Biman A310 accident DXB Mon 12th March

[Hansol]

I understand DXB is closed this morning with a Bangladesh airlines flight blocking the runway, anyone got any further info?

[Airbubba]

From the "College Times":

Malfunction on Biman Airlines injures 14; shuts Dubai airport
(AP)

12 March 2007

DUBAI — An apparent mechanical malfunction on a Bangladeshi airliner injured 14 passengers and closed Dubai International Airport, an airport official said on Monday.


Bangladesh’s Biman Airlines Flight 006 was taking off at 6:30 a.m. Monday when a “small incident” occurred that caused the takeoff to be aborted and the plane halted on the runway, said the airport official, speaking on customary condition of anonymity.

Fourteen injured passengers were taken to a hospital and the plane was quickly evacuated, the official said.

The plane was travelling to the Bangladeshi capital Dhaka.

A Dubai government-owned radio station said the Middle East’s busiest airport would be closed for as long as 12 hours and asked travellers to phone their airlines for more information. Incoming flights were being diverted elsewhere.


http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticleNew.asp?xfile=data/theuae/2007/March/theuae_March369.xml&section=theuae&col=

[flite idol]

The knock on effect for EK will be a nightmare!!!!!

[nolimitholdem]

You know, you'd think in a city that can slap a 60-storey building up (and I do mean "slap it up", *shudder*) seemingly overnight, that maybe they could get their heads out of their asses and finish the other runway.

Then again, that's Dubai. Building the tallest building in the world...but don't even have home delivery postal service. The world's most luxurious hotel...and arguably some of the world's worst traffic...

:ugh:

[camber]

Airport closed. A310 off end of RWY 12 L. Nose landing gear collapse, and slides deployed.

[taiar]

Just heard DXB ground inform an aircraft waiting for clearance to expect the airport to be shut down atleast till 0930Z at the earliest.

[flite idol]

Goodness........I hope they didnt` do any damage to that classic 707 static display at the end of the runway! Maybe they should just drag the Biman jet to the side of it to expand the collection!

[Gulfstreamaviator]

All take offs will now be from RAK, to save DXB....

The 311 Highway will be busy this morning.

[Airbubba]

Airport closed. A310 off end of RWY 12 L. Nose landing gear collapse, and slides deployed.

I remember seeing a Biman DC-10 bowing for prayers off the end of the runway in Dhaka years ago, probably around 1993. Also, Biman ran a DC-10 off the runway in Chittagong in 2005 as I recall.

FedEx had an A-310 runway overrun in Manila in 1999, the pilots were fired but ALPA later got their jobs back. After $20 million in repairs the A-310 was put back in service, unfortunately, the same day a FDX MD-11 went off the runway in Subic.

Seems like DXB has been in single runway operation forever. Will the EK aircraft recover in SHJ perhaps and bus the pax back to DXB?

[easyduzzit]

Yes I'm sure they will, to where its' predeccors parked once upon a time, namely PIA & Aeroflot(?).

No details yet murmoured, however eye-witness reports state, bang was heard then nose gear collapsed, on the rwy past the half way mark, on the T.O. roll, 12L.
came to a grinding halt in a spray of angle-grinder effects on the end of the rwy. No fire or disastrous conditions evident.

I can only deduce that crew experienced something with the NLG & decided an abort, which then caused the collapse, possibly dragging the gear aft & under the fuselage???
They must have been very close to Vr, which would mean light loads on the gear at that time.

Will keep posted.

[anartificialhorizon]

Anyone heard a rumour about the Biman A310 hitting a "foreign object" lying on the runway immediately prior to the gear collapsing.......?

[CHIVILCOY]

Photo and story here;http://www.gulfnews.com/nation/Traffic_and_Transport/10110582.html

[PsychedelicGoat]

Biman has a history of shoddy finances and has never made a profit. I would be interested in seeing its maintenance history for all of its remaining few aircraft. One of the reasons people still fly international with Biman, is that it normally allows over 42kg luggage per passenger free with each ticket.

[jewitts]

http://www.dubaiairport.com/DIA/English/TopMenu/News+and+Press/Airport+News/DCA+Statement+on+Biman+BG+006+Accident.htm
Looks like it connected with something at speed on the runway? Note they say " Had an accident during departure".

[llondel]

Got to love the Gulfnews reporting:

Civil Defence sources said that two of the aircraft's engines were on fire as the plane was about to take off, resulting in one of the wheels breaking on the plane.It's only got two engines and the text implies that the broken wheel was a direct result of the engine fires.

[Desertia]

"Biman has a history of shoddy finances and has never made a profit. I would be interested in seeing its maintenance history for all of its remaining few aircraft. One of the reasons people still fly international with Biman, is that it normally allows over 42kg luggage per passenger free with each ticket."

If memory serves, I think it was also (and maybe still is) not too fussy about people smoking on international flights :D

[GMDS]

There we go. Just recently the EU banned the A310’s from PIA flying into Europe, due to serious safety standard doubts. GCAA (UAE) saw no reason to do the same which quickly evoked the thanks by Pakistan to their (o-quote) “Muslim Brothers” for accepting their reassurance that all their aircraft were serviced to the highest international standard. So the religion card was played at the safety game, we all agree it has nothing to do there.
Another brother now inflicts some serious delays to Dubai with a equally doubtful A310. It’s the standard of maintenance and crew that matters, not implying that it necessarily led to this accident, however at the same time it cannot be ruled out. If the ME wants to play a major role in international aviation, it has to abolish its double standard lots of us suspect in applying safety and crewing standards of local talent.
Physics, Mother Nature and especially Mr. Murphy make no difference between the players. As we share the same air and groundspace with these players, please accept that I am NOT trying to discriminate anyone, but simply want to remain safe while going after my business. I think we have a right to bring this subject up to a professional discussion.

[4granted]

First 777 just landing on 30R , so seems all open....??

Was so nice and quite here in Uptown....

4G:)

[PsychedelicGoat]

Dont know about smoking, but I flew domestic with them 5 months ago. Passenger in front noticed his seat was wet (vomit). Unsmiling stewardess gave him a blanket to sit on. He sat on it, he had no choice. He wasn't smiling either.

Anyway, if you search on pprune for Biman, you will see some postings on how they are on the brink of bankruptcy (they've been on the brink for some 16 years or so).

[jewitts]

CNN now saying "Some officials are saying this was caused by a malfunction in the aircraft and that its heavy weight caused the problem"

[fox niner]

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/WORLD/meast/03/12/dubai.airport/t1.plane.jpg

[Dr Know]

Regardless of how sh!t the operation or A/C, I think its worth mentioning that by all accounts the crew did a good job. :D

[PsychedelicGoat]

No deaths, so thats always a relief.

[Short Approach?]

Regardless of how sh!t the operation or A/C, I think its worth mentioning that by all accounts the crew did a good job.

Somone always bring that up, and most times it´s true. This time, I´m not so sure. Presure from above should never lead to a poorly maintained A/c leaving the tarmac. Front crew is last in line to keep it from happening.

[snowfalcon2]

According to airliners.net, there was earlier today a Cathay Pacific cargo 747 bursting a tire on landing with debris remaining on the runway. So far no news that would connect it with the Biman incident, thou.

Can a piece of a tire on the runway actually break a nosegear?

[Togalk]

no, but according to the tower the left engine caught fire, that could be caused by ingesting some tire fragments.

[atiuta]

Agreed.

Doesn't explain how the nose gear collapsed though and, lets face it, that was the real issue today.

According to my in depth investigation that is now complete, there are two possible causes.

(1) The Biman crew rejected beyond Vr and "lowered" the nose gear onto the runway thereby breaking the Nose Gear.

(2) Poor maintenance resulted in the nose gear collapse at some point on the TO roll.

Pilots say (2), Engineers say (1).

Seriously, they used all 4000m of 12L so they must have been moving rather quickly at RTO time.

[easyduzzit]

short approach, well said!

There's other "non-confirmed" reports that the nose wheels were off the deck before being smashed back into the ground, which they would have been, in order to destroy the NLG! These bits are pretty tough!

This possibly after attempting an RTO due engine problem at Vr + speeds, not the wisest moves from the boys up front, me thinks?

Now just waiting for the proposed "uncommanded elevator down deflection", scenario! Very Unlikely.

They're extremely lucky they came to a halt so promptly, with the added assistance of both belly & engine intakes acting as additional friction brakes. could have easily plowed into the 707 static display & other array of private BBJ's & the likes, collecting dust down in that corner.

[Wiley]

Absolutely no bearig on this story, but (thankfully) at a time when Dubai had two operational runways, a B747 from another country that Bangla Desh was once part of blocked the same runway and wiped out all the ILS aerials after the crew aborted a takeoff and ran a long way off the end of the runway before the aircraft came to a halt. I believe the accident inquiry found that they had aborted at VR+15, well after rotation had commenced.

The crew were hailed as heroes in both the local media and the media of their home country.

[Charley B]

Wiley,
That wasnt the same incident that was reported on here quite a long while ago,when the captain got too close to one of the portacabins next to the runway was it???Do believe he demolished them???
It was posted on here,and had me in absolute stitches,I must find it and print it out to keep(It was definately from a country out that way somewhere!!)

[tubby linton]

Most airbus used optimized speeds to improve performance.I have seen speeds of 160kt+ at medium weights across the entire airbus family for take off.Also with a very long runway they may have been using 15/0 as a flap setting which gives a very long ground roll.

[HowlingWind]

Wiley et al,

For those of us who have ventured to the likes of DXB only recently, how long ago was it that Dubai had two working runways, and why do they only have one now?

Also, aren't they building some bloody huge airport out by Jebel Ali that is designed to someday be the "world's largest?" I understand it's supposed to start out for freight ops only, but can anyone relate the status of that? Thanks.

[Fox3snapshot]

Don't start me on the 'other runway' issue (oops looks like you have :p ) , it has been a protracted, frustrating and shockingly busy time for all concerned with the delays in getting the other runway completed. In fact not even convinced it will ever happen!!

It has meant extra spacing for arrivals which with the unprecedented traffic growth has led to significant delays. This coupled with the closure of our major air route to Europe via PAPA due to a childish political spat between UAE and our neighbours in Iran has compounded this with outbound flow restrictions as well. This is due to the airway that utilises a procedural boundary, b*oo*y dangerous airway too I might add!!! :uhoh:

Have had some unconfirmed stories as to what happened with the runway, the first was that due to heavy equipment using the runway for tranisting to and from works areas damage was induced the latest, more entertaining and quite feasable delay was due to the fact the runway PCN rating was not suitable for 777 ops....:D Good effort, probably only half of the locally based airlines fleet affected!!!

Just another MEM (Middle East Moment). The place is being run by absolute numpties. :hmm:

[easyduzzit]

fox3 :ok:

The Jebel Ali Intl "O Hare" project is in full steam ahead with 6 runways planned there!

I wonder if anyone has yet sat down & figured out the traffic flow patterns & accommodation, what with Abu Dhabi Int 150kms down the drag( & growing rapidly - ETIHAD base), DXB Intl, which isnt going anywhere in the near future(ie - demolition) Sharjah Intl 20 kms NE from DXB, & then there's still RAK & Al Ain airports within spitting distance !!!7
I sincerely hope that CAT 3 ops will be available at JA (unlike DXB Intl) to cater for the mist that rolls in there frequently, although on every occurence where it causes upsets & mass diversions, its again branded as "UNPRECEDENTED"! yeah right!

All Looks & Sounds very GRAND!

[MrLeGuen]

Video here

Click here to watch dubai-plane-crash (http://media.putfile.com/dubai-plane-crash)

[TowerDog]

The A-310 did a high speed abort and the nose gear collapsed right behind us: We were parked at E-41 ad had landed 1/2 earlier.
I was trying to sleep for the 3 hour ground stop, but heard popping noises like engines stalling in full reverse. Did not think much of it and just rolled over in bed.

5 minuttes later some guy comes running up the ladder and screams "aircraft on fire, evacuate, evacuate...

Turns out all the smoke from the A-310s melting rubber had blown over to us and freaked out the Pakistani loaders, they thought we were on fire and ran for their life.

Some of them thought of waking up the flight crew. Thanks mates.

We went to the hotel for a good rest and came back for a 1500Z departure.
The airport was remarkable calm with no log-jams on the taxi-ways or too much radio clutter. The controllers did a hell of a good job in my opinion.
(In case somebody asked...:ok: )

The 310 was hauled off and parked 2 over from us. We got a good look, the engines were flat underneath like the B-737-300s :sad:

Remind me to carry more gas next time I go to a single-runway airport...:cool:

[wingman330340]

YA,
A biman A310 burst a main tyre , rejected T/O at high speed more tyre burst and nose gear collapsed at the end.
Runway closed for 8 hrs and then reopened after towing the aircraft away.
Couple a major injuries during evacuation and the rest were minor.

[easyduzzit]

wingman

you sound informed on this matter!
any details as to which tyres burst and in what order? stories circulating it was nose wheel/s 1st, then mains after RTO?
still I cant see 1 deflated nose wheel, resulting in a NG collapse!
this would have to be compounded by excessive speed or overweight etc.
any facts regarding existing debris on rwy being the primary cause?

[SMOC]

You only have to watch the vid to see the nose gear collapse was way before the end of the runway!

[Few Cloudy]

So where is the evidence of a "poorly maintained" aircraft which the crew should not have taken please? Why did that post rate a "well done"?

Talk about mud slinging...

[Dr Know]

Short App.
Why dont we kick them while they are down!!!:confused:

[Hansol]

How about an over weight aircraft that couldn't get off the deck and had to smash its nose landing gear back down. (speculation)?

[Short Approach?]

Short App.
Why dont we kick them while they are down!!!

I'm not kicking anyone. I refuse to participate in the ever ongoing back-padding contest. Sure no one was killed but how can that automaticly lead to "job well done lads"? That's as speculative as anything else.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

Shame it is only a "short" clip. There must be many security cameras at many airports, perhaps one or two dedicated to the runway, might be of benefit, perhaps at each end looking down the runway.
What did the guys who came into frame as it went past the camera must have thought.......glf

[idg]

Now hearing rumours that the landing a/c in front of the Biman hit some debris on the runway themselves and parts of it were imbedded in their a/c. A/c arrived on stand missing one tyre, but I'm hearing that everything else was intact.

The Biman then was cleared for take-off behind this landing a/c (CX freighter?) and 'collected' some parts of the debris too.

The engine fires reported as it was 'taking off' appear to have been the engine nacelles running along the tarmac!!

So perhaps the bashing is a bit premature indeed and that they did a good job to stop the a/c (without reverse...nacelles on tarmac?) having had their nose gear 'taken out' for them!

The question that has to be answered is that whose bits were left on the runway in the first place....it's all very quiet on that front.

Any inputs from our DXB members?

[nolimitholdem]

I say we blame Cathay! Because...well, because it's just fun to see those serious "Commander"-type guys get all wound up!

:}

[lomapaseo]

I say we blame Cathay! Because...well, because it's just fun to see those serious "Commander"-type guys get all wound up!


Well if it happened in france they sure as hell would have blamed the whole thing on the operator who left the crud on the runway:}

[easyduzzit]

It is still going to take a lot more than some pieces of rubber or fibreglass to knock out a NLG!
OK boys, who's airie arrived with "additional bits" embedded, besides a blown tyre.
Flat spotted, blown wheels are quite common on the old -200 freighters, no real dramas, other than self damage to plumbing or flaps n fairings.

secondly, w.r.t. that video clip, from someones mobile phone, it was, displays the 310 still hurtling down the rwy at that point, where it disappears behind the hangars and that is well into the last third of the runway end!! The runway ends opposite the hangars seen on the left.
God alone knows how he stopped on the runway, in such a short distance!
video speed playback could be sped up though, 'cos it's unbelievable.

[Doors to Automatic]

Looking at the speed of the taxying 747 I don't think the video was speeded up

[BusyB]

Sounds to me that DXB has some serious problems monitoring their "single" runway. How will they cope with 2 working?:confused:

[fokker1000]

My view - The crew reacted, and stayed on the grey stuff without killing anyone.
If that was your base check you would get a tick in a box, yes or no? They did it for real. Good on them.
If you fly in that part of the world without enough fuel to go else where, when a runway becomes unuseable, then fit drop tanks (joke), or work for an airline that lets the skipper decide how much juice they want. IMHO. :ugh:

[tubby linton]

So how much damage was done to the 310 and does anybody have any post incident images?The 310 is starting to become quite rare as a pax aircraft.You don't often see them in a pax role in western Europe.

[kumul1]

From a mate of mine on the recovery team...(this is after all a rumour network), the 310 lost an engine, possibly both prior to the nose gear collapse so she must have injested some of the deris. The nose gear collapsed backward either from hitting something hard or from impact with the tarmac as she might have been in the early stages of rotation. The crew really just had to hang on and hope for the best as the TR's were inop and control was limited.
The video is from one of the security cameras from the new EK hangers and not from airport surveillance hence the angle.
Once again, this is a rumour network so all this is his opinion.

[MikeStanton]

Just found out that a friend of mine was on the plane :eek: He believes the plane was approaching take off i assume v1 when the breaks came on as hard as you could imagine and after a heavy thud the nose came down breaking the gear and leaving the plane sliding on its engines.. he is ok just a little brused from the fighting as pax tried to get out :eek:

[tubby linton]

Interesting that the nlg retracted backwards as it normally retracts forwards into the gear bay.It must have been a significant impact!

[PsychedelicGoat]

Scary Clip. That will be episode 666 on National Geographic's Air Crash investigations :\

[lomapaseo]

It is statistically unlikely that the engine(s) would ingest runway debris at V1 or above and be damaged to the point of making the plane unflyable.

[canadair]

it is statistically unlikely that Concorde will run over a little strip of metal, destroy a tire, hurling bits of rubber into the wing, holing the fuel tanks, spraying gas into the engines, catch on fire, and end up a big smoking hole in a hotel.

whats your point?

[canadair]

LAS VEGAS (AP) - An Air Canada jet with 146 people aboard was barreling down a runway at 126 mph when it blew landing gear tires and aborted its takeoff from Las Vegas, a Federal Aviation Administration official said Tuesday.

No injuries were reported after Air Canada flight 547 came safely to a stop Monday about halfway down a 14,510-foot runway at McCarran International Airport, the nation's fifth-busiest.

All 140 passengers and six crew were ushered down portable stairs and bused back to the terminal. They were put up overnight at a hotel and flown Tuesday to their original destination in Calgary, Alberta, aboard another plane, airport and airline officials said.

The disabled Airbus 320, which did not became airborne, remained on the runway at McCarran for more than 17 hours with engines damaged by debris from shredded tires, said Ian Gregor FAA spokesman for the regional office in Hawthorne, Calif.

"Both engines are damaged and the left main gear is badly damaged," Gregor said. He said pilots reported brake problems on the aircraft before the mishap.


Uh Oh!
"statistically", that should'nt have happened!

2 DAYS AGO!

[lomapaseo]

whats your point?

It probably wasn't unflyable for the postulated scenario. Too many hoops to pass through to believe otherwise (Occam's razor)

[canadair]

perhaps yer man Occam would have had reason to ponder his conclusions, had he taken into account the repercussions of introducing a lump of tire to Boyles and Charles combined gas law?

as an aside though, full credit for bringing the theories of a 14th century franciscan monk into a discussion on a rejected takeoff :D

very Monty Pythonish!

[Haaan]

The question still stands. Why did the nose wheel colapse.
Did the colapse of the nose wheel cause the accident or
was the colapsing nose wheel a result of an accident?

[Dengue_Dude]

I know absolutely no details about this particular accident.

When you consider how many DC10s, A310s and F28s they have (something around 15 aircraft TOTAL), their accident rate is appalling.

In the last 5 years they have seriously damaged or destroyed four aircraft to my knowledge (ie 25% of their fleet) and most of those were crew error.

Having flown with them on contract for 12 months, I am very clear why this happens - they are vastly over confident and display levels of arrogance that are truly scary. This is however offset by the good pilots who are as good as any in the world - sadly there are not enough of them.

Once again, good luck dictates there were no serious casualties.

[PsychedelicGoat]

Did the colapse of the nose wheel cause the accident or
was the colapsing nose wheel a result of an accident?

aha! The chicken or the egg hypothesis... :}

[Five Green]

It is possible for the nose gear to get severely dammaged after the nose gear tire goes flat departs the rim and any side load is placed on it. ie trying to straighten the a/c as it swerves from main wheel burst etc.

But hard to say without any evidence as obviously there are quite a few possible scenarios.

[robin747]

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/476000/biman_air_accident_dubai_airport/

:rolleyes:

[ironbutt57]

from the looks of things, the drag link must have failed to allow the nose gear to fail aft...what precipitated that is anyone's guess at this stage..

[Jazbag]

In my part of the world a Runway inspection is mandatory after any aircraft has reported a tire burst/bird hit before another aircraft is allowed to use the runway.

Did anyway say anything about extra fuel?

[kumul1]

The operative word there being "Reported", Jazbag. I'm sure the same would have been done in this case.

[easyduzzit]

SO..... Is that it?!!!! Case closed?
No more questions, No more explanations?

I heard that Biman were planning to sue the Dubai Government for "negligence" in their safety of operational runways(pardon-Runway)
Now that, I think, would be a step in the right direction!
Best of Luck to them, I hope they succeed.

The stricken aircraft is presently being dismantled, and paletized, engines cowls etc. What for dont know.
The Nose gear "was" broken off backwards & embedded into the fwd lower belly, below the fwd cargo comp.
Seeems to strengthen reports that the nose was off, when some significant piece of debris; like piece of a wheel rim, ex B742 F, was encountered, causing crew to then abort the take-off.
(this after a previous landing Freighter 'had reported' possible contamination & damage to their own craft)
RTO braking plus the inertia, would have smashed the NG back onto the deck causing its aftward failure! as mentioned it was flush into the lower forward fuselage.

Any thing else that's surfaced since the abrupt silence???:oh: