View Full Version : What FAA Regulation/s would be violated?
Ovation
31st Mar 2007, 12:43
I am not familiar with FAA regulations, so help me on this one.
The facts are:
An Australian registered aircraft on a flight (1) within the continental USA and (2) a flight from continental USA to Hawaii.
An Australian CFI who also has a US licence is Pilot In Command. His Flying School in Australia is NOT authorized to conduct flying training outside of Australia.
The aircraft is a Mooney Ovation with Garmin 1000 and has CSU and retractable U/C, and is flown on an Australian "Special Flight Permit" for the purpose of delivery to Australia, and has a FAA Flight Authorization for flight within the USA.
Both Australian and USA Flight Authorizations states "essential flight crew only".
Carried on the aircraft is an Australian student pilot who has an Australian licence with 3 solo circuits under his belt, no US licence, and not endorsed on CSU or retractable U/C.
Are there any circumstances where the CFI may allow the student to fly the aircraft in the USA? May the CFI give instruction prior to and during the flight? What about the flight from mainland to Hawaii - is it any different?
Would the student meet the requirement for "Essential Flight Crew" and if not, why not?
What FAA regulations would be breached if the student were to fly the aircraft in the USA for take-off, cruise and landing?
If the aircraft is foriegn registered The flight would also require an aerospace waiver from the Transport Security administration. all crew on board as well as all of the stops must be pre-approved by the TSA in advance.
BackPacker
1st Apr 2007, 12:08
Essential flight crew only means just that - only the essential crew may be on board. No passengers, students or whatever. I'm not familar with a Mooney Ovation per se, but if it can be flown, according to the regs, by a single pilot, then "essential crew only" means single pilot. Period.
If the regs says that it is a multi-pilot aircraft (like the Boeings and Airbuses are), then you need two fully qualified pilots on board. If you're flight testing, then the essential testing crew would obviously be allowed on board too. Still no passengers or student pilots.
If the flight is long and there are rules regarding duty time for this particular operation, then I would guess that two (fully qualified) pilots could be carried, one being the relief for the other. Still no student pilots or passengers though.
Furthermore - if the CFI is not registered and/or authorized to conduct training in the US, then the hours that he lets the student pilot fly cannot be considered flight training. For all practical purposes the CFI is just PIC and the student pilot is, well, a passenger along for the ride. So these hours cannot be written into the student pilots logbook and thus cannot be counted towards any experience requirement.
If the student were to fly the aircraft solo, it would be even more interesting. The CFI is not allowed to sign the student off to do solos, the student does not have an FAA class 3 medical (which is the student pilots license as well), the student does not have TSA clearance (required for flight training in the US in any case) and I doubt whether the insurance will cover "flight training" at this stage. I would also expect that the Flight Permit (both AUS and FAA) will specify that only flights may be undertaken for the specific purpose of delivering the aircraft to Australia.
The fact that the CFI has a US license (a CPL or ATPL I guess) doesn't matter one bit, AFAIK. The aircraft is Australian-registered so in principle you need an Australian pilots license to fly it around the world. The fact that the FAA has granted a special permission to fly the aircraft in the US is probably because the Australians have yet to issue a regular CofA. Only aircraft which have an ICAO-compliant CofA will be admitted into or flown in other countries airspace without further paperwork.
I'm not an aviation lawyer specializing in FAA regulations, but I don't think you'll ever going to make legal...
casccadeair
1st Apr 2007, 18:17
OZ reg, OZ crew. The FAA won't care who is at the controls, and the student would certainly meet essential crew. Go for it. Give instruction as needed. Whether the school is authorised outside OZland is unimportant. The instructor is authorised to give instruction in an OZ aircraft to an OZ student. Have fun.
DesiPilot
1st Apr 2007, 21:51
Both Australian and USA Flight Authorizations states "essential flight crew only".
Yes, the Oz rules apply and the Australian authorisation also says "essential flight crew only". Any student pilot is not an essential flight crew. Also check with CASA but under special flying permit, one may not be allowed to conduct flight training.
Like backpacker said, if you want to play it safe don't do it.
Ovation
2nd Apr 2007, 01:21
Yes, the Oz rules apply and the Australian authorisation also says "essential flight crew only". Any student pilot is not an essential flight crew. Also check with CASA but under special flying permit, one may not be allowed to conduct flight training.
OK, I've found one very good reason why the student is not permitted to fly. The Oz Civil Aviation Act 20AB states that any unqualified person must not fly the aircraft Penalty - Imprisonment for 2 years.
By implication the Instructor as PIC is "aiding and abetting" a criminal act for permitting the offence to occur.
Getting very serious indeed!
just trying to get CASA to follow up with and investigation/prosecution might be dificult, unless they are properly motivated they wouldnt work in an iron lung
The FAA won't care who is at the controls
Yes they do, especially on a ferry permit.
Foreign aircraft registration will draw attention every airport you go to.
Maybe even a courtesy visit form the FAA Inspector who happens to be passing by.
and the student would certainly meet essential crew
No he doesn't, he is a student. In a single pilot airplane.
Whether the school is authorized outside OZland is unimportant
Agreed.