PPL in South Africa

[TommyOv]

All,

I'm considering doing my PPL this year in South Africa, but thought I'd dip into the oracle that is the pprune community before taking things further.

Lower costs/impressive scenery aside, I'm led to believe (by a number of flashy websites) that the SA PPL syllabus is similar to the European one, and I will not require too much conversion training once I get back to the UK. Is this the case?

In addition, most websites for flying schools estimate around 5 weeks to complete the PPL. If, for example, I'm unable to get this long off work, would it be worthwhile going for say 3 weeks for some cheaper training, and completing the rest in the UK? Or would any extra lessons I may require make this fairly pointless?

I am wary of taking intensive PPL courses after hearing various horror stories of PPLs trained abroad (especially US), but would be interested to hear if anyone has had any good/bad experience with SA PPLs?

Any thoughts/experiences much appreciated.

Regards,

Tom

[Fuji Abound]

Sounds like fun, and it is a beautiful country.

Interestingly I met a chap last week who had just finished his PPL in SA. He spoke very well of the training, said the weather was superb all the time except that the wind was often strong and on occasions to strong to fly - he was at PE.

The other interesting comment is he said he assumed he would be able to use his PPL in the UK however when I met him he was in the middle of a converison, which was a little more involved than he had been lead to believe - I think he felt the SA school had suggested there was less involved than was actually the case. I cannot tell you exactly why, but it might be worth establishing the position before you go if there is any doubt. I think he also had to get his medical redone.

[S-Works]

You will also be restricted to flying the aircraft that you are type rated to before you convert. Every aicraft flown on a SA PPL has a type rating and not a class rating as with JAR.

So if you learn in a 152 you will only be able to fly a 152 as that is a type rating. To fly a 172 you will need a type rating for that. Irv Lee is your man to ask on SA stuff.

[tangovictor]

I recently had a holiday in SA, & went on a pleasure flight, from Stellenbosch airfield, very friendly laid back folk, I know they also do flight training from there, its just under an hour drive outside Cape Town, if you don't wish to learn in CT( in with the 747's etc ) , message me and I can probably find there address / phone / email etc, if required

[BRL]

Take a look at Irv Lee's great site HERE (http://www.higherplane.flyer.co.uk/). :)

[Heliport]

And PPL training in South Africa (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=174822)

[TommyOv]

Thanks for the replies all. BRL, Heliport, thanks for the links...I had tried a search on here first but clearly my technique needs refining!

Fuji Abound, I had also been led to believe that one can fly on a SA PPL in the UK, this is something I'll check out with the school before committing.

Cheers!

Tom

[Leezyjet]

TommyOv,
You most certainly can fly on a South African PPL in the UK, as it is an ICAO PPL. You just do a standard club check out (which you would have to do if changing clubs on a JAA PPL) and off you go.

The only slight restriction is that you just can't pop off to the continent at the drop of a hat. It takes a little more planning/preparation and getting permission from the various authorities before you can go and as has already been mentioned, you are type rated to the types you trained on however that hasn't been an issue for me, and Irv can do conversions to other a/c types over here if required.

I've had my SA PPL for 2 years (just renewed my medical about 3 hours ago actually) and never had a problem, well except with Multiflight at LBA, but thats another story !!.

I used Algoa for my training. I've been back there about 4 times since to bash some hours out and also get my night rating. Great club and I did my PPL from start to finish in 19 days although I wouldn't recommend doing it that quickly, it was hard work !!.:eek:

Their website is algoafc.co.za but I won't post a direct link for fear of having it deleted as advertising !!.

I chose them as I couldn't find a bad word said about them, and it is true they were fab couldn't really fault them. Also the weather in PE depending on the time of year is similar to what you would get here in the summer, lots of windy days with lots of weather fronts passing through.

I had been mis advised by most UK flying schools that I needed to convert my PPL to JAA before doing my CPL/IR/ME etc but that just isn't true. You can fly just fine on your SA PPL, and when you pass JAA CPL, thats what you get issued so no need to convert at all as you would then be flying on your JAA CPL if that is what you want to do. IIRC you can convert to JAA right away, but you would have to do all the JAA PPL exams, the FROTL and a flight test, but if you wait until you have 100 hours then convert, you only need to do the flight test, 2 exams and the FRTOL test.

The only thing I would do, is email Glynis at Algoa (she knows everything and email is on the website) to check on the status of the SACAA changes that are being proposed which mean that the PPL exam system may change which might put an end to intensive courses such as the one I did with Algoa, although Algoa and most of the other flying training organisations are lobbying heavily against the changes for obvious reasons.

Any other questions feel free to PM me.

:)

[S-Works]

I refer to my posting above about type ratings. You will need a type rating on each type you wish to fly if you are going to operate only on a SA licence. So you either have to make sure you get a type rating for every type you want, C152, C172, PA28 etc or find an SA Instructor in the UK to type convert you. I only know of Irv at the moment.

[Ski Sail Fly]

Some people make a big deal out of the SA type-rating limitation, so it's worth spelling out what it means in practice for SA-trained PPL flying in UK.

In SA, you normally train on a C172, so this is the type you're likely to have on your licence initially. To add another type (e.g. C182), you have to (a) take an open-book test based on the POH (easy but tedious), (b) take a 1.5-hour skills test (turns, stalls, precautionary and forced landings, but not navex) and (c) send an application to SA CAA for the new type. However, it's relatively cheap to do in SA - C182 out there is ~£90/hr wet, so adding C182 rating will be ~£170 including instructor.

Once you get to 100 hours, you can convert to JAA by sitting only three exams (human performance - easy, air law - quite easy as similar to SA, and radio - very easy as almost same as SA) and taking a skills test. To convert before 100 hours, you would need to sit all the exams.

The trick is to decide what types you can live with pre-100 hours and get type ratings for those a/c while you're in SA. If, after passing 100 hours, you want to add more types, then go for the JAA skills test. You can double up the JAA conversion with complex endorsements, to add even more types to your licence at no extra cost. My JAA conversion cost £800 (exams, 2 practice flights + test) and, because I asked them to teach me constant-speed and retractable during the practice flights, I got two complexities endorsed on my licence at the same time. This felt like great value, given that I'd saved £4000 doing my PPL and night rating in SA.

Once you get your UK licence, you then need to decide whether to keep or lapse your SA licence. To fly in SA on JAA PPL, you need to take a skills test including navex (validation lasts one year). Maintaining your SA licence involves a skills test every 2 years + SA medical. So for recreational pilots, my recommendation would be to ditch the SA licence post-conversion unless you plan to fly in Africa at least every two years.

Two tips if you take the SA plunge (and yes, it really is worth it):
1. get your JAA medical done in SA at same time as your SA medical. Adds a mere £10 to the bill.
2. choose a school at a customs airport if you want to fly internationally in Africa (e.g. to Botswana or Namibia - both stunning) after getting your licence. This will save you the faff of having to divert via customs airports in/outbound or having to rent planes from unfamiliar schools.

Hope this is helpful.

SSF

[Fuji Abound]

I wonder how you get on turning up at rental outfits with an SA license knowing how some react to an FAA license.

[IO540]

What is SA training like, given the awful security situation there?

I've been to Durban recently, visiting relatives, and drove around a bit to the mountains etc.

Most whites, and all blacks with more than 2p (and plenty of them about too) live in obvious fear, in houses or multi-resident compounds surrounded by spiked fences and with armed response teams on call.

Admittedly when doing flight training one just goes to the place and gets on with it, without going out anywhere, but in SA one needs to be careful when going alone anywhere. The muggers there don't care much if they shoot you - for a mobile phone.

If going for a non-JAA PPL I would go to Arizona etc every time, despite the visa/TSA hassles. And for a JAA PPL I would go to Spain.

[Leezyjet]

Sorry IO540, bit over the top don't you think.

Yes South Africa has a crime problem, but it is no worse than places in the USA where pretty much the same things can happen.

I have been there 15 times now and never ever had any problems what so ever, but then I always take precautions to ensure I do not become a victim.

Port Elizabeth is a very safe place as long as you don't go wandering into the dodgy areas which every city has, but then you wouldn't go off wandering into the Bronx in New York City either unless you were looking for trouble.

You are just as likely to be mugged in London as in South Africa.

Fuji,

The only problems I have had was with Multiflight at LBA. Everyone else I have used has actually known how to read LASORS.

:ok:

[TommyOv]

Top information...thanks everyone.

The type rating situation I can't see being a problem - I'm more than happy to bimble around in a 152/172 until 100 hours, after which converting to JAA seems fairly straightforward.

Leezyjet - How did you find your 19 day crash course? I'm assuming you did your exams before you went? I have been advised against intensive courses as apparently it's easier to forget things afterwards (?), but I'm planning on flying once every week or so when I come back so I can't really see this being a problem. Most websites advise 5-8 weeks for the PPL, but unless I can get this off work (unlikely) it's either a crash course, or doing half the course in SA and finishing it over here...is this to be recommended? Anyone done this before? In any case I'll certainly get in touch with the chaps at Algoa.

On a related note: exams. I have the Thom series at the moment and am happily plugging through them, but I'd be interested to know the differences in the SA syllabus. There probably is an obvious answer to this question, but would I need to buy a different series for some/all topics? I can't see things like Aerial Nav/Technical changing, obviously, but Air Law, etc?

Thanks for your continued help

:ok:

[skyfiend]

I would definitely recommend SA for PPL training - I trained at 43 Air School in Port Alfred and it was a superb set-up.

Excellent instructors, friendly 'base' atmosphere (it's a converted military air school from WW2), decent grub and superb weather with uncluttered airspace. They fly a fleet of PA28s.

Unfortunately, it's got a fair bit more expensive (I trained for c.£1900 including food and lodgings in 1998 :} ).

I also considered Spain, NZ, USA etc, but SA seemed far more appealing for obvious reasons...

The only downside, as others have mentioned, is the wind and heat. The heat that gets thrown off the rocks anytime beyond 10am can lead to pretty severe turbulence, but you just learn to fly the early and late slots and it is heaven. 6am flights were consistently breathtaking.

You should have enough time with 3 weeks set aside due to the glorious weather. Fly a couple of times a day and with a couple of hours of groundschool inbetween, you fair sing through the PPL course sitting an exam every few days in week 2/3.

The great advantage of the campus / barracks layout is that everyone is talking, eating, sleeping, breathing flying. It's all around you all the time and really helps you to assimilate all the information you are bombarded with.

Do it, do it :ok:

P.S. Progress Flight Academy (PE, I think) had a very good rep too. I flew with a newly qualified PPL from there and I remember thinking he was almost as good as me ;)

[Leezyjet]

Tommy,

It was pretty intensive. I was flying 3, 2 hour flights a day, everyday and studying in between and on an evening as well although I did find the odd night or 2 to take a trip to the Golden Curtain :ok: and various other drinking establishments around the Summerstrand area of Port Elizabeth.

I did all the exams whilst I was down there. At the moment you can sit them all at the school, but that is planned to change which is why I suggested getting in touch with someone in the know as the SACAA are planning on making even PPL studes sit them a regional test centres like they do for the com exams.

I had done some flying a number of years before I went, so I had a good understanding of the basics and progressed in the early lessons fairly quickly.

They normally only use TT 1 for the flying excersises in SA, so you don't need them all. They have their own books for radio and all the other stuff.

I got TT 1,2 and 7 and that was all I have needed. I used TT2 in the met lectures but some things they teach you in SA are different to here because things work different in the Southern Hemisphere.

Glad to hear you will consider Algoa. The other good thing about them is that they are a Flying Club that also teaches so it is more of a club atmosphere and more relaxed than other more commercialised flying schools in SA, and the bar opens at 5pm !!. The club is also a not for profit organisation, so all the money made goes back into the club and the aircraft which has led to all the aircraft being fully refurbished in the last couple of years. They must be doing something right at Algoa as they just celebrated their 50th anniversary last November - not many other flying clubs can say that.

:)

[Ski Sail Fly]

Tommy,

You asked about splitting training between SA and UK.

If you want to consider this, check LASORS and talk to your chosen UK school about completing your training before you head off to SA. SA and JAA training requirements are very similar, but not identical, and I've heard horror stories of students with incomplete overseas training having to repeat a lot of stuff in UK. Plausible explanations include (a) UK CAA doesn't recognise overseas training hours in full, (b) UK schools are pedantic and (c) old wives' tales being spun to discourage Brits from training abroad. Not sure which one is right, so worth investigating further before embarking on this option.

Good luck!

SSF