Helmets

[QDMQDMQDM]

OK, I am sure this has been discussed before, but the parachute plane accident thread has brought it to mind. I haven't posted in there for fear of flaming by the righteous brigade.
Over on the Super Cub website (www.supercub.org) there is a largish body of opinion that one of the greatest safety measures you can take in your SC is to wear a helmet.
I am not proposing that Joe Schmoe in his PA28 or C172 or Cirrus should wear one, but people employed in utility aviation and flying less crashworthy aircraft (in the SC your head travels amist a latticework of steel tubes on which to bash yourself) could usefully wear them. Not such a big deal and a good idea?
I am tempted to get a couple. Anyone got any good suggestions or thoughts on this?
QDM

[John Alcock]

One argument against them is that in a rapid deceleration (crash) they give the wearers head more momentum due to their rather weighty construction, and are therefore increasing the risk of injury.

On the other hand, in a really rapid deceleration, it's likely your head will snap forward hard enough to hit something regardless of what you're wearing, and then a helmet is undoubtedly a good idea!

I know the RAF use them in the Grob 115 Tutor, similar to most GA types, but I've always assumed that's to acclimatise the pilots to wearing helmets in fast jets later. Odd, considering that the majority will end up on choppers or multis though...

Similar vein to the recurrent gloves debate:
Image is irrelevant. Flight safety must overrule.

[tmmorris]

The RAF takes the view that all pilots should wear helmets. They also mandate parachutes. If you bale out, of course, there is significant risk of head injury unless you wear a helmet, so the two go together.

On the other hand, almost all RAF training involves aeros and formation flying, two circumstances under which baling out might be necessary. For civilian bimbling or even IF, it's probably not really called for.

Tim

[Wessex Boy]

Do you know how many times you bang your head in a Helicopter?
Especially when the pilot does a surprise autorotation practice:ugh:

[QDMQDMQDM]

One argument against them is that in a rapid deceleration (crash) they give the wearers head more momentum due to their rather weighty construction, and are therefore increasing the risk of injury.

Prob much less of an issue with a modern kevlar hemlet?

[Flyingcircusace]

I personally do not fly without one. I friend of mine died due to the fact that he was knocked out during the impact, thus unable to flee the ensuing fire.
Another pal has the remains of his bone dome, that he was wearing when his Pitts hit a ditch. The gouge across the top of it caused by the ignition key and various switches is sobering enough.
Even when I had to transit in a cherokee, I sat there helmet and chute!! But you have to admit that if they pulled you out of the wreckage, with a perfectly servicable chute and helmet sat in the luggage compartment. Then that would be even more ridiculous.

[tmmorris]

No point in a parachute in a PA28 - you just try opening the door in flight...

There was a case of two idiots in a Bonanza who tried some aeros, wearing parachutes. When it started to fall apart they tried to get out. Their bodies were found in the ac, one of them wedged in the door...

Tim

[eharding]

The kevlar shell Gentex HGU-55 is probably the lightest of the lot - the David Clark shells which go over a DC headset are light enough in themselves, but the headset adds quite a lot of weight. Not to mention the, ah, appearance. The UK Alpha helmet in kevlar is also quite light, but comparatively bulky, not to mention expensive to source spares for, whereas the Gentex spares are cheap and easy to come by - but the Alpha I'd argue offers the best protection by a small margin.

[Watnochute]

Maybe a bit fancy but have you looked at Campbell Aero Classics. They do three models, kevlar and carbon fibre mix with built in avionics. I've started saving.....

[Rallye Driver]

When I had my engine failure I was wearing a helmet, which undoubtedly saved my life.

I didn't realise it at the time, but the impact split my bonedome in two places at the front on both sides. I was spitting out broken teeth and had a gashed chin from the strap - all caused by the impact, as I realised later. But during my ten days in hospital and having lights shone in my eyes at regular intervals there was never any hint that I might be suffering from concussion or anything worse. It was the chest injuries I suffered which interested the doctors.

