Position reporting (light a/c) to London Info

[Randomtox]

Hi,

I was wondering what sort of positon data is really useful to you guys/ gals. The other day I was enroute to Caernafon and reported my position to London Info as 2 miles east of Llyn Berrig (pronouncing the LL correctly as 'Ch'). London Info asked me to repeat my position - which I did. I received an 'understood' and all was well.

But then I thought - how can I expect London Info to know where the heck that lake was ? Ok - the Welsh name would have given them a clue, as would my route. But would I not have been better off saying 20 miles WSW of Hawarden ? e..g using a more readily understood local identifier ?

Would you ATC'ers prefer position reports based on aerodromes / cities etc or is it fair to assume that, if marked on the half-mil map - it's valid for position reporting ?

cheers
random

[AlanM]

Generally, ATCers that you speak to only control within 40 miles of their airfield, so are normally quite proficient at good visual reference points such as lakes/railway lines etc.

Of course, London Info ISN'T ATC as such, but a FISO. I would guess they would prefer a generic report (like you say, in relation to an airfield/NAVAID etc)

That said, they know their stuff and you might be surprised at just how much they know!!!

[DC10RealMan]

Randomtox,

On the London FIR position we use the half-mil map as you do, if we cannot find it we will ask for clarification as you say as a bearing and distance from a larger town or navaid. If you have given us your departure point and destination we can often find the reporting point simply by projecting your proposed track on the half-mil map.

[Randomtox]

Thanks for your replies - very useful ! I'll use NAVaids and towns in future !

[BackPacker]

Just jumping into this thread now with another question. I'm planning a flight from Rotterdam (Netherlands, EHRD) to one of the fields south of Heathrow (not yet decided which one yet, but I've got some business to do there). The route will be direct over the sea, to the VOR (forgot its ident) which sits conveniently on the south bank of the Thames. I planned to report at one of these five-letter IFR intersections that mark the FIR boundary (they're in the GNS430), but does London Info have that information as well? Or should I report "at the FIR boundary, 51.30 North" or something like that? And can I put the same point in my flightplan? (EET/XANEB0110 or something like that)

[coracle]

Backpacker.
In this situation I would perhaps be tempted to state your position in terms of position and miles to the VOR ( eg 10 miles east of xxx ) you are using for your navigation, as this gives London Info a fighting chance of, 1; knowing where you are and 2; knowing what your intended track is so that they can give you the best service they can.

The temptation is to over complicate things, where as the best solution is often the simplest.

Happy flying!!

[DC10RealMan]

Backpacker,

I would confirm what coracle has said. We do know where the five letter IFR reporting points are as well if you wish to use them, however what is a pain are the postion reports that are Lat and Long as to plot the approximate position is very time consuming and ergonomically difficult within the confines of the FIS position.

[BackPacker]

"the confines of the FIS position"... Just think of how difficult it would be to calculate my lat/long position in the first place, in the confines of my small cockpit... :-)

Anyway, five-letter IFR intersections it is then. Both in my flightplan and in my position report upon entering the FIR. Thanks guys.

[av8boy]

Reminds me of a problem from more than 20 years ago. GA pilot calls in to Burbank Approach for VFR advisories. He says he's 2 east of [the] mountain peak. Controller says "lots of mountain peaks around here." Pilot says, "it's on the sectional." Controller looks and sees it.

http://www.atcmuseum.org/images/mountain_peak.jpg

At the time the management at BUR swear they're going to fix this so the ambiguity goes away. However, my image (with Mountain Peak at the upper center), above, is taken from the most recent LA sectional.

Arrrrrgh. :ugh:

Dave