managment have the GUTS they should release the Ban to ETIHAD .Than you will see who will be left flying the new 330.s in GF.
GUD I saw it coming before.

sue pralux

18th Apr 2007, 09:33

Bus 787, I agree, everyones job is on the line, but you have to admit, it is a real refreshing experience, being told what the state of the nation really is, and what is going to be done to address the issues at hand. On a side issue, has anyone seen the ETIHAD web site recently? Looks like JH took GF's web site with him on a CD when he went. Also he is very, very low profile at ETIHAD. That must really be hurting his Ego!!!!

Dixons Cider

18th Apr 2007, 09:50

Ironbutt
....and yes the staff travel issue which I would have thought to be secondary issue, was addressed to resounding applause...

What was the word on this one butt? Haven't seen mention of it anywhere else

ironbutt57

18th Apr 2007, 10:54

overhauled from the top down:ok:

Zenj

18th Apr 2007, 12:15

Gulf Air confirms plan for Bahrain to take control
David Kaminski-Morrow, London (18Apr07, 08:26 GMT, 276 words)
Middle Eastern carrier Gulf Air’s investment programme will be driven by Bahrain’s Government, which is taking an 80% share of the airline’s ownership.
The carrier, previously owned equally by Bahrain and Oman, is planning to invest at least BD310 million ($822 million) in a programme to reverse heavy losses and return it to profitability.
There have been suggestions that Gulf Air’s ownership would change with any capital injection, and a spokeswoman for the carrier says the airline’s senior executives are now openly referring to Gulf Air as being an 80:20 company with Bahrain the larger partner.
Gulf Air has been turning in a poor financial performance for several years. It achieved a marginal profit in 2004 under a restructuring plan implemented by then-CEO James Hogan but subsequently turned in a BD85.5 million loss the following year.
In 2006 this deepened to nearly BD130 million, against a budgeted profit of BD26 million, and the airline recorded a 4% fall in passenger numbers.
New chief Andre Dose says that the situation at Gulf Air is “more dramatic” than he had expected, and that the airline’s financial situation is “critical”.
Gulf Air’s restructuring programme, which focuses on 12 main areas, aims to cut costs by BD66 million, through such measures as simplifying and reducing the fleet and axing jobs, and generate an extra BD90 million in revenues through improved sales and network refinements.
Dose says this will close a “profitability gap” of BD156 million.
Initial effects from the restructuring will become visible in the next three to nine months, he says, while other longer-term initiatives – such as the fleet revamp – will take up to three years to implement completely.
Source: Air Transport Intelligence news

========================================

Gulf Air overhaul to slash long-haul routes and axe jobs
David Kaminski-Morrow, London (17Apr07, 13:22 GMT, 287 words)
Middle Eastern carrier Gulf Air has given further details of its new BD310 million ($822 million) two-part restructuring programme, warning that achieving profitability will mean slashing long-haul routes and sacrificing jobs.
Gulf Air admits that it is losing more than $1 million per day and that its “profitability gap” amounts to BD156 million.
It is to axe its loss-making long-haul operations to Hong Kong, Sydney, Singapore, Johannesburg, Jakarta and Dublin in order to concentrate instead on the Middle East region.
The airline’s newly-appointed chief, Andre Dose, says that the first part of the restructuring programme – costing BD120 million – will focus on creating a network which better serves the Bahraini and Omani business community.
Dose states: “The main goal of our restructuring and customer service programme is to increase flight frequencies to existing key destinations and to add new connections to major economic centres that are of growing importance for the economy of Bahrain and Oman.”
He says that Gulf Air will offer at least two flights per day to each main destination in the region, adding: “The introduction of a ‘wave structure’ of inbound and outbound flights will also allow us shorter connection times and ensure better connectivity with our Asian and European long-haul flights.”
The airline is cutting back its fleet to 28 aircraft and Gulf Air deputy chairman Mahmood Al Kooheji warns that this will mean a “painful” number of job losses. Gulf Air employs nearly 6,000 staff but has yet to indicate how many personnel will be cut.
Gulf Air’s restructuring will also feature a second parallel programme, costing BD190 million, aimed at improving the quality of its product. This will involve such measures as refurbishing its aircraft interiors and modernising its passenger facilities.
Source: Air Transport Intelligence news

boeingdriverx

18th Apr 2007, 14:43

which carrier is actually making money in the gulf ?

none. They are all toys of small countries with huge egoes and lots of petrodollars. Bahrain's pockets are just smaller than its neighboors...

BD

chrispatrickGA

18th Apr 2007, 16:20

Dont forget that Mr A.Dose just follows what the board members suggest him! What is particuliarly noticeable is that the expats ( cf the expat cabin crew) are becoming persona non grata in Gulf Air....
Gulf Air suddenly has the ambition...to be a regional airliner!!!:ugh:
Most of the new destinations will be in the gulf with A321 to come .
Dublin was one of the destination which was quite popular and the planes to Ireland were often full, the bkk to hong kong flight was definetely making money!!!!
Then was is the real strategy besides all this new decisions...?:uhoh:

Capt Hair Y Balls

18th Apr 2007, 16:25

Just got this by email lads
Quote

For the attn of Mr Andre Dose

Dear Sir,

May I first of all welcome you to the Kingdom of Bahrain and Gulf Air and wish you much success in the vast undertaking which you embark upon.

Having been fortunate enough to be part of the vast GF family for close to two decades now I have been a witness to much change. Change not always for the better but change none the less. I must admit that what we are witnessing now has never happened before in the long history of this Airline. Sadly it is a well known fact that when such dramatic restructuring takes place, although perhaps necessary, it sends shock waves throughout the Company.

I cannot comment on other employee groups within the Airline but I can assure you that our pilot community is very much disconcerted with what is currently taking place. I think most of us, and I speak always on behalf of the pilot community understand that the state of affairs of the Airline are such that leave you no other option other than these dramatic cut backs.

Please understand that we have had many a promise in the past by management, only to be dissapointed. PCE's come and go and each and everyone askes from the crew to pitch in and work hard to get the airline out of trouble with the promise of reward. Sadly housing costs increase each year, school fees increase each year and the reward we see now is the dismissal of 1500 of our co-workers.

I do understand that you come committed and enthusiastic to fulfil the task you undertook but please don't expect of us Sir the same enthusiasm because we have seen this all before. We have been given empty promises, we have worked extremely hard the past 3 years, sacrificed our personal life and family life to get the job done.
Perhaps it would be wise on your behalf to understand that this is not a good time to have your pilots in turmoil as most airlines around the world are seeking qualified pilots. I do not intend my previous statement to sound as a threat but more as a reality.

I understand that your top priority at present is to get the "shop" in order but I can assure you that once you do we all expect you to come up with a realistic package of salary, housing and schooling in order for us to stay commited to this Airline.

Qatar Airways recently increased their housing allowance from BD 600 p/m to BD 1200 p/m as well as their basic salary.

Emirates recently increased their whole package

Etihad recently increased housing and the overall benefits package.

Arabia (a small regional airline) offers a total package approximately 25% more than GF

It will not take long for individuals to loose faith in GF management and seek employment elsewhere. Till now no one from management has placed any importance in keeping good honest working qualified individuals in this airline. The cost which the airline has incurred due to the extreme turnover of crew is many times more than if it had offered an improved package to keep it's people. The previous VPO is a prime example of such a manager.

In closing I wish you every success and may wisdom prevail.

Sincerely

A Line Captain

Unquote

bus787

18th Apr 2007, 16:34

Very well said Hairy balls and Chris.
Its time Gf realises that pilots shouldnt contine paying for all the fat asses sitting in the offices doing nothing but moving their mouse.however seeing what Dose wrote it seems that they didnt learn.
1500 from Fleet operations mainly foreigners will be sacked.
The sacrifice crew will pay to feed the pegions.

point8four

18th Apr 2007, 17:21

However sincere and heartfelt the letter might be, the reality is that GF cannot turn around in the midst of a "cost saving/prevention" drive and increase the flight crew package.
They will lose people, and many good people due to this. When 25 yr capts are defecting to QR - its indicative of the myopia that affected the management for so many years. The long term cost of this little gem is still to manifest itself. Brace yourselves boys the vaseline has dried up.

liteac

18th Apr 2007, 17:43

with all the parle that is ongoing , try and remember that the person keeping you in a job is a customer:D of gf who experiences all those moments of delay with you .:sad:

Capt Hair Y Balls

18th Apr 2007, 18:00

liteac

The delays GF suffers are NEVER due to crew. Sadly we suffer with the customers waiting on-board the aircraft

Icarus

18th Apr 2007, 18:22

We don't all sit on our 'fat arses' doing nothing other than 'moving our mouse'!

