Another Indonesian jet down

[regitaekilthgiwt]

"Australians on board burning Garuda jet

A Garuda Indonesia passenger jet has burst into flames on landing in Yogyakarta on the Indonesian Island of Java.
The Department of Foreign Affairs has confirmed there were Australians on board, including journalists.

It is not known whether they were among the casualties.

There have also been reports of passengers trapped on board the 737 aircraft."

and

“Australians may be on crashed jet

Australians are believed to have been among the 102 passengers on a jet that burst into flames while landing in the central Indonesian city of Yogyakarta.

Initial reports suggested a group of journalists were on board the Garuda flight, GA200.

"The plane is burnt. The fire came suddenly from the front wheel," one witness, Hariman, told ElShinta radio.

There was no immediate mention of casualties, and the number of passengers aboard the jet was not immediately known.

The Detikcom news website said the plane was a jet from the country's flag carrier Garuda Indonesia.

Another passenger who escaped the blaze told ElShinta radio there were still passengers aboard as the fire raged.

Indonesia's flight safety record has come under renewed scrutiny since an Adam Air Boeing 737-400 with 102 people on board crashed into the sea off the island of Sulawesi on New Year's Day with no survivors.”




Good luck to all those involved, hope all are ok. Condolences to the families of those that didn't make it.

The situation of the aviation industry in Indonesia needs a thorough review so future tragedies can be averted.

[Ultralights]

edit, just saw some news footage.. it went in pretty hard, looks like there will be a quite a few fatalities..


My condolences to all..

[Dogimed]

Aussies onboard crashed plane


March 07, 2007 12:29pm
Article from: Font size: + -
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AN Indonesian jet carrying several Australians has crashed and exploded at a central Indonesian airport, trapping passengers inside.

It is believed most Australians on board were diplomatic staff from both Canberra and Jakarta, who were part of a trip following Foreign Minister Alexander Downer on his mission to Indonesia.

The Australian Department of Foreign Affairs has also confirmed Australian journalists were on board. They are seeking more information.

Mr Downer, who was travelling separately, was today expected to visit the central Javanese province for a series of meetings - including one with the Muhammadiyah, the region's largest Muslim organisation, and with the Sultan of Yogjakarta.

Authorities gave no other details but the Antara news service said the fuselage was burning and passengers were trapped inside the plane at the airport in Yogyakarta, located in central Java.

Antara said the flight number was GA-200.

The operations director of Garuda, Captain Ari Sapari, told The Associated Press authorities were trying to rescue passengers onboard the Boeing 737-400.

"It caught alight when it landed," he said giving no more details.

One witness, called Hariman, told local ElShinta radio: "The plane is burnt. The fire came suddenly from the front wheel,"

Indonesia has suffered from a string of transport accidents in recent months, including an Adam Air plane that disappeared in January with 102 passengers and crew on board, and a ferry sinking in late December in which hundreds died.

- more to follow

[Scurvy.D.Dog]

Jakarta Post

http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailtoplatest.asp?fileid=20070307091949&irec=0

Garuda Indonesia jetliner burned after landing failure
JAKARTA (JP): A Garuda Indonesia Boeing 737-400 jetliner, which served Jakarta-Yogyakarta route, was burned Wednesday at 7:14 a.m. after making a hard landing in Adi Sucipto Airport, Yogyakarta.
Metro TV station quoted Minister of Transportation that 76 passengers had been evacuated, but it was not clear yet whether there were alive or dead. They were admitted to Harjo Lukito Hospital, Yogyakarta.
The fate of the remaining 57 passengers was unknown, the TV station said.
A survivor Haryana said the airplane looked in normal condition when taking off from Jakarta and landing in Yogyakarta. The weather was also good, he added
”The airplane indeed made a landing although it was not a smooth one. Then, the jetliner could not just stop and hit the airport gate before finally burned,” the survivor said.
Ari Safari, Garuda Indonesia operational director, said he could not conclude anything yet from the incident as investigation was still underway.
He said the jetliner age was between eight and 10 years old. (***)
.
:(

[Ultralights]

Ch 7 in syd just showed incredible footage taken from a journo on board, people still falling out of breaks in the fuse, and exits, plenty of walking wounded staggering around the rice paddy, scary stuff...

interesting to note there is a increasing number of witness reports saying the aircraft was hit by 3 big bangs and shuddered violently just before touchdown, and others saying the aircraft was shot at!!!

just hope the investigation finds the truth...

