East coast route to Stansted

[NorthSouth]

I see NATS now recommends an upper air route between EGPH and Stansted which goes SAB-NEW-OTR-DOLAS-EGSS. Seems a bit odd that they recommend a route which climbs through OTA-Charlie (full of F3s doing air combat), and descends through uncontrolled airspace heavily used by F-15s et al for nearly 50 miles over East Anglia.

Does anyone actually fly this route? Is it some sort of special deal between Easyjet and Scot Mil/London Mil?

NS

[Lookatthesky]

I would imagine that given the route you specify, NATS will have an agreement with the Mil to 'use' this airspace at specific times. Where did you get the info and does it tell of any specifics?

[NorthSouth]

It's in the Standard Routes Document.

NS

[Kestrel_909]

Sorry to disappoint but any easyJet I see takes the more usual DCS UN615 CALDA route.

Just had a look at the SRD and thought your route might have had some notes regarding times it can be used, but there is zilch :S Not to say there aren't agreed times, but that I can't find them in the SRD.

[eyeinthesky]

'Quiet hours' only. The mil are still in bed/the bar when the civvies may use it.

[London Mil]

eyeinthesky, who do you think will be controlling the aircraft between OTR and the TMA boundary? Sure as eggs are eggs, it won't be Sector 10/MACC.

[Ppdude]

This would make things around the OTBED area a little more interesting. Lots more crossing traffic in an already busy point?

[tired-flyboy]

Its been a while but when i was at ScATCC(Mil) we regularly used to control civiy a/c routing PD to New direct over OTA 'C'.

They got a RAS and we got a headache trying to keep 'them safe' + it wasn't an upper air route either!!!!

Also used to control someone going Stav - New alwyas used to be fun with the FCs.

But Kestrel_909 is correct, most of the easy's go the CALDA route, only the occasional one is seen coming through UMBAG --> ABBOT, but they are more than likely coming off the north sea.

[eyeinthesky]

London Mil:

I meant: "the Mil jet jockeys will still be in bed/the bar". Not you hardworking guys on Console 15 of course!:ok:

[London Mil]

More like 15 through to 11 by the looks of things.:hmm:

[Jebel Ali]

Its planned to be used before 0830/0900 when the mil start to play and its not planned for London Mil to work the traffic.

[NorthSouth]

its not planned for London Mil to work the trafficInteresting. Who do they go to after they've left Scottish then?
NS

[PPRuNe Radar]

Even more interesting to see how they get through the new Class C TRAs to access or leave the Upper Air Routes structure, with the maximum of a RIS being offered as a service (by civil).

[London Mil]

I suspect it will be TRA or CDR, not both together.

[PPRuNe Radar]

Can't speak for the Southern end but there is no published ATS route between the Scottish TMA and SAB below FL195 (at all times it is Class G) and no Class C Airway either above FL195. So Mon-Fri after 0830UTC (Winter) till 1700UTC it's in the TRA above FL195. If the Mil request the TRA prior to 0830 or after 1700, then it's in the TRA.

Between SAB and NEW below FL195 there is no published route and no Class C Airway again. See above.

Outwith those, it's Class C above FL195 with DCT routeings the only permitted 'route' and above FL245 they can rejoin the published route network and its protections.

''Easyjet 123 cleared to join Controlled Airspace on track SAB climbing FL240, it will be Flight Information Service on passing FL195, suggest you keep a good lookout as there are multiple autonomous military aircraft operating on your track. Good luck :) ''

[NorthSouth]

"Good morning ladies and gentlemen and welcome aboard this easyjet flight to stansted. Just to let you know that anyone wanting a cup of coffee will have to wait until we're above FL245 just in case we have to do a max rate turn to avoid interception by a Tornado"
NS

[NorthSouth]

Interestingly this route has been withdrawn from the latest edition of the SRD. Someone listening?
NS

[whowhenwhy]

I remember this conversation from a previous job as it's all part of the EGSS/EGGW airspace re-design that NATS are trying to push through. From what I remember of when they first mooted this idea they were told 'yes, crack on. As long as it's first thing in the morning and you don't ask the military to work it!' :ugh:

I rather hope for my erstwhile colleagues like Diddly Dee and London Mil that you've not been dropped in the poop fellas.

[Jebel Ali]

My understanding is that it will ONLY be used before 0830 and it will only be used for ALKIN/LORELs from ScTMA - aim being to remove this traffic from Sector 29, Sector 3/7 and TC Midlands & North WEST for the first southbound rotation only. Tay/Montrose Sectors will transfer traffic to MACC/LACC who in turn transfer it (probably) to TC. After 0830 return to military use.

[MancBoy]

Don't forget the DTY sectors between LAKES and MIDLANDS

[London Mil]

One presumes the Americans wil no longer populate ARA8, the EAMTRA and Lakenheath ATA before 0830 local then :hmm:

Oh, and I hope the wonderjet boys at Coningsby don't fancy an eary start to get the magic 5 waves a day.

[PPRuNe Radar]

It's lucky the Talla sector at Scottish is really quiet too with the first rotation inbound from the South ...... :rolleyes:

If the traffic using the route is not up and out of that airspace by 0715 Local then there's a good chance of flow regulation due to complexity and crossing the main flow of inbounds. The flow regulation will hit the arrival rotation also of course, not just those who are going against the flow (bad pun).

For the benefit of the few, the majority might suffer.

Sounds like NATS management actually ;)