C402/C404 Endorsement?

[160knots]

Anybody know where I can get the above endorsement in Melbourne?

[downwind]

hi,

Australasian jet at essendon try them
:)

[el_capitano]

Howdy all,

Having problems getting an endorsement on the 402 in Sydney, besides Melbourne does any one know any where else in OZ where I can get a 402/04 endorsement.

Rgds,
el_capitano

[Chimbu chuckles]

They are two different endorsements...

[GoNorth]

Actually they are under the one sticker....

[Continental-520]

Yeah it's listed in my logbook as C402/421 Class, issued by a CASA FOI.

The question is though, should they be under the one sticker, because frankly, to go from a C402A or B model into a C404 or 421 (or vice versa) with no prior experience on type is like going from a Duchess into a Baron, I reckon, and they of course have seperate endorsements.

C310/402A&B and C402C/404 endorsements would have made more sense in my mind.


520.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Now that's interesting!

My old DCA licence says C401/411.

My new CASA licence says C402/421.

I think it actually covers all the C400 series but you need the presurisation endorsement for the 414 and 421.

Dr:cool:

[Continental-520]

That's what my experience was.


520.

[Fission]

The 401/411 does let you fly the 404. Was bit of an eye opener when I was told that, but the move from the 401 to the 404 was quite easy - stacks more power and the roar - awesome. Watch out for mis-firing tho - the gearing hates it :)


Free Beer - Tomorrow

[Chimbu chuckles]

That's interesting...I used to have endorsement approvals for 402 and 404...and they were considered different types...in PNG at least...and in those days they just copied Aus.

To group 402 and 404 together is actually a bit silly...but then who would let you fly one only on the basis of the other...particularly 402->404. Very different engines...treat a 404 like a 402 and make very expensive noises.

[kingtoad]

'tis my understanding that the C400 series endo gives all but C404. C404 is a different endo ... but things may have changed.

Obviously need pressurisation endo to fly C414/421.

I'd suggest finding a C414 to do it in - the cheapest of the press'd ones.
It's amazing what 310hp per side will do to a well designed airframe and wing ....

[Howard Hughes]

Just checked my log books, when my endorsement was initially issued around 10 years ago it was stamped 401/411, which covered 401, 402, 404, & 411 (All Models). In the intervening period my licence has been changed to read 402/421 which according to CAO 40, covers 401, 402, 404, 411, 414 & 421 (All Models).

To my knowledge the 404 has always been grouped with the other Cessna 400 models.

Cheers, HH.:ok:

[Brian Abraham]

And if you got an endorsement on the 182 it automatically gave you 180 and 185 as well. Now that could really hurt. :ouch:

[Jawz]

If you can get to Adelaide, try Richard Higgins at Air South.

Well worth the trip to learn off this guy.

[an3_bolt]

Refer aeroplanes included in classes CAO 40.1.0 Appendix 1B
23. C402/421

CESSNA 401 (all models)
CESSNA 402 (all models)
CESSNA 404 (TITAN) (all models)
CESSNA 411 (all models)
CESSNA 414 (all models)
CESSNA 421 (GOLDEN EAGLE) (all models)

Disclaimer: I take no resposibility for the use of this information, the validity or currency included. Any legal ramification is the resposibility of the individual. ie check it for yourself.

[Jamair]

Jeez team, it's just a flamin piston twin......:rolleyes:

As Gaunty would say, you could give the keys to any 400 piston Cessna to any reasonably competent driver without too many reservations - though whether the owners insurer would see the funny side would be a question:p (actually I think Gaunty usually says something like 'my granma could drive one....')

Endorsement for a 182??:confused: No such animal. It comes under SE(A) <5700kg with the requirement for any special design features (CSU, RG, Conventional U/C [taildragger] etc). 180 and 185 being conventional <5700kg, they only need a CSU / taildragger SDF rating.

As for where - you can get a C414 endo at CDR with QAS, gives you 402/421 + Pressurisation.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

"And if you got an endorsement on the 182 it automatically gave you 180 and 185 as well. Now that could really hurt"

Yes, that one was quite amusing!

Dr:cool:

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

I think Hemples at Archerfield have a C402B.

Dr:cool:

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

"you could give the keys to any 400 piston Cessna to any reasonably competent driver without too many reservations"

Well I guess that excludes me!

After peddling a C402B around for quite a few hours, I once jumped in an older one (C401, C402 or C402A ??? - short nose and round windows) to do a ferry flight. On climb out I reached down and flicked the electric fuel pump off on the left engine - and it died. Flicked it back on and it ran normally. OK, I thought, must have a dead mechanical fuel pump. Wheeled it around and headed back to the aerodrome. Looked down and realised that I was turning the magnetos off on the left engine cause in that model they are in the same place as the fuel pumps in the C402B. Turned back around and headed off on my merry way.

The moral of the story? Look before you "flick"!

Dr:cool:

[av8trflying]

Peoples,

Does anyone know where i can get a Cessna 421 endo as well as the seperate pressurisation endo in Queensland?

Any info much appreciated.:ok:

AV8

[Brian Abraham]

A bit over the border but Coast Jet at Port Macquarie show a 421B available for charter. Guess they would do endorsements as well.

[higherplane]

"C310/402A&B and C402C/404 endorsements would have made more sense in my mind. "

I agree Continental-520. The systems in a 402c have a greater similarity to a 404 than a 402b. I haven't flown a 310, but it sounds like it has the same somewhat interesting fuel system the 402b has.

[the wizard of auz]

I have 402/421 in my log book and had no problem jumping to the 404. I only ever flew the 402 once after the endo, and went back to the 310, then straight into the 404. It is a very easy aircraft to fly with a couple of little idiosyncrasies. any one that has flown any 300 or 400 series airplane will fly it without a problem. You will get shown around the GTISO during your check ride with the company before they let you loose in it in most cases any way.

[av8trflying]

Thanks Brian,

Sent them an email and just waiting on a reply.

So no one knows anyone in QLD who can do a Cessna 421 endo or can i just get a 402 endo and do the pressurisation seperate???:sad:

[300Series]

According to the CAO's you could just do the 402 endorsement, then all you need is the special design feature endorsement i.e pressurisation system, which you could do on a pressurised 210.

300

[DanArcher]

which you could do on a pressurised 210.


yikes.... I imagine a P210 would be quite hard to find in oz, only ever seen the one privatley owned at ymmb & it was for sale at the time

[the captain]

For FNQ try Hinterland or Barrier in Cairns....both have C402 and the former one has 404 and 402

[av8trflying]

Thanks guys, much appreciated.


Will give them a call.

:ok::ok:

[Spotlight]

To complete this thread!

Yes the Titan 404, used to be a seperate endorsement to the 401/411 that many of us had. Seperate design features as in hydraulic gear system and the geared propellors. The 402C is a close cousin.

In 1994 the CAO was changed and the 404 was included into the new class 401/421 with no seperate proviso. 414 and 421 had the pressurisation proviso.

I know this well as I was working for a company that operated 402 and 404. When one was seen as worthy enough to move to the 404 a CASA approved person had to be paid to travel to our location and do a 404 endorsement.

A cost to the company. And difficult and resulted in delays. In my case some monthes.

Then the CAO changed! 10 hours ICUS with the company 404 guru and I was let loose with no need for a new sticker and some thousands of dollers to a CASA mate to grant it.

[Peter Fanelli]

I haven't flown a 310, but it sounds like it has the same somewhat interesting fuel system the 402b has.


Give me a break, there's nothing hard about the 310 or tip tanked 400 series Cessna fuel systems.

[Spotlight]

I see your point FTDK but it is a somthing nothing. What a 1 left off a rating.

Or , as I am sure you know an early model had an assymetric problem at an airfield near Brisbane and killed people .

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

Give me a break, there's nothing hard about the 310 or tip tanked 400 series Cessna fuel systems.

Except that people forget how the fuel returns and you can't access aux fuel from that side after an engine failure....Real Simple:rolleyes:

AV8R, Qld Aviation Services has a 414 that endorsement can be done in at Caloundra. Check PM's.
If you need a separate Press Endo, PM me and I know a 210P that I can help you with.

[Peter Fanelli]

Except that people forget how the fuel returns and you can't access aux fuel from that side after an engine failure


Then I question whether such people are ready to be flying aircraft of that type.

[bizzybody]

Getting back to the originnal post, try Mcivers in Bankstown. They used to do quite a few. I see their 402 parked at SAC these days though

[higherplane]

Peter,

Give me a break Peter. I never said it was 'hard'. However I think the engineers that built them made an overly complex system, that could catch out the unwary. For example somebody who trained on a 402c or 404, then jumped into to a 402b or 310 and didn't know to use a portion of the mains before the aux tanks to avoid fuel venting over board. What I am talking about Peter is the risks involved in handing out a blanket endorsement for all models. I would like to think in 99% of cases it wouldn't be an issue, especailly considering most people flying those aircraft types would be professional CPL holders, who would diligently read up on another model before flying it. However, experience has shown me some people are not so diligent, or are simply to stupid to understand a fuel system schematic.