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

From the Vision so far,

I have not been able to make out the cockpit...the forward fuselage seems to be 'missing' from a few windows in front of the forward door.

Anyone know if the crew made it out of there?

[Chocks Away]

Nose wheel was reported by airport service (?) to be on fire/alight on landing...

[Ultralights]

in the footage i have seen, someone can be seen climbing from the nose area of the aircraft where the cockpit should be, i just hope it was a crew member..

[Pass-A-Frozo]

Rather strange mix of people trying to draw a parallel to the QF sale, asian cleanliness, asian maintainence etc . Rather poor timing one would think
New.Com.AU Story comments from public (http://www.news.com.au/comments/0,23600,21340164-2,00.html)

[MinimaNoContact]

What bugs me is the footage I saw from the Ch7 cameraman who was "BRAVE" enough to capture the images immediately after the crash... What a crock. He was onboard and managed to evacuate the aircraft safely BUT... what do the Cabin Crew always tell the pax in the event of an emergency?!? Leave ALL baggage behind.
The size of these cameras that the media carry around with them are big to say the least. How many people did this fool get in the way of while rustling around trying to get his camera from the overhead locker... ? :D Idiot.
/Rant over.

[Ultralights]

being a modern journo, it might have been a mini digicam, just like my one, its about the size of my wallet..

[MinimaNoContact]

Good point, I guess we just get used to seeing the images on the news of the shoulder-cams that look a good 20kg...

[tail wheel]

Sky News:

Five Aussies believed injured and identified.

Four Aussies, possibly five "unaccounted for". Suggestion is no confirmation until deceased are identified.

Downer's Government aircraft may be used for medi-vac to Australia later tonight.

Sad indeed!

DFAT Information Hotline 1800 002 214

[ScottyDoo]

What bugs me is the footage I saw from the Ch7 cameraman who was "BRAVE" enough to capture the images immediately after the crash... What a crock. He was onboard and managed to evacuate the aircraft safely BUT....

As a journo, his only priority appears to have been to gets some quality footage of the tragedy.

Well I wasn't there and I don't know what it was like but journos in general never cease to amaze me. Anyone else might have put in an effort, however feeble, to try and help some fellow victims.

Good on him for surviving, where others didn't AND getting his precious footage.

RIP the others.

[Barry Bernoulli]

I have to agree regards the sentiments about the cameraman being in a position to shoot footage. As a journo who would be a frequent flyer, the safety briefing would be familiar to that person whether it was delivered in English or any other language; specifically that all personal items would have been stowed for landing, either in the overhead locker or under the seat in front, and that if an evacuation was required, all personal items should be left behind be it a pocket sized handycam or a larger item.

Trying to evacuate 130-odd persons out of a burning jet with several exits unavailable and smoke in the cabin would not be made any easier by anyone trying to retrieve personal items. The cameraman concerned may have found themselves in possession of their camera by any number of legitimate circumstances. I just hope that they can reconcile with themselves that they did not, by their actions, cause any delay to the evacuation, or fail to provide assistance to the evacuation, that could have resulted in the loss of life or additional injury.

Personally, I could have lived without seeing the footage.

[J430]

Barry

he is a journo:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

enough said

Back to regular programming.

J:ok:

[Bon Giorno]

Barry
he is a journo
enough said
Back to regular programming.
J
Yes he was J430 - On the other hand I trust that you, Barry Bernouilli and Scotty Doo can at least take some small comfort from the fact that at least one of your much despised inky-fingered wretches was apparently incinerated in the accident.

And another well respected (female) journo has burns to 60% of her body.

That'll teach her to be a journo eh fellahs?
:mad:

Bon Giorno

[ScottyDoo]

Emotional statements regarding the dead, by Bon Journo, but still somewhat ignorant. As they say, 'nobody deserves to die.' Nobody.

