Sad demise of Perth DC3 Operator

[LooseSeal]

The DC3 scenic operator at Perth, "Classic Wings" appears to have ceased operations.:( Very suprised they couldn't get the support to keep it running.

Does anyone know if it is permanent or are they likely to reappear at a later date? Still love to go for a spin in the old bird...

[Hawk777]

I think you'll find its not due to lack of customers or aircraft issues rather an AOC issue. They were operating under another eastern states DC 3 operator's AOC who have had their's cancelled or suspended and hence Classic Wings cannot fly.

[astinapilot]

Word is unfortunately also financial issues and a run of bad luck. Unexpected maintainence and incidents on her kept it unflyable = no cashflow= problems

Like any new airline the cost estimates tend to skyrocket and if you cannot hold out for delays/breakdowns then its all over. The old adage stands true I feel, big fortune to small (no) fortune.

[BrazDriver]

I was waiting to go for a ride on that sexy aircraft! :{

I wish them all the best and hope they get it in the sky where it belongs!! :ok:

[the wizard of auz]

I dearly hope they get it up and going again.
the young bloke seemed to have plenty of drive and it would be sad to see it wasted on a run of bad luck. good on him for giving it a bash. :ok:

[Arm out the window]

Unfortunately the big radials tend to have quite a few failures of various kinds, especially these days when there's not that many of them around so the in-depth maintenance knowledge is harder to come by.
Reliability for day after day trouble-free (or at least not much trouble) operation would have to be a major factor in running a business like that, I wouldn't like the sleepless nights wondering when the next unscheduled maintenance was going to be needed - not saying that's what may or may not be the case here, but in my experience your chances of doing a day's flying as planned with that kind of engine are quite a bit slimmer than with more modern kinds, sadly.

[brown_hornet]

Had the pleasure of going on a scenic flight in said aircraft, was without a doubt one of the best flying experiences i've ever had. Very professional and the amount of effort they've put into the operation they really deserve better than this. Fantastic idea, if only the old DC3 agreed. Hope it all works out.

[Engineer_aus]

Should be in the air soon according to the website www.classicwings.com.au so Braz driver, you may get your flight

[notmyC150v2]

One of aviations greatest treats would have to be flying in one of these great birds.

Still treasure the memory of the bushies captain letting me sit in the LHS on the way to Weipa on my last flight out of Aurukun. No real risk, I was the only passenger.

I hope they get it back in the air soon. I have to go to Perth for work occassionally and was looking forward to lining up a flight next time I was over.

[tinpis]

I knew that ugly old bugger in the middle when he was a DC3 lik lik boi EFFO for Ansett MAL

http://www.classicwings.com.au/Bill_David_Dennis_1_cockpit.jpg

bihain longtaim eh Dennis? :uhoh::{

[Skystar320]

Help! That just freaked me out! 3 grown men staring back at me.......

[Zhaadum]

So when did it last fly? I have NEVER seen a DC-3 flying in Perth or Jandakot in the last 4 years I have been there. There was one parked at Jandakot but I never saw it move.

[Capt Wally]

I know this is a bit of a thread drift but seeing as we are talking about round engined planes & those from AN that may have flwon them has anybody heard of the whereabouts of one Keith Hants? He used to fly for Ansett ( I believe he shook an engine off the airframe that was dangling anyway into the bay, DC 4 or 6 I think?) & latter run the old steam driven flight sim at the end of the southern fingerway at YMEN back in the 80's?
Nice guy, loved a chat & had stories that brought a smile to ones face:)
Terrific guy, real genuine charactor.


CW

[AerocatS2A]

Zhaadum, I saw a DC3 taking off from Perth a few weeks ago. I get into Perth once every couple of months. Maybe you just have poor aircraft recognition skills.

[ABX]

Zhaadum,

So when did it last fly?

March the 8th according to their website.

Click here to read for yourself. (http://www.classicwings.com.au/news.html)

[Fantome]

Here you go Wal -

http://www.aussieairliners.org/scrapbook/dc-6/vhinasaga.html

[Van Gough]

As much as I would love it to succeed, I can't help but think that Perth is the wrong place for an op like that...

If you think how much the hourly rate would be to run an old DC3 then factor wages and everything else into it, you would need some decent loads on a regular basis to break even..and Perth doesn't have the population to sustain it (IMO)

[Capt Wally]

fantome thanks a lot for that link. I remember doing my initial IF training with him in that "Link" trainer I think it was called. How he used to 'spoon' feed it to keep it going on that bed of air!:bored:
A quick look back in an old logbook showed 1983, AT34 Trainer, ahh can almost hear the guy now:)
A most warm & friendly guy a man that you cannot pass without a chat.
I hope he's well & still talking the leg off a rocking chair:D!



CW

[skyways]

The market research, and indeed the flying that CWS did while she was operational the first time, shows and showed that Perth really does have the base to sustain the operation.

Yes, she can be expensive to run, but not as much as some people believe - and most people would guess that yes, maintenance is one of the biggest costs in the operation, but a big way of saving money is to be preventative in maintenance, in particular with regards to engine handling. Classic Wings crews are incredibly lucky to be able to draw on the experience of Pionair and Southern DC-3 Trust crews with the operation of CWS. After all, she was the pride of those crews for 13 years, let alone the other 2 Daks to go with it, and all gave and still give brilliant service to those operators.

The aeroplane is still very airworthy, she is run every couple of weeks and flown usually once a month or so to ensure that everything works properly - and yes that was her you saw at Perth a few weeks ago, getting some crew currency up in preparation for some checks and the proving flight. Yes, we are that close.

I will never deny that we made mistakes, yes we did, but we have learnt from them. And it is from this learning that the operation will be even better the second time around.

Any sane person would have given up by now, but if it is possible to fall in love with a machine then, hey, we have, and so we won't give up on it.

The support we have received from a lot of people is amazing, and we are very hopeful that support will continue during the restart of the operation.

We have managed to break, saw, cut, bite, get through the last bits of red tape - and I know that most will be stunned as to what has had to happen - and as soon as those last two points are complete, there'll be an operational DC-3 in Perth again (and you'll get your flights!)

And how do I know this stuff? I'm the guy sitting in the right hand seat...

[BrazDriver]

I was at ''Shakespere in the Park'' (Kings Park) last year. Mrs Braz dragged me along. That old girl doing orbits of the city at night - the actors could not compete! It was music to my ears! Thanks lads!!

I will be going for a ride in the beast when it is up and running! Congrats to all involved!!!

[ABX]

skyways,

All the very best for your second attempt mate.

I assume that the red tape you are wading through is an application for your own AOC?

I look forward to hearing that you are off the ground once again.

Cheers,

ABX:ok:

[Wombat35]

Good luck mate! Hope things work out for you.

Nothing like the satisfaction of firing up the 1830 without a backfire :}

Great feeling setting 48 inches and listing to the roar of 14 pistons trying to destroy themselves :}

and I always smile when I feel the rumble of the tailwheel touch after a greased wheeler :p

Although, trying to turn against 20 knots of wind :mad:

GO ZK-DAK :D:D (that's our DC3 in Auckland)

[Led Zep]

Had the pleasure of flying with Classic Wings, even if poor CWS was U/S due to a bit too much hot air being directed its rudder from a 727.
Professional and friendly and Mrs Zep still raves about the meal we had on board. The man in the right hand seat sure knows about customer service.

skyways, I cannot wait for you to get back in the air - because we're coming back! :ok:

[Van Gough]

I wish you all the best with it ! Me and my wife will definately be going for a ride when you start up again:ok:

[skyways]

Well ladies and gents, its finally happened - the AOC is through and we can start flying the Dak again!

Its taken a lot longer than we thought, and its been a very interesting experience to say the least, but we have been lucky enough to get support and assistance from occasionally some rather surprising places (and those people know who they are) which has got us over the line. If anyone wants to hear the story, well, you'll just have to come for a fly and then sit down and have a drink with us after the flight.... ;)

The main thing for us to do now is to get her flying with people on board - if you had planned to come for a fly last time around, or have decided since then, please contact us to book. I won't deny that the time this has taken has taken a huge toll on us - nothing unrecoverable, but any help we can get to keep CWS in the air and doing her thing for another 65 years would be and will be much appreciated.

:)

[RadioSaigon]

Congratulations Skyways, and all the best. CWS is a magical and graceful old lady. I'll be looking for ya's next time I'm in the area.

:ok:

[T28D]

Good deal, great to see her in the air again, Round Engines Rock.

[Howabout]

Good luck Skyways. I had many an intersesting flight on DC-3s and, like many others here, love them to death.

An Air Force test pilot once told me that the aircraft doesn't actually have an airframe life, because when they were designed nobody knew how strong an airframe had to be. Consequently, the the main spar is enormous, the aircraft is rivetted to buggery and, in theory, it could fly forever - providing that you can keep the spares up with what's needed.

Nothing like two radials welded to an indestructible airframe.

[wombat four]

The silly old goat in the middle is my old mate from PNG, a wantok tru , he and his family are mixed up with DC-3, and I wish them well, as I hope you all do.

As an F/O, in PNG in the 70,s I was lucky enough to get just over 550 hours on the DC-3 , a great old Bird to fly.

Cheers,

W4

[that chinese fella]

Hey Skystar,

What about the folks, like me, who did their money on your mob last time around when it turned turtle? :(

TCF

[skyways]

TCF,

As far as I was aware we took care of everyone's refunds when we had to suspend before. But, if we missed you out, first of all my apologies, and please get in touch with us with the details so we can organise to sort that out!

[Tee Emm]

has anybody heard of the whereabouts of one Keith Hants? He used to fly for Ansett

Regretfully, Keith Hants died about three years ago in Melbourne.

[BrazDriver]

Best of luck! I cant wait for a spin in the old girl!

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Thankyou David.

SOOOO nice to hear - we will be your customers a couple of times at least when you resume.....:ok::ok:

All the Best!!:ok::ok:

[wombat four]

When I was a junior F/O in Ansett in the 70's, Capt. Keith Hants, was one of the most respected Captain's in Ansett.


Cheers,

W4

[that chinese fella]

Thanks Skyways, appreciate the offer, I will be in touch.

TCF

[elche]

Caught up with the DC3 at YMDG in Feb '06...
YouTube - Pionair C47A (DC3) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKa0l5GNNmY)

What an amazing aircraft she is - She looked and sounded amazing! :ok:
The bus driver that dropped the pax off told me that after that flight it was going to be flown over to Perth. If I ever am in W.A I will definitely have to go for a ride! :cool:

[the wizard of auz]

I heard the old girl had some interesting times in Cunderdin whilst undergoing the AOC process. glad it all worked out. I'll be getting a seat aboard the old girl in the near future.
Good luck with the second round. :ok:

[scrufflefish]

Could the mods re-title this thread? Its a bit misleading the way it is.

[tinpis]

Good result.:ok:
Many happy oil leaks!

Nice Dak photo..
Makes me wanna be somewhere else..:{
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/El_gran_roque.jpg

http://www.douglasdc3.com/lamb1/ship.jpg

[ABX]

David, all the best mate, you seem to have the grit and drive required to make a go of business - and I hope it goes well for you.

Perhaps you could post a few videos of the old girl to youtube then post the links here so we can all have a look at what it is that you offer. I know that I would enjoy watching footage of the DC3 in action.

Once again, all the best.

ABX:ok:

[sixtiesrelic]

Nice that you can surprise the doom and gloomers Skyways.
I agree Perth has a small population, but it has a large tourist population. That's where the money spenders are.
How many people are paying $115 to just wander through and out on the wing of the Jumbo in Longreach?
Bloody lots from what I hear and you have to pay again to look in the 707, I am told.
Most Easterners get a bit of a surprise at the size of the South West corner and the travel time to "nick down" to say, Margaret River... all day with about seven or eight hours driving.
Costs not much less to rent a car and do the tour that's on offer with a DC-3 ride included.
Been for one of those trips and it's nothing like the sterile people moooovers of today. Freedom to take photos all around the old girl on the ground and freedom to move around the cabin and have a turn at looking out the bubble window where you have your head way over the side with out having your hair blown.
The pilots aren't "hidden away up there" you get to talk to them and they're a font of information and pretty chuffed to share a magic aeroplane with everybody.
Congrats on sticking in there Classic Wings