Air NZ to get A319's?

[CTOT ON]

Heard a rumour at a breifing today that management are looking at replacing 737's with A319's.
Anyone else heard something like that?

[terronnd]

Please............ and the sooner the better!

[Skystar320]

ppppppppppppppppppppffffffffffffffffffttttttttttttttt.


How are they going to pay for it? with the Ansett money they stole???? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[747-419]

What a load of rubbish. Ansett was headed down the tubes with or with out ANZ.

[Skystar320]

Load of rubbish? pppppppppfffffffffffffffffffffffttttttttt go and read the creditors reports and find how much they 'stole'

yes Ansett was heading down the gutter i agree but what Air New Zealand did was totally un - acceptable./

[Cloud Cutter]

CTOT ON

That's interesting. The word has always been that they'll get NG Boeings somewhere round 2011, but I'm not sure how reliable that one is either.

The 319 would certainly be a good machine for the domestic market if they can sort out the loading hastles they have with A320s on the domestic runs. Other airlines seem to be able to do it so I'd imagine it's just a slight infrastructure change?

[pakeha-boy]

Cloud mate.....loading hassels????.......explain....just curious really.....fly both the 320/319.....never really experienced loading hassels.....PB

[haughtney1]

Is cos vee arrre freench..an say noon

Plus I think AirNZ (I stand to be corrected) have a few issues with their set up being Boeing based rather than tolouse inspired.

BTW you have to try Tolouse sausage...food of the gods:ok:

[OhForSure]

I've noticed that NZ previously used ULDs (AKH - baby cans) in the loading of their A320s, now I've been seeing a mix of both bulk load and ULDs being used... perhaps that may have something to do with the loading problems mentioned??? Anyone?

[Cloud Cutter]

PB, I'll give it a go but I'm not really sure my self. Something to do with the cans, and how the bags can't be accessed at the aircraft for tranships. Does that make any sense? Perhaps someone else could help me out. All I know is I've been delayed waiting for bags off A320s (filling in for 73s) and that was the reason given.

[pakeha-boy]

H1....oui oui.......prefer the "le pipe' from the sheilias from the San Micheal Blvd:E :ok:

[pakeha-boy]

Cloud.....more confused really.......we run 321/320/319....757/737 ops all from the same gates......and its a daily routine......reckon it depends on how much $$$$$$ you want to throw at the operation side of things....PB

[CT7]

Yes, apparently Mr Airbus was out last week to hand out gifts and try to sway Air NZ.
2 Shows, none and you know the other!
Air NZ recently did the math (unlike selwyn cushing!) and the 737s will be staying. And I believe getting a well earned refurb.

Comment re cans and thrown bags, Cans for Air NZ flights and throw it in for Freedom maybe?

[belowMDA]

I concur with CT7. The 733's will be flying the line domestically until c 2015 when the 73 replacement comes out. Then Air NZ will put their hat in the ring (just like almost every other 73 operator around the world) for some delivery slots.

As an aside, with Le Bus, is there such a thing as a high cycle penalty with respect to airframe and engine overhaul costs etc?

[terronnd]

319's are being looked at but it's not a formal fleet replacement program yet.

Airbus are pushing it hard.

A320 considerably cheaper to maintain than 737.

Serious advantage to having same a/c type operating domestic and trans tasman, one pilot group, one flight attendant group, one sim, fit a/c to route, ie 319 to provincial cities etc.

NZ = Cans, SJ = Bulk.

[MELKBQF]

Out of MEL we bulkload SJ A320 flights that are operated by NZ livered aircraft. NZ flights are still containerised.

[Cloud Cutter]

Why the difference? I'm guessing freight?

[Split Flap]

The pencil will have to be very sharp for the company to consider them as I believe they have not budgeted to change the domestic fleet for a little while yet... Also there is the issue of the 319 being heavier than the domestic weight -300, this pushes it into the next weight bracket for landing fees and so it would have to be a lot cheaper to run...

[grdproxinop]

Cloud Cutter

The only reason Freedom flights are not can loaded is most Freedom flights operate into Dunedin, Hamilton and Palmerston North which do not have the equipment to load / unload containers.

Also why you see Freedom flights operating in Air NZ livery and vice versa is because the A320 pilot group operate as one under Zeal 320 which is a combination of both Air NZ and Freedom A320 pilots. Therefore you may fly an Air NZ service one day and a Freedom service the next.

Believe me it's a complete dogs breakfast and either pilot group likes it.

[Eastwest Loco]

My 2 bob's worth is that cans and narrow bodies do not work.

TN tried it with cans in the 727-276 a thousand years ago and it was a nightmare. 737/757 belly sections are much the same as the fuselage dimension is the same. A319/320/321 are only slightly wider.

Stick in ULD's and you limit your ability to carry abnormal length baggage/freight eliminating sporting equipment in many cases and long cargo.

There is also the weight penalty of the ULD itself. No bulk hold in a single aisle aeroplane.

This one must have been introduced by Maaaaaaahketing.

Best all

EWL

[horserun]

I hear Air nz may get another 737 by the end of the year. Any truth in it??

[Split Flap]

Yeah thats the rumor but, it wont mean anymore pilots if thats what your hoping.

[horserun]

It was.
why do they need another??

[1279shp]

And they're still economic to run.
ANZ got some of the last of the 300's to be built.
A319's wud make a lot of sense, however one might consider that its just merely a tactic to get a better price outta Boeing.
Rumour is that Boeing, one time owners of DeHavilland Canada, "threw" the Q300 into as part of the 777/787 deal.
ATR42 wud have been the go for NS. But then it could have caused a few "cross qual" dramas with MC/NS pilots/engineers!

[Split Flap]

Passenger demand and maintenance requirements.
No requirments for more -300 pilots (plans may change) If it helps the company is recruiting onto the long haul fleets.
I hear that the D-8 fleet cost 300mil?, a good deal maybe, but hardly 'chucked in'.

[stoidiuoy]

Maybe you should all cast you mind back to when the A320 deal was done.....part of that deal was options on A321's.
Would it not be more plausible to think that the 733's would go...the 320's would do domestic and 321's would take over tasman and pacific flying???????????

[1279shp]

Bearing in mind that the "inhabitors of windowless" rooms at the top are trying to reduce ground handling costs, don't think the 320 will be doing domestic runs. The cargo/bagage height is too great for the groundies to load/unload without a ramp - and extra people - the 737 can be loaded without a ramp.

My pick is that the ERJ-175/195 might be a interesting subsitute.

From a CBC story in Canada written in 2004

Bombardier has signed a deal to provide Air New Zealand with 17 of the company's Q300 50-seat turboprop aircraft.
The deal includes an option to buy another 10 Q300 planes and 13 Bombardier Q400 70-seat aircraft. If all of the options are exercised, the deal is worth $716 million US. The value of the firm orders is $269.5 million US.

[alangirvan]

The A319 does operate on European services with airlines which do very quick turnarounds/through stops - time on the ground would not be a problem by the time the aircraft get delivered.

But...A319s and 737NGs are really intended for much longer stage lengths than the important jet routes in NZ. This is not to say they are the ideal planes for short routes anywhere else. The 737-700 is a very big plane for Melbourne-Launceston and Brisbane-Mackay, which is one of the reasons Virgin Blue is getting E-jets, A long time ago, when Norm Geary was CEO of AirNZ, he said that 737-300s were like using sledge hammers to crack a nut for NZ domestic routes. They had to be bought in the absence of anything else. (perhaps Fokker 100s or 717s). The busiest route in NZ is a very short one, with a flight time of less than an hour. The planes that will replace A320s and B737s will surely not be intended for routes of 300 miles.

So, 737NGs and A320s are Trans Tasman and Pacific area planes, NZ domestic flights are where the Embraers and the new version of the CRJ-1000 with 100+ seats will go.

[OhForSure]

EWL just for your info the narrowbody Airbus aircraft DO have bulkholds. Jetstar seen to have made the ULD system work. Incredible how quickly the express guys can load and unload an A320. Interesting to note that FEWER ground crew are needed as well when compared to DJ's NG turns!

Further to the can/bulk argument... I've watched a "NZ liveried" 320 be loaded in SYD with baby cans in the forward compartment and bulk loaded in the rear... anyone? Unsure of destination or flight details.

The 733s are sure to stay for a while yet... the last -300 ever built was delivered to NZ, and most of the fleet are newer than many of Southwest's early -700s! People forget that the Classics were produced alongside the NGs for a few years before the classics were put out to pasture.

There are still thousands of classics that will operate for another 10 years or so with many of the worlds major carriers.

[Gravox]

Rumour has it that Air NZ will recruit on to the 737 in September. Also interviews from off the street in May.

[Cloud Cutter]

Have the calls gone out for those yet?

[belowMDA]

CC re the Sept course I doubt it. I reckon calls for an interview would go out about two months before the course; three weeks to prep, interview and get the results and a months notice to current employer.

In my humble opinion all newbies should go onto the 737 so they can learn how to fly a jet first before languishing as an S/O for years. But Logistically I suspect it's not possible at the moment :ugh:

[Flyin Low]

Have the guys on 'yes' letters been offered courses yet?

[Cloud Cutter]

Just spoke to them, 20 pilots to be interviewed in May/June, with more interviews possible in September. The general feeling is also that recruitment will continue steadily from this point rather than grinding to a halt for another few years.

Flyin Low

12 of them have (I think 8 744, 4 772 S/Os). There will be more courses filled soon.

[stillalbatross]

There are still thousands of classics that will operate for another 10 years or so with many of the worlds major carriers.

I hardly see any -200 anywhere I would have thought that Air NZ was the last non 3rd world operator. Are you talking major african carriers?

[UrlocalAZn]

I hardly see any -200 anywhere I would have thought that Air NZ was the last non 3rd world operator. I think that you are referring to the originals (-100s, -200s) classics refer to the -300s, -400s, -500s which were until recently still being built

[BrianCat]

I hardly see any -200 anywhere I would have thought that Air NZ was the last non 3rd world operator.F.Y.I. http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/aboutus/fleet/

[komac2]

Re: Boe 737 - Stuff Business News is reporting a 15th leased 737-300 will be added to the domestic network in Nov, and based on current projections a 16th leased 300 was is also expect in the first quarter of 08.

[MELKBQF]

I've watched a "NZ liveried" 320 be loaded in SYD with baby cans in the forward compartment and bulk loaded in the rear... anyone? Unsure of destination or flight details.

This usually happens when we are short of AKH containers on station.