There is more to an airline than just its pilots - this maybe a pilot web-site but your statement is unacceptable to those of us who are non-flying staff and work just as hard as you do with the same intent of being loyal, committed, resourceful, and productive contributors.

I for one am sick to my stomach after hearing the talk at yesterdays briefing; discovering that JH only really provided a brand and product improvement at the cost of unbelievable losses and 'bent' profit. I feel cheated by the Oz contingent and wonder if I will ever trust anyone at the very top of this company again to deliver on commitments. I am seriously considering whether I should stay!

Just the same as you however, I don't live in a palace, I have kids going to school - I have the same monetary issues as you. I will (I hope) be judged and rewarded on my performance - perhaps that needs to apply accross the board and include you guys too. Perhaps an extra gold-bar to balance the chip on the other shoulder!

Hopefully the deadwood, the politically connected and brown-nosers will be weeded out this time for good and the stage set for a modicum of success. Inevitably good people will go too, just for the reasons you stated above - that's life. AD I am sure will have more important things to worry about - accept the situation and take a step forward or move on.

MikeHunt

19th Apr 2007, 01:36

Now Icarus, do you see what I mean about MK?

All talk and no substance...remember this!

ironbutt57

19th Apr 2007, 01:54

The previous admin rebuilt the GF brand, now the foundations of the airline are being secured for the future, many of us will be forced to move on, others will have the privilege to stay on and see it through...eventually all the carriers here will go through this same process of evolution..GF is the leader in this aspect...the fat lady is singing here in the gulf loud and long...wake up the rest of you...do you hear her??? "Good night and good luck" to all IB57 signing out:ok:

bus787

19th Apr 2007, 03:13

Where in the world does a Trade Union say yes to job losses without trying to gain anyting??
But as well said by the Union Vp.the job cuts are expat cabincrew so in other words the Union doesnt give a .....
This was a great opprtunity missed by the GF union to secure something for the future.NEGOTIATE !!!
New Swiss for Ops..is he the new VPO?? I was told call for application for staff for VPO was issued on 19th.Same day he was appointed or this is anyoter post??

ironbutt57

19th Apr 2007, 04:03

HaHaHa look when I joined GF I signed up for the GATU thought it was the "right thing to do"..contribute to the cause....I subsequently found my webmails clogged for the next 3 years over infighting about who was running the union....it took a nasty email from me...re "jackasses" to get deleted from the e-mail crap circulating...I still pay my dues...I still get my BD 1...yes ONE monthly representation...remember ALPA in its infancy....someday long after I have gone to my dmise, the GATU will finally have something to do with T&C's at GF...(inshalla) right now they are too busy deciding who will run the "union"

boeingdriverx

19th Apr 2007, 04:09

Ok a trade union like we know it in the western world doesn't exist in the Middle East. so dont bother, they won't do anyting !

I was disgusted reading the front page of GDN yesterday. They wrote: most of the people leaving GF would be (...) Cabin Crew who are 'Non Bahrainis' ... First of all you won't save that much money by axing the Cabin Crew, second this is a category of staff who most of the time is hard-working and underpaid (again see the average salary for CC in Emirates, Ethihad etc.).

If you really want to save money axe all this Medium-Level managers (see W.Walsh in BA), they cost a lot of money and make GF organisation complicated. Plus get rid of these guys who swipe their IDs at 7am and go back home in their cars, just to come again at 5pm and swipe again after a long day of work!

some figures for a thought (2004 figures):

EK: 5000 employees and 52 airplanes (please this are 2004 figures, I know they have more now) so this is an average of 100 people / airplane

QR: 1350 people for 30 aircrafts so this is an average of approx 50 people / airplane

AND IN GF we have approx 6000 people and 30 aircrafts so this is an average of 200 people per aircraft!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No comment.

Cheers
BD

Hummingbird

19th Apr 2007, 17:16

What are the news about the last day for the 767? I heard it will end in July. Is this true? If so, when in July? :confused:

REACH-69

19th Apr 2007, 20:19

i wish i could answer your question ,but the 76CP himself has no idea when:confused: will the last 76 leaves......

CaptainOveur

19th Apr 2007, 20:50

Indeed. The communications seem to have dried up after the inital oupouring. People are in limbo here and the atmosphere stinks - a lot of fretting cabin crew especially. Everyone is worried about the job losses, but no one knows when the axe will fall.
I just wish they would give some sort timeline for the cuts.

I suppose I should have called the 'hotline' and asked, maybe next time if we're still all in the dark...

oveurout

boiler

19th Apr 2007, 21:05

Sure the union is behind the layoffs because the "official" line is that it will mostly be expats. They have no idea of the "true" number of the local layoffs that will occur in that company. Just wait and see.

bus787

20th Apr 2007, 03:38

Bah auh GFA321
auh rest of the world EY340.
Bah Dxb GFA321
Dxb rst of world EK380
Bah Doh GFA321
Doh rest of world QR 330
Bah Mct Gf A321
MCT rest of world Oman A330
Bah Amm GFA321
Amm Europe RJ 340.

Thank YOu GF for providing passengers to our New Aircraft.

Already JH benefiting from the GF droppeed routes and EY increasing flights to BAH.

chef andrew

20th Apr 2007, 06:46

"Mike Hunt", how original!
State your name, "Captain", so we can crap in your crew-meal!

Overpaid? Laughable. Perhaps in relation to "regular FA" slave wages.

jackbauer

20th Apr 2007, 06:59

And there was me thinking you crapped in all the meals! You mean it's supposed to taste like that?:{

Panama Jack

20th Apr 2007, 07:35

Much has been said and written about Sky Chefs in the past.

I cannot help but wonder whether the Sky Chef concept was in fact a very cleaver (and relatively inexpensive) marketing strategy cooked up (no pun intended) by James Hogan.

A Business or First Class passenger wants to make a reservation and looks at the options. All airlines offer lounges, flat-laying seats, nice meals, and obsequious service. But, oh, look . . . Gulf Air has a Sky Chef! Cool! Booking made.

Admittedly, GF has to work on other areas (modernity and cleanliness of the cabin and punctuality), which André Dosé has pledged to address sooner rather than later. However, and without knowing the full costs, I've always figured that the Sky Chefs are a cost effective way to descriminate our product from the competition.

Desert_Storm

20th Apr 2007, 10:11

C'mon guys, let's chill out a little bit here and start phocusing on what's really important at this very moment. I'd like to act as the Devil's advocate if you allow me on behalf of the sky chefs. First of all, this guys are not the ones to blame since there were offered this job for a decent salary and they TOOK it as we all would have done it in their cases, wouldn't we?. Second of all, the problem there is not if they are making 1800 or 2000 BD a month, the problem is that the rest of the hard working cabin crew members (specially the bahrainis) are making almost nothing for their work and that's the real problem; nothing will be fix sacking this sky chefs. I really think that what makes you successful in this aviation business among other things is to offer a state of the art service and here is where QR,EY,and EK are light years away from us: immaculate cabins, punctuality, excellent connections worldwide (including code sharing of course). We can't still thinking as pilots only, we have to try to get in the passengers/clients or customers pants as you prefer and think what THEY WANT. As someboby wrote in this thread before, the characteristics of our customers are quite different in this part of the world and think that what they want (among other thing again) is premium service and quality; guess this includes the skychefs even if they are only there to heat up the meals in the ovens but for sure the our customers will be very satisfied despite most of this guys are not Bocusse or Adrian Ferrá.
Nevertheless, i'm pretty sure GF is laughing out loud seeing how we critizise and fight between each other instead of getting together and fight for what we want (I mean get together the whole crew memebers including F/A's, Skychefs, S/N's, Pilots,etc). At the end, without our help no money is produced so believe me guys, THEY NEED THE CREWMEMBERS TO KEEP GOING AND MAKE SOME MONEY.
Any way, based on the history, it's easier to get 20 monkeys together and keep them steady for a picture rather than getting a couple of crewmembers together with an agreement. Our big ego is gonna kill us dudes.
No hard feeling and cheers mates!:ugh:

mogley

20th Apr 2007, 11:20

2 more Bahraini A320 Capt's resigned a few days ago with plenty more to follow if the new boys decide to transfer B767 junior Capt's to the A330/340 out of sequence. I know that a lot of the guys have said that that will be the final straw & the will just quit & head to 1 of the many options next door. But I really hope they don't force the guys to do it since in the end the company would be losing long term Captains.

capgemini

20th Apr 2007, 11:42

restrictions applied to pilot applications to another gulf operator, are no longer in force.:D Just got it in my mail !!!! CIAO

Desert_Storm

20th Apr 2007, 12:56

Yes, it's official: THE BAN HAS BEEN LIFTED FOR GF IN ETIHAD. Guys, don't be the last to upload the CV. Availability of seats are limited though. Good luck GF, and see you in Abu Dhabi.:D :D :D :D :D

bus787

20th Apr 2007, 13:12

Its amazing to see people .talking about the guud things this guy is doing and now off to EY..Hey GUYS JH and RH the people you have been complaining about are there.It seems it was all sour grapes.
LEts all agree JH did a gud job .he is doing a gud job in EY and a lot of guys here will follow HIm.
Take care JH some back stabbers might be on your doorstep.
The only gud thing Gf crew should do is do a Union for Flight and Cabin crew and Chefs and Fight for the proper cause.

Desert_Storm

20th Apr 2007, 13:20

totally agree with you si. If we get together, at least they will have to hear at us. UNION, UNION, UNION, UNION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

Tachi

20th Apr 2007, 13:57

Masalama Gf.I think we can now vote with our feet.Enough is Enough.

Stratosphere6000

20th Apr 2007, 14:25

Guys check out EY Flight Deck Vacancy page...100 command positions and 300 F/O................GF however wonderful it was..not end of the road I guess...some of you gotta stop thinking with your hearts and start thinking with your heads and pockets.................

Firbolgs

20th Apr 2007, 15:08

Everyone seems very sure of passing the EY selection!
:=

Its not gonna be that easy guys and its certainly not guaranteed, you need to do a bit of work!

Stratosphere6000

20th Apr 2007, 15:27

Is that so? Don't you just walk in say hi and they give you a start date...You must really under estimate the capacity of some of your colleagues.......

capgemini

20th Apr 2007, 16:32

:}
EY CAPT PAKAGE :ok:

Starting salary of AED 33000 or US$ 8965 per month for Captains and an annual salary increment of AED 700 per month.
Flight duty allowance of AED 50 per flying hour.
Meal allowance during layovers as per the following rates:
-Middle east/ GCC/ Sub continent AED 12 per hour
-Asia/ Far East AED 15 per hour
-Africa/ Australasia AED 18 per hour
-Europe/ Americas AED 23 per hour

Benefits

Housing allowances up to AED 120000.
(Or)
Company provided housing depending on availability.
(Or)
The opportunity to take advantage of our innovative "Rent to Buy" house purchase programme.
Education assistance of AED 25000 for primary and AED 35000 for secondary up to 4 children from the ages of 4 up to 19 years old.

F/O pakage:{ :

Starting salary of AED 24500 or US$ 6655 per month for First officers and an annual salary increment of AED 500 per month.
Flight duty allowance of AED 40 per flying hour.
Meal allowance during layovers as per the following rates:
-Middle East/ GCC/ Sub Continent AED 12 per hour
-Asia/ Far East AED 15 per hour
-Africa/ Australasia AED 18 per hour
-Europe/ Americas AED 23 per hour

Benefits:

Housing allowance up to AED 115000 per year.

(Or)

Company provided housing depending on availability.
(Or)
The opportunity to take advantage of our innovative "Rent to Buy" house purchase programme.
Education allowance of AED 25000 for primary and AED 35000 for secondary up to 4 children from the ages of 4 up to 19 years old.
42 Days annual leave.
Staff travel benefits.
End of service benefits.
Accidental and life insurance benefits.
CIAO

KAISER74

20th Apr 2007, 16:55

Sorry guys but I really think that we should at least give somme time to AD ,personaly i think that the best is to come for GF you will see it soon:)

4HolerPoler

20th Apr 2007, 19:09

This out in confirmation on Speednews today -

Gulf Air this week revealed BD310m (US$825m) "Get Well" Programme to turn the company around. The plan consists of two pillars, requiring investment in aircraft and ground facilities, to completely reshape the network to better serve the needs of the Bahrain and Oman economies and, to improve customer service through higher punctuality, better reliability and lower connection times. Gulf Air says that the airline's operation was currently losing more than US$1m per day, and including other costs such as financing 'the figure would even be substantially higher.' Accumulated losses and costs, including 2007, would amount to BD254m (US$675m).

Under the first part of the program that will cost BD120m (US$319m), Gulf Air will undergo a major restructuring of its operations. The focus is on closing the airline's current profitability gap of BD156m (US$414m), creating a network that serves better the needs of the Bahrain and Oman business community and, increasing Gulf Air's customer service level. To achieve its financial and operational goals, Gulf Air will downsize its fleet from 34 to 28 aircraft by removing nine 767s and nine A340s, and adding eight A330s and four A321s; it also has six A330-200s and 10 A320s. It will operate an all-Airbus fleet. It is expected to take until the beginning of 2009 to complete the fleet replacement and restructuring program.

The second pillar of Gulf Air's "get well" program consists of investments of BD190m (US$505m) to improve the quality of its product on the ground and in the air. The airline intends to refurbish the cabins of its existing Airbus aircraft. In addition, ground facilities, such as lounges, will be upgraded. Parallel to the downsizing of its fleet by roughly 25 per cent, Gulf Air's workforce will have to be reduced, also. Currently, the airline has nearly 6,000 employees. The exact number of jobs that will be cut as a result of the downsizing and restructuring of the company still has to be defined. A portion of the downsizing of the workforce will occur through natural attrition.

bus787

21st Apr 2007, 03:18

Is it really worth the hussle to move from GF to EY??
If you really want to prosper look at Asia Good money cheaper cost of Living.
Cheapest property in Auh around 2500000 DHS for a Villa.u need minimum 20years to pay that with rent to buy.How many GF capts have 20 years more in this career??
Fo Salary bit better than GF but cost of living in UAE lot more than BAH.
INDIA crying for your experience guys.

jbsig

21st Apr 2007, 12:21

careers.etihadairways.com seems extremely slow today.

everybody in BAH at the same time filling in the application i guess:D

Desert Diner

21st Apr 2007, 12:48

When will the DUB flight be discountinued?

ozziecrew

21st Apr 2007, 12:49

Hi all

i was just reading through all this downsizing and re-structuring of gulf air and was wodnering if many crew are trying to make the move to Etihad? For those that are already crew or have been for gulf, would there much of a pay difference going to Etihad? for better or worse?? I have just been offered a job with Etihad and am going over around June, so was just wondering what the census is with all you gulf crew

mogley

21st Apr 2007, 13:28

Supposed to have been something on BBC a few hours ago with the big guy & the chairman of the board interviewed. They said something like GF can not compete with the bigger carriers in the area & that we will have to become a regional airline & feed passengers to our bigger brothers.
Doesn't seem much of a future. I think we are heading Oman Air's way whilst they will be going international:confused:
Also with the political tensions in Bah ready to explode things are looking better day by day:(

Capt Hair Y Balls

21st Apr 2007, 22:33

For heavens sake please don't tell me any of you actually believe the fact that they will fire any cabin crew, or expat crew?
It's all a load of b*ll*cks, if they fire any crew they can pretty much for sure ground flights. They intend to fire the "do bu@@er all" office staff and ground staff, they just cannot come out and say it. Trouble is when the media get a handle on what's happening all hell will brake loose. Should make for some interesting reading in the GDN.
In the meantime the gravest error they are making is that all this hype and insecurety will make people run, next thing on the cards is .................. wait for it.

Direct entry Captains ............ on 6 month contract ofcourse.:D

Goodness me will these boys ever learn:=

Anyway sorry must go now as I've got an Etihad interview to prepare for:E

Cheers
Capt Fluffies

Capt Hair Y Balls

21st Apr 2007, 22:40

Just to get the ball rolling,
How many expats have they fired till now................hhmmm
NONE
All locals VP's with fat salaries, huge ego's, and lots of Armani suits (see VPO) ;)
Nuff said
Cheers Fluffies

Bombay HF

22nd Apr 2007, 20:31

Not so hard to get into Etihad, all you need to do is get arrested for smuggling, spend the night in the lock up and get fired...there you have it..easy!

ironbutt57

22nd Apr 2007, 21:19

Bombay HF...sounds like fun but???????:confused: :confused:

NTM

23rd Apr 2007, 18:27

Well It is official, Check your webmail.
4 B767s to remain till March 2008. With 50 crews.

Icarus

23rd Apr 2007, 18:43

But they are not on the schedule from 1-July; believe they will only be used on a 'stand-by' basis.

ODMEA

24th Apr 2007, 00:35

stand by? I hope that means they gut the bloody things. I refuse to fly the 76 in its current fit out. What an absolute disgrace of an ac...I think a cargo ac has a more comfortable and reliable reputation that GF's 76's:yuk:

jackbauer

24th Apr 2007, 05:49

I refuse to fly the 76 in its current fit out. Ha Ha Ha! I love it. Yeah you 767 guys really are in a position to refuse to fly these day. Stick it to the company ODMEA we are all behind ya!:D

Trader

24th Apr 2007, 06:22

If I remember correctly ODEMA does not work for GF but is a frequent passanger.

Looks like the management is taking the cabin condition seriously and you will see changes soon, especially in economy. They will also be undertaking to ensure that the condition and working order is maintained which has been a real issue. I think our passangers will be pleasantly suprised. Especially as they organize and plan proper connection timing etc.

tbaylx

24th Apr 2007, 08:06

ODEMA is a GF customer, not a Boeing pilot. He raises a valid point that our new management is addressing. The B767's are being phased out not because they are a bad aircraft, but because the cost to redo the interiors to a suitable standard, and the costs of running a two type fleet are becoming more than what Bahrain wants to deal with.

ODEMA, you should notice a marked improvement in the interiors of the aircraft over the next several months, as well as some of the other issues Trader mentioned.

As for jack's off the cuff comments, the boeing guys are not interested in sticking it to the company. All we're asking for is some information on how many people they need, how many of us are "surplus" and can feel free to look for work elsewhere and how long we have. If we don't get that information i'll assume worst case scenario and guess it's July 1st i'm out of work if i'm not willing or able to sign another 3 year bond on the Airbus. Nice to know they'll keep 50 of us till March next year, that at least gives us an idea of the numbers that will need to leave or sign.

BahrainLad

24th Apr 2007, 08:12

Typically breathtakingly arrogant GF "the customer is an inconvenience" attitude displayed there jackbauer, well done.

Albergineman

24th Apr 2007, 10:40

" We are retaining 4 B767 till March 2008, crew complement for these aircraft are 26 Captains and 24 First Officers.

A330/340 manpower meets the network requirements, hence there are no courses planned for transfers to this fleet.

We have an urgent need to transfer both Captains and First Officers to A320 with first courses as follows:

1st May
13th May
10th June
08th July

I would lioke to invite people to apply for these courses, selection from applicants will be as per seniority"

Based on this fact, if you are the 27th Captain or 25th First Officer think about the 320 or resign. No mention regarding Training Bond.

Wait and see...

:rolleyes:

jackbauer

24th Apr 2007, 10:57

Typically breathtakingly arrogant GF "the customer is an inconvenience" attitude displayed there jackbauer, well done. Thank you Bahrainlad, but if you can show me where it is obvious in ODMEA's post that he is a pax I would appreciate it. He is on a forum frequented by GF staff and comments on issues as if he is one of us. There is a forum for SLF which might better suit his origins. Meanwhie I apologise if offense was taken but if you are not clear where you come from then what do you expect. As for the 767, guys I feel sorry about the way things are developing. If you are not dusting off CV's and looking elsewhere you are taking a big risk. In fact that also goes for the Airbus guys too. GF may not be a very nice place to work in 6 months from now and if you look at my past posts you will know I don't say that likely! I have always been a supporter of GF but these days it's getting to a point where there is no good news anymore. Mr. Dose is doing nothing to encourage people to stay. I get the impression he wants to scare everyone into leaving. All this talk about pulling together to make the company work is a load of nonsense when directed at crew. We are the only ones who have nowhere to hide, we must turn up and fly. Our productivity is not in our hands its down to the company. We already fly the max hours every year so what more does he want!! He needs to separate his commumication with the crew from everyone else before there is nobody left to fly his 28 aircraft. Phew!! Feel better now.