I was wearing an Alpha helmet, which was replaced with a newer model. They have good whiplash protection too, with a ratchet to tighten up the neck restraint. They aren't cheap, but I don't begrudge what I spent.

An emergency will happen when you least expect it, so give yourself a chance by being sensibly clothed - no fleeces or trainers - and wear what protection you can. It may save your life too.

RD :ok:

[False Capture]

Which of the following is the main reason a PPL would wear a helmet:
a) Wearing a helmet makes them look like a fighter pilot.
b) Wearing a helmet will preserve their life.


I think most PPLs wear a helmet because of answer a) and they justify it with answer b).

[eharding]

And ATPLs wear helmets because? :}

[B200Drvr]

I fly a T6 Texan (Harvard) and always wear one. I think if you are going to do any aerobatics or unusual attitudes in a machine were you nut is close to the canopy or tubing, you should always wear one. I do however agree that the RAF models are very heavy as apposed to my HGU-55 & French CGF Gallet.

[Whiskey Kilo Wanderer]

I wear a USAF type bone dome in the Rans S6. I don’t think there is anything less like a fighter aircraft and some times I feel a real pr*t, but on at least one occasion it’s saved me from a good clout on the head.


Another feature is that it’s warm in winter (no cabin heat in my S6). It has DC headset electronics built in and the audio is as good as my ANR headset, without the pressure on the ears/head.


Admittedly when taking people flying, part of my PAX brief is on the lines of ”…don’t worry that I’m wearing a bone dome, I’ve no intention of crashing the aeroplane!”


Safe Flying.
Richard W.

[davidatter708]

I've often wondered about this and I asked the military guys a while ago here is the link to that thread hope it helps. Let us know how you get on
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=221495
David

[Windy Militant]

Which of the following is the main reason a PPL would wear a helmet:
a) Wearing a helmet makes them look like a fighter pilot.
b) Wearing a helmet will preserve their life.

Or is it
c) Wearing a helmet is so much easier and less painful than screwing the visor pivots to your head and it also stops the wind blowing your head set off when you've got an open cockpit aircraft! ;)

[TheGorrilla]

Also good for birdstrike protection. I clearly need to wear a helmet in my cub cos it goes so fast I might get a bird hit me on the BACK of my head! :} :} :}

[False Capture]

And ATPLs wear helmets because?eharding, ATPLs can afford helmets because they have jobs.

I clearly need to wear a helmet in my cub cos it goes so fast I might get a bird hit me on the BACK of my head!TheGorrilla, so you'd rather a bird hit your purple-helmet?:oh:

[Sleeve Wing]

Hey, Gorrilla..........

"Also good for birdstrike protection. I clearly need to wear a helmet in my cub cos it goes so fast I might get a bird hit me on the BACK of my head! "

I thought you always flew with your "birds" in the front seat, to put the C of G back where it ought to be !!! ........and what's all this about hitting them when you take 'em flying ?
'Spose that must be what's happening when you do those wobbly approaches !
Yeh, better keep your helmet on !! :p :ok:

[TheGorrilla]

Sleevy Baby!!

Have you ever thought your sex appeal might improve if you wore a helmet?? :eek:

As for hitting birds, not really, more like poking! :mad:

[TST Tom]

I always wear a 'Lynx' (http://www.lynx-avionics.com) polycarbonate helmet flying my Thruster TST. It's lightweight, keeps your head warm and fits nicely over a headset.

The only drawback is 'helmet hair' after a couple of hours, which can give you an unfortunate bedraggled look when booking in at a new airfield :}

Tom

[eharding]

eharding, ATPLs can afford helmets because they have jobs.


Call that a job? I've been a full time WW layabout for 12 months, and you and the Gorilla have still managed to log more clubhouse time than me - frankly, you two are so good at it I swear you go off to a WW clubhouse simulator to brush up on lounging about - and maybe practise a tricky single-starter lunch with a total apple-crumble failure - before popping over to do it for real.

As the Gorilla will testify, my experience of getting in and out of the Cub
would indicate a helmet is a safety requirement - damn near brained myself
on the concrete falling out of the bloody thing last time.

[TheGorrilla]

"And ATPLs wear helmets because? :}"

The stewardess might have an STD.

[QDMQDMQDM]

I think I'm talking myself into this:

http://www.alphaeaglehelmet.co.uk/

[False Capture]

Have you ever thought your sex appeal might improve if you wore a helmet??

But Gorrilla, it might clash with his marigolds.:\

eharding, you forgot about the beer simulator.:hmm:

[TheGorrilla]

...... And his leather underpants!

I take it beer simulation doesn't involve drinking caliber?:yuk:

[eharding]

I think I'm talking myself into this:
http://www.alphaeaglehelmet.co.uk/


As per previous posts, the Alpha IMHO offers the best impact protection, but check your personal headroom (inverted) before parting with the cash....

[False Capture]

I can't wait to see TheGorrilla wearing his new Alpha helmet in his Chipmunk. I think it's going to be a tight fit.:{

[Sleeve Wing]

What ? The Gorrilla in a Chippy ??
Chr**t, that WILL be a tight fit !!!!!!!!

Meanwhile,..........back at the thread...................suitable Helmets, wasn't it ?...!

The Hooded Man (!).

[Pitts2112]

QDM,

I'm thinking the Alpha may be a bit overkill (which is ironic in itself, but I couldn't think of a better word) if you're only going to be using them in a Cub. As a mate of mine says, a Cub carries just enough energy to barely kill you.

Obviously headroom in the Cub usually isn't a problem, but I seem to remember the Alpha being extremely expensive for what it was. I and most of the aerobatic pilots I know that wear helmets use the HGU-55. Get it from the States at current exchange rates and you can do very well. They're a good helmet (good enough for NATO fighter jocks is good enough for me) and they're lightweight. Given your application and how much you're going to be wearing it, I think the light weight, slimmer profile, and reduced cost of the HGU-55 would make it a better choice.

But that's just my .02 worth.

Pitts2112

[QDMQDMQDM]

QDM,

I'm thinking the Alpha may be a bit overkill (which is ironic in itself, but I couldn't think of a better word) if you're only going to be using them in a Cub. As a mate of mine says, a Cub carries just enough energy to barely kill you.

Obviously headroom in the Cub usually isn't a problem, but I seem to remember the Alpha being extremely expensive for what it was. I and most of the aerobatic pilots I know that wear helmets use the HGU-55. Get it from the States at current exchange rates and you can do very well. They're a good helmet (good enough for NATO fighter jocks is good enough for me) and they're lightweight. Given your application and how much you're going to be wearing it, I think the light weight, slimmer profile, and reduced cost of the HGU-55 would make it a better choice.

But that's just my .02 worth.


Thanks a lot. I thought the alpha was lighter and smaller than the HGU-55, but will check it out.

I don't think I'm that likely to crash, but equally I am starting to approach nearer to the limits of what the machine can achieve than I used to and that obviously increases the risk of a misjudgement.

The SC is very uncrashworthy, in my opinion, and quite a few of the US pilots wear helmets and swear by them. One of the prime Alaskan safety mods is to put an extra brace in the roof as the cockpit area has a habit of concertinaing together in a crash. Any kind of deforming impact in a Super Cub will undoubtedly result in major head injury without a helmet. Equally, however, the seat backs are very low and there will be enormous momentum imparted to the head round a fulcrum at the shoulder blades, so a heavy helmet will increase the already major risk of cervical spine injury.

I am certainly not over-anxious, merely a pragmatist.

[Pitts2112]

I don't think what you're doing is too much, necessarily. Its kind of the way our safety culture is going. When I learned to ride a bike there wasn't even such a thing as a helmet to wear. Now, my neice and nephew themselves wouldn't think of getting on their bikes without their helmets and even I usually wear one now, too. It won't necessarily come to pass but it wouldn't surprise me, either if, in 10 years, we all wear helmets for all flying as a matter of course.

I personally still don't wear a helmet in regular GA aircraft but there's certainly no reason not to. Just be prepared to take a bit of stick at the club for the next 10 years until the above mentioned takes place. :)

On the Alpha//hg-55 issue, I don't know the difference in performance and weight but the difference in price was about double when I was looking into them 7 years ago and the profile of the Alpha is enormous compared to the HGU-55. The sheer unnecessary size of the Alpha ruled it out for me as I couldn't get it into the cockpit of the Pitts. In fact, I don't have enough headroom for even the HGU-33 with the visor cover.

These people that say it's better not to wear a helmet because of the weight/momentum issues are missing the point. I'd rather have my helmeted head hit the panel a little harder than my bare one because it's still going to come out better. With the strap angles in the SuperCub, though, I think you may have a point about the weight difference between two helmets.

See if you can find a place to try them both out and talk to someone genuinely knowledgeable about them. Regardless of which one you go with, it's a significant investment so you want to get it right, obviously.

As for pushing the boundaries of the machine and yourself, I'm all for that, but it is definitely a case of small increments at a time. I did exactly the same thing in the SuperCub and later, a Taylorcraft. If you're doing it and think you need a helmet to protect yourself, you may want to look at how you're approaching that.

Good luck with whatever you decide and stay safe!

Pitts2112

[QDMQDMQDM]

As for pushing the boundaries of the machine and yourself, I'm all for that, but it is definitely a case of small increments at a time. I did exactly the same thing in the SuperCub and later, a Taylorcraft. If you're doing it and think you need a helmet to protect yourself, you may want to look at how you're approaching that.

It's simply a question that if you fly nearer the edge of the envelope the margins are smaller.

[Pitts2112]

True enough. Just make sure to keep the margin on the correct side of the line. The key to smaller margins is to make sure the judgement and skills are honed to a finer edge BEFORE starting to narrow the margins. But you only improve by challenging yourself. It's all in how you do it.

Pitts2112

[englishal]

We have 4 point harnesses in our plane, which is probably the best first measure to take, they would certainly prevent the head whipping into the panel on a bad forced landing.........But would probably require a bundle of paperwork to install if you don't already have them ;)

[QDMQDMQDM]

I have four point harnesses, but they won't make that much difference in a confined Super Cub, where the real issue is the cockpit area deforming and / or the seat attachment points letting go.

It's a great aircraft, hard to crash, but pretty rubbish if you ever do. Very uncrashworthy.

[Droopystop]

One or two other things to consider.....:
They are very hot and sweaty in the summer
I am not convinced about the noise attenuation levels (although there is nothing to stop you using earplugs)
Great to have a smoked visor, so you can leave your sunglasses in the car.
But if there are things in your cockpit waiting to scalp you, there is no contest, but they do take some getting used to.

[eharding]

On its own, I don't think the noise attenuation of the HGU-55 comes close to a DC headset - but with the CEP earplugs its at least on a par with a decent headset.

http://www.cep-usa.com/

[Pitts2112]

I concur with eHarding. The sound attenuation on the HGU-55 is rubbish but that's because of the way the earcups are built. Saying that, the head-impact protecion of a set of DCs is rubbish, too. I usually wear earplugs with my helmet and it works out just fine. It just depends on what you want, really.

Pitts2112

[QDMQDMQDM]

What about a David Clark helmet then?

[eharding]

The noise attenuation in a DC Helmet will be as good as the DC headset you put in it, plus a dB or so. Whilst the blurb says they will fit standard visors, what they mean are the peaked-cap variety, rather than a normal helmet visor.

The nape fitting on the DC helmet seems designed to restrict neck movement backwards in normal use, and completely at odds with the cut-back nape design of the Gentex HGU33/55/68 shell - I originally bought DC helmet shells, but wouldn't wear one now given the choice.

[TheGorrilla]

I wouldn't like to comment if I knew anything about Dave Clarks helmet!!! :mad: