Flight Student Pax Lands Commuter Plane [Archive]

Airbubba

10th Feb 2002, 22:11

This doesn't happen often, except in Hollywood ("Airport '77", "Airplane!").... .__________________________________________

Flight student landed plane in emergency on Cape Cod

by Dave Wedge . .Sunday, February 10, 2002

As investigators try to determine why a pilot nearly passed out at the controls of a Cape Cod-bound small plane, the young woman who took over and miraculously landed the aircraft - without landing gear - is being hailed as a heroine.

"We are truly amazed at her efforts,'' Cape Air spokeswoman Michelle Haynes said of Melanie Oswalt. "She climbed into the seat and took the controls and landed that plane. It was an extraordinary effort.''

The high-flying drama unfolded around 8:15 p.m. Friday when a Cessna 402 en route from Martha's Vineyard to Hyannis made an emergency landing in a closed Provincetown airport. The pilot of the plane, whose name was not released, "became disoriented'' at the helm and nearly passed out. The pilot was described by Haynes as a man in his 50s with years of flying experience.

Oswalt, who works security for the regional airline, noticed the plane was veering off course and saw that the pilot was in distress.

"She realized he was disoriented and made a determination to land the plane,'' Haynes said.

Oswalt, an aspiring pilot with just 50 hours of training flights under her belt, managed to land the plane on its belly without the use of any landing gear. There were three businessmen on the plane and no one was injured.

The pilot was taken to a local hospital where he was treated and later released.

The pilot was tested for alcohol and drugs but the results won't be known for a week, Haynes said. She also said officials are looking into whether he may have had a medical condition.

"We are now investigating what happened to that pilot. We just don't know what happened,'' she said.

The pilot, who has a clean flying record, has been suspended pending the outcome of an internal probe. The Federal Aviation Administration and National Transportation Safety Board also are investigating the incident.

"He will not fly again until we find out what happened to him,'' Haynes said. "We will not rest until we find out what happened.''

Oswalt takes flying lessons in Chatham and has done several solo landings at the Provincetown airport. The facility was closed at the time of the incident but the airstrip was lit.

"They were all shaken up,'' Haynes said of the passengers. "But they all walked off the plane and were O.K. We're very grateful to Melanie.''

Haynes said Oswalt was "confident'' in her flying skills and is now more eager than ever to earn her pilot's license. Cape Air pilots must log 1,500 hours before they can fly commercially.

"She's a pilot-in-training but I'd say she's well on her way now,'' Haynes said.

____________________________________________

Cape Air is a scheduled operator, see:

<a href="http://www.flycapeair.com/" target="_blank">http://www.flycapeair.com/</a>

zerozero

10th Feb 2002, 23:13

No doubt about it: Job well done!

And I hate to be so cynical but wouldn't it be a shame if the FAA tried to violate her for not following proper procedures (i.e. lowering the landing gear)?

The heroine with a tarnished record who becomes a Machiavellian type bureaucrat and eventually reforms a government agency.

Now I'd pay to see that movie! <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

tiger burn

10th Feb 2002, 23:28

Well done Miss Oswalt!!!!! Even more of a courageous feat as according to BBC R4, she made the emergency landing after dark. Great to have a happy ending given such precarious circumstances. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

interested

10th Feb 2002, 23:59

Ooooh, I dunno? I reckon with some 50 hours of "training flights" under her belt, the least she could have done was lower the gear and put the Cessna 402 down in one piece!

Let's face it, she was not faced with assymetric flight or any other failure. Good job, lass, but do try to do better next time. :) :) :)

Ontheairwaves

11th Feb 2002, 00:24

I agree if she has 50hours under her belt then surely she could have put the gear down....wasn't she talking to the tower and they could have said your gear's not down....after 50hrs i had my PPL and knew what a gear hangle looked like..... .But good job anyways... :) :) :)

calltheball

11th Feb 2002, 00:34

Tough audience...... <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

Check 6

11th Feb 2002, 00:57

Hey guys and gals, give the lady a break! In the U.S. the first 50 hours do not necessarily include flight in a retractable gear aircraft.

Why the "Monday Morning Quarterbacking" here? Call her a heroine and leave it at that.

You do not have the facts. She may have been sitting three seat rows behind the pilots seat, and moved forward just prior to landing and saved the day!

[ 10 February 2002: Message edited by: Check 6 ]

flapsforty

11th Feb 2002, 01:13

Great Story Airbubba!

Thanx for posting that.

FL310

11th Feb 2002, 01:55

Also I need to congratulate the un-rated twin pilot for certainly a stressfull job well done...guess what she will put in her applications later on when asked about accident history.... :)

Dead Leg...Dead ?

11th Feb 2002, 02:05

Great job, but who gets to log the flight?

TDK mk2

11th Feb 2002, 02:20

Yeah nice one airwaves (and interested), at night how exactly would the tower have seen that the gear wasn't down even if they had been there?? And how would she have known which was the PTT button (in the dark) on the yoke of a 402 which presumably also has an autopilot disconnect button and trim switch (don't quote me on that!), things I'm willing to bet her 152 (or whatever she had flown) didn't. Couldn't we just forgive her for the insurance claim this once and congratulate her for saving their lives?

