Going to Massey's in NZ. Hopefully will join up with a local SG carrier. One problem.

[Effee]

As topic says, I am a 20 year old Singaporean currently serving my national service. I end at the end of the year. My plan so far is to apply to Massey's, finish my degree in aviation and hopefully get a spot as a 2nd Off in SIA or Cathay.

Only one problem, I wear glasses, my degree is around 200 each in both eyes. LASIK is certainly an option I've considered, but I am not too keen as it is not 100% guaranteed you'll have perfect eyesight and you might even land up worse off than you were.

So my question is, what are my chances getting in with glasses? Will they give preference to candidates who have perfect 6/6 eyesight over me?

[er1cw]

Have you consider SFC ? They do accept private candidates now. Visited their office at Seletar, the staffs are quite friendly, shake some hands and was told they are 4 blokes flying with them privately.

Oh, not forget to mention it cost about the same as Massey.

[dream747]

I'm serving NS as well now and I thought of going down the route you're going to take as well. After so much research and advice given by everyone here I just thought I should pass this on as well. It's not possible to enter the airline industry fresh out of Massey with just only 200 hours time. Many airlines if not are are looking at jet experience and at least 1000 hours total flying time.

And it seems that SIA doesn't give preference to those with a license, even a CAAS one. They'll select you based on their own criteria. Only if you pass the interviews and everything like the others do then you'll get to go straight to the learjet.

Just some food for thought!

[Effee]

Not SFC. I want a degree as well. Massey will let me get that.
Yes I know it is not possible to enter SIA direct. I will be trying on my own merit to get into their cadetship. Last resort would be to work as an instructor, or go crop dust overseas :)

Anyway, my question is still left unanswered, what about glasses?

[Luke SkyToddler]

Why the hell would anyone want to choose Massey, they are the worst flying school in New Zealand if not the entire world. The B. Av degree is about as well respected in the real world of commercial aviation as the Mcdonalds Hamburger University.

With regard to eyesight, how much is 200 degrees in old school terminology (i.e. -2, -3 etc?) I had PRK in my eyes before I took up flying and it worked out perfectly, well it got me onto an airbus anyway :)

[turbolager]

Why the hell would anyone want to choose Massey, they are the worst flying school in New Zealand if not the entire world. The B. Av degree is about as well respected in the real world of commercial aviation as the Mcdonalds Hamburger University.
Rubbish. Do you really believe the parochial NZ GA scene is the "real world of commercial aviation"? I think Singapore Airlines would disagree with you, as would CAAS. Maybe you should pass a word of warning to all the airline crew studying there by correspondence too.

Massey certainly has it's disadvantages, but it has a lot of plusses too, especially for Singaporeans and other foreign nationals. Most of the downsides only apply to NZ GA - so if Effee's career goals don't include trying to get a start in NZ GA, its a great option to consider. Most of the foreign students couldn't give a toss if the Waikikamookau Aeroclub won't touch Massey C cats.

For the Singaporean students, Massey University has a licence conversion agreement with CAAS, which makes getting a Singapore CPL way easier than training at any other NZ flight school.

So Effee, if you're aiming at SIA, and if you're going to train in NZ, Massey University is probably your best option. Just ask for advice from all the other Massey graduates flying for SIA, and ignore the likes of Skytoddler. Some of his comments may well apply to a kiwi looking for a start in GA, but outside of his version of "real world commercial aviation" its a good way to go :ok:

[Luke SkyToddler]

I'm glad it worked out for you turbolager mate, and thanks for advising me to travel and fly a bit more before making global generalisations I'll take your timely advice under consideration.

Since the dude by his own admission knows he can't get into SIA with minimum hours, and knows he might have to work as an instructor, or go crop dust overseas then I thought he might in fact appreciate being presented with an alternate point of view than the big glossy Massey sales pitch tends to provide.

Effee mate, no disrespect but the fact that you are even talking about crop dusting, or second officer at Cathay (!!), as a viable option for a fresh flying school graduate, indicates someone who doesn't really understand the realities of the global situation for 200 hour CPLs. It's very very tough out there.

Agricultural flying is probably even harder to get into than SIA or Cathay are, believe it or not. And unless you get onto one of their cadet schemes, you won't get a Cathay or Singapore interview without several years commercial flying experience on turboprops or small jets. I freely admit I don't know the first thing about the SIA cadet scheme, but I thought the point of cadet schemes in general is that you don't pay for your CPL/IR, the airline does?!

The problem with Massey - the fact that myself and turbolager both alluded to - is that there is a well defined prejudice against graduates of that particular school, amongst certain employers of low time pilots in the New Zealand and Australian scene. A lot of allegations have been made about the quality of the Massey product. If you use the search function on here you can find them all for yourself.

Whether any of the statements are true or not I won't comment, but the plain facts are that most other flying schools in NZ can sort you out with a CPL/IR in about 12 months and $NZ50,000. Massey takes minimum 3 years and costs well over $NZ100,000. Anyone who is considering going there, would be crazy not to ask some very very hard questions about what they are getting that justifies the extra time and expense.

It doesn't take an extra two years and an extra $50,000 to convert a NZ CPL/IR into a Singapore one either when the time comes, so that thing with the B Av and the CAAS just might not be all it appears to be :hmm:

Of course, if you just know that you're on that gold plated highway to that SIA 777 straight out of flying school, because that's what it said in the Massey sales brochure, and if you don't think there's even a chance in a million that you might end up having to do some time on a smaller aircraft first, and if you don't actually care at all what other first-job type of employers think of Massey, then by all means take turbolager's advice and ignore everything I just said :ok:

I don't intend to get into a 'mines bigger than yours' contest but suffice to say I am an airline pilot in Europe with a bit over a decade of experience in the left and right seat, who's also ex Massey instructing staff.

I do agree with turbolager on one thing though - don't only take the advice of me, or him, or any other random person on the internet when it comes to making such a big decision. Do not trust or believe a word that comes out of the marketing department of ANY flying school, whether it's Massey or some hillbilly aero club ar anything in between. If your plan is to fly for SIA then talk to as many SIA pilots as you can possibly find.

[turbolager]

missed ya reply there Skytoddler, too late I edited :-)
Agree with most of what you say.

I wouldn't for a moment suggest Effee believe any flight school's marketing machine, simply pointing out that for many Singaporean's, its a good way into their national airline. Massey are a bit slicker than some, mostly just because they're bigger, but you'll get a similar line of B.S from any commercial flight school. Which you'll find out when you speak to them all researching your investment!

Surely something has gone horribly wrong if it costs $100k. How much do they charge? Luke probably knows more about that. If thats correct then go to Whakatipu Aeroclub instead, cheaper and you'll have more fun :}

[Thermal Image]

LST is being polite.

I shall summarise: you're dreaming if you think you can get into SQ via Massey. Yes, dreams do come true. Yes, there are a few Massey boys in SQ. And there are a few Massey boys not flying, driving taxis, whatever.

The 200 degrees is not a problem with CAAS. If eyesight is an issue, it is an issue with CAAS not the airline.

A few questions you should ask yourself :
1. How old will be be when you are done with Massey?
2. How old MUST you be before you can join SQ / Silkair / SinCargo?
3. What will you do if there is a gap?
4. What are the time limits to remain current before your CPL lapses?
5. Will Massey give you the whole contact list of Singaporeans who have done the B Av programme? If not, why not? Should you not contact as many of them as possible to see how long they took to land a job, whether SQ or anywhere else? What percentage of them are in an airline job and after trying how long? Will the graduands meet you face-to-face or remain some ghost on a forum?

[NoBrain]

Thermal Image,

I thought eyesight is a big issue with SIA as they have thier own requirements and are more stringent than CAAS?

[Thermal Image]

I thought eyesight is a big issue with SIA
No
as they have thier own requirements
No
and are more stringent than CAAS?
No

[Out there]

Hi Effee
My advise is to call CAAS and ask them what schools they accept hours from when it come to applying for your CPL CAAS licence. From memory their are only two of which massey is one. Just remember that some users in here have a pretty wrap version of the facts.

[mach2.5]

HEY mate (the guy wants to go massey)

i had exatly the same thoughts as you when i sarted, but after the the 2 years of my "university life", spent $140,000 of my parents money, and realise massey wont give me a full time contract, or give anyone a full time contract...i left them and flew with an other flight school, ended up with a full time job, and reasonablely amount of hours.

at the moment i can still finish the degree, but i dont think i am going to finish it, until i get into an airline.

i know people had 200hr massey degree went to both SIA and cathay interviews....when they see your forzen ATPL, you will not be qualified for cadets. so they put you into the direct entry pool. compete with people have 3000 hr TT, 1500 turbine PIC, therefore you dont have a chance at all, even you have the smartest mouth and best c..ok sucking technique...

oh by the way, the degree....(the piece of paper)...." is this real?" that was literally what they asked my friend, so i assume all the assignments and late night studies of your bull sh..t aviation management meant nothing...nothing at all mate.

[Effee]

Thanks to all that replied, I've been following numerous flight forums which said that you should not take up aviation as a degree. It would be better to take up another non aviation related degree and do flying on the sidelines. That way you have a back up in case you do not get into aviation. I guess I was hoping the B.Av degree would give me extra leverage in the interview.

So, if I decide not to go to Massey, and instead take non related degree elsewhere in NZ, while doing flying, would my NZ licence still be recognised by CAAS?

Am I right to say that having a degree in Aviation with 200hrs and frozen ATPL would matter no less to an airline than a degree in XXX with 200hrs and a ATPL taken from another flight school.

I understand flying is a unstable career option, I am not kidding myself, I might never find myself in the seat of a 777. I might never even get into the cockpit and instead be working as baggage handler, however, I can't help feeling that I at least must give it a try before I give up my ambition. I would be 25-26 when I finish Massey (if I go there) just the right age for SIA.

Also, I would appreciate any alternate routes to go education wise.

To Skytoddler, would you mind sharing which route you took to land you up flying? Did you school at Massey?:D

Thank you all :)

[SmileAirlines]

To set things straight... it is NOT true that if you have frozen ATPL from Massey (or any other institution), SIA won't accept you as cadet. I know 2 ex-cadets who are Massey graduates and they went through the whole cadetship process minus the Jandakot phase. Bare in mind that CAAS (not SIA) only recognizes CPL ME/IR from Massey, not frozen ATPL, hence cadets who are Massey graduates have to go through the ATPL ground school phase in Seletar for the first 6 months together with other SIA cadets, and then on they can go straight to Learjet phase in Maroochydore.

The only frozen ATPL that CAAS recognizes is the one from MFA. If a SIA cadet has frozen ATPL from MFA, he/she will go straight to Learjet phase, by-passing the Seletar and Jandakot phase.

To answer Effee question: CAAS don't recognize any other flying school in NZ except for Massey. However, most if not all SIA cadets with non-Singapore CPL ME/IR will get 40 hours exemption towards the required 200 hours of training, which equates in roughly 2-3 months of training time in Jandakot.

[er1cw]

SmilesAirline,

Since CAAS does recognize fATPL form MFA, will they recognize fATPL from HM aerospace and APLT as well?

[Thermal Image]

All you wannabes do yourself a favour and look here (it's on the same forum and you can't even be bothered to look it up?):

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=213914&page=10

The URL to whom CAAS recognises is found there. And forget about logic like "since CAAS recognises MFA therefore...."

Don't try to be smarter than the all powerful CAAS.

[SmileAirlines]

Thermal image was right.. Logic seems to be missing from CAAS' dictionary.. I tried once to get my hours recognized and failed, although some of my mates with exactly the same qualification from the same country as mine (even the same flying school..) and their hours was recognized...

[Effee]

So regarding to my previous post. Can anyone give me suggestions on a better route to take?

[er1cw]

Have you try SIA ?

[Thermal Image]

So regarding to my previous post. Can anyone give me suggestions on a better route to take?

Why does this sound so much like: "I'm here. So why doesn't anyone advise me already?

[Effee]

I meant nothing of that sort, just would like to see some good suggestions like LST gave me.

[Thermal Image]

The issues you raise have been discussed to death on PPRuNe on the Wannabes section.

If you are too lazy to use the search engine then just Google "PPRuNe wannabe advice".

[cruisercruiser]

Hi Effee,

This thread has a lot of good info and advice from both self-sponsored pilots and those who have gone through the cadetship. http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=213914&page=10

Good Luck

[Effee]

Hi, I've read the thread, and yes TI I did read the other threads concerning SIA before I posted.

I just have 1 more question, say I do not go to Massey, but attend a flying school while doing another degree in NZ. The licence is still not recognised by CAAS correct? It has to only come from Massey before it is recognised?

Also, regarding above. If a CPL taken in NZ or AU is not recognised by CAAS. A FAA licence would also not be recognised?

To sum it up, my question would be, it would not matter wherever you took your CPL licence. CAAS would still not recognise it. Also, is there any difference in what country you take your CPL in terms of employment and conversion.

[Thermal Image]

Some assumptions here. I take it that your first choice is to get into SIA as a cadet. All this planning to do your own fATPL / CPL with whoever / wherever, am I right to say that it is because you somehow think it will get you extra leverage to be selected, and maybe even come in at a more "senior" level?

Well, forget about short cutting their selection process and coming in any higher up the food chain - it just won't happen. At best you will come in at the Learjet phase and no further. NO direct Second Officer positions for fresh (250hr) fATPL / CPL holders, OK?

You are still too young to apply for SIA. So you don't know as yet if you are or are not cadet material. Can't you wait?

The facts are that there are about as many Massey boys in SIA as there are outside (meaning that they are jobless or in non-flying jobs). So in other words, after spending $150,000 it is still an even chance (50-50) that you may or may not get in. Now, with odds like that, why even bother?

If it was something like 90-10 that with a Massey title that you will be chosen, then it might be worth the gamble. And if you think that Massey paper will get you a management position in flight ops sometime down the road, you're dreaming. No such thing.

If you are so desperate to pay others to train you, why not try being a paying customer at Singapore Flying College (but you must of course be 26 or older)? So far they have had 4 private candidates. 3 have, after they got in as private candidates, been granted interviews by SIA/SinCargo/Silkair because they were deserving. But 1 rich boy driving his father's Audi TT to school got chopped. No bloody good. So it does not mean at all that just because you throw money at them that they will train you regardless of your attitude.

And then you really think that there will be some other flying job waiting for you if SIA does not pick you up after you're done with Massey? Wake up!

The fact that the cadets who are selected have all kinds of degrees means that it doesn't really matter WHAT paper you have. The selection board sees through all that and choose cadets based on their gut feel if someone will make a good pilot. Of course, external "devices" to demonstrate passion helps to establish claims that "oh I've always wanted to be a pilot" and that sort of crap stories.

Now, if you really have the passion in you to fly, you would be flying on your own, LONG before you are eligible to apply. That kind of history would make you stand out like a beacon amongst all the hopefuls. Way way better than some crap Massey paper. And way cheaper. So what is stopping you from going to uni here and then signing up with YFC in the meantime? Even if YFC refuses you, what is then stopping you from doing a PPL on your own?

And lastly, stop reasoning what CAAS will or will not accept. Just read the document, goddamnit! What is so difficult about Para 10.1 or 10.2? Or maybe you can't be bothered to read it and just prefer ask questions and be spoonfed?

[pyote]

There seems to be a hell of a lot of Massey bashing on here... Hey I went there, and I can admit that not everything was perfect and I used to moan and complain. But then one day I just woke up and said hey, why not actually just grasp the opportunity I have and go into the ranks of GA, hey I understand the person starting this thread wants to go directly into SIA and that’s all good, but hey I don’t think that if you got to Massey or Ardmore FS or any of the other schools they are going to guarantee you anything like that!

One has to take what every one of these schools says with a pinch of salt. One has to realise that they all are marketing a product and if it seems to good to be true it probably is!!! Surely someone can’t be so stupid as not to to see that all the flight schools out there are out to make a profit out of the masses of young people out there that have a passion for flying.

Someone earlier commented on the degree as just a piece of paper, I totally disagree. Even though it is or may well be a bachelor or diddly squat, it shows people that you can accomplish what you set out to do, that is the sort of thing (amongst the multitudes of other things) that potential employers look at. I guarantee you that if you have 2 identical people at an interview, and one has a degree and one doesn’t, the one with a degree will get the job. simple math’s. 1 + 1 = 43 or something like that...


Anyway that’s my 2 cents worth!!!

[dream747]

pyote,

Though can anyone can a job in the aviation industry with the BAv other than being a pilot?

[pyote]

Im really not to sure on that one, I really cant comment on that one as i dont know any one, Except one guy who graduated with me. He got qute a high powered job at the NZCAA. Heard a rumour that another one had a job with the Aus CAA. But my arguement is that if you have 2 people that are the same the one with the degree is going to get the job, no matter what job they are going for and what degree it is that they have.

[skyline78]

well said thermal image....:ok: u cant put it better....

[kohfab]

Hi is there anyone with anymore comments planning to go there as well.


Anyone graduated from massey??

Can give some feedbacks??

Thanks.

[mach2.5]

as to most people said, the degree is everything?????????:ugh: not really...

it is defintly good, if you have a degree, not matter on what....but with the money you spend and the time you wasted, well, that aviation degree might not be better off at all.

if you look at two people with the same hours, one with degree, one not, sure...the one with degree might get hired...:D

if you look at two people, one with 250 hours single piston, including 40 multi instrument rating blaa blaaa, with a degree. the other with 1500 hr tt, 500 multi....in cluding ATO expereince, without a degree, who do you think is better off?????????:D

i suppose at the end of the day, nothing is wrong with massey, or any big sausage factories,
but the problem, and the only problem is: what do you do after you have a degree and 250 hr ??

but if you got your CPL from a normal GA operator, with a part 135 ticket, and you did not do anything bad during your training, you might actually be the one they employ...

of course lots of massey graduates got into the airlines, but how many of them got in because they have a degree????i am not too sure on that....
but all i know is, the expereinece is everything, or almost everything, and the 250hrs with no job, is not the one to go.....

pm me if you got any more questions.....

[mach2.5]

hey pyote:

what did you do to get your degree? may i ask?

the aircraft systems and performance are great, i learnt a lot from that.....sure you can learn that from an aeroclub....or actually, from a thing called: book.

what forms the degree? aviation study? airport management? airways design??? what??? theey all sound kool, but how much did you actually learn from all that bull c...ap?

i can still remeber L=1/2pv2, and i still use that untill today....but i really dont give a rats ass about how well singapore airport is designed....and i believe, that part of the Bav is not a degree, is someone made up sh...t to make up the degree.

if you have a science degree, yep, you are a math god.... if you have an aviation degree, from what i can see and experience, i dont see myself as an aviation expert, i know nothing about aviation. it comes with experience.

the degree gives young pilots a false hope, and makes them think they know everything about aviation, makes them look down people who just have a CPL..... am i right?

do a search on CAA, 1500 active CPL holders i think, how many of them have an aviation degree? so are you saying, people without a degree will have nothing to offer??????:=

still, nothing wrong with massey training, or anyone else, it is just the degree above everything, makes me a bit worried.

[pyote]

Ok basically I think that you misunderstood me. I said 2 equal people one with a degree and one without, the one with a degree will always get the job simple!!!

I Agree with you that people going out there with an aviation degree are chopped down to size. I understand that not many airlines will give you a chance if you don’t have the experience. Hey I spent 1600hours sitting in bug smashes! Bloody fun though and would recommend it to all!

I would say though is that if there is an airline hiring fresh CPL's I’m sure it will be out of a degree course and not an Aero club.

I think that the Massey degree was good! Who better to be taught ATPL 747 flight planning by than the Chief Flight planner for Air NZ, or be taught Aerodynamics by someone who had a Doctorate in Quantum Physics, or do an aviation interest course in Flight crash investigation than a well renowned investigator????? (I know I found the scope of the course well and above ATP ASL subjects) I think it is a solid grounding in aviation, But one has to realise that not many people are going to get an airline job out of it unless they really know someone.

I suggest going to Africa and get a job there so you can find out how to really fly a plane! After all what is a CPL other than a licence to go out there and learn?

[pyote]

I never said that I look down on someone without a degree. Some of my best flying mates did aero club CPL's hey its however you do it.

I never said one way is better than another did I?

I’m just trying to say that a degree isn’t just a piece of paper as some people have referred to it as. It’s simple. Look at any industry, People with degrees generally are the Achievers ( always exceptions to the rule) But one has to realise that its not just a piece of paper! It’s a mindset!!! Some one with a degree has actually motivated their own ass for 3 years with a goal. It shows ones character as someone that can get a job done, or am I wrong?

[mach2.5]

hey, well said there.

i agree with you that the 747 planning...air tech ....stuff are great....i agree.

but i think you are lucky, went to africa, did all the hours....what about the rest of the people....how many of your classmates are still flying?if they went to an aeroclub, they might be a cheif pilot by now. but because they have to spend $100,000 with massey, and after that, did anyone say: hey you...you spend that much money, we will consider you as an employee....

if you go anywhere else, after spend that much money...no ****...people will treat you like god...of course you have to be half decent.

my piont is: yep, many graduates like you made through, had the will and effort of going to africa. but less than half of the people even finished the course, with 250 hrs, what are they gonna do? if your old man have money to buy you another job, good. if your mum is the CEO's receptionist who can give you an A320 job, cool. if you still have the money, after the 100,000, to buy a ticket to go to africa, good for you.not everbody wants to go to africa. not everybody can not pay back their student loan and run off to another country and never come back.

hey mate, hopefully you dont take me the wrong way, i am not trying to say bad things about the instructors or the lectures, they are great. i am just trying to make a point on what i think about the degree.

[pyote]

You May think its easy "running" away as you put it, and you may think I have a rich father that paid for my studies but that is really short sighted since you don’t actually know me. You may think that I ran away and that im not coming back to NZ but I’m actually in NZ now. I have a student loan, and if you go to the IRD website and check out how much someone has to pay back on their student loan if you are a non resident, you probably wont think that I took the easy way out. (For me it came out to 10 thousand a year where as if I was in NZ it wouldn’t be even close to that! Especially if I had to pay a % of what I was earning, which incidentally came out to almost half of my annual wage) you are making an argument that is totally irrelevant to the having a degree anyway.


“hey, well said there.

i agree with you that the 747 planning...air tech ....stuff are great....i agree."”


The reason I said what I did about 747 flight planning (I suggest you go reread what I said) is that when we were taught those subjects they were taught by someone who was of an extremely high caliber. I was taught by someone who was the chief flight planner for air NZ etc...

As for the question about how many of my class mates have jobs? I started with 45 people in my class 9 graduated and then another 6 or so graduated 6 months after me so that’s a total of 14, fair enough that’s a very low percentage, but its shows that not just anyone can knuckle down and finish a degree. As for those who finished I know that at least 11 are flying (ranging from A320, to NZ regional, UN Pilots on 1900's and ATR's and bush pilots all over the world as well as instructors in NZ and overseas, there are 2 that work for the CAA one in Aussie and one in NZ I would say that isn’t to bad for those who finished.)

Oh and when I went to Africa I saved for over a year so that I could have enough funds to go over there, so I didn’t sit in NZ jobless complaining about the industry, I got off my ass and did something about it.

I know there is a whole bunch of hatred towards Massey. Given there are many things wrong, but I did benefit form going there. Heaven forbid, but every pilot needs to worry about loosing his/her licence ( medical or whatever other reason) and if a pilot has a degree to fall back on it will make it so much better for him/her if it actually happens. It doesn’t matter what degree, I'm just saying that a degree isn’t just a pierce of paper!!!

[Luke SkyToddler]

You're right it isn't just a piece of paper. It's a very special piece of paper that says to everyone "I'm a gullible muppet that just spent 3 years and $120 grand on a pilot's licence at a contemptibly bad training school".

For god's sake man it's flying, it's a motor skill. Pull back cows get smaller, push forward cows get bigger. No matter how many ways you slice it there is no way on earth you can take 3 years and multiple thousand hours in a lecture theatre to teach people something as simple as that, without padding it out with a huge amount of unnecessary and totally irrelevant bollocks. The way to learn to fly is to go out there and actually fly. Which is why people who've only done 200 hours in 3 years - or an average of a bit over an hour per week actually flying planes for all that time - get a rude shock when they finish and they find their raw flying skills are actually p!ss poor compared to someone who's done it the old school way in the space of a few months.

And your B747 flight planning guru can put that in his pipe and smoke it :hmm:

[hxhlsj]

This forum has a lot of ppl saying Massey is so exp and BS. but as far as i can see it`s not that exp. if u wanna get you CPL MEIR in NZ u will spend about $50,000? right. well that`s about how much Massey charge as well.

after 2nd year we finish all the flight and paid about $70,000? so we got all rating and ATPL theory. well if u wanna go to do a degree course it`s about $5000 a year so 2 yrs of tution should be $10,000? 50000 +10000=60000. ok so massey charge u $10000 more than local aeroclub then !!

for heaven`s sake dont make sound like massey charges everyone over $100,000 because that is for INTERNATIONAL. they charge the same price as domestic for the practicum fees. its just their tution fees 5-6 times more exp than us. but i guess if anyone ever want to get a degree from overseas. it will be bloody exp anyway

[pyote]

I never paid 120 000 I paid 65 when I did it, and it was only 15 thousand more than a CPLMEIR with only 15-20 hours twin. I ended up with 55 odd hour’s twin a degree and a CPL. Bloody good value to me!

But then again its all about bashing Massey by every little sour grape out there. Its pretty funny how so many people who went to chargemore or somewhere else are bashing Massey left right and centre, but the Massey guys and girls just don’t give a flying toss about the other guys and how they got to where they are.

I did my time in GA, and as anyone who has been through the ranks or GA knows your licence is just a licence to go out there and learn.

I was the CP at my last job, I had people from Massey and a number of the other well reputed training organizations in NZ, to tell the truth there really wasn’t much difference between any of their flying abilities. The Average fresh CPL holder is as good and as bad as each other. I’m not debating how good or bad some one is at flying when they have a CPL.

But at the end of the day a degree will get you so much further in all fields than not.

[mach2.5]

this discussion started with a guy wants to go to SIA, and wants to go to massey, of course i am talking about the international price.

massey has good training, good and experienced instructors, lectures, i have never doubt that. it is just the money he is going to spend, might get him a little more hours than just 250hr.

thats it guys, i have never said dont go massey, because of its crap training. the training was great when i was there. got taught by great instructors. until today i still keep in touch with some of them...

i liked massey's training, people, facilities.....not the price.

[sammy425]

Effee,

My suggestion is for you to go do a degree programme in a local uni, NUS/NTU. From there, join the SYFC (Singapore Youth Flying Club). You get to train for almost free (you have to pay for membership and t-shirt and some materials which is less than $100).

If you get a PPL, great for you, the whatever 50-60 hours you get can allow you to continue some very basic GA around SG. Well, or you can even join the Airforce after that.

So local degree will cost you much lesser than going overseas, and at the same time, you get some flying experience.

From there (SYFC), then you decide if you still love flying or not.

[Sunny_Always]

im in syfc now and 10 sorties away from fht.

on the part about cost, if you manage to get the ppl, they'll give you $500 cash(cheque actually).

the training, well it pretty much depends on you and your instructor but most people(me included) will say its very easy to screw up and get scolded. after all, they're doing a service for you and not the otherway around like in the case of flight schools.

because there's so many people, count yourself lucky to fly twice a week. by the time i get my ppl(minus nav) in june, it would have taken me slightly over a year.

here comes the part that people dont get about syfc, its not like a regular flight school where you enroll and will most definitely get the licence. after meeting the more-than-airforce medical requirements, 1 out of 4 will pass the interview and be accepted and start phase 1 training(very basic stuff like climbing, turning) then 3 out of a batch of 20 will proceed to phase 2(circuits) they'll most probably go 1st solo then phase 3(ppl licence prep) but this is subject to time and instructor constrains. given the success rate, this is definitely not a route to depend on but worth a try nevertheless.



here's a question on my part, is the 26y/o thing specifically for airlines or everything. meaning can i be a cfi at syfc or sfc before 26?

[sammy425]

Sunny_Always

Well, I certainly hope the weather is cloudless always instead during flights.

Anyway, the 26 year old thing is for SIA only. To be more precise, a Singaporean can only join SIA (as a pilot) after he or she pass their 26th birthday.

I agree with your view on the small amount of students getting their PPL at the SYFC. So its quite like the survival of the fittest, but after all, part of the aim at SYFC is to expose and get more people interested in aviation.

My take on getting through the phase 1 & 2, is to fly frequently during those period, and if possible be the first person to go 1st solo in the course. It "SHOULD" give you a place at phase 3, unless your instructor thinks that you do not have the aptitude to do so.

[dream747]

I was flying with SYFC as well during school days as well. Personally to me it seems that they're looking for potential pilots to join the air force. In my intake there are a few students who were offered a contract by the RSAF at around their 45th sortie even before they got their PPL.

And yes I've got my fair share of scolding too! :ouch:

[Sunny_Always]

if their flying was slow and rsaf application was fast, its possible to sign on before fht.

we can book every wave everyday but that doesnt mean they'll fly us more often.

[sammy425]

And yes I've got my fair share of scolding too!

HHhmm, I got whacked once by 1 instructor. Its scary you know, but I don't think that guy is there any longer. Probably he had too many issues. :)

But future students please do not worry, the place has changed a lot since my time, 7-8 years ago. :D Everything is pretty compared to then.

[dream747]

I was there 2 years ago and I think it is still pretty much the same. I belive they need to instil the discipline in the students and train us to work and think in stressful conditions.

The worse time I got scolded was during straight and level. To me the plane seems to be really straight and level with no movements to the altittude indicator and HSI but he said I'm always swerving to the left!:ugh:

[HotelUniform]

Nothing should go wrong if you follow the heading. Maybe there was crosswind from the right which your instructor missed and in turn scolded you.

You should also check the attitude indicator in future.

LOL

[ken0311]

since the RSAF has relaxed a little bit on eyesight, SQ has been more relaxed on eyesight too. so as long as your eyesight does not exceed 500 degrees, you should be ok. i wear glasses and my eyesight is 350 degrees, corrected to 6/5 and i got considered.:)

[085781]

hmm..im abit confused.. :confused: considered=selected ?

[nortwinds]

Does anyone know how Massey chooses which students get the airline jobs?

[Thermal Image]

Does anyone know how Massey chooses which students get the airline jobs?

Errr, care to point out where you got this notion that Massey is in a position to select who goes where?

[Effee]

Hello again, i'd like to thank everyone for their helpful advice on the subject. After thinking it over, I've decided that I will not do a Aviation degree at Massey's or anywhere else. From what I've read it seems like an Aviation degree does little to no good getting you hired as a pilot. Furthermore the chances of being hired for the majors straight after you graduate...that is very low and entry only as a cadet with the number of hours that you will have when you grad. Which IMO is not worth it.

The best choice I feel right now for me, is to pursue another degree, while doing a modular flying course on the side. Maybe even instruct at the same school when I have completed my IR. Country has yet to be decided, I did pretty okay in school so I have a few choices. But most likely Canada/US or Aus.

I will have very little free time, but at least it is much cheaper and I have something else to fall back upon in case my aviation dreams dont come true.
Thanks again for all the help.

[nortwinds]

Thanks Thermal Image. I'll go back a step and ask this on a new thread as this one seems to have run its course and changed focus.

[AC Schnitzer]

Hi Effee,

Let me know if you are in Perth. I'm currently in 3rd yr uni and fly occassionally when the lecturers are forgiving in assignments distribution.

Would be able to recommend you several flight schools in Perth. :ok: