Pilot Shortage?

[petesevenseven]

Apparently there is supposed to be a "Worldwide Pilot Shortage".........:D

Where exactly is this shortage:confused:

Happy Landings!!!!!!

Pete!!!!!!!!

[Dan Winterland]

There is a shortage - of sorts. A shortage of pilots with 1000s of hrs on type - which a lot of employers seem to want. As they aren't finding these pilots, one can only expect that their minimun requirements will have to decrease if they are going to fill those seats.

India and China are going to need large numbers of pilots soon, so it may have not filtered through to the lower levels of experience yet. One good thing is that the number of companies offering jobs where you have to pay for your own rating are reducing. If pilots stopped taking these jobs they will dissapear altogether!

[X-Centric]

Well guys, Just heard that EZY are asking their existing pilot work force if they can 'recommend a friend' to join their ranks. Just one example of the improving job market. Things are definitely looking a great deal brighter than they were just 12 months ago. Best of luck.:ok:

[Aussie]

I dont think there will ever be a shortage!

Aussie

[GlueBall]

There is no shortage of pilots; but there is a shortage of current [within 1-year] and qualified [5000 hrs total heavy jet, 500 hrs PIC on type] pilots. :ooh:

[FlyinLow]

I think China-Airlines is training 500 pilots over next 5 years in Canada. Becoming a pilot is quite easy now, with schools offering the full rating packages in 9 months.

[Aussie]

I think China-Airlines is training 500 pilots over next 5 years in Canada. Becoming a pilot is quite easy now, with schools offering the full rating packages in 9 months.


At what cost???????


Aussie

[rduarte]

Well guys, Just heard that EZY are asking their existing pilot work force if they can 'recommend a friend' to join their ranks. Just one example of the improving job market. Things are definitely looking a great deal brighter than they were just 12 months ago. Best of luck.:ok:

I do not have a "friend " at Easy, but they did not accept my application,although, I have 2600 TT, 2000 JAR 25 T, 1600 Jet wide-body T.:confused: :ugh:

[Bad Robot]

I got a reject, PFO EM recently. I phoned up to ask why, as I met all the criteria they asked for. Zoe told me to go back into the application form and review VERY carefully what I had written as if you do not for example, insert the dates correctly, say you wrote 1.1.70 instead of 01/01/1970, it throws the sysem out and you automatically get a "rejected" EM.
Also review the reason why you want to join Easy.

I reapplied and did not get a rejected EM this this around.
Try again and see how it goes.:ok:

BR.

[CaptainProp]

When did you guys get rejected?? Think you should apply again....just a tip...
Good luck!
/CP

[Polarhero]

Well guys, Just heard that EZY are asking their existing pilot work force if they can 'recommend a friend' to join their ranks......

Anyone to recommend me then? ;)

[Yarpy]

Of course you can be 'unrecommended' too. A few years ago I attended an RAF reunion. A few of us started talking about easyJet's recruitment practices. Putting two and two together we concluded that a former colleague:} who was not present but flew for easyJet had been spiking our applications. Apparently he was neutralising potential political threats.

Difficult to prove of course but someone who was thoroughly sly and duplicitous twenty years ago probably hadn't changed his spots.

[Pontious]

Yarpy

It's not just the ex-RAF types who do that. An ex-RN colleague tried it with an application of mine which backfired in a major way on him and his crony. Strange how it seems to be the ex service people who do it most often.

:ok:

[airbus2boeing]

Where's the shortage? Definitely not here in the US.

[MACH.8]

Dan and GlueBal, you are both dead right.

There has always been misconceptions about pilot shortages.

Southeast Asia for instance, is flooded with Airlines which have increased their fleets dramatically in the last few years and are looking for Experienced, Type Rated and Current pilots to crew their planes.

Hopefully that short term shortage will filter down to the lower end, low time pilots in the near future.

Good luck to all..:ok:

[low n' slow]

The shortage is here in Finland more exactly Finnair, Finncomm, Air Finland and so on. That's where it's at.

/LnS

[fortuna76]

Every few months somebody comes up with pilot shortage. In a sense I guess it is a bit of wishfull thinking, more then anything else. I strongly believe that there will never ever, ever, be a lack of pilots, because there are just to many walking around without a job. Every handling agent I talk to seems to have a cpl these days. Everyone who brings me the loadsheet seems to pop the question: how do I get in your company. We are talking about 4000 unemployed fully licensed pilots in my country alone. Offcourse they are lowtimers, and that doesn't seem to count.

If you would put experience in 3 groups:
- lowtime <200 hours, no airline experience
- medium commuter experience, or jet job, 1000\2000 hours fo
- hightime pic 5000 hours jet experience

Now the hightime guys are always in demand. They were even in demand right after sept11. The lowtime are never in demand and never will. No pilot shortage there. In the words of my manager: I kick a rock and there are 10 lowtimers crawling from underneath it!

The real winners are the medium experience guys. I have seen myself in the last year go from not interesting c.v., to invitations from mayor airlines which I would never have dreamed off. But people are still paying for typeratings, even those with experience. And salaries are still generally crap, not speaking of the working hours. So I wonder how desperate the companies really are. If pilots are in such short supply, then they should lurk us with nice jobs, good salaries and fine working conditions. I have not seen that as yet......

[Yarpy]

Pontious, you have just reminded me. The bloke in question was ex RN.:(

Actually, he did me a favour by all accounts.

[MercenaryAli]

Becoming a pilot is quite easy now, with schools offering the full rating packages in 9 months.

Becoming a pilot is never easy - remaining a pilot is even harder - being a good pilot takes years of training, experience and listening to those who have been there, done it, got the T-Shirt.:ok:

[Mr Moustache]

The shortage of pilots exists but is in specific areas, as the man said. Experienced and type rated - well I have never had so many possibilities. My current company has all the CVs it can deal with but the shortage is for captains and especially type rated ones. We have even started to take very experience, type rated SFOs as direct entry captains. Notwithstanding the current security nonsense, it is a great time to be in the industry.
PS My quality of life has taken a great leap forward since leaving EZY. Their 'recommend a friend' is not new but even when I was there, I asked a lot of questions of people who expressed a desire to join. The life there suits some people but definitely not all.

[Ignition Override]

A major airline in the US, which is not even the largest, has about 700 pilots on furlough.

The only shortage which has existed for decades has consisted mostly of what type of bias the crew hiring staff have, whether for mostly pilots with primarily military experience, or for a mix of military and civilian backgrounds.

The mix of pilots who flew three or more types of transport-category planes and are below a certain age can describe an artificial category of a so-called shortage, especially if they must have a 4-year college degree.

One airline, back in the good old days, had "no show" pilots missing on the first day of new-hire Initial Training groundschool with little or no notice, because of its limited and reportedly dreary selection of cities with crewbases :D .

[endofeng]

There is a shortage at Flybe!

They are desperate for Captains, so if anyone with command hrs wants the left seat of a Q400?

Or?

Yep, maybe give it a wide berth!

----------------
endofeng:ok:

[Fliegenderflieger]

:bored:
I wrote some 50 Applications this Year,
have around 7500hrs on Turboprops, half of them in Comand, got three offers, haven`t accepted these.
-->
Low Pay or
every Weekend Traveling some hundres of km to the Homebase by Rail or
no Pensionsceme and no Health Insurance, or
bying a TR for around 30.000Euro and flying fot 2.200 Net as Co or
bying a TR for around 55.000 Euro/Job Broker in the UK/no Job guaranteed
or or or

There are Jobs. . .

[Fliegenderflieger]

P.S.
...send also Applications to Kingfisher(3x) and Jetairways (3x),
no Response... :ugh:

[dartagnan]

there is a shortage, but airlines don't want pay or do not want even train pilots.

they are short of experienced captains, but during all these years, they didn't want to offer uprade trainings.

it is hard enough to pay for his training, then pay for a type rating, pay for hours, and then pay to find a job...I am not surprised by the post of Fliegendenflieger, this is scandalous and it scares me.

some airlines offer block of hours to their pilots (pay to work), afer a few months they leave the company resulting a market filled with low hours jet pilots having several type raitings but no real experience to become a good captain.

who to blame?airlines or pilots who accept anyhing just to fly some hours.

[californiakid]

Hey,you want to try GAMA ! You are bonded for over twice what it costs them to have you trained and then bond you EACH year for about 7k (pounds) that you are with the company .This is to cover ''recurrent '' training costs..............................!

What a bloody cheek.

C.:(

[MungoP]

BMI has an ad running in the current FI for NON TYPE RATED/DIRECT ENTRY CAPTS....Turbo-Prop experience acceptable... The first such ad I've seen since the beggining of the recession in '93... seems that there really is a pilot shortage now.

[Fuzzy112]

Haven't seen the add but are the jobs at bmi mainline, bmi baby or bmi regional. There is no shortage of suitably qualified first officers at mainline. This is despite the fact that the company have lost a large number of seriously senior and experienced training Captains to Easyjet recently. Mind you with the current climate at mainline the management love it when people leave because it repressents a financial saving!:mad:

[Buster the Bear]

easyJet posted recently good profits, but those would have been massively increased if they had adequate numbers of crew to fly their planes this year. No mention of this to investors I noticed. With thousands of cancelled flights and a large number of aircraft leased in easyJet are one of a number of airlines struggling to keep pace with expansion (taking previous internal politics there aside).

[AltFlaps]

Mungo,

With reference to BMI recruiting ....

I think you will find that its bmiBaby - not the Airbus operation.
Things are so stagnant at BMI, that captains fly with other captains almost as often as first officers. There are a very large number of command assessed senior first officers with 3 strips ...

[fmgc]

Is is actually BMI Regional.

[zooloflyer]

There are indeed big changes ahead, at least here in Belgium.

From what I know about 80-90 ab initio candidates with valid licences were available last summer of which 45 will go to Brussels Airlines in the coming 6 months!, 15 to the ex Virgin, some at DHL/EAT, VLM is also short of pilots and prefers now to hire over contract pilots and Thomas Cook/TUI will also be taking in some 20 pilots or more, TUI seems to be looking for candidates without even MCC now as they found close to 0 candidates for the SSTR :D :D
As far as I know not too many new people in training for the moment with the high cost of training - +100k€ and the uncertainty of what will come in 2 years...
TNT Liege is another story - they stopped recruitment after the 737 incident 6 months or so ago, published on Flight Int for a few weeks looking for experienced capt/FO, apparently without success as they are starting to call all candidates from this week of whom most are already committed.

I experienced the FR recruitment too and although there are still enough candidates to start the SSTR - the myth of the database with 1000's of pilots is definitly out of the door as many candidates for the interview were there after a call only a few days before sim eval day. MOL is definitly wrong in his NY investor presentation stating the supply is and will remain unlimited - I guess many airines will have to start cadet programs in the very near future or the shortage will become a threat to their forecasted growth.

Good for the pilots and the general conditions - finally.:ok:

[Jambo Buana]

Ryanair will train 120 cadets in CAE AMS and 120 in SAS Stockholm over the next 12 months.They are also looking at the far east for MPL courses!

ps Not including DE pilots!!

[MungoP]

The significance of the ad to my mind was the fact that they were willing to take non type-rated pilots from the turbo-prop pool and type-rate them as direct entry capts. I know that many companes train up wanabees and pay them peanuts to move the c of g fwd an inch or so but this is the first indication that I've seen that experienced, non type-rated guys are getting a chance to move into the main-line again...
We've heard the term pilot shortage being bandied around for the last couple of years but what the companies really mean is a lack of pilots who can move into their cockpits without costing them a type rating.. There are probably a few thousand very experienced pilots out there who's day is shortly arriving... let's hope. ( of course...I don't know what sort of bonding or repayment scheme may be attached to the offer )

[viking737]

TNT Liege is another story - they stopped recruitment after the 737 incident 6 months or so ago

What was this incident?

[Meeb]

The first such ad I've seen since the beggining of the recession in '93... seems that there really is a pilot shortage now.

Not even close I am afraid, you really should pay attention.... ;)

bmi Regional advertised at least two times before this advert, looking for exactly the same thing, so it is not new.

This advert appeared at the exact same time the BA Connect sale was made public. I very much doubt bmi will now need to look at anyone without a Emb145 rating.... :bored:

TNT Liege is another story - they stopped recruitment after the 737 incident 6 months or so ago

What was this incident?

Something to do with leaving an undercarriage leg behind at a Midlands airport if I remember right....

[groundhogbhx]

Something to do with leaving an undercarriage leg behind at a Midlands airport if I remember right....

And the rest of it at another:ooh:

[old-timer]

I don't believe there is a shortage now or for quite a while -there are just too many keep folk paying for their tickets (including type ratings) for that to happen, unless the economy dips & reduces cash flows but that would affect demand too so idemand/shortage is directly affected either way

Sorry to be a party pooper but those days of shortages are long gone I fear especially when the pollution taxes kick in & kill the Lo-Co op's long term.

[Wings]

6 years ago I applied to the biggest airline in Hong Kong.
I received a very curt form letter saying

"We have your CV on file.
Update it every 6 months quoting this reference number.
We might get back to you, we might not."

I decided that an organisation that was so impersonal was not for me, so never wrote to them again. Since then my life has moved on and I'm happy where I am doing what I'm doing.

Last week I received a letter from the Hong Kong airline inviting me to reapply for a position senior to what I originally applied for. I repeat I have had no communication with them in 6 years.

And this is one of those airlines that lots of pilots aspire to join.

I conclude from this that they must be short of suitable pilot applicants and are hunting far and wide to find some.
In other words;

There is a very serious shortage of suitably qualified, experienced pilots.

[porridge]

Heard from someone, don't know how true it is, that there are 1000's of unemployed pilots in France and a substantial proportion of these have loads of time on the large stuff. Now pray, if this is true why do the likes of FR and EasyJet have aircraft on the ground short of crews. Is is something to do with French licenses not being JAR acceptable? Or is this just another unfounded rumour?

[dr.berzel]

To "wings"

Right you are, at least regarding the world wide market..
Being in close contact to several mates flying widespread around the globe,
everybody is telling me that his airline is looking for experienced pilots, some
of them desperately!
The biggest demand exists in the middle east and asia, but Europe starts to
clear up as well. For the time being you still might require the appropriate
type rating, but some companies start to offer even this.

As one of my fellas here stated: The tsunami is already launched, but our
so called "managers" haven't realized it yet!

Just be patient for a few more months more, our time is about to come..

Fly safe

dr.b.

[Jambo Buana]

Porridge, there are quite a few experienced pilots floating around Framce, but they are being too well looked after by their govmt and Air Force pensions to be bothered moving. They are the kings of lifestyle remember, and would never trade lifestyle, especially to work for a LCC based in Essex.

As for FR having loads of planes doing nothing, that is not correct at the moment. It looks like (sounds like) the next 20 in coming a/c are already crewed which is given the rest of us a well earned break whilst we wait for them. The proof of the pudding will be in late feb and March when the old crews will approach the 900 hr limit. If the company has got it right, it should just about work, if not like the last 3 years planes will be on the ground again.

There is a serious shortgage of GOOD pilots, and they are the ones every airline wants cos they save shed loads of money, fly the planes smoothly and safety is never an issue with them, it comes naturally! Oh, and they speak good English!!!!

[sfbbus]

Did hear from extremely reliable source that Easy Jet "need" 600 pilots next year. Presumably they need captains and not just fo's, so will have to take direct entry guys. Wherever they get them from (even the people willing to pay for their own training and work for no wages can't fill the gap) it will cause a vacuum with a knock on effect for the whole industry. We live in hope.

[Airlink Scotland]

An expanding UK based 737 operator told me recently they have a hold pool full up with qualified and experienced 737 pilots, and a list of others waiting to get the chance to apply.... :uhoh:

Shortage, doubt it.

[flyerire]

As usual, these pilot shortage debates have gotten wildly out of hand with many contrasting views. Let me try and clear up a few things for us.

There is a large shortage of qualified pilots with plenty of hours and who are type rated on the aircraft the employer flies. Just take a look at all of the ads in the back of FI every week.

However this does not automatically mean that there is a genuine shortage of ab-initio guys. There are hundreds been churned out of FTE, Oxford etc every month. IMHO, some companies do not like to take guys like this and prefer to be involved with their training right from the beginning. A few companies have started this type of scheme but no-one has really ventured towards sponsorship yet.
One example i know of is Cityjet who are sending guys down to South Africa, and visit them every few months to check up on them. They also have a say in exactly how they are trained. For example, Cityjet ensured that the newbies were flying within a week of starting training unlike many other schools which do a lot of ground school first. Cityjet have also agreed to SPONSOR the new guys type rating, which clearly shows that they are worried another company may snap these guys up once their fully trained possibly hinting that they may find it hard to keep pilots.

Based on this i believe we are at the very start of a bright period for pilot recruitment and barring any major world events the industry should keep on growing.

However, i believe that we can only say that there is a TRUE pilot shortage when Airlines need to offer sponsorship schemes in order to attract employees!

Flyerire.:ok:

[Bigmouth]

6 years ago I applied to the biggest airline in Hong Kong.
I received a very curt form letter saying
"We have your CV on file.
Update it every 6 months quoting this reference number.
We might get back to you, we might not."
I decided that an organisation that was so impersonal was not for me, so never wrote to them again. Since then my life has moved on and I'm happy where I am doing what I'm doing.
Last week I received a letter from the Hong Kong airline inviting me to reapply for a position senior to what I originally applied for. I repeat I have had no communication with them in 6 years.

Same thing happened to me. Of course it may just be that they emailed this out wholesale to every address they have on file.
If they were really desperate they'd have picked up the phone or at least invited me to an interview.

[Accident Prawn]

Airlink Scotland

Not entirely so. I fly for an ever expanding 737 operator LHS in the midlands.
They have just taken on a friend I have recommended, with no commercial flying experience, zero jet time and no sim check, as a result of him passing one elsewhere recently!!!
True as daylight follows night. :D

[me109]

Good evening to eveyone ,
Being an experienced FO with a few thousand hours on B737 , I have had plenty of e-mails , phone calls etc regarding interviews , some of which I applied to about 4 years ago . A very good indication of an experienced pilot shortage.
However , I applied to a certain Lo Co in Luton , and recieved an interview date within 5 days of applying .
The interview , and tech paper went very well , and went to the sim early the next morning . The first few minutes were a little untidy , however , I settled in nicely .The assesor was not from the above indicated airline , but from a certain training provider .
I then recieved a call within 2 days informing me that I was not up to standard . Only a week prior to this , I had my LPC which was observed by a CAA inspector , which went very well , and recieved a very good report .
I must admit that I am still suprised at what happened , due to the fact that this particular airline is looking for 450 pilots , as was expressed to me at my interview .
I definately do not have a gripe at all , the people in Luton , were very pleasant , friendly , and welcoming .
I agree there is a shortage , however , how much of a shortage .:ugh:

[Craggenmore]

Did hear from extremely reliable source that Easy Jet "need" 600 pilots next year.

I love PPRUNE! Your reliable source is way off the mark. EZY want 450.

[Monarch Man]

Don't worry ME109, its just that the certain training provider can't make that much money off you:sad: Your story has been repeated several dozen times, that I am aware of.

Just out of interest, the assessor wasn't as certain ex BA 767 skipper was it?

[CamelhAir]

One example i know of is Cityjet who are sending guys down to South Africa, and visit them every few months to check up on them. They also have a say in exactly how they are trained. For example, Cityjet ensured that the newbies were flying within a week of starting training unlike many other schools which do a lot of ground school first. Cityjet have also agreed to SPONSOR the new guys type rating, which clearly shows that they are worried another company may snap these guys up once their fully trained possibly hinting that they may find it hard to keep pilots.

Damn generous of them to "sponsor" the ratings, considering they're charging them twice the market rate for the CPL/IR training. And that WITHOUT a job guarantee. It seems however they're correct in worrying about the guys going elsewhere, as rumour has it the cadets have refused to sign ****yjet contracts.

As far as I can see, were these different times, times in which pilots had an ounce of self-respect and were unwilling to be ridden by the airlines, there would be a serious shortage. However, while legions of goons are willing to sign up to SS ratings (SS being quite an apt acronymn actually for some of the airlines behaviours) and work for half nothing, there won't be the much-desired overall shortage for a while yet. What there is a certainly a shortage of is good and/or experienced guys. However, until forced to do otherwise, airlines only want warm-bodies on seats, minimum quality being acceptable.

[flyerire]

Damn generous of them to "sponsor" the ratings, considering they're charging them twice the market rate for the CPL/IR training. And that WITHOUT a job guarantee. It seems however they're correct in worrying about the guys going elsewhere, as rumour has it the cadets have refused to sign ****yjet contracts.


Actually, the fully integrated course Cityjet offer is costs exactly the same amount as going to Oxford or Jerez!!

While there were no guarantee's of a job, it seemed like a damn better prospect than anyone else was offering.
And just FYI, all the guys i know down there have signed their contracts of employment and are united in praising how well they have been looked after by Cityjet.

So while most were understandably sceptical about this program at first, it seems to have turned out to be a real gem!!

[Dani]

Based on this i believe we are at the very start of a bright period for pilot recruitment and barring any major world events the industry should keep on growing.

A very profound analysis, flyerire.
Additionally, it is simply to find out that there must be a shortage, or if not yet, it will come.

Input of new pilots has decreased since the recession in the early 90's, after 9/11. Lots of classical airlines have seized operation or at least their cadet scheme. Every year the old baby boomer captains go into pension. They have started their career in the 60/70's when there was the first expansion of civil aviation, so a big drain.

Although there is a huge number of people willing to pay for it, there will be never as much as there used to be when it was paid by the airline.

Airline industry is expanding at a breathtaking pace.

Ergo there must be a demand. As it has been said mainly for experienced captains, with several thousands of hours. Because of the reasons I stated above, there might be a lot of old and middle aged guys, but those with 5-10 years of service should be rare, and they are the ones the airlines need (for upgrading and cheap CMDs).

my 2 cents,
Dani

[Shagtastic]

ME109,

A lucky escape there my friend.

Who knows how many decent pilots CTC trainers have ditched in the sim ride qe? :ugh:

Shags

[paco]

Interesting thread - so what would be the chances for someone sitting on a UK ATPL(A) with 3000 hours (no jet) getting a place? (Also have ATPL(H) and another 5000 heli)

Phil

[iqit]

i would like to point out something that some may have not yet thought of.
lets assume that 3 companies have 100 pilots each ,in their respective ,waitting lists.
lets again assume that atleast 50 of those pilots are allready in all 3 companies waiting lists .(as it is usually the case ....when people decide to move on ,they apply to more than one company and end up in more than one waiting list)
this has the effect of , 2 out of the 3 companies waiting lists ,to be short by 50 pilots.
so if all available pilots in waiting lists are ,for example,1000,and if all companies waiting lists are 1000 each ,and if one companies gets all 1000 pilots in their waiting list ,that means that the remaining companies will have non in their waiting lists.
so waiting list numbers ,dont ,necessarily reflect ,the amount of available pilots.

[FRying]

To me, there is NO pilot shortage at all when you're a demanding a pilot.
Sure, plenty of airlines are seeking pilots. But for a pilot to undig a nice airline with nice conditions and pay is a bit harder. Getting your bum up in the sky is not complicated at all. Making good money in a good airline with good rosters is a bit trickier.
I tend not to accept anything at any price. I'm getting very picky with the years. And searches take a bit more time. While you're striving with a bad airline, plenty of nice job opportunities pass you by.

[FRying]

Re TNT, how in the world can anyone apply there ??? Crap money, crap night-flights. COnsidering this is a company making outrageous profits, I take it as a slap in the face and a waste of time.

[flyingelf]

pilot shortage....It could be but the most important thing is that this incresing pilot demands :} ....will give us the chance not to pay for type ratings, now it's almost normal but it wasn't like this once...:ugh:
FE

[me109]

Monarch man , that individual you refer to , was indeed an ex BA 767 skipper .
I may give it another go , but at the moment I am strongly considering an application to Monarch . Thank God , I have a job , so perhaps the pilot shortage will work more in our favour .:D

[Cuillin]

Me109

I can identify with your experience of LoCo airline based out of Luton as well.

Made one error right at the beginning - accelerated at 1500' instead of 3000' (doing what I normally do every day of the week) but everything else was to a very above average standard. I speak as someone who is extremely self-critical!

A friend of mine went through on the same day and made several small mistakes (with a different assessor) but was still accepted. He is now a Captain with them.

I pointed out my error on the self assessment form we filled in (self-aware) but still got rejected. Wrote to said company asking to see what had been written about me but was told they couldn't do that. I reminded them that it is the law that someone should have access to something that has been written about them. They relented and told me that the report said that apart from the initial error the rest of the assessment was to a good standard!

My only contact with a certain south-coast based training organisation but it wasn't a good one. They are costing EZY (oops) a lot of perfectly competent individuals but EZY (oops) are too thick skinned to realise it.

All history to me now and their rejection has actually worked in my favour.

[me109]

Cuillin ,

I have met a lot of people lately with the same story . It really is amazing .
A very good friend of mine had his sim very recently , he called me afterwards and sais that it was a mess . He over shot the dme on the outbound leg , and missed his altitude by 200 feet . He recieved a phone call 2 days later offering him either aircraft type , he wasnt fussy about basing .
I am sincerely delighted for him . From all the accounts I hear of this selection , there are so many inconsistancies . Anyway , it has worked out better for me as I have been put foreward for a command , providing my next LPC is up to scratch.
The CAA will provide info on how many ATPL and CPL holders there are , and also how many candidates are up for their GFT's .
There are not that many , so I believe that this certain Lo Co will have problems as early as next summer in getting qualified people . Indeed , all airlines will have similar problems .
My present company , who will remain nameless , are already having problems in recruiting for next summer .:D

[hapzim]

Who wants to join the pilots of today?

I hear Flybe have just dropped their starting salary for new dash f/o's down to £23 000.00. They have increased the pay by 4% per year for the next 3 years for current staff and brought dash trainers onto jet pay to try to retain those they have.

Just scraped through the Balpa ballot :ouch:

[Cuillin]

Hapzim

I got my first airline job as a turboprop (F27) first officer 17 years ago and started on £17.5K. Things have improved in all that time to £23K!

Says it all really.

Me109

The CTC guy who assessed me at EZY was also ex 757/767 but I don't know from which operator. This was about 3 years ago. Had never failed even an item on any OPC/LPC. Had never flown a 737 up until then either.

Water under the bridge and I am far better off now than if I had gone to EZY.

Get your command with present company and get some command hours up. If you still have itchy feet then don't give up your command. I did and regretted it. I can maybe think of one or two operators it is worth giving your command up for.

All the best

[allatp]

Hello,

Does anyone know if there is a major airline that hires pilots that have not flown jet?
I'm looking for a F/O position flying jets. I'm currently flying a Dash 8 as Captain. I hold 6,000 hrs TT, which 900 are as PIC on type.
I'd appreciate any information in the matter. Thanks a lot!!!

[Bad Robot]

Try the Flybe/BACON Fiasco thread.

But put your kevlar on!;)

BR.

[High Wing Drifter]

Did hear from extremely reliable source that Easy Jet "need" 600 pilots next year.
I wonder how do contractor renewals fit into the "need" numbers?

[CaptainProp]

Official figure for this year was/is 426 pilots....

[Founder]

I've been hearing rumors from all kinds of places, mostly TRTO's who are trying to sell me TR's that there is a really big shortage of pilots in Europe right now?
Are these rumors true or just a way of trying to sell products?
If there is a shortage, where and on what type of aircraft?

[BAP]

Hei Founder..

I'm afraid that's rumours, because as far as I can see, most airlines have now completed there recruitment for this summer.. If there's a shortage I think it will be for captains, and experienced F/O for fast track command..

There's a shortage of instructors, and pilots who are willing to fly aerial photography, sightseeing etc.. At least that's the case i Denmark at the moment...
However I've heard that Sterling is still recruiting through there SSTR scheme, but that's an expensive option if you ask me..

Good luck.
BAP

[neil armstrong]

there are lots of jobs arround but there is only a lack of experianced pilots at the moment!
The problem is that the airlines are still not willing to pay for experience!

Neil

[Heliport]

there are lots of jobs around but there is only a lack of experienced pilots at the moment

That's what everybody says, but Jim McAuslan the General Secretary of BALPA said last month that pilots are in short supply and claimed unless airlines are flexibile they'll struggle to recruit. He was talking about low experience/low hours FOs.

You can email him c/o [email protected] ([email protected])
I don't know if you have to be a member to get leads/inside info, but nothing to lose by asking.

[Hansard]

There's a shortage of trainers and sim slots for TRs.

[Flare-Idle]

SWISS is cancelling flights nearly every day due to flight crew shortage. Lease in of Helvetic F100s and occasionally Edelweiss A320s and Belair B757 to cope with lack of flight crews on the ARJ fleet...

[Tubbs]

According to Loganair management there's a shortage of inexperienced F/Os in Scotland/UK...we have had to hire hoards of Swedes who just happen to be type rated on the Saab

[Amin]

I know this is not the same continent, but one regional airlines in US has lowered the minimums to 250tt to hire pilots. So will other US regional airlines do too very soon. There is a big big big BIG Flight Instructor shortage in US right now. Schools are crying for FI and mean time student from china, India and some European students are on hold due to lack of instructors. The demand for pilots is not being met by the supply. It will look good for few years!!!

Good Luck :ok:

[Lord Lucan]

You will know when there is a pilot shortage when it is routine to offer type ratings for new-hires.

That is most definitely not the current situation.

Having said that, the situation does appear (to me) to be improving. A few have moved on from my company after a long, more or less static, period. And have been replaced with low timers who pay their own TR.

[mistral7]

Even an airline like klm is has canceled several flights in the last few weeks.
On the 330 ,pilots are flying on their days off and leave period.
those were flights I can monitor ,because I was scheduled to position on them; so how many more in the whole network?

[u0062]

If it is true that The almighty KLM are cancelling flights, justice may being served.
May be now they will reflect on how they have mistreated many of the crews from AIR UK. The VNV and KLM policy to rid the company of this group of very professional pilot and cabin crew because of there nationalities is an absolute disgrace.
Lets hope they get there just deserve.

[F4F]

somewhere else...

Most wannabees would fly for next to nothing just to get the wheel started. I observed plenty of them lately, some having had to wait up to 5 years (at great expense) before landing their first job.
As a young F/O, the next step is the full ATPL. Buiding hours and experience you then start looking elsewhere, realizing that your airline pays peanuts (the very reason they employed you in the first place!). Moving to a better place, bigger/better craft and racking hours, soon in a position to move LHS. You will then either upgrade in the present company with some bond scheme or still earning peanuts, or move some place else.
Once positionned on the cosy port seat, you again start collecting hours, thereby conforting your position.
Then, and only then, will you have the luxury to relax and watch the grass grow and go for the most attractive one ;)

I don't really observe any "pilot shortage" in the good (well paying, looking after their flight crew, future oriented, etc) airlines, but a "pilot demand" in the smaller and less attractive outfits.

Thing is also, that in the recession a lot of elderly pilots have had to take their hat into retirement, leaving a void that has not be filled yet. Associated to market expansion, it has created in the last 2 years a demand wave that is now slowly diminishing.

Well, all in all, just a contant evolution of the market :cool:

[TAP]

I dont know many people who retired at 60........

I believe the wave is going to continue for a while! Just looking at the recent employment drive from Flybe, Ryan etc The need for pilots and yes inexperienced pilots is still out there!

Of course, they still want to pay peanuts! :=

A friend of mine who works in the recruitment side of life told me that the recruiters have 100's CV's on their desk and some are dumb enough not to realise that the low hour pilot sent that CV to every other airline out there! Thus giving the recruiter a fake of how many pilots there actually are out there! The second they pick up the phone to ask a few for interview they have been snapped up by someone else.... brings a tear to my eye.:D

[Amin]

Interesting article,

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...,3146572.story (http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-0702040344feb04,0,3146572.story)

[Headinclouds]

Happy Days, between even 5% truth in this article and the Backlog of Orders on every Commercial Production Line.....things look good.

[MercenaryAli]

I heard there is a small caribbean outfit with two Shorts needing short term contract captains. The pay is not great but the weather is outstanding, the airplanes are in good shape and everyone is very friendly. You can find them on http://www.tiara-air.com/ if that is any use to anyone?:)