But to lever yourself out of the wreck whilst taking the time to grab your camera and then run to safety, possibly abandoning your colleague???

And then stand around filming the carnage instead of lifting a finger to assist someone, anyone, any way you can??? This is just plain wrong and you don't need me to say it.

Not everyone is a hero; there are people who help and people who don't. And then there are journos.

Life is everything. Some footage that will be on the telly for the next 24hrs, then forgotten is NOTHING.


May the dead, all of them, RIP.

[pakeha-boy]

ScottyDoo.........ditto on your comments,and I think you will find most here would agree with your sentiment(s).......and as others have said...you have to wonder the integrity of individuals in these type of situations

.....getting past that,the footage has been taken(regardless of ones view)...so lets hope it is not used as "entertainment"(for lack of a better word)...but can hopefully used to shed some light on this tradgedy.......seasoned accident investigators from Boeing and others may be able to garnish valuable(visual) info....

still,as the Mod says...it certainly is a very sad day...PB

[Uncle Aunty]

ScottyDoo, I would have thought footage like his would be very important in the post-crash investigation.
And unless you have some special first-hand knowledge from having been a passenger on board, you might want to watch yourself with suggestions like:
...to lever yourself out of the wreck whilst taking the time to grab your camera and then run to safety, possibly abandoning your colleague???
The cameraman's contribution will be his footage. It could help work out what caused this tragedy. And that's the least we owe those who've perished in this disaster.
Those who survived (including the cameraman) will have to live with the consequences of what they did and didn't do for many days yet.

[ScottyDoo]

Yes, the journo's footage may be seen as his contribution but if it was at the expense of even a single life, especially that of his colleague, then I simcerely wish him luck sleeping at night, no matter how hardened and desensitised he might be.

I know it's cynical but somehow I doubt crash-investigation was the first thought in his mind when filming.

We've seen that kind of thing before and it gets under my skin.

I really don't want to detract from the main purpose of the thread; sorry for the drift.

[DomeAir]

Firstly, condolences to all affected.

Lets hope that after this latest landing accident that the authorities start to realise that aircraft age is not necessarily their biggest concern...it makes no difference if you have a 1 year old or 20 year old airframe - it's how the aircraft is operated (and maintained).

I'm making no assertions about the latter points, suffice to say that I think the focus on age is a convenient excuse for more fundamental issues...

[ScottyDoo]

Fully agreed.

[F/O Bloggs]

Uncle Aunty,

You don't work for the ABC by any chance do you?

So you are trying to tell me that the journo filming was doing it in order to help the crash investigation. Ha right.

Aircraft have Flight data recorders and Cockpit voice recorders. I think the crash investigators will get more out of that those don't you?

I fully agree with scotty doo's sentiments.

[ScottyDoo]

Thanks Bloggs...

But this is bothering me. If anyone cares, a mate of mine went through similar burns to the journo who survived (and lived) and also a mate's kid recently was burned to death in an accident. Both cases were unthinkably nasty.

In no way, whatsoever, do I aim to trivialise what happened to her or wish it upon anyone in the world and I really hope she's going to pull through. She and the other survivors.

[pakeha-boy]

F/O Blogs.....your right mate!!! FDR,s and Cockpit voice recorders are no doubt an accident investigator,s tools of the trade(if the A/C is so equiped),...many A/C do not have these Devices....I have flown 727,s,on contract(South America) where the operater has removed said devices....as they were not required.....(dont ask me why,I was in it for the $$$$$$$$$$)

To think this jorno,s objective was to film for accident investigation is a little way out there for sure......but the recording was made and it use(s) will probably be garnished as evidence....

You may or may not be aware,but the FAA and others have been pushing for years to get video recorders in the cockpit,in addition to the FDR and cockpit voice recorder....and it has been debated before on this forum.....

any and all evidence will be critical for those responsible in handling this tradgedy...........PB

[*Lancer*]

The speculation you are all making in regard to the actions or lack thereof of the journo who filmed the aftermath, as low and inappropriate as the behaviour you accuse him of. For a start, he is probably not such an 'expert' in the use of recording devices in accident investigation.

