Oh Ma Gawd!

[2close]

Well guys, as a 400 hour PPL with ATPLs completed I've finally started the FI course and at the end of Week 1 I am beginning to wonder whether I'm still on planet earth.:confused:

I never imagined in my wildest dreams it would be this difficult and without wishing to blow smoke up anyone's most hallowed regions I most definitely see all FIs in a completely different light, my already high level of respect having risen ten-fold!

I have without a doubt entered a new world and face the next couple of months with much trepidation.:ugh:

I'm clear that you have to walk before you can run and I am sure there will come a point somewhere along the line where the penny drops, the light comes on and it all clicks into place but from where I stand now it looks oh so far away.

I've bought 'The FI's Patter Manual' and 'You Have Control' so now to my question, any tips or tricks of the trade from you guys (and gals) who have already been in this position - did it seem like an insurmountable hill to any of you early on and how did you get it all to work out?

Cheers,

2close:ok:

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi 2close,

If you visit the CASA website, you can find the CASA official flying instructor's manual which you can download free of charge.

I haven't read it myself, so don't know how good it is, but being an official Australian Government document it should be pretty good and well worth adding to your professional library.

Broomstick.

[StarTrek Manipulator]

Hi 2close,

All I can say is prepare well, work hard and enjoy yourself. The FI course was one of the most enjoyable and informative ratings I ever did and the beauty of it is the 'real' learning starts when you have actual students with you, in the air, or in the classroom.:)

[wingbar]

I can say that, out of all the peeps taken on recently at my company, the ones with the best natural general handling skills where those who were from the FI background.
This was evident in the circuit training, the only person not from an FI background, still cant land the aircraft without removing somebodys fillings!
The FI route is good stuff and it was the most fun I had to date in my flying career, I now fly for an airline...
WB

[FlyingForFun]

2close,
I never imagined in my wildest dreams it would be this difficult and without wishing to blow smoke up anyone's most hallowed regions I most definitely see all FIs in a completely different light, my already high level of respect having risen ten-fold
Well, thanks! :O But what exactly is it that's making you feel this way?

If it's the whole general idea of teaching someone to fly, then my advice is, once you start working as an FI, just do exactly what you were taught on your FIC. It's incredible to believe, but the techniques which you are being taught now really do work, and if you follow it to the letter your students will go on to become good pilots. As you gain experience, you will naturally start to add your own personal touch to the way you teach.

If there's something more specific, then give us a clue and I'll see if I can provide some more specific advice!

Good luck!

FFF
----------------

[Whirlybird]

I never imagined in my wildest dreams it would be this difficult

Ah yes, that took me back a bit. I did the rotary FI course, so it was a bit different. But I found it horrendously difficult, the whole thing. I was convinced I'd never be able to fly well enough, and never ever be able to teach anyone!!!

Looking back now, four years later, I can see that these feelings said more about me and my own lack of confidence than about my flying or potential teaching ability. And I wasn't used to being pushed to my own limits, by someone who flew better than I probably ever will. It was probably the best course I've ever done...though it definitely didn't feel like it at the time. :( And instructing, which was hard in the beginning, got easier...and I love it!

Hang in there. And if you've got any more specific questions, ask on here. My friends on PPRuNe kept me sane during my course.

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi 2close,

Provided you aren't too washed out at the end of each day, why not write an FI diary on Pprune? Then we can all see what you're up against.

I'm sure it would help many others intending to become FIs.

Broomstick.

[Craggenmore]

I've bought 'The FI's Patter Manual' and 'You Have Control' so now to my question, any tips or tricks of the trade from you guys (and gals) who have already been in this position - did it seem like an insurmountable hill to any of you early on and how did you get it all to work out?
Simple one this........If you read books on the side then it will feel like an insurmountable hill so do not read anything whilst completing the course. Listen to your FI Instructor and just follow his briefs and flying lessons. Then when you pass and get on line as an instructor then that is the time to dip into helpful books such as the ones you have mentioned.

Good luck, ditch the private reading and all will become clear :)

[Jinkster]

Yes its different - but remember, just like your driving test. You actually start to learn once you have passed!

Good luck:)

[Evilbob]

The first few trips are always the hardest.

My instructor told me that most people make a right mess of the first five hours ( you know the kind of errors, tongue tied or sprouting :mad: that makes no sense, getting lost while doing the teach, or missing out valuable bits of the exercise/doing it in the wrong order), and then it all suddenly comes together.

And it did. I wondered at the begining whether I would be able to complete the course, but after the initail five hours it all started to fall in to place. I'm not saying I stopped making mistakes, but it suddenly seemed achievable.

Keep at it, your going to be qualified for the all important summer season.:ok:

[2close]

My most sincere thanks to you all for your words of encouragement.

Knowing that I'm not the first to have felt this way gives me hope that all is not lost (not that I really felt it was a forlorn ambition - I'm not prone to giving in that easily - just that it seemed somewhat harder than originally anticipated).

I think (from my own perspective at least) my biggest problem was, not having done any formal primary level training for quite some time, what now comes naturally to me as a single action I am now having to think about as I dissect each lesson into its composite parts and I am having to concentrate so much on my own flying that thinking about teaching someone else at the same time seemed a nigh on impossibility. Who ever invented multi-tasking???

But I take on board all that has been said (written) and I will attempt to try to write a diary - maybe that will help others and at the same time provoke some constructive criticism.:{

Thanks again,

2close

[fireflybob]

Yes been there and got the t-shirt etc. Recall my FI course in 1970s and it was hard going at first but the joy of instructing later was well worth the effort! My students taught me so much (and still do!).

One bit of advice - the most important words in flying instruction are "I have control"!

[kloe]

fireflybob,

I would like to ask you if you are a career flight instructor? Have you instructed since the 70's and do you still love it? Any suggestions to new guys like myself would be appreciated.

kloe with thanks

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

2Close,

I think most people go through this at various stepping stones along the whole pilot training process. I remember thinking on my first PPL lesson 'how the hell am I going to fly this bloody thing on my own!'.

You will find, like anything as you move through the FIC it will start to slot into place, with regard to your flying and the patter. I found mutual flying of great benefit. I still do it with FI students, its a lot of fun. I particularly like doing fully developed stalls, and 'forgetting' that I shouldn't be applying a boot full of rudder at the stall ;), to see the guy in the right hand seat go green :eek:.

When you have done your test (which you will no doubt learn alot, I did) you will develop your own style using what you have been taught as a framework, to get the vital points across. After a while you will be flying the aircraft with about 10% of your brain, leaving the other 90% to do other things :).

Enjoy it, it really is a lot of fun.

Cheers.

[fireflybob]

fireflybob,

I would like to ask you if you are a career flight instructor? Have you instructed since the 70's and do you still love it? Any suggestions to new guys like myself would be appreciated.

kloe with thanks

No but I am employed professionally in aviation and instruct part-time but, without a doubt, instructing has been among the most enjoyable flying I have ever done. I think it's because you have an "end product" (the student) and, as everyone is different and has different challenges you have to tailor your approach to the situation.

Personally I believe that much is taught by example. Walk the talk and students will copy what you do rather than what you say!

[Sleeve Wing]

kloe.
What fireflybob doesn't mention is that he continued to teach after PPL instructing, but at a different level, before he came back to it.
My career followed a similar course and, yes, PPL teaching/examining provides a different sort of satisfaction to the role of a Training Captain ; thoroughly rewarding to see your young lads make good with their first professional job.
What he also didn't mention was that his Dad was one of the best, most understanding instructor/examiners I ever met.
Human Factors/ CRM ? His Dad invented it !! :ok:

[P.Pilcher]

Yeah - I had the privelege of being taught to instruct by his Dad myself (I'll just stop for a slice of apple and a cup of tea) I don't think that CRM had been invented back in those days, but to his Dad, the principles of it were instinctive and he exuded them. What a master of his craft!

Another one about him and his Dad:

It was one of those horrible gusty, turbulent days with a cloudbase in the region of 500'. A B737 was waiting at the hold of a certain midlands runway awaiting clearance to enter. The reason for the hold soon becomes obvious as a Cessna 150 appears from the murk infront of the 737, executes a touch and go and then disappears back into it.
Captain to first officer: "Who on earth would be flying a thing lile that in weather like this?"
"That was my Dad sir." replied a somewhat embarassed first officer.
(I got the story from the captain)

P.P.

[fireflybob]

PP Yes I remember it well! Rumour has it the story got back to the CAA the next day!

Happy Days! We learned so much from him and he made the whole experience enjoyable.

[2close]

Okey dokey,

We are now at the end of Week 3 and let's see where we are.....

Mmmmmmmmmmmm........

Thinks..........................

Oh. Ma Gawd!!!!!!

Well, owing to mother nature I have managed 11 hours of flying here and there but at least lots of groundschool has been rummaged through.

I seem to have settled into the Ground Briefings fairly comfortably but being a tad older, with a fair bit of experience, civil and military, of standing in front of people and making a complete t*t of myself, I could be seen to have a bit of an advantage (at making a complete t*t of myself!).

I wish as much could be said for the flying side of things. I am still finding this very difficult. I don't think that the fragmented flying training is helping but there's nothing that can be done about that and we have to get on with it - at least the time on the ground is being used productively (Pro Pilot Wannabee whingers pay attention!!). I have a fellow student and we use the time to practice on each other - that sounds dodgy!!.

The biggest problem is that, over the years I have obviously developed my own ways of doing things and now having to undo those traits and re-learn 'the book' way of doing things is taking so much of my concentration that I am having trouble levelling an equal amount of concentration on learning the instruction of the lesson. I think a few hours of 'back to basics' before the course would have gone a long way.

Added to this I have changed aircraft types but this isn't a major factor for me as I've always been fairly comfortable jumping from one aircraft to another, however, it may be a problem for someone else so any prospective FI(R) students should think carefully about (a) what you fly now, (b) what you may be training on and (c) what you will be teaching on in the future (if you already have a job to go on).

What I am having a very BIG problem with (and this is not the first time this has manifested iself) is that I cannot seem to treat my instructor as a student and have trouble treating the 'give back' sessions as real lessons. I have never been good at artificial scenarios and perform far better at the real thing. The result if that the whole experience is far too mechanical and I am not able to relax.

The good news is that, having discussed these issues with my instructors, I have been assured that I am not experiencing anything new. My feelings, fears and frustrations have been shared by many in the past and that, around the 22 - 24 hour mark a bright light will appear and the penny will drop.

More good news is that my own flying is improving (slowly) and that, by the end of the course I am certain that all the bad habits developed over the years will have been relegated to the bin and the cobwebs will have been dusted off.

So, ending on those positive notes (see, I have learned something), watch this space for further developments in the tales of a sproggy FI(R) student!!

TTFN

2close

[P.Pilcher]

2 close: Yes these scenarios of you practicing the "patter" back to your FIC instructor are a bit artificial, but a very necessary part of the course which you will see the benefit from in the end.

A little story to give you confidence:

Once I had completed my course with Firefly Bob's Dad and (somehow) passed my test, I had the problem of taking my first real student aloft. As I had had a job agreed from well before I started my course, I rapidly found myself being conducted from my home to the airport in my first student's luxury Jaguar! During the ride, I learned that he wanted to practice circuits and landings, had flown a few, but hadn't managed to land it himself yet. I started to get worried. "At what point do I take control off him when he can't land it?" I thought. "I have practiced every aspect of circuit flying, discussed it all at length, but never actually practiced taking over control just before it all goes pear shaped".
Eventually we arrived at the airfield. The club aircraft was extracted from the hanger, fuelled and my student did an excellent "Check A" We got in and started up - again no problems, but I was really getting worried and trying my best not to show it! We taxied over to the runway:"There is nothing for it now, I suppose, here we go." I thought as studend executed an excellent takeoff.
As we proceeded around the circuit, I got more and more worried about my situation, but we were soon on final approach, nicely set up for the landing. On we flew, lower and lower. "Now's the time for the flare," I thought, but nothing happened. Eventually we were getting very close to terra firma and without thinking, found myself pulling back on the control column, and opening the throttle. The aircraft touched down heavily on its mainwheels and bounced back into the air. In the climbout I debriefed my student as to what he had done wrong and the lesson continued without problems. My worries had evaporated and a few months later said student had a large grin on his face when, as a result of my work amongst others he opend an envelope from the C.A.A. containing his PPL.

You see, sometimes you don't know what you are learning on these FIC courses, but they have stood the test of time. Relax and enjoy it!

P.P.

[Whirlybird]

What I am having a very BIG problem with (and this is not the first time this has manifested iself) is that I cannot seem to treat my instructor as a student and have trouble treating the 'give back' sessions as real lessons. I have never been good at artificial scenarios and perform far better at the real thing. The result if that the whole experience is far too mechanical and I am not able to relax.

Ah yes, that takes me right back to my course. There I was, trying to take seriously the fact that I was supposed to be teaching the effects of controls...to a 30,000 hour instructor who flew helicopters better than I ever will (he'd started in his teens and was around 60; I started too late in life to ever get that kind of experience). Sure, it's crazy and unreal. And you're not the only one who hates role-playing. But it does get you used to flying and talking...and listening out on the radio and noting where you are, all at the same time. Because what happens once you're doing it for real - at least it did for me - is that the flying and teaching goes OK, but you get lost and miss radio calls! So a lot of what the FI course is about is just learning to go through the motions of doing more things at once than you ever believed a human being could....and without someone possibly trying to kill you as well (that comes later).

Sounds like it's going well. Keep telling us about it. If it's any help, I did a diary thread about my FI course a few years ago. It's on Rotorheads somewhere, but it's hard to find because it got incorporated in another thread later on....come to think of it, maybe just as well, from my point of view. :(

[FlyingForFun]

2close,

Do you have any notes you take with you into the aircraft?

For each of the exercises, I used to have an A5 piece of paper which listed the individual elements of the exercise one by one, with some key phrases for the patter. I found that invaluable throughout my FI training and in the first few months as an FI, since it meant I didn't need to worry about remembering exactly what I was supposed to be doing!

FFF
---------------

[Flintstone]

2Close. It will come at its own pace and by the sound of it you're finding that already.

I too was a bit of a late starter and had trouble with the role play thing. I still do now, in fact I hate it. As for the patter I used to practise continuously, talk to myself walking around the supermarket, driving, whatever. Got some odd looks but it worked for me.

Don't be in too much of a hurry to ditch your own way of doing things (within reason) as it's the personal differences that make the lessons interesting. Flexibility too. As one who never got on well with formulae (translation: never understood them) I used to find it easy to reduce briefings and ground school to the lowest common denominator as that was usually me! Many students would look at me as if I'd lost the plot when I spoke of having three bananas of lift on one side of the equation and three bananas of weight on the other (often followed by the dawn of understanding). Who says it has to be complicated?

Good luck and I hope you enjoy it. Instructing was my most enjoyable flying if not quite the best paid.;)

[fireflybob]

Remember also that simplicity is evidence of the most advanced form of teaching!

[muffin]

A very interesting thread - as I start my own course next week. I also have not been in a training environment for more years than I care to think about, so I am keen to see how I cope. The FIC instructor warned me not to under estimate what I was taking on, and reading these comments seems to reinforce this view. I am however looking forward to it immensely as it will make a nice change from my normal routine.

[2close]

Well troops, the course is plodding along, albeit at a far slower pace than desired or anticipated but mother nature can be cruel, even when the earth dwellers think that "it's a byootiful spring day" so more time has been spent in the classroom practising briefings and going over groundschool time and time again.

But yesterday and today have been somewhat invigorating and encouraging and I felt quite comfortable this afternoon 'giving back' Stalling 1, even if I did invent a new symptom of an approaching stall.

Earlier this afternoon I played student for a fellow FI student whilst he gave back PFLs. Now I'm not sure whether this should be in this thread or the 'Funny Comments by Students' thread but having selected a 'suitable' field around which to demonstrate the circuit to be flown I questioned him for verification of the actual field, only be told 'the green one with the trees'. I burst out laughing - he looked at me quizzically then the penny dropped. What made it even funnier is the fact that, only this morning I said exactly the same when asked by my FIC to identify a suitable field.

What a pair of muppets!!

Is there any hope for our future students??????

[DRJAD]

Don't be in too much of a hurry to ditch your own way of doing things (within reason) as it's the personal differences that make the lessons interesting.
As a fairly recently ex-student (PPL-2002, IMCR-2003), may I add my encouragement and also endorse the point behind Flintstone's remark quoted above?

I had to privilege of flying with some really, really good instructors (in my view), as well as with some not quite so talented - though I might add, I flew with no bad instructors. Of course, with renewals, and checkouts, and differences training, type ratings, etc., one still has the benefit of instructor input at various times.

Some decry training with anything but one constant instructor. I am not one of those, I found the stimulus of the differing ways of doing and describing things from different instructors very valuable - and thoroughly to be recommended. Appreciation of difference is a facet of being human, and must be a vital component of any programme of learning, whether it be academic learning or the acquisition of a physical skill.

[corsair]

Funnily enough I had less trouble with the role playing in the air than the ground brief. I couldn't shake the sense that I was digging a big hole and my intructor was about to push me into it!

My biggest scary moment was during the ground school part where I had to stand up in front of everyone for a briefing. At that point the my future boss came in and stood at the back. He's a loud individual and I nearly melted. He threw in some pointed questions but in the end I parried him nicely and eventually sat down feeling like I'd got away with it.

After that, students were easy.