Lesson Frequency

[PCA]

First post, so hello all.

I'm a 10hr PPL student and had a real nightmare lesson at Compton Abbas today. Everything I've been taught thus far I seem to have forgot whilst "I had control". It was my first proper "circuit" lesson and just about everything went wrong.......

The problem I'm having is that I'm learning on a budget, to the tune of £300 a month, or one lesson a fortnight. The weather has been so bad over the winter that on occasion I've gone over a month between lessons. I feel I've suffered from a lack of continuum (:D ) in my efforts to learn this new skill.

So, would it be better to shovel my monthly £300 aside and build up a "wodge", and then do it more intensely next year - say two 1hr lessons a day?

I'm feeling that I should just get the exams out of the way this year and do the practical next year, when incidentally my conservatory will be paid off!!

Today was a waste of money and I came away dejected - though I still enjoyed it...

[Captain Smithy]

Hi PCA,

Welcome to Proon!

I'm sure many of us here can relate to that, I have been in this situation recently (haven't flown since end of January due to keech weather, have one coming up this Saturday though!) and I'm hoping everything doesn't go to pot during my lesson. Just running through everything in my head and doing plenty of reading:ok:

I understand your financial situation, it's up to you what you want to do but I would recommend doing a bit of saving first then hammering in the lessons.

Hopefully with the better weather coming in though (Ha!) you may get to fly more regularly, so try it and see.

Smithy;)

[BackPacker]

PCA, how many circuits have you flown today? It's going to take at least five to ten circuits, in any case, before everything just clicks together. That's regardless of how much money you've got to spend, or how many lessons you do per month.

The reason is that all of a sudden when flying circuits, you're not concentrating on a single task (climbing, turning, descending, applying carb heat, whatever) but you've got to get a "flow" of things going. Without an instructor pointing out every single task for you.

To prepare for your next circuit lesson, do the following: Draw a circuit diagram and then, for each instrument, lever and whatever in the aircraft, write down in the diagram where you need to apply it. Most important ones are:
- Throttle to set RPM
- Pitch to set airspeed
- Ailerons and rudder for turns
- Trim
- Flaps
- Radio calls
- Carb heat
- Fuel pump (probably left on during circuits, but it will need to be switched on later on in your program as you enter the circuit)

Then spend a couple of hours "armchair flying" where you just do a mock of whatever you're going to do in the airplane. Say your actions outloud, make the appropriate hand motions. Put a timer up: a student circuit will be somewhere between three and five minutes. Try to learn the flow of things. Do this a couple of times before your next lesson, and then apply it in the air. (Best to do this if nobody's around - it looks very silly...)

And you did invest in a copy of Microsoft Flight Simulator too, did you? One of the things it can help you with is learning this sort of "flow" things, although it doesn't complain if you forgot the fuel pump or carb heat.

[C152_driver]

Hi PCA,

I'm kind of in the same place at the moment, although my lesson frequency is limited by work commitments and the weather.

My flying mood is up and down like the proverbial bride's nightie at the moment, with a "bad one", followed by a "great one", followed by a...

I'd echo the comments about the first circuits being a nightmare! It really does settle down quite quickly as more stuff becomes automatic, leaving you a few spare brain-cells to think about things.

Have a read of my blog at http://blog.myspace.com/nigeleaton and you'll see that I'm currently on an upswing. I expect that to change tomorrow! :}

Nigel

[Captain Smithy]

I wholeheartedly agree with BackPacker about MS Flight Sim, it is a very useful tool.

I have FS2004 and the Just Flight Flying Club addon (I am learning on the Tomahawk, Flying Club has a Tomahawk, C152, Warrior and Seneca), I find it useful for practicing my checklists, I get out my Club checklist and run through everything, it is proving very useful in helping me remember things.

"Armchair Flying" is useful too... although people may give you funny looks if they see you doing it;)

Smithy

[High Wing Drifter]

Once a fortnight is too little and 1 hr a day would be too much (unless you have plenty of time available to reherse and revise). I thought twice a week for a busy person was ideal. Left enough time to ensure I could armchair fly the previous lesson and think through the next one. :ok:

[Whirlybird]

Today was a waste of money

No, it wasn't. You learned more than you think.

You learned that simply having flying lessons is not enough; you have to have a plan of campaign and work out how to use your time wisely.

You learned that you are a person, not a machine, and that there will be good and bad days no matter what you do.

You learned to ask for help and advice, and came and posted on here. And do take BackPacker's brilliant advice, which I'm sure all of us will agree with.

You may not have learned yet - but you need to - that getting stressed and beating yourself up because of an apparently bad session is counter-productive; it means you fly even worse and can't learn the things which are there for you to learn within that bad session. You HAVE to relax!

You may not have learned - but need to - that where money is concerned, there's Real Life...and then there's flying. Just don't even think about what it's costing you, or you get even more stressed...and then fly even worse etc etc. You flew, therefore you learned. You will always have bad days, however long you fly.

You may not have learned - but need to - that it's worth analysing an apparently bad session to find out why things went wrong. Was it simply overload - the circuit is tough, and we instructors are sometimes too keen and take people into it too early? Was it stress or fatigue...had you had a tough day at work, a row with a friend? Were you coming down with a cold, but thinking it was nothing; even the slightest thing like that can affect your flying quite dramatically? Or was it just....one of those things, which you need to occasionally accept?

Sounds to me like overall it was a great learning experience and £150 well spent. :ok:

[C152_driver]

I have FS2004 and the Just Flight Flying Club addon (I am learning on the Tomahawk, Flying Club has a Tomahawk, C152, Warrior and Seneca), I find it useful for practicing my checklists, I get out my Club checklist and run through everything, it is proving very useful in helping me remember things.


How do you find the C152 model's performance? Every simulated one I've tried climbs like a homesick angel!

The one I fly is definitely a little less spritely. Of course that may be because both my instructor and I are fond of pies...

The problem is that it makes the circuit pretty unrealistic to me. My field has noise abatement procedures to remember, and the turn height come up too quickly. In one model I found I was hitting circuit height before the end of the runway! :eek:

Good point with the checklists though.

[Mariner9]

PCA, why don't you see if you can blag some free(ish) RHS time from a Compton-based PPL. (see "Free seats available" thread) Just sitting and watching them do their stuff should assist in maintaining your currency between lessons. Should only cost a bacon buttie or maybe a landing fee.

I'm always happy to take Studes up when I've a free seat, most PPL's I know are too :ok:

[Wessex Boy]

Definately blag some RHS time, I did a Student Fly in with one of the Magazines a couple of weeks ago, and 2 hours of solid flying in busy airspace, whilst getting to play with some post-PPL toys (GPS, AutoPilot,, etc) was time well spent.

When I got to my lesson last week, my taxying was more natural, and I didn't have to think too hard about actually flying, it had suddenly switched into Subconcious

My advice for the circuit is to get settled early, get the checks done early in Downwind and give yourself time. Saturday was my first landing in a month and it was awful!!

[BackPacker]

I fly out of a busy, controlled field, with everything up to banner towing and 737s. The only element lacking is gliders. I always try to get my "downwind" checks (properly called "approach" checks) done before the last VRP before entering the circuit. That way I've got time to fly the aircraft and anticipate any curveball that ATC might throw at me. We do get the occasional "Able to do a short circuit?" "Affirm" "Cleared to land, request expedite vacating, number 2 is a 737 on long final" when you're midfield downwind at 1500'. Pull the power all the way back, drop all flaps and kamikaze turn. They only seem to do that to aircraft that are based there though, and sound confident on the radio.

A collegue of mine had that same situation, but he was in an R-2160 (Aerobatic Robin) and just returned from an aerobatic sortie (tower knew this, presumably). He did a 110 degree (no kidding!) banked turn from downwind direct onto the runway. From downwind to "runway vacated" in less than 30 seconds. You'd better have all your checks completed before... OTOH - our gear is down and welded so there's not a lot that can go seriously wrong if you forget a check.

[Captain Smithy]

C152_Driver:
"How do you find the C152 model's performance? Every simulated one I've tried climbs like a homesick angel! The one I fly is definitely a little less spritely."

Yes, I know what you mean... same thing with the Tomahawk. Flying with any of the instructors at my club (none of whom are podgy at all, and I'm a skinny runt myself) I last witnessed a climb rate of about 500-700fpm in the club Tommy, yet in FS2004 I see almost 1000fpm. Unbelievable!

[tangovictor]

PCA if you really want to fly cheaply, forget the ppl, nppl m fixed wing microlights, same performance, 1/2 the cost, OK you won't be able to
use the hours towards a commercial rating or fly at night/instruments
not everyone wants to

[BackPacker]

Well, you can change the W&B of any aircraft in FS2004, for a more realistic (challenging) performance.

[Piltdown Man]

PCA - What do you think? Increasing to frequency to once a week would probably help and maybe even twice. But don't forget that for every lesson you should also be self-briefing (an hour or two the day before) and you must budget for time as well as the cost. Do the money sums and see what you can afford.

And then as for self criticism, don't bother! You are not the instructor. If they say you are a plonker, then so be it, but generally when you first start circuits your flying turns to rat****. I'm a member of that club. I last did some in January and flew as a far as I was concerned, flew like a plonker but as far as the instructor was concerned, adequate.

PM

[RatherBeFlying]

To get your license in the minimum number of hours / money, save up your money, schedule three weeks off and fly twice a day in two hour slots with adequate time off in between to have lunch, rest and prepare for the next flight.

There are training operators in the Channel Islands, France, Canada, South Africa, or the US that specialise in training to CAA requirements -- careful research is necessary as the odd one is a less than stellar operation.

As many of us have found, the pay as you go when you have money option generally takes a couple years.

[C152_driver]

Hah!

I've just comprehensively disproved the theory that frequent lessons are better, during my second lesson in two days.

Hint: The carb heat control is NOT red... :eek:

Twice. :uhoh:

Not one of my better days. Still, nobody killed, nobody drownded, and only a couple of years off my instructor's life expectancy, so nothing to really worry about.

[PCA]

Hello again. Thankyou all for reading my post and offering positive and encouraging comments. BackPacker: I found your ideas particularly helpful, imaginative and useful - I've taken all that on board, so thanks again, - great advice for sure.

After the last 36 hrs I have come to really believe that a (0.8) of an hour, or so, every 2,3 or 4 weeks is less than ideal and is downright uneconomic in terms of learning to fly. Even if the weather is OK, fortnightly flying is, (for me), still too infrequent to learn.

So then, I HAVE taken the decision to postpone my lessons for this year. I passed my Airlaw exam recently and the remaining exams are really going to get some attention this coming summer. Actually, I'm looking forward to the challenge and enjoyment of learning something new - and so things are still on a positive footing.

This summer I'll be sitting out front of EGHA with a beer in one hand and my Maycom scanner (listening to circuit calls), whilst watching those Magnificent Men in their Flying Machines having a good time. Yesterday really peed me off but I'm more resolved than ever to see this through.

Thanks chaps. This really is a top forum.

[RatherBeFlying]

Pulling the red knob, eh?

Spend a bit of time feeling the shape of the knobs. There is a reason the shapes are distinct.

Look, caress to confirm shape, then pull.

[Whirlybird]

I've just comprehensively disproved the theory that frequent lessons are better, during my second lesson in two days.


That's true for some people. I've always done appallingly badly on intensive courses. I need time to think digest, read, recover, recuperate, plan etc etc.

As for pulling wrong knobs, make a rule that before you pull or push anything you'll have a look and confirm out loud what it is. Very necessary in the future when you fly different types that inconveniently change knobs and swap around their positions too.

[BackPacker]

PCA, that's probably a wise, though very hard decision to make. You really should have a budget so that you can do the 45 hours, including instruction and everything, within a timeframe of one year. If needed, save up beforehand. But stretching the PPL course over a longer timeframe means that you are spending too much time picking up where you left off previously.

One tip: try to remain listed as a student at your club, even if you only fly once every three months or so. Clubs, in addition to lessons, typically organise other events for students as well, and it might be a very good idea to participate in these events. At the very least, it ensures that you get to know people who might just give you a ride in the RHS for (virtually) free.

And pay attention to the fact that your ground exams have a limited lifespan. I think it's 36 months: from the time you do the exam to the time you do the skills test. If you're going to sit on your hands now for a full year, while saving up money, and then spend a year obtaining the PPL, your current air law exam is probably going to be toast and you'll have to resit it again. Don't let that happen to your other exams though!

[Wessex Boy]

There is a point of view that getting your PPL in the minimum amount of hours is not the point, the point is to go flying when you can and as often as you can.

If it takes 50,55,75 hours to get your PPL what does it matter? you still have a number of hours with air beneath your wheels, the only difference is a bit of paper to say that you can carry some unsuspecting Pax.

I can only afford 1-2 hours a month at the moment, but that does not stop me, I am just enjoying the flying and I have no fixed view on how long it will take to get my PPL back.

I went solo in 6.5 hours and completed my PPL in 38 hours, all within 5 weeks back in '86.
I have done 4.5 hours so far towards getting my PPL back with at least another 2 before I re-solo, and then I have no idea how many more before I am up to my skills test. I have not set a target, I just want to be signed off as safe enough to satisfy my Wife that I am allowed to take our 2 young children aloft:)

Just enjoy it, fly when you want to. I guarantee that every time you visit the airfield, you'll wish you are the one strapping on a kneeboard

[Whirlybird]

Wessex Boy,

That's always been my way of doing it. After all, what are you doing now at the airfield? Flying. And what will you do when you get your PPL? Fly. what's the big difference? And people fly much better if they don't put themself under that kind of pressure too.

But you can tell this till you're blue in the face to the high achievers who see everything as an aim with a goal, or a challenge to be completed, and it's not an attitude they can manage to have; it tends to be completely alien to their way of thinking. :(

[Cumulogranite]

What Whirls says is true (no change there then) Look at my way of doing it. I started in 1992, still haven't got the ppl.

I lost my job after 3 hours, and other things took a more important place in my cash flow, like mortgage, holidays etc. I returned to flying in 2001/2 got to first solo and the money ran out again. Satisfied myself with going to the club saying hello from time to time, and some Right Hand seat trips from freinds. Returned to the fold last year with a grand and a half spare. Not enough to complete the ppl, but I got the navigation tuition out of the way. Next time I get some spare money I will build up the solo time, QXC and skills test left to do, and I will do what the money at the time allows. Don't get me wrong, it breaks my heart whenever I have to stop again, but I am at the point where it happens so often I am hardened to it.

The one thing that has remained constant in all this time though is since 2001/2 whenever I have not been able to do it properly, I have always managed to find the funds for an hour every 3 or 4 months, just to keep my hand in. It means that I fly about 3 hours a year, but my basic skills of straight and level climbing and descending, turning, circuit work etc are all still reasonably current. That way when i do get some spare cash I don't waste any re-capping the basics.

If you are certain that you aren't going to fly again this year, at least think about doing it this way. Keeps the spirit alive as well!

[BackPacker]

What Wessex, Cumulo and Whirly are telling you is all true if all you want is to enjoy the thrill of piloting an aircraft yourself. In other words, it's the art/skill/magic of flying that attracts you.

But if it's the "go places" that attracts you, then a PPL opens a whole load of opportunities that you generally do not have pre-PPL. Last week I planned a flight from Rotterdam to Fairoaks for a courtesy visit to a Business Partner of ours. Business trip which unfortunately got cancelled (but I am replanning) due to the weather. I'm also thinking of flying to Ameland somewhere next week, just to walk on the beach for a couple of hours. That's a one-hour flight which would otherwise be a four-hour trip, including a ferry ride.

Also, once you've got that PPL, flying becomes cheaper. For starters you don't have to pay an instructor, and you can let your passengers share some of the cost.

Each his own motivation of course, and everybody is limited by budget, but for me, I would get seriously demotivated if it took me several years to get my PPL. (And because of that, I did one of those three-week PPLs in Florida!)

Oh, and if you're just flying for the kick of it (which I can fully understand), then there are cheaper alternatives than flying a Group-A-spamcan. Microlights (3-axis or weight-shift) have been mentioned, but also gliders, deltas, autogyros. My first air experience was actually in (underneath) a parapente, and you have foot-launched-motorized-parapentes too nowadays. All these alternatives involve flying of some sort, all of them give you a great buzz (probably even greater than in a spam can) and all of them are cheaper. The disadvantage is that you can't seriously "go places" with some of these "aircraft" (let alone take passengers), and that you cannot always count the hours flown in them towards a PPL.

So it all depends on "why do you want to fly?"

[Wessex Boy]

BackPacker, I understand your point, whilst I am happy to take my time, my kids are extremely impatient for me to take them flying!

What I might do is take my eldest along in the back when I get to Navexes

[BackPacker]

No (legal) problem taking a passenger on a dual lesson, indeed. They can be very distracting though, especially kids. Puking at inconvenient times, chatting all through the radio traffic. Aviate, navigate, communicate and then take care of your passengers!

If you're flying a half-decent spam can, look for a button called "pilot isolation" or "crew isolation" on the audio select panel. This cuts the passengers from the intercom and is sometimes extremely convenient. A bit rude, but convenient.

[Wessex Boy]

Better their first experience in that sized aircraft is when there are 2 crew up front! (She has flown in Squirrel Helis and a Dragon Rapide though...:cool: )

[Whirlybird]

Backpacker,

But if it's the "go places" that attracts you, then a PPL opens a whole load of opportunities that you generally do not have pre-PPL.

As with all of your posts, very well put and quite true. But if you're struggling with time and/or money, you aren't going to be able to manage the going places post-PPL anyway. And that means you might just as well chill out and enjoy the flying that you can do, rather than do battle with what life is throwing at you and try desperately to get a PPL quickly...for what? But yes, everyone's different. Isn't it lucky they've got people like you and me to present all the alternatives? ;) :)

[BackPacker]

Hear hear!