People bahave differently when faced with emotional trauma. You can't expect every traumatised passenger to leave their belongings, and keep their wits. Nor can you expect every traumatised passenger to drag as many bodies as they can from a burning wreckage and commence first aid.

How about we leave the therapy and counceling to those trained in critical incident response?

[J430]

That'll teach her to be a journo eh fellahs?


Bon Giorno

I have personal opinions about those who over-sensationalise and misreport the truth, all in the name of getting a scoop story. You could say "tarred with the one brush", that however is in no way to be connected with the kind of comment above by our friend Bon Giorno. That in itself is extremely bad form:=

I think the point is, most of us revert to what we know, in this case being a journo, seizing the opportunity to make a name for oneself by scooping the pool on a great bit of journalism. Well that it might be, but for what price.

I recall a nasty accident at Calder Park some years ago when a young Craig Lowndes got tangled up with a few at the start of a race, massive spectacular rolls etc ......the rest of the field came to a screaming halt and ran to his aid, not one pointed their car with cameras aboard at the scene! Kind of different scenario, but I am sure you get what I mean.

RIP those who did not make it out.

J

[cunninglinguist]

One Question:
How is film of a burning wreckage from 100 odd metres away, going to help determine the cause of the accident :confused:
Clearly the film was taken well after the A/C had come to a stop.

[Whiskey Oscar Golf]

Firstly condolences to families and friends of the missing. It is a tragic situation and while ch 7 seems to be speculating on "possible sabotage" I think the answer will be more mundane but no less sad.


As to the Cameraman/Journo while not defending their actions in any way, I was wondering if we all saw the footage? Thats the problem, it's a bit hard to flick over and they know we'll watch it. The real dog act was with the Journo who went to the injured womans mums house to ask her questions while her daughter is severely injured far far away. Her stressed response to the questions was a simple " do you have children? " So he kept asking her questions. The old adage of you get the media you deserve just doesn't feel right these days, either that or I'm well out of touch.

[capt.cynical]

Everyone in Indonesia has an airline story
Date: Thursday, 8 March 2007
A frequently flying Jakarta-based expat writes:
Almost everyone who has lived in Indonesia has an airline story. A good one relates to a Garuda flight to Balikpapan. After the plane took off and leveled out the Captain came and started to meet and greet the business class passengers. He was swanning around like Captain Stubing of Love Boat fame. After five mins the co-pilot left the cockpit to find the captain, waiting patiently for an opportune moment to break in and ask his assistance.


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After a few quick words they both turn around to go back to the cockpit to do whatever it was that needed to be done. To the dismay of the passengers the pilots realise that the door to the cockpit had closed, and could only be opened from the inside. Locked out of the cockpit, and in front of the now incredulous passengers, they had to use a fire ax to force the lock and re-take control of the plane.


Funny story, but sadly probably not an urban myth. Certainly believable and not the worst thing to have happened on an Indonesian airline. There will no doubt be lots of newspapers publishing air disaster statistics, but they will not cover the near misses and the shambolic state of the air industry as a whole. I wrote over a year ago a scathing riposte on QANTAS’s overtures to get into the Indonesian aviation industry. I’m sure now they are glad they stepped back.


Adam Air should have been grounded a year ago, except a part owner is speaker of the House of Representatives. Aside from a series of mishaps (mostly covered up) there was the seminal moment when their plane flying to Makassar landed in Sumbawa. Not unlike flying Sydney to Brisbane but ending up on Norfolk island. The pilots were unaware they had landed in the wrong place. No worries though – they took off without clearance and flew back up to their scheduled destination.

Adam Air has only been grounded in the last couple of weeks after another of their planes had a crash landing at the same airport as the Garuda disaster. Another recent Adam Air disaster (killing all 103 passengers) was blamed on the plane's age. It has nothing to do with aging aircraft and everything to do with gross incompetence and corruption.


How bad is the corruption and incompetence in the airlines? Take a theoretical flight from Makassar to Jakarta. When you walk through security the metal detector does not detect anything. A flawed and corrupt procurement system has resulted in defective and un-maintained security equipment. Next, the X-ray of the bags would not be watched. Even if it was watched, the operator is not trained and does not know what to look for. That’s because he, and his colleagues bought their positions and are more interested in scams to make enough money to pay back the loan that got them the job.

When you go to the check in counter you can expect the operator will list you in the computer under a "T" code and not "P" code. This means you are listed as a Transit passenger and the airport tax you just paid at the desk can be pocketed as the system only reconciles tax collected against "P" (passenger) coded individual. Too bad if your plane crashes as there will not be an accurate manifest of passengers on board. This exact scenario happened with the Adam Air flight that crashed. It will be interesting to see if Garuda can produce an accurate manifest.


When you board the plane – keep an eye on the refueling. 18 months ago a local airline accused Pertamina employees of adulterating the fuel and selling the excess. The only problem was they were mixing it down with water. Literally watering down the fuel. This scam was discovered after the airline's maintenance crew, when they opened the tanks, found they had to drain out an excess of condensed water. After complaining the airline was reprimanded for causing trouble and the whole fiasco was swept under the carpet.


As you go up the stairs of your plane, keep an eye on the uncertified maintenance engineers who can’t read the English language manuals.


Once flying take note: the hostesses are not properly trained. I have heard two different first-hand eyewitness accounts on two different crash landings on two different airlines where the hostesses panicked and jumped out of the plane themselves leaving the passengers behind to fend for themselves. There is a story (myth?) of a crash many years ago. The only fatality was a hostess who panicked whilst the plane was doing an emergency landing, popped the door and jumped for her life. She died while everyone else remained seated and survived.


Landing in Jakarta, if you come through the international section – you might see some individuals inside the secure area greeting passengers as they come off the plane. For a mere $30 you can access the secure area beyond the immigration desk without any security check. Even better, the $30 buys you the right to skip the normal queue of people and present your passport at the queue reserved for diplomats. You can pick up your bags and be ushered out the airport without presenting your luggage at customs.


Once outside you have a choice of dodgy taxis who have paid a kick back to have the monopoly rights of their taxis at the airport. They make up the cost by ripping off passengers. Alternatively if you are in a hurry, and you have some serious money you can pay for a police escort to ease your way through the congested traffic into town.


If you are unlucky and happened to be an Indonesian returning home from working as a domestic helper overseas, you get to go through an especially notorious terminal where officials prey on, extort and steal the hard currency earnings of these pitiful folk.

:ugh: :eek:

[Nepotisim]

When you board the plane – keep an eye on the refueling. 18 months ago a local airline accused Pertamina employees of adulterating the fuel and selling the excess. The only problem was they were mixing it down with water. Literally watering down the fuel. This scam was discovered after the airline's maintenance crew, when they opened the tanks, found they had to drain out an excess of condensed water. After complaining the airline was reprimanded for causing trouble and the whole fiasco was swept under the carpet.
That has to be the biggest load of .... I have read in a long time.
You cannot "water down" fuel with water. All avtur aircraft fuel tanks will have small amounts of water within.:ugh:

[Midflight_Wonder]

Scotty Doo:

My understanding is the 7 cameraman had broken both his legs in the crash and managed to drag himself clear of the plane before hitting record.

Still think he should have gone back in to try and rescue others in the plane?

[DickyPearse]

My understanding is the 7 cameraman had broken both his legs in the crash

I believe it was one leg but don't let that stop a good story...

The camera was small and probably close to hand at the time of the crash so lets leave the cameraman and move on to the next cheap target....

At last report, 6 of 7 crew survived.....given the overall casualties and their responsibilities, is this a high survival rate or is there something more sinister to it..... :}

[pakeha-boy]

Cunning....you are right mate...100 metres away.....what might you ask could anyone see???.....the fact is...this might not be the only footage that was shot.....joe blow...sitting in the living room ,may have had a camera...and seen the whole approach.....and nothing to do with the jorno sagarso......

come on guys...as ****ty as it sounds,and as terrible as this situation is....lets get past the "hollywood" and concentrate on the real situation...the news reports indicate a very fast app and landing..we have seen this before(SW Airlines) and they were lucky,if thats what you want to call it.....the fatalities were low.....

when this thing all shakes out....and it will....none of us wll be too surprised...why...because its been done before.....its just a bloody shame its keeps being repeated.....ILL bite my tounge :mad: PB

Cunniglinguist....need to have a chinwaggle wiff you...have some interesting info of a secret nature....007 stuff...PB

[mingalababya]

Adam Air has only been grounded in the last couple of weeks after another of their planes had a crash landing at the same airport as the Garuda disaster.
The Adam Air heavy landing incident happened at Juanda, Surabaya; not Jogja. Having lived in Indonesia before, I'm not surprised by the some of the points made in that Crickey.com article, however. :ooh:

[vh_ajm]

Rightly or wrongly, it is usual for Jounros to cover a story as if they are not there. Whether its earthquakes, wars, or cats up a tree, the idea, I beleive, is to sit back and watch and report on how things unfold. Most people have already made up their mind if they agree with this way of thinking or not and thats their opinion. Again rightly or wrongly, I don't doubt that the journo would have had his butt kicked if the boss knew he/she were on board and didn't get something news-worthy out of it.

A similar occurence springs to mind when an Ethiopian Airlines plane was highjacked and crashed into the sea - a cameraman (I don't know if it was a professional or not) remained on the beach taking pictures while others swam out to help survivors.

Personally I found the footage interesting in looking at the passengers' reaction to the crisis. Who was helping others? Who was helping themself? Who was helpless? While no technical information as the cause of the crash may be gained from the footage, perhaps an analysis of the success of the evacuation as well as how the actions of passengers can affect the survivability of the crash. I haven't looked that closely mind you, don't know if that sort of thing is covered.

[HotDog]

If the reporter had not broken his leg, in most probability the footage would not have been shot. He would have run away from the blazing wreck as far as he could, just like everybody else that was able to do it.

[Tarq57]

At last report, 6 of 7 crew survived.....given the overall casualties and their responsibilities, is this a high survival rate or is there something more sinister to it.....

Don't know, but it doesn't seem sinister to me. The crew usually sit in seats with full harness, some of them aft-facing.
AFAIK cabin crew are, as part of their training, instructed that if their lives are in peril they are to get out. They are not (and should not be) expected to stay in a risky situation even to save others. That some of them do in this sort of event is utterly heroic, I think.
I'm fortunate to have never been in something like this. Don't know how I'd react. And I think, neither does anyone else. I'd like to think I'd be on to it, helpful, cool calm collected etc, but the truth is that until you experience it, you don't know. Reactions can vary from the truly heroic to the frozen in shock, and everything in between.
And any of these reactions are normal, in a shocking situation. In a former life, I was in the Fire Brigade, and have seen a fairly wide range of reactions to shock, even in trained professionals, and in myself. It's all normal, like it or not. (Apparently) admirable or not.
Let's put the armchair judgements aside.

[bushy]

You are right. Let those at the site, who know what they are doing do there work, and make factual reports. Wild speculation is not helpful.

[SkySista]

As for the crew...

What was the saying?

"When the water's too deep, the smoke too thick, the fire too hot..."

Yes, cabin crew are trained to save lives. But they are also trained that when they feel they are in grave peril, to get out, as said above. That moment is different for each crew member, hence one may exit before another (and neither would be wrong)

HotDog, well said :D

[amos2]

What nonsence!!...

if you are trained to do a job, you do the job!

You don't sod off and wimp out to look after #1!

And then try and justify it!

Unless, of course, you're nothing but a ....!

[AerocatS2A]

And if the job involves getting out when you can?

A live crew member outside the aircraft is a lot more useful in the aftermath than a dead one inside.

[amos2]

So, what's this job that involves looking after #1 first? Especially when you are employed for safety and emergency duties?

[AerocatS2A]

At some point you will do more good outside helping people who are alive than inside joining those who are dead. When that point occurs, is a judgement call that you are not qualified to make unless you are there at the time.

[404 Titan]

amos2

Ah yes but you’re not employed to sacrifice your life to save someone who can’t be saved. When you jump into the fire and sacrifice your life for someone else then your words may carry some weight. Until then you are only making yourself look stupid.