An instructor once told me to get the gear travelling as soon as you get a positive climb because a gear up landing never killed anyone - discuss

[ 10 February 2002: Message edited by: TDK ]

Ignition Override

11th Feb 2002, 02:31

Luckily it was not a high-wing trying to ditch in the water. They claim that those types need something underneath to absorb the impact.

Very well done Miss O.!

Those more complex engines and much higher landing speeds would have been quite a handful by themselves, for most of us with so little training in fixed-gear, fixed-pitch prop Cessnas, Pipers etc.

shrtaprch98

11th Feb 2002, 02:52

Provincetown does not have a control tower...In fact it is only 3500 feet long. A great job indeed.

knobbygb

11th Feb 2002, 03:18

How many of us PPL's and wannabe PPL's have not daydreamed of being in such a situation? I'm sure we all think we would perform well if we were lucky(???) enough to have out chance of 5 minutes of fame - but I for one know I may well forget some of the training. This is a serious pressure situation! Well done Mel!

When you get you're license, ask Cape Air for sponsorship for a CPL and a job. You never know - gotta be worth a try!

Steepclimb

11th Feb 2002, 03:25

At that stage of training. I probably would have put the gear down, landed much too fast and killed everyone.. .My guess in all the emotional turmoil, she simply forgot. Perhaps fortunately.. .How lucky they all were that she was on board.

dallas dude

11th Feb 2002, 03:29

For the doubting Thomas who feels this fine lady "should.... have put the gear down with 50 hours of knowledge", imagine you were in an aft seat in the space shuttle and had to suddenly jump in and handle a similar emergency.

Assuming you're a commercial pilot, that's about the same leap you're expecting this lady to make.

If all aboard walked away (and it seems they did) they each owe their lives to her performance!

There's always one, isn't there?

interested

11th Feb 2002, 04:47

Hey, Dallas, lighten up dude. No-one said what you've placed in quotes above. One of these: :) is a big cheesy smile, three is positively light-hearted.

In any case, a pilot with 50 hours of "training flights" under the belt has a heap more than 50 hours of "knowledge". And, for your personal enlightenment, I had CSU props, multi, and retractable under my belt by the time I had 50 hours. So did many of my friends and acquaintances.

What's the big deal here? The lady did a good job, for sure, but she did not a lot more than I would have expected her to in the circmstances. As for making comparisons with the giant leap to a Space Shuttle, you must, of course, be joking. Or trying to wind us up with one of these: :) on yer kisser, eh? :) :) :) <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

exeng

11th Feb 2002, 04:47

I agree with dallas,

The lady did a fantastic job.

. .Regards. .Exeng

Airbubba

11th Feb 2002, 05:41

Another article from the Boston Globe:

Pilot ill, passenger lands plane

. .By Peter Demarco, Globe Correspondent, 2/10/2002

The pilot had passed out, the radio was nothing but static, and the Provincetown runway, if Melanie Oswalt could find it in the darkness, was only 3,500 feet long.

Roger Carchrie-Feltus of Hyannis and two other passengers aboard Cape Air Flight 55 from Martha's Vineyard to Hyannis on Friday night gripped their seats, unable to help.

Somehow, Oswalt, a 24-year-old security trainer for the airline, who had hitched a ride home from work, remained calm as she leaped into the copilot's seat and took the controls.

She had taken only 50 hours of flying lessons and did not have her pilot's license, and the 10-seat Cessna 402 was more complicated than anything she had flown.

Carchrie-Feltus, 53, was unaware of Oswalt's minimal flight training. He called his wife on his cellphone just moments before it went dead. ''We're going to end up in the Atlantic Ocean or a tree somewhere,'' he said.

The flight, which left Martha's Vineyard at 7:10 p.m., normally takes about 15 minutes, but the plane had been in the air for almost a half hour when Oswalt took command as the unidentified pilot became incapacitated. She struggled with the pilot for control of the plane until the other passengers grabbed him and he passed out.

She had never landed a plane with retractable landing gear and the plane's wheels were in the up position. But she was undaunted.

''She was talking with [the airline] on her cellphone,'' said Richard Bunker, a plane crash investigator for the Massachusetts Aeronautics Commission. ''At one point, somebody asked if she felt comfortable she could land the airplane. She said yes, she could. Then they lost contact.''

The plane had gone off course and descended to just 300 feet altitude near Chatham Light when Oswalt came to the rescue, Carchrie-Feltus said. She brought the plane up to about 1,000 feet, then headed to Provincetown's unmanned airport, where she had received some flight training in the past.

Approaching Provincetown, she leveled the wings and killed the throttle, as she was trained to do, putting the plane down on its belly for a bumpy - but safe - landing.

''We landed with a big thump,'' said Carchrie-Feltus, ''and came to a screeching halt really quickly.'' The passengers opened an emergency hatch and ran from the plane.

By 8 p.m. or so, it was all over. The pilot was on his way to Cape Cod Hospital for treatment of a still undisclosed ailment, and the passengers Oswalt delivered to safety were calling her a hero.

''I really felt we had a higher power on our side,'' said Carchrie-Feltus, who took flowers to Oswalt's home yesterday as he delivered his thanks. ''Melanie had planned to go to Nantucket that night and 15 minutes before the flight, she decided to go to Hyannis.''

Others also offered praise for Oswalt's deeds.

''She basically saved five lives,'' said Bunker. ''This has happened before, but frankly, in the almost 18 years I've been doing this, this is the first time I've had a passenger land a plane.''

Bunker said the plan had minimal damage, considering the circumstances.

''She just took over,'' said Michelle Haynes, spokeswoman for Cape Air. ''It was like something out of one of those airplane movies. You always think, `What if I had to take over the controls?' She did.''

Haynes said Oswalt, of West Yarmouth, did not want to make a big deal out of her actions and preferred not to speak with reporters. Attempts by the Globe to reach her were unsuccessful.

Joe Borneo, a Bridgewater State College student who was in the Alpha Eta Rho aviation fraternity there with Oswalt, doubted he could have landed the plane even though he has logged 60 hours of air time.

''The plane she landed versus the planes we train in - it's like driving a Ford Probe all your life and going to a Mack truck,'' he said.

As a reward, Haynes said, Oswalt will be given free lessons by Cape Air, with the hope that she'll become a licensed pilot one day. The passengers on board will also be offered free flights, she said.

The incident is under investigation by the National Transportation Safety Board and the Federal Aviation Administration.

Huck

11th Feb 2002, 06:15

Cape Air has a reputation for hiring pilots who are "well-seasoned." Evidently this one was a little too far gone.

A young, cheap f/o could have been logging flight time in that right seat - and could have made this incident a little less spectacular!

PK-KAR

11th Feb 2002, 07:04

Had this happened on a jetliner, the would be hero would have been shot by a Skymarshall, upon the successful landing, she would probably have been sued for damaging the aircraft, intruding the cockpit, and would be placed in the FBI watch list for successfully "taken over the controls of an aircraft" in the past.

Excellent job, everyone walked out alive, that's all that matters!

dallas dude

11th Feb 2002, 07:52

Interested,

For what it's worth I didn't reference the "quote" to a specific poster, it was meant to be generic. If you want to claim credit for the implication, fill your boots mate.

Glad to see you became so proficient and capable with such ease. Perhaps you're a natural.

Remember, JFK junior (who had considerably more experience than this lass, including retractable and some instrument training) met a less happy ending, at night.

Assuming the runway had (the typical) pilot controlled lighting, frankly, I'm amazed she found the airport at all!

Good on her!

Ignition Override

11th Feb 2002, 09:36

Very few US city airports these days have runway lights bright enough to even see them against the background, until a few miles out on final.

Many private pilots at night could have easily gotten vertigo in her situation, unless many groundlights were visible. Running off the end of the runway with the gear down also could have been bad.

Could a passenger with only "Microsoft" computer flying experience etc have saved everyone?

tiger burn

11th Feb 2002, 09:47

I echo your sentiments Dallas Dude......apparently her cell phone battery went flat during the proceedings - sods law!

And for the doubting thomas's of this thread - aw shucks,what attitudes! Get real! I sincerely hope neither you nor your pax ever experience something similar.

MO - way to go girl! :) :) :) :)

[ 11 February 2002: Message edited by: tiger burn ]

pulse1

11th Feb 2002, 13:15

I seem to remember reading of a similar story of an airman passenger landing a Vampire. He was told to land wheels up as it increased to chances of survival. Is this possible here?

interested

11th Feb 2002, 14:21

For BIK 118.60's benefit, I quote from a posted bulletin above as follows: [quote]... Provincetown's unmanned airport, where she had received some flight training in the past<hr></blockquote>This may go some way toward explaining her ability to find, and to use, the airfield in question. And, for those who wish to label me as a "doubting Thomas", I say that I doubt not a single part of the event as reported, only the news reports and posts upon here which carry the inference that the lady is, by her timely and assertive action, "a hero".

I guess it's a matter of ones definition of a hero, and my own goes a little further than the scenario as stated in this case. Surely no-one here, especially those from 'the land of the free', would wish to deprive me of my right to an opinion in the matter, would they?

And for DD, my flying experience at 50 hours is far from unusual, and that was the point in my stating it. Nothing more. Again I say, lighten up. :) :) <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

Finally, and to toss just a little more fuel on the fire, let's not overlook the fact that many UK pilots get to sit in the co-pilot seat of passenger airliners as fully fledged First Officers with a little over 200 hours of prior "flying training". Heroes one and all, then! <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

[ 11 February 2002: Message edited by: interested ]

Self Loading Freight

11th Feb 2002, 14:46

Interested--

If you doubt the lady is a hero, I'd be interested in just how many lives one has to save and under what conditions to qualify.

I sincerely hope that if I'm ever in that sort of position, there's another non-hero of that sort of calibre around. I'd be happy to trade any number of sweaty vesty Bruce Willis types.

Meanwhile, this incident is another case of cellphones conferring a safety advantage.

R

Bigmouth

11th Feb 2002, 14:48

In all the excitement it probably just didn´t occur to her that the gear was up. No gumpf checklist when you´re in a 152.. .And Huck, give it a rest. Cape Air is a quality outfit.

Gaza

11th Feb 2002, 15:56

[quote] Friday when a Cessna 402 en route from Martha's Vineyard to Hyannis made an emergency landing in a closed Provincetown airport. <hr></blockquote>

Even if it did have a control tower it would have been closed!!!

Do you remember your first time in a twin? I do! The whole feel was different. I suddenly had two power levers and a variable pitch prop for the first time. Just after a very snaking take-off my instructor remarked "Gaza, you had everything under control....until you released the brakes" <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

All I can say is "well done girl"!!

Fast Jet Wannabe

11th Feb 2002, 16:15

I've got almost 80 hours, and quite honestly, would be petrified at the thought.

Amazing. Well done.

interested

11th Feb 2002, 16:34

Well, FJW, I too say "well done". But I do not say "hero". It's amazing what one might do when one's arse is in the sling, is it not?

You trouble me though. Surely "[email protected]", with PPL, NR and Piper (not Cessna?) time of 80 hours would not truly be "petrified" at the thought? Well, at least I do hope not, especially if it is your heartfelt wish to become a fast jet pilot. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

Pandora

11th Feb 2002, 17:54

Interested,

give it a rest now, please. The girl did well. The label 'hero' came from the people whose lives she saved, and they are both entitled to their own opinion and not here to defend afforementioned opinion. You are the only one on the thread getting so wound up over what your personal definition of a hero is, and all it is doing is adding a sour note to a congratulatory thread.

While you, your friends and acqaintances are obviously made of something else, the professional pilots here (I note you give your job as author) acknowledge what a difficult thing this student pilot did, and I would like to add my own 'well done'. The step from Cessna 152 to a more complex aircraft is NOT easy, and to do it in those circumstances must have been scary too.

TowerDog

11th Feb 2002, 18:07

Yup, agree it was well done.. .Considering night, short runway etc, very well done.

Right stuff indeed.

Airbubba

11th Feb 2002, 18:22

More on the pilot incapacitation side of the story from the Boston Globe:

Pilot had history of illness on flights

He was cleared to fly 6 weeks ago

By Corey Dade, Globe Staff, 2/11/2002

The Cape Air pilot who lost consciousness while flying from Martha's Vineyard to Hyannis on Friday night was grounded last year for an undisclosed ailment, an airline official said yesterday.

About nine months ago, the pilot, identified by airline industry sources as Ronald N. Crews, was preparing to take off from Martha's Vineyard Airport when he voluntarily removed himself from the plane. Crews subsequently took a medical leave of absence, according to Cape Air spokeswoman Michelle Haynes.

Crews, 50, was cleared to fly again six weeks ago after undergoing a series of medical tests.

Haynes said she doesn't know why Crews became incapacitated in midair Friday night or what forced him off the plane last year. Because Crews has had two incidents without the airline's routine medical examinations detecting a problem, Haynes said, the airline can't be sure he won't suffer another mysterious in-flight episode.. . . .''I can't imagine that this gentleman would be flying with us again,'' Haynes said. ''This was too serious. I know I'm saying this without knowing what happened to him, but we tend to err on the side of caution.''

Friday's flight ended safely after Melanie Oswalt, one of four passengers aboard the 7:10 p.m. flight, took control of the Cessna 402, which had veered off course as Crews became disoriented and then passed out. Oswalt landed the plane without extending the landing gear at the Provincetown airport. None of the three other passengers on board was seriously hurt. Oswalt, 24, is a Cape Air security trainer with 50 hours of training on a smaller, simpler aircraft.

Haynes and Richard Bunker, an investigator for the Massachusetts Aeronautics Commission, couldn't confirm a report by passenger Roger Carchrie-Feltus of Hyannis that Oswalt and other passengers tussled with Crews for control of the plane.

Crews couldn't be reached yesterday for comment.

The Federal Aviation Administration said yesterday that it has begun investigating the incident.

Crews was treated at Cape Cod Hospital and released. Haynes said he was tested for illegal drugs and alcohol, the results of which could come today.

Crews has worked for the airline four years, and had relocated to the airline's Hyannis headquarters from its Caribbean hub in Florida, according to Haynes.

Cape Air is the largest of the nation's regional independent carriers, and the only airline with year-round service to the Cape. In addition to its dozens of flights each day to the Cape out of Logan Airport, the airline flies to the Caribbean from Key West, Fla., and San Juan.

The airline lost two of its Cessnas last year in accidents. In July, a plane crashed on a Logan runway after, according to a federal finding, the pilot ignored an air traffic controller's warning about dangerous wind currents from nearby larger aircraft. Nobody else was on board.

In January, a plane crashed three-quarters of a mile short of the runway at Martha's Vineyard. The pilot and the passenger were burned, but survived.

Cape Air said yesterday that its pilots' training and general safety practices exceed FAA guidelines.

Every six months, pilots undergo physicals. Examinations of Crews last year found him fit, Haynes said, though she couldn't say why airline officials don't know the nature of Crews's condition. Before Crews could return from medical leave, Haynes said, the airline required him to get a medical opinion independent of the routine evaluation.

''Obviously, something was missed. This gentleman had all these clearances and still became disoriented in the air. So there are some major questions,'' Haynes said.

[ 11 February 2002: Message edited by: Airbubba ]

Iron City

11th Feb 2002, 18:27

When I was taught on "complex" aircraft (variable pitch prop, retractable gear, etc) it was to get the gear up on the upwind after you could no longer land safely on the runway/overrun.

Before that as a lowly student with a lot less than 50 hours you learned to land on the softest cheapest thing you could if you couldn't get to a runway, straight bit of road, pasture, etc.

We also learned that any landing you walked away from was a good one, so good for her. Maybe not a hero perse, but a good workmanlike job of piloting.

dallas dude

11th Feb 2002, 18:33

Interested,

"Hero"....any man (woman) noted for his (her) special achievement, as per my dictionary.

You're entitled to your opinion. I still think the shoe fits, though.

Talking of lightening up, I'd need to be on crack if I gave you my airplane at 300' and expected no mistakes and full checklist compliance from you (NOT).

Besides, she didn't have Burt Lancaster talking her down!

What books do you author?

MarkD

11th Feb 2002, 18:41

Interested,

I think the point is that landing the plane when you have pax depending on you is a bit different from when you have only an instructor's and your life at risk.

All training happens over time for a reason. If you demonstrate competence before that time, it means you're better than merely average, as your tone infers.

Stop being so damn glass half-empty. Are there not enough bad news [crashes, Ch.11, on stories] on PPRuNE that you feel the need to have more???

interested

11th Feb 2002, 18:51

Pandora, thank you, I'll "give it a rest" when I choose, unless the moderators would wish to intercede to ensure such rest involuntarily. Such is the territory of freedom of speech while within the bounds of decency.

Yes, the girl did well, and those who feel she 'saved' them are entitled to call her what they please, rightly or wrongly.

Unless I am mistaken, though, those she saved were not pilots, professional or otherwise. You, on the other hand, claim to be a professional pilot and imply that I am not entitled to speak on this issue because I am a writer.

I note in your profile that you claim to hold an "f ATPL", the 'f' presumably being for 'frozen' which is a common misnomer, since there is no such licence. As I understand it, the 'f' is used to denote someone who has passed ATPL examinations but does not yet have the requisite flying experience to hold that licence. The minimum hours, I think, are some 1500. You have less than 1500, then, I assume?

As a recreational pilot, I have more than 6000 hours, including pure jet time. Does this mean that I must defer to your, 'frozen','professional' opinion on a matter that clearly relates to an as yet unlicensed young pilot in a fully functioning light aircraft? I think not. And I take some offence at your patronising and disparaging attempt here to put me in what you think is my place. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

[ 11 February 2002: Message edited by: interested ]

gravity victim

11th Feb 2002, 20:08

Rather reluctantly, because this lady did a terrific job and deserves our admiration, I agree with those who are uneasy about the use of the word 'hero' in this case. If words are too lightly used they lose their strength when they are really needed, in the same way that medals for valour have to be strictly controlled.

So: Hero = saving (or trying to save) life, at the risk of losing your own.

She was actually working to save her own neck, as well as the others, and surely would have been just as motivated and resourceful had she been alone with the incapacitated pilot. Great achievement, but not actually heroic - and I'm sure that she would agree.

Check 6

11th Feb 2002, 20:52

For those participants of this forum who would like to send Ms. Melanie Oswalt a congratulatory e-mail, send to: [email protected]

I did and bet she would greatly appreciate some more "positive" e-mails, i.e. credit where credit is certainly due.

Edited to make the email link work

[ 11 February 2002: Message edited by: Capt PPRuNe ]

Pandora

11th Feb 2002, 21:21

Oh dear.

Interested, I'd offer you the advice to calm down, but I know you won't take it. I will not be dragged into a 'my dad's bigger than your dad' style argument over hours and experience, because my point was that this is a thread which should be about a good story in the news and credit to the student pilot.

Noone wants to know how much better you would have been in the same situation because you have soooo much experience.

Now chill out.

pigboat

11th Feb 2002, 21:42

The lady deserves congratulations for her effort, not mealy mouthed detraction. At the risk of sounding chauvinistic, if she were a male she'd have big ones, made of brass.

interested

11th Feb 2002, 22:34

You are spot on in one respect, Pandora. I won't be taking advice from the 'frozen' likes of you. So why waste your time offering it?

No doubt my pointing to your lack of experience was frustrating for you, but you deserved it after your prior post.

I agree that "this is a thread which should be about a good story in the news and credit to the student pilot" and I wish that it was just that. Sadly, I fear, it is far from that and is instead yet another yarn from 'the centre of the universe' that seeks to elevate to glorious heroism a simple act of well executed self-preservation.

The fact that you have too often in the past swallowed such 'hollywood' is surely indicated by your frequent use of expressions such as 'chill out'. No doubt your favourite footballers and golfers are also, in your mind, 'heroes'. And I bet you regularly eat at McDonalds, too. <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

slj

11th Feb 2002, 22:46

Interested

If I were a passenger in that plane I would regard Medlanie Oswalt as a hero. I suspect the actual passengers also see her as a hero.

interested

11th Feb 2002, 22:52

slj, good for you. And you've posted that opinion for the world to see. Well done. I can't wait to read the NTSB report on this one! Hahaha. :)

niknak

11th Feb 2002, 23:00

Well done that Lady! <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> . .Do you think any of the airlines will be queuing up to give her a %100 airline sponsership towards the atpl?. .Oh yes - best wishes for a swift recovery to the incapacitated pilot, regradless of his background.

Capt PPRuNe

11th Feb 2002, 23:26

interested, you are not a professional pilot. I don't care whether you have 10,000 hours, you have not gone through the hoops the rest of us professional pilots have. Your views, whilst allowed here, are not really relevant once you ceded the moral high ground by taking away some of the thunder of what most of us regard as a 'heroic' act by someone who is not even qualified as a pilot yet never mind the fact that Melanie Oswalt only had 50 hours of instruction in a light single.

You have a persistent habit of nitpicking away at certain threads on PPRuNe and to be perfectly honest you are becoming as irritating as The Guvnor who whilst possibly lurking is not welcome on here anymore. You have made your point and yet you continue to nit-pick away at anyone who commends Melanie Oswalt as being a heroine.

I really don't care how much fast jet time you have. If you were put in a situation with only 50 hours of basic instruction in a light single and had to take over a C421, at night I would put the odds as highly against you recovering to an airport where you walked away from the aircraft. You 'assume' you would have been able to do so after 50 hours but you will never know will you? At least Melanie Oswalt has that knowledge and experience.

So 'interested', give it a rest. You've made your point but by persisting with your pedantic criticism of anyone who feels that Melanie Oswalt deserves tha accolade of a 'heroine' you only make yourself appear to be frustrated that it wasn't you who happened to be in that C421 at the time.. . <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

tiger burn

11th Feb 2002, 23:48

Captain PPRuNe - I'm sure the majority participating in this thread will join me in thanking you for that response. Interested - why waste your life as a cynic?

May I say that girl's got b*lls? Perhaps a little larger than some of our male contributors!

interested

11th Feb 2002, 23:49

Well Captain, at the risk of your immediately, and arbitrarily, banning me from this site (as you have so frequently done to others), I will simply say that I am NOT ‘The Guvnor’, that you have absolutely no knowledge of what ‘hoops’ I have had to jump through, and that the simple fact that I do not earn a living as a pilot does not mean I am not a professional pilot in at least one very important sense.

The remainder of the points you make are childish and utterly unworthy of my reply. Now off you go and remove all my posts and ban me forever from playing with your train set. In answer to your recent question as put to me on the PPRuNe/Astraeus thread when I suggested you might ban me, a ‘benevolent dictator’ you most certainly are not. Just a dictator. :)

flapsforty

11th Feb 2002, 23:51

Check 6, mail sent off, thanx for link.

RatherBeFlying

11th Feb 2002, 23:53

The lady did wonderfully!

Getting dumped in a dark cockpit of a complex piston twin, keeping it out of the drink (JFK jr. had a whole bunch more hours and was flying in his own plane) and then having the smarts to go to a familiar airport and make a survivable landing is quite a feat for somebody coming straight out of a 152, especially if all her experience had been day VFR. Maybe she had done a bit of the instrument and night work which would really come in handy in this situation.

I remember my own comm failure at night where I was tuning the radio and making calls without hearing anybody until the flashlight showed me the on/off switch <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

theRolfe2

12th Feb 2002, 03:15

the simple fact that I do not earn a living as a pilot does not mean I am not a professional pilot in at least one very important sense.

If your real life persona is as obnoxious as your online persona I very much doubt if you could earn a living as a pilot.....

theRolfe

broadreach

12th Feb 2002, 04:01

What an extraordinary thing to happen to this young girl and how fortunate the other passengers - and the pilot - were that she happened to be on board.

And what a feeling of accomplishment, of having come through a test that anyone would dread to face for real. Let's hope it all - including the probably unwanted publicity - helps to strengthen her.

And as for the "heroine/not heroine" what a load of off-track nonsense! By any standard of defining heroism, she passes.

Reckon she's someone you might want to drag to draft to the next Gatbash, even if it means chipping in to pay for the ticket. I'll contribute any day.

solotk

12th Feb 2002, 05:26

Well done Melanie,. .At night,minimal hours, unfamiliar aircraft Pilot possibly dying, and u can sure as hell bet the pax weren't very quiet either, businessmen passengers? I wonder at what point she told them to "Shut the f**k up, i got a plane to land" lol. .I sent my e-mail, it was a job well done. All of us Pilots, be we professional, recreational, or trainees, should hope that we can handle an emergency with this degree of skill. The girl done well, and cape Air should sponsor her, she's already proven , she has the "Right Stuff"

Tony

ComJam

12th Feb 2002, 06:20

Yup have to agree, well done. As a 50 hour student I'd have been terrified, particularly at night in twin!

"Interested" you are mistaken in assuming someone with a "Frozen" ATPL has less than 1500 hours experience I had over 3500hrs at ATPL issue, only lacking night flying, a not un-common situation for "self-improving" ex instructors.

Ignition Override

12th Feb 2002, 08:50

I sent the young lady a message to tell her that I would be glad to one day be the 'non-flying (handling)' pilot for her, on any legs in our planes, and by the way, certainly offer her all of the spokes, versus just the hub legs.

I hope that if she develops the flying bug, she can push herself through a very long tunnel via the very expensive training and terrible initial pay as a civilian flight instructor/regional FO.

Fast Jet Wannabe

12th Feb 2002, 16:25

Interested,

Sorry that I "trouble" you - however, reading through the entire thread, I'm delighted to note that it isn't just me that causes you alarm. It's everyone else too. You see, I don't think there is anyone that could assure the rest of us that after 50 hours on a 152, they could perform well in said situation.

You seem to doubt what I say in my post. I don't know why. Yes, my e-mail address contains the name Cessna, when I'm rated on a Piper. Wow! As it happens, I created the address specifically for when I was away in Scotland, having been sponsored by the RAF through 20 hours of C152 training. All my subsequent training has been in the PA-28. All of which is utterly irrelevant anyway, as the situation does not change a jot.

If the thought of being in Melanie's situation doesn't strike some kind of emotion into you, then I suggest it is YOU that has the problem.

Maybe you need to open up a little?

(Check 6, e-mail sent. Many thanks).

T_richard

12th Feb 2002, 22:37

My thanks to whomever posted Ms Oswalt's address; email left my laptop 10 minutes ago. As a non pilot I have read this thread with great interest, curious to see the reactions of the "pros". The overwhelmong consensus is that she really saved the day for those business men, (the visual of this 20 something girl telling the EVP of paperclips to "shaddup, I have a plane to land" made me chuckle. May I suggest then that "Interested" be boxed out because it would appear that he is lighting everyone up with his rant. I suspect that in similar situations he'd be the one in back screaming like a three month old. Instead of responding to him, email Ms Oswalt with your positive comments. A better use of time don't you think? :-) :-)

Whirlybird

12th Feb 2002, 23:02

interested,

What exactly is your point? So, after 50 hours, you would have been qualified and able to land such an aircraft in such a situation. Well, if that's the case, good for you.

This young woman, however, wasn't qualified to do so. She hadn't had the advantage of having flown anything resembling the type of aircraft she had to take over, suddenly, with no instruction, at night, with pax, in stressful conditions. A pretty steep learning curve, I'd say. Any pilot knows that learning to fly a new type in such conditions would be difficult to say the least. Fast Jet Wannabe probably isn't the only one who'd find it terrifying - just the most honest.

My description of that would be heroism. If you call it something else, OK. Aren't we just arging semantics here?

Or, reading between the lines of your post, are you - just maybe - jealous? :)

aztruck

13th Feb 2002, 07:03

Wow. I just read this thread and I cant believe how well this lady did. 400 series Cessna is a big old lump to chuck around the sky, and BTW I imagine she still had the other guy at the controls. Over his side would be the landing lights and the landing gear lever, which is tucked in tight alongside the throttle quadrant, and would therefore be very difficult to find in a dark cockpit if unfamiliar.. .What a hero.

Ignition Override

13th Feb 2002, 09:01

Even after years of airline flying, with a sick or incapacitated passenger and no information to go on, it would not be a simple decision (at least for me) to choose the perfect airport, depending on aircraft weight, approach speed/landing distance required-requiring almost no flare, WHAM! max braking...high terrain, runway and navaid situations could influence the outcome. Or, whether to just land at the nearest airport; is an emergency clinic/hospital nearby...does anyone else onboard have his/her medication...blood pressure/breathing ok?.

The fact that the young brand-new pilot got the very different plane quickly on the ground while controlling something faster with more (and two of them) engine control levers, was quite a feat.

Not to mention all of this right after regaining control of an airplane, reportedly at a very low altitude.

It was enough for me to figure intercept angles/altitudes/energy levels on "Microsoft, Combat Flight Simulator 2, WW2 Pacific Theater".

BrianG

13th Feb 2002, 09:10

I agree with tiger burn - Capt's post is spot on. Melanie did a great job. I only have about 50 hours and whilst it might seem like a cool idea to do what Melanie did, in reality I think most pilots, if they are honest, would not like to face the unenviable position Melanie found herself in with only 50 hrs of experience.

SupremeSpod

13th Feb 2002, 14:55

Melanie, Outstanding job!

As they say, "Any landing you can walk away from is a GOOD landing!".

Check 6

13th Feb 2002, 16:22

I am reposting this suggestion because this thread is getting long.

For those who said thanks for the link, I say thank you for taking the time to e-mail Melanie.

For those participants of this forum who would like to send Ms. Melanie Oswalt a congratulatory e-mail, send to: [email protected] . .I did and bet she would greatly appreciate some more "positive" e-mails, i.e. credit where credit is certainly due.

:) :) :)

[ 13 February 2002: Message edited by: Capt PPRuNe ]

[ 13 February 2002: Message edited by: Check 6 ]

spinproof

14th Feb 2002, 04:36

...hey there are landings and there are arrivals!!!! Both, except for new props, a little bondo and paint,accomplish the same ! <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="tongue.gif" border="0"> ...I think she should be commended for an inovative short field landing !. . <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

GlueBall

14th Feb 2002, 18:53

It was just as well to have the gear up, so as to come to a proper stop. At night on such a short pavement! <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

polzin

14th Feb 2002, 20:48

Right on glueball..

Loved steepclimb post on P1. ,probably would have put gear down landed too fast and killed everone.!!!!!!!!

Final 3 Greens

14th Feb 2002, 22:51

I've flown around the Cape and airports like P-Town and Chatham are delightful by day and in good viz.

At night (and the Cape is prone to mist/fog), in a high performance complex twin (which is nowhere near as forgiving as a 172 (which is what Melanie will have been likely to have flown at Chatham), then thats a whole new ball game.

She did very well. (in my amateur opinion as a few hundred hour PPL) In fact I hope I would be able to do as well and also hope that I never have to try........

LAZYB

14th Feb 2002, 23:03

Capt PPRuNe

Thanks for your response to the unresponsive (un-"interesting"). <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

Job well done to the young pilot.

Fulfill the apparent challenge and "white-out" what's his name. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

spagiola

15th Feb 2002, 01:09

Just one addition to what others have added.

I suppose one could argue that, having taken the controls, the best course of action might have been to simply fly straight and level (having pointed yourself towards dry land, given the location) until you've sorted yourself out. Then you could call for help on the radio, and they could give you vectors to a suitable landing facility and, if needed, instruction on how to deploy the gear etc.

HOWEVER, and I haven't seen anyone point this out in the discussion so far, the other factor in this case was that there was also an incapacitated, possibly quite sick pilot. I would think that one would consider getting him on the ground and to help to be a matter of some urgency, thus arguing against the "take your time and do everything perfectly" approach.

So my hat's off to the lady. May I do half as well, should I ever be in a similar situation (currently 280 hrs, PPL/VFR).

TDK mk2

15th Feb 2002, 03:06

Quick question for Mr Interested: Had you at 50 hours had any experience flying a side by side dual control aircraft from the right hand seat?? I didn't and I would hazard a guess that most other pilots wouldn't have either.

If anyone remembers the first time they flew from the right and how different it felt from the left they would realise that for a fifty hour pilot to land a high performance twin from the right at night knowing that no one else was going to do it can surely be described as 'heroic'.

Are you sure you could have done as well as our heroine Mr Interested? I'm not sure I could have...

G.Khan

15th Feb 2002, 04:45

Can't be to many "authors" with 6000 hours of flying behind them, wonder who this prat is?

Ignition Override

15th Feb 2002, 09:59

Spagiola: I tried to describe in a previous remark some of the factors that can influence one's decision, if the information is available. We can even use a 'flite phone' in the cabin and push the buttons for ' *DOC ', and be connected quickly to the Mayo Clinic, in Rochester, MN.

If anyone has a simple, effective, always reliable method for determining the ideal decision for various medical symptoms (is it really a heart attack? Could the so-called 'drunk' have very high or low blood sugar? Maybe Type 1 diabetes: like my wife), which balances help for the ill passenger or crewmember AND the safety of everyone else onboard, please post it somewhere on Rumours and News.

Even our "Flight Ops Manual", designed by pilots who often have at least 10,000-20,000 hours of turbine transport experience (most of it DC-9, 727 etc thru 747-400 experience), are unable to describe the perfect solution for each medical situation. The first step is normally to ask the FO to 'fly the plane', as with most problems requiring consulatation somewhere. Pardon my paragraphs, I can't "defragment" them and be clear.

[ 15 February 2002: Message edited by: Ignition Override ]

PURPLE PITOT

15th Feb 2002, 13:31

" calling on her extensive training and local knowledge, Melanie elected to land gear up so as to minimise the chances of overrunning what she knew was a short runway."

Nobody thought of that one yet?

Well done girl!

737type

15th Feb 2002, 22:55

Sorry folks, I don't mean to change the direction here but this just made the local Boston press today:

"

Pilot who passed out has diabetes, criminal record

. .By Corey Dade, Globe Staff, 2/15/2002

Cape Air pilot who passed out at the controls of a flight last week has had his license revoked for a second time, and records show he has been convicted of drug trafficking and firearms violations - information the airline said it didn't have when he was hired five years ago.

It was a favorable evaluation from a Federal Aviation Administration doctor that led Cape Air a month ago to restore Ronald N. Crews, 50, to full flying status after he returned from a medical leave of absence, allowing him in the air without a copilot. The airline would not confirm the nature of Crews's ailment, but an industry source familiar with the pilot's medical record said Crews has diabetes. He could not be reached for comment.

The FAA has refused to discuss the ongoing investigation. Meanwhile, Cape Air said it has begun to reexamine the health records of all 100 of its pilots, and is determining whether it will raise its standards for pilots returning to the air.

"