Is it acceptable or appropriate for PPLs to wear 1 gold bar [Archive]

Cumulogranite

16th Mar 2007, 07:56

Very true! You can, of course, wear the bars if you want, and as a ppl you write your solo hours in the "captain" column of your logbook that is bulging with tens of hours!, so whats wrong with 4 of them?

However, you would appear on a par with those that go to the pub wearing their airport ID or any other ID card for that matter as it makes them feel important.

Wearing gold bars on your shoulder at the flying club will not only get you suffering from urine extraction faster than a Bugatti Veyron accelerates, but will also lead most to form the opinion that you have an overinflated ego, or in other words link No1 in the accident chain!

It is pompous, egotisitical and a poor attempt at oneupmanship. Perhaps a sound display of airmanship is more appropriate, and despite all the long words, to$$er sums it up pretty well! Funny thing is, there are those that still do it!

All that said, nothing wrong with a nice, small, discreet set of wings!!!!!

FREDAcheck

16th Mar 2007, 08:28

Say again s l o w l y:
Bars are awarded, not just bought and worn.
Awarded? Well, maybe by an employer. Look at it this way: in some jobs or training organisations, you have to wear a uniform. Nothing wrong with that. Commercial pilots, soldiers, traffic wardens, air hostesses...

If you are a private pilot you don't have to, and they have no significance. You can wear 38 bars if you like. Personally, I find a nurses uniform rather fetching.

Say again s l o w l y

16th Mar 2007, 08:40

I would have more respect for someone turning up at a flying school in a nurses uniform!

People are expected wear uniforms in certain jobs, but a PPL would only be wearing a uniform for ego purposes, not because they are required to. That isn't an attractive quality!

xraf

16th Mar 2007, 08:49

Morning all!

Dont we think that with a single post and an immediate disappearing trick our esteemed colleague 'Basin':8 might just conceivably be winding us all up!!:ugh:

Anyway, I'm off to the gym now to build up the old biceps so I can lift my very heavy double stitched leather flying suit with fringe trim and 8 bars per shoulder cos i've got an hour booked in the sim later.:p

Xraf:ok:

englishal

16th Mar 2007, 09:00

When me and my mate did our FAA CPLs, we did it in shorts and T shirts - ocassionally Hawaiian shirts.

When he did is JARboy CPL he had to wear 2 stripes, shirt and trousers. He said that he felt like a right tool but it was good for pulling the girls ;) He was going to get two sets of 4 stripes and sow them together and turn up wearing 8 bar epaulettes - but he feared that the humourless bstards would have thrown him out :)

...And no, I'd never wear epaulettes in a light aircraft unless it was a company rule and I was flying fare paying passengers.

BEagle

16th Mar 2007, 09:38

Epaulettes are the cloth loops on 'pilot' shirts, over which the rank slides are attached.

Those who are not required to wear badges of rank for work should not do so - or stand accused of trying to pretend that they are something they are not.

If you want to look like some Ruritanian dictator, feel free. But you will just be laughed at.

IO540

16th Mar 2007, 09:49

I am going to get myself the full works to wear for my 50th birthday which will be a semi fancy dress thingy; at least 3 gold bars. So if anybody has a uniform they don't want (medium size, 43" waist/30" inside leg) drop me an email :) I am after a shirt, trousers, and the epaulletes of course. Plus a blue mini-skirt, size 8, for my girlfriend.

Even if one pays the Transair price, one can get it back if it works even once to get you a tankful of tax free avgas. I already carry an AIR BP card in the name of a (real) limited company and that usually works in Spain but I gather than in Barcelona one needs to wear the uniform as well. Everywhere else in Europe (except the UK) you can get tax free avgas by flashing a piece of paper with "AOC" on it; the BP card alone doesn't cut it.

wombat13

16th Mar 2007, 09:58

2nd anniversary of the GST this Sunday. This thread and approaching date brings back fond memories of arrival back home from field.
It was my little boys third birthday and the house was full of kids and parents (lots of yummy mummies, but that's another story). I walk in the door to a barrage of p1ss taking of monumental proportions. I had not only kept my passtime a secret outside of my family, but only my wife knew about the GST. She however did not mind sharing this information with her friends after a glass or three of fizzy wine. What if I had failed :eek: I was then "presented" with a tatty "captains" hat which she had bought at the local charity shop.
After about two hours of this I went to the pub. My wife give me a kiss as I left and told me I was no longer allowed to bore her with talk of flying. I am pretty sure she would make me an appointment with the AME if I was to even consider wearing epaulettes.

Whiskey Kilo Wanderer

16th Mar 2007, 10:20

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=152326&highlight=pprune
Tried to copy the picture of the PPRuNe Wings, but failed..:sad:

Captain Smithy

16th Mar 2007, 11:01

Epaulettes for PPLs??? Heh heh heh. Whatever next eh... flying overalls for when you're burning holes in the sky in a Cessna? D'oh.

Best leave the coveted Gold Bars to the professionals.:ok:

kalleh

16th Mar 2007, 12:35

Perhaps should we copy the budo guys and wear belts in different colors.

* Before Solo: White Belt
* Solo: Yellow Belt
* First Cross Country: Orange Belt
* PPL Licence achieved: Blue Belt
* PPL+NQ: Brown Belt
* PPL+NQ+IR: Black Belt

I think a regular Ju-Jutsu suit would be refreshingly comfortable to fly in on hot summer days, so we might as well adopt it too!

It's all clear to me now

/Kalle

Wessex Boy

16th Mar 2007, 12:40

We used to quite often bring girls back to our quarters to show them our flying suits and Bonedomes.....:E

Mike Cross

16th Mar 2007, 12:48

Why not go the full nine yards
http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/galleries/elton60/eltonjohnWN_250x350.jpg

False Capture

16th Mar 2007, 12:48

WARNING: The wearing of rank slides (as opposed to epulettes) in some flying club bars is an automatic fine of drinks for everyone in the bar.

This is a serious offence in some flying clubs bars. On one occasion we physically threw someone out of the bar because he thought we were joking.

You've been warned!:=

BackPacker

16th Mar 2007, 12:55

I did my PPL at Orlando Flight Training in Florida and they required all students on the commercial track to wear a uniform. Even pre-PPL. Once they did either their PPL or their first solo (I don't remember which one) they were encouraged to wear one bar (silver I think). It might also have been for revenue purposes since they were sold in the OFT pilot shop and deducted from your account. It might have been an Cabair thing. Anybody know what Cabair UK requires? They also had an increasing number of bars for the various FIs so there would be uniformed, three (and sometimes even four)-bar people exiting out of Cessna 152s and PA-28s. Great sight if they happened to be parked closely to a Cessna Citation or Gulfstream V.
I was on the leisure track, fortunately, so just shorts and polo shirts. Didn't make one bit of difference to the tower. And we (both uniform and non-uniform students) got to the same restaurants and bars so frequently that it didn't impress the waitresses there anymore either!

360BakTrak

16th Mar 2007, 13:05

They deducted it from your account?! Thats outrageous!! How can they decide what you spend your money on?!?

BackPacker

16th Mar 2007, 15:47

As I said, I was there on leisure in shorts and polo shirts, but the professional-track students all had to wear uniforms. I somehow assume that they paid for the uniform shirts and slacks themselves, and had to pay for the bars as well. At least, I remember one student complaining about that. If it were me running the place, I'd give the bars for free as an exam present for whatever exam you passed that gives you the right to wear them.

BackPacker

16th Mar 2007, 15:56

Something else. I read a tip somewhere on the net (might have been www.earthrounders.com) that if you ever do a round-the-world trip or similar in a small aircraft, and end up at airports that are not used to GA, it helps a lot if you do wear a proper uniform with whatever amount of bars suits you. I'd suggest four for the PIC, even if he/she is only a newly minted PPL(SEP) and three for the navigator (who might not have a license whatsoever). Not to brag or show off, but as a requirement to get taken seriously by the various airport staff. Sometimes they simply refuse to believe that someone in shorts can be capable of piloting a plane, let alone be the owner/operator of that shiny one there on the apron.

There's even guys who fly in shorts but change into uniform just before landing.

Mike Cross

16th Mar 2007, 16:22

I believe it was Dick Smith, ace Australian Caravan pilot who recommended it. I don't think he was suggesting you wore it to your local hostelry though.

Hmmmmmm.......... slightly lateral musing........ Isn't Margaret Beckett a Caravan pilot?

FREDAcheck

16th Mar 2007, 16:45

I think you'll find she's a car driver who tows a caravan. Is that the same thing?

Lister Noble

16th Mar 2007, 17:22

Am I missing the point here?
Gold bars weigh a hell of a lot,three on each shoulder ,don't they make the shoulders ache?

Lister:confused:

BackPacker

16th Mar 2007, 21:19

Yeah, but at least you're sure you can get full tanks of fuel wherever you are.

Lukesdad

16th Mar 2007, 21:39

Does anyone know where you can buy those 'medal extension kits' so beloved of banana republic dictators?

I have a fifteen metre duckling swimming badge as well as several other prestigious awards that I would like to display in the clubhouse!

BackPacker

16th Mar 2007, 22:02

No, I don't, but the Aviation Hobby Shop here does sell five-bar epaulettes. I'm willing to go get them and post them at cost to anyone who's interested. On the condition that you have your picture taken, airside, at a major international airport while wearing them. Or in another situation where you shouldn't have been unless you're a genuine three- or four-bar, but managed to bluff your way in with just those five-bars. (So genuine three- or four-bars, airside cleared ground crew and such, who just intend to quickly slip on the five-bar for the picture need not apply.)
Obviously pictures to be posted in this thread.

Lukesdad

16th Mar 2007, 22:24

You're on!

FiiS

16th Mar 2007, 22:58

Don't some schools make you wear one bar ..? Erm, I'm struggling to think of the exact example but an ops chap I was talking to at an interview said he was terribly embarassed in the States being made to wear "one bar" and then returning back to work in Ops with the "real pilots" at work - he had no wish to wear one silly bar but was made to in accordance with the place he was training at, to show he was a stude.

I'll agree with the majority though - it's not the military, so just don't if you can help it all!!

Chuck Ellsworth

17th Mar 2007, 01:08

I'm going to let all you people in on a little bit of useful information regarding the wearing of gold bars .

I have a supply of condoms with four raised gold bars on them, these things are the best thing I've ever seen to really make women think you are special.

Remember the bars must be raised to be effective.

flybymike

17th Mar 2007, 03:02

what puzzles me is that absolutely all of the pilot catalogues advertise epaulettes for sale and I guess that they are a pretty good revenue earner. Given all of the disdainful remarks on this thread, just who exactly is it that buys these things!

Billredshoes

17th Mar 2007, 08:35

been there done that :) follow link and scrol down

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=236223&page=5&highlight=epaulettes

B2N2

17th Mar 2007, 13:45

http://www.filibustercartoons.com/content/pic_essays/leaders/contdic/ghaddafi2.jpg

Above left chest pocket:

Medals for:

Short field take-off
Soft field take-off
Zero flap landing
Cross wind landing
Preflight and taxi procedures
Use of checklist and a special commendation for actually writing down ATIS

Banner across the chest:

First solo (top)
First solo cross country (middle)
Special commendation for landing after dark on solo cross country (bottom)

Right hand side (left on the picture)

Second solo cross country
Crossing a MATZ
Landing at a towered airport (with a clearance)

Is that clear enough now?

BackPacker

17th Mar 2007, 14:58

Nice. But do send us an update once you've got that PPL! Because despite all the decorations, I don't see any bars on your shoulders!

And then you can try and obtain the post-PPL ones:

First solo after PPL
First cross-country solo after PPL
First passengers on a flight
First loved ones on a flight
First passengers that offered to pay their share without being asked to
First passengers that say "nice landing" when you really did "arrive"
First passengers that say "nice landing" when it was
First passenger that you give control and does a fairly nice job of it
First passenger that you give control and messes it up
First international flight
First serious overwater flight
First multi-day trip
First passenger that barfed on a flight (happened to me last weekend while returning from a 1.5 hour flight, on downwind. Very distracting on a very inconvenient moment!)
First time you get the ATIS (5 km viz, few 1200, broken 1500), go flying and return tail between the legs because you found out that the ATIS is wrong (less than 3 km viz, broken 800).
First time you found out the ATIS was wrong, as above, but pressed on because the ATIS of the next field promises better weather, then found out that ATIS was equally wrong.
First passenger that also has a pilots license
First passenger that also has a pilots license, and who doesn't have a comment on your flying skills

And the bonus:
First time you include all these medals in your M&B calculations, and find it makes a significant impact!

Gipsy Queen

17th Mar 2007, 23:42

Loved the last two posts.

As I forewarned, all this decoration will put you way outside the forward CG limits - but never mind, you can earn another accolade for failing to get the nose wheel up at VR and ploughing through the VASIs. Very exclusive; not many people got that one. :ok:

False Capture

18th Mar 2007, 00:59

If you run out of room on your shoulders and chest for medals and decorations, you can always put your Wings on your Sleeve.;)

IO540

18th Mar 2007, 06:46

jamestkirk

18th Mar 2007, 08:56

I must request that if you intend to show photos's of my father on this forum, please ask myself of him first.......what a cheek.

PH-UKU

18th Mar 2007, 09:46

how about a feather in your cap ?, comes from a bird, most of which can also fly

Hey, you could take all the feathers out your cap, shove them up your ar$e and fly home :E Lot cheaper than AVGAS.:ok:

FiiS

18th Mar 2007, 09:59

Sometimes they simply refuse to believe that someone in shorts can be capable of piloting a plane, let alone be the owner/operator of that shiny one there on the apron.

Very true - in fact carrying some kind of [bogus] ID is highly desirable. I've been questioned on this directly in a few places. The ID card which AOPA give you is too naff to be any good.

On that notion, a friend of mine says his dad and grandad insist when he's flying them that he wears a shirt and tie to "look the part!!" Get a chauffer's cap while you're at it :rolleyes:

Gertrude the Wombat

18th Mar 2007, 10:16

Get a chauffer's cap while you're at it
Well, my little brother got one to wear whilst driving us around in his gold coloured Roller at our wedding!

scooter boy

18th Mar 2007, 16:09

Sometimes they simply refuse to believe that someone in shorts can be capable of piloting a plane, let alone be the owner/operator of that shiny one there on the apron.

Very true - in fact carrying some kind of [bogus] ID is highly desirable. I've been questioned on this directly in a few places. The ID card which AOPA give you is too naff to be any good.

Fact is - in some countries being dressed in pilot clothes helps a lot with security/officialdom.

Sad but true.

SB

HGFC1

18th Mar 2007, 16:24

B2N2 - you forgot to mention the one for Getting Lost for the First Time and Needing to Call Upon the Services of D&D. :O Then there is the even more exclusive "Getting Lost for the First Time on your QXC and Needing to Call Upon the Services of D&D and at the same time Complicating Matters with a Serious Radio Malfunction. (I do NOT recommend that anyone tries to obtain this one - been there, done that etc.) :{ :{ :{ But I survived :)

WestWind1950

18th Mar 2007, 18:40

in the USA I experienced fully uniformed..... hot air balloon pilots!!
http://www.skytanz.de/images/balloons/1991FebBalloon2.jpg
sorry, but I really think that's over doing things, even if a "paid" customer expects it....

Westy

P.S. yes, that's me in the background..... ;)

Kit d'Rection KG

18th Mar 2007, 21:41

In answer to the thread...

No, and no.

Unless you really want people to know exactly what to think of you on first meeting.

(How did you even get around to posing the question?

:sad:

:sad:

:sad:

:sad:

:sad:

B2N2

18th Mar 2007, 23:23

Considering the HI-VIZ vest the guy is wearing this pic was taken over the weekend at a rural UK airport.
The other guy is getting ready to fly his GA four seater:

http://tcsp.nsstc.nasa.gov/images/gallery/people/20050706_tscp_07_m.jpg

tiggermoth

18th Mar 2007, 23:30

I'm so delighted this question came up again. I mentioned this to my wife before I did my PPL - and because I pronounced 'epaulettes' incorrectly (escalopes) - it's somehow become a standing joke of "chicken wings".

Confession: I very sadly walked around an antiques fair last weekend looking for just something that would distnguish me as a pilot... I saw RAF wings, but then I thought that it would be misleading.. eventually I found a very discrete little aeroplane pin badge (with BOAC on it)... the £20 asking price put me off, but it also reminded me that I would just look like a TW@ . So I didn't buy it. Thankfully.

I went home with my wife knowing I don't have to show off to anybody.

jamestkirk

19th Mar 2007, 09:48

Not content with showing pictures of my family without permission.
You now show a picture of MYSELF in my favourite fetish gear.

Oh, and that is not my chosen gimp in the background.

xraf

19th Mar 2007, 10:01

If this is a UK GA airport then the guy on the right is the only one that is acceptable because the one on the left doesnt have a hi-viz jacket on.:ugh:

Xraf:ok:

OpenCirrus619

19th Mar 2007, 10:25

So in summary: Gold bars are out. :sad:

What about silver ones then? :E

OC619

PompeyPaul

19th Mar 2007, 13:44

First time you get the ATIS (5 km viz, few 1200, broken 1500), go flying and return tail between the legs because you found out that the ATIS is wrong (less than 3 km viz, broken 800).
First time you found out the ATIS was wrong, as above, but pressed on because the ATIS of the next field promises better weather, then found out that ATIS was equally wrong.
It's gems like this I read the forum for. Nowhere near PPL yet, but I'll remember this posting when it happens to me.

BackPacker

19th Mar 2007, 14:39

PompeyPaul, bad weather happens. Weather predictions don't always hold true.

If you don't have a PPL yet, follow your instructors advice regarding this. But if I see that the cloudbase is low I DO take the difference between the temperature and the dewpoint, multiply it by 400. If the ATIS reports something else, particularly in non-convective weather (no Cu-type clouds), I get suspicious. Very suspicious. And I start asking around for pilot reports, to the point where I may ask the tower to get one for me from an aircraft in the air to verify the ATIS is correct. (And if I'm in the air, finding out that an ATIS is incorrect, I do a pilot report myself.)

That is of course, after my unfortunate ATIS incidents I wrote about.

Apparently weather people on the ground have very accurate ways of determining temperature, dewpoint, wind and such, but cloud type & height is still only determined with the Mk 1 eyeball. (Anybody can confirm this?)

Here's what happened to me, what I was referring to. I departed from a (controlled) field with the ATIS reporting 1200 few, 1500 overcast, viz 5 km, for a one-hour x-country back to home base through class G airspace. Actual weather was 800 overcast. Bummer. Decided to press on because my home field also reported something like 1200 few, 1500 overcast and there were no significant weather systems in between - basically my path would run parallel to a warm front. (Probably a marginal decision, with 20/20 hindsight.) Got close to my home field (controlled), got their ATIS, still 1200 few, while I was still below 800 overcast. Contacted them for an XXX arrival which is normally flown at 1500 feet. Got it without any problems, not even SVFR. Then asked them again "this XXX arrival, is it doable at 1500 feet?" "Standby, break break, (other a/c callsign), can you report your conditions on the XXX departure?" "800 broken, we're just considering returning". Turns out the tower trusted the ATIS as well, without apparently looking out the window (admittedly, it is hard to judge cloudbase from the ground), and had let an aircraft depart for the 1500-feet XXX departure. That plane had flown the whole departure (which *is* over a congested area) at 800 feet but never told the tower... Then I got the very unusual "XXX arrival, altitude your discretion" instruction. I don't know, to this day, if this instruction allowed me to violate rule 5 (low flying over congested areas) but I was just happy to get back.

Back on the ground, checked my notes. Particularly the ATIS which I had written down. Temperature-dewpoint spread, both at my point of departure and destination, exactly two degrees.

Pardon me for an off-topic post. Back to regular programming:

OpenCirrus, I'm not a fashion specialist, but aren't gold bars worn on white uniforms, with silver bars worn on blue uniforms? I guess the same rules apply?

If you do start wearing bars on your shoulders though, might I suggest silver in any case? The density of silver is 10.49 g/cm3, while gold is almost twice as heavy at 19.3 g/cm3. Although if you don't want to get in any M&B problems, aluminium is even better at 2.70 g/cm3 and if buffed properly, will almost look like silver in any case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium

tiggermoth

19th Mar 2007, 18:22

So in summary: Gold bars are out. :sad:

What about silver ones then? :E

I don't think Gold bars, or silver ones are appropriate, no.
Perhaps a little wooden chip on each shoulder would though.

DX Wombat

19th Mar 2007, 20:31

Use balsa wood - you can make yourself some really big ones without compromising W&B :E

BackPacker

19th Mar 2007, 21:21

Helium filled balloons? The thin & long kind? That would even reduce your weight (although technically not your mass). And they would become bigger as you fly higher, for added bonus points.

Hydrogen would be even better, but I doubt whether you would want to do that. Not after the Hindenburg disaster.

Probably a bit hard to find balloons that shine like gold or silver though. Nevertheless, post a picture if you do!

OpenCirrus619

20th Mar 2007, 10:10

I don't think Gold bars, or silver ones are appropriate, no.

Better tell Polly....:E

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39185000/jpg/_39185033_polly_vacher203.jpg

OC619

P.S. Yes I do know she has in fact got a CPL and IR

The Wicker Man

20th Mar 2007, 11:03

If you like them wear them. They are no longer just limited to airline flying. Most flying schools these days insist their staff wear a company uniform, whith the dreaded gold bars. This was not allways so, when I started to fly uniforms and gold bars were a big no no, but times change. Now we find potential students visiting our school expect to see profesional dress. so in 2000 we went to uniforms and gold bars, and for some strange reason bussnies went through the roof. So far from people taking the P, the image change done us the world of good.

Bye the way in our school
2 bars = ops manager / AFI
3 bars = senior ops manager / QFI
4 bars = CFI /God

jamestkirk

20th Mar 2007, 11:12

An instructor i know who used to work at a large integrated training school near oxford was doing asymetric circuit (PA34) one day.

The lady above was on a four mile final. The instructor was downwind and was given the call 'your number 1 report final'.

Before the instructor could come back with the readback. A voice was heard over the radio 'I should be number 1, I am polly (forgotten surname)'.

I will try that next time i am going round the busy circuit where i work. I may however replace the name with;

1. Elton John
2. Winston Churchill
3. Julius Caesar

Any further suggestions would be appreciated.

QDMQDMQDM

20th Mar 2007, 11:22

I doubt that about Polly Vacher and I suspect it is a (slanderous) apocryphal story.

airborne_artist

20th Mar 2007, 12:18

In the unlikely event that you follow Polly's example and fly solo SEP over both poles I think we'll all be happy for you to wear four bars. Until then....

When I was first flying in uniform all I had on my shoulder was the epaulette equiv of this http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/upload/img_400/mid.jpg :E

FullyFlapped

20th Mar 2007, 13:27

JamesTKirk,

Your story could of course be true. However, having met the lady, spent a short while talking and working with her and watching her interact with others, I strongly suspect your story is b*llocks, frankly, and I think you should either put up some proof or withdraw the comments ...

FF :ok:

Say again s l o w l y

20th Mar 2007, 14:58

Sounds like a load of old b*lls to me.

scooter boy

20th Mar 2007, 22:20

Chaps, you are missing the point here, don't any of you watch Top Model, Trinny and Susanna or Queer Eye for the Straight Guy?

Take a look at the above picture again.

The fact is that the flight suit coordinates with the plane (what a nice orange) and the gold bars accessorise her hair!

It's all about fashion - orange is the new black.:E

(I know the real reason she is wearing them may well be the need to look convincingly like a pilot if ever stranded in the middle of nowhere).

Get in touch with your feminine sides!!
SB

DX Wombat

20th Mar 2007, 22:26

Get in touch with your feminine sides!! Use some gold or silver nail varnish to paint them on. ;) Then you can paint your nails to match them precisely. :ok:

Chuck Ellsworth

21st Mar 2007, 01:02

Meet Captain Wilbur Wrong:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e353/ChuckEllsworth/P1010671.jpg

Gold bars look cool on some pilots.

Wilbur loves his Bars, and the sun glasses are for the neighbourhood girl dogs.

tangovictor

21st Mar 2007, 01:18

good grief

Chuck Ellsworth

21st Mar 2007, 02:09

Wilbur has been flying since he was 58 days old.

He has many hundreds of hours and has taken obedience training, sort of a doggie PDM.

By the way he also has a Canadian Security ID tag that he always wears when going to the airport, he was just posing for the picture there and forgot to wear the ID Tag.

deeceethree

21st Mar 2007, 06:02

For those airlines that still have Second Officers (are there any still?), what do/did they wear? One stripe?

Whirlybird

21st Mar 2007, 08:03

A voice was heard over the radio 'I should be number 1, I am polly (forgotten surname)'.

Since Polly Vacher is often involved in aviation stuff for charity, IF this is true, I suspect that there was a good reason for it...maybe something happening after she landed? Otherwise....definitely no. Polly is one of the most humble people I know.

But I'll ask her if you like.

jamestkirk

21st Mar 2007, 13:58

I knew this would get that sort of reaction. Technically by the way it's libel not slander, seeing as its written.

Where did i say that i dis-approve of her round the world trip or charitable intentions.

It was told to me by an instructor that i work with every day.

Oh, whirlybird. Get her to pm me then i will happily tell the story to her. She will probably see the funny side as much as i did.

So please just calm down and stop trying to play the game of aviation ego'd one-up-man-ship.

I also have met her at bristol and fond her very pleasant. I dont think I said otherwise.

J.A.F.O.

21st Mar 2007, 14:10

James

You told a story that made her look like a foolish egomaniac - two things that Polly Vacher most definitely is not - how would there be a funny side for her to see?

I knew this would get that sort of reaction

Either you are an idiot or a liar. If you knew people would be miffed by your story then to tell it would make you an idiot. The only other alternative is that you didn't realise that several people on here would know Polly Vacher and got found out, there fore you're a liar as you didn't know what reaction it might get.

I don't care whether it's libel or slander but your original post was bo11ocks.

S-Works

21st Mar 2007, 14:13

Why should PPL's only have one gold bar, they are Captain after all so maybe 4/5 is more appropriate.......... :E :p

In fact why not have a gold flying suit, you could be a giant golden tool!!!

jamestkirk

21st Mar 2007, 14:41

You need to get out more.

Fuji Abound

21st Mar 2007, 15:33

Why should PPL's only have one gold bar, they are Captain after all so maybe 4/5 is more appropriate..........

Having been following this thread with great interest, I am inclined to agree with Bose .. .. ..

after all gold bars do look very smart, add a degree of professional, and in spite of the yellow jacket distinguish you from everyone else wearing a yellow jacket for some other reason than they are a pilot.

Infact come to think of it, the bars would look very nice on the yellow jacket.

Whirlybird

21st Mar 2007, 17:40

James,
I'm not sure if we're misunderstanding each other or not. What I meant was that Polly could well have had something organised that day after she landed...photographers taking photos for some charity or something...I don't know. Maybe what she meant was that she had to be Number 1 to land for some good reason like that.

S-Works

21st Mar 2007, 19:06

I did a really good job of briefly diverting the attention from the Polly bashing/loving fest. Shall we call it a day on that one?

tiggermoth

21st Mar 2007, 19:23

Bose-x

I thought you made a brilliant attempt there.

Along with the golden suit, golden bars, then of course - golden shoes to go with the whole thing. :rolleyes:

T.

Chuck Ellsworth

21st Mar 2007, 20:33

Don't forget Wilbur...

jamestkirk

22nd Mar 2007, 09:53

I certainly take that on board.

It was a quote from someone else and i tried in the post to have a laugh about it.

irish_bunny

29th Mar 2007, 21:58

My flying school made us all wear Uniform and Rank Slides, even before we had seen the inside of a small a/c.

To start with
Blue pilot shirt and a plain (nothing on it all, just plain navy blue) slide

The first time you take off and land an a/c without help
Blue pilot shirt and a thin silver bar

First solo
Blue shirt, thick bar

on gaining NPPL
Blue shirt - 1 thick and 1 thin silver bar

On gaining JAR PPL
Blue shirt - 2 silver bars

On gaining Night Rating
Blue shirt - 2 gold bars

On gaining Instrument Rating, you were considered not to be a PPL, but training for a CPL, even if you never wanted it, so you had to change your shirt for a green one - and try getting a green pilot shirt anywhere except their shop. You also had to get green slides with the 2 gold bars.

The slides also had other markings toward the top. A Maltese cross (nicked from St Johns Ambulance) if you were a First Aider, and laurels for instructors.

tangovictor

29th Mar 2007, 23:31

do you get to wear a badge for rubbing 2 sticks together & starting a fire ?

irish_bunny

30th Mar 2007, 00:22

The only purpose I could see in it was so they could make extra money forcing overpriced, unwanted crap on you.

By the way, I want an extra bar for this post:rolleyes:

A new CFI has changed the 'Uniform' for the better. Anything you want, provided you wear your photo ID card airside at all times.

False Capture

30th Mar 2007, 00:44

Irish Bunny,

I'd rather be awarded pints of Guiness and retain the plain navy blue slides.;)

BackPacker

31st Mar 2007, 08:07

tangovictor, you've chosen the wrong hobby. It's the Boy Scouts which gives you merit badges for rubbing sticks together to start a fire.

tangovictor

31st Mar 2007, 10:46

tangovictor, you've chosen the wrong hobby. It's the Boy Scouts which gives you merit badges for rubbing sticks together to start a fire.

I don't think so, I was be facetious, I thought this link is for PFA farmstrip flying, who are you trying to impress ? on the farmstrip ?

RudeNot2

1st Apr 2007, 08:31

Came across this link from another forum...

http://www.pplir.org/images/stories/pplir_files/ftn226_p12.pdf

BEagle

1st Apr 2007, 08:34

;)

I wonder how many will be taken in?

Gingerbread Man

1st Apr 2007, 11:11

Is it acceptable or appropriate for PPLs to wear a nomex grow bag and a bonedome? You could probably argue the case but you'd look stupid. Having said that, i've got a WW2 style flying jacket which someone bought me some budgie wings for, with "Ginger" underneath. I think that looks a bit silly, but I wear it occasionally (normally when it's frigid outside). Wouldn't dream of wearing it anywhere near an airfield or other pilots though.

I can appreciate people wanting to have something that gives the flight a sense of occasion, but stripes just looks pompous.

Ginger ;)

the bald eagle

1st Apr 2007, 13:40

Intresting thread mind,

Whilst here in the UK the wearing of gold or silver bars as a ppl makes you look like a penis of the highest order in other countries it don't.

A couple of years ago i hired a TB9 from MLA to CTA and wore a pair of trainers,jeans and a Crystal Palace football shirt but on arrival in CTA (Catania) we were asked who the PIC was and on telling the customs geezer i was, i was carted off down to some poxy airport cell and accused of nicking the plane and the licence! (Got out of that by showing the **** my passport photo and that the name on the passport was the same on the ppl) but was strongly advised up the flying club by the elders that the next time i visit any airport in Italy not to wear a football shirt but a nice shirt with go faster stripes down the arms.

I did this last year when going thru Naples for fuel enroute to CFU and in a PA28 and sailed thru no problem so with that in mind the next time you fancy a good european jaunt try and find out from members at your local flying club what the formalities are like for the airports or the countries
you plan to visit they may have been there done that got the shirt and the bars to prove it:)

Human Factor

2nd Apr 2007, 08:13

Is it acceptable or appropriate for PPLs to wear a nomex grow bag and a bonedome?

It rather depends on what they're about to fly....

Will Hung

2nd Apr 2007, 08:40

Recently saw a guy turn up in RAF flying jacket (complete with wings, name etc.), RAF flying boots, and even the white leather gloves, to fly a Cherokee ! He obviously thought it was necessary and looked good, everyone else thought W@%*^$R !

Wessex Boy

2nd Apr 2007, 12:10

There is a safety angle to the attire, and in the RAF it is drummed into you to only fly in approved, fire-resistant clothing, we even had to fly in issue underwear!
I tend to fly the Warrior wearing cotton clothes (Fat-Face trousers tend to have pockets in a similar place to flying suits), with my old issue flying boots. I would wear my old white leather gloves if I could find them as they do ensure good adhesion on the controls, even if things do get a bit sweaty....plus again they are fire retardent. Basically sensible normal clothes that don't mark you out as a Kn**-end in the clubhouse

When the time comes I will probably replace the flying boots with a pair of (subdued coloured) motor-racing boots which allow fine control whilst being fire retardent.

Call me paranoid, but if we managed 3 flights in a row in the Wessex without some kind of failure or emergency we were doing exceptionally well!

Chukkablade

2nd Apr 2007, 12:29

Reference the safety clothing aspect, I'm really keen to hear others views on this one. As an ex-biker, I remember when wearing safety gear outside of a helmet and a jacket (as if Levi 501's protected your bum from getting tarmac rash at 30mph!) marked you down for scorn, yet things have gotten a lot more sensible these days with back protectors etc. None of the old and bold VFR and Fireblade boys I still keep up with would even dream of going on the bike the way we did as young lads. It'd be lunacy.

Really different atitudes prevail in the G.A. world however, and over the last 7 or 8 years I've been in it, I thought it would become more acceptable to wear safety focused clothing, but it seems not.

To clarify, I dont mean trying to be some T. Cruise wannabee, they need ridiculed with force on site, but with fireproof gear being available in either a subdued colour jumpsuit or long sleeved shirt and trousers, ditto unobtrusive footwear thats flame resistant, why dont we?

Same with a bonedome. Doing 100 knots+ with a piece of perspex in front of me reminds me of my bike days - I certainly didn't do that in just a headset either! After years of crash helmets, it just didn't feel right from day one. Still doesn't years later.

What do others think? Am I seeing things from an overly cautious point of view? Have I read 'Fatal Traps' to many times;) You tell me?

Wessex Boy

2nd Apr 2007, 12:42

There have been discussions on this topic on some of the other forums recently with some good posts from survivors of incidents/accidents that would not fly in anything less than full nomex & Bonedome now.

But at the same time the spamcans are car-like and you also have to bear in mind your passengers view if they are in normal clothes and you are in a bonedome!

I thought there might be a niche in the market for aviation clothing that looked OK for normal attire, but would afford the protection and utility we require. As I said previously the Fat-Face trousers are almost there, as are some others, but the normal clothing provided by the aviation stores would not look right on a PPL under 50

Will Hung

2nd Apr 2007, 12:52

Does anyone know where I can get one of those orangey suits and white helmets that the SR-71A (Blackbird) guys wore ?

Gingerbread Man

2nd Apr 2007, 12:56

It rather depends on what they're about to fly....

That's true, I should have born in mind that you can fly a Hunter on a PPL etc :) . Anyway, i'm sorry I drifted this thread into safety, as gold bars certainly have no benefit in that area.

What was the reference to Fat Face about? Do they do nomex gear or something? Or are my regular FF trousers fireproof :} ?

Ginger ;)

vulcanpilot

2nd Apr 2007, 16:21

I agree wholeheartedly with Wessex Boy on the safety aspect.

I always wear a pair of RAF gloves (good grip, fire retardant and keep your hands clean). If its a bit blowy on the airfield, I wear an RAF Mk3 jacket. If I am flying the Bulldog or the DHC1 I often wear a growbag (no wings/name badge tho) & flying boots. If I am crossing water, I will wear an RAF Mk25 life preserver (and so will Mrs Vulcanpilot).

Do I look a tit? Probably, but then I think the 'hairy biker' who rides to the club on his fancy painted up motorised pushbike with matching leathers and helmet looks a tit (my opinion). But that seems totally accepted. As does wearing all the flashy suits/shoes/gloves/helmet etc if you play with motor cars on a racing circuit. And what about golfers ....... what safety aspect do garish trousers and Pringle sweaters provide? Enough said. :ugh:

Aviation seems to be the only passtime where if you fly in anything other than shorts and a t-shirt you are considered to be a 'topgun wannabe' or a tit.

Why do I wear ex-RAF kit? - well, its quite cheap, and lets be honest, the quality is superb. I have found NOTHING to compare to the Mk3 Flying Jacket for insulation properties, comfort and places to bung things. It cost me £25 for a brand new one. The Mk25 life preservers knock spots off anything the aviation suppliers sell and I would prefer to trust my life to something the pro's trust their life to - not some re-badged thing normally used by dinghy paddlers.

But to get back on-thread, I would draw the line long before wearing stripes on my eppaulettes! :}

AfricanEagle

2nd Apr 2007, 21:12

Dressing up.

In winter a 20 year old leather jacket with a pair of tiny AOPA wings pinned to the collar. And jeans.

Mid seasons a green ex Italian Airforce flying jacket I was given from a real airforce pilot with my name patch and a Airforce SM260 patch (I have had the good fortune to fly a military one and am proud of it). And jeans.

On flying club tours to Europe of more than a week we all wear flight overalls because pratical and helps getting through airport security.

In summer ... just shorts. If you can stand the sight I can post a picture. :yuk:

If I get to fly a C206 down to Kenya soon I will get a white shirt and as many bars possible: I believe it is mandatory for airport authorities to recognize you as a pilot.

And I will probably enjoy it.

But I will never wear them to the club, or worse, to town :)

Wessex Boy

3rd Apr 2007, 09:50

What was the reference to Fat Face about? Do they do nomex gear or something? Or are my regular FF trousers fireproof :} ?

Ginger: I only mentioned them as they are pure Cotton and have pockets in the same place as a Gro-bag.

but no Gold Bars......:)

Gingerbread Man

3rd Apr 2007, 10:51

but no Gold Bars...... :)

Curses :( . Back to the sewing machine then.

aluminium persuader

3rd Apr 2007, 12:52

I've yet to see a light a/c with the SRS, side-curtains, air-bags & crumple-zones that my Volvo has. Plus, at the first sign of fire I fully intend to pull over at once, jump out & run like fcuk. Try that at 3000' !:eek:

Wessex - I fully agree. Time we had a range of Nomex gear for GA pilots. Robinsons Heli's have already started a motion with an a/d stating a recommendation that all pax & crew wear proper flying clothing & bone-dome!

ap

DBChopper

3rd Apr 2007, 14:53

The original subject of the thread, despite being the catalyst for some interesting and amusing debate, puzzles me a bit. Has anyone genuinely seen a PPL turn up at their club or school with gold bars on their epaullettes, worn in all seriousness, to go flying?

S-Works

3rd Apr 2007, 14:57

I flew into Jersey once and 2 guys on pilot uniforms with 4 gold bars were unloading a Cherokee after a shopping trip to Cherbourg. I asked if they were commercial pilots or even instructors and was told they were just PPL's but as they were "captains" they wore uniform.

Each to there own!

I seem to recall even the Instructors at the Jersey Aero Club prefer shorts and t-shirts rather than stupid uniforms. Makes the place seem so much friendlier and approachable.

Rans Flyer

3rd Apr 2007, 17:23

I normally wear an ex-RAF fireproof suit with my WFAeC badge on.
I know it looks silly in a small microlight, but I don't care.
It's warm, fireproof, has lots of pockets & pen holders and the plastic chart pockets on the legs are useful; 1 side for the AFE info and the other for scribbling down the QFE etc.
No need for a knee-board.
Rans.

'Chuffer' Dandridge

3rd Apr 2007, 20:15

Why do you need to wear gold epaulette thingies to show you are a pilot. Don't you think the aeroplane you arrived in sort of gives it away..........?
Airline crew need rank markings in case they get confused, PPLs only need a pair of Rayban aviators and a black plastic pilot case and they are instantly recognisable as PPLs...

Whirlybird

4th Apr 2007, 08:39

The April issue of Flight Training News (available at most flying schools) has an article on this very subject, entitled "Bar Wars". Apparently Appendix F to the amendments to the something-or-other Act focus on security issues, and propose to use gold bars for security checks, instead of airline pilots having a hard time getting airside and having items like pens confiscated. So ALL pilots will have to wear gold bars - one for PPLs, 2 for CPLs, 3 for frozen ATPLs, four for unrestricted ATPLs. In order for these bars to be recognised by scanners, they will of course have to be in a specified material and of a specifc width - so all current gold bars are now defunct. As this will be a legal requirement and is a safety issue, uniform suppliers will have to have background security checks.

There was a load of rigmarole about all the other issues surrounding this, and as I read it, I thought it sounded totally crazy. Could it be true? Well, perhaps; it was no crazier than suggesting that gliders and hang-gliders have Mode S transponders, for instance. But when I got to AFE being an ISO010407 organisation who was qualified to do all this, I realised it was the April FTN, and began to wonder.... And then, when I read that it would be implemented at midnight on March 31st, ad that the next day anyone wearing unauthorised braid would have to hand it in and check in via the passenger security gates....the day after March 31st, yeah, OK.

And then I turned over, and there was a large, convincing looking AFE ad for "all your airside security clothing requirements", and it tells you in small print to "send your order with...a blank cheque made payable to 'AFE April Fool Fund'....along with any unauthorised epaulettes in your possession...and 78 passport-sized photos of yourself".

Nice one, FTN :ok:

conflict alert

4th Apr 2007, 10:20

I'd like to know how fire retardent gloves boots underpants googles and whatever else you wear is going to help you at any altitude if your aircraft is on fire. Short of exceeding Vne and ripping the wings off to get the aircraft on the ground-its still going to take a while to get that aircraft on the ground. if theres fire, the clothes will only take so much before they no longer serve their purpose (at which time you are still gliding down)

If you are wearing it on the assumption that if there was a problem, and you crashed during an ensuing forced landing which resulted in a fire - chances are you would be out of that aircraft in a flash(pardon the pun) or if you crashed landed and the aircraft caught fire and you were jammed in - no one is going to be around to get you out for a while. Your fire retardent clothes will only delay the burns.

Some on this thread have mentioned wearing gloves when flying their light aircraft for better adhession...if you sweat that much you shouldn't be flying!!! If your having to 'hang' onto the controls, you shouldn't be flying! or perhapes, because you are wearing all this fire retardent stuff - your swealtering??

As to PPL stripes - grippers:yuk: We have quite a few flying establishments over here which provide full time courses. What you do see is the name of the establishment on the shoulders - no stripes unless you are an instructor.

DSAA

4th Apr 2007, 12:41

Conflict - Do you not think there is a reason that military flying organisations around the world wear fireproof clothing? Regardless of their stream - be it fast jet, rotary, multi or even sat in the training system on L/A - the only clothing you will fly in is a fireproof suit, leather gloves, boots and (temperature dependant) a fireproof flying jacket. It's not to look akin to Maverick and Goose, or even so you can strut to and from an aeroplane looking cool - it's a simple factor of safety.

Admitted if you're at FL080 and you have an electrical fire you may have a slim chance of reaching the ground before it overcomes you and your clothing, but a simple pair of leather gloves means you can reach the circuit breakers and battery switches to shut them off and hopefully extinguish the fire - rather than losing the skin on your hands from the heat. Not forgetting that because you can't even attempt to control the fire, as it gets hotter and the flames get larger your polyester clothing is going to start to melt. On top of that, as the plastic units start to melt you're going to have fumes in the cockpit - but because you're already burnt there isn't a lot you can do about it except take a good lung full of the stuff, and finally the burns on your hand stopping you from taking control of the yoke/stick, so you are almost guaranteed to have a moment of rapid deceleration shortly after letting go.

Dramatic - probably, but a definite possibility. Whilst nobody can tell you what to, or what not to wear - it seems daft to not shell out a relatively minor sum to get yourself some kit that potentially could save your life. Agreed safety clothing doesn't give you a magic shield against any and all dangers in the air - but it gives you a fighting chance to do something about an in flight emergency.

hobbit1983

4th Apr 2007, 13:17

I'd like to know how fire retardent gloves boots underpants googles and whatever else you wear is going to help you at any altitude if your aircraft is on fire.

By giving you more time to make a forced landing with increased protection from burns/intense heat/etc.

Captain Smithy

4th Apr 2007, 13:19

Bloody hell, this is getting like a fashion discussion.:rolleyes:

When I go flying I usually wear a pair of jeans or combat trousers and a green NATO jumper... nothing fancy, no badges etc. merely practical stuff.

Wouldn't mind an Alpha CWU-45, would be useful since it can get a bit chilly out on the ramp, but not sure since they're a bit expensive and I wouldn't want to be labelled a "Maverick" wannabe. There again they don't have badges or anything silly on them so they're OK to me.

Not into Ray-Bans or Irvin jackets though... too "Top Gun" for me. Not into that sort of thing.:bored:

P.S. Although if you fly a Tiger Moth I do believe that automatically entitles you to wear an Irvin!;)

BackPacker

4th Apr 2007, 13:30

DSAA - You are entirely correct but you've got to keep in mind the specific aircraft we fly, and the specific missions we fly with them.

A military pilot sits on top of a very powerful engine, is loaded with ammo, has zillions of electric systems around him (various radars, UHF, VHF, transponders, jammers, whatnot) and on top of it - gets shot at. Not to mention sitting more or less *inside* a rocket called an ejection seat. You guys deliberately do very dangerous things, and should absolutely wear the clothing to match. Plus, your fireproof clothing is probably integrated, or at least designed as not to conflict with other systems, such as a g-suit, parachute, and oxygen mask. (I doubt whether a g-suit & parachute straps on top of denim jeans would be comfy...)

A private pilot will be lucky if he is able to afford anything over 250 horsepower. Between the engine and the passenger compartment is a firewall and there'll be a fuel shutoff somewhere close to that firewall. The electric system is very basic, all high-current components are in front of the firewall, and the whole system can be switched off via at least two ways (electric master & the circuit breakers). Switching off the entire electric system, by the way, does not influence the flying qualities at all - no fly by wire in our airplanes. And shutting off the fuel just turns our airframe into a 1:10 glider, not into a brick, with reasonably good prospects of survival. Other than the fuel and the cloth inside the interior, there's not a lot of flammable stuff around. Particularly no stuff that's designed to go "boom". And we typically do not get shot at in the course of our missions.

So the entire tradeoff of safety vs. convenience/cost is different. And so far the statistics seem not to contradict this: How often is there an in-flight or post-crash fire in a light aircraft resulting in more or less serious injury (from minor burns to death)?

And there's a side issue too. I think I have a responsibility as PIC to supply my passengers with the same amount of safety as I have myself. But I can't expect my passengers to go to a dump shop and buy a nomex suit, bonedome, life vest and whatnot before they go and fly with me. From a safety-aspect it makes sense, from a convenience and cost aspect it does not.

As far as the statistics are concerned, private flying (Day VFR) is about as safe as driving a car, in terms of fatalities per km. And as long as everybody hops into a car without considering what sort of clothing they wear, and its safety aspects in case of a crash, I'm not going to worry about it when flying privately.

Admittedly, if I do fly outside my normal Day VFR private flying envelope, I do take a few additional precautions. Life vests for crossing the Channel for example.

Chukkablade

4th Apr 2007, 13:55

While I don’t agree with your point backpacker, you state it well. However, it falls apart rather quickly when you consider just two examples that are taken from real life. You soon see that the scenarios just don’t play out the way you have stated them in your post.

First off; bird strike. ‘Fatal Traps’ is full of examples of this that are influenced by simply wearing a helmet. No more needs said.

Secondly, the military display pilot who, years back, did a display in his Lightning without incident, then had a bad afternoon in his’ less than 250hp’ civvy machine. Were he not wearing protective gear when he crashed, he felt it would have been a fatality by burning, this being borne out by his unfortunate wife who was dressed in normal summer clothing. Not good. At least he could help remove her from the wreckage due to the protective nature of his dress. Thats real 'passenger responsibility' of why the guy who flies it should at least take some steps of protection in my book.

As I said, it’s not about trying to look like some patch wearing wannabee, it’s about taking reasonable steps to protect yourself if you get a swipe from the bad luck fairy. As someone who went skidding up the asphalt after coming off a motorbike on more than one occasion, I rather believe in taking at least some steps to be the right side of cautious. It's why I dont have skin grafts nor plates in my skull (debatable!).

If it all works for you however, then good luck with it. Different strokes for different folks and all that.

Edited for spelling.

DSAA

4th Apr 2007, 14:02

Chukka...well said. In the end everyone finds a formula which works for them and sticks to it, I'm sure there are plenty of pilots who have come unstuck whilst wearing every item of protective clothing they could find, whilst other guys have walked away without a scratch in shorts and tee-shirt.

BackPacker

4th Apr 2007, 14:32

Chukka... Point taken. As DSAA said, everybody finds a formula and lives with it. If we want to be 100% safe, we would not be flying but play chess all day long. Or simply stay in bed.

I don't know about that Lightning display pilot incident. Was he doing a display with his wife on board?

The bird strike angle is one that I, up to now, have never considered in full before. I realise we're drifting off-topic big-time here, but it would be interesting to know what the certification requirements are for a GA aircraft with respect to a birdstrike. I read somewhere in another thread that CAT has to have front windows certified for striking birds up to a certain weight up to 250 knots. Anything like that for GA aircraft? And are there any reasonable measures a GA pilot can take to reduce the risk/lessen the impact, other than wearing an integral helmet (with visor) and avoiding bird areas?

And indeed, motorbikes scare me a lot more than airplanes. They were not my piece of cake to begin with, and now one of my friends has become an ambulance driver and told us a few stories about motorbike accidents and the general (non-)survivability of them, even in full protective gear. Apparently it's not the driving or the accident that's dangerous, but the guardrails at the side of the road.

Chukkablade

4th Apr 2007, 14:38

Good point about the birdstrike resistance in GA machines there Backpacker, I'd like to know those figures to if they were available, or indeed exist. Probably not though is the answer.

With the Lightning chap, he did the display, then parked the big machine up and did the recreational flying in a GA machine, hence why she was on board.

As for motorbikes, well, a good friend of mine is a surgeon, and he was a big part of why I gave up. That and becoming a dad. Simply put, he calls them 'Organ harvestors', because thats what they are. More so now with the 30 something guys going back to them after a 15 year absence, and discovering that machines have moved on in capability requirements somewhat.

And yet I know bikers who think my Robinson addiction is scary.:confused:

jamestkirk

4th Apr 2007, 15:27

Please tell us you were joking about the 'cherokee,pilots,ppls,shopping trip to cherbourg'.

Did you hold your tongue or make a comment to them.

Wessex Boy

4th Apr 2007, 15:55

According to various sources a lot of air accidents are survivable, it is what happend after the impact that kills people, the main one being trapped inside something burning.

Being an ex-Air Loadmaster (briefly) and having to deal with pax safety and expeditious egress I always insist my family keep their shoes on for take off and landing when flying on Airlines, as most crash sites are made up of twisted metal, broken glass and hot things, the last thing you want to be worrying about is your feet (they think I am an old woman...)

I think we have to balance safety, comfort, risk and image. If I was flying anything aerobatic I would wear a gro-bag, for a spam-can sensible cotton clothes, flying boots, and when I find them, my RAF issue gloves.

BTW we tested the Flame resistance of the gloves whilst on our Survival training, we were able to put our hands into a fire to take the food out without feeling too much heat. ( I caught some trout on the first night, so we were able to poach them in the emergency water sachets...very tasty breakfast!)

J.A.F.O.

4th Apr 2007, 18:14

I grew up being taught the same things as Wessex Boy (at the same place and roughly the same time, too) but now simply carry a child's doll or teddy bear on each trip.

On footage of CAT aircraft accidents there is always a shot of a teddy bear or doll that has survived the carnage, therefore if one is holding the bear...

Wessex Boy

5th Apr 2007, 09:00

LOL JAFO!

On the same theme, I was once taught that whenever there is a disaster anywhere in the World there is always an Irish Survivor that gets interviewed.......Trouble is after all that Guiness you need to place them close to the datum to get your Weight & Balance within the envelope.....:E

621andy

9th Apr 2007, 17:41

When I instructed on gliders with the Space Cadets, we had all the RAF gear- growbag, polonecked undershirts, socks,boots, jackets, and gloves-white and green cold weather ones....looked very smart, but a bit OTT to fly a glider! -not much chance of a fire there! We even had name tags...nicknamed "Tebbs'" after the poor barsteward whose name was used on the advertsing bumf for them!
But all this stuff was 'uniform' and you were expected to wear it, even in mid summer. In winter it was marvellous stuff- certainly kept the wind out!

As to mars bars on the shoulders...NO NO NO!

As a commercial balloon pilot, I've seen other pilots having to wear bars and white shirts- Africa, the US, and Oz are prime examples of where they think it neccessary to dress their pilots up in fancy dress. But I've even seen it in the UK...the day I'm forced to wear mars bars is the day I give up ballooning for a